From arizonakeith at cox.net  Mon Feb  1 02:24:09 2010
From: arizonakeith at cox.net (Arizona Keith)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 00:24:09 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Photos, Updated and split
Message-ID: <37AF9B090F9A41DE84A35194D1C7A29E@Keith2>

Hello List

I split up the photos and added a few new.

Slide show link for "Arizona Meteorite Exhibition"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46923697 at N06/sets/72157623200215031/show/

Regular Link
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46923697 at N06/sets/72157623200215031/

Here the link for the rest of the Tucson Show, less the AZ exhibit above
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46923697 at N06/sets/72157623154261599/
New photos are mixed in.

Enjoy

Keith V
Chandler Az.



From info at meteorites.com.au  Mon Feb  1 02:39:31 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:39:31 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Historic meteorite scale cube?
In-Reply-To: <11fe7.732debf.389776a9@aol.com>
References: <11fe7.732debf.389776a9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <DDB860AAD9664DB89EEA28CD180C47EA@JeffPC>

Thanks Tom! ;-)

Actually Tom showed me these wooden cubes last week and I mentioned he 
should sell some as I'm sure there are many collectors who would love to use 
them. I personally think they would look really good with 18th and 19th 
century specimens with old museum labels.

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 11:13 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Historic meteorite scale cube?


> Hi list,  Indulge me on this  one.   I still have scale cube envy over
> ordering my cube from Jeff a  few seconds too late to get the lowest 
> number!
> His are the best I have  seen and I am not trying to better those perfect
> cubes.  I treasure my #14  cube!
>
> That said, It is snowing up here in Idaho and there is not much to  do.  I
> made some old looking wood scale cubes to go with historic  falls. 
> Perhaps
> it is a dumb idea but I put one on eBay at $1 to see if  there is any 
> demand.
>
>
> Check it out at
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260546460569&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
>
> Thanks  for looking.
>
> Tom Phillips     STARSINTHEDIRT
>
>
> Please let me know what you think
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From giovannisostero at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 07:36:37 2010
From: giovannisostero at gmail.com (Giovanni Sostero)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:36:37 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Energy dispersive X-ray spectroscopy for meteorite
	analysis?
Message-ID: <958e59e51002010436n5eec4288hb11cdbd2dea39194@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
I'm on the learning phase with the SM/EDS technique, and I'm
interested to apply this methodology for (possibly) meteorite
classification purposes.
If anyone is willing to help/collaborate with me about this topic,
please contact me offlist.
Thank you in advance,
Giovanni Sostero (Italy)


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Mon Feb  1 09:20:21 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 06:20:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 1,
	2010
Message-ID: <502692706.537691265034021040.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_1_2010.html



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 11:06:00 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:06:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Attention Micromount Collectors & Low-Budget
	Collectors (plus another charity auction!)
Message-ID: <e51421551002010806r7c4d027eof96e2cc0a3fc5a5e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Listoids, Collectors, and Fellow Sufferers of Meteoritis,

It is my goal to offer low-cost micromount specimens of over 100 finds
and falls.  Currently, I have 50 different falls and finds in my
micromount inventory, and most of them are only $5 each.  Some of the
rarest falls and types can cost $7, but the majority are $5 (over 36
of them).

So what kind of specimen do you get for $5 ?

It depends on the rarity of the fall or type involved.  Some common
types, like NWA ordinary chondrites, will weigh upwards to 1 full
gram, maybe a little more.  The specimen can be in the form of a part
slice, endcut, fragment, or several smaller pieces put together -
again, it depends on how rare that particular specimen is, and how
much of it that I have in stock.  As a general rule of thumb, for most
$5 micromounts, you will get a nicely-sized piece that shows the
lithology of the type and is substantial enough to handle, examine, or
break off a piece to trade.

So what kind of "rare" specimen do I get for $7?

Well, again, it depends on the specific fall/type and my supply of
that specimen.  Obviously, you aren't going to get a big lunar or
martian for $7.  For rare falls and planetaries, your specimen will be
weighed in milligrams and not grams.  It will be bigger than a "Bessey
speck", but it won't be as big as the common $5 micros.   In most
cases, with the rare ones, you'll get a crumb that is big enough to
identify, handle and examine - but just don't drop it in the carpet.

All micromounts, regardless of type, come with a quality 1.25" gemjar
(the bigger jars) - the good kind with tight fitting lids that don't
need tape to stay closed.  A paper label identifying the name, type,
country of origin, and date of find/fall is included inside the jar,
under the foam, facing out from the bottom.  Just flip the gemjar over
to read the label.  I prefer this method of labelling because you can
easily re-use the gemjar without having to clean off adhesive residue
from sticky labels or permanent marker writing.  Just remove the paper
label and you can use the gemjar for any of your specimens.

A note about my micromount photos - on my website, for most
micromounts, you will see a photo of a big pile of fragments or crumbs
next to a scale cube.  This is my supply of that particular meteorite,
and your micromount will be selected from it.  You will get the
biggest/nicest piece remaining from the lot shown, with the first
customers getting the best pieces and the last customers getting the
dwindling remnants.  If you would like to see exactly what your
specimen will look like - contact me and ask.  I will prepare your
specimen, photograph it, and email the photo to you.  Then you can
decide if you want it.  I use this system so I don't have to prepare,
photograph and store many hundreds of micromounts at the same time -
it's too laborious and confusing.

A note about my sources - I purchase the majority of material (about
90% of it) from Meteoritical Society members and IMCA members.  Many
of my sources are List members who are now reading this.  I don't buy
material from unknown or dubious sources.  I don't do business with
any traders with spotty reputations - I won't mention names, but we
all know the types of people I am talking about.  If I wouldn't put a
specimen into my personal collection cabinet for keeps, then I
wouldn't offer it to anyone else either.  You can be confident in the
integrity and authenticity of your specimen.  If something turns out
to be wrong later, then I will issue a full refund that includes all
shipping.  (It's never happened yet)  If the specimen is a rare fall
or type (or if the buyer requests it for any specimen), I will include
a copy of the original specimen card from the source dealer - so you
can know exactly where I bought the specimen and you can maintain the
provenance of your purchase.

Lastly, regardless of how many or how few micros you purchase from me,
you will get freebie bonus items.  Even if you purchase just one $5
micromount - you will get an extra freebie micromount!  Each and every
order, without exception, gets free bonus items - what I include as
bonus will vary and depends on what I have in stock.  Currently, I
just received several new shipments of material, so I am sitting on
lots of good specimens in healthy quantities - so I will be very
generous with the selection of freebies.  You may be quite surprised
by what is included for free.  I do this because a couple of dealers
did it for me when I first starting out as a new collector - it was
great fun and it made a positive impression on me.  It made me feel
appreciated as a customer and collector.

I want every collector, regardless of their budget, to have the
pleasure of sampling rare falls and exotic petrologic types.  You
don't have to dodge bid snipers and get lucky on eBay - I will always
have the micromounts you want.  I update my store website every day -
so if you see the specimen in stock, then it's really there.  I won't
email you back and say "oh, I'm sorry but that one is already sold."

If you use PayPal, then you can buy and checkout directly from the
website without waiting or exchanging emails - my website has a
built-in shopping cart and PayPal checkout.  You can purchase your
specimens instantly.

Ok, so what micromounts do I have in stock now?  Here is a list of
what I have that is available for immediate purchase :
http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/Micromounts_126576/?page1

USA FALLS and FINDS -

Canyon Diablo - Arizona - iron
Gold Basin - Arizona - L4 chondrite
Hassayampa - Arizona - H4 chondrite
Holbrook - Arizona - L/LL6 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer fall
Claxton - Georgia - L6 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer stone
Park Forest - Illinois - L5 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer fall
Norton - Kansas - aubrite, witnessed fall
Dawn(a) - Texas - H6 chondrite
Dimmitt - Texas - H3.7 chondrite
Forestburg(a) - Texas - L4 chondrite
Travis(a) - Texas - H5 chondrite
Tulia(a) - Texas - H3-4 chondrite
Tulia(b) - Texas - L6 chondrite

Morocco and NWA's -

Al-Haggounia - EL3 chondrite (listed in MB as aubrite, but it's
actually an EL chondrite)
Tamdakht - H5 chondrite, witnessed fall
Zag - H3-6 chondrite, witnessed fall.
NWA 515 - L6 chondrite
NWA 869 - L4-6 chondrite
NWA 906 - H3.8 chondrite
NWA 998 - Martian nakhlite
NWA 1877 - olivine diogenite (HEDO)
NWA 2126 - eucrite (HEDO)
NWA 2828 - EL chondrite (listed in MB as aubrite, but it's actually an
EL chondrite)
NWA 2778 - H4 chondrite
NWA 3117 - howardite (HEDO)
NWA 3140 - ureilite
NWA 4300 - H5 chondrite
NWA 4734 - Lunar achondrite
NWA 4857 - Martian shergottite (provisional)
NWA 5054 - L5 chondrite

Other Named Finds and Falls from Around the World -

Bassikounou - H5 chondrite, witnessed fall
Bilanga - diogenite, witnessed fall
Camel Donga - eucrite (HEDO)
Campo del Cielo - iron
Carancas - H4-5 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer fall, crater-maker
Chergach - H5 chondrite, witnessed fall
Gao Guenie - H5 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer fall
Ghubara - L5 chondrite
Henbury - iron
Imilac - pallasite
Jiddat al Harasis 020 - L6 chondrite
Murchison - carbonaceous chondrite CM2, witnessed fall, hammer fall
Muonionalusta - iron
Nantan - iron
Oum Dreyga - H3-5 chondrite, witnessed fall
Pallasovka - pallasite
SAU 001 - L5 chondrite
Sulagiri - LL6 chondrite, witnessed fall
Tatahouine - diogenite, witnessed fall, (HEDO)
Vaca Muerta - mesosiderite
Zagami - Martian shergottite, witnessed fall

I also have a full line of Riker box displays available for purchase.
These displays feature many of the above falls and rare types.  Some
have exclusive color artwork and/or photos.  You can see those here -
http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/Riker-Box-Displays_220464/?page1

Also - don't forget, as a List Member (this means you!), you get a
permanent 25% discount off all prices on my website.  (minimum order
$10)  To get the discount, use the coupon code "metlist" at checkout.
If you use this coupon and take into account the bonus freebies, you
are paying well below $5 per micromount. :)

Don't want to take the time or trouble to amass a collection of
micromounts piecemeal?  Then I can offer you a full kit of 28
different micromounts that includes 20 different types -
http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/220464/Meteorite-Collection--28-Different-Labelled-Specimens-in-a-Display_1217392.html

Last, but certainly not least, I am running weekly auctions on eBay to
benefit charity.  I do not keep a single penny - all proceeds go to
charity.  This week's auction benefits the Challenger Center for Space
Science Education.  They do great work with kids, so bid generously -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290396749556

So far this year, my bidders have raised over $100 for charity - l'd
like to see that number swell into the thousands, so let's start
bidding!

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me at
mike at galactic-stone.com or meteoritemike at gmail.com

Thanks for looking and happy huntings!

MikeG


From scyphocrinites at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 16:26:19 2010
From: scyphocrinites at yahoo.com (Malek Youssef)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:26:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad : fresh Eucrite
Message-ID: <751606.52249.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi all
I ve got a small fresh Eucrite . if interested please feel free to contact me offlist.
regards
M.Youssef


      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 16:33:06 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:33:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dark Angel Falling
Message-ID: <695853.65048.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

Why were the films "Deep Impact" and "Armagedon" made? They were not imspired by the impact of Comet Shoemaker Levy 9 with Jupiter.

It appears that after "Titanic", James Cameron was going to make "Dark Angel Falling", but "Titanic" went over in time, and "Dark Angel Falling" was cancelled. Its competitors "Deep Impact" and "Armagedon" did make it to the screen.

By the way, Obama/Boldne/ Garver have propossed $16 million more per year for the NASA NEO detection budget. As $20 million per year is still $30 million per year short of the NRC middle option, we'll have to see what the NSF pitches in.

The announcment of a new Jupiter/Direct initiative is expected tomorrow.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From geoking at notkin.net  Mon Feb  1 18:05:44 2010
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:05:44 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Announcing Two New Meteorite Discoveries
Message-ID: <4F508E84-4045-49E4-A0A3-6E1A01BC45F4@notkin.net>

Dear Listees:

I am very pleased to announce two significant new meteorite finds.  
Both were classified by our colleague Dr. Jeffrey Grossman. The names  
have been approved and are now included in the online Meteoritical  
Bulletin database:

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php


The first is Coffeyville. The 79-lb mass was found near Coffeyville,  
Kansas in 2006. It is an H5 with a black matrix and a very interesting  
and attractive interior. Steve Arnold and I are the exclusive  
distributors for this new Kansas meteorite. We have full slices and a  
large end cut on display in Room 230 at the InnSuites:

http://www.aerolite.org/specials/coffeyville.htm


The second is La Cienega, an H6 from Sonora, Mexico. A 6.4-kg  
regmaglypted stone was found in 2007 by an American gold prospector,  
and purchased by Aerolite Meteorites. Following a thorough search of  
the area, a smaller individual was found along with several small  
fragments. We have slices from the smaller mass for sale in our  
showroom, and the main mass is on display there as well. La Cienega is  
a beautiful black chondrite, rich in metal flakes:


If you are interested in viewing or purchasing either of these new  
discoveries, please stop by and see Anne Black and myself in Suite  
230. Open all day, every day, until February 13.

Details:  http://www.aerolite.org/events/tucson/tucson-meteorite-dealer.htm

Our sincere thanks to Dr. Grossman for his kind assistance in  
classifying these new finds.

And, if you're in town for the gem show, please join Steve Arnold and  
myself, this Wednesday at Sky Bar Tucson, at a free screening party  
for the world premiere of "Meteorite Men" Episode Three: "The Tucson  
Ring Mystery." Kinda nice timing that our Tucson episode is airing  
right in the middle of the gem show! (We didn't plan it that way,  
really. Just lucky I guess).

http://meteoritemen.com/events/meteorite-men-premiere.htm



With best wishes to all,

Geoff N.

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com
http://science.discovery.com/tv/meteorite-men/






From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 19:00:39 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:00:39 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted - Small wood cigar boxes for
	meteorite-related project
Message-ID: <e51421551002011600u1e624ebbmfd2d5d6adcce7f7d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Listees!

I need some small wooden cigar boxes like the type shown in the linked
photo below.  These are the small trial-sized boxes that typically
hold 3 to 5 cigars.  These little boxes fit perfectly into the drawers
of my collection cabinet.  I line the boxes with batting and put many
of my specimens into them.  I could use several more of these boxes
and I don't want to give myself premature lung cancer just to get more
boxes.   There are some cigar connoisseurs on this List, so I was
hoping that maybe a fellow list member would have some of these boxes
laying around that I can have or purchase cheaply.  I will pay for the
shipping charges - several of these would fit into a priority flat
rate box.

See this photo for the type of box I need -
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/cigar-box-1.jpg

I don't need any larger boxes.

Best regards and thanks in advance!

MikeG


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Mon Feb  1 19:26:21 2010
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:26:21 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Jason Chadwick
In-Reply-To: <581855.59314.qm@web114004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <581855.59314.qm@web114004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W162426FB3460F949F7C087A2570@phx.gbl>


Does anyone know Jason Chadwick or is he a figment of MC's imagination? He claims to be an old personal customer, meteorite buyer, of Dr. Nininger.

 

> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 17:47:43 -0800
> From: jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Largest Auction Run Yet* Plus Sales All Week* Super Specials* A Lot More Coming....
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am forwarding this for Michael Cottingham:
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Are you sad your not going to the Tucson show? Well I loaded a special auction run for everyone who has to stay home! Also, I am and will be having all kinds of specials this week and I have over 200 more items to load up over the next week! Please keep checking back....
> 
> 
> 
> Check them out.... some great deals...
> 
> SEE ALL AUCTIONS AT ONCE!
> http://shop.ebay.com:80/meteorite-collector/m.html?LH_Auction=1&_trksid=p3911.c0.m301
> 
> SEE ALL ITEMS ON SALE IN MY STORE!
> http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history
> 
> 
> 
> There are also many reduced BIG Specimens... Last chance on some of these before I decide to cut them up.
> 
> The following are special prices for ONLY those who get this email. ONE WEEK OFFER AT THESE PRICES! Contact me if you are interested. Also, if there is something in my store that is not on the list and your curious if I am going to reduce it.... please ask.
> 
> $15,000.00 This week Only.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200432512052
> 
> $8,000.00 This week Only.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200433332013
> 
> $1000.00 This week Only.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190345575378
> 
> $900.00 This week Only.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190345575378
> 
> $5750.00. This week Only.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200391143266
> 
> $10,000.00. This week Only.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190368543872
> 
> $5,000.00 This week Only.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200390127230
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks and Best Wishes
> 
> Michael Cottingham
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/

From darryl at dof3.com  Mon Feb  1 19:30:04 2010
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:30:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dark Angel Falling
In-Reply-To: <695853.65048.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <695853.65048.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55C5103F-A114-43D2-8CA8-A89DC1010C82@dof3.com>



I take especial delight in answering the question below.

While these and perhaps similar projects were already in development,  
Gene Shoemaker informed me that it was the extraordinary amount of  
media accorded the meteorite section of the first natural history  
auctions in '95 and '96 that tipped one of the projects into high  
gear---which then tipped the other into high gear as well (I forget  
which was which).  Jerry Bruckheimer, the producer of Armageddon,  
intimated the same thing "meteorites suddenly became hot" (and he  
purchased some Gibeons from me for select cast members).  Gene was a  
consultant for at least one of the films and died in a car accident  
before either was released.

For the first natural history auction, I recommended that Wayne Rosso  
be hired as the publicist.  I knew Wayne as the publicist for Crosby,  
Stills, Nash and Young and Wayne pulled out the stops. There were a  
dozen different television crews in attendance at the first auction-- 
which is to say nothing of the print journalists present--and the high  
prices of meteorites made the international media...and fell onto  
Hollywood's radar.  Ironically, Wayne later became the CEO of Grokster  
and one of the most hated men in Hollywood.


All best / d,





On Feb 1, 2010, at 4:33 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote:

> Hi all -
>
> Why were the films "Deep Impact" and "Armagedon" made? They were not  
> imspired by the impact of Comet Shoemaker Levy 9 with Jupiter.
>
> It appears that after "Titanic", James Cameron was going to make  
> "Dark Angel Falling", but "Titanic" went over in time, and "Dark  
> Angel Falling" was cancelled. Its competitors "Deep Impact" and  
> "Armagedon" did make it to the screen.
>
> By the way, Obama/Boldne/ Garver have propossed $16 million more per  
> year for the NASA NEO detection budget. As $20 million per year is  
> still $30 million per year short of the NRC middle option, we'll  
> have to see what the NSF pitches in.
>
> The announcment of a new Jupiter/Direct initiative is expected  
> tomorrow.
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From deanbessey at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 20:01:18 2010
From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:01:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: MARS at $295 A gram
In-Reply-To: <55C5103F-A114-43D2-8CA8-A89DC1010C82@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <605465.74485.qm@web56102.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I was planning on holding on to these for some time but I have a project on the go that requires money so am selling off my Mars stock. Over 20 grams available
$295 a gram Uncut and $325 for cut (Cut slightly higher to help cover my cutting loss). In particular there are two really nice complete slices  
http://www.meteoriteshop.com/mars-sale.html
Sincerely
DEAN
http://www.meteoriteshop.com/mars-sale.html


      



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 20:20:53 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:20:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dark Angel Falling
In-Reply-To: <55C5103F-A114-43D2-8CA8-A89DC1010C82@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <78335.67856.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Darryl -

I have this great idea for a reality tv show, and with those connections perhaps you could pitch it for me.  The show features two meteorite hunters and their quest for meteorites, with their hunts taking them to different places. 

The show has a one hour format, and my idea is to cut in some footage of a couple of female meteoriticists every so often just to make sure some folks don't switch the channel. 

Think it might work?

:p)
E.P.



--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:

> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dark Angel Falling
> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:30 PM
> 
> 
> I take especial delight in answering the question below.
> 
> While these and perhaps similar projects were already in
> development, Gene Shoemaker informed me that it was the
> extraordinary amount of media accorded the meteorite section
> of the first natural history auctions in '95 and '96 that
> tipped one of the projects into high gear---which then
> tipped the other into high gear as well (I forget which was
> which).? Jerry Bruckheimer, the producer of Armageddon,
> intimated the same thing "meteorites suddenly became hot"
> (and he purchased some Gibeons from me for select cast
> members).? Gene was a consultant for at least one of
> the films and died in a car accident before either was
> released.
> 
> For the first natural history auction, I recommended that
> Wayne Rosso be hired as the publicist.? I knew Wayne as
> the publicist for Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young and Wayne
> pulled out the stops. There were a dozen different
> television crews in attendance at the first auction--which
> is to say nothing of the print journalists present--and the
> high prices of meteorites made the international media...and
> fell onto Hollywood's radar.? Ironically, Wayne later
> became the CEO of Grokster and one of the most hated men in
> Hollywood.
> 
> 
> All best / d,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 1, 2010, at 4:33 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote:
> 
> > Hi all -
> > 
> > Why were the films "Deep Impact" and "Armagedon" made?
> They were not imspired by the impact of Comet Shoemaker Levy
> 9 with Jupiter.
> > 
> > It appears that after "Titanic", James Cameron was
> going to make "Dark Angel Falling", but "Titanic" went over
> in time, and "Dark Angel Falling" was cancelled. Its
> competitors "Deep Impact" and "Armagedon" did make it to the
> screen.
> > 
> > By the way, Obama/Boldne/ Garver have propossed $16
> million more per year for the NASA NEO detection budget. As
> $20 million per year is still $30 million per year short of
> the NRC middle option, we'll have to see what the NSF
> pitches in.
> > 
> > The announcment of a new Jupiter/Direct initiative is
> expected tomorrow.
> > 
> > E.P. Grondine
> > Man and Impact in the Americas
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 


      


From waltbranch at bellsouth.net  Mon Feb  1 20:55:33 2010
From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:55:33 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: MARS at $295 A gram
References: <605465.74485.qm@web56102.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003701caa3aa$cefceb10$0302a8c0@yourf78bf48ce2>

Hi Dean,

I am missing something?

Neither your email nor website indicate which NWA Martian this is.  Which 
one is it?

-Walter Branch
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dean bessey" <deanbessey at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:01 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: MARS at $295 A gram


>I was planning on holding on to these for some time but I have a project on 
>the go that requires money so am selling off my Mars stock. Over 20 grams 
>available
> $295 a gram Uncut and $325 for cut (Cut slightly higher to help cover my 
> cutting loss). In particular there are two really nice complete slices
> http://www.meteoriteshop.com/mars-sale.html
> Sincerely
> DEAN
> http://www.meteoriteshop.com/mars-sale.html
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From dave at fallingrocks.com  Mon Feb  1 21:26:53 2010
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:26:53 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Copies of Foote's 1912 Holbrook monograph
Message-ID: <181EE429B0594E548CAC4EEDBB0192EE@meteorroom>

All,
My friend Sean Murray was kind enough to produce the file from which copies
of the Holbrook monograph were printed and distributed, on a complimentary
basis, along with the Whetstone Mountain limited edition monographs.  The WM
monograph was modeled after Foote's work, and the copies were included for
free and for comparative purposes only.  I have a few extra copies from the
production run and would be happy to send single copies to anyone on the met
list for just the price of shipping while they last -- so long as they won't
be marketed for sale.  Let me know off list...
Best,
Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 



From darryl at dof3.com  Mon Feb  1 21:37:27 2010
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:37:27 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd:  Dark Angel Falling / addendum
References: <55C5103F-A114-43D2-8CA8-A89DC1010C82@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <2D92C105-2229-421C-B1CA-7714F68A3FCD@dof3.com>



Hi Again....

I've received several private emails inquiring about the timeline of  
the making of Hollywood films and the "disasteroid" films (a term  
which Larry Lebofsky recently introduced me to) of the 90s in  
particular.

I know so little about either topic, however....

SL9 was a trigger for the development of these films.  I don't know  
any specifics of the preproduction arc of either of these projects--- 
for example, prior to SL9 something similarly themed may have already  
been in development or turnaround---but SL9 certainly put things into  
motion, if not having started things up outright.  The media's  
fascination (and resulting pop cultural appeal) of the novelty of  
meteorites being sold at auction was only a catalyst to making  
"disasteroids" more of a priority....it tipped them into a higher gear.

Best / dp



Begin forwarded message:

> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> Date: February 1, 2010 7:30:04 PM EST
> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dark Angel Falling
>
>
>
> I take especial delight in answering the question below.
>
> While these and perhaps similar projects were already in  
> development, Gene Shoemaker informed me that it was the  
> extraordinary amount of media accorded the meteorite section of the  
> first natural history auctions in '95 and '96 that tipped one of the  
> projects into high gear---which then tipped the other into high gear  
> as well (I forget which was which).  Jerry Bruckheimer, the producer  
> of Armageddon, intimated the same thing "meteorites suddenly became  
> hot" (and he purchased some Gibeons from me for select cast  
> members).  Gene was a consultant for at least one of the films and  
> died in a car accident before either was released.
>
> For the first natural history auction, I recommended that Wayne  
> Rosso be hired as the publicist.  I knew Wayne as the publicist for  
> Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young and Wayne pulled out the stops. There  
> were a dozen different television crews in attendance at the first  
> auction--which is to say nothing of the print journalists present-- 
> and the high prices of meteorites made the international media...and  
> fell onto Hollywood's radar.  Ironically, Wayne later became the CEO  
> of Grokster and one of the most hated men in Hollywood.
>
>
> All best / d,
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 1, 2010, at 4:33 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote:
>
>> Hi all -
>>
>> Why were the films "Deep Impact" and "Armagedon" made? They were  
>> not imspired by the impact of Comet Shoemaker Levy 9 with Jupiter.
>>
>> It appears that after "Titanic", James Cameron was going to make  
>> "Dark Angel Falling", but "Titanic" went over in time, and "Dark  
>> Angel Falling" was cancelled. Its competitors "Deep Impact" and  
>> "Armagedon" did make it to the screen.
>>
>> By the way, Obama/Boldne/ Garver have propossed $16 million more  
>> per year for the NASA NEO detection budget. As $20 million per year  
>> is still $30 million per year short of the NRC middle option, we'll  
>> have to see what the NSF pitches in.
>>
>> The announcment of a new Jupiter/Direct initiative is expected  
>> tomorrow.
>>
>> E.P. Grondine
>> Man and Impact in the Americas
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From photophlow at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 22:49:38 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:49:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Deep Inside Mars"
Message-ID: <338568.53102.qm@web113605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello Listers,
?
I came across this artical on Mars.
?
"NASA's Opportunity rover has discovered a peculiar rock on Mars that scientists think originated deep within the red planet. The stone could reveal new secrets about the makeup of Mars' interior."
?
Click on the link to read the artical
?
http://www.space.com/news/mars-rock-opportunity-rover-100125.html
?
Shawn Alan


From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 23:03:36 2010
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:03:36 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona Meteorite Exhibition - Video
Message-ID: <80659e1a1002012003o69a7016by1c3a7deb73a1a3c9@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Here is a very short video (about 2 minutes) of the first annual
Arizona Meteorite Exhibition - unwittingly narrated by Dante Lauretta.
Better watch it soon before Youtube either pulls it or sues me for
using the music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fFgx0aGVOo



-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From freequarks at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 23:50:57 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:50:57 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Rocks from Space book by O. R. Norton
Message-ID: <822da19a1002012050x748c8228p86c98beefcae06d7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I have a few copies of second ed. of Rock from Space (paperback) left
if anyone is interested. Each copy is $30 plus $5 shipping in the US
(overseas is more). Paypal is fine.

Neither Amazon.com nor Borders has the book in stock, and you all know
the value is only going up. Plus, my price is less than retail.

Email me off list if interested. First come, first served.

Best,

Martin


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 01:19:54 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:19:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space book by O. R. Norton
Message-ID: <203567.79157.qm@web113607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello Listerites,
?
Tonight after work I was able to pick up a reserved copy of Rocks from Space at Barnes & Noble in Union Square in NYC. I read over 40 pages so far tonight and looked through the chapters in the?book and I have to?say?it is a must have book for everyone. Here is a link to Barnes & Noble and the last time I checked, which was 10 minutes ago, the location I got the book from still has copies and?one other?location in the city has copies as well.
?
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/store.asp?EAN=9780878423736&distance=2&zipcode=10001&x=23&y=16
?
Shawn Alan


From arizonakeith at cox.net  Tue Feb  2 02:40:30 2010
From: arizonakeith at cox.net (Arizona Keith)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 00:40:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Photos
Message-ID: <DCFD7B0989A840798257FB2131D43993@Keith2>

Hello List

Added a few more photos and a mother of a Fukang slice.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonaviking/sets/72157623154261599/

Enjoy, it for all of you who can come.

Keith



From steve.dunklee at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 03:43:08 2010
From: steve.dunklee at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 00:43:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dark Angel Falling
In-Reply-To: <78335.67856.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <71159.55787.qm@web113910.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I'm waiting to see the program Meteorite watch lol! Kind of like Baywatch but set in the dessert. Hot sun, sand and sweaty bikini clad searchers. who wouldn't watch? and for the ladies strapping young guys with 6pack Ab's. throw in spiders, snakes, scorpions . dehydration ,stuck vehicles, terrorists, inadvertent border crossings into Iran, and restrictive regulations of some country's. add minerals and other artifacts for the Indiana Jones types. might work lol.

cheers
Steve

--- On Tue, 2/2/10, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dark Angel Falling
> To: "Darryl Pitt" <darryl at dof3.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 1:20 AM
> Hi Darryl -
> 
> I have this great idea for a reality tv show, and with
> those connections perhaps you could pitch it for me.?
> The show features two meteorite hunters and their quest for
> meteorites, with their hunts taking them to different
> places. 
> 
> The show has a one hour format, and my idea is to cut in
> some footage of a couple of female meteoriticists every so
> often just to make sure some folks don't switch the channel.
> 
> 
> Think it might work?
> 
> :p)
> E.P.
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dark Angel Falling
> > To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:30 PM
> > 
> > 
> > I take especial delight in answering the question
> below.
> > 
> > While these and perhaps similar projects were already
> in
> > development, Gene Shoemaker informed me that it was
> the
> > extraordinary amount of media accorded the meteorite
> section
> > of the first natural history auctions in '95 and '96
> that
> > tipped one of the projects into high gear---which
> then
> > tipped the other into high gear as well (I forget
> which was
> > which).? Jerry Bruckheimer, the producer of
> Armageddon,
> > intimated the same thing "meteorites suddenly became
> hot"
> > (and he purchased some Gibeons from me for select
> cast
> > members).? Gene was a consultant for at least one of
> > the films and died in a car accident before either
> was
> > released.
> > 
> > For the first natural history auction, I recommended
> that
> > Wayne Rosso be hired as the publicist.? I knew Wayne
> as
> > the publicist for Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young and
> Wayne
> > pulled out the stops. There were a dozen different
> > television crews in attendance at the first
> auction--which
> > is to say nothing of the print journalists
> present--and the
> > high prices of meteorites made the international
> media...and
> > fell onto Hollywood's radar.? Ironically, Wayne
> later
> > became the CEO of Grokster and one of the most hated
> men in
> > Hollywood.
> > 
> > 
> > All best / d,
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Feb 1, 2010, at 4:33 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi all -
> > > 
> > > Why were the films "Deep Impact" and "Armagedon"
> made?
> > They were not imspired by the impact of Comet
> Shoemaker Levy
> > 9 with Jupiter.
> > > 
> > > It appears that after "Titanic", James Cameron
> was
> > going to make "Dark Angel Falling", but "Titanic" went
> over
> > in time, and "Dark Angel Falling" was cancelled. Its
> > competitors "Deep Impact" and "Armagedon" did make it
> to the
> > screen.
> > > 
> > > By the way, Obama/Boldne/ Garver have propossed
> $16
> > million more per year for the NASA NEO detection
> budget. As
> > $20 million per year is still $30 million per year
> short of
> > the NRC middle option, we'll have to see what the NSF
> > pitches in.
> > > 
> > > The announcment of a new Jupiter/Direct
> initiative is
> > expected tomorrow.
> > > 
> > > E.P. Grondine
> > > Man and Impact in the Americas
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From marcin at meteoryt.net  Tue Feb  2 05:03:00 2010
From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:03:00 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Delgerzogt, fall from Mongolia
References: <71159.55787.qm@web113910.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CFFD6F88181408BAC2CC46813AF36FB@polandmezrd5i9>

Hello
Anyone have any informations about this meteorite ? Becouse I see its not 
official and not published in Met.Bulletin.

-----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
http://www.Meteoryty.pl             marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin(at)polandmet.com
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com      GSM: +48 (793) 567667
--------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]--------



From faustoguilherme at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 05:47:13 2010
From: faustoguilherme at gmail.com (Habib Gupta)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:47:13 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Test
Message-ID: <4B6802B1.1040804@gmail.com>

Test, please delete


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Tue Feb  2 08:29:34 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 05:29:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 2,
	2010
Message-ID: <794439707.718201265117374587.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_2_2010.html



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Tue Feb  2 10:05:19 2010
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:05:19 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	2, 2010
Message-ID: <COL108-W4040BB06FE7506C88ABE029B570@phx.gbl>



The lady is obviously demanding a Meteorite Men spin off for next year. Meteorite Woman :D

Carl

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/

From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Tue Feb  2 11:06:33 2010
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:06:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
 2, 2010
Message-ID: <18672059.1265126793454.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

To the "Tucson Wild Bunch",

>From the photos recently posted there must be more than a few folks going "heavy" at the show. That's cool with me as there is a lot of value laying around in those hotel rooms and I am an NRA Certified Instructor in Armed Personal Protection, Fire Arm Safety, Refuse to be a Victim and Pistol classifications.

Now, the lecture. (Anne Black, for one will like this.) I trust that semi-auto being pointed at two of my favorite   

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
>Sent: Feb 2, 2010 8:29 AM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 2,	2010
>
>http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_2_2010.html
>
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From minador at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 11:31:36 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:31:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	2, 2010
In-Reply-To: <18672059.1265126793454.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <18672059.1265126793454.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <499531.21872.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

>>countdeiro wrote:
>>?"I trust that semi-auto being pointed at two of my favorite? "

I think he forgot to finish the sentence, so here's my stab at it....

"??? meteorite people is not just "unloaded", but that it is a prop.?" 

Safety first everyone (always treat a firearm like it's loaded)!? Enjoying the fun photos in the Wild West.? ;-)

Mark B.
Vail, AZ



----- Original Message ----
From: "countdeiro at earthlink.net" <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
To: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 9:06:33 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 2, 2010

To the "Tucson Wild Bunch",

>From the photos recently posted there must be more than a few folks going "heavy" at the show. That's cool with me as there is a lot of value laying around in those hotel rooms and I am an NRA Certified Instructor in Armed Personal Protection, Fire Arm Safety, Refuse to be a Victim and Pistol classifications.

Now, the lecture. (Anne Black, for one will like this.) I trust that semi-auto being pointed at two of my favorite? 

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
>Sent: Feb 2, 2010 8:29 AM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 2,??? 2010
>
>http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_2_2010.html
>
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Tue Feb  2 11:57:05 2010
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:57:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
 2, 2010
Message-ID: <28423800.1265129825244.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

To the "Tucson Wild Bunch",

>From the photos recently posted there must be more than a few folks going "heavy" at the show. That's cool with me as there is a lot of value laying around in those hotel rooms and I am an NRA Certified Instructor in Armed Personal Protection, Fire Arm Safety, Refuse to be a Victim and Pistol classifications. What was shown in this photo took me aback.

Now, the lecture. (Anne Black, for one will like this.) I trust that the semi-auto pistol being pointed, with finger on the trigger, at two of my favorite meteor guys is a phony...because if it wasn't ...the young lady should be chastised and somebody should have known better. 

I've noticed in the past week there have been several photos of "pistoleros" at the Tucson show brandishing firearms posted to the List. Notably the pics of the semi-auto assault rifles at the Inn Suites. These photos give cannon fodder to those who would like to take your second amendment rights away and ban the civilian ownership of all firearms. They also scare the geese.

Obtain your firearms legally. Store, handle and use them safely. Sell, trade or dispose of them responsibly. Make a point of educating others, especially young people, to accept the presence and legitimate use of firearms by your own personal example. (This was a lost opportunity.)

Those of us who possess a firearm for self-defense should know and be prepared to follow these recognized use of lethal force protocols:

1. Are you, or a person in your presence, threatened with imminent death, or great bodily harm? (The use of lethal force to protect property, especially meteorites, is not condoned in most jurisdictions.)
2. Can you clearly see and identify the source of the threat? (Firing though a door is likely to off a husband coming home late.)
3. Is the potential assailant capable of carrying out the threat? (Don't shoot an 80 year old grandma in a wheel chair wielding a baseball bat.)
4. If the answer to all the above is in the affirmative then it is reccommended by most authorities to defensively fire two shots to the center of mass and look for a desired result. (It's not a good idea to say that you will, or did "shoot to kill".)

I am not a lawyer and these statements are not to be considered legal advice. They were obtained from what I believe are reliable sources, but are not guaranteed, or implied, to be used as a defense in any manner involving the use of a firearm.

On to Tucson! 

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
>Sent: Feb 2, 2010 8:29 AM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 2,	2010
>
>http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_2_2010.html
>
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From mikewren at gilanet.com  Mon Feb  1 21:32:20 2010
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:32:20 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Copies of Foote's 1912 Holbrook monograph
In-Reply-To: <181EE429B0594E548CAC4EEDBB0192EE@meteorroom>
References: <181EE429B0594E548CAC4EEDBB0192EE@meteorroom>
Message-ID: <EBB98D6C-CA9C-4CA4-B7DC-690932687A64@gilanet.com>

Hello,

Good, I was going to suggest you do this...

Best Wishes

Michael
On Feb 1, 2010, at 7:26 PM, Dave Gheesling wrote:

> All,
> My friend Sean Murray was kind enough to produce the file from which  
> copies
> of the Holbrook monograph were printed and distributed, on a  
> complimentary
> basis, along with the Whetstone Mountain limited edition  
> monographs.  The WM
> monograph was modeled after Foote's work, and the copies were  
> included for
> free and for comparative purposes only.  I have a few extra copies  
> from the
> production run and would be happy to send single copies to anyone on  
> the met
> list for just the price of shipping while they last -- so long as  
> they won't
> be marketed for sale.  Let me know off list...
> Best,
> Dave Gheesling
> IMCA #5967
> www.fallingrocks.com
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Feb  2 11:57:19 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suspected Asteroid Collision Leaves Trailing Debris
Message-ID: <201002021657.o12GvJLq022539@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



Feb. 02, 2010

J.D. Harrington 
Headquarters, Washington      
202-358-5241 
j.d.harrington at nasa.gov 

Ray Villard 
Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore 
410-338-4514 
villard at stsci.edu 

RELEASE: 10-029

SUSPECTED ASTEROID COLLISION LEAVES TRAILING DEBRIS

WASHINGTON -- NASA's Hubble Space Telescope has observed a mysterious 
X-shaped debris pattern and trailing streamers of dust that suggest a 
head-on collision between two asteroids. Astronomers have long 
thought the asteroid belt is being ground down through collisions, 
but such a smashup has never been seen before. 

Asteroid collisions are energetic, with an average impact speed of 
more than 11,000 miles per hour, or five times faster than a rifle 
bullet. The comet-like object imaged by Hubble, called P/2010 A2, was 
first discovered by the Lincoln Near-Earth Asteroid Research, or 
LINEAR, program sky survey on Jan. 6. New Hubble images taken on Jan. 
25 and 29 show a complex X-pattern of filamentary structures near the 
nucleus. 

"This is quite different from the smooth dust envelopes of normal 
comets," said principal investigator David Jewitt of the University 
of California at Los Angeles. "The filaments are made of dust and 
gravel, presumably recently thrown out of the nucleus. Some are swept 
back by radiation pressure from sunlight to create straight dust 
streaks. Embedded in the filaments are co-moving blobs of dust that 
likely originated from tiny unseen parent bodies." 

Hubble shows the main nucleus of P/2010 A2 lies outside its own halo 
of dust. This has never been seen before in a comet-like object. The 
nucleus is estimated to be 460 feet in diameter. 

Normal comets fall into the inner regions of the solar system from icy 
reservoirs in the Kuiper belt and Oort cloud. As comets near the sun 
and warm up, ice near the surface vaporizes and ejects material from 
the solid comet nucleus via jets. But P/2010 A2 may have a different 
origin. It orbits in the warm, inner regions of the asteroid belt 
where its nearest neighbors are dry rocky bodies lacking volatile 
materials. 

This leaves open the possibility that the complex debris tail is the 
result of an impact between two bodies, rather than ice simply 
melting from a parent body. 

"If this interpretation is correct, two small and previously unknown 
asteroids recently collided, creating a shower of debris that is 
being swept back into a tail from the collision site by the pressure 
of sunlight," Jewitt said. 

The main nucleus of P/2010 A2 would be the surviving remnant of this 
so-called hypervelocity collision. 

"The filamentary appearance of P/2010 A2 is different from anything 
seen in Hubble images of normal comets, consistent with the action of 
a different process," Jewitt said. An impact origin also would be 
consistent with the absence of gas in spectra recorded using 
ground-based telescopes. 

The asteroid belt contains abundant evidence of ancient collisions 
that have shattered precursor bodies into fragments. The orbit of 
P/2010 A2 is consistent with membership in the Flora asteroid family, 
produced by collisional shattering more than 100 million years ago. 
One fragment of that ancient smashup may have struck Earth 65 million 
years ago, triggering a mass extinction that wiped out the dinosaurs. 
But, until now, no such asteroid-asteroid collision has been caught 
"in the act." 

At the time of the Hubble observations, the object was approximately 
180 million miles from the sun and 90 million miles from Earth. The 
Hubble images were recorded with the new Wide Field Camera 3 (WFC3), 
which is capable of detecting house-sized fragments at the distance 
of the asteroid belt. 

For Hubble images and more information, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/hubble 
	
-end-



From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Tue Feb  2 12:16:37 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:16:37 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	2, 2010
In-Reply-To: <28423800.1265129825244.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <28423800.1265129825244.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000701caa42b$7b243580$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Life would be somewhat easier, if people could agree to use spoons to defend
themselves or to kill eachother.

The imagination to be in Tucson, where a Chicago-Steve is allowed to wear a
gun and to enter my room to shoot his beloved holes in the Campos, isn't a
directly comfort one....

Martin

(Germany: >80 million people -> 269 murders with firearms in 2002
 USA      300 million        -> 9,369  ....  )

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
countdeiro at earthlink.net
Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Februar 2010 17:57
An: Michael Johnson; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
2, 2010

To the "Tucson Wild Bunch",

>From the photos recently posted there must be more than a few folks going
"heavy" at the show. That's cool with me as there is a lot of value laying
around in those hotel rooms and I am an NRA Certified Instructor in Armed
Personal Protection, Fire Arm Safety, Refuse to be a Victim and Pistol
classifications. What was shown in this photo took me aback.

Now, the lecture. (Anne Black, for one will like this.) I trust that the
semi-auto pistol being pointed, with finger on the trigger, at two of my
favorite meteor guys is a phony...because if it wasn't ...the young lady
should be chastised and somebody should have known better. 

I've noticed in the past week there have been several photos of "pistoleros"
at the Tucson show brandishing firearms posted to the List. Notably the pics
of the semi-auto assault rifles at the Inn Suites. These photos give cannon
fodder to those who would like to take your second amendment rights away and
ban the civilian ownership of all firearms. They also scare the geese.

Obtain your firearms legally. Store, handle and use them safely. Sell, trade
or dispose of them responsibly. Make a point of educating others, especially
young people, to accept the presence and legitimate use of firearms by your
own personal example. (This was a lost opportunity.)

Those of us who possess a firearm for self-defense should know and be
prepared to follow these recognized use of lethal force protocols:

1. Are you, or a person in your presence, threatened with imminent death, or
great bodily harm? (The use of lethal force to protect property, especially
meteorites, is not condoned in most jurisdictions.)
2. Can you clearly see and identify the source of the threat? (Firing though
a door is likely to off a husband coming home late.)
3. Is the potential assailant capable of carrying out the threat? (Don't
shoot an 80 year old grandma in a wheel chair wielding a baseball bat.)
4. If the answer to all the above is in the affirmative then it is
reccommended by most authorities to defensively fire two shots to the center
of mass and look for a desired result. (It's not a good idea to say that you
will, or did "shoot to kill".)

I am not a lawyer and these statements are not to be considered legal
advice. They were obtained from what I believe are reliable sources, but are
not guaranteed, or implied, to be used as a defense in any manner involving
the use of a firearm.

On to Tucson! 

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
>Sent: Feb 2, 2010 8:29 AM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 2,
2010
>
>http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_2_2010.html
>
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 12:23:11 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:23:11 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	2, 2010
In-Reply-To: <28423800.1265129825244.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <28423800.1265129825244.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <e51421551002020923k508b3563x3771afa4bda0fd47@mail.gmail.com>

HI Count and List,

I agree.  Reckless tomfoolery with a firearm is not funny.  (assuming
the weapon is real)

Also, as crazy as it sounds to some Americans, firearms are killing
tools.  Many of our European friends and overseas friends do not share
our morbid fascination with guns.  It probably makes some of them
nervous, and we should (as gracious hosts) be more considerate of our
guests.

Keep the firearms for the range, the hunt, and the cabinet, and out of
the meteorite show.

Best regards,

MikeG


On 2/2/10, countdeiro at earthlink.net <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:
> To the "Tucson Wild Bunch",
>
> >From the photos recently posted there must be more than a few folks going
> "heavy" at the show. That's cool with me as there is a lot of value laying
> around in those hotel rooms and I am an NRA Certified Instructor in Armed
> Personal Protection, Fire Arm Safety, Refuse to be a Victim and Pistol
> classifications. What was shown in this photo took me aback.
>
> Now, the lecture. (Anne Black, for one will like this.) I trust that the
> semi-auto pistol being pointed, with finger on the trigger, at two of my
> favorite meteor guys is a phony...because if it wasn't ...the young lady
> should be chastised and somebody should have known better.
>
> I've noticed in the past week there have been several photos of "pistoleros"
> at the Tucson show brandishing firearms posted to the List. Notably the pics
> of the semi-auto assault rifles at the Inn Suites. These photos give cannon
> fodder to those who would like to take your second amendment rights away and
> ban the civilian ownership of all firearms. They also scare the geese.
>
> Obtain your firearms legally. Store, handle and use them safely. Sell, trade
> or dispose of them responsibly. Make a point of educating others, especially
> young people, to accept the presence and legitimate use of firearms by your
> own personal example. (This was a lost opportunity.)
>
> Those of us who possess a firearm for self-defense should know and be
> prepared to follow these recognized use of lethal force protocols:
>
> 1. Are you, or a person in your presence, threatened with imminent death, or
> great bodily harm? (The use of lethal force to protect property, especially
> meteorites, is not condoned in most jurisdictions.)
> 2. Can you clearly see and identify the source of the threat? (Firing though
> a door is likely to off a husband coming home late.)
> 3. Is the potential assailant capable of carrying out the threat? (Don't
> shoot an 80 year old grandma in a wheel chair wielding a baseball bat.)
> 4. If the answer to all the above is in the affirmative then it is
> reccommended by most authorities to defensively fire two shots to the center
> of mass and look for a desired result. (It's not a good idea to say that you
> will, or did "shoot to kill".)
>
> I am not a lawyer and these statements are not to be considered legal
> advice. They were obtained from what I believe are reliable sources, but are
> not guaranteed, or implied, to be used as a defense in any manner involving
> the use of a firearm.
>
> On to Tucson!
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
>>Sent: Feb 2, 2010 8:29 AM
>>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
>> 2,	2010
>>
>>http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_2_2010.html
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 12:32:00 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:32:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] new reality tv show
Message-ID: <14404.70522.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Steve - 

The way I have it figured, we're going to need wardrobe, hair-stylists, and make up just to make the guys presentable. A good editor just to keep the family rating and not piss off the FCC with the langauge, and someone to make their converstions intelligible to laymen. 

Quite a crew, in other words. The other variant is simpler and less costly, and has two or more teams videoing themselves as they race to a fall, and then editing their footage together, and splitting any money earned.

:P)

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

PS - No picture of a Native American with a bow and arrow holding up Darryl at Tucson? Or say with a scalping knife?

Skull bashers are so much more elegant than firearms. And quieter and less messy as well. Much more precise, and no permit needed.

>I'm waiting to see the program Meteorite watch lol! Kind of like Baywatch but set in the dessert. Hot sun, sand and sweaty bikini clad searchers. who wouldn't watch? and for the ladies strapping young guys with 6pack Ab's. throw in spiders, snakes, scorpions . dehydration ,stuck vehicles, terrorists, inadvertent border crossings into Iran, and restrictive regulations of some country's. add minerals and other artifacts for the Indiana Jones types. might work lol.

cheers
Steve


      


From faustoguilherme at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 12:36:32 2010
From: faustoguilherme at gmail.com (Habib Gupta)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:36:32 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Weiyuan, the chinese mesosiderite
Message-ID: <4B6862A0.2050900@gmail.com>

Hello!

Please have a look at the only photo I know of Weiyan here,
http://meteorite-art.com/museum%20et%20collections%20ideal/page_01.htm
http://meteorite-art.com/museum%20et%20collections%20ideal/photos%20exposition%20et%20musee%20%20a%20%20%20ajouter/Weiyuan%20%20%20mesosiderite%20%20chine%20found%201978.jpg
and please tell me how is it possible this melted look?

This is an oficial meteorite
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=weiyuan&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&valids=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&rect=&phot=&snew=0&pnt=Normal%20table&code=24233
Is it just my ignorance or this looks like a bunch of slag?

TIA

Saludos!

Sanscelerien



From freequarks at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 12:37:09 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:37:09 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	2, 2010
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002020923k508b3563x3771afa4bda0fd47@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28423800.1265129825244.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<e51421551002020923k508b3563x3771afa4bda0fd47@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a1002020937l59d8efe4ra09b20e861235807@mail.gmail.com>

Looks at Geoff's eyes and Blaine's left hand. I'm sure a split second
after the picture was taken, Miss Meteorite Hunter was wondering where
her pistol went why her head hurts so bad.

On the other hand, if Blaine is trying exchange his life for an NWA,
well then good luck Blaine. Nice knowing ya.

-M


From gsac at gmx.net  Tue Feb  2 13:10:45 2010
From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:10:45 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
 February	2, 2010
In-Reply-To: <000701caa42b$7b243580$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
References: <28423800.1265129825244.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<000701caa42b$7b243580$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <20100202181045.311800@gmx.net>

Just by the way, and it may seem quite a bit off-topic for some of you, but I can?t help to just comment on Martin?s remark here: I totally agree with him in this case, I am absolutely with him. Well, it?s not just plain off-topic, folks, since photos mediated through this very forum were actually showing cheers of joy for weapons and pointing these at others or all around, and I?m nothing but just commenting on this and please don?t get me wrong at this point: I very much RESPECT the special American way of looking at that kind of thing, I well know it has a profound cultural background, and I realize you have quite a liberal attitude towards guns and weapons, and at the same time I won?t talk about other different cultural aspects in degrees of freedom and liberalism, as the list rules won?t allow this, because this is a list about meteorites! But then again let me allow to just send this very humble short comment from my end of the line here, on the actual topic.

Well, sorry for this short interference, guys and gals. The other thing I?d like to say is: have fun in Tucson! And please make tons of pics available to us Europeans, who unfortunately can?t travel to the very place! :-)

Alex
Berlin/Germany
   

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:16:37 +0100
> Von: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
> An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February	2, 2010

> Life would be somewhat easier, if people could agree to use spoons to
> defend
> themselves or to kill eachother.
> 
> The imagination to be in Tucson, where a Chicago-Steve is allowed to wear
> a
> gun and to enter my room to shoot his beloved holes in the Campos, isn't a
> directly comfort one....
> 
> Martin
> 
> (Germany: >80 million people -> 269 murders with firearms in 2002
>  USA      300 million        -> 9,369  ....  )
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
> countdeiro at earthlink.net
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Februar 2010 17:57
> An: Michael Johnson; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
> February
> 2, 2010
> 
> To the "Tucson Wild Bunch",
> 
> >>From the photos recently posted there must be more than a few folks
> going
> "heavy" at the show. That's cool with me as there is a lot of value laying
> around in those hotel rooms and I am an NRA Certified Instructor in Armed
> Personal Protection, Fire Arm Safety, Refuse to be a Victim and Pistol
> classifications. What was shown in this photo took me aback.
> 
> Now, the lecture. (Anne Black, for one will like this.) I trust that the
> semi-auto pistol being pointed, with finger on the trigger, at two of my
> favorite meteor guys is a phony...because if it wasn't ...the young lady
> should be chastised and somebody should have known better. 
> 
> I've noticed in the past week there have been several photos of
> "pistoleros"
> at the Tucson show brandishing firearms posted to the List. Notably the
> pics
> of the semi-auto assault rifles at the Inn Suites. These photos give
> cannon
> fodder to those who would like to take your second amendment rights away
> and
> ban the civilian ownership of all firearms. They also scare the geese.
> 
> Obtain your firearms legally. Store, handle and use them safely. Sell,
> trade
> or dispose of them responsibly. Make a point of educating others,
> especially
> young people, to accept the presence and legitimate use of firearms by
> your
> own personal example. (This was a lost opportunity.)
> 
> Those of us who possess a firearm for self-defense should know and be
> prepared to follow these recognized use of lethal force protocols:
> 
> 1. Are you, or a person in your presence, threatened with imminent death,
> or
> great bodily harm? (The use of lethal force to protect property,
> especially
> meteorites, is not condoned in most jurisdictions.)
> 2. Can you clearly see and identify the source of the threat? (Firing
> though
> a door is likely to off a husband coming home late.)
> 3. Is the potential assailant capable of carrying out the threat? (Don't
> shoot an 80 year old grandma in a wheel chair wielding a baseball bat.)
> 4. If the answer to all the above is in the affirmative then it is
> reccommended by most authorities to defensively fire two shots to the
> center
> of mass and look for a desired result. (It's not a good idea to say that
> you
> will, or did "shoot to kill".)
> 
> I am not a lawyer and these statements are not to be considered legal
> advice. They were obtained from what I believe are reliable sources, but
> are
> not guaranteed, or implied, to be used as a defense in any manner
> involving
> the use of a firearm.
> 
> On to Tucson! 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
> >Sent: Feb 2, 2010 8:29 AM
> >To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
> 2,
> 2010
> >
> >http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_2_2010.html
> >
> >______________________________________________
> >Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >Meteorite-list mailing list
> >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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From cynapse at charter.net  Tue Feb  2 13:27:01 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:27:01 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suspected Asteroid Collision Leaves Trailing
	Debris
In-Reply-To: <201002021657.o12GvJLq022539@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <201002021657.o12GvJLq022539@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <qfrgm59dtnhb04gf7vjiuts9n65jjm9bek@4ax.com>

One commentary on this:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/02/hubble-captures-picture-of-asteroid-collision/


From geohiggins at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 13:37:40 2010
From: geohiggins at yahoo.com (John higgins)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:37:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: AD- .99 Meteorite Auctions ending tonight and
	tomorrow night! Free Shipping
Message-ID: <429579.57609.qm@web63201.mail.re1.yahoo.com>



http://stores.ebay.com/Outer-Space-Rocks

FREE SHIPPING 

ENDING TODAY:
Unclassified Meteorite
GRUVER
MALOTAS 
NWA 869 
NORTHBRANCH
NWA 2778
NWA 2779
NWA 2126 Eucrite!

ENDING TOMORROW:
NWA 869
NWA 3118 CV3!
NWA 515
NWA 4473 Diogenite!
FORESTBURG
TAMDAKHT
NWA 3154 H3.9!
NWA 3117 Howardite!

Thank You,
Have a Great Day!
John Higgins IMCA# 9822


      


From anitawestlake at att.net  Tue Feb  2 14:44:33 2010
From: anitawestlake at att.net (Anita Westlake)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:44:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suspected Asteroid Collision Leaves Trailing
	Debris
Message-ID: <249183.27857.qm@web83802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Yea! More micros coming soon to a planet near you!
Anita 

--- On Tue, 2/2/10, Ron Baalke <baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:


From: Ron Baalke <baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suspected Asteroid Collision Leaves Trailing Debris
To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 11:57 AM




Feb. 02, 2010

J.D. Harrington 
Headquarters, Washington? ? ? 
202-358-5241 
j.d.harrington at nasa.gov 

Ray Villard 
Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore 
410-338-4514 
villard at stsci.edu 

RELEASE: 10-029

SUSPECTED ASTEROID COLLISION LEAVES TRAILING DEBRIS

WASHINGTON -- NASA's Hubble Space Telescope has observed a mysterious 
X-shaped debris pattern and trailing streamers of dust that suggest a 
head-on collision between two asteroids. Astronomers have long 
thought the asteroid belt is being ground down through collisions, 
but such a smashup has never been seen before. 

Asteroid collisions are energetic, with an average impact speed of 
more than 11,000 miles per hour, or five times faster than a rifle 
bullet. The comet-like object imaged by Hubble, called P/2010 A2, was 
first discovered by the Lincoln Near-Earth Asteroid Research, or 
LINEAR, program sky survey on Jan. 6. New Hubble images taken on Jan. 
25 and 29 show a complex X-pattern of filamentary structures near the 
nucleus. 

"This is quite different from the smooth dust envelopes of normal 
comets," said principal investigator David Jewitt of the University 
of California at Los Angeles. "The filaments are made of dust and 
gravel, presumably recently thrown out of the nucleus. Some are swept 
back by radiation pressure from sunlight to create straight dust 
streaks. Embedded in the filaments are co-moving blobs of dust that 
likely originated from tiny unseen parent bodies." 

Hubble shows the main nucleus of P/2010 A2 lies outside its own halo 
of dust. This has never been seen before in a comet-like object. The 
nucleus is estimated to be 460 feet in diameter. 

Normal comets fall into the inner regions of the solar system from icy 
reservoirs in the Kuiper belt and Oort cloud. As comets near the sun 
and warm up, ice near the surface vaporizes and ejects material from 
the solid comet nucleus via jets. But P/2010 A2 may have a different 
origin. It orbits in the warm, inner regions of the asteroid belt 
where its nearest neighbors are dry rocky bodies lacking volatile 
materials. 

This leaves open the possibility that the complex debris tail is the 
result of an impact between two bodies, rather than ice simply 
melting from a parent body. 

"If this interpretation is correct, two small and previously unknown 
asteroids recently collided, creating a shower of debris that is 
being swept back into a tail from the collision site by the pressure 
of sunlight," Jewitt said. 

The main nucleus of P/2010 A2 would be the surviving remnant of this 
so-called hypervelocity collision. 

"The filamentary appearance of P/2010 A2 is different from anything 
seen in Hubble images of normal comets, consistent with the action of 
a different process," Jewitt said. An impact origin also would be 
consistent with the absence of gas in spectra recorded using 
ground-based telescopes. 

The asteroid belt contains abundant evidence of ancient collisions 
that have shattered precursor bodies into fragments. The orbit of 
P/2010 A2 is consistent with membership in the Flora asteroid family, 
produced by collisional shattering more than 100 million years ago. 
One fragment of that ancient smashup may have struck Earth 65 million 
years ago, triggering a mass extinction that wiped out the dinosaurs. 
But, until now, no such asteroid-asteroid collision has been caught 
"in the act." 

At the time of the Hubble observations, the object was approximately 
180 million miles from the sun and 90 million miles from Earth. The 
Hubble images were recorded with the new Wide Field Camera 3 (WFC3), 
which is capable of detecting house-sized fragments at the distance 
of the asteroid belt. 

For Hubble images and more information, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/hubble 
??? 
-end-

______________________________________________
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From meteorites at online.nl  Tue Feb  2 17:23:35 2010
From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 23:23:35 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Zagami...too cheap, Gao (oriented)
Message-ID: <7590BFBE3DA44B87A87E8266258BE323@laptop>

Listoids,

While others are stuck between all these nasty meteorites in Tucson and we 
are the lucky ones who can stay at home I still have a 5,22 Zagami Martian 
slice for sale.
Because I need cash rather quick It will be offered to list members for 
$1750 plus 25 for shipping which is a true bargain. Where will you ever find 
it cheaper.
It's on Ebay right now but as a list member I'll offer it only this week for 
much less.

Also a 134 super oriented Gao is still here. The best you will find in 
years. Only this week for $600 plus 25 for shipping.

Request for pics off line pls.

Greets,
Jan
Holland.
IMCA 9833 



From jlatchford at cox.net  Tue Feb  2 17:55:03 2010
From: jlatchford at cox.net (Julie Latchford)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:55:03 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Photos
In-Reply-To: <DF118B7F0914464D9BB61E951913351E@Keith2>
Message-ID: <9463FF80E6244BD0B4D7E804412646A2@latchford>

Hi All  I am having trouble w/ my e-mail. Sorry.  I would like to thank
everyone for the info on going to Tucson.  I am going to be in Tucson
Thrusday & Friday & hope to go to the birthday party on Saturday.  I
hope to meet you all. I have a " stone " I think may be a tektite. would
anyone in Tucson look @ it for me? I would take a pix of it & post it,
but well I don't know how to :) thank you Julie 

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
Arizona Keith
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 12:09 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Photos

Hello List 

I added a few more photos taken today and yesterday.
There not in order anymore.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46923697 at N06/sets/72157623154261599/

Enjoy

Keith V
Chandler AZ

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From jlatchford at cox.net  Tue Feb  2 18:02:43 2010
From: jlatchford at cox.net (Julie Latchford)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:02:43 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	February2, 2010
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W4040BB06FE7506C88ABE029B570@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E64AD5E1BB6E4BFE87951D38306798A9@latchford>


I wish I could get meteorite men on tv. 
-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Carl
's
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:05 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
February2, 2010



The lady is obviously demanding a Meteorite Men spin off for next year.
Meteorite Woman :D

Carl

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/
______________________________________________
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From valparint at aol.com  Tue Feb  2 18:19:28 2010
From: valparint at aol.com (valparint at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:19:28 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Weiyuan, the chinese mesosiderite
Message-ID: <574B154CB3F246568D027DC84404F012@vpoffsiteweb.local>

It's a Dr. Seuss meteorite. Green crystals and taen (ite).

>Please have a look at the only photo I know of Weiyan here,
>http://meteorite-art.com/museum%20et%20collections%20ideal/page_01.htm
>
>Is it just my ignorance or this looks like a bunch of slag?
>
>TIA
>
>Saludos!
>
>Sanscelerien


Paul Swartz


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 18:21:58 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:21:58 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Weiyuan, the chinese mesosiderite
In-Reply-To: <574B154CB3F246568D027DC84404F012@vpoffsiteweb.local>
References: <574B154CB3F246568D027DC84404F012@vpoffsiteweb.local>
Message-ID: <e51421551002021521i1653c5b3j66780092027b35e7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Paul,

It's not just you.  If I was a gambling man, I'd say that is not a meteorite.

Best regards,

MikeG


On 2/2/10, valparint at aol.com <valparint at aol.com> wrote:
> It's a Dr. Seuss meteorite. Green crystals and taen (ite).
>
>>Please have a look at the only photo I know of Weiyan here,
>>http://meteorite-art.com/museum%20et%20collections%20ideal/page_01.htm
>>
>>Is it just my ignorance or this looks like a bunch of slag?
>>
>>TIA
>>
>>Saludos!
>>
>>Sanscelerien
>
>
> Paul Swartz
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From deanbessey at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 18:45:02 2010
From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:45:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Museums Keeping meteorites dry
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002021521i1653c5b3j66780092027b35e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <323958.50206.qm@web56103.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I am advising an institution here in New Zealand who is planning to put together a world class meteorite collection for public display. They already have a dozen or so meteorites on display (Mostly donated by dealers like Haag who has a "thank you" next to the specimens already there) but they are going to put together what will surely be New Zealands greatest meteorite collection when complete.
The question is what should they be displayed in and what type of climate control is necessary.
New Zealand dont get overly hot or cold so temperature will not be an issue but Kiwis go to London for a nice dry vacation where it doesnt rain all that much. It seems to rain all the time here and humidity is often very high.
I have some ideas but please let me know what you think would be best and what meteorite types in particular need special climate control.
They are putting the display together before acquiring the specimens so want to get it right from the start.
Any advice or ideas that would help keep this public meteorite display from crumbling in the high humidity would be greatly appreciated
Sincerely
DEAN


      



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Tue Feb  2 19:30:52 2010
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:30:52 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] RE; More on the Lorton
Message-ID: <COL108-W3342B95D5F2F55DAE391B99B560@phx.gbl>


Hi,

Just a thought I had the last week or so. Has anyone given the thought of obtaining the vacuum cleaner bag used to clean the offices? It still might not be too late and with the doctors permission, of course. Judging from the photos, there may be little micros that may have been overlooked and vacuumed. A dusty search but with a face mask, gloves and a strong magnet, who knows?

Carl
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 20:51:02 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 20:51:02 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] RE; More on the Lorton
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W3342B95D5F2F55DAE391B99B560@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W3342B95D5F2F55DAE391B99B560@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e51421551002021751n65f046cfr42e3c52f0e4d03b8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Carl,

That's actually a very good idea, but the bags are probably tossed
already - or the canister was emptied already.  Or maybe not......

Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG



On 2/2/10, Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Just a thought I had the last week or so. Has anyone given the thought of
> obtaining the vacuum cleaner bag used to clean the offices? It still might
> not be too late and with the doctors permission, of course. Judging from the
> photos, there may be little micros that may have been overlooked and
> vacuumed. A dusty search but with a face mask, gloves and a strong magnet,
> who knows?
>
> Carl
>  		 	   		
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Tue Feb  2 22:34:37 2010
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:34:37 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Lorton meteorite in a vacuum cleaner
Message-ID: <COL108-W1AEE4C3AB9D36A74C98409B560@phx.gbl>


Hey Mike. Depends on how full the vacuum bags are originally. May take weeks before they need replacing. For the price of a new bag, the doctors just might let you have the old ones. Raises the level of meteorite hunting, doesn't it? Anyone out in Virginia that might want to try it?

Carl


> Hi Carl,
>
> That's actually a very good idea, but the bags are probably tossed
> already - or the canister was emptied already. Or maybe not......
>
> Best regards and clear skies,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
> On 2/2/10, Carl 's  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just a thought I had the last week or so. Has anyone given the thought of
>> obtaining the vacuum cleaner bag used to clean the offices? It still might
>> not be too late and with the doctors permission, of course. Judging from the
>> photos, there may be little micros that may have been overlooked and
>> vacuumed. A dusty search but with a face mask, gloves and a strong magnet,
>> who knows?
>>
>> Carl

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/

From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr  Wed Feb  3 01:44:04 2010
From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pel=E9_Pierre-Marie?=)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:44:04 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] National History Museum in Paris presents a new
	meteorite, "Paris"
Message-ID: <423192.7312.qm@web23008.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Translation : http://translate.google.fr/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.francesoir.fr%2Fsociete%2F2010%2F02%2F02%2Fastronomie-meteorite-trou-noir.html&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8


      



From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk  Wed Feb  3 04:19:52 2010
From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:19:52 -0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
Message-ID: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF885@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>

Dear Listees

I have been a member of this list now for less than a year. In that time I have seen some almighty stushies (Scots word meaning rumpus or row) and debates as well as a mountain of information and the forging of some great new friendships.

However the recent postings on guns and arms has seriously depressed and angered me, and if anything has come close to forcing me off the list, it is this. I never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing correspondence with "hicks" and "rednecks" or NRA sycophants and apologists.

Anne (Black) I salute you. Your simple, straightforward words are my only comfort. :-(

Peter Davidson
Curator of Minerals
?
National Museums Collection Centre
National Museums Scotland
242 West Granton Road
Edinburgh
EH5 1JA
Phone: +44?131 247 4283
p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
www.nms.ac.uk
?
?

Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker

National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.


From dave at fallingrocks.com  Wed Feb  3 07:49:36 2010
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 07:49:36 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] =?utf-8?q?=5BAD=5D_Announcing_Two_New_Lunar_Mete?=
	=?utf-8?q?orites_and_a_New_Bencubbinite=E2=80=8F?=
Message-ID: <9C2B0F73230A42B2B43C5630E9425EA4@meteorroom>

I'M POSTING THIS FOR LUC, WHO IS HAVING TROUBLE DOING SO FROM HIS WEB INTERFACE IN TUCSON:

Hello everyone,

I am announcing to the list two new lunar meteorites and a Bencubbinite launched for the 2010 Tucson show.

 

I discovered the Shi?r 166, my 10th piece of the Moon in Oman, a 128.8g lunar feldspathic impact-melt breccias in April 2008. The circumstances of finding are quite funny because I find it in the desert at night using my head lamp around the camp. The Led head lamp offer a very good contrast at night so this is a possibility for everyone to extend the time of hunting in place with high potential of finding in white flat desert area like Oman. So, times to times a meteorite is just waiting you at night! Hunting during the night, we do that since most than 10 years now, is very exciting and it?s most of the time the best thing to do in the desert at night with thousands of stars and sometimes the Moon inspiring you. Don?t forget, to keep few hours to sleep?

 

Anyway, here is a video take mainly by my brother few minutes after I pick up the lunar. Sorry for the poor quality video but we used a small camera in our car. Again sorry, we speak French in this video but you can easily understand the excitation when I used sand paper on this stone and discovered the typical breccias of a lunar? 

 

http://www.meteorites.tv/content/108-new-lunar-meteorite-classified-by-Randy-Korotev

 

Just few pieces available, less than 10g are for sale, the main mass was acquired by a Museum for public display.

http://www.meteorites.tv/444-lunar-meteorite-shisr-166

 

Here is the end cut with photos and a nice 360? display if you have flash enabled

http://www.meteorites.tv/233-lunar-meteorite-shisr-166.html

 

I found the Dhofar 1528, a 213g stone, in a ?sub-normal? circumstance, not a night!, and after a full day with no meteorite in Oman which is quite exceptional. This lunar was just waiting me since long time in the desert, a nice lunar classified Anorthosite (highland) breccias that contains a wide variety of lithologies

 

The end cut and some slices are available, smaller slices are available at the InnSuite:

http://www.meteorites.tv/457-dhofar-1528-lunar-meteorite

 

To finish my best surprise of 2010! The Minera Escondida (name pending) a new 

This 598g meteorite was found during a trip in Chile on Imilac with my brother in 2004. From the exterior and the ?skin? so typical of iron from Chile, I supposed first it was a silicated iron meteorite. 

 

So, since 2004, I used this meteorite as a nice meteorite paperweight, because the particular shape round and flat. I tried to sold this iron at the Sainte Marie aux Mines show in France in June 2009 as an unclassified iron. It was not sold, so I decided to remove a sample for classification in September 2009. and discover the real nature of it?a new bencubbinite? 

 

This CB was found near the famous Minera Escondida one of the largest mine for copper. 

 

I have full and part slices and a small end cut for sale in Room 118 at the InnSuites (Now Tucson City Center Hotel):

http://www.meteorites.tv/la-escondida-bencubbinite/267-minera-escondida-name-pending-bencubbinite.html

http://www.meteorites.tv/458-la-escondida-bencubbinite


With best wishes to all,
 
Luc Labenne

 

Labenne Meteorites

Meteorites for Science, Education & Collectors

http://www.meteorites.tv 

labennemeteorites at hotmail.com

luclabenne at meteorites.tv


Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 



From majbaermann at web.de  Wed Feb  3 08:15:54 2010
From: majbaermann at web.de (=?utf-8?Q?Matthias_B=C3=A4rmann?=)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:15:54 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BAD=5D_Announcing_Two_New_Lunar_Mete?=
	=?utf-8?q?orites_and_a_New_Bencubbinite=E2=80=8F?=
References: <9C2B0F73230A42B2B43C5630E9425EA4@meteorroom>
Message-ID: <9AF65C611E564449B62CB39F7A044092@thinkcentre>

Thanks Luc - and mediator Dave - for this great night-video: what a dense 
and, well, somehow suitable crazy dense atmosphere ;-)

My best,

Matthias B.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Gheesling" <dave at fallingrocks.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:49 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Announcing Two New Lunar Meteorites and a New 
Bencubbinite?


> I'M POSTING THIS FOR LUC, WHO IS HAVING TROUBLE DOING SO FROM HIS WEB 
> INTERFACE IN TUCSON:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am announcing to the list two new lunar meteorites and a Bencubbinite 
> launched for the 2010 Tucson show.
>
>
>
> I discovered the Shi?r 166, my 10th piece of the Moon in Oman, a 128.8g 
> lunar feldspathic impact-melt breccias in April 2008. The circumstances of 
> finding are quite funny because I find it in the desert at night using my 
> head lamp around the camp. The Led head lamp offer a very good contrast at 
> night so this is a possibility for everyone to extend the time of hunting 
> in place with high potential of finding in white flat desert area like 
> Oman. So, times to times a meteorite is just waiting you at night! Hunting 
> during the night, we do that since most than 10 years now, is very 
> exciting and it?s most of the time the best thing to do in the desert at 
> night with thousands of stars and sometimes the Moon inspiring you. Don?t 
> forget, to keep few hours to sleep?
>
>
>
> Anyway, here is a video take mainly by my brother few minutes after I pick 
> up the lunar. Sorry for the poor quality video but we used a small camera 
> in our car. Again sorry, we speak French in this video but you can easily 
> understand the excitation when I used sand paper on this stone and 
> discovered the typical breccias of a lunar?
>
>
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv/content/108-new-lunar-meteorite-classified-by-Randy-Korotev
>
>
>
> Just few pieces available, less than 10g are for sale, the main mass was 
> acquired by a Museum for public display.
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv/444-lunar-meteorite-shisr-166
>
>
>
> Here is the end cut with photos and a nice 360? display if you have flash 
> enabled
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv/233-lunar-meteorite-shisr-166.html
>
>
>
> I found the Dhofar 1528, a 213g stone, in a ?sub-normal? circumstance, not 
> a night!, and after a full day with no meteorite in Oman which is quite 
> exceptional. This lunar was just waiting me since long time in the desert, 
> a nice lunar classified Anorthosite (highland) breccias that contains a 
> wide variety of lithologies
>
>
>
> The end cut and some slices are available, smaller slices are available at 
> the InnSuite:
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv/457-dhofar-1528-lunar-meteorite
>
>
>
> To finish my best surprise of 2010! The Minera Escondida (name pending) a 
> new
>
> This 598g meteorite was found during a trip in Chile on Imilac with my 
> brother in 2004. From the exterior and the ?skin? so typical of iron from 
> Chile, I supposed first it was a silicated iron meteorite.
>
>
>
> So, since 2004, I used this meteorite as a nice meteorite paperweight, 
> because the particular shape round and flat. I tried to sold this iron at 
> the Sainte Marie aux Mines show in France in June 2009 as an unclassified 
> iron. It was not sold, so I decided to remove a sample for classification 
> in September 2009. and discover the real nature of it?a new bencubbinite?
>
>
>
> This CB was found near the famous Minera Escondida one of the largest mine 
> for copper.
>
>
>
> I have full and part slices and a small end cut for sale in Room 118 at 
> the InnSuites (Now Tucson City Center Hotel):
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv/la-escondida-bencubbinite/267-minera-escondida-name-pending-bencubbinite.html
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv/458-la-escondida-bencubbinite
>
>
> With best wishes to all,
>
> Luc Labenne
>
>
>
> Labenne Meteorites
>
> Meteorites for Science, Education & Collectors
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv
>
> labennemeteorites at hotmail.com
>
> luclabenne at meteorites.tv
>
>
> Dave Gheesling
> IMCA #5967
> www.fallingrocks.com
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From dave at fallingrocks.com  Wed Feb  3 08:20:06 2010
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:20:06 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BAD=5D_Announcing_Two_New_Lunar_Mete?=
	=?utf-8?q?orites_and_a_New_Bencubbinite=E2=80=8F?=
In-Reply-To: <9AF65C611E564449B62CB39F7A044092@thinkcentre>
References: <9C2B0F73230A42B2B43C5630E9425EA4@meteorroom>
	<9AF65C611E564449B62CB39F7A044092@thinkcentre>
Message-ID: <BC9C41A14E554881A9EDDAC488605DE6@meteorroom>

Yes, Matthias, that video is really great stuff indeed!
Dave
www.fallingrocks.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: majbaermann at web.de [mailto:majbaermann at web.de] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:16 AM
To: dave at fallingrocks.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [AD] Announcing Two New Lunar Meteorites and a New Bencubbinite?

Thanks Luc - and mediator Dave - for this great night-video: what a dense and, well, somehow suitable crazy dense atmosphere ;-)

My best,

Matthias B.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Gheesling" <dave at fallingrocks.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:49 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Announcing Two New Lunar Meteorites and a New Bencubbinite?


> I'M POSTING THIS FOR LUC, WHO IS HAVING TROUBLE DOING SO FROM HIS WEB 
> INTERFACE IN TUCSON:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am announcing to the list two new lunar meteorites and a 
> Bencubbinite launched for the 2010 Tucson show.
>
>
>
> I discovered the Shi?r 166, my 10th piece of the Moon in Oman, a 
> 128.8g lunar feldspathic impact-melt breccias in April 2008. The 
> circumstances of finding are quite funny because I find it in the 
> desert at night using my head lamp around the camp. The Led head lamp 
> offer a very good contrast at night so this is a possibility for 
> everyone to extend the time of hunting in place with high potential of 
> finding in white flat desert area like Oman. So, times to times a 
> meteorite is just waiting you at night! Hunting during the night, we 
> do that since most than 10 years now, is very exciting and it?s most 
> of the time the best thing to do in the desert at night with thousands 
> of stars and sometimes the Moon inspiring you. Don?t forget, to keep 
> few hours to sleep?
>
>
>
> Anyway, here is a video take mainly by my brother few minutes after I 
> pick up the lunar. Sorry for the poor quality video but we used a 
> small camera in our car. Again sorry, we speak French in this video 
> but you can easily understand the excitation when I used sand paper on 
> this stone and discovered the typical breccias of a lunar?
>
>
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv/content/108-new-lunar-meteorite-classified-by
> -Randy-Korotev
>
>
>
> Just few pieces available, less than 10g are for sale, the main mass 
> was acquired by a Museum for public display.
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv/444-lunar-meteorite-shisr-166
>
>
>
> Here is the end cut with photos and a nice 360? display if you have 
> flash enabled
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv/233-lunar-meteorite-shisr-166.html
>
>
>
> I found the Dhofar 1528, a 213g stone, in a ?sub-normal? circumstance, 
> not a night!, and after a full day with no meteorite in Oman which is 
> quite exceptional. This lunar was just waiting me since long time in 
> the desert, a nice lunar classified Anorthosite (highland) breccias 
> that contains a wide variety of lithologies
>
>
>
> The end cut and some slices are available, smaller slices are 
> available at the InnSuite:
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv/457-dhofar-1528-lunar-meteorite
>
>
>
> To finish my best surprise of 2010! The Minera Escondida (name 
> pending) a new
>
> This 598g meteorite was found during a trip in Chile on Imilac with my 
> brother in 2004. From the exterior and the ?skin? so typical of iron 
> from Chile, I supposed first it was a silicated iron meteorite.
>
>
>
> So, since 2004, I used this meteorite as a nice meteorite paperweight, 
> because the particular shape round and flat. I tried to sold this iron 
> at the Sainte Marie aux Mines show in France in June 2009 as an 
> unclassified iron. It was not sold, so I decided to remove a sample 
> for classification in September 2009. and discover the real nature of 
> it?a new bencubbinite?
>
>
>
> This CB was found near the famous Minera Escondida one of the largest 
> mine for copper.
>
>
>
> I have full and part slices and a small end cut for sale in Room 118 
> at the InnSuites (Now Tucson City Center Hotel):
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv/la-escondida-bencubbinite/267-minera-escondid
> a-name-pending-bencubbinite.html
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv/458-la-escondida-bencubbinite
>
>
> With best wishes to all,
>
> Luc Labenne
>
>
>
> Labenne Meteorites
>
> Meteorites for Science, Education & Collectors
>
> http://www.meteorites.tv
>
> labennemeteorites at hotmail.com
>
> luclabenne at meteorites.tv
>
>
> Dave Gheesling
> IMCA #5967
> www.fallingrocks.com
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From erikfwebb at msn.com  Wed Feb  3 08:54:14 2010
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:54:14 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
In-Reply-To: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF885@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>
References: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF885@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>
Message-ID: <COL119-W26EE5A7BA2ED5BD1A8A046A4560@phx.gbl>


Anyone who owns a fire arm must be a hick or redneck.? Nice one!? So
clear, we didn't even have to assume what you meant.? It must be a
terrible burden to "share correspondence" with them.?? 

I don't like when dealers gang up on each other, then again I do NOT read the threads when they do.? 

A possible solution Peter is that you can click delete the ones in your inbox related to that thread.
OR if you read from the website, do not click on the links that follow
the post that has a topic that might potentially ruffle your feathers.?
This might be a mature solution. I do not want to force anything on you or take away your right to post what you want to post.

Also:
Next time you feel the need to announce something like this, try to model it something along the lines of this:

Dear Listees

I do not like the debate on guns. Bye.

-Peter

All I'm trying to point out is that your current style of writing makes you look like a sissy and a jerk.
First you take a jab that gun owners are rednecks etc..
Then mention that you are so scared that you must be comforted by a grown woman.
I seriously doubt either of those are true.? 

What you said in text is not what you meant.? The underhand message is bluntly rude.
I would not want anyone to post saying "I never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing correspondence with 'pussies'".

I look forward to seeing your posts on the list, and I don't mean posts like this one.

[Erik]

> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:19:52 +0000
> From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
> 
> Dear Listees
> 
> I have been a member of this list now for less than a year. In that time I have seen some almighty stushies (Scots word meaning rumpus or row) and debates as well as a mountain of information and the forging of some great new friendships.
> 
> However the recent postings on guns and arms has seriously depressed and angered me, and if anything has come close to forcing me off the list, it is this. I never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing correspondence with "hicks" and "rednecks" or NRA sycophants and apologists.
> 
> Anne (Black) I salute you. Your simple, straightforward words are my only comfort. :-(
> 
> Peter Davidson
> Curator of Minerals
> ?
> National Museums Collection Centre
> National Museums Scotland
> 242 West Granton Road
> Edinburgh
> EH5 1JA
> Phone: +44?131 247 4283
> p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
> www.nms.ac.uk
> ?
> ?
> 
> Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker
> 
> National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
> This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  

From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Wed Feb  3 09:33:44 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:33:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 3,
	2010
Message-ID: <944471311.925721265207624615.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_3_2010.html



From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Feb  3 09:59:04 2010
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:59:04 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Tucson Tidbits, Ebay Extravaganza
Message-ID: <B517A3E9-F844-4B90-B4CE-A18754DFFE94@mac.com>

Aloha listoids,

Good morning from Ground Zero in Tucson, AZ.  I'm gonna be hitting the streets and showrooms very shortly and hope to see some of you there.  

The Big Kahuna has a great selection of meteorites on auction ending Saturday, February 6, starting at 7:10 am Pacific / 10:10 am Eastern / 3:10 pm London / 5:10 pm Helsinki / 11:10 pm Singapore.  Up for grabs are:

Park Forest L5 0.34, 1.27g great slices starting from only $14
Allende CV3 - Freshest frags, slices, & individuals on ebay!
Murchison CM2  Crusted frags, nothing like smell of a Murchie
Karoonda CK4  1.0g fragment lot of a rare carbonaceous $25
SaU 290 CH3  2.55g another rare carbonaceous only $90
Millbillillie Euc 4.23g  beautiful baby Millie, must see @ $41
Glorieta Mtn 21.22g gorgeously sculpted siderite for $200
Odessa IA 12.8g orig packaging and label, now at $7.50

... and much more, like some cool pendant vials (which make perfect Valentines gifts) filled with Murchison frags, NWA x Pal, Henbury, Tatahouine, and many quality unclassified and NWA 869 stones (including an oriented shield with frothy back!).

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html

Remember that you can count on the Big Kahuna to provide you with the highest quality authentic meteorites at the lowest prices on earth.  

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
(808) 640-9161







From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 21:08:40 2010
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:08:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson bound
Message-ID: <215108.98846.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi list.I leave tomorrow for tucson.I can hardly wait to see everyone.And all those outer space jewels.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From valparint at aol.com  Wed Feb  3 11:08:21 2010
From: valparint at aol.com (valparint at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:08:21 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Matters Arising
Message-ID: <5B32567CF027439C8AEE72B0D38454E0@vpoffsiteweb.local>

Peter,

Ye may be scunnered by guns but you don't have to be an atterie crabbit!  Your nestie natter is making a doolie of ye.

Paul Swartz


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dear Listees

I have been a member of this list now for less than a year. In that time I have seen some almighty stushies (Scots word meaning rumpus or row) and debates as well as a mountain of information and the forging of some great new friendships.

However the recent postings on guns and arms has seriously depressed and angered me, and if anything has come close to forcing me off the list, it is this. I never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing correspondence with "hicks" and "rednecks" or NRA sycophants and apologists.

Anne (Black) I salute you. Your simple, straightforward words are my only comfort. :-(

Peter Davidson
Curator of Minerals


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Wed Feb  3 11:23:28 2010
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:23:28 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Lorton meteorite in a vacuum cleaner
In-Reply-To: <mailman.25.1265207557.20323.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.25.1265207557.20323.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <COL108-W444D8200CDE8E78C876B499B560@phx.gbl>


Good Morning All,

Darren Garrison has pointed out to me that my novel idea of saving micros of Lorton in a vacuum bag is not so novel afterall. I thought this was really great and wanted to share this info with the other two members of this list who didn't know about it like myself. Thanks again, Darren, and I hope you don't mind me mentioning.

http://www.schoolersinc.com/meteorites_p_14.htm

I had already thought some slogans to use in case this idea met some resistance:

"4.567 billion years in space, FOREVER in a landfill."
"Go green! Save our planet and meteorites!" Yeah, I like the first one better.

Car*
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/

From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Feb  3 11:35:11 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:35:11 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Lorton meteorite in a vacuum cleaner
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W444D8200CDE8E78C876B499B560@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.25.1265207557.20323.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
	<COL108-W444D8200CDE8E78C876B499B560@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <o69jm55g24lnto4t13k7qrnpqh5i37hjhn@4ax.com>

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:23:28 -0800, you wrote:

>Darren Garrison has pointed out to me that my novel idea of saving micros of Lorton in a vacuum bag is not so novel afterall. I thought this was really great and wanted to share this info with the other two members of this list who didn't know about it like myself. Thanks again, Darren, and I hope you don't mind me mentioning.

This morning I tried to photograph my krumbs-o-Kobe, but it isn't easy to get
good photos of very small objects that are inside a gel capsule inside a
membrane box.  Here's the best of the set:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3538/kobekrumbs.jpg


From GeoZay at aol.com  Wed Feb  3 11:31:13 2010
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:31:13 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
Message-ID: <9da2.3386abe7.389afed1@aol.com>

>>However the recent postings on guns and  arms has seriously depressed and 
angered me, and if anything has come close to  forcing me off the list, it 
is this. I never thought I would see the day when I  would be sharing 
correspondence with "hicks" and "rednecks" or NRA sycophants  and apologists.<<

There's probably a fair number of folks here that  could be considered a 
"hick" or "redneck" by one definition or another. When I  was a kid, I lived 
and went to school surrounded by miles of brush and trees. We  took being 
called "hicks" and "rednecks" with some pride. You sound a bit  elitist to me. 
Out of curiosity, what would it take to force you a little closer  to 
getting off the list?
GeoZay  



From mpg4444 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 11:34:31 2010
From: mpg4444 at gmail.com (Michael Groetz)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:34:31 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite worth thousands...........
Message-ID: <ad733151002030834nd09e198j3c0e5732ce1479c7@mail.gmail.com>

List-
    Maybe many of the rest of you don't feel this way- but to me it
generally seems the news media and television shows are more concerned
about a quick buck rather than the science and appreciation for
meteorites for what they are- treasures from space that you can hold
in your hand.
    It seems like initially meteorites are viewed as something special
and usually wind up "How much is it worth?" after buyers roll in.
   The doctor in this case tried to maintain the scientific value for
all to appreciate while helping the people of Haiti. Then the $$$ was
thrown at them and greed seems to be winning out.
    Sorry for the frustration.
Mike

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/03/meteorite-worth-thousands-stirs-ownership-debate/


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 11:37:30 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:37:30 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite worth thousands...........
In-Reply-To: <ad733151002030834nd09e198j3c0e5732ce1479c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ad733151002030834nd09e198j3c0e5732ce1479c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002030837p1537fdbdxfca5a1e9f55e1d3c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Michael,

I cringe every time I see a media outlet attach a dollar value to a meteorite.

I cringed twice when I saw Fox News carrying the story.

Best regards,

MikeG



On 2/3/10, Michael Groetz <mpg4444 at gmail.com> wrote:
> List-
>     Maybe many of the rest of you don't feel this way- but to me it
> generally seems the news media and television shows are more concerned
> about a quick buck rather than the science and appreciation for
> meteorites for what they are- treasures from space that you can hold
> in your hand.
>     It seems like initially meteorites are viewed as something special
> and usually wind up "How much is it worth?" after buyers roll in.
>    The doctor in this case tried to maintain the scientific value for
> all to appreciate while helping the people of Haiti. Then the $$$ was
> thrown at them and greed seems to be winning out.
>     Sorry for the frustration.
> Mike
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/03/meteorite-worth-thousands-stirs-ownership-debate/
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Wed Feb  3 11:56:03 2010
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:56:03 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Lorton meteorite in a vacuum cleaner
Message-ID: <COL108-W59EBCB06E4C1A55208F3F99B560@phx.gbl>



Nice pic. Very clear. One of the krumbs looks like a baby Rodan with rounded wings. 

Car*


http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3538/kobekrumbs.jpg
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/

From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Wed Feb  3 11:56:37 2010
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 16:56:37 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
Message-ID: <DIIE.000000BD0000448A@paulinet.de>

Hello Folks,

Last year, in Ensisheim 2009, I had the pleasure and the honor of meeting
and talking to Peter and I can assure you that he is an extremely friendly,
gentle person, a true gentleman. With utmost regret would I want to see
him leave the list!

He doesn't need anyone's help to make his point. He only mentions Anne
because she already stated quite clearly that such pictures should not be
presented on this list - they have nothing to do with meteorites.

What Anne (who is, as most of you know, a native of France) and Peter
state is what and how most Europeans here feel about guns and weapons:
they are not toys!

We should also be aware of those "subtle" differences between British and
American English. Maybe it's the different usage of certain words on both
sides of the Big Pond that caused this nasty situation.

I am absolutely sure Peter did not intend to attack people as individuals. His
post was aimed at the light-headed way they fooled around with guns. Do not
forget that it is not only adults who see these pics. It's also children who might
feel like having to point a gun, maybe "only"an airgun, right at their friend's face!

Best wishes,

Bernd



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 12:14:48 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:14:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
In-Reply-To: <DIIE.000000BD0000448A@paulinet.de>
References: <DIIE.000000BD0000448A@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <e51421551002030914g1dff5e7cm538767d76d358084@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bernd and List,

I can vouch that Peter is an asset to the List and I would hate to see
him leave because some of us Americans can't keep our childish
impulses under control.

I currently own one gun and have owned several, including assault
weapons.  I support the right to private ownership of firearms.  But,
I also believe that all firearms should be treated with respect and
they have a proper place.  My current firearm has not left it's lock
box in over a year - and the last time it was removed was for a
cleaning.  I would be a happy man if my gun is never discharged or
brandished.

Again, assuming the pistol that started all of this is real, juvenile
tomfoolery with guns is not only irresponsible, but it's also
off-topic for this list.

Unfortunately, I will catch some flak from my fellow Americans for
stating this in public, but we are an arrogant bunch and we think our
way is always the right way.  As a whole, we have little consideration
for the cultures or beliefs of others.

To be sure, there are a few right-leaning List members who think that
Peter just needs to drink a Coca Cola, smoke a Marlboro cigarette,
drink a Starbucks coffee, and watch a mindless Hollywood 3-D movie.
And then Peter will realize the errors of his ways.  If not, we will
declare him a terrorist and bomb Scotland.  Problem solved.

;)

Best regards,

MikeG




On 03 Feb 2010 16:56:37 UT, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
<bernd.pauli at paulinet.de> wrote:
> Hello Folks,
>
> Last year, in Ensisheim 2009, I had the pleasure and the honor of meeting
> and talking to Peter and I can assure you that he is an extremely friendly,
> gentle person, a true gentleman. With utmost regret would I want to see
> him leave the list!
>
> He doesn't need anyone's help to make his point. He only mentions Anne
> because she already stated quite clearly that such pictures should not be
> presented on this list - they have nothing to do with meteorites.
>
> What Anne (who is, as most of you know, a native of France) and Peter
> state is what and how most Europeans here feel about guns and weapons:
> they are not toys!
>
> We should also be aware of those "subtle" differences between British and
> American English. Maybe it's the different usage of certain words on both
> sides of the Big Pond that caused this nasty situation.
>
> I am absolutely sure Peter did not intend to attack people as individuals.
> His
> post was aimed at the light-headed way they fooled around with guns. Do not
> forget that it is not only adults who see these pics. It's also children who
> might
> feel like having to point a gun, maybe "only"an airgun, right at their
> friend's face!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bernd
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From minador at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 12:44:04 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:44:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising (cease fire! - white flag)
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002030914g1dff5e7cm538767d76d358084@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DIIE.000000BD0000448A@paulinet.de>
	<e51421551002030914g1dff5e7cm538767d76d358084@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <729899.94989.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Let's please not let this degenerate into a debate surrounding the?2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
?
Lets not beat a vaca muerta.? It's been pointed out that the phrase "I didn't know it was loaded" is a sad one which can be eliminated by safe behavior.??Firearms are not toys.? As a member of this forum and an NRA?firearms safety instructor,?the Count was?duty bound to mention his concern (and was the first to show his concern).? It is a serious safety issue.? I hope we leave it to that, regardless of what you believe.
?
There is no need to discuss it?here any further as ONLY HURTFUL WORDS WILL FOLLOW.
?
Let's not make it a?debate between Right and Left and assume what the Right or?Left think.? People are diverse in their views and it's not as simple as that.? Some of us in Arizona?near the border live?under serious threat from?cross border smugglers and bandits, regardless of our political beliefs.? Do not make it a debate between how many people died on?what?continent during select time periods.? Stop with the names...
?
The photos were innocent and for fun, but looking back they didn't treat firearms with the respect that they necessitate.
?
Let's give the members under question the benefit of the doubt.????????? It's highly unlikely more questionable photos will be used in the future.? 
?
So let's get back to meteorites and?keep your powder dry until more offensive photos are posted.
?
If you feel the need to reply to something that someone has already written, it's easy to keep it off list (be courteous and reply in private...).? Nobody should be asked?OR feel that they need to leave the list.? And neither side should subject the list to their private beliefs (unless they are relevant to the subject of meteoritics).
?
Truce please!

Mark Bowling
Vail, AZ (TUCSON!)



----- Original Message ----
From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
To: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
Cc: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 10:14:48 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising

Hi Bernd and List,

I can vouch that Peter is an asset to the List and I would hate to see
him leave because some of us Americans can't keep our childish
impulses under control.

I currently own one gun and have owned several, including assault
weapons.? I support the right to private ownership of firearms.? But,
I also believe that all firearms should be treated with respect and
they have a proper place.? My current firearm has not left it's lock
box in over a year - and the last time it was removed was for a
cleaning.? I would be a happy man if my gun is never discharged or
brandished.

Again, assuming the pistol that started all of this is real, juvenile
tomfoolery with guns is not only irresponsible, but it's also
off-topic for this list.

Unfortunately, I will catch some flak from my fellow Americans for
stating this in public, but we are an arrogant bunch and we think our
way is always the right way.? As a whole, we have little consideration
for the cultures or beliefs of others.

To be sure, there are a few right-leaning List members who think that
Peter just needs to drink a Coca Cola, smoke a Marlboro cigarette,
drink a Starbucks coffee, and watch a mindless Hollywood 3-D movie.
And then Peter will realize the errors of his ways.? If not, we will
declare him a terrorist and bomb Scotland.? Problem solved.

;)

Best regards,

MikeG




On 03 Feb 2010 16:56:37 UT, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
<bernd.pauli at paulinet.de> wrote:
> Hello Folks,
>
> Last year, in Ensisheim 2009, I had the pleasure and the honor of meeting
> and talking to Peter and I can assure you that he is an extremely friendly,
> gentle person, a true gentleman. With utmost regret would I want to see
> him leave the list!
>
> He doesn't need anyone's help to make his point. He only mentions Anne
> because she already stated quite clearly that such pictures should not be
> presented on this list - they have nothing to do with meteorites.
>
> What Anne (who is, as most of you know, a native of France) and Peter
> state is what and how most Europeans here feel about guns and weapons:
> they are not toys!
>
> We should also be aware of those "subtle" differences between British and
> American English. Maybe it's the different usage of certain words on both
> sides of the Big Pond that caused this nasty situation.
>
> I am absolutely sure Peter did not intend to attack people as individuals.
> His
> post was aimed at the light-headed way they fooled around with guns. Do not
> forget that it is not only adults who see these pics. It's also children who
> might
> feel like having to point a gun, maybe "only"an airgun, right at their
> friend's face!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bernd
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From warnerem at astro.umd.edu  Wed Feb  3 12:44:08 2010
From: warnerem at astro.umd.edu (Elizabeth Warner)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:44:08 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002030914g1dff5e7cm538767d76d358084@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DIIE.000000BD0000448A@paulinet.de>
	<e51421551002030914g1dff5e7cm538767d76d358084@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B69B5E8.70303@astro.umd.edu>

Hey Ya'll!

I don't know the individuals involved on either side of this discussion. 
But not all gun owners are irresponsible. As I'm sure not all Scots are 
arrogant drunkards. (See stereotyping can go both ways!)

And while I was not pleased to see the photos showing the irresponsible 
handling of the guns (sure, take your pics, keep them private, but to 
show them publicly??), I do believe in the right to bear arms!

However, I was even more taken aback by Peter's statement "never thought 
I would see the day when I would be sharing correspondence with "hicks" 
and "rednecks"!"

And what is wrong with a 'hick' or 'redneck'??

As an exchange student in Germany 20 years ago, I was explaining to one 
of my German friends what a redneck was (I am from the American south... 
South Carolina!)... And I started to describe it in somewhat derogatory 
terms.... until her father walked in and past and I saw he had one of 
the reddest necks I've ever seen and he was a hardworking farmer... I 
managed to correct myself before I insulted him.

I have found that many 'hicks' and 'rednecks' are in fact well educated 
and more tolerant than Peter shows himself to be!

Clear Skies!
Elizabeth
warnerem at astro.umd.edu
301-405-6555

A true 'GRITS'... Gal Raised in the South!





Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
> Hi Bernd and List,
> 
> I can vouch that Peter is an asset to the List and I would hate to see
> him leave because some of us Americans can't keep our childish
> impulses under control.
> 
> I currently own one gun and have owned several, including assault
> weapons.  I support the right to private ownership of firearms.  But,
> I also believe that all firearms should be treated with respect and
> they have a proper place.  My current firearm has not left it's lock
> box in over a year - and the last time it was removed was for a
> cleaning.  I would be a happy man if my gun is never discharged or
> brandished.
> 
> Again, assuming the pistol that started all of this is real, juvenile
> tomfoolery with guns is not only irresponsible, but it's also
> off-topic for this list.
> 
> Unfortunately, I will catch some flak from my fellow Americans for
> stating this in public, but we are an arrogant bunch and we think our
> way is always the right way.  As a whole, we have little consideration
> for the cultures or beliefs of others.
> 
> To be sure, there are a few right-leaning List members who think that
> Peter just needs to drink a Coca Cola, smoke a Marlboro cigarette,
> drink a Starbucks coffee, and watch a mindless Hollywood 3-D movie.
> And then Peter will realize the errors of his ways.  If not, we will
> declare him a terrorist and bomb Scotland.  Problem solved.
> 
> ;)
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> MikeG
> 
>


From scyphocrinites at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 12:46:59 2010
From: scyphocrinites at yahoo.com (Malek Youssef)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:46:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad : 120 g Euc/How
Message-ID: <969849.46645.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi
I have available a 120 g Eucrite/Howardite , for pics and price contact me offlist.
Regards
M.Youssef


      


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Wed Feb  3 13:39:11 2010
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:39:11 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list]  dubious 'iron' on e-bay
References: <969849.46645.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <177122B429DD4D1880D4107C33947300@LintoniusLaptop>

Good day list,
I've been searching for meteorites from Utah on e-bay for quite some time, 
and an ad came up a few days  ago for an alleged iron.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110487777840&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
The seller clearly doesn't know what he's talking about (not that I'm all 
that knowledgable). His grandfather found the 'rock', but apparently no 
testing or analysis was ever done. To me, it looks like some kind of manmade 
material, slag perhaps. But the photos don't blow up and I can't discern any 
detail. Would anyone care to share an opinion? I'd appreciate it.
Linton - thoroughly enjoying Tucson! 



From webbth1 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 13:45:51 2010
From: webbth1 at yahoo.com (Thomas Webb)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:45:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
In-Reply-To: <4B69B5E8.70303@astro.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <818493.77971.qm@web56506.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Elizabeth,
Thank you for your defense of us who live in Southern USA.  I still feel a little touchy about a discussion that occurred on the list several years ago, soon after I joined, in which those of us who live in Southern USA were made fun of, and to compound it, one of those who made the most disparaging remarks works for a governmental agency and is being paid with our tax dollars!
The terms "hicks" and "rednecks" do not neccessarily equate with "unintelligent".  Some of the best thinkers I know of have been, at times,  referred to in this manner by some people from our northern states.  I'm sure constitutional attorney Sam Ervin who referred to himself as "just a country lawyer" is one of them (he lived in a town about 30 miles from me).  I think it's unfortunate that Peter used these terms to express his displeasure with the gun photos while I defend his right to show displeasure.  I live in an area of NC largely settled by Scottish Highlanders and where we have the best Highland Games in the country.  I would invite Peter and all of you to come this year, the second week in July.  I think the photos were all in fun but in retrospect those involved probably wish they had kept them private.
I will mention another term, "meteorite", just to keep this legal for the list :>).
My best,
Thomas


--- On Wed, 2/3/10, Elizabeth Warner <warnerem at astro.umd.edu> wrote:

> From: Elizabeth Warner <warnerem at astro.umd.edu>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 12:44 PM
> Hey Ya'll!
> 
> I don't know the individuals involved on either side of
> this discussion. But not all gun owners are irresponsible.
> As I'm sure not all Scots are arrogant drunkards. (See
> stereotyping can go both ways!)
> 
> And while I was not pleased to see the photos showing the
> irresponsible handling of the guns (sure, take your pics,
> keep them private, but to show them publicly??), I do
> believe in the right to bear arms!
> 
> However, I was even more taken aback by Peter's statement
> "never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing
> correspondence with "hicks" and "rednecks"!"
> 
> And what is wrong with a 'hick' or 'redneck'??
> 
> As an exchange student in Germany 20 years ago, I was
> explaining to one of my German friends what a redneck was (I
> am from the American south... South Carolina!)... And I
> started to describe it in somewhat derogatory terms....
> until her father walked in and past and I saw he had one of
> the reddest necks I've ever seen and he was a hardworking
> farmer... I managed to correct myself before I insulted
> him.
> 
> I have found that many 'hicks' and 'rednecks' are in fact
> well educated and more tolerant than Peter shows himself to
> be!
> 
> Clear Skies!
> Elizabeth
> warnerem at astro.umd.edu
> 301-405-6555
> 
> A true 'GRITS'... Gal Raised in the South!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
> > Hi Bernd and List,
> > 
> > I can vouch that Peter is an asset to the List and I
> would hate to see
> > him leave because some of us Americans can't keep our
> childish
> > impulses under control.
> > 
> > I currently own one gun and have owned several,
> including assault
> > weapons.? I support the right to private
> ownership of firearms.? But,
> > I also believe that all firearms should be treated
> with respect and
> > they have a proper place.? My current firearm has
> not left it's lock
> > box in over a year - and the last time it was removed
> was for a
> > cleaning.? I would be a happy man if my gun is
> never discharged or
> > brandished.
> > 
> > Again, assuming the pistol that started all of this is
> real, juvenile
> > tomfoolery with guns is not only irresponsible, but
> it's also
> > off-topic for this list.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, I will catch some flak from my fellow
> Americans for
> > stating this in public, but we are an arrogant bunch
> and we think our
> > way is always the right way.? As a whole, we have
> little consideration
> > for the cultures or beliefs of others.
> > 
> > To be sure, there are a few right-leaning List members
> who think that
> > Peter just needs to drink a Coca Cola, smoke a
> Marlboro cigarette,
> > drink a Starbucks coffee, and watch a mindless
> Hollywood 3-D movie.
> > And then Peter will realize the errors of his
> ways.? If not, we will
> > declare him a terrorist and bomb Scotland.?
> Problem solved.
> > 
> > ;)
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
> > MikeG
> > 
> > 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      



From dfpens01 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 13:49:41 2010
From: dfpens01 at yahoo.com (David Pensenstadler)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:49:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
In-Reply-To: <DIIE.000000BD0000448A@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <611268.27181.qm@web112307.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I also think the Pic of the Day photos were in bad taste.  I also own guns but would never think of taking or posting a picture like the ones shown.

Dave

--- On Wed, 2/3/10, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de> wrote:

> From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 11:56 AM
> Hello Folks,
> 
> Last year, in Ensisheim 2009, I had the pleasure and the
> honor of meeting
> and talking to Peter and I can assure you that he is an
> extremely friendly,
> gentle person, a true gentleman. With utmost regret would I
> want to see
> him leave the list!
> 
> He doesn't need anyone's help to make his point. He only
> mentions Anne
> because she already stated quite clearly that such pictures
> should not be
> presented on this list - they have nothing to do with
> meteorites.
> 
> What Anne (who is, as most of you know, a native of France)
> and Peter
> state is what and how most Europeans here feel about guns
> and weapons:
> they are not toys!
> 
> We should also be aware of those "subtle" differences
> between British and
> American English. Maybe it's the different usage of certain
> words on both
> sides of the Big Pond that caused this nasty situation.
> 
> I am absolutely sure Peter did not intend to attack people
> as individuals. His
> post was aimed at the light-headed way they fooled around
> with guns. Do not
> forget that it is not only adults who see these pics. It's
> also children who might
> feel like having to point a gun, maybe "only"an airgun,
> right at their friend's face!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Bernd
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 13:51:56 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:51:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
Message-ID: <746890.70746.qm@web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello List,

An artical today from The Washington Post on the Lorto Meteorite.

Shawn Alan

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/02/AR2010020203028.html


From fallingfusion at wi.rr.com  Wed Feb  3 13:55:37 2010
From: fallingfusion at wi.rr.com (fallingfusion at wi.rr.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:55:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
Message-ID: <20100203185537.PMCC0.410257.root@cdptpa-web04-z01>

I am not exactly sure how this discussion got brought up on a meteorite email 
list (well actually, I do). But it is an important one, none the less. 
 
This is my personal opinion. If you don't agree, then please done reply, because 
I won't be. I am not pointing fingers (or guns)... at anyone in particular.  
 
I have no problem with someone exercising their right to bear arms. I do, 
however, have a problem with people that decide to do so in an irresponsible, 
immature manner. I cannot stress enough the importance of handling a weapon 
(loaded or not) in the proper manner. And I don't even own a gun.. just common 
sense. I also believe that NOBODY should be carrying a sidearm in public without 
the proper training. Even here in WI, anyone can go to a firearms dealer and 
purchase a gun without attending any formal training whatsoever... and to that, 
I don't necessarily agree. Perhaps my training and personal experience has lead 
me to be a bit more stern regarding this topic, but I have also heard countless 
additional first-hand experiences from those that are involved in law 
enforcement and firearms certification here in Milwaukee. They are tools that 
can terminate life immediately. 
 
Regards, 
 
Ryan Pawelski 
 
 
 
---- Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote: 
> 
> Anyone who owns a fire arm must be a hick or redneck.  Nice one!  So 
> clear, we didn't even have to assume what you meant.  It must be a 
> terrible burden to "share correspondence" with them.   
> 
> I don't like when dealers gang up on each other, then again I do NOT read the 
threads when they do.  
> 
> A possible solution Peter is that you can click delete the ones in your inbox 
related to that thread. 
> OR if you read from the website, do not click on the links that follow 
> the post that has a topic that might potentially ruffle your feathers.  
> This might be a mature solution. I do not want to force anything on you or 
take away your right to post what you want to post. 
> 
> Also: 
> Next time you feel the need to announce something like this, try to model it 
something along the lines of this: 
> 
> Dear Listees 
> 
> I do not like the debate on guns. Bye. 
> 
> -Peter 
> 
> All I'm trying to point out is that your current style of writing makes you 
look like a sissy and a jerk. 
> First you take a jab that gun owners are rednecks etc.. 
> Then mention that you are so scared that you must be comforted by a grown 
woman. 
> I seriously doubt either of those are true.  
> 
> What you said in text is not what you meant.  The underhand message is bluntly 
rude. 
> I would not want anyone to post saying "I never thought I would see the day 
when I would be sharing correspondence with 'pussies'". 
> 
> I look forward to seeing your posts on the list, and I don't mean posts like 
this one. 
> 
> [Erik] 
> 
> > Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:19:52 +0000 
> > From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk 
> > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising 
> > 
> > Dear Listees 
> > 
> > I have been a member of this list now for less than a year. In that time I 
have seen some almighty stushies (Scots word meaning rumpus or row) and debates 
as well as a mountain of information and the forging of some great new 
friendships. 
> > 
> > However the recent postings on guns and arms has seriously depressed and 
angered me, and if anything has come close to forcing me off the list, it is 
this. I never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing correspondence 
with "hicks" and "rednecks" or NRA sycophants and apologists. 
> > 
> > Anne (Black) I salute you. Your simple, straightforward words are my only 
comfort. :-( 
> > 
> > Peter Davidson 
> > Curator of Minerals 
> >   
> > National Museums Collection Centre 
> > National Museums Scotland 
> > 242 West Granton Road 
> > Edinburgh 
> > EH5 1JA 
> > Phone: +44 131 247 4283 
> > p.davidson at nms.ac.uk 
> > www.nms.ac.uk 
> >   
> >   
> > 
> > Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National 
Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker 
> > 
> > National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 
> > This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the 
addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The 
statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do 
not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is 
subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) 
Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your 
systems or data by this message. 
> > ______________________________________________ 
> > Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 
> > Meteorite-list mailing list 
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
>  		 	   		  
> ______________________________________________ 
> Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 
> Meteorite-list mailing list 
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:12:59 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:12:59 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising (cease fire! - white flag)
In-Reply-To: <729899.94989.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <DIIE.000000BD0000448A@paulinet.de>
	<e51421551002030914g1dff5e7cm538767d76d358084@mail.gmail.com>
	<729899.94989.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002031112u6d56733eh9a711465d13b01f8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark and List,

Well said Mark.

I apologize to my fellow Americans for the backhanded slap I delivered
in my last post.  I do carry a chip on my shoulder regarding the
"coarser" elements of our society and I let that negative attitude
overtake my last post.  If anyone is accused of being "elitist", it
should be I, and not Peter.  The ironic thing is, I am probably the
most dirt-poor elitist you'll ever see. ;)

I am sure that Geoff and Blaine did not have any ill-will in their
intents, nor did Greg.   They were just having a bit of sport.  Nobody
would question the contributions to meteoritics that these people have
made, so I think we should cut them a bit of slack regarding this.

But I also think this is a learning moment for the List and Americans.
 Just because our government's legal documents afford us the right to
own firearms in this country, it does not give us license to force our
views on other cultures.  The Rocks from Space POD is an eye-candy
pleasure that many members on the List look forward to seeing.  These
members are scattered around the world and not all of them share our
viewpoints on firearms and their importance to our civil liberties.  I
hope that this episode will teach us to be a little more careful about
how we choose to exhibit our love of liberty and to be more
considerate of others.

As an American, I think it's great that the citizenry of Tucson can
own and carry firearms.  I can guarantee that Tucson has a lower crime
rate for it.  And I certainly won't argue the security that comes from
hiking the desert with a gun - considering how many drug runners and
immigrant smugglers there are out there.  But, if I was a foreign
visitor coming to Tucson for the first time, I would be shocked and
perhaps scared to see a bunch of people walking around armed to the
teeth with loaded firearms in plain view and easy reach.  This would
be especially true given the easy availability of alcohol.  Frankly,
if I had a room in Tucson and I was selling meteorites out of it - I
would hang a sign on the door of my room - "Please, no firearms
allowed in this room."  I don't see the need to carry a loaded gun to
a mineral show.   I visit areas of Tampa regularly that are far more
dangerous than any tent at the mineral show, and I don't feel the need
to wear a loaded pistol on my hip.  So let's show some consideration
for our overseas guests who are uncomfortable around guns - they are
our guests and it is our duty to be gracious and accomodating.

Best regards,

MikeG




On 2/3/10, Mark Bowling <minador at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Let's please not let this degenerate into a debate surrounding the 2nd
> Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
>
> Lets not beat a vaca muerta.  It's been pointed out that the phrase "I
> didn't know it was loaded" is a sad one which can be eliminated by safe
> behavior.  Firearms are not toys.  As a member of this forum and an
> NRA firearms safety instructor, the Count was duty bound to mention his
> concern (and was the first to show his concern).  It is a serious safety
> issue.  I hope we leave it to that, regardless of what you believe.
>
> There is no need to discuss it here any further as ONLY HURTFUL WORDS WILL
> FOLLOW.
>
> Let's not make it a debate between Right and Left and assume what the Right
> or Left think.  People are diverse in their views and it's not as simple as
> that.  Some of us in Arizona near the border live under serious threat
> from cross border smugglers and bandits, regardless of our political
> beliefs.  Do not make it a debate between how many people died
> on what continent during select time periods.  Stop with the names...
>
> The photos were innocent and for fun, but looking back they didn't treat
> firearms with the respect that they necessitate.
>
> Let's give the members under question the benefit of the doubt.
> It's highly unlikely more questionable photos will be used in the future.
>
> So let's get back to meteorites and keep your powder dry until more
> offensive photos are posted.
>
> If you feel the need to reply to something that someone has already written,
> it's easy to keep it off list (be courteous and reply in private...).
> Nobody should be asked OR feel that they need to leave the list.  And
> neither side should subject the list to their private beliefs (unless they
> are relevant to the subject of meteoritics).
>
> Truce please!
>
> Mark Bowling
> Vail, AZ (TUCSON!)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> To: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
> Cc: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 10:14:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
>
> Hi Bernd and List,
>
> I can vouch that Peter is an asset to the List and I would hate to see
> him leave because some of us Americans can't keep our childish
> impulses under control.
>
> I currently own one gun and have owned several, including assault
> weapons.  I support the right to private ownership of firearms.  But,
> I also believe that all firearms should be treated with respect and
> they have a proper place.  My current firearm has not left it's lock
> box in over a year - and the last time it was removed was for a
> cleaning.  I would be a happy man if my gun is never discharged or
> brandished.
>
> Again, assuming the pistol that started all of this is real, juvenile
> tomfoolery with guns is not only irresponsible, but it's also
> off-topic for this list.
>
> Unfortunately, I will catch some flak from my fellow Americans for
> stating this in public, but we are an arrogant bunch and we think our
> way is always the right way.  As a whole, we have little consideration
> for the cultures or beliefs of others.
>
> To be sure, there are a few right-leaning List members who think that
> Peter just needs to drink a Coca Cola, smoke a Marlboro cigarette,
> drink a Starbucks coffee, and watch a mindless Hollywood 3-D movie.
> And then Peter will realize the errors of his ways.  If not, we will
> declare him a terrorist and bomb Scotland.  Problem solved.
>
> ;)
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
>
> On 03 Feb 2010 16:56:37 UT, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
> <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de> wrote:
>> Hello Folks,
>>
>> Last year, in Ensisheim 2009, I had the pleasure and the honor of meeting
>> and talking to Peter and I can assure you that he is an extremely
>> friendly,
>> gentle person, a true gentleman. With utmost regret would I want to see
>> him leave the list!
>>
>> He doesn't need anyone's help to make his point. He only mentions Anne
>> because she already stated quite clearly that such pictures should not be
>> presented on this list - they have nothing to do with meteorites.
>>
>> What Anne (who is, as most of you know, a native of France) and Peter
>> state is what and how most Europeans here feel about guns and weapons:
>> they are not toys!
>>
>> We should also be aware of those "subtle" differences between British and
>> American English. Maybe it's the different usage of certain words on both
>> sides of the Big Pond that caused this nasty situation.
>>
>> I am absolutely sure Peter did not intend to attack people as individuals.
>> His
>> post was aimed at the light-headed way they fooled around with guns. Do
>> not
>> forget that it is not only adults who see these pics. It's also children
>> who
>> might
>> feel like having to point a gun, maybe "only"an airgun, right at their
>> friend's face!
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Bernd
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From magbish3 at lowcountry.com  Wed Feb  3 14:15:31 2010
From: magbish3 at lowcountry.com (Mal Bishop)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:15:31 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
In-Reply-To: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF885@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>
References: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF885@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>
Message-ID: <4B69CB53.2010407@lowcountry.com>


Peter, although I'm a US citizen by birth, I must agree with both you
and Anne on this ridiculous show of childish and sophomoric behavior,
not to mention its potentially dangerous effects on some of the more
simple minded types ( that may or may not be members of this list ) to
copy such behavior!  This sort of idiocy only goes to perpetuate the
American stereotype in a negative light even more so than it may already
be perceived worldwide -- not to mention it is even to the distaste of
other Americans in various regions and cultures of our own country.

I have a background and temperament fostered from childhood of hunting
and target shooting of which I still practice shooting various types of
firearms and reload ammo, etc to this day, some 40 years after my father
first introduced me to guns and hunting ( although I don't much care for
hunting anymore these days).  With the out-of-control gun violence in
this country and with both terrorists (domestically home grown, as well
as form abroad) trying to destroy our country and way of life, I just
don't get the humor, and bravado, in showing out with weapons of any
kind -- most especially firearms like this...and especially on a list
that purports to be inhabited by scientific, intellectually minded
personalities and deals with a subject matter of a somewhat different
nature!  Last I knew this wasn't the Guns and Ammo list, or Guns Are Us,
blah, blah, blah...

I feel acts like these only go to heighten problems with our image
worldwide, and also just make Americans more, nervous, paranoid, and
divisive toward each other.  All it takes is one stupid SOB to take it
to the next level and then another needless tragedy manifests itself in
the Good ol' US of A!!!

Guns are a serious matter for serious minded people, not children
wanting to play pretend grown-up, or cowboys and Indians, or cops and
robbers, or whatever!

Peter, please also realize that not everyone who has a hobby involving
shooting, hunting, and firearms are all rednecks, or hicks -- although
there are more than plenty of those around where I live to be sure.
There are also many law abiding, good down-to-earth, hard working,
freedom loving Americans as well that don't approve of this sort of
silliness either!!!

My respect and admiration to Anne and you, as well as others of a more
sensible nature and discretion!

Mal


On 2/3/2010 4:19 AM, Peter Davidson wrote:
> Dear Listees
>
> I have been a member of this list now for less than a year. In that time I have seen some almighty stushies (Scots word meaning rumpus or row) and debates as well as a mountain of information and the forging of some great new friendships.
>
> However the recent postings on guns and arms has seriously depressed and angered me, and if anything has come close to forcing me off the list, it is this. I never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing correspondence with "hicks" and "rednecks" or NRA sycophants and apologists.
>
> Anne (Black) I salute you. Your simple, straightforward words are my only comfort. :-(
>
> Peter Davidson
> Curator of Minerals
>  
> National Museums Collection Centre
> National Museums Scotland
> 242 West Granton Road
> Edinburgh
> EH5 1JA
> Phone: +44 131 247 4283
> p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
> www.nms.ac.uk
>  
>  
>
> Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker
>
> National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
> This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>   



From magbish3 at lowcountry.com  Wed Feb  3 14:13:29 2010
From: magbish3 at lowcountry.com (Mal Bishop)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:13:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
In-Reply-To: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF885@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>
References: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF885@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>
Message-ID: <4B69CAD9.4020200@lowcountry.com>


Peter, although I'm a US citizen by birth, I must agree with both you
and Anne on this ridiculous show of childish and sophomoric behavior,
not to mention its potentially dangerous effects on some of the more
simple minded types ( that may or may not be members of this list ) to
copy such behavior!  This sort of idiocy only goes to perpetuate the
American stereotype in a negative light even more so than it may already
be perceived worldwide -- not to mention it is even to the distaste of
other Americans in various regions and cultures of our own country.

I have a background and temperament fostered from childhood of hunting
and target shooting of which I still practice shooting various types of
firearms and reload ammo, etc to this day, some 40 years after my father
first introduced me to guns and hunting ( although I don't much care for
hunting anymore these days).  With the out-of-control gun violence in
this country and with both terrorists (domestically home grown, as well
as form abroad) trying to destroy our country and way of life, I just
don't get the humor, and bravado, in showing out with weapons of any
kind -- most especially firearms like this...and especially on a list
that purports to be inhabited by scientific, intellectually minded
personalities and deals with a subject matter of a somewhat different
nature!  Last I knew this wasn't the Guns and Ammo list, or Guns Are Us,
blah, blah, blah...

I feel acts like these only go to heighten problems with our image
worldwide, and also just make Americans more, nervous, paranoid, and
divisive toward each other.  All it takes is one stupid SOB to take it
to the next level and then another needless tragedy manifests itself in
the Good ol' US of A!!!

Guns are a serious matter for serious minded people, not children
wanting to play pretend grown-up, or cowboys and Indians, or cops and
robbers, or whatever!

Peter, please also realize that not everyone who has a hobby involving
shooting, hunting, and firearms are all rednecks, or hicks -- although
there are more than plenty of those around where I live to be sure. 
There are also many law abiding, good down-to-earth, hard working,
freedom loving Americans as well that don't approve of this sort of
silliness either!!!

My respect and admiration to Anne and you, as well as others of a more
sensible nature and discretion! 


Mal


On 2/3/2010 4:19 AM, Peter Davidson wrote:
> Dear Listees
>
> I have been a member of this list now for less than a year. In that time I have seen some almighty stushies (Scots word meaning rumpus or row) and debates as well as a mountain of information and the forging of some great new friendships.
>
> However the recent postings on guns and arms has seriously depressed and angered me, and if anything has come close to forcing me off the list, it is this. I never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing correspondence with "hicks" and "rednecks" or NRA sycophants and apologists.
>
> Anne (Black) I salute you. Your simple, straightforward words are my only comfort. :-(
>
> Peter Davidson
> Curator of Minerals
>  
> National Museums Collection Centre
> National Museums Scotland
> 242 West Granton Road
> Edinburgh
> EH5 1JA
> Phone: +44 131 247 4283
> p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
> www.nms.ac.uk
>  
>  
>
> Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker
>
> National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
> This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>   



From mqfowler at mac.com  Wed Feb  3 14:42:44 2010
From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:42:44 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
Message-ID: <EFB0A5DA-55CA-4851-8D36-56F769EEAF61@mac.com>

I'm not European, but I agree with Bernd and others who feel guns are not a laughing matter and should not be treated as such.  Please do not include guns and meteorites in the same picture.  When I think of guns, I think of death and violence.  This is nothing that should be glorified, or joked about.

Sincerely,

Mike Fowler
Chicago




> Hello Folks, 
> 
> Last year, in Ensisheim 2009, I had the pleasure and the honor of meeting 
> and talking to Peter and I can assure you that he is an extremely friendly, 
> gentle person, a true gentleman. With utmost regret would I want to see 
> him leave the list! 
> 
> He doesn't need anyone's help to make his point. He only mentions Anne 
> because she already stated quite clearly that such pictures should not be 
> presented on this list - they have nothing to do with meteorites. 
> 
> What Anne (who is, as most of you know, a native of France) and Peter 
> state is what and how most Europeans here feel about guns and weapons: 
> they are not toys! 
> 
> We should also be aware of those "subtle" differences between British and 
> American English. Maybe it's the different usage of certain words on both 
> sides of the Big Pond that caused this nasty situation. 
> 
> I am absolutely sure Peter did not intend to attack people as individuals. His 
> post was aimed at the light-headed way they fooled around with guns. Do not 
> forget that it is not only adults who see these pics. It's also children who might 
> feel like having to point a gun, maybe "only"an airgun, right at their friend's face! 
> 
> Best wishes, 
> 
> Bernd 


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 14:43:33 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:43:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Matters Arising(Real or Fake)
Message-ID: <918112.89924.qm@web113614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Dear List,
?
I see people have valid points on their take on GUNS. We all come from different walks of life, we have our own experiences, and from this image it shows. As to say the image does not relate to meteorites?is false for the mere fact meteorites are present in the image. Also this image?is posted while The Tucson Mineral and Gem show is taking place. Take that in consideration and one might infer?that this issue could take place with deals in their hotel rooms. If this images was done a few months before or after the Mineral and Gem show I would ask questions?of way. 
?
But I?can draw a hypotheses from the image which could suggest that meteorites are a high commodities and this situation could arise?with anyone dealing with meteorite in their hotel room in Tucson.?Lastly?is the gun real or fake?


?
Shawn Alan?
?
[meteorite-list] Matters Arising
Peter Davidson P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk 
Wed Feb 3 04:19:52 EST 2010 


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Dear Listees 

I have been a member of this list now for less than a year. In that time I have seen some almighty stushies (Scots word meaning rumpus or row) and debates as well as a mountain of information and the forging of some great new friendships. 

However the recent postings on guns and arms has seriously depressed and angered me, and if anything has come close to forcing me off the list, it is this. I never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing correspondence with "hicks" and "rednecks" or NRA sycophants and apologists. 

Anne (Black) I salute you. Your simple, straightforward words are my only comfort. :-( 

Peter Davidson 
Curator of Minerals 
? 
National Museums Collection Centre 
National Museums Scotland 
242 West Granton Road 
Edinburgh 
EH5 1JA 
Phone: +44?131 247 4283 
p.davidson at nms.ac.uk 
www.nms.ac.uk 
? 
? 

Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker 

National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 
This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. 





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?
[meteorite-list] Matters Arising
Erik Fisler erikfwebb at msn.com 
Wed Feb 3 08:54:14 EST 2010 


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Anyone who owns a fire arm must be a hick or redneck.? Nice one!? So 
clear, we didn't even have to assume what you meant.? It must be a 
terrible burden to "share correspondence" with them.?? 

I don't like when dealers gang up on each other, then again I do NOT read the threads when they do.? 

A possible solution Peter is that you can click delete the ones in your inbox related to that thread. 
OR if you read from the website, do not click on the links that follow 
the post that has a topic that might potentially ruffle your feathers.? 
This might be a mature solution. I do not want to force anything on you or take away your right to post what you want to post. 

Also: 
Next time you feel the need to announce something like this, try to model it something along the lines of this: 

Dear Listees 

I do not like the debate on guns. Bye. 

-Peter 

All I'm trying to point out is that your current style of writing makes you look like a sissy and a jerk. 
First you take a jab that gun owners are rednecks etc.. 
Then mention that you are so scared that you must be comforted by a grown woman. 
I seriously doubt either of those are true.? 

What you said in text is not what you meant.? The underhand message is bluntly rude. 
I would not want anyone to post saying "I never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing correspondence with 'pussies'". 

I look forward to seeing your posts on the list, and I don't mean posts like this one. 

[Erik] 


[meteorite-list] Matters Arising
bernd.pauli at paulinet.de bernd.pauli at paulinet.de 
Wed Feb 3 11:56:37 EST 2010 


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Hello Folks, 

Last year, in Ensisheim 2009, I had the pleasure and the honor of meeting 
and talking to Peter and I can assure you that he is an extremely friendly, 
gentle person, a true gentleman. With utmost regret would I want to see 
him leave the list! 

He doesn't need anyone's help to make his point. He only mentions Anne 
because she already stated quite clearly that such pictures should not be 
presented on this list - they have nothing to do with meteorites. 

What Anne (who is, as most of you know, a native of France) and Peter 
state is what and how most Europeans here feel about guns and weapons: 
they are not toys! 

We should also be aware of those "subtle" differences between British and 
American English. Maybe it's the different usage of certain words on both 
sides of the Big Pond that caused this nasty situation. 

I am absolutely sure Peter did not intend to attack people as individuals. His 
post was aimed at the light-headed way they fooled around with guns. Do not 
forget that it is not only adults who see these pics. It's also children who might 
feel like having to point a gun, maybe "only"an airgun, right at their friend's face! 

Best wishes, 

Bernd 

?
[meteorite-list] Matters Arising
David Pensenstadler dfpens01 at yahoo.com 
Wed Feb 3 13:49:41 EST 2010 


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I also think the Pic of the Day photos were in bad taste. I also own guns but would never think of taking or posting a picture like the ones shown. 

Dave 






From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Wed Feb  3 15:38:58 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:38:58 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising  - those rednecks !!!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <4B69CB53.2010407@lowcountry.com>
References: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF885@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>
	<4B69CB53.2010407@lowcountry.com>
Message-ID: <000101caa511$0026f2a0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>


Those rednecks even shoot meteorites!!!


Murchison and three brothers killed by Ranger Ames:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1164.pdf


The Chondrite Gang vaporized in gunfight:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2010/pdf/2442.pdf


What a gun....

http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/people/bios/aero/images/hffaf.gif


Now, Peter, you can stay.

?   ;-)

Martin





From dave at fallingrocks.com  Wed Feb  3 16:17:44 2010
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:17:44 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Was GUNS, now COSMIC BULLET
Message-ID: <FECFE88F5461460EB0B0448FEC9A3089@meteorroom>

Click the link at the end of Remarks for the latest abstract, which is very
well put to paper.  Presumably this will end the hypervelocity "debate"...?

http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/Carancas.htm

Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 



From fallingfusion at wi.rr.com  Wed Feb  3 13:45:54 2010
From: fallingfusion at wi.rr.com (fallingfusion at wi.rr.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:45:54 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W26EE5A7BA2ED5BD1A8A046A4560@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20100203184554.G7FI6.410090.root@cdptpa-web04-z01>

I am not exactly sure how this discussion got brought up on a meteorite email list (well actually, I do). But it is an important one, none the less. 

This is my personal opinion. If you don't agree, then please done reply, because I won't be. I am not pointing fingers (or guns)... at anyone in particular.  

I have no problem with someone exercising their right to bear arms. I do, however, have a problem with people that decide to do so in an irresponsible, immature manner. I cannot stress enough the importance of handling a weapon (loaded or not) in the proper manner. And I don't even own a gun.. just common sense. I also believe that NOBODY should be carrying a sidearm in public without the proper training. Even here in WI, anyone can go to a firearms dealer and purchase a gun without attending any formal training whatsoever... and to that, I don't necessarily agree. Perhaps my training and personal experience has lead me to be a bit more stern regarding this topic, but I have also heard countless additional first-hand experiences from those that are involved in law enforcement and firearms certification here in Milwaukee. They are tools that can terminate life immediately. 

Regards,

Ryan Pawelski

 

---- Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote: 
> 
> Anyone who owns a fire arm must be a hick or redneck.? Nice one!? So
> clear, we didn't even have to assume what you meant.? It must be a
> terrible burden to "share correspondence" with them.?? 
> 
> I don't like when dealers gang up on each other, then again I do NOT read the threads when they do.? 
> 
> A possible solution Peter is that you can click delete the ones in your inbox related to that thread.
> OR if you read from the website, do not click on the links that follow
> the post that has a topic that might potentially ruffle your feathers.?
> This might be a mature solution. I do not want to force anything on you or take away your right to post what you want to post.
> 
> Also:
> Next time you feel the need to announce something like this, try to model it something along the lines of this:
> 
> Dear Listees
> 
> I do not like the debate on guns. Bye.
> 
> -Peter
> 
> All I'm trying to point out is that your current style of writing makes you look like a sissy and a jerk.
> First you take a jab that gun owners are rednecks etc..
> Then mention that you are so scared that you must be comforted by a grown woman.
> I seriously doubt either of those are true.? 
> 
> What you said in text is not what you meant.? The underhand message is bluntly rude.
> I would not want anyone to post saying "I never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing correspondence with 'pussies'".
> 
> I look forward to seeing your posts on the list, and I don't mean posts like this one.
> 
> [Erik]
> 
> > Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:19:52 +0000
> > From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk
> > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
> > 
> > Dear Listees
> > 
> > I have been a member of this list now for less than a year. In that time I have seen some almighty stushies (Scots word meaning rumpus or row) and debates as well as a mountain of information and the forging of some great new friendships.
> > 
> > However the recent postings on guns and arms has seriously depressed and angered me, and if anything has come close to forcing me off the list, it is this. I never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing correspondence with "hicks" and "rednecks" or NRA sycophants and apologists.
> > 
> > Anne (Black) I salute you. Your simple, straightforward words are my only comfort. :-(
> > 
> > Peter Davidson
> > Curator of Minerals
> > ?
> > National Museums Collection Centre
> > National Museums Scotland
> > 242 West Granton Road
> > Edinburgh
> > EH5 1JA
> > Phone: +44?131 247 4283
> > p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
> > www.nms.ac.uk
> > ?
> > ?
> > 
> > Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker
> > 
> > National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
> > This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>  		 	   		  
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 18:01:54 2010
From: jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com (Jason Chadwick)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:01:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't let them take away your guns... meteorites
	will be next!
Message-ID: <291266.82831.qm@web114006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello,

My thoughts on the subject is that those were very stupid photographs. 

However, if they take your guns away, then most certainly they will take your meteorites next.

Jason


      



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Wed Feb  3 18:22:12 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:22:12 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Lots More Meteorite Added (Oriented Sculpted &
	Crusted)
Message-ID: <4B6A0524.7020505@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi List,

Here's my ad for the week.
http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tucson/

136.2g Lot of Taza Individuals - Flight Oriented Specimens & Sculpted 
Individuals
472g Lot of Crusted & very Aesthetic UNWA Stone Meteorites - CHERRY 
STONES! $149
1516g UNWA Meteorites - BIG Crusted Stones $318
609.7g Lot of Libyan Desert Glass - $2/g or $600 for the lot - Hand 
picked for color and clarity.
53.3 grams of Tamdakht Flight Oriented & Near Fully Fusion Crusted 
Meteorites - SOLD
NWA 869 ? Small, Medium & Large Stones ? 3 Lots totaling 2351g = $750
716.2g UNWA Meteorite Low Iron Polished End Cut - $300
329.8g UNWA Meteorite Low Iron Polished End Cut - $150
360g LOT of Oriented UNWA - $180
Spectacular 387g Flight Oriented Silicated Iron Meteorite with Fusion 
Crust and Knarly thumbprints - $2450 obo
2465g Lot of LARGE Hand Picked UNWA Stones (Great for Slicing) - $542
203.5g Lot of Nicely Crusted Part and Whole Stones! - $50
260g Lot f End Cuts - $75

Free shipping in the USA on orders over $100

Call 760-522-2152 or Email to order.
Deals are available of Larger orders.

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
www.meteoritesusa.com




From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Feb  3 18:34:22 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:34:22 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't let them take away your guns...
	meteorites will be next!
In-Reply-To: <291266.82831.qm@web114006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <291266.82831.qm@web114006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <uh1km595p5o3kj0nur6g1hrde2h3og5r28@4ax.com>

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:01:54 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>However, if they take your guns away, then most certainly they will take your meteorites next.
>

Will that be immediately next, or do you simply mean that meteorites are below
guns on the list of stuff that the government will take away?  For instance,
will the government take away my DVDs before or after my meteorites?  How about
my collection of vintage CPUs that I can't convince myself to throw away?  Could
you show me this list so that I could begin mentally composing myself for their
loss to the Orwellian government that is just biding their time until they can
break down my door and take arbitrary collectibles, held off only by patriotic,
god-fearing citizens always on alert to violently overthrow their elected
government if necessary?

I hope they come for my tin-foil hat last



From meteorites at online.nl  Wed Feb  3 19:37:03 2010
From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:37:03 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Park Forest complete indiv.
Message-ID: <5157431229DD4F81A9609BB89D119FF1@laptop>

Listoids,

I'm going to use my next week add already.

Park Forest. Complete individual (crusted) 13,5 grams. Such a sweet round 
pebble.
Purchased from Jason "Rocks from Heaven" Phillips right after impact.

Not sure what Park Forest is worth these days so make an offer.

The Gao beautifull oriented 134 gr. piece posted yesterday is reduced from 
$600 to $500 and will be the bottom price.


Contact me for pictures from the Gao and Park Forest off list please.

Best,
Jan
Holland.
IMCA 9833 



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Wed Feb  3 19:38:18 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:38:18 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball Over Ireland
Message-ID: <4B6A16FA.9080204@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi List,

http://www.universetoday.com/2010/02/03/huge-fireball-reported-over-ireland/

?A major explosion happened in the sky over Ireland. We think it?s a 
fireball, that?s a rock from space the earth has slammed into and they 
burn up as huge shooting stars. This one appears to have lit up the 
whole country. The phones here in Astronomy Ireland are going crazy.? 
SOURCE - 
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0203/breaking85.htm

IrishAstronomy.org - 
http://www.irishastronomy.org/cms/forum?func=view&catid=11&id=83520#83539

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0203/meteorite.html

Enjoy...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Wed Feb  3 20:05:12 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:05:12 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
In-Reply-To: <20100203184554.G7FI6.410090.root@cdptpa-web04-z01>
Message-ID: <20100204011017.6857F105DA@mailwash5.pair.com>

Ok everybody.  That's enough with the gun talk, or how you "feel" about
them, or your "opinions" regarding guns, etc.  Your opinions about guns DO
NOT belong on this list (even if there is a meteorite or Meteorite Men in
the photo), just like other political beliefs, religious beliefs, etc don't
belong on the list.  If someone wants to know my opinion regarding guns,
send me a private e-mail (NOT ON THE LIST). I'm sure nobody will do that
because 99% of us on this list DO NOT CARE how others feel about guns.
Let's just talk about meteorites.  Period.

Thanks!

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
fallingfusion at wi.rr.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:46 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising

I am not exactly sure how this discussion got brought up on a meteorite
email list (well actually, I do). But it is an important one, none the less.


This is my personal opinion. If you don't agree, then please done reply,
because I won't be. I am not pointing fingers (or guns)... at anyone in
particular.  

I have no problem with someone exercising their right to bear arms. I do,
however, have a problem with people that decide to do so in an
irresponsible, immature manner. I cannot stress enough the importance of
handling a weapon (loaded or not) in the proper manner. And I don't even own
a gun.. just common sense. I also believe that NOBODY should be carrying a
sidearm in public without the proper training. Even here in WI, anyone can
go to a firearms dealer and purchase a gun without attending any formal
training whatsoever... and to that, I don't necessarily agree. Perhaps my
training and personal experience has lead me to be a bit more stern
regarding this topic, but I have also heard countless additional first-hand
experiences from those that are involved in law enforcement and firearms
certification here in Milwaukee. They are tools that can terminate life
immediately. 

Regards,

Ryan Pawelski

 

---- Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote: 
> 
> Anyone who owns a fire arm must be a hick or redneck.? Nice one!? So
> clear, we didn't even have to assume what you meant.? It must be a
> terrible burden to "share correspondence" with them.?? 
> 
> I don't like when dealers gang up on each other, then again I do NOT read
the threads when they do.? 
> 
> A possible solution Peter is that you can click delete the ones in your
inbox related to that thread.
> OR if you read from the website, do not click on the links that follow
> the post that has a topic that might potentially ruffle your feathers.?
> This might be a mature solution. I do not want to force anything on you or
take away your right to post what you want to post.
> 
> Also:
> Next time you feel the need to announce something like this, try to model
it something along the lines of this:
> 
> Dear Listees
> 
> I do not like the debate on guns. Bye.
> 
> -Peter
> 
> All I'm trying to point out is that your current style of writing makes
you look like a sissy and a jerk.
> First you take a jab that gun owners are rednecks etc..
> Then mention that you are so scared that you must be comforted by a grown
woman.
> I seriously doubt either of those are true.? 
> 
> What you said in text is not what you meant.? The underhand message is
bluntly rude.
> I would not want anyone to post saying "I never thought I would see the
day when I would be sharing correspondence with 'pussies'".
> 
> I look forward to seeing your posts on the list, and I don't mean posts
like this one.
> 
> [Erik]
> 
> > Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:19:52 +0000
> > From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk
> > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
> > 
> > Dear Listees
> > 
> > I have been a member of this list now for less than a year. In that time
I have seen some almighty stushies (Scots word meaning rumpus or row) and
debates as well as a mountain of information and the forging of some great
new friendships.
> > 
> > However the recent postings on guns and arms has seriously depressed and
angered me, and if anything has come close to forcing me off the list, it is
this. I never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing
correspondence with "hicks" and "rednecks" or NRA sycophants and apologists.
> > 
> > Anne (Black) I salute you. Your simple, straightforward words are my
only comfort. :-(
> > 
> > Peter Davidson
> > Curator of Minerals
> > ?
> > National Museums Collection Centre
> > National Museums Scotland
> > 242 West Granton Road
> > Edinburgh
> > EH5 1JA
> > Phone: +44?131 247 4283
> > p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
> > www.nms.ac.uk
> > ?
> > ?
> > 
> > Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National
Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker
> > 
> > National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
> > This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not
the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your
system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums
Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and
Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any
harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>  		 	   		  
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 02/03/10
01:09:00



From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Wed Feb  3 20:13:34 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:13:34 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] dubious 'iron' on e-bay
In-Reply-To: <177122B429DD4D1880D4107C33947300@LintoniusLaptop>
Message-ID: <20100204011336.774F610589@mailwash5.pair.com>

Hi Linton,

I'm not an expert, and the pictures are small as you said, but I would agree
with you that it's just a big chunk of slag.  

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Linton
Rohr
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:39 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] dubious 'iron' on e-bay

Good day list,
I've been searching for meteorites from Utah on e-bay for quite some time, 
and an ad came up a few days  ago for an alleged iron.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110487777840&ssPageName=S
TRK:MEWAX:IT
The seller clearly doesn't know what he's talking about (not that I'm all 
that knowledgable). His grandfather found the 'rock', but apparently no 
testing or analysis was ever done. To me, it looks like some kind of manmade

material, slag perhaps. But the photos don't blow up and I can't discern any

detail. Would anyone care to share an opinion? I'd appreciate it.
Linton - thoroughly enjoying Tucson! 

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 02/03/10
01:09:00



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Feb  3 20:17:20 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:17:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - February 3, 2010
Message-ID: <201002040117.o141HKMk010727@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
February 3, 2010

o Central Uplifted Region of Crater in Phlegra Dorsa
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010888_203

o Mojave Crater Floor and Central Uplift
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_002101_1875

o Frost Patch and Dunes in a Northern Hemisphere Crater
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001700_2505

o Layered Deposits in Terby Crater
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001662_1520

o Frost-Covered Dunes in the North Polar Region
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001660_2570


All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.



From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Wed Feb  3 20:18:59 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:18:59 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Was GUNS, now COSMIC BULLET
In-Reply-To: <FECFE88F5461460EB0B0448FEC9A3089@meteorroom>
Message-ID: <20100204011901.7959D105AD@mailwash5.pair.com>

Very cool, Dave!  That's an awesome specimen.  It makes my 1.4 gram specimen
look like a wimp.  Now I'm depressed.  ......  :-)

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Gheesling
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 2:18 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Was GUNS, now COSMIC BULLET

Click the link at the end of Remarks for the latest abstract, which is very
well put to paper.  Presumably this will end the hypervelocity "debate"...?

http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/Carancas.htm

Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 02/03/10
01:09:00



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Feb  3 20:23:46 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:23:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Yields Carbon Crystals Harder Than
	Diamond
Message-ID: <201002040123.o141Nk1x011759@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.physorg.com/news184402061.html    

Meteorite yields carbon crystals harder than diamond
by Lin Edwards
physorg.com
February 3, 2010 

(PhysOrg.com) -- Two new types of ultra-hard carbon crystals have been
found by researchers investigating the ureilite class Haver? meteorite
that crashed to Earth in Finland in 1971. Ureilite meteorites are
carbon-rich and known to contain graphite and diamonds.

The super-hard diamonds were created when graphite in the meteorite
experienced the intense heat and pressure of entering the Earth's 
atmosphere and crashing into the ground. The graphite layers would 
have been heated and shocked enough to create bonds between them, in 
much the same way as humans manufacture
diamonds.

The new carbon crystals were too small to test for precise hardness but
they are known to be harder than normal diamonds because the researchers
found them by using a diamond paste to polish a slice of the meteorite.
The crystals were raised more than 10 ?m above the polished surface,
which meant they were harder than the diamonds in the polishing paste.
The researchers had seen carbon crystals that resisted the diamond
polishing in one direction before, but the new crystals were unaffected
when polished in every direction.

The scientists then used an array of mineralogical instruments,
including microscopy, spectroscopy and energy-dispersive X-rays among
others, to study the structure of the crystals. This allowed them to
identify them as representing two new carbon polymorphs or diamond
polytypes.

One is an ultra-hard rhombohedral carbon polymorph similar to diamond,
while the other is a 21R diamond polytype ultra-hard diamond. The
existence of ultra-hard diamonds had been predicted decades ago, but
they have never before been found in nature. The novel form consists of
fused graphite sheets similar to artificial diamond.

Professor Tristan Ferroir, leader of the research team from the
Universit? de Lyon in France, said the discovery was accidental, but
they had thought an examination of the meteorite would "lead to new
findings on the carbon system."

Professor Ferroir said there is currently no way to compare the
structure of the new crystals to boron nitride and lonsdaleite, the 
artificially manufactured ultra-hard diamonds, but the findings help 
scientists gain a better understanding of carbon polymorphs and give 
them new materials to investigate and perhaps synthesize. They also 
show the carbon system is more complex than previously thought.

The findings on the new diamond were published in the Earth and
Planetary Science Letters journal on February 15.

More information:* http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.epsl.2009.12.015


From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Wed Feb  3 20:25:25 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:25:25 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Historic meteorite scale cube?
In-Reply-To: <11fe7.732debf.389776a9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20100204012534.5940610627@mailwash5.pair.com>

Hi Tom,

I like your idea and it does look like an old wooden scale cube.

List, does anyone have an aluminum scale cube that is in very good condition
that they would like to sell?  I already have a bronze cube and a tungsten
carbide cube.

Thanks and regards,

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 5:13 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Historic meteorite scale cube?

Hi list,  Indulge me on this  one.   I still have scale cube envy over 
ordering my cube from Jeff a  few seconds too late to get the lowest number!

His are the best I have  seen and I am not trying to better those perfect 
cubes.  I treasure my #14  cube!

That said, It is snowing up here in Idaho and there is not much to  do.  I 
made some old looking wood scale cubes to go with historic  falls.  Perhaps 
it is a dumb idea but I put one on eBay at $1 to see if  there is any
demand.


Check it out at  
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260546460569&ssPageName=S
TRK:MESELX:IT

Thanks  for looking.

Tom Phillips     STARSINTHEDIRT  


Please let me know what you think
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12:35:00



From dave at fallingrocks.com  Wed Feb  3 20:30:24 2010
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:30:24 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Was GUNS, now COSMIC BULLET
In-Reply-To: <20100204011901.7959D105AD@mailwash5.pair.com>
References: <FECFE88F5461460EB0B0448FEC9A3089@meteorroom>
	<20100204011901.7959D105AD@mailwash5.pair.com>
Message-ID: <C06828C1EB274E3DAF7127419BBC1DAC@meteorroom>

Thanks Bob...but the post wasn't meant to be about the meteorite or
collection page at all.  I don't know if you've followed the back-and-forth
re: whether or not Carancas was hypervelocity, but the new abstract (linked
to at the bottom of the Remarks section) pretty much nails that down.  Great
paper... 

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Loeffler
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:19 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Was GUNS, now COSMIC BULLET

Very cool, Dave!  That's an awesome specimen.  It makes my 1.4 gram specimen
look like a wimp.  Now I'm depressed.  ......  :-)

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Gheesling
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 2:18 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Was GUNS, now COSMIC BULLET

Click the link at the end of Remarks for the latest abstract, which is very
well put to paper.  Presumably this will end the hypervelocity "debate"...?

http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/Carancas.htm

Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 

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From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 20:28:41 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:28:41 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Historic meteorite scale cube?
In-Reply-To: <20100204012534.5940610627@mailwash5.pair.com>
References: <11fe7.732debf.389776a9@aol.com>
	<20100204012534.5940610627@mailwash5.pair.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002031728m954c31cx4304073b7c796357@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bob, Tom and  List -

I think Tom's scale cube is a great idea and I hope he makes more,
because I got heavily outbid on it. LOL

Tom - if you can crank those things out in quantity, you might have a
money-maker on your hands.

Best regards,

MikeG


On 2/3/10, Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com> wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> I like your idea and it does look like an old wooden scale cube.
>
> List, does anyone have an aluminum scale cube that is in very good condition
> that they would like to sell?  I already have a bronze cube and a tungsten
> carbide cube.
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 5:13 PM
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Historic meteorite scale cube?
>
> Hi list,  Indulge me on this  one.   I still have scale cube envy over
> ordering my cube from Jeff a  few seconds too late to get the lowest number!
>
> His are the best I have  seen and I am not trying to better those perfect
> cubes.  I treasure my #14  cube!
>
> That said, It is snowing up here in Idaho and there is not much to  do.  I
> made some old looking wood scale cubes to go with historic  falls.  Perhaps
> it is a dumb idea but I put one on eBay at $1 to see if  there is any
> demand.
>
>
> Check it out at
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260546460569&ssPageName=S
> TRK:MESELX:IT
>
> Thanks  for looking.
>
> Tom Phillips     STARSINTHEDIRT
>
>
> Please let me know what you think
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 02/02/10
> 12:35:00
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Wed Feb  3 20:34:36 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:34:36 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteor Storm" on Syfy
In-Reply-To: <6E038AF27E724806B3BD7E8180E023A8@owner55652f88b>
Message-ID: <20100204013438.0657B10560@mailwash5.pair.com>

Hi Kirk,

Yeah, I guess the movie was a little bit entertaining, and that's why they
made it.  I just wish they would make them more accurate.  A little bit of
"artistic license" is fine, but most movies these days are waaaaaaaay off.
:-)  But, as long as they keep making movies (and TV shows) about
meteors/meteorites, I shouldn't complain too loudly.  Speaking of TV shows,
Meteorite Men is on again tonight (Science Channel on cable/satellite).
Time to pop the popcorn and grab a beer!  Just kidding.  I don't like
popcorn.  ;-)

Regards,

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Becky and
Kirk
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 9:46 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Meteor Storm" on Syfy

The movie was at least entertaining---to a certain degree.
No accuracy was really expected----was it??

Kirk......:-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Loeffler" <bobl at peaktopeak.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Meteor Storm" on Syfy


> My favorite from the 70's was "A Fire in the Sky" from 1978 (not the 
> crappy
> ET movie with the same name from 1993 with DB Sweeney).  It had Richard
> Crenna and Merlin Olson in it.  See here:
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077553/  Not a great cast, but I think I 
> liked
> it because (1) it was about a comet that was going to hit Phoenix... and 
> I'm
> from Phoenix, (2) it actually hit Phoenix in the movie... instead of being
> blown up by nuclear warheads just before entering the atmosphere, and (3) 
> I
> was only 10 years old at the time... so it was believable.  If I saw it
> again today, I might not like it as much.  :-)
>
> Anyway, I did see "Meteor Storm" last night on SyFy and it was as bad as I
> expected.  I haven't seen a good movie on SyFy in years... but for some 
> odd
> reason, I still flip the channel to it, just in case they might have a 
> good
> movie for once.  I loved it when the lady said that the meteorites were 
> the
> size of bullets (when she was on Alcatraz Island), but 10 seconds earlier
> when she had one in her hand and was studying it, it was about the size of
> her fist.  :-)  And even though the meteorites were supposed to be small,
> they would take out 3 floors of an office or apartment building when they
> hit, yet impacts to people or the ground caused holes that were just a few
> inches in diameter.  As expected, the special effects were horrible,
> especially the flames from the Aries rocket that they launched at the end 
> of
> the movie.  The flames looked like they were made on an old PC computer
> using CGA (not CGI) EGA graphics.  Instead of a smooth progression from 
> one
> color to another, you could see a definite yellow area, then a definite
> orange area, etc.  At least the acting wasn't horrible.  Not great, but 
> not
> the worst I've seen.
>
> It was just another really bad movie that won't help the education of
> humanity. But, obviously, it was only meant for mindless entertainment.
> Mindless?  Yes.  Entertainment?  I'm not sure about that.  :-)
>
> But, there was at least one thing that I think was good.  The big asteroid
> that was going to hit at the end of the movie was called Apophis, which is

> a
> real NEO (near Earth object). Good for them. There was one other good 
> thing,
> but I can't remember it.  Sorry.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu
> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 5:37 AM
> To: Walter Branch
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Meteor Storm" on Syfy
>
> Walter:
>
> They also had "Meteor" on (1979), which predates all the disasteroid
> movies that came out at the time of Shoemaker-Levy 9.
>
> Not quite as bad a movie, but not the bast in the world given it cast:
>
> Sean Connery (Bond, James Bond)
> Karl Malden
>
> those famous Russian actors
> Natalie Wood and Brian Keith
>
> many more famous actors
>
> and a cast of thousands (at least hundreds) as it includes all those
> people in "red shirts" that you know are going to die.
>
> All of these gems for now quite so good science.
>
> It has been a while since I have seen it, but now have nice copies of them
> that I can bring to class.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>> They had a movie called Asteroid on earlier today.  That one is a real
>> keeper as well.  I love it when rocks just explode into huge fireballs on
>> impact with the ground :-)
>>
>> -Walter Branch
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu>
>> To: "Elizabeth Warner" <warnerem at astro.umd.edu>
>> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Meteor Storm" on Syfy
>>
>>
>>> Thanks for the link. It is on in 20 minutes (10:00 here in Tucson). It
>>> looks like a "gem," something that I can use in my class as an example
>>> of
>>> what is wrong with this scene?
>>>
>>> Larry
>>>
>>>> So, anyone else watching this masterpiece on Syfy?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.apocalypticmovies.com/tag/meteor-storm/
>>>>
>
http://www.sfuniverse.com/2010/01/29/michael-trucco-talks-battlestar-big-ban
> g-and-one-huge-meteor-storm/
>>>>
>>>> Clear Skies!
>>>> Elizabeth
>
> ______________________________________________
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> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

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23:39:00



From Metorman46 at aol.com  Wed Feb  3 20:37:25 2010
From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:37:25 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
Message-ID: <1c461.3d9fdf84.389b7ed5@aol.com>

List;
 
I personally liked the picture,and the fact that Blaine had enough sense to 
 hand over the meteorite while Geoff seemed to be soiling himself is a good 
 representation of the fear that a firearm can create,no matter who owns 
one or  how they believe about firearms.
 
Firearms are serious business and i am glad that the picture was only a  
stunt by some great meteorite dealers/hunters and an anonymous young and  
beautiful cowgirl type that can hold a pistol with very much authority and  
grace.
 
I am glad the dealers are having a great time in tucson and hope all goes  
well with everyone there.Maybe they will catch the meteorite bandit before 
they  leave.
 
Best wishes to all list members; Herman Archer IMCA #  2770


From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Wed Feb  3 20:48:05 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:48:05 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Was GUNS, now COSMIC BULLET
In-Reply-To: <C06828C1EB274E3DAF7127419BBC1DAC@meteorroom>
Message-ID: <20100204014807.B9BDD1053E@mailwash5.pair.com>

Yeah, I know.  :-)  But it's still an awesome meteorite.  I'll read the
abstract.

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Gheesling [mailto:dave at fallingrocks.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:30 PM
To: 'Bob Loeffler'; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Was GUNS, now COSMIC BULLET

Thanks Bob...but the post wasn't meant to be about the meteorite or
collection page at all.  I don't know if you've followed the back-and-forth
re: whether or not Carancas was hypervelocity, but the new abstract (linked
to at the bottom of the Remarks section) pretty much nails that down.  Great
paper... 

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Loeffler
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:19 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Was GUNS, now COSMIC BULLET

Very cool, Dave!  That's an awesome specimen.  It makes my 1.4 gram specimen
look like a wimp.  Now I'm depressed.  ......  :-)

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Gheesling
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 2:18 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Was GUNS, now COSMIC BULLET

Click the link at the end of Remarks for the latest abstract, which is very
well put to paper.  Presumably this will end the hypervelocity "debate"...?

http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/Carancas.htm

Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 

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12:35:00



From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Wed Feb  3 21:24:56 2010
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:24:56 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Yields Carbon Crystals Harder Than
	Diamond
Message-ID: <1dc14.51d5eadb.389b89f8@aol.com>


Hi list,  This is off topic (sort of)  to  this very interesting post but 
it 
does mention graphite and  diamonds.   

I have shared this observation before and every  time I have mentioned it  
I 
have been taken wrong!  Has any else  noticed how the graphite inclusions  
in the fossil EL3, NWA 2828, 2965,  Al Haggounia 001 etc. fool an 
electronic  
diamond tester?

Now  this is the part I have been taken wrong on, I'm not  saying I have  
found testable size diamonds but rather the graphite will set off  an  
electronic diamond tester!  Those testers operate on thermal   
conductivity.  

I can take my optical scopes to 2000X but that is  no  help in this stuff.

I have tried similar inclusions in other  meteorites  and nothing.  Is the 
inclusion made of nano diamonds  or just a material  that is as thermally 
conductive as  diamonds?   Which ever, it is  interesting!

Tom  Phillips

In a message dated 2/3/2010 6:23:57 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,  baalke
@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  writes:

http://www.physorg.com/news184402061.html     

Meteorite yields carbon crystals harder than diamond
by Lin  Edwards
physorg.com
February 3, 2010 

(PhysOrg.com) -- Two new  types of ultra-hard carbon crystals have been
found by researchers  investigating the ureilite class Haver? meteorite
that crashed to Earth in  Finland in 1971. Ureilite meteorites are
carbon-rich and known to contain  graphite and diamonds.

The super-hard diamonds were created when graphite  in the meteorite
experienced the intense heat and pressure of entering the  Earth's 
atmosphere and crashing into the ground. The graphite layers would  
have been heated and shocked enough to create bonds between them, in  
much the same way as humans manufacture
diamonds.

The new carbon  crystals were too small to test for precise hardness but
they are known to be  harder than normal diamonds because the researchers
found them by using a  diamond paste to polish a slice of the meteorite.
The crystals were raised  more than 10 ?m above the polished surface,
which meant they were harder than  the diamonds in the polishing paste.
The researchers had seen carbon crystals  that resisted the diamond
polishing in one direction before, but the new  crystals were unaffected
when polished in every direction.

The  scientists then used an array of mineralogical instruments,
including  microscopy, spectroscopy and energy-dispersive X-rays among
others, to study  the structure of the crystals. This allowed them to
identify them as  representing two new carbon polymorphs or diamond
polytypes.

One is an  ultra-hard rhombohedral carbon polymorph similar to diamond,
while the other  is a 21R diamond polytype ultra-hard diamond. The
existence of ultra-hard  diamonds had been predicted decades ago, but
they have never before been  found in nature. The novel form consists of
fused graphite sheets similar to  artificial diamond.

Professor Tristan Ferroir, leader of the research  team from the
Universit? de Lyon in France, said the discovery was  accidental, but
they had thought an examination of the meteorite would "lead  to new
findings on the carbon system."

Professor Ferroir said there is  currently no way to compare the
structure of the new crystals to boron  nitride and lonsdaleite, the 
artificially manufactured ultra-hard diamonds,  but the findings help 
scientists gain a better understanding of carbon  polymorphs and give 
them new materials to investigate and perhaps  synthesize. They also 
show the carbon system is more complex than previously  thought.

The findings on the new diamond were published in the Earth  and
Planetary Science Letters journal on February 15.

More  information:*  http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.epsl.2009.12.015
______________________________________________
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From geeg48 at msn.com  Wed Feb  3 21:40:07 2010
From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:40:07 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising.
Message-ID: <BLU125-W8E34A7F3282364EE3E6C0C9550@phx.gbl>



  I'm sorry folks, but some of you need to get a life.  That photo was just plain fun.  The last thing any of those folks in the photo (I only recognized Geoff Notkin) had in mind was to start this.  Really....what a pantload!    
 
  Yes, I live in Arizona...yes, you're allowed to carry a weapon in Arizona...yes, I've lived around guns my whole life...yes I own several of them....yes, I enjoy shooting them...yes, I understand gun safety rules and I wouldn't point a weapon at anything I didn't intend to shoot, but PLEASE!
 
  I don't think the objections to the photo had anything to do with "gun safety".  I think it had more to do with a mindset that is basically anti-gun.  It's as if having a gun in the same photo that has a meteorite in it somehow taints the meteorite and the people in it.  PLEASE!  It's hard to tell from the photo whether it's a real weapon or not.  I wish that it had been a bright "day glow" green, plastic squirt gun, but you know what, I still think that objections would still have been be raised.  Like I said, this all has to do with a certain mindset.  Period. 		 	   		  

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 22:12:36 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:12:36 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Geoff and Steve's new iron find
Message-ID: <e51421551002031912x68bbe60ei830f89d8dc5224b2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List (and specifically Geoff and Steve) -

After watching tonight's new episode of Meteorite Men, I am wondering
- what will be the name of this new iron find?  And is there any word
on it's type yet?  I couldn't really tell what the widmanstatten
pattern looked like from the glimpses I got on TV.  I love to see a
new American fine-octahedrite or ataxite find.

Congratulations on the new find - and better luck next time with the
enigmatic Ring.

Best regardfs and happy huntings,

MikeG



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Wed Feb  3 22:15:00 2010
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:15:00 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising.  When in Rome!
Message-ID: <1f15b.2ca09715.389b95b4@aol.com>

Hi List,  This is the first time I have  chimed in on one of these rants 
but here goes:

The biggest mistake was  not the photo!  Heck, tourists love fake stage 
coach hold ups staged all  over Arizona.  They even have one in Knot's Berry 
Farm in California.   The photo was just for fun.

The mistake that flipped switches was the  stereo type insult to gun 
owners/users.  That was a "Bad Post" and should  be apologized for!   Martin 
joined in, prior to the slam, in a light  hearted observation of the photo 
situation and I felt the post that started all  this was a slam to him as well.

I have cut and polished meteorites with  Martin.  During those visits we 
have occasionally practiced with  guns.  I must say that as meticulous as he 
is with meteorite matters he is  with guns. 

With his Glock he is an amazing shot!   ( I even  suspected professional 
competition!) Once again, every thing is meticulous with  him.  Absolute 
safety!!!

I am not typical in any way either.  I  like assault rifles but then again, 
I have hundreds and hundreds of acres to  shoot them on.  I do not hunt.  
This winter I spent more on 55 gal  drums of wheat than on meteorites.  We 
are reestablishing wild turkey in  the area and for a time they need a little 
help.

Last week hunters had a  cougar up a tree with hounds on my land.  I took 
pictures and made them let  it go.  (Email me for photos, I'm there with 
Daisy the "old girl"  hound.)

My point is some what an agreement with every one.  We have  cultural 
differences so don't condemn and stereo type a culture you are a  visitor in!!!

I like Kentucky Bourbon, but I don't slam German  Octoberfest participants 
for drinking too much beer! 

The photo was just  giving the many tourists what they want.  The 
condescending, superior  sounding email post was poison, and worse, was designed to  
be!

Tom

In a message dated 2/3/2010 7:40:18 P.M. Mountain Standard  Time, 
geeg48 at msn.com writes:


I'm sorry folks, but some of you  need to get a life.  That photo was just 
plain fun.  The last thing  any of those folks in the photo (I only 
recognized Geoff Notkin) had in mind was  to start this.  Really....what a pantload! 
   

Yes, I live in Arizona...yes, you're allowed to carry a weapon in 
Arizona...yes,  I've lived around guns my whole life...yes I own several of 
them....yes, I enjoy  shooting them...yes, I understand gun safety rules and I 
wouldn't point a weapon  at anything I didn't intend to shoot, but PLEASE!

I don't think  the objections to the photo had anything to do with "gun 
safety".  I think  it had more to do with a mindset that is basically anti-gun. 
 It's as if  having a gun in the same photo that has a meteorite in it 
somehow taints the  meteorite and the people in it.  PLEASE!  It's hard to tell 
from the  photo whether it's a real weapon or not.  I wish that it had been 
a bright  "day glow" green, plastic squirt gun, but you know what, I still 
think that  objections would still have been be raised.  Like I said, this 
all has to  do with a certain mindset.   Period.                     
______________________________________________
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http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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From mhammergren at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 22:46:00 2010
From: mhammergren at yahoo.com (Mark Hammergren)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:46:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Friday talk on Almahata Sitta in Tucson
Message-ID: <181772.60640.qm@web180301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Dear Listees,

Back in December, I had the good fortune to participate in an expedition to the Almahata Sitta strewnfield, as well as present my research at an international conference on those meteorites and asteroid 2008 TC3 at the University of Khartoum. It was an amazing experience.

This Friday, February 5, at the NOAO headquarters in Tucson, I will be giving a lunchtime talk from 12:00-12:30 about the expedition. These talks are generally not advertised to the public due to limited space, but I'd like to invite any of you who might be interested to attend. We can probably accommodate up to ten extra visitors, so please email me offlist to reserve a spot. (If you do attend, please plan to stick around for the second half hour talk, by Quentin Parker of Macquarie University, entitled "Bangers and Mash: New light on old stars.")

Best regards! Hope to see many of you in Tucson,

Mark Hammergren



From ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 23:03:59 2010
From: ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com (Robert Ward)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:03:59 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
Message-ID: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>

I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
"morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward


From John at Cabassi.net  Wed Feb  3 23:23:42 2010
From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:23:42 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Historic meteorite scale cube?
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002031728m954c31cx4304073b7c796357@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001caa551$d5f5a4e0$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2>

G'Day List
Tom's cubes are awesome. They really look nostalgic. If you're putting
up a display, especially with historical meteorites .. These cubes would
be the way to go. Excellent job. I hope the museums don't harass you too
much.

Cheers
John

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:29 PM
To: Bob Loeffler
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Historic meteorite scale cube?


Hi Bob, Tom and  List -

I think Tom's scale cube is a great idea and I hope he makes more,
because I got heavily outbid on it. LOL

Tom - if you can crank those things out in quantity, you might have a
money-maker on your hands.

Best regards,

MikeG


On 2/3/10, Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com> wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> I like your idea and it does look like an old wooden scale cube.
>
> List, does anyone have an aluminum scale cube that is in very good 
> condition that they would like to sell?  I already have a bronze cube 
> and a tungsten carbide cube.
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of 
> STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 5:13 PM
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Historic meteorite scale cube?
>
> Hi list,  Indulge me on this  one.   I still have scale cube envy over
> ordering my cube from Jeff a  few seconds too late to get the lowest 
> number!
>
> His are the best I have  seen and I am not trying to better those 
> perfect cubes.  I treasure my #14  cube!
>
> That said, It is snowing up here in Idaho and there is not much to  
> do.  I made some old looking wood scale cubes to go with historic  
> falls.  Perhaps it is a dumb idea but I put one on eBay at $1 to see 
> if  there is any demand.
>
>
> Check it out at 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260546460569&ssPage
> Name=S
> TRK:MESELX:IT
>
> Thanks  for looking.
>
> Tom Phillips     STARSINTHEDIRT
>
>
> Please let me know what you think 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 
> 02/02/10 12:35:00
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From John at Cabassi.net  Wed Feb  3 23:25:06 2010
From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:25:06 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising.  When in Rome!
In-Reply-To: <1f15b.2ca09715.389b95b4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000101caa552$086fdad0$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2>

G'Day List
Well bloody hell, a simple one liner as an aussie joke causing such an
uprising is amazing. Well not exactly, with the met list, you plant a
seed and a hundred run in with a watering can full of miracle grow to
see who can make it grow the fastest. My comment about sidearms was the
first thing that came to my mind after many visits to Arizona, either
nugget shooting or meteorite hunting. I was amazed at the amount of
people wearing sidearms, knowing that our privilege in Australia has
been squashed just like the distribution of meteorites in Australia has
been squashed.   But just on the Arizona aspect, deserts are dangerous,
be it wildlife or humans. I could get into a huge rant over all this,
but I'm not going to waste the list's time.

I would just like to apologize to all on both sides of this discussion.
I feel it was all in jest and the pictures being posted of guns were all
staged. I think all have the common sense to conduct themselves in a
responsible manner. If you take a close look at the image with the young
sheila and Geoff Notkin; it was totally staged and definitely not
pointed in anyone's direction. Ahh, the way people interpret pictures
and movies.

So as Mark stated, a white flag. He's right, there's no reason for this.
It was a little bit of fun and damn, we all need a little bit of fun
these days.

So to finish off, I wish everyone coming from all areas of the Earth to
Arizona for the Tucson show a fun loving event, lots of bargains and
many friends with good memories. Once again, for the 3rd year, I can't
get there. Now if anything sucks, that does.

Cheers
John

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:15 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising. When in Rome!


Hi List,  This is the first time I have  chimed in on one of these rants

but here goes:

The biggest mistake was  not the photo!  Heck, tourists love fake stage 
coach hold ups staged all  over Arizona.  They even have one in Knot's
Berry 
Farm in California.   The photo was just for fun.

The mistake that flipped switches was the  stereo type insult to gun 
owners/users.  That was a "Bad Post" and should  be apologized for!
Martin 
joined in, prior to the slam, in a light  hearted observation of the
photo 
situation and I felt the post that started all  this was a slam to him
as well.

I have cut and polished meteorites with  Martin.  During those visits we

have occasionally practiced with  guns.  I must say that as meticulous
as he 
is with meteorite matters he is  with guns. 

With his Glock he is an amazing shot!   ( I even  suspected professional

competition!) Once again, every thing is meticulous with  him.  Absolute

safety!!!

I am not typical in any way either.  I  like assault rifles but then
again, 
I have hundreds and hundreds of acres to  shoot them on.  I do not hunt.

This winter I spent more on 55 gal  drums of wheat than on meteorites.
We 
are reestablishing wild turkey in  the area and for a time they need a
little 
help.

Last week hunters had a  cougar up a tree with hounds on my land.  I
took 
pictures and made them let  it go.  (Email me for photos, I'm there with

Daisy the "old girl"  hound.)

My point is some what an agreement with every one.  We have  cultural 
differences so don't condemn and stereo type a culture you are a
visitor in!!!

I like Kentucky Bourbon, but I don't slam German  Octoberfest
participants 
for drinking too much beer! 

The photo was just  giving the many tourists what they want.  The 
condescending, superior  sounding email post was poison, and worse, was
designed to  
be!

Tom

In a message dated 2/3/2010 7:40:18 P.M. Mountain Standard  Time, 
geeg48 at msn.com writes:


I'm sorry folks, but some of you  need to get a life.  That photo was
just 
plain fun.  The last thing  any of those folks in the photo (I only 
recognized Geoff Notkin) had in mind was  to start this.  Really....what
a pantload! 
   

Yes, I live in Arizona...yes, you're allowed to carry a weapon in 
Arizona...yes,  I've lived around guns my whole life...yes I own several
of 
them....yes, I enjoy  shooting them...yes, I understand gun safety rules
and I 
wouldn't point a weapon  at anything I didn't intend to shoot, but
PLEASE!

I don't think  the objections to the photo had anything to do with "gun 
safety".  I think  it had more to do with a mindset that is basically
anti-gun. 
 It's as if  having a gun in the same photo that has a meteorite in it 
somehow taints the  meteorite and the people in it.  PLEASE!  It's hard
to tell 
from the  photo whether it's a real weapon or not.  I wish that it had
been 
a bright  "day glow" green, plastic squirt gun, but you know what, I
still 
think that  objections would still have been be raised.  Like I said,
this 
all has to  do with a certain mindset.   Period.                     
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at  
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list  mailing  list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list   

______________________________________________
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http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From freequarks at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 23:32:07 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:32:07 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising. When in Rome!
In-Reply-To: <1f15b.2ca09715.389b95b4@aol.com>
References: <1f15b.2ca09715.389b95b4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a1002032032h12dc1d22v95c263855c45c132@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tom,

Well, now I'm really in trouble.

I was reading your post thinking about those good old days polishing
meteorites under the blue Idaho sky, taking breaks to cover your porch
ankle-deep in brass, and I started to laugh.

"Whatcha laughing about dear?" My wife asks. So I started to read your
email out loud and she stops me. "You did what?"

You see, up until know, she probably thought that when one spend hours
polishing meteorites, one came home smelling like gun powder.

Cordite...Chondrite. Anyone could make that mistake. Right?

So anyway Tom, I'll have to get down your way again this summer. And
I'll bring along a couple new, um, pieces. And thanks. They arrived
today. Very nice!

Oh, and maybe the List could play word games with guns and meteorite names.

Let's see. How about:

Rifle, Colorado
(Guns &) Rose City Michigan?
Gunlock, Utah
Sharps, Virginia
Smithsonia (& Wesson), Georgia

Best,

Martin




On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 8:15 PM,  <STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi List, ?This is the first time I have ?chimed in on one of these rants
> but here goes:
>
> The biggest mistake was ?not the photo! ?Heck, tourists love fake stage
> coach hold ups staged all ?over Arizona. ?They even have one in Knot's Berry
> Farm in California. ? The photo was just for fun.
>
> The mistake that flipped switches was the ?stereo type insult to gun
> owners/users. ?That was a "Bad Post" and should ?be apologized for! ? Martin
> joined in, prior to the slam, in a light ?hearted observation of the photo
> situation and I felt the post that started all ?this was a slam to him as well.
>
> I have cut and polished meteorites with ?Martin. ?During those visits we
> have occasionally practiced with ?guns. ?I must say that as meticulous as he
> is with meteorite matters he is ?with guns.
>
> With his Glock he is an amazing shot! ? ( I even ?suspected professional
> competition!) Once again, every thing is meticulous with ?him. ?Absolute
> safety!!!
>
> I am not typical in any way either. ?I ?like assault rifles but then again,
> I have hundreds and hundreds of acres to ?shoot them on. ?I do not hunt.
> This winter I spent more on 55 gal ?drums of wheat than on meteorites. ?We
> are reestablishing wild turkey in ?the area and for a time they need a little
> help.
>
> Last week hunters had a ?cougar up a tree with hounds on my land. ?I took
> pictures and made them let ?it go. ?(Email me for photos, I'm there with
> Daisy the "old girl" ?hound.)
>
> My point is some what an agreement with every one. ?We have ?cultural
> differences so don't condemn and stereo type a culture you are a ?visitor in!!!
>
> I like Kentucky Bourbon, but I don't slam German ?Octoberfest participants
> for drinking too much beer!
>
> The photo was just ?giving the many tourists what they want. ?The
> condescending, superior ?sounding email post was poison, and worse, was designed to
> be!
>
> Tom
>
> In a message dated 2/3/2010 7:40:18 P.M. Mountain Standard ?Time,
> geeg48 at msn.com writes:
>
>
> I'm sorry folks, but some of you ?need to get a life. ?That photo was just
> plain fun. ?The last thing ?any of those folks in the photo (I only
> recognized Geoff Notkin) had in mind was ?to start this. ?Really....what a pantload!
>
>
> Yes, I live in Arizona...yes, you're allowed to carry a weapon in
> Arizona...yes, ?I've lived around guns my whole life...yes I own several of
> them....yes, I enjoy ?shooting them...yes, I understand gun safety rules and I
> wouldn't point a weapon ?at anything I didn't intend to shoot, but PLEASE!
>
> I don't think ?the objections to the photo had anything to do with "gun
> safety". ?I think ?it had more to do with a mindset that is basically anti-gun.
> ?It's as if ?having a gun in the same photo that has a meteorite in it
> somehow taints the ?meteorite and the people in it. ?PLEASE! ?It's hard to tell
> from the ?photo whether it's a real weapon or not. ?I wish that it had been
> a bright ?"day glow" green, plastic squirt gun, but you know what, I still
> think that ?objections would still have been be raised. ?Like I said, this
> all has to ?do with a certain mindset. ? Period.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list ?mailing ?list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 20:48:15 2010
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:48:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day one
Message-ID: <462966.5074.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Good evening from cloudy and 55 degree tucson.Well I finally got in at 1:30 pm and had a great flight.Brought my dvd player with me and watched " sky captain and the world of tomorrow.It helps to pass the time on a 4 hour flight.Well bob c. was there to pick me up and we went right to the inn suites.I know it's a different name,but we'll leave it at that.I went to mike farmers room and saw all his great stuff.Moritz and akhim karl were there and jim strope came by later.Next door was dima's and serge room.I met up with dima and saw his stuff.Then I want up tp geoff notkin's and ann black's room.Truly another masterpiece in great mateial forsale.I saw geoff and ann there along with lisa marie.Later?I went over to DK meteorites and saw the jenkersons.By far,they have the "coziest " room and and have some really great looking pallasites.Then after that I went and saw pani ahmed and his fine looking howardite,nwa 1664.I also gave a little lecture on
 meteorites to a potential buyer for pani.I also went to hans koser's room and saw all his campo's.Hans was not there,but hopefully tomorrow.After that bob and I went to a mexican resteraunt and had lunch.After that we drove over amd saw blaine and blake reeb with mike martinez.Soe really good items ther forsale.While bob was talking to those guys,I went over to see said haddinay.He has some items that I just drooled over.I ended up buying a 379 gram unclassified? oriented stone fragment with mega thumbprinting and also a 79 gram TOTAL BEAUTY.It has small contraction cracks with jet black fusion crust and not a blemish on it.Hw also has a 360 gram ziz I might go for at $3 a gram.It is a sweet piece.Well it almost time meteorite men and after that we'll go out to dinner and then call it a night.Tomorrow it's sipposed to around 62 and the sun will be back out.Until tomorrow when I can display my meteorite tattoo.So far all great responses.Till tomorrow
 for day 2,good night from the meteorite capital of the world.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From mikewren at gilanet.com  Wed Feb  3 13:10:58 2010
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:10:58 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite worth thousands...........
In-Reply-To: <ad733151002030834nd09e198j3c0e5732ce1479c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ad733151002030834nd09e198j3c0e5732ce1479c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6FCA9BD7-8C64-43F8-A3FA-5058028F0DB2@gilanet.com>

Hello,

It should be of great concern. Every news article, every TV show,  
every special that features meteorites as "treasure" first, and  
science second, will most likely result in a distorted view of what  
meteorites are worth.

In my recent interview with the Washington Post writer, we spent  
nearly 20-30 minutes talking about the pricing of meteorites. I  
expressed to him that it was extremely important to report the pricing  
accurately. I told him almost every time a story is done on meteorites  
and prices are mentioned, well the reporter seems to forget the  
pennies per gram and goes with the ten's of thousands that a meteorite  
could be worth.

I told him when you state the high end only, you get a distorted view  
of pricing, and the results can be extremely negative. I believe you  
have more fraud on ebay, because people think they can get $10,000 for  
the meteorwrong, not $10.00. This is most likely a direct result of  
distorted news reporting and TV shows.

I know many of you dearly love the Meteorite TV shows of late, and  
think they are nothing but great for the field of meteorites. Well, I  
know of 4 meteorites in the field, who's owners/finders want tens of  
thousands of dollars, more than these little chondrites are worth-  
simply because of the Cash and Treasure Show and the first Meteorite  
Men episode.

So, because I will not pay, $45,000 for a 1 kilo chondrite from North  
Texas, it will sit, like many others meteorites with the owners- who  
believe, because of TV shows that were done poorly, that they are  
worth $50,000 or more.  Science will loose out if reporting is not  
done accurately.

Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham




On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:34 AM, Michael Groetz wrote:

> List-
>    Maybe many of the rest of you don't feel this way- but to me it
> generally seems the news media and television shows are more concerned
> about a quick buck rather than the science and appreciation for
> meteorites for what they are- treasures from space that you can hold
> in your hand.
>    It seems like initially meteorites are viewed as something special
> and usually wind up "How much is it worth?" after buyers roll in.
>   The doctor in this case tried to maintain the scientific value for
> all to appreciate while helping the people of Haiti. Then the $$$ was
> thrown at them and greed seems to be winning out.
>    Sorry for the frustration.
> Mike
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/03/meteorite-worth-thousands-stirs-ownership-debate/
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From warnerem at astro.umd.edu  Wed Feb  3 23:03:56 2010
From: warnerem at astro.umd.edu (Elizabeth Warner)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:03:56 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Friday talk on Almahata Sitta in Tucson
In-Reply-To: <181772.60640.qm@web180301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <181772.60640.qm@web180301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B6A472C.605@astro.umd.edu>

And if anyone is in College Park, MD, Dr. Lucy McFadden will be talking 
about her adventures in Sudan (same conference) on Thu 4 Feb, 12:30pm
http://www.astro.umd.edu/events/colloquia/planetary/cal.0204.html

Clear Skies!
Elizabeth Warner
warnerem at astro.umd.edu
301-405-6555






Mark Hammergren wrote:
> Dear Listees,
> 
> Back in December, I had the good fortune to participate in an expedition to the Almahata Sitta strewnfield, as well as present my research at an international conference on those meteorites and asteroid 2008 TC3 at the University of Khartoum. It was an amazing experience.
> 
> This Friday, February 5, at the NOAO headquarters in Tucson, I will be giving a lunchtime talk from 12:00-12:30 about the expedition. These talks are generally not advertised to the public due to limited space, but I'd like to invite any of you who might be interested to attend. We can probably accommodate up to ten extra visitors, so please email me offlist to reserve a spot. (If you do attend, please plan to stick around for the second half hour talk, by Quentin Parker of Macquarie University, entitled "Bangers and Mash: New light on old stars.")
> 
> Best regards! Hope to see many of you in Tucson,
> 
> Mark Hammergren
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 00:13:44 2010
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:13:44 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>

Robert, All,


> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
> when they leave the factory.


Well, they're not toys and they're not meant to defend against
anything - at least, anything other than someone else with a gun.  And
they're not used for anything else, really...though I suppose you
could use one as a hammer if the situation called for it.
So, killing tools.  Yeah.  You don't eat off them, you don't really do
anything constructive with them....they kill.
That's about it.

Hell, by your logic, a hammer isn't a building tool.  It's....well, if
I look at what you write below, it's just a piece of metal and
wood/plastic.  And a car isn't a transportation vehicle -
it's....metal, plastic, glass, and rubber.

Kind of a crappy semantics argument.


> They are pieces of metal and plastic,


Piece of metal and plastic that, with the push of a button, can end
someone's life.  Granted, as you say, a machete would also suffice,
but I don't think we had too many machete deaths here in the US last
year, though there are a great many machetes.  You're simply ignoring
the fact that guns make it easier to kill someone, and that's a fact
that's clearly reflected in crime statistics.


> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects.


Right, but standing in front of someone, squeezing your finger, and
shouting "bang!" is hardly going to get the job done.  Of course,
knives/machetes would also suffice, but, I'll say it again: it's
easier to pull a trigger at someone from ten feet away than it is to
slide a knife between their ribs while they try to fight you off.
Of course, if you're just using the "inanimate object" line, we can
throw all sorts of things into the mix - nuclear bombs, grenades,
ballistic missiles, etc.  All inanimate.  You seem to be saying that
the fact that they're inanimate means that people should be allowed to
have them because they cause no innate harm.  Following that logic,
you should have no problem with everyone having their own backyard
nuke.  But for some reason that seems ridiculous...I don't understand
it.  Somehow a great many people have decided that owning devices
whose sole purpose is to kill is actually an innocent endeavor -- to a
point.  When the objects' ability to kill more than ~10-20 people with
the push of a button, we stop and say that it's too dangerous.
Apparently guns aren't *quite* dangerous enough.
It doesn't make any sense.
And while the suggestion that everyone have their own nuke may seem
preposterous on the surface, it has some merit - they, too, are
inanimate objects whose sole purpose is to kill.  For some reason we
as a population have decided that there's some arbitrary limit to the
amount of killing power we want to leave in the hands of the average
citizen; assault rifles, yes, and maybe even the odd grenade, but
beyond that...it's prohibited.
>From an absolute standpoint, this makes no sense.  If you're not going
to need to shoot someone or something, you shouldn't have a gun.  We
give them to soldiers for a reason.  And there's a reason we don't
give the average soldier a nuke.
But soldiers are trained, generally don't carry their guns in public
(at least in the US), and are, for the most part, psychologically
screened.
Though the odd nut does get through.
Of course, what you're really saying is that guns are merely innocent
bystanders to crimes in which they're used.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572305,00.html

So this is where I'll post a link - and I know it happens more often
in schools than in army bases, but, it still illustrates a point.
This one man, with the aid of a gun, was able to kill 12 people and
injure 31 others.  While he may have been able to do as much with a
machete or a knife...I doubt it.  At the very least, you can run away
from a man with a knife.  It's hard to outrun a bullet.


> So Mr. G, I have
> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
> think I am a morbid person.


Anything but - but I'd have to say that you value the thrill of owning
a weapon more than you value the increased risk of your being murdered
in this country because of them.  And that's fine, but you're going to
have to understand that some people here disagree with you.


> You say we should not offend our European
> friends with our rights and traditions?


Well, using the word "right" here introduces a great deal of
ambiguity.  You could be referring to a legal or moral right, which
are very different from each other.  One suggests that we're all
entitled to own guns, and the other suggests that American law
dictates that we can own guns, regardless of whether it is "right" or
"wrong."  One is indisputable, and the other is highly questionable.
Of course, justifying something by saying that it's a tradition isn't
that good of an argument; slavery used to be a good-old American
tradition, as were many other practices we now consider to be
outdated, polygamy among them, depending on where you're from (some
places in Arizona approve).


> Growing up I spent my summers
> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
> delete.


This is such a strange analogy that I really don't know what to make
of it.  You're comparing the fact that people here dislike guns
because of the higher murder, crime, and suicide rates that go along
with them, to the fact that you saw horrible things in Africa and put
them out of mind.
Well, living in America, where many people do tend to own guns, it's
hard to "push delete" and make them all disappear.  Namely because I
live here.  It's one thing to say that tragic things happen a place
that's horribly governed with little law, and it's another to say that
we have guns here, in my homeland, and people dislike it.
Very different.  Very, very different.
Honestly, bad analogy.

> I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
> murdered with machete's.


Here's a good page:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

For a country with more guns *and better infrastructure* than any
other, we're not doing too well on the charts - unless you think the
top spot's a good one to hold.
You just compared the US to Rwanda.
Again, bad analogy.  I'd like to point out that if they'd had as many
guns in Rwanda as we have here in the US, barring munition shortages,
it's highly likely that more than 800,000 people would have died.
Just pointing it out....


> I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm.


Just as fast...maybe, but...you're a fool if you're comparing stabbing
someone to shooting them.
I'll say it again --
It's one thing to pull a trigger, and it's another to slit someone's
throat.  I've known a few people in my life who have pulled a trigger
one someone else, and I know for a fact that none of them have ever
gone after someone with a knife.  It really does take a different sort
of person.


> Peter
> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too.


Eh, it's a culture that people tend to view negatively, but every
culture has its drawbacks.  "Redneck" crap aside, I think that it's
generally a stupid thing to own a gun, as supported by statistics
which suggest that you're more than twice as likely to die from murder
or suicide if you own one.
Again, that's your choice to make, but...it also means that there are
thousands of guns around me thanks to people like you, meaning that
all of the people like you who made that same choice are upping the
odds that I'll be held up by some fellow while walking back from the
library late at night, which isn't that cool, in my opinion.


> I trust
> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
> "morbid guns" in them.


This is such a strange comment that I really don't have much to say
about it...apparently I'm not allowed to see violent films because I
believe that people generally aren't "right" in their decision to own
guns, needlessly increasing the risk that they and others will die.
Of course, if I want to turn that back on you I could simply ask you
whether you've seen any apocalyptic films, because if you have, surely
you're an advocate of the destruction of the world.......
Ugh.


> Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
> PETA people can have there turn.


For someone advocating peoples' not posting their opinions and just
pushing the delete button, you're doing a lot to push your own opinion
on others.

It's posts like these that piss me off more than anything else; trying
to get the last word in while telling others to leave it alone.

I'll end with this - I read it somewhere and it stuck with me.

"Glasses don't see: people see."

- A good argument for the abolishment of glasses, no?

Jason


On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Robert Ward
<ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 00:37:18 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:37:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Cool Meteorite
Message-ID: <463294.59825.qm@web113610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi List

Cool Meteorite 

Click here--------------------------------------------------------------------> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZTXETND1no

DISCLAIMER:
I have no affiliation with the youtube poster of this video. I just thought it would be cool to google search COOL METEORITE.

Shawn Alan


From Impactika at aol.com  Thu Feb  4 01:14:03 2010
From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:14:03 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising
Message-ID: <22d45.5251f81c.389bbfab@aol.com>

In a message dated 2/3/2010 3:59:47 AM Mountain  Standard Time, 
P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk writes:
Dear Listees

I have been a  member of this list now for less than a year. In that time I 
have seen some  almighty stushies (Scots word meaning rumpus or row) and 
debates as well as a  mountain of information and the forging of some great 
new  friendships.

However the recent postings on guns and arms has seriously  depressed and 
angered me, and if anything has come close to forcing me off the  list, it is 
this. I never thought I would see the day when I would be sharing  
correspondence with "hicks" and "rednecks" or NRA sycophants and  apologists.

Anne (Black) I salute you. Your simple, straightforward words  are my only 
comfort. :-(

Peter Davidson
Curator of  Minerals

Thank you Peter,
I do appreciate the compliment.
Please  know that in the USA not all "hicks" are NRA apologists, and not 
all NRA  apologists are "hicks". I simply detest guns and will not tolerate 
them near  me.
Beside that, please remember a saying I was told a long time ago: "the  
dogs bark, the train goes on"  :-)

And please do not leave the  List.
Thank you.

Anne M. Black
WWW.IMPACTIKA.com
email:  Impactika at aol.com
Vice-President www.IMCA.cc  



From schroer at bigpond.com  Wed Feb  3 23:39:08 2010
From: schroer at bigpond.com (W&S Schroer)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:09:08 +1030
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: {MPML} Can anyone help answer this fellow's
	meteor questions?
Message-ID: <28A225D15CA54BC68DF87B7327AF2FE4@WERNER>

Hi list,
I found the following message on the 'Minor Planet Mailing List'. If anyone 
wants to answer any of the questions below, he/she should write to 
utahsilver at yahoo.com

Cheers
Werner Schroer




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patrick Wiggins" <paw at wirelessbeehive.com>
To: "mpml mpml (list)" <mpml at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:51 PM
Subject: {MPML} Can anyone help answer this fellow's meteor questions?


I just received the following from a Robert Handley at utahsilver at yahoo.com. 
What I do _not_ know about meteor(ites) would fill several books so I can't 
answer his questions but hope someone here can.
Any takers?

Many thanks,
patrick


My father has asked me to help him find out about something that he had 
experienced in his youth. When he was around 10 years old, give or take a 
couple of years, which would have been about 1932. He was out side his home, 
which was located at Lofgreen, UT <a couple hour drive SW of Salt Lake 
City>. He and his sister were outside and he happened to be looking up at 
the sky when he saw like 6 or 7 fireballs/meteorites pass thru the sky to 
the west of him. They passed by him and headed in northerly direction. 
Passing out of his sight in a second over the mountain. He said they were 
moving very fast, so fast that his sister who was with him never saw them, 
before she could look up and look in the direction of the fireballs. I?ve 
asked him a bunch of question about his experience and tried to figure a 
little bit about it. At first he thought they were quite high up in the air 
since they went over the mountains to the north. But he also told me he 
could hear them roaring very loudly thru the air and that he felt the heat 
of them on his face. He also told me that he felt like a pressure/force 
ripple thru his body. This I think my have been something like a shockwave 
caused by the fireballs/meteorites as they passed thru the air over him, but 
that is just a guess on my part. I also asked him if the trajectory was 
steep or was it more flat, and he told me is was fairly flat. He told me the 
largest of them was like what he thought to be like 6 feet across down to 
like 2 feet across on the smaller ones. These were followed by a mass of 
small black tiny pieces that were not burning. He says it happened so fast 
and so long ago that it is hard to recall much of the detail about this 
experience. My thought is if he could hear and feel the heat and shockwave 
off them they couldn?t have been to high up in the sky.
My questions are, I was wondering if you know of any fireballs/meteors that 
passed over Utah in or around that time of 1931 to 1933? Also from what I 
have read not all of them hit the earth. Also I take they are not called 
meteorites unless they do hit the earth. The next question is how high up 
could they of been up in the air and still be able to hear and feel the heat 
off of them? Another question is with them being that low and with a fairly 
flat trajectory, how far do you think they could of traveled before falling 
to the ground if they did do that?
Not to bother you too much since I?m not sure if you have such answers for 
my dad and me I will end my letter here. I hope you can give me some sort of 
insight or information about my question or if not perhaps forward my letter 
to some one who might or let me know of such persons and/or groups that 
might help me understand and help my understand and know what he saw as a 
youth.




From erikfwebb at msn.com  Thu Feb  4 01:30:06 2010
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 23:30:06 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>,
	<93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL119-W37A889BBC9EC45528F4907A4550@phx.gbl>


Jason if you want to twist and distort things than buy silly putty. Works great for holding meteorites for photographs or display.? I recommend clay more but then you wouldn't be able to twist and distort it as easily.? Your choice will have to depend on how much of a challenge you want. Just make sure it doesn't slip into the cracks in the meteorite as it will be hard to clean out!

Gun crimes will decrease if fire arms are made illegal but also if the psycho gunman is out gunned that he won't initiate a massacre.? Iv'e never heard of a massacre at a gun show, or in a police head quarters where there were groups of armed persons...? Why is that Jason?

Your debate can be reversed as well.? If we take away weapons, gun crimes will decrease.? Also, If we urge and train citizens to carry fire arms, gun crimes will decrease.? We can find exceptions to either case.? If we take away guns, then only people who buy illegal guns will have guns and people will be defenseless.? If we urge citizens to carry fire arms, accidents involving guns will increase.
I think it's best to keep it the way it is: if you want to own one, do, if you don't, don't.
Govern your safety or depend on someone else too.? The freedom of choice.

Gun owner are violent and those who don't own guns are neurotic.? Right? Wrong...
The topic is elegant, simple and complex at the same time.? Much like the structure of each chondrule. No view is right or wrong, only the delivery of the view.

[Erik]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:13:44 -0800
> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> To: ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
>
> Robert, All,
>
>
>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>> when they leave the factory.
>
>
> Well, they're not toys and they're not meant to defend against
> anything - at least, anything other than someone else with a gun. And
> they're not used for anything else, really...though I suppose you
> could use one as a hammer if the situation called for it.
> So, killing tools. Yeah. You don't eat off them, you don't really do
> anything constructive with them....they kill.
> That's about it.
>
> Hell, by your logic, a hammer isn't a building tool. It's....well, if
> I look at what you write below, it's just a piece of metal and
> wood/plastic. And a car isn't a transportation vehicle -
> it's....metal, plastic, glass, and rubber.
>
> Kind of a crappy semantics argument.
>
>
>> They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>
>
> Piece of metal and plastic that, with the push of a button, can end
> someone's life. Granted, as you say, a machete would also suffice,
> but I don't think we had too many machete deaths here in the US last
> year, though there are a great many machetes. You're simply ignoring
> the fact that guns make it easier to kill someone, and that's a fact
> that's clearly reflected in crime statistics.
>
>
>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects.
>
>
> Right, but standing in front of someone, squeezing your finger, and
> shouting "bang!" is hardly going to get the job done. Of course,
> knives/machetes would also suffice, but, I'll say it again: it's
> easier to pull a trigger at someone from ten feet away than it is to
> slide a knife between their ribs while they try to fight you off.
> Of course, if you're just using the "inanimate object" line, we can
> throw all sorts of things into the mix - nuclear bombs, grenades,
> ballistic missiles, etc. All inanimate. You seem to be saying that
> the fact that they're inanimate means that people should be allowed to
> have them because they cause no innate harm. Following that logic,
> you should have no problem with everyone having their own backyard
> nuke. But for some reason that seems ridiculous...I don't understand
> it. Somehow a great many people have decided that owning devices
> whose sole purpose is to kill is actually an innocent endeavor -- to a
> point. When the objects' ability to kill more than ~10-20 people with
> the push of a button, we stop and say that it's too dangerous.
> Apparently guns aren't *quite* dangerous enough.
> It doesn't make any sense.
> And while the suggestion that everyone have their own nuke may seem
> preposterous on the surface, it has some merit - they, too, are
> inanimate objects whose sole purpose is to kill. For some reason we
> as a population have decided that there's some arbitrary limit to the
> amount of killing power we want to leave in the hands of the average
> citizen; assault rifles, yes, and maybe even the odd grenade, but
> beyond that...it's prohibited.
>>From an absolute standpoint, this makes no sense. If you're not going
> to need to shoot someone or something, you shouldn't have a gun. We
> give them to soldiers for a reason. And there's a reason we don't
> give the average soldier a nuke.
> But soldiers are trained, generally don't carry their guns in public
> (at least in the US), and are, for the most part, psychologically
> screened.
> Though the odd nut does get through.
> Of course, what you're really saying is that guns are merely innocent
> bystanders to crimes in which they're used.
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572305,00.html
>
> So this is where I'll post a link - and I know it happens more often
> in schools than in army bases, but, it still illustrates a point.
> This one man, with the aid of a gun, was able to kill 12 people and
> injure 31 others. While he may have been able to do as much with a
> machete or a knife...I doubt it. At the very least, you can run away
> from a man with a knife. It's hard to outrun a bullet.
>
>
>> So Mr. G, I have
>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>> think I am a morbid person.
>
>
> Anything but - but I'd have to say that you value the thrill of owning
> a weapon more than you value the increased risk of your being murdered
> in this country because of them. And that's fine, but you're going to
> have to understand that some people here disagree with you.
>
>
>> You say we should not offend our European
>> friends with our rights and traditions?
>
>
> Well, using the word "right" here introduces a great deal of
> ambiguity. You could be referring to a legal or moral right, which
> are very different from each other. One suggests that we're all
> entitled to own guns, and the other suggests that American law
> dictates that we can own guns, regardless of whether it is "right" or
> "wrong." One is indisputable, and the other is highly questionable.
> Of course, justifying something by saying that it's a tradition isn't
> that good of an argument; slavery used to be a good-old American
> tradition, as were many other practices we now consider to be
> outdated, polygamy among them, depending on where you're from (some
> places in Arizona approve).
>
>
>> Growing up I spent my summers
>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>> delete.
>
>
> This is such a strange analogy that I really don't know what to make
> of it. You're comparing the fact that people here dislike guns
> because of the higher murder, crime, and suicide rates that go along
> with them, to the fact that you saw horrible things in Africa and put
> them out of mind.
> Well, living in America, where many people do tend to own guns, it's
> hard to "push delete" and make them all disappear. Namely because I
> live here. It's one thing to say that tragic things happen a place
> that's horribly governed with little law, and it's another to say that
> we have guns here, in my homeland, and people dislike it.
> Very different. Very, very different.
> Honestly, bad analogy.
>
>> I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>> murdered with machete's.
>
>
> Here's a good page:
>
> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
>
> For a country with more guns *and better infrastructure* than any
> other, we're not doing too well on the charts - unless you think the
> top spot's a good one to hold.
> You just compared the US to Rwanda.
> Again, bad analogy. I'd like to point out that if they'd had as many
> guns in Rwanda as we have here in the US, barring munition shortages,
> it's highly likely that more than 800,000 people would have died.
> Just pointing it out....
>
>
>> I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm.
>
>
> Just as fast...maybe, but...you're a fool if you're comparing stabbing
> someone to shooting them.
> I'll say it again --
> It's one thing to pull a trigger, and it's another to slit someone's
> throat. I've known a few people in my life who have pulled a trigger
> one someone else, and I know for a fact that none of them have ever
> gone after someone with a knife. It really does take a different sort
> of person.
>
>
>> Peter
>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too.
>
>
> Eh, it's a culture that people tend to view negatively, but every
> culture has its drawbacks. "Redneck" crap aside, I think that it's
> generally a stupid thing to own a gun, as supported by statistics
> which suggest that you're more than twice as likely to die from murder
> or suicide if you own one.
> Again, that's your choice to make, but...it also means that there are
> thousands of guns around me thanks to people like you, meaning that
> all of the people like you who made that same choice are upping the
> odds that I'll be held up by some fellow while walking back from the
> library late at night, which isn't that cool, in my opinion.
>
>
>> I trust
>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>> "morbid guns" in them.
>
>
> This is such a strange comment that I really don't have much to say
> about it...apparently I'm not allowed to see violent films because I
> believe that people generally aren't "right" in their decision to own
> guns, needlessly increasing the risk that they and others will die.
> Of course, if I want to turn that back on you I could simply ask you
> whether you've seen any apocalyptic films, because if you have, surely
> you're an advocate of the destruction of the world.......
> Ugh.
>
>
>> Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>> PETA people can have there turn.
>
>
> For someone advocating peoples' not posting their opinions and just
> pushing the delete button, you're doing a lot to push your own opinion
> on others.
>
> It's posts like these that piss me off more than anything else; trying
> to get the last word in while telling others to leave it alone.
>
> I'll end with this - I read it somewhere and it stuck with me.
>
> "Glasses don't see: people see."
>
> - A good argument for the abolishment of glasses, no?
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Robert Ward
>  wrote:
>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  

From minador at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 01:35:35 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:35:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matters Arising. When in Rome!
In-Reply-To: <822da19a1002032032h12dc1d22v95c263855c45c132@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1f15b.2ca09715.389b95b4@aol.com>
	<822da19a1002032032h12dc1d22v95c263855c45c132@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <719415.78214.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Funny Martin,

I've been hunting at Pistol Hill and Gunsight Pass, hoping to find something so I can put those names to it!

And yes, the photo did look funny and I confirmed that it wasn't pointing directly at anybody.

Having fun in Tucson,
Mark

P.S. I hope to meet a lot of you, so please look me up at the IMCA dinner, Birthday Bash and?Blood auction.? Safe travells to all!



>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Dark Matter <freequarks at gmail.com>
>> Oh, and maybe the List could play word games with guns and meteorite names.
>> 
>> Let's see. How about:
>> 
>> Rifle, Colorado
>> (Guns &) Rose City Michigan?
>> Gunlock, Utah
>> Sharps, Virginia
>> Smithsonia (& Wesson), Georgia
>> 
>> Best,
>> Martin



From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Thu Feb  4 02:01:08 2010
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:01:08 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>,
	<93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W530AEC30CA91B8E0679B19A2550@phx.gbl>


Jason,
 
Splendid examples of naivety and bombasity (yeah, I know it's not a word). I sincerely hope you never find yourself in a position that reminds you how foolish what you said here, is.
 
 


----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:13:44 -0800
> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> To: ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
>
> Robert, All,
>
>
>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>> when they leave the factory.
>
>
> Well, they're not toys and they're not meant to defend against
> anything - at least, anything other than someone else with a gun. And
> they're not used for anything else, really...though I suppose you
> could use one as a hammer if the situation called for it.
> So, killing tools. Yeah. You don't eat off them, you don't really do
> anything constructive with them....they kill.
> That's about it.
>
> Hell, by your logic, a hammer isn't a building tool. It's....well, if
> I look at what you write below, it's just a piece of metal and
> wood/plastic. And a car isn't a transportation vehicle -
> it's....metal, plastic, glass, and rubber.
>
> Kind of a crappy semantics argument.
>
>
>> They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>
>
> Piece of metal and plastic that, with the push of a button, can end
> someone's life. Granted, as you say, a machete would also suffice,
> but I don't think we had too many machete deaths here in the US last
> year, though there are a great many machetes. You're simply ignoring
> the fact that guns make it easier to kill someone, and that's a fact
> that's clearly reflected in crime statistics.
>
>
>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects.
>
>
> Right, but standing in front of someone, squeezing your finger, and
> shouting "bang!" is hardly going to get the job done. Of course,
> knives/machetes would also suffice, but, I'll say it again: it's
> easier to pull a trigger at someone from ten feet away than it is to
> slide a knife between their ribs while they try to fight you off.
> Of course, if you're just using the "inanimate object" line, we can
> throw all sorts of things into the mix - nuclear bombs, grenades,
> ballistic missiles, etc. All inanimate. You seem to be saying that
> the fact that they're inanimate means that people should be allowed to
> have them because they cause no innate harm. Following that logic,
> you should have no problem with everyone having their own backyard
> nuke. But for some reason that seems ridiculous...I don't understand
> it. Somehow a great many people have decided that owning devices
> whose sole purpose is to kill is actually an innocent endeavor -- to a
> point. When the objects' ability to kill more than ~10-20 people with
> the push of a button, we stop and say that it's too dangerous.
> Apparently guns aren't *quite* dangerous enough.
> It doesn't make any sense.
> And while the suggestion that everyone have their own nuke may seem
> preposterous on the surface, it has some merit - they, too, are
> inanimate objects whose sole purpose is to kill. For some reason we
> as a population have decided that there's some arbitrary limit to the
> amount of killing power we want to leave in the hands of the average
> citizen; assault rifles, yes, and maybe even the odd grenade, but
> beyond that...it's prohibited.
>>From an absolute standpoint, this makes no sense. If you're not going
> to need to shoot someone or something, you shouldn't have a gun. We
> give them to soldiers for a reason. And there's a reason we don't
> give the average soldier a nuke.
> But soldiers are trained, generally don't carry their guns in public
> (at least in the US), and are, for the most part, psychologically
> screened.
> Though the odd nut does get through.
> Of course, what you're really saying is that guns are merely innocent
> bystanders to crimes in which they're used.
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572305,00.html
>
> So this is where I'll post a link - and I know it happens more often
> in schools than in army bases, but, it still illustrates a point.
> This one man, with the aid of a gun, was able to kill 12 people and
> injure 31 others. While he may have been able to do as much with a
> machete or a knife...I doubt it. At the very least, you can run away
> from a man with a knife. It's hard to outrun a bullet.
>
>
>> So Mr. G, I have
>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>> think I am a morbid person.
>
>
> Anything but - but I'd have to say that you value the thrill of owning
> a weapon more than you value the increased risk of your being murdered
> in this country because of them. And that's fine, but you're going to
> have to understand that some people here disagree with you.
>
>
>> You say we should not offend our European
>> friends with our rights and traditions?
>
>
> Well, using the word "right" here introduces a great deal of
> ambiguity. You could be referring to a legal or moral right, which
> are very different from each other. One suggests that we're all
> entitled to own guns, and the other suggests that American law
> dictates that we can own guns, regardless of whether it is "right" or
> "wrong." One is indisputable, and the other is highly questionable.
> Of course, justifying something by saying that it's a tradition isn't
> that good of an argument; slavery used to be a good-old American
> tradition, as were many other practices we now consider to be
> outdated, polygamy among them, depending on where you're from (some
> places in Arizona approve).
>
>
>> Growing up I spent my summers
>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>> delete.
>
>
> This is such a strange analogy that I really don't know what to make
> of it. You're comparing the fact that people here dislike guns
> because of the higher murder, crime, and suicide rates that go along
> with them, to the fact that you saw horrible things in Africa and put
> them out of mind.
> Well, living in America, where many people do tend to own guns, it's
> hard to "push delete" and make them all disappear. Namely because I
> live here. It's one thing to say that tragic things happen a place
> that's horribly governed with little law, and it's another to say that
> we have guns here, in my homeland, and people dislike it.
> Very different. Very, very different.
> Honestly, bad analogy.
>
>> I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>> murdered with machete's.
>
>
> Here's a good page:
>
> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
>
> For a country with more guns *and better infrastructure* than any
> other, we're not doing too well on the charts - unless you think the
> top spot's a good one to hold.
> You just compared the US to Rwanda.
> Again, bad analogy. I'd like to point out that if they'd had as many
> guns in Rwanda as we have here in the US, barring munition shortages,
> it's highly likely that more than 800,000 people would have died.
> Just pointing it out....
>
>
>> I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm.
>
>
> Just as fast...maybe, but...you're a fool if you're comparing stabbing
> someone to shooting them.
> I'll say it again --
> It's one thing to pull a trigger, and it's another to slit someone's
> throat. I've known a few people in my life who have pulled a trigger
> one someone else, and I know for a fact that none of them have ever
> gone after someone with a knife. It really does take a different sort
> of person.
>
>
>> Peter
>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too.
>
>
> Eh, it's a culture that people tend to view negatively, but every
> culture has its drawbacks. "Redneck" crap aside, I think that it's
> generally a stupid thing to own a gun, as supported by statistics
> which suggest that you're more than twice as likely to die from murder
> or suicide if you own one.
> Again, that's your choice to make, but...it also means that there are
> thousands of guns around me thanks to people like you, meaning that
> all of the people like you who made that same choice are upping the
> odds that I'll be held up by some fellow while walking back from the
> library late at night, which isn't that cool, in my opinion.
>
>
>> I trust
>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>> "morbid guns" in them.
>
>
> This is such a strange comment that I really don't have much to say
> about it...apparently I'm not allowed to see violent films because I
> believe that people generally aren't "right" in their decision to own
> guns, needlessly increasing the risk that they and others will die.
> Of course, if I want to turn that back on you I could simply ask you
> whether you've seen any apocalyptic films, because if you have, surely
> you're an advocate of the destruction of the world.......
> Ugh.
>
>
>> Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>> PETA people can have there turn.
>
>
> For someone advocating peoples' not posting their opinions and just
> pushing the delete button, you're doing a lot to push your own opinion
> on others.
>
> It's posts like these that piss me off more than anything else; trying
> to get the last word in while telling others to leave it alone.
>
> I'll end with this - I read it somewhere and it stuck with me.
>
> "Glasses don't see: people see."
>
> - A good argument for the abolishment of glasses, no?
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Robert Ward
> wrote:
>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/

From rmforall at comcast.net  Thu Feb  4 02:12:42 2010
From: rmforall at comcast.net (Rich Murray)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:12:42 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] CATALOGO DE BIBLIOGRAFIA BASICA SOBRE CRATERES DE
	IMPACTO EN SUDAMERICA 1926 - 2008 Rogelio D Acevedo &
	Maximiliano CL Rocca: Rich Murray 2010.02.04
Message-ID: <5DCD0A6FB37C4771AE59C99FE4ABAC9C@ownerPC>

CATALOGO DE BIBLIOGRAFIA BASICA SOBRE CRATERES DE IMPACTO EN SUDAMERICA 
1926 - 2008 Rogelio D Acevedo & Maximiliano CL Rocca: Rich Murray 2010.02.04
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_02_01_archive.htm
Thursday, February 4, 2010
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/40
_____________________________________________________


http://www.cadic.gov.ar/Articulos/CatalogoCrateresImpactoSudamerica.pdf

CATALOGO DE BIBLIOGRAFIA BASICA SOBRE CRATERES
DE IMPACTO EN SUDAMERICA
Rogelio D. Acevedo1 y Maximiliano C.L. Rocca 2
1 Centro Austral de Investigaciones Cient?ficas (CADIC)
Bernardo Houssay no 200 (V9410BFD)
Ushuaia, Tierra del Fuego, Argentina. acevedo at cadic.gov.ar
2 Mendoza 2779, 16A, (1428DKU)
Ciudad de Buenos Aires, Argentina.
maxrocca2006 at hotmail.com

LISTADO DE REFERENCIAS:

Se detallan a continuacion, en orden cronologico, las publicaciones
mas importantes sobre crateres de impacto en Sudamerica:

1926:

N?gera, J.
Los hoyos del Campo del Cielo y el meteorito.
Direcci?n General de Minas, Geolog?a e Hidrolog?a.
Ministerio de Agricultura. Publicaci?n 19.
Este trabajo rechaza el origen de los cr?teres de Campo del Cielo
por impacto de meteorito.

1933:

Scheibe, R.
Meteoritas vidriosas de Colombia (tectitas).
Estudios Geol?gicos Oficiales en Colombia, Tomo I-II, pp.245-255.
Actualmente se considera que no se trataba de tectitas sino de
obsidianas volc?nicas.

1965:

Cassidy, W.A.; Villar, L.M.; Bunch, T.E.; Kohman, T.P.; Milton, D.J.
Meteorites and Craters of Campo del Cielo, Argentina.
Science 149: 1055-1064
.
1966:

Ashbee, K.H.G.; Vassamillet, L.F.
Dislocations in a Campo del Cielo meteorite.
Science 151: 1526-1527.

S?nchez, J.; Cassidy, W.A.
A Previously Undescribed Meteorite Crater in Chile.
Journal of Geophysical Research 71 (20): 4891-4895.
Cr?ter de Monturaqui.

1967:

Cassidy, W.A.
Meteorite Field Studies at Campo del Cielo.
Sky & Telescope 34 (1): 4-10.

1968:

Bunch, T.E.; Cassidy, W.A.
Impact-Induced Deformation in the Campo del Cielo meteorite.
In: Shock Metamorphism of Natural Materials
(B.M. French & N.M. Short editores).
Mono Book Corporation, Baltimore, pp.601-612.

Cassidy, W.A.
Meteorite Impact Structures at Campo del Cielo, Argentina.
In: Shock Metamorphism of Natural Materials
( B.M. French and N.M. Short editores).
Mono Book Corporation, Baltimore, pp.117-128.

Villar, L.M.
La Dispersi?n meteoritica en Argentina y Chile.
Ciencia e Investigaci?n (Julio): 302-314.

1971:

Cassidy, W.A.
A Small Meteorite Crater: Structural Details.
Journal of Geophysical Research 76 (17): 3896-3912.
Cr?ter de Campo del Cielo.

Renard, M.L.; Cassidy W.A.
Entry trajectory and orbital calculations for the Crater 9 meteorite,
Campo del Cielo.
Journal of Geophysical Research 76: 7916-7923.

1972:

Bunch, T.E.; Cassidy, W.A.
Petrographic and electron microscope study of the
Monturaqui impactite.
Contributions to Mineralogy and Petrology 36: 95-112.

1973.

Dietz, R.S.; French, B.M.
Two Probable Astroblemes in Brazil.
Nature 244: 561-562.

1978:
McHone, J.; Dietz, R.S.
Astroblemes in Brazil.
Geological Society of America 10: 136-137.

1979:

McHone, J.
Riachao Ring, Brazil: A possible meteorite crater discovered
by the Apollo Astronauts.
Apollo-Soyuz Test. Project NASA Special Publication SP 412,
Report 11: 193-2002.

1981:

Crosta A.P.; Gaspar J.C.; Candia M.A.F.
Fei??es de Metamorfismo de impacto no domo de Araguainha.
Revista Brasileira de Geociencias 11(3): 139-146.

Theilen-Willige, B.
The Araguainha Impact Structure/Central Brazil.
Revista Brasileira de Geociencias 11(2): 91-97.

1982:

Theilen-Willige, B.
The Araguainha astrobleme, Central Brazil.
Geologischen Rudschau 71: 318-327.

1987:

Corbella, H.
Agrupamientos de cr?teres por posible impacto,
Bajada del Diablo, Provincia del Chubut, Argentina.
Revista Asociaci?n Argentina de Mineralog?a,
Petrolog?a y Sedimentolog?a 18(1/4): 67.

Crosta, A.P.
Impact Structures in Brazil.
In: Research in Terrestrial Impact Structures (J. Pohl Editor).
Fiedrerich Vieweg & Sohn,
Braunschweig/Wiesbad, pp.30-37.

1988:

Fielding, E.; Alonso, R.N.
Possible impact crater in NW Argentina interpreted from
Thematic Mapper Imagery.
EOS (American Geophysical Union) 69(16): 391.
Cr?ter de Antofalla.

1989:

Campbell Jr, K.E.; Grieve, R.A.F.; Pacheco-Z, J.; Garvin, J.B.
A newly discovered possible impact structure in Amazonian Bolivia,
National Geographic Research 5 (4): 495-499.
Estructura Iturralde.

1991:

Mart?nez, I.; Scharer, U.; Deutsch, A.
Determination of shock-wave peak preassure and Rb-Sr isotope
systematics in a granite from the Araguainha impact crater, Brazil.
Lunar and Planetary Science XXII: 857-858.

1992:

Alonso, R.N.,
Possible Impact Crater in NW Argentina Interpreted from
Thematic Mapper Imagery.
III Congreso Geol?gico de Espa?a y VIII Congreso Latinoamericano
de Geolog?a. Actas Tomo 4: 435-439.
Cr?ter de Antofalla.

Bunch, T.E.; Schultz, P.H.
A study of the Rio Cuarto loess impactites and chondritic impactor
(abstract).
Lunar and Planetary Science XXIII, 179-180.

Deustch, A.; Buhl, D.; Langenhorst, F.
On the significance of crater ages: New Ages for Dellen (Sweden)
and Araguainha (Brazil).
Tectonophysics 216: 205-218.

Engelhardft, E.V.; Mathai, S.K.; Walzebach, J.
Araguainha impact crater, Brazil. I: The Interior part of the uplift.
Meteoritics 27: 442-457.

Grant, J.A.; Schultz, P.H.
Gradation of the R?o Cuarto crater field, Argentina (abstract).
Lunar and Planetary Science XXIII, 439-440.

Koeberl, C.; Schultz, P.H.
Chemical composition of meteoritic and impactite samples
from the R?o Cuarto Craters, Argentina (abstract).
Lunar and Planetary Science XXIII, 707-708.

Lianza, R. E.
Discovering the crater.
Sky & Telescope, p. 392.
Cr?teres de R?o Cuarto.

Rampino, M.
A Large Late Permian Impact Structure from the Falkland Plateau.
EOS (AGU) 73: 136.

Rampino, M.
A Major Late Permian event on the Falkland Plateau.
EOS (AGU) 73: 336.

Schultz, P.H.; Beatty, J.K.
Teardrops on the pampas.
Sky & Telescope 83: 387-392.
R?o Cuarto, Argentina.

Schultz, P.H.; Grant, J.; Collins, W.; L?pez, J.P.; Toselli,A.J.
Rio Cuarto crater field (abstract).
Lunar and Planetary Science XXIII, 1237-1238.

Schultz, P.H.; Lianza, R.E.
Recent grazing impacts on the Earth recorded in the
Rio Cuarto Crater Field, Argentina.
Nature 355: 234-237.

1993:

Grant, J.A.; Schultz, P.H.
Martian crater degradation by eolian processes:
Analogy with the Rio Cuarto crater field, Argentina (abstract).
Lunar and Planetary Science XXIV, 559-560.

Schultz, P.H.; Koeberl, C.; Bunch,T.
Shock and impactor signatures in R?o Cuarto impactites, Argentina
(abstract).
Meteoritics, 28: 432-433.

1994:

Schultz, P.H.; Koeberl, C.; Bunch, T.; Grant, J.; Collins, W.
Ground truth for oblique impact processes:
New insight from the R?o Cuarto, Argentina, Crater Field.
Geology 22: 889-892.

1995:

Aldahan, A.A.; G?ran Possnert, G.; Koeberl, C.; Schultz,P.
Cosmogenic Be-10 in impact glass and target materials from
the Rio Cuarto craters, Argentina (abstract).
4th International Workshop of the ESF Scientific Network on
"Impact Cratering and Evolution of Planet Earth".
The Role of Impacts on the Evolution of the Atmosphere and
Biosphere with Regard to Short- and Long-Term Changes,
pp. 23-25.

Hammerschmidt, K.; Engelhardt, W.V.
40Ar/39Ar dating of the Araguainha impact structure,
Mato Grosso, Brazil.
Meteoritics 30: 227-233.

1996:

Cassidy, W.A.; Renard, M.L.
Discovering research value in the Campo del Cielo, Argentina,
meteorite craters.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 31: 433-448.

1997:

Aldahan, A.A.; Koeberl, C.; G?ran Possnert, G.; Schultz,P.
10 Be and chemistry of the impactites and target materials from
the R?o Cuarto Crater Field, Argentina:
Evidence for surficial cratering and melting.
GFF 119: 67-72.

Masero, W.; Fischer, G.; Shnegg, M.
Electrical Conductivity and Crustal deformation from
Magnetotelluric results in the region of the Araguainha Impact, Brazil.
Physics of the Earth and Planetary Interiors 101: 271-289.

1998:

Hippertt, J.; Lana, C.
Aerial crystallization of hematite in impact bombs from the
Araguainha astrobleme, Mato Grosss, Central Brazil.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 33: 1303-1309.

2000:

Berche?i, G.; Pitzu, G.; Alonso R.N.
Cr?teres meteor?ticos de los Andes Centrales.
XIV Congreso Geol?gico Boliviano, La Paz, Memorias y CD,
222-226.

2001:

Bland, P.A.; Souza, C.R.,de; Hough, R.M.; Pierazzo, E.; Coniglio, J.;
Pinotti, L.; Jull, A.J.T.; Evers,V.
The R?o Cuarto Crater Field re-visited:
Remote Sensing imagery analysis and new field observations.
64th Annual Meteoritical Society Meeting.

2002:

Bland, P.A.; de Souza Filho, C.R.; Jull, A.J.T.; Kelley, S.P.;
Hough,  R.M.; Artemieva, N.A.; Pierazzo, E.; Coniglio, J.;
Pinotti, L.; Evers, V.,A.; Kearsley, T.
A Possible Tektite Strewn Field in the Argentinian Pampas.
Science 296: 1109-1111.

Beatty, J. K.
Did Bland rush to conclusions? Controversy brewing over
R?o Cuarto craters.
Sky & Telescope, 14 May 2002
http://skyandtelescope.com/news/current/article602_1.asp.

Cione, A.L.; Tonni, E.P.; San Crist?bal, J.; Hern?ndez, P.J.;
Ben?tez, A.; Bordignon, F.; Per?, J.A.
Putative Meteoritic Craters in R?o Cuarto (Central Argentina)
interpreted as eolian structures.
Earth, Moon and Planets 91: 9-24.

Liberman, R.G.; Fern?ndez Niello, J.O.; Di Tada, M.L.; Fifield, L.K.;
Masarik, J.; Reedy, R.C.
Campo del Cielo iron meteorite: sample shielding and meteoroid's
preatmospheric size.
Meteoritics & Planetary Science, 37(2): 295-300.

Melosh, H. J.
Traces of an unusual impact.
Science, 296: 1037-1038.
Cr?teres de R?o Cuarto.

2003:

Rocca, M.C.L.
Bajo Hondo: A Very Puzzling Crater in Chubut,
Patagonia, Argentina.
Abstract 4001 presentado en la 3rd. Internacional Conference
on Large Meteorite Impacts and Planetary Evolution, Nordlingen,
August 5-7, Alemania.

Rocca, M.C.L.
Potencial Impact Sites in Southern Argentina: Simple Craters?.
Abstract 4002 presentado en la 3 rd. Internacional Conference
on Large Meteorite Impacts and Planetary Evolution, Nordlingen,
August 5-7, Alemania.

Rocca, M.C.L.
Los Mellizos: A Potential Impact Structure in Santa Cruz, Patagonia,
Argentina, South America.
Abstract 4003 presentado en la 3 rd. Internacional Conference
on Large Meteorite Impacts and Planetary Evolution, Nordlingen,
August 5-7, Alemania.

Rocca, M.C.L.
Potential new impact sites in Patagonia, Argentina, South America.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 38(7): p.A9.

2004:

Crosta, A.P.
A Possible Impact Crater Among Craters:
The Llica Structure in Bolivia.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 39(8): p.A27.

Crosta, A.P.; Kazzuo-Vieira, C.; Schrank, A.P.
Vista Alegre: A newly impact crater in Southern Brazil.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 39(8), p.A28.

de Souza Filho, C.R.; Bland, P.A.
Proven, Probably and Possible Impact Craters in South America
Revealed by Aster and SRTM Data and Image Processing
Techniques.
67th Annual Meteoritical Society Meeting.

Rocca, M.C.L.
The crater in Meseta de la Barda Negra, Neuquen, Argentina:
A New meteorite impact site?
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 39(8): p.A89.

Rocca, M.C.L.
Potential Impact Sites in Northern Argentina.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 39(8): p.A90.

Rocca, M.C.L.
R?o Vichada: A possible 50 km wide Impact Structure
in Colombia, South America.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 39 (8): p.A90.

Romano, R.; Crosta, A.P.
Brazilian Impact Craters: A Review.
Lunar and Planetary Science XXXV.

2005:

Acevedo, R.D.; Rocca, M.C.L.
Revisi?n Cr?tica de los posibles cr?teres de Impacto
situados en territorio Argentino.
Actas XVI Congreso Geol?gico Argentino, La Plata, Tomo III:
627-634.

Adepelumi, A.A.; Fklexior, J.M.; Fontes, S.L.
An appraisal of the Serra da Cangalha Impact Structure
using the Euler deconvolution method.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 40(8): 1149-1157.

Adepelumi, A.A.; Fontes, S.L.; Schnegg, P.A.; Flexor, J.M.
An integrated magnetotelluric and aeromagnetic investigation
of the Serra da Cangalha impact crater, Brazil.
Physics of the Earth and Planetary Interiors 50(1): 159-182.

Crosta, A.P.; Kazzuo-Vieira, C.; Choudhuri, A.; Schrank, A.
Vergeao Dome Astrobleme, SC;
A meteoritic impact record on volcanic rocks of the Parana Basin.
In: Winge, M.; Schobbenhaus, C.; Bert-Born, M.; Queiroz, E.T.;
Campos, D.A. (Editores).
Sitios Geol?gico y Paleontol?gicos do Brasil 114.

MacDonald, W.D.; Crosta, A.P.; Francol?n, J.
Structural Dome at Sao Miguel do Tapuio, Brazil.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 41(8):p.A110

Ocampo, A.C.; Garrido, A.C.; Rabassa, J.; Rocca, M.C.L.;
A Possible Impact Crater in Basalt at Meseta de la Barda Negra,
Neuqu?n, Argentina.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 40(9): p.A117.

Rocca, M.C.L.
Bajo Hondo, Chubut, Patagonia, Argentina:
A New Meteorite Impact Crater in Basalt?
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 40(9): p.A128.

Serefiddin, F.; Herzog, G.F.; Schultz, P.H.; Schultz, L.
Exposure Histories of Three Meteorites from R?o Cuarto, Argentina.
68th Annual Meteoritical Society Meeting (5292.pdf).

2006:

Reimold, W.U.; Cooper, G.R.J.; Romano, R.; Cowan, D.R.;
Koeberl, Ch.
Investigation of Shuttle Radar Topography Mission data of the
possible impact structure at Serra da Cangalha, Brazil.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 41(2): 237-246.

Rocca, M.C.L.
A Catalogue of Large Meteorite Specimens from Campo del Cielo
Meteorite Shower, Chaco Province, Argentina.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 41(8): p.A150.

Rocca, M.C.L.
Two New Potential Meteorite Impact Sites in Chubut Province,
Argentina.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 41 (8): p.A151.

2007:

Acevedo, R.D.; Ponce, F.; Rocca. M; Rabassa, J.; Corbella, H.
Filu-C? plateau: the major impact crater field of Bajada del Diablo
strewnfield, Argentine, Patagonia.
GeoSur. Santiago de Chile. Libro de Res?menes, 2.

Levine, J.; Arazi, A.; Faestermann, T.; Fenandez Niello, J.O.;
Korschinek, G.; La Gamma, A.M.G. ; Negri, A.; Rugel, G.;
Steier, P.; Wallner, A.
Terrestrial Age Determination of an Achondrite
from R?o Cuarto, Argentina.
Lunar and Planetary Science XXXVIII (1362.pdf).

Rocca, M.C.L.
Los Mellizos Structure : A possible new 15 Km wide Impact Crater
in the Deseado Plateau, Santa Cruz Province, Argentina.
Meteoritics and Planetary Science 42(8): p.A131.

Wright, S.P.; Vesconi, M.A.; Spagnuolo, M.G.; Cerutti, C.;
Jacob, R.W.; Cassidy, W.A.
Explosion craters and penetration funnels in the Campo del Cielo,
Argentina, crater field.
Lunar and Planetary Science XXXVIII. 2017 pdf.

2008:

Harris, R.S.; Schultz, P.H.; Tancredi, G.; Ishitsuka, J.
Petrology and ejecta from the Carancas (Per?) Crater:
Insights into the Dynamics of an "unusual" impact event.
In: Asteroids, Comets, Meteors 2008, abstract 8302 pdf.

Schultz, P.H.; Harris, R.S.; Tancredi, G.; Ishitsuka, J.
Implications of the Carancas meteorite impact.
Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIX, abstract 2409 pdf.

Ponce, F.; Acevedo, R.D.; Rocca. M; Rabassa, J.; Corbella, H.
Ubicaci?n geogr?fica y localizaci?n geol?gica de los cr?teres de
impacto de Filu-C? (Bajada del Diablo) Provincia del Chubut,
Rep?blica Argentina.
Actas del XVII Congreso Geol?gico Argentino, III:1241-1242.
San Salvador de Jujuy. ISBN 978-987-22403-1-8
_____________________________________________________


third Meteor Night, 7 pm Tuesday Feb 2, SF Complex -- soon I will
show Tim McElvain 3 sites in La Tierra-Las Dos subdivision,
Santa Fe, NM -- my samples show intense blast effects with surface
melting and mineral coatings: Rich Murray 2010.01.28
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.htm
Thursday, January 28, 2010
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/38

large dense fractal meteor cluster in Alaska?  also 21 pages re
unusual 0.6 m rock in Palmer: Horace Heffner:
Rich Murray 2010.01.24
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.htm
Sunday, January 24, 2010
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/37

Meteor Night 7 pm tonight, Santa Fe Complex, Santa Fe, Jan 19,
Rich Murray with 10x12 screen on two extensive websites by
Dennis Cox and by Tim McElvain: Rich Murray 2010.01.19
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.htm
Tuesday, January 19, 2010
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/36

http://sites.google.com/site/dragonstormproject/
Dennis Cox,  Fresno, California

http://www.impactstructure.net/working-hypothesis.html
Thornton H. "Tim" McElvain, Santa Fe, New Mexico

awesome evidence (Google Earth images, stereo pairs, some videos)
from Mexico to Canada for 500 km comet rubble pile air impacts
12950 BP -- Dennis Cox: Rich Murray 2010.01.13
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.htm
Wednesday, January 13, 2010
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/35

exact Carolina Bay crater locations, RB Firestone, A West, et al,
two YD reviews, 2008 June, 2009 Nov,
also 3 upcoming abstracts: Rich Murray 2009.11.14
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_11_01_archive.htm
Saturday, November 14, 2009
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/31

Rich Murray, MA
Boston University Graduate School 1967 psychology,
BS MIT 1964, history and physics,
1943 Otowi Road, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505
505-501-2298  rmforall at comcast.net

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AstroDeep/messages

http://RMForAll.blogspot.com new primary archive

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/messages
group with 142 members, 1,588 posts in a public archive

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rmforall/messages

participant, Santa Fe Complex www.sfcomplex.org
_____________________________________________________




From steve.dunklee at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 02:34:44 2010
From: steve.dunklee at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 23:34:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Yields Carbon Crystals Harder Than
	Diamond
In-Reply-To: <1dc14.51d5eadb.389b89f8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <968783.98967.qm@web113917.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I may be wrong but seems to me the pressures of entering the atmosphere did not create the diamonds unless they were in the crust. A supernova on the other hand is a more likely source of them.
cheers
Steve

--- On Thu, 2/4/10, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com <STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com> wrote:

> From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com <STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Yields Carbon Crystals Harder Than Diamond
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 2:24 AM
> 
> Hi list,? This is off topic (sort of)? to?
> this very interesting post but 
> it 
> does mention graphite and?
> diamonds.???
> 
> I have shared this observation before and every? time
> I have mentioned it? 
> I 
> have been taken wrong!? Has any else? noticed how
> the graphite inclusions? 
> in the fossil EL3, NWA 2828, 2965,? Al Haggounia 001
> etc. fool an 
> electronic? 
> diamond tester?
> 
> Now? this is the part I have been taken wrong on, I'm
> not? saying I have? 
> found testable size diamonds but rather the graphite will
> set off? an? 
> electronic diamond tester!? Those testers operate on
> thermal???
> conductivity.? 
> 
> I can take my optical scopes to 2000X but that is?
> no? help in this stuff.
> 
> I have tried similar inclusions in other?
> meteorites? and nothing.? Is the 
> inclusion made of nano diamonds? or just a
> material? that is as thermally 
> conductive as? diamonds????Which ever,
> it is? interesting!
> 
> Tom? Phillips
> 
> In a message dated 2/3/2010 6:23:57 P.M. Mountain Standard
> Time,? baalke
> @zagami.jpl.nasa.gov? writes:
> 
> http://www.physorg.com/news184402061.html?
> ???
> 
> Meteorite yields carbon crystals harder than diamond
> by Lin? Edwards
> physorg.com
> February 3, 2010 
> 
> (PhysOrg.com) -- Two new? types of ultra-hard carbon
> crystals have been
> found by researchers? investigating the ureilite class
> Haver? meteorite
> that crashed to Earth in? Finland in 1971. Ureilite
> meteorites are
> carbon-rich and known to contain? graphite and
> diamonds.
> 
> The super-hard diamonds were created when graphite? in
> the meteorite
> experienced the intense heat and pressure of entering
> the? Earth's 
> atmosphere and crashing into the ground. The graphite
> layers would? 
> have been heated and shocked enough to create bonds between
> them, in? 
> much the same way as humans manufacture
> diamonds.
> 
> The new carbon? crystals were too small to test for
> precise hardness but
> they are known to be? harder than normal diamonds
> because the researchers
> found them by using a? diamond paste to polish a slice
> of the meteorite.
> The crystals were raised? more than 10 ?m above the
> polished surface,
> which meant they were harder than? the diamonds in the
> polishing paste.
> The researchers had seen carbon crystals? that
> resisted the diamond
> polishing in one direction before, but the new?
> crystals were unaffected
> when polished in every direction.
> 
> The? scientists then used an array of mineralogical
> instruments,
> including? microscopy, spectroscopy and
> energy-dispersive X-rays among
> others, to study? the structure of the crystals. This
> allowed them to
> identify them as? representing two new carbon
> polymorphs or diamond
> polytypes.
> 
> One is an? ultra-hard rhombohedral carbon polymorph
> similar to diamond,
> while the other? is a 21R diamond polytype ultra-hard
> diamond. The
> existence of ultra-hard? diamonds had been predicted
> decades ago, but
> they have never before been? found in nature. The
> novel form consists of
> fused graphite sheets similar to? artificial diamond.
> 
> Professor Tristan Ferroir, leader of the research?
> team from the
> Universit? de Lyon in France, said the discovery was?
> accidental, but
> they had thought an examination of the meteorite would
> "lead? to new
> findings on the carbon system."
> 
> Professor Ferroir said there is? currently no way to
> compare the
> structure of the new crystals to boron? nitride and
> lonsdaleite, the 
> artificially manufactured ultra-hard diamonds,? but
> the findings help 
> scientists gain a better understanding of carbon?
> polymorphs and give 
> them new materials to investigate and perhaps?
> synthesize. They also 
> show the carbon system is more complex than
> previously? thought.
> 
> The findings on the new diamond were published in the
> Earth? and
> Planetary Science Letters journal on February 15.
> 
> More? information:*? http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.epsl.2009.12.015
> ______________________________________________
> Visit? the Archives at? 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list? mailing? list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list???
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 03:08:23 2010
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:08:23 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W37A889BBC9EC45528F4907A4550@phx.gbl>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W37A889BBC9EC45528F4907A4550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <93aaac891002040008sca5914ep7fb51e37feab468c@mail.gmail.com>

Erik, All,

> Jason if you want to twist and distort things than buy silly putty.

If I said anything untrue, by all means call me out on it.  But using
blanket statements like "you twist things" is a substanceless and
ultimately meaningless thing to do; I can call you an idiot, but if I
say only that, well, someone who values my opinion might think you an
idiot, but in the end, I haven't really said anything relevant or
meaningful.

I merely pointed out that many of the arguments that Robert used were
flawed.  If disagreeing with someone, pointing out the flaws in their
arguments, and then making a few of my own is "twisting and
distorting" things, then...well, you're going to have a hell of a time
getting along with people with whom you disagree, because even if they
like discussing such things, you'll just piss them off with your trite
comments.

>Works great for holding meteorites for photographs or display.? I recommend clay more but then you wouldn't be able to twist >and distort it as easily.? Your choice will have to depend on how much of a challenge you want. Just make sure it doesn't slip >into the cracks in the meteorite as it will be hard to clean out!

Again, you're not even addressing what I said, but merely using
blanket statements aimed at insulting me.
This isn't a good way to go about a counter-argument, because you're
merely attacking my credibility, presumably because you have no good
rebuttal.  In any sort of a formal debate, you'd lose a lot of points
for this.

> Gun crimes will decrease if fire arms are made illegal but also if the psycho gunman is out gunned that he won't initiate a massacre.

Hardly.  If you look at all of the more infamous "rampages" in the
past, practically none were stopped by civilian gunmen.  It was always
police action that took care of the issue in the end - or the shooter,
who turned the gun on his or herself.

>Iv'e never heard of a massacre at a gun show, or in a police head quarters where there were groups of armed persons...? Why is that Jason?

Well, there are a few problems with this train of thought -
1) most massacres occur in places and claim the lives of people who
were close to the killer - namely because they felt wronged by certain
people close to them, etc.
2) thus there are a high number of school shootings, university
shootings, office shootings, etc.
3) unless someone had a problem with gun shows, a police station, or a
number of people at either venue, and was willing to lay their life on
the line to kill the folks there, the person's not going to do it
4) along those lines I think it would be unlikely for someone to stage
a shooting at a gun show because, while it's a political issue, gun
control is precisely that - it ties less into morals and more into
politics - unlike abortion, gay marriage, etc.
5) similarly, while many people have a problem with the police, they
typically try to avoid them because it's a well known fact that
they're good with firearms.  Which means that massacres don't happen
there because police stop them, but because everyone knows it would be
a rather quick ending.
6) Even if someone has a gun visible on their person, if I had one,
and, say, wanted their money, or to kill them, they wouldn't have a
chance in hell of surviving, because they wouldn't see me coming.
It's one thing to walk up to a police station and start shooting.
It's another to walk up behind someone with a gun in your pocket and
put it to the back of their head.

But that's the point, isn't it.  If one of those people decided to
target *you,* even if you had a gun, it wouldn't make much of a
difference, unless you saw them coming, realized their intent, and
were able to literally outdraw them.  So unless they're a complete
idiot, you're as good as dead.

> Your debate can be reversed as well.? If we take away weapons, gun crimes will decrease.

True.

>Also, If we urge and train >citizens to carry fire arms, gun crimes will decrease.

False.  Higher availability means greater access to guns (more crimes
as well) and greater number of accidents regardless of training.

If there were fewer cars on the road, adding more cars and training
drivers more might decrease the percentage of accidents relative to
the number of drivers, but the overall number of accidents would go up
overall.  As can be seen with the increase in automobile crashes with
greater numbers of cars and drivers, in the face of the advent of
standardized (and increasingly stringent) licensing policies in the
US.

And since we base gun-crimes statistics on population versus crimes,
as opposed to the number of guns in the area versus crimes, that means
that crime rates would increase.

>We can find exceptions to either case.? If we take away guns, then >only people who buy illegal guns will have guns and  >people will be defenseless.

Most people are "defenseless" right now anyways.  And guess what --
those people are less likely to be shat than you, a gun owner, are:

http://www.guninformation.org/

"Self defense is not a good argument against gun control since those
who own firearms are actually more likely to be victims of homicide.
Two studies published in The New England Journal of Medicine revealed
that keeping a gun in the home increases the risk of both suicide and
homicide. Keeping a gun in the home makes it 2.7 times more likely
that someone will be a victim of homicide in your home (in almost all
cases the victim is either related to or intimately acquainted with
the murderer) (source) and 4.8 times more likely that someone will
commit suicide (source). Guns make it more likely that a suicide
attempt will be successful than if other means were used such as
sleeping pills."

And the fact remains that your chances of dying in an armed robbery
are higher if you own a gun.  Your logic is simply off on this one.

> If we urge citizens to carry fire arms, >accidents involving guns will increase.
> I think it's best to keep it the way it is: if you want to own one, do, if you don't, don't.
> Govern your safety or depend on someone else too.? The freedom of choice.

By all means; I'm not trying to take your right away.  It just pisses
me off when people on the list go and make childish statements like
the photos that have been posted - not to mention the fact that they
keep posting their points of view and then saying "but this shouldn't
be on the list, so don't reply on here."
I agree; this shouldn't be on the list.  I stopped replying to this a
while ago, but recent posts have just annoyed me to the point of
actually speaking out again.  If you want to stop the posts, stop
posting.  Jesus.

> Gun owner are violent and those who don't own guns are neurotic.? Right? Wrong...

No one said that.  To quote someone who messaged me privately,
-----

"You make some good points. What people don't understand is that the
2nd Amendment was not written with the intention of granting us the
right to run around, acting like complete idiots with a total lack of
maturity and responsibility. What amazes me is that, at least here X,
anyone can go to a gun store and purchase a firearm WITHOUT being
certified in gun safety and handling. If I would see an "Average Joe"
(..and I never have) walking down the street here in X, dressed in
novelty camo pants with a gun on his belt... that would tend to make
me a little nervous. Why? Because I wouldn't know what kind of formal
training he has, what his intentions are, or whether or not he is
mentally fit to do so. All of these people, particularly in "the
country", who strut around with a gun on their waist just "because I
can" really do tend to piss me off. I'd like to see them try that in
the inner city - they wouldn't last 10 minutes before getting shot
from behind and robbed of their gun and valuables. There was actually
a "gun rights" demonstration here not too long ago - all of these
"cool" hicks and rednecks (stereotype? maybe, maybe not) gathered,
some dressed in fake camo or dark "SWAT" style pants, wishing they
were an actual figure of authority, someone important - someone who I
actually have deep respect for; Police officers. Soldiers. Anyone
whose profession and dedication is to protect and serve with their
extensive training and valor. I am comfortable around them. If some of
these people could witness (first hand), at least once, the
destruction that even a single gunshot can have on the human body...
perhaps they would have more respect for the power to which they
behold."
-----

Pretty much sums up my point of view.  Guns have a purpose.  *You*
don't need them for that purpose, and they're for all intensive
purposes actually making the odds higher that you'll die from a gun,
whether it's yours or someone else's.  That's where everything you say
falls apart; you keep insisting they're good tools for self defense
when studies show that you're actually at a greater risk for having
one.  Go figure.

>The topic is elegant, simple and complex at the same time.  Much like the structure of each chondrule. No view is right or >wrong, only the delivery of the view.

Just...wow.  All I've seen so far is a bunch of folks who are in
denial about the fact that the toys they like to play with are used
for murder, and that having them around makes its happening all the
more likely.
Hardly elegant or simple.

Jason

> [Erik]
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:13:44 -0800
>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>> To: ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
>>
>> Robert, All,
>>
>>
>>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>>> when they leave the factory.
>>
>>
>> Well, they're not toys and they're not meant to defend against
>> anything - at least, anything other than someone else with a gun. And
>> they're not used for anything else, really...though I suppose you
>> could use one as a hammer if the situation called for it.
>> So, killing tools. Yeah. You don't eat off them, you don't really do
>> anything constructive with them....they kill.
>> That's about it.
>>
>> Hell, by your logic, a hammer isn't a building tool. It's....well, if
>> I look at what you write below, it's just a piece of metal and
>> wood/plastic. And a car isn't a transportation vehicle -
>> it's....metal, plastic, glass, and rubber.
>>
>> Kind of a crappy semantics argument.
>>
>>
>>> They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>>
>>
>> Piece of metal and plastic that, with the push of a button, can end
>> someone's life. Granted, as you say, a machete would also suffice,
>> but I don't think we had too many machete deaths here in the US last
>> year, though there are a great many machetes. You're simply ignoring
>> the fact that guns make it easier to kill someone, and that's a fact
>> that's clearly reflected in crime statistics.
>>
>>
>>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects.
>>
>>
>> Right, but standing in front of someone, squeezing your finger, and
>> shouting "bang!" is hardly going to get the job done. Of course,
>> knives/machetes would also suffice, but, I'll say it again: it's
>> easier to pull a trigger at someone from ten feet away than it is to
>> slide a knife between their ribs while they try to fight you off.
>> Of course, if you're just using the "inanimate object" line, we can
>> throw all sorts of things into the mix - nuclear bombs, grenades,
>> ballistic missiles, etc. All inanimate. You seem to be saying that
>> the fact that they're inanimate means that people should be allowed to
>> have them because they cause no innate harm. Following that logic,
>> you should have no problem with everyone having their own backyard
>> nuke. But for some reason that seems ridiculous...I don't understand
>> it. Somehow a great many people have decided that owning devices
>> whose sole purpose is to kill is actually an innocent endeavor -- to a
>> point. When the objects' ability to kill more than ~10-20 people with
>> the push of a button, we stop and say that it's too dangerous.
>> Apparently guns aren't *quite* dangerous enough.
>> It doesn't make any sense.
>> And while the suggestion that everyone have their own nuke may seem
>> preposterous on the surface, it has some merit - they, too, are
>> inanimate objects whose sole purpose is to kill. For some reason we
>> as a population have decided that there's some arbitrary limit to the
>> amount of killing power we want to leave in the hands of the average
>> citizen; assault rifles, yes, and maybe even the odd grenade, but
>> beyond that...it's prohibited.
>>>From an absolute standpoint, this makes no sense. If you're not going
>> to need to shoot someone or something, you shouldn't have a gun. We
>> give them to soldiers for a reason. And there's a reason we don't
>> give the average soldier a nuke.
>> But soldiers are trained, generally don't carry their guns in public
>> (at least in the US), and are, for the most part, psychologically
>> screened.
>> Though the odd nut does get through.
>> Of course, what you're really saying is that guns are merely innocent
>> bystanders to crimes in which they're used.
>>
>> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572305,00.html
>>
>> So this is where I'll post a link - and I know it happens more often
>> in schools than in army bases, but, it still illustrates a point.
>> This one man, with the aid of a gun, was able to kill 12 people and
>> injure 31 others. While he may have been able to do as much with a
>> machete or a knife...I doubt it. At the very least, you can run away
>> from a man with a knife. It's hard to outrun a bullet.
>>
>>
>>> So Mr. G, I have
>>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>>> think I am a morbid person.
>>
>>
>> Anything but - but I'd have to say that you value the thrill of owning
>> a weapon more than you value the increased risk of your being murdered
>> in this country because of them. And that's fine, but you're going to
>> have to understand that some people here disagree with you.
>>
>>
>>> You say we should not offend our European
>>> friends with our rights and traditions?
>>
>>
>> Well, using the word "right" here introduces a great deal of
>> ambiguity. You could be referring to a legal or moral right, which
>> are very different from each other. One suggests that we're all
>> entitled to own guns, and the other suggests that American law
>> dictates that we can own guns, regardless of whether it is "right" or
>> "wrong." One is indisputable, and the other is highly questionable.
>> Of course, justifying something by saying that it's a tradition isn't
>> that good of an argument; slavery used to be a good-old American
>> tradition, as were many other practices we now consider to be
>> outdated, polygamy among them, depending on where you're from (some
>> places in Arizona approve).
>>
>>
>>> Growing up I spent my summers
>>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>>> delete.
>>
>>
>> This is such a strange analogy that I really don't know what to make
>> of it. You're comparing the fact that people here dislike guns
>> because of the higher murder, crime, and suicide rates that go along
>> with them, to the fact that you saw horrible things in Africa and put
>> them out of mind.
>> Well, living in America, where many people do tend to own guns, it's
>> hard to "push delete" and make them all disappear. Namely because I
>> live here. It's one thing to say that tragic things happen a place
>> that's horribly governed with little law, and it's another to say that
>> we have guns here, in my homeland, and people dislike it.
>> Very different. Very, very different.
>> Honestly, bad analogy.
>>
>>> I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>>> murdered with machete's.
>>
>>
>> Here's a good page:
>>
>> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
>>
>> For a country with more guns *and better infrastructure* than any
>> other, we're not doing too well on the charts - unless you think the
>> top spot's a good one to hold.
>> You just compared the US to Rwanda.
>> Again, bad analogy. I'd like to point out that if they'd had as many
>> guns in Rwanda as we have here in the US, barring munition shortages,
>> it's highly likely that more than 800,000 people would have died.
>> Just pointing it out....
>>
>>
>>> I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm.
>>
>>
>> Just as fast...maybe, but...you're a fool if you're comparing stabbing
>> someone to shooting them.
>> I'll say it again --
>> It's one thing to pull a trigger, and it's another to slit someone's
>> throat. I've known a few people in my life who have pulled a trigger
>> one someone else, and I know for a fact that none of them have ever
>> gone after someone with a knife. It really does take a different sort
>> of person.
>>
>>
>>> Peter
>>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too.
>>
>>
>> Eh, it's a culture that people tend to view negatively, but every
>> culture has its drawbacks. "Redneck" crap aside, I think that it's
>> generally a stupid thing to own a gun, as supported by statistics
>> which suggest that you're more than twice as likely to die from murder
>> or suicide if you own one.
>> Again, that's your choice to make, but...it also means that there are
>> thousands of guns around me thanks to people like you, meaning that
>> all of the people like you who made that same choice are upping the
>> odds that I'll be held up by some fellow while walking back from the
>> library late at night, which isn't that cool, in my opinion.
>>
>>
>>> I trust
>>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>>> "morbid guns" in them.
>>
>>
>> This is such a strange comment that I really don't have much to say
>> about it...apparently I'm not allowed to see violent films because I
>> believe that people generally aren't "right" in their decision to own
>> guns, needlessly increasing the risk that they and others will die.
>> Of course, if I want to turn that back on you I could simply ask you
>> whether you've seen any apocalyptic films, because if you have, surely
>> you're an advocate of the destruction of the world.......
>> Ugh.
>>
>>
>>> Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>>> PETA people can have there turn.
>>
>>
>> For someone advocating peoples' not posting their opinions and just
>> pushing the delete button, you're doing a lot to push your own opinion
>> on others.
>>
>> It's posts like these that piss me off more than anything else; trying
>> to get the last word in while telling others to leave it alone.
>>
>> I'll end with this - I read it somewhere and it stuck with me.
>>
>> "Glasses don't see: people see."
>>
>> - A good argument for the abolishment of glasses, no?
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Robert Ward
>> ?wrote:
>>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
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>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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>


From scharmit at pt.lu  Thu Feb  4 03:33:31 2010
From: scharmit at pt.lu (Rene Schmit)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:33:31 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] dubious 'iron' on e-bay
In-Reply-To: <177122B429DD4D1880D4107C33947300@LintoniusLaptop>
References: <969849.46645.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<177122B429DD4D1880D4107C33947300@LintoniusLaptop>
Message-ID: <001b01caa574$bb92cd30$32b86790$@lu>

Hi Linton,

Slag is possible, I thing it is not even a good Mewteorite wrong.

Greatings, Rene

 

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Linton
Rohr
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Februar 2010 19:39
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] dubious 'iron' on e-bay

Good day list,
I've been searching for meteorites from Utah on e-bay for quite some time, 
and an ad came up a few days  ago for an alleged iron.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110487777840&ssPageName=S
TRK:MEWAX:IT
The seller clearly doesn't know what he's talking about (not that I'm all 
that knowledgable). His grandfather found the 'rock', but apparently no 
testing or analysis was ever done. To me, it looks like some kind of manmade

material, slag perhaps. But the photos don't blow up and I can't discern any

detail. Would anyone care to share an opinion? I'd appreciate it.
Linton - thoroughly enjoying Tucson! 

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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From steve.dunklee at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 04:06:24 2010
From: steve.dunklee at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:06:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <93aaac891002040008sca5914ep7fb51e37feab468c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <974390.85698.qm@web113902.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

If you check the CDC records. HIV aids is the single leading cause of death for people 18 to 45. Second on the list is Automobile accidents. the third leading cause is suicide. deaths from firearms including suicides doesn't even make the top 20. the most common object for murder is blunt objects like hammers, pipes,rocks etc. if you do a deep search in the CDC you will find death by asteroid as being in the top 5 of possible near extinction events. The information keeps changing each time things are updated.
    I know a lot of people find firearms disturbing but they are only a tool. Guns don't kill people, its the person pulling the trigger. I hunt using rifles and pistols. I support the NRA, I have been in both the military and Law enforcement and have been a small arms trainer for SRT MOUT operations as well as an SRT team leader.
   Firearms can be fun and exciting, punching holes in targets over 1000 meters is a challenge. Try hitting the bottom of a loaded shotgun shell at distances over 500 meters.
  I find getting into my truck every day a lot more dangerous than any gun I own. Most suicides are done with a piece of rope. should we control rope?
   Enough said, I think it is time to just agree that we disagree. and move on to other topics.
  Have a great day
Steve

--- On Thu, 2/4/10, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
> To: "Erik Fisler" <erikfwebb at msn.com>, "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 8:08 AM
> Erik, All,
> 
> > Jason if you want to twist and distort things than buy
> silly putty.
> 
> If I said anything untrue, by all means call me out on
> it.? But using
> blanket statements like "you twist things" is a
> substanceless and
> ultimately meaningless thing to do; I can call you an
> idiot, but if I
> say only that, well, someone who values my opinion might
> think you an
> idiot, but in the end, I haven't really said anything
> relevant or
> meaningful.
> 
> I merely pointed out that many of the arguments that Robert
> used were
> flawed.? If disagreeing with someone, pointing out the
> flaws in their
> arguments, and then making a few of my own is "twisting
> and
> distorting" things, then...well, you're going to have a
> hell of a time
> getting along with people with whom you disagree, because
> even if they
> like discussing such things, you'll just piss them off with
> your trite
> comments.
> 
> >Works great for holding meteorites for photographs or
> display.? I recommend clay more but then you wouldn't be
> able to twist >and distort it as easily.? Your choice
> will have to depend on how much of a challenge you want.
> Just make sure it doesn't slip >into the cracks in the
> meteorite as it will be hard to clean out!
> 
> Again, you're not even addressing what I said, but merely
> using
> blanket statements aimed at insulting me.
> This isn't a good way to go about a counter-argument,
> because you're
> merely attacking my credibility, presumably because you
> have no good
> rebuttal.? In any sort of a formal debate, you'd lose
> a lot of points
> for this.
> 
> > Gun crimes will decrease if fire arms are made illegal
> but also if the psycho gunman is out gunned that he won't
> initiate a massacre.
> 
> Hardly.? If you look at all of the more infamous
> "rampages" in the
> past, practically none were stopped by civilian
> gunmen.? It was always
> police action that took care of the issue in the end - or
> the shooter,
> who turned the gun on his or herself.
> 
> >Iv'e never heard of a massacre at a gun show, or in a
> police head quarters where there were groups of armed
> persons...? Why is that Jason?
> 
> Well, there are a few problems with this train of thought
> -
> 1) most massacres occur in places and claim the lives of
> people who
> were close to the killer - namely because they felt wronged
> by certain
> people close to them, etc.
> 2) thus there are a high number of school shootings,
> university
> shootings, office shootings, etc.
> 3) unless someone had a problem with gun shows, a police
> station, or a
> number of people at either venue, and was willing to lay
> their life on
> the line to kill the folks there, the person's not going to
> do it
> 4) along those lines I think it would be unlikely for
> someone to stage
> a shooting at a gun show because, while it's a political
> issue, gun
> control is precisely that - it ties less into morals and
> more into
> politics - unlike abortion, gay marriage, etc.
> 5) similarly, while many people have a problem with the
> police, they
> typically try to avoid them because it's a well known fact
> that
> they're good with firearms.? Which means that
> massacres don't happen
> there because police stop them, but because everyone knows
> it would be
> a rather quick ending.
> 6) Even if someone has a gun visible on their person, if I
> had one,
> and, say, wanted their money, or to kill them, they
> wouldn't have a
> chance in hell of surviving, because they wouldn't see me
> coming.
> It's one thing to walk up to a police station and start
> shooting.
> It's another to walk up behind someone with a gun in your
> pocket and
> put it to the back of their head.
> 
> But that's the point, isn't it.? If one of those
> people decided to
> target *you,* even if you had a gun, it wouldn't make much
> of a
> difference, unless you saw them coming, realized their
> intent, and
> were able to literally outdraw them.? So unless
> they're a complete
> idiot, you're as good as dead.
> 
> > Your debate can be reversed as well.? If we take away
> weapons, gun crimes will decrease.
> 
> True.
> 
> >Also, If we urge and train >citizens to carry fire
> arms, gun crimes will decrease.
> 
> False.? Higher availability means greater access to
> guns (more crimes
> as well) and greater number of accidents regardless of
> training.
> 
> If there were fewer cars on the road, adding more cars and
> training
> drivers more might decrease the percentage of accidents
> relative to
> the number of drivers, but the overall number of accidents
> would go up
> overall.? As can be seen with the increase in
> automobile crashes with
> greater numbers of cars and drivers, in the face of the
> advent of
> standardized (and increasingly stringent) licensing
> policies in the
> US.
> 
> And since we base gun-crimes statistics on population
> versus crimes,
> as opposed to the number of guns in the area versus crimes,
> that means
> that crime rates would increase.
> 
> >We can find exceptions to either case.? If we take
> away guns, then >only people who buy illegal guns will
> have guns and? >people will be defenseless.
> 
> Most people are "defenseless" right now anyways.? And
> guess what --
> those people are less likely to be shat than you, a gun
> owner, are:
> 
> http://www.guninformation.org/
> 
> "Self defense is not a good argument against gun control
> since those
> who own firearms are actually more likely to be victims of
> homicide.
> Two studies published in The New England Journal of
> Medicine revealed
> that keeping a gun in the home increases the risk of both
> suicide and
> homicide. Keeping a gun in the home makes it 2.7 times more
> likely
> that someone will be a victim of homicide in your home (in
> almost all
> cases the victim is either related to or intimately
> acquainted with
> the murderer) (source) and 4.8 times more likely that
> someone will
> commit suicide (source). Guns make it more likely that a
> suicide
> attempt will be successful than if other means were used
> such as
> sleeping pills."
> 
> And the fact remains that your chances of dying in an armed
> robbery
> are higher if you own a gun.? Your logic is simply off
> on this one.
> 
> > If we urge citizens to carry fire arms, >accidents
> involving guns will increase.
> > I think it's best to keep it the way it is: if you
> want to own one, do, if you don't, don't.
> > Govern your safety or depend on someone else too.?
> The freedom of choice.
> 
> By all means; I'm not trying to take your right away.?
> It just pisses
> me off when people on the list go and make childish
> statements like
> the photos that have been posted - not to mention the fact
> that they
> keep posting their points of view and then saying "but this
> shouldn't
> be on the list, so don't reply on here."
> I agree; this shouldn't be on the list.? I stopped
> replying to this a
> while ago, but recent posts have just annoyed me to the
> point of
> actually speaking out again.? If you want to stop the
> posts, stop
> posting.? Jesus.
> 
> > Gun owner are violent and those who don't own guns are
> neurotic.? Right? Wrong...
> 
> No one said that.? To quote someone who messaged me
> privately,
> -----
> 
> "You make some good points. What people don't understand is
> that the
> 2nd Amendment was not written with the intention of
> granting us the
> right to run around, acting like complete idiots with a
> total lack of
> maturity and responsibility. What amazes me is that, at
> least here X,
> anyone can go to a gun store and purchase a firearm WITHOUT
> being
> certified in gun safety and handling. If I would see an
> "Average Joe"
> (..and I never have) walking down the street here in X,
> dressed in
> novelty camo pants with a gun on his belt... that would
> tend to make
> me a little nervous. Why? Because I wouldn't know what kind
> of formal
> training he has, what his intentions are, or whether or not
> he is
> mentally fit to do so. All of these people, particularly in
> "the
> country", who strut around with a gun on their waist just
> "because I
> can" really do tend to piss me off. I'd like to see them
> try that in
> the inner city - they wouldn't last 10 minutes before
> getting shot
> from behind and robbed of their gun and valuables. There
> was actually
> a "gun rights" demonstration here not too long ago - all of
> these
> "cool" hicks and rednecks (stereotype? maybe, maybe not)
> gathered,
> some dressed in fake camo or dark "SWAT" style pants,
> wishing they
> were an actual figure of authority, someone important -
> someone who I
> actually have deep respect for; Police officers. Soldiers.
> Anyone
> whose profession and dedication is to protect and serve
> with their
> extensive training and valor. I am comfortable around them.
> If some of
> these people could witness (first hand), at least once,
> the
> destruction that even a single gunshot can have on the
> human body...
> perhaps they would have more respect for the power to which
> they
> behold."
> -----
> 
> Pretty much sums up my point of view.? Guns have a
> purpose.? *You*
> don't need them for that purpose, and they're for all
> intensive
> purposes actually making the odds higher that you'll die
> from a gun,
> whether it's yours or someone else's.? That's where
> everything you say
> falls apart; you keep insisting they're good tools for self
> defense
> when studies show that you're actually at a greater risk
> for having
> one.? Go figure.
> 
> >The topic is elegant, simple and complex at the same
> time.? Much like the structure of each chondrule. No
> view is right or >wrong, only the delivery of the view.
> 
> Just...wow.? All I've seen so far is a bunch of folks
> who are in
> denial about the fact that the toys they like to play with
> are used
> for murder, and that having them around makes its happening
> all the
> more likely.
> Hardly elegant or simple.
> 
> Jason
> 
> > [Erik]
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> >> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:13:44 -0800
> >> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> >> To: ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com;
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Firearms related
> posts on a meteorite list
> >>
> >> Robert, All,
> >>
> >>
> >>> I spent three years training at the finest
> firearms institution on the
> >>> planet learning about every aspect of the
> industry, and even designing
> >>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am
> an expert in the field,
> >>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools"
> and "assault rifles"
> >>> when they leave the factory.
> >>
> >>
> >> Well, they're not toys and they're not meant to
> defend against
> >> anything - at least, anything other than someone
> else with a gun. And
> >> they're not used for anything else,
> really...though I suppose you
> >> could use one as a hammer if the situation called
> for it.
> >> So, killing tools. Yeah. You don't eat off them,
> you don't really do
> >> anything constructive with them....they kill.
> >> That's about it.
> >>
> >> Hell, by your logic, a hammer isn't a building
> tool. It's....well, if
> >> I look at what you write below, it's just a piece
> of metal and
> >> wood/plastic. And a car isn't a transportation
> vehicle -
> >> it's....metal, plastic, glass, and rubber.
> >>
> >> Kind of a crappy semantics argument.
> >>
> >>
> >>> They are pieces of metal and plastic,
> >>
> >>
> >> Piece of metal and plastic that, with the push of
> a button, can end
> >> someone's life. Granted, as you say, a machete
> would also suffice,
> >> but I don't think we had too many machete deaths
> here in the US last
> >> year, though there are a great many machetes.
> You're simply ignoring
> >> the fact that guns make it easier to kill someone,
> and that's a fact
> >> that's clearly reflected in crime statistics.
> >>
> >>
> >>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate
> objects.
> >>
> >>
> >> Right, but standing in front of someone, squeezing
> your finger, and
> >> shouting "bang!" is hardly going to get the job
> done. Of course,
> >> knives/machetes would also suffice, but, I'll say
> it again: it's
> >> easier to pull a trigger at someone from ten feet
> away than it is to
> >> slide a knife between their ribs while they try to
> fight you off.
> >> Of course, if you're just using the "inanimate
> object" line, we can
> >> throw all sorts of things into the mix - nuclear
> bombs, grenades,
> >> ballistic missiles, etc. All inanimate. You seem
> to be saying that
> >> the fact that they're inanimate means that people
> should be allowed to
> >> have them because they cause no innate harm.
> Following that logic,
> >> you should have no problem with everyone having
> their own backyard
> >> nuke. But for some reason that seems
> ridiculous...I don't understand
> >> it. Somehow a great many people have decided that
> owning devices
> >> whose sole purpose is to kill is actually an
> innocent endeavor -- to a
> >> point. When the objects' ability to kill more than
> ~10-20 people with
> >> the push of a button, we stop and say that it's
> too dangerous.
> >> Apparently guns aren't *quite* dangerous enough.
> >> It doesn't make any sense.
> >> And while the suggestion that everyone have their
> own nuke may seem
> >> preposterous on the surface, it has some merit -
> they, too, are
> >> inanimate objects whose sole purpose is to kill.
> For some reason we
> >> as a population have decided that there's some
> arbitrary limit to the
> >> amount of killing power we want to leave in the
> hands of the average
> >> citizen; assault rifles, yes, and maybe even the
> odd grenade, but
> >> beyond that...it's prohibited.
> >>>From an absolute standpoint, this makes no
> sense. If you're not going
> >> to need to shoot someone or something, you
> shouldn't have a gun. We
> >> give them to soldiers for a reason. And there's a
> reason we don't
> >> give the average soldier a nuke.
> >> But soldiers are trained, generally don't carry
> their guns in public
> >> (at least in the US), and are, for the most part,
> psychologically
> >> screened.
> >> Though the odd nut does get through.
> >> Of course, what you're really saying is that guns
> are merely innocent
> >> bystanders to crimes in which they're used.
> >>
> >> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572305,00.html
> >>
> >> So this is where I'll post a link - and I know it
> happens more often
> >> in schools than in army bases, but, it still
> illustrates a point.
> >> This one man, with the aid of a gun, was able to
> kill 12 people and
> >> injure 31 others. While he may have been able to
> do as much with a
> >> machete or a knife...I doubt it. At the very
> least, you can run away
> >> from a man with a knife. It's hard to outrun a
> bullet.
> >>
> >>
> >>> So Mr. G, I have
> >>> been involved with firearms my entire life,
> ask my friends if they
> >>> think I am a morbid person.
> >>
> >>
> >> Anything but - but I'd have to say that you value
> the thrill of owning
> >> a weapon more than you value the increased risk of
> your being murdered
> >> in this country because of them. And that's fine,
> but you're going to
> >> have to understand that some people here disagree
> with you.
> >>
> >>
> >>> You say we should not offend our European
> >>> friends with our rights and traditions?
> >>
> >>
> >> Well, using the word "right" here introduces a
> great deal of
> >> ambiguity. You could be referring to a legal or
> moral right, which
> >> are very different from each other. One suggests
> that we're all
> >> entitled to own guns, and the other suggests that
> American law
> >> dictates that we can own guns, regardless of
> whether it is "right" or
> >> "wrong." One is indisputable, and the other is
> highly questionable.
> >> Of course, justifying something by saying that
> it's a tradition isn't
> >> that good of an argument; slavery used to be a
> good-old American
> >> tradition, as were many other practices we now
> consider to be
> >> outdated, polygamy among them, depending on where
> you're from (some
> >> places in Arizona approve).
> >>
> >>
> >>> Growing up I spent my summers
> >>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my
> that are far to morbid to
> >>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing
> my thoughts of these
> >>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if
> that pic offends you push
> >>> delete.
> >>
> >>
> >> This is such a strange analogy that I really don't
> know what to make
> >> of it. You're comparing the fact that people here
> dislike guns
> >> because of the higher murder, crime, and suicide
> rates that go along
> >> with them, to the fact that you saw horrible
> things in Africa and put
> >> them out of mind.
> >> Well, living in America, where many people do tend
> to own guns, it's
> >> hard to "push delete" and make them all disappear.
> Namely because I
> >> live here. It's one thing to say that tragic
> things happen a place
> >> that's horribly governed with little law, and it's
> another to say that
> >> we have guns here, in my homeland, and people
> dislike it.
> >> Very different. Very, very different.
> >> Honestly, bad analogy.
> >>
> >>> I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic
> from the FBI
> >>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the
> U.S. in 2002, another
> >>> statistic to compare this to is the great
> genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
> >>> murdered with machete's.
> >>
> >>
> >> Here's a good page:
> >>
> >> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
> >>
> >> For a country with more guns *and better
> infrastructure* than any
> >> other, we're not doing too well on the charts -
> unless you think the
> >> top spot's a good one to hold.
> >> You just compared the US to Rwanda.
> >> Again, bad analogy. I'd like to point out that if
> they'd had as many
> >> guns in Rwanda as we have here in the US, barring
> munition shortages,
> >> it's highly likely that more than 800,000 people
> would have died.
> >> Just pointing it out....
> >>
> >>
> >>> I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
> >>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale
> in several rooms in
> >>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast
> as a firearm.
> >>
> >>
> >> Just as fast...maybe, but...you're a fool if
> you're comparing stabbing
> >> someone to shooting them.
> >> I'll say it again --
> >> It's one thing to pull a trigger, and it's another
> to slit someone's
> >> throat. I've known a few people in my life who
> have pulled a trigger
> >> one someone else, and I know for a fact that none
> of them have ever
> >> gone after someone with a knife. It really does
> take a different sort
> >> of person.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Peter
> >>> Davidson, those who know me would probably
> agree that I am someone
> >>> that could be pigeon holed into some
> Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
> >>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud
> of my heritage growing
> >>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA
> life member too.
> >>
> >>
> >> Eh, it's a culture that people tend to view
> negatively, but every
> >> culture has its drawbacks. "Redneck" crap aside, I
> think that it's
> >> generally a stupid thing to own a gun, as
> supported by statistics
> >> which suggest that you're more than twice as
> likely to die from murder
> >> or suicide if you own one.
> >> Again, that's your choice to make, but...it also
> means that there are
> >> thousands of guns around me thanks to people like
> you, meaning that
> >> all of the people like you who made that same
> choice are upping the
> >> odds that I'll be held up by some fellow while
> walking back from the
> >> library late at night, which isn't that cool, in
> my opinion.
> >>
> >>
> >>> I trust
> >>> that all of you that are so offended by this
> pic do not subscribe to
> >>> cable, or satellite television services, nor
> do you attend movies with
> >>> "morbid guns" in them.
> >>
> >>
> >> This is such a strange comment that I really don't
> have much to say
> >> about it...apparently I'm not allowed to see
> violent films because I
> >> believe that people generally aren't "right" in
> their decision to own
> >> guns, needlessly increasing the risk that they and
> others will die.
> >> Of course, if I want to turn that back on you I
> could simply ask you
> >> whether you've seen any apocalyptic films, because
> if you have, surely
> >> you're an advocate of the destruction of the
> world.......
> >> Ugh.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Grow up, just click delete, and spend this
> much
> >>> time finding some useful input for the
> METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
> >>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my
> collection pieces so the
> >>> PETA people can have there turn.
> >>
> >>
> >> For someone advocating peoples' not posting their
> opinions and just
> >> pushing the delete button, you're doing a lot to
> push your own opinion
> >> on others.
> >>
> >> It's posts like these that piss me off more than
> anything else; trying
> >> to get the last word in while telling others to
> leave it alone.
> >>
> >> I'll end with this - I read it somewhere and it
> stuck with me.
> >>
> >> "Glasses don't see: people see."
> >>
> >> - A good argument for the abolishment of glasses,
> no?
> >>
> >> Jason
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Robert Ward
> >> ?wrote:
> >>> I spent three years training at the finest
> firearms institution on the
> >>> planet learning about every aspect of the
> industry, and even designing
> >>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am
> an expert in the field,
> >>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools"
> and "assault rifles"
> >>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces
> of metal and plastic,
> >>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate
> objects. So Mr. G, I have
> >>> been involved with firearms my entire life,
> ask my friends if they
> >>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should
> not offend our European
> >>> friends with our rights and traditions?
> Growing up I spent my summers
> >>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my
> that are far to morbid to
> >>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing
> my thoughts of these
> >>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if
> that pic offends you push
> >>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a
> statistic from the FBI
> >>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the
> U.S. in 2002, another
> >>> statistic to compare this to is the great
> genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
> >>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the
> right hands some sharp
> >>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale
> in several rooms in
> >>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast
> as a firearm. Peter
> >>> Davidson, those who know me would probably
> agree that I am someone
> >>> that could be pigeon holed into some
> Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
> >>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud
> of my heritage growing
> >>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA
> life member too. I trust
> >>> that all of you that are so offended by this
> pic do not subscribe to
> >>> cable, or satellite television services, nor
> do you attend movies with
> >>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click
> delete, and spend this much
> >>> time finding some useful input for the
> METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
> >>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my
> collection pieces so the
> >>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
> >>>
> ______________________________________________
> >>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>>
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From info at mcomemeteorite.it  Thu Feb  4 04:32:10 2010
From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:32:10 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
Message-ID: <4b6a941a.126.6729.150731388@webmaildh3.ad.aruba.it>

its 17 years I use firearms and never kill a person or shot
me for mistake, to the opposite one of some Vigilantes work
in public they are real dangers when they have a gun in the
hand, I seen when they come in the shooting camp for
training...all depend from the brain

matteo


----- Original Message -----
Da : Steve Dunklee <steve.dunklee at yahoo.com>
A : Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>, Meteorite-list
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, Jason Utas
<meteoritekid at gmail.com>
Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a
meteorite list
Data : Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:06:24 -0800 (PST)

> If you check the CDC records. HIV aids is the single
> leading cause of death for people 18 to 45. Second on the
> list is Automobile accidents. the third leading cause is
> suicide. deaths from firearms including suicides doesn't
> even make the top 20. the most common object for murder is
> blunt objects like hammers, pipes,rocks etc. if you do a
> deep search in the CDC you will find death by asteroid as
> being in the top 5 of possible near extinction events. The
> information keeps changing each time things are updated.
>     I know a lot of people find firearms disturbing but
> they are only a tool. Guns don't kill people, its the
> person pulling the trigger. I hunt using rifles and
> pistols. I support the NRA, I have been in both the
> military and Law enforcement and have been a small arms
> trainer for SRT MOUT operations as well as an SRT team
> leader.
>    Firearms can be fun and exciting, punching holes in
> targets over 1000 meters is a challenge. Try hitting the
> bottom of a loaded shotgun shell at distances over 500
> meters.
>   I find getting into my truck every day a lot more
> dangerous than any gun I own. Most suicides are done with
> a piece of rope. should we control rope?
>    Enough said, I think it is time to just agree that we
> disagree. and move on to other topics.
>   Have a great day
> Steve
>

M come Meteorite Meteoriti
info at mcomemeteorite.it
http://www.mcomemeteorite.it
http://www.mcomemeteorite.org
Mindat Gallery
http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html
ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici
http://www.chinellatophoto.com


From meteoritics at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 06:03:45 2010
From: meteoritics at gmail.com (Bill Hall)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 03:03:45 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball across Ireland as meteorite crashes to
	earth
Message-ID: <883a36d31002040303r3b414ea1g8fec3a893c41e580@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/With-video-Fireball-across-Ireland-as-meteorite-crashes-to-earth--83473997.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_source=twitter


From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Thu Feb  4 07:08:00 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:08:00 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W37A889BBC9EC45528F4907A4550@phx.gbl>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>,
	<93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W37A889BBC9EC45528F4907A4550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001f01caa592$b3f66c80$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Erik,

please never use putty for meteorites.
Especially not with stone meteorites.

The oils and softeners of these putties, even if recommended by mineral
people, are going with time deep into the stone, making huge blackish
irreversible stains.

I had some customers, who ruined half of their collections and unfortunately
many historic pieces among them, having them fixed with putty in their
boxes.

Best,
Martin


>Jason if you want to twist and distort things than buy silly putty. Works
>great for holding meteorites for photographs or display.? 



From almitt at kconline.com  Thu Feb  4 07:26:34 2010
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 07:26:34 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Yields Carbon Crystals Harder
	ThanDiamond
In-Reply-To: <968783.98967.qm@web113917.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <968783.98967.qm@web113917.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DD2D2A05637344769A89C2CC904FE055@StarmanPC>


Greetings all,

I seriously doubt that the diamonds formed from pressure and heat entering
the Earth's Atmosphere. The interior of meteorites usually stay cold all the
way to the ground, except for rare acceptions.

Diamonds from impact would be another story.

--AL Mitterling
>From Sunny Tucson 




From almitt at kconline.com  Thu Feb  4 06:57:05 2010
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:57:05 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Yields Carbon Crystals Harder
	ThanDiamond
In-Reply-To: <201002040123.o141Nk1x011759@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <201002040123.o141Nk1x011759@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <258DA6B95A524EFF93C33A9EFD655F2A@StarmanPC>

Greetings all,

I seriously doubt that the diamonds formed from pressure and heat entering 
the Earth's Atmosphere. The interior of meteorites usually stay cold all the 
way to the ground, except for rare acceptions.

Diamonds from impact would be another story.

--AL Mitterling
>From Sunny Tucson


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Baalke" <baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:23 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Yields Carbon Crystals Harder 
ThanDiamond

>experienced the intense heat and pressure of entering the Earth's
>atmosphere and crashing into the ground. The graphite layers would
>have been heated and shocked enough to create bonds between them, in
>much the same way as humans manufacture
>diamonds.




From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 07:43:41 2010
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne Delray)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 05:43:41 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
In-Reply-To: <001f01caa592$b3f66c80$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>,
	<93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W37A889BBC9EC45528F4907A4550@phx.gbl>
	<001f01caa592$b3f66c80$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <5EDCA440-008B-463A-99F1-D691C318E30D@gmail.com>

Martin,
Does the mineral tack do this as well? I have never heard of this,  
good to know.
Leigh Anne

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 4, 2010, at 5:08 AM, "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de 
 > wrote:

> Erik,
>
> please never use putty for meteorites.
> Especially not with stone meteorites.
>
> The oils and softeners of these putties, even if recommended by  
> mineral
> people, are going with time deep into the stone, making huge blackish
> irreversible stains.
>
> I had some customers, who ruined half of their collections and  
> unfortunately
> many historic pieces among them, having them fixed with putty in their
> boxes.
>
> Best,
> Martin
>
>
>> Jason if you want to twist and distort things than buy silly putty.  
>> Works
>> great for holding meteorites for photographs or display.
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From axelsson at acc.umu.se  Thu Feb  4 08:18:38 2010
From: axelsson at acc.umu.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Axelsson?=)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:18:38 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Yields Carbon Crystals Harder Than
 Diamond
In-Reply-To: <201002040123.o141Nk1x011759@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <201002040123.o141Nk1x011759@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <4B6AC92E.3010107@acc.umu.se>

This article seems to be lacking in two parts.

As already stated, the pressure from atmosphere entry is too low to 
create diamonds.

The second part I reacted to was the statement
 "The crystals were raised more than 10 ?m above the polished surface, 
which meant they were harder than the diamonds in the polishing paste."

That is plainly wrong. If a hard mineral like ordinary diamonds is 
embedded in a softer material, for example some silicate minerals then 
the silicates will be removed at a faster pace than the harder diamonds 
which rises above the surrounding surface.

Maybe it's just a problem with the interpretation of the original 
article by the physorg writer....
Oh, I think it is. The abstract never claims higher hardness than 
diamond, "... were not easily polishable by a diamond paste and would 
therefore imply larger polishing hardness."
I guess that the part about atmosphere is also an error made by physorg, 
not the original researcher. I read it as "... larger polishing hardness 
[than surrounding material]."

Original abstract at :
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V61-4Y4XCTH-3&_user=10&_coverDate=02%2F15%2F2010&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d8d1010a5c82833bfc75265887d7cf8a

Too bad I can't access the full article. :-(

/G?ran

Ron Baalke wrote:
> http://www.physorg.com/news184402061.html    
>
> Meteorite yields carbon crystals harder than diamond
> by Lin Edwards
> physorg.com
> February 3, 2010 
>
> (PhysOrg.com) -- Two new types of ultra-hard carbon crystals have been
> found by researchers investigating the ureilite class Haver? meteorite
> that crashed to Earth in Finland in 1971. Ureilite meteorites are
> carbon-rich and known to contain graphite and diamonds.
>
> The super-hard diamonds were created when graphite in the meteorite
> experienced the intense heat and pressure of entering the Earth's 
> atmosphere and crashing into the ground. The graphite layers would 
> have been heated and shocked enough to create bonds between them, in 
> much the same way as humans manufacture
> diamonds.
>
> The new carbon crystals were too small to test for precise hardness but
> they are known to be harder than normal diamonds because the researchers
> found them by using a diamond paste to polish a slice of the meteorite.
> The crystals were raised more than 10 ?m above the polished surface,
> which meant they were harder than the diamonds in the polishing paste.
> The researchers had seen carbon crystals that resisted the diamond
> polishing in one direction before, but the new crystals were unaffected
> when polished in every direction.
>
> The scientists then used an array of mineralogical instruments,
> including microscopy, spectroscopy and energy-dispersive X-rays among
> others, to study the structure of the crystals. This allowed them to
> identify them as representing two new carbon polymorphs or diamond
> polytypes.
>
> One is an ultra-hard rhombohedral carbon polymorph similar to diamond,
> while the other is a 21R diamond polytype ultra-hard diamond. The
> existence of ultra-hard diamonds had been predicted decades ago, but
> they have never before been found in nature. The novel form consists of
> fused graphite sheets similar to artificial diamond.
>
> Professor Tristan Ferroir, leader of the research team from the
> Universit? de Lyon in France, said the discovery was accidental, but
> they had thought an examination of the meteorite would "lead to new
> findings on the carbon system."
>
> Professor Ferroir said there is currently no way to compare the
> structure of the new crystals to boron nitride and lonsdaleite, the 
> artificially manufactured ultra-hard diamonds, but the findings help 
> scientists gain a better understanding of carbon polymorphs and give 
> them new materials to investigate and perhaps synthesize. They also 
> show the carbon system is more complex than previously thought.
>
> The findings on the new diamond were published in the Earth and
> Planetary Science Letters journal on February 15.
>
> More information:* http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.epsl.2009.12.015
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   



From fujmon at mac.com  Thu Feb  4 08:40:38 2010
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 06:40:38 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] First video of Ireland fireball
Message-ID: <BDCFBD1A-FA63-488C-8457-DF2CD1708783@mac.com>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE8-BvSgTJk

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
(808) 640-9161







From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 08:46:47 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 05:46:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] First video of Ireland fireball
In-Reply-To: <BDCFBD1A-FA63-488C-8457-DF2CD1708783@mac.com>
Message-ID: <828925.33481.qm@web113614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hey Gary.

If you look closely the smoke returns to the object. It strikes me as a rocket launch with the footage run backwards.

If you read the comments by the person who posted it (upper right) he states it is not the fireball.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 2/4/10, Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com> wrote:

> From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] First video of Ireland fireball
> To: "MeteorList" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 6:40 AM
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE8-BvSgTJk
> 
> Gary Fujihara
> Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
> 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
> http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
> http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html? 
> (808) 640-9161
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From fujmon at mac.com  Thu Feb  4 08:49:42 2010
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 06:49:42 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] First video of Ireland fireball
In-Reply-To: <828925.33481.qm@web113614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <828925.33481.qm@web113614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C2FD1FA6-CC31-40E9-AEE7-5908EDB06D44@mac.com>

Thanks Richard.  My bad, and stand corrected.  At least it was slightly more entertaining than this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkjBVZRQcgA   ;^)

On Feb 4, 2010, at 6:46 AM, Richard Kowalski wrote:

> Hey Gary.
> 
> If you look closely the smoke returns to the object. It strikes me as a rocket launch with the footage run backwards.
> 
> If you read the comments by the person who posted it (upper right) he states it is not the fireball.
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Full Moon Photography
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 2/4/10, Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com> wrote:
> 
>> From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] First video of Ireland fireball
>> To: "MeteorList" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 6:40 AM
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE8-BvSgTJk
>> 
>> Gary Fujihara
>> Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
>> 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
>> http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
>> http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
>> (808) 640-9161
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
> 
> 
> 

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
(808) 640-9161







From erikfwebb at msn.com  Thu Feb  4 08:56:53 2010
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:56:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
In-Reply-To: <001f01caa592$b3f66c80$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>, ,
	<93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>,
	<COL119-W37A889BBC9EC45528F4907A4550@phx.gbl>,
	<001f01caa592$b3f66c80$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <COL119-W514920BD70313F7DC7F19FA4550@phx.gbl>


What should I use to prop up stones?

[Erik]

----------------------------------------
> From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:08:00 +0100
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
>
> Erik,
>
> please never use putty for meteorites.
> Especially not with stone meteorites.
>
> The oils and softeners of these putties, even if recommended by mineral
> people, are going with time deep into the stone, making huge blackish
> irreversible stains.
>
> I had some customers, who ruined half of their collections and unfortunately
> many historic pieces among them, having them fixed with putty in their
> boxes.
>
> Best,
> Martin
>
>
>>Jason if you want to twist and distort things than buy silly putty. Works
>>great for holding meteorites for photographs or display.
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  

From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Thu Feb  4 08:58:49 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 05:58:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 4,
	2010
Message-ID: <2088225307.1108911265291929796.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_4_2010.html



From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Thu Feb  4 09:01:05 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul H.)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 8:01:05 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Automatic Detection of Circular Depressions in
 Digital Elevation Data Papers
Message-ID: <20100204090105.KHHJC.813898.imail@eastrmwml38>

Dear Friends,

Two paper on the use of digital elevation models in the 
automated search for meteorite impact structures can be 
downloaded from the Internet. They are:

Krogli, S.O., Dypvik, H. & Etzelmfller, B.: Automatic detection 
of circular depressions in digital elevation data in the search 
for potential Norwegian impact structures. Norwegian Journal 
of Geology, Vol. 87, pp. 157-166.Trondheim. ISSN 029-196X

PDF file at 

http://www.geologi.no/data/f/0/09/75/5_22301_0/Krogli_et_al.pdf
http://www.geologi.no/cgi-bin/geologi/imaker?id=9310&visdybde=2&aktiv=9310

Krogli, S. O., B. Etzelmfller, and H. Dypvik, 2007, Automatic 
and semi-automatic detection of possible meteorite impact 
structures in the Fennoscandian shield using pattern 
recognition of spatial data. Proceedings, ScanGIS?2007 ? 
Proceedings of the 11th Scandinavian Research Conference 
on Geographical Information Sciences. As, Norway.

PDF file at 

http://www.scangis.org/scangis2007/papers/e8_krogli.pdf
http://www.scangis.org/scangis2007/papers/

Yours,

Paul H.


From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net  Thu Feb  4 09:02:43 2010
From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 07:02:43 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>, ,
	<93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>,
	<COL119-W37A889BBC9EC45528F4907A4550@phx.gbl>,
	<001f01caa592$b3f66c80$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
	<COL119-W514920BD70313F7DC7F19FA4550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A315718BD48642DFBE418EE86E2EE8DD@DFZN8X81>

I have a question.  At my Lapidary Club when minerals are cut with a saw 
using oil, even some minerals absorb the oil.  They put them in a box with 
kitty litter and the oil stain comes out.  Would this work for the stained 
meteorites?  I have not tried it yet but do have several  stone meteorite 
specimens which are stained from the putty stuff.
Twink Monrad 



From jkg2 at cox.net  Thu Feb  4 09:25:29 2010
From: jkg2 at cox.net (John Gwilliam)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 07:25:29 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100204142530.NJCG18268.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net>

I've kept quiet on this subject up to now, but since several members 
won't let it die a decent death, here's my perspective.

Kudos to Robert Ward!!!

Take a different look at these pieces of metal, wood and plastic.

I am sensitive to the overall gun issue but believe they are simply 
another tool that can be used for good and bad purposes.  Guns in the 
right hands can do marvelous things.  In the hands of Allied forces 
in the 1940's, these "tools" liberated Europe from a fate that I 
shudder to think what might have been. Over 300,000 American boys 
picked up these "tools" and made the sacrifice to free many nations, 
who couldn't do it themselves, from the horror of dictatorship and genocide.

Back to lurking,

John Gwilliam


At 09:03 PM 2/3/2010, Robert Ward wrote:
>I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>"morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at 
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Regards,

John Gwilliam

Some people are born on third base
and go through life thinking they hit a triple.
                                              [Bob Dylan]  



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 09:25:52 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:25:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	4, 2010
In-Reply-To: <2088225307.1108911265291929796.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <462327.62576.qm@web113613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Cute.

Looks like Sun is sharpening her claws... We have a scratching post for our two...

:)


--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 2/4/10, Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org> wrote:

> From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 4, 2010
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 6:58 AM
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_4_2010.html
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 09:31:00 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:31:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002040631i78fb98acg5196995fa8adda80@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Robert and List,

Ok everyone, this is getting tiresome.

We are all overlooking the obvious - it was poor judgement on Michael
Johnson's part to post that photo.  Period.  Regardless of one's views
on guns, this List is global and that photo was bound to stir up
trouble - it doesn't take a psychic or mind reader to know that.
Posting that photo was essentially a troll - perhaps not intentional,
but the effect was the same.

It should be common sense not to post controversial material on a public list.

You say you are a "expert in the gun field" - Listen son, I was toting
around guns before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye.  There is
nothing you can tell me about guns that I don't already know and I
have forgotten more about guns than you will ever hope to know.  So go
take your passionate "it's people not guns that kill" defense and call
it in to your favorite right-wing AM-radio talk show - I'm sure you'll
have a eager audience of Rush Limbaugh fans to agree with you.

This is not a matter of pushing delete when you see something you
don't like - it's called "ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY" - not
"POINTING GUNS AT METEORITE PEOPLE PICTURE OF THE DAY".  Can you not
see that the photo could have been completely unexpected to many and
they were caught off-guard by it?

It was fine to stage to photo, it was perfectly good to have fun, it
was fine to share the photo with friends.  It was poor judgement to
post that photo to the Meteorite List.

Now excuse me, I have to go host a benefit for retired lesbian tree
huggers at my solar-energy-powered gay bar.

Best regards and happy hunting,

MikeG


On 2/3/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From wahlperry at aol.com  Thu Feb  4 09:45:36 2010
From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:45:36 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
 February 4, 2010
In-Reply-To: <8CC73BD605EFA35-1C64-27CB@webmail-m061.sysops.aol.com>
References: <2088225307.1108911265291929796.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
	<8CC73BD605EFA35-1C64-27CB@webmail-m061.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CC73BFD855F7FE-11F8-2DC5@webmail-m062.sysops.aol.com>



Hi Michael,


What a great picture. Congratulations Shauna on your find. Michael, 
thanks for all your hard work to provide us with the Picture of the Day.


Sonny





-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 5:58 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
February 4, 2010


http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_4_2010.html______________________________________________Visit 
the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list 
mailing 
listMeteorite-list at meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li
stinfo/meteorite-list


  


From garychase at live.com  Thu Feb  4 09:52:09 2010
From: garychase at live.com (Gary Chase)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:52:09 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related Especially Jason and Mike
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002040631i78fb98acg5196995fa8adda80@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>,
	<e51421551002040631i78fb98acg5196995fa8adda80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL106-W198299F38C902C2BB4DCD2D2550@phx.gbl>


MIKEY - I am glad that you have appointed youself as dictator of what is appropriate for the Pic of the Day.  Do you want MJ to forward posts to you first?  Glad to see relative newcomer has got his finger squarely on the pulse of what is allowed on the meteorite list.
 
JASON - JHC Dude, do you really think anyone has the time to wade through your boring, Great American Novel posts?  Where do you find the time?
 
Gary
> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:31:00 -0500
> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com
> To: ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
> 
> Hi Robert and List,
> 
> Ok everyone, this is getting tiresome.
> 
> We are all overlooking the obvious - it was poor judgement on Michael
> Johnson's part to post that photo. Period. Regardless of one's views
> on guns, this List is global and that photo was bound to stir up
> trouble - it doesn't take a psychic or mind reader to know that.
> Posting that photo was essentially a troll - perhaps not intentional,
> but the effect was the same.
> 
> It should be common sense not to post controversial material on a public list.
> 
> You say you are a "expert in the gun field" - Listen son, I was toting
> around guns before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye. There is
> nothing you can tell me about guns that I don't already know and I
> have forgotten more about guns than you will ever hope to know. So go
> take your passionate "it's people not guns that kill" defense and call
> it in to your favorite right-wing AM-radio talk show - I'm sure you'll
> have a eager audience of Rush Limbaugh fans to agree with you.
> 
> This is not a matter of pushing delete when you see something you
> don't like - it's called "ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY" - not
> "POINTING GUNS AT METEORITE PEOPLE PICTURE OF THE DAY". Can you not
> see that the photo could have been completely unexpected to many and
> they were caught off-guard by it?
> 
> It was fine to stage to photo, it was perfectly good to have fun, it
> was fine to share the photo with friends. It was poor judgement to
> post that photo to the Meteorite List.
> 
> Now excuse me, I have to go host a benefit for retired lesbian tree
> huggers at my solar-energy-powered gay bar.
> 
> Best regards and happy hunting,
> 
> MikeG
> 
> 
> On 2/3/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> 
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/

From tricottetcoll at live.com  Thu Feb  4 09:57:31 2010
From: tricottetcoll at live.com (The Tricottet Collection)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:57:31 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Monnig Meteorite Collection
Message-ID: <BLU117-W166ACA239F6367D39F65B9DD550@phx.gbl>


A new page about the Monnig Meteorite Collection:

http://www.thetricottetcollection.com/met_exhibits.html

ArnaudM

The Tricottet Collection of Natural History Specimens
(Minerals, Fossils & Meteorites)
www.thetricottetcollection.com
Facebook: The Tricottet Collection
Twitter: TricottetColl


 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/

From fcressy at prodigy.net  Thu Feb  4 10:01:43 2010
From: fcressy at prodigy.net (Frank Cressy)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 07:01:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W514920BD70313F7DC7F19FA4550@phx.gbl>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>, ,
	<93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>,
	<COL119-W37A889BBC9EC45528F4907A4550@phx.gbl>,
	<001f01caa592$b3f66c80$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
	<COL119-W514920BD70313F7DC7F19FA4550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <830850.81566.qm@web80204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello Erik and all,

I've used gravity for many years now and never had any problems.? It easy to come by and inexpensive.

Cheers,

Frank? ;-)



----- Original Message ----
From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>
To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 5:56:53 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!


What should I use to prop up stones?

[Erik]

----------------------------------------
> From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:08:00 +0100
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
>
> Erik,
>
> please never use putty for meteorites.
> Especially not with stone meteorites.
>
> The oils and softeners of these putties, even if recommended by mineral
> people, are going with time deep into the stone, making huge blackish
> irreversible stains.
>
> I had some customers, who ruined half of their collections and unfortunately
> many historic pieces among them, having them fixed with putty in their
> boxes.
>
> Best,
> Martin
>
>
>>Jason if you want to twist and distort things than buy silly putty. Works
>>great for holding meteorites for photographs or display.
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
??? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ? 
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Feb  4 10:30:29 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:30:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mitigation of Hazardous Comets and Asteroids
In-Reply-To: <BLU117-W166ACA239F6367D39F65B9DD550@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU117-W166ACA239F6367D39F65B9DD550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <kuplm51k0s5fepjggr6m5iir3gmpdq06ac@4ax.com>

Found this last night.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/thtnrc

http://www.amazon.com/Mitigation-Hazardous-Comets-Asteroids-Michael/dp/0521827647


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 10:32:32 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 07:32:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W514920BD70313F7DC7F19FA4550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <881269.26764.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I'm sure this will be a touchy subject, just as it is in the greater mineral collector and curator field, but "Mineral Tack" is widely suggested. White apparently isn't widely available any longer but blue should be available in office supply stores.

Here is one retailer selling what I am talking about.

http://tinyurl.com/yl6yo8c


Use it sparingly as a small ball behind the specimen, or on either end of a small stick (toothpick) to support the specimen .

Alternatively if you don't want to have anything "tacky" touching your specimens, use some crumpled up some Aluminium foil to support the specimen.

I'm assuming this is just for something like photography, so make sure whatever you use is not visible from the camera.

If you are talking long term display, an acrylic or metal stand is preferred.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 2/4/10, Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote:

> From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
> To: "meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 6:56 AM
> 
> What should I use to prop up stones?
> 
> [Erik]


      


From fcressy at prodigy.net  Thu Feb  4 10:34:48 2010
From: fcressy at prodigy.net (Frank Cressy)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 07:34:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty! #2
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W514920BD70313F7DC7F19FA4550@phx.gbl>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>, ,
	<93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>,
	<COL119-W37A889BBC9EC45528F4907A4550@phx.gbl>,
	<001f01caa592$b3f66c80$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
	<COL119-W514920BD70313F7DC7F19FA4550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <52571.16123.qm@web80202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello all,

On a more serious note, you can put your specimen in a membrane box and the use an adhesive or putty under the box and have no problems at all.

Cheers,

Frank



----- Original Message ----
From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>
To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 5:56:53 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!


What should I use to prop up stones?

[Erik]

----------------------------------------
> From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:08:00 +0100
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
>
> Erik,
>
> please never use putty for meteorites.
> Especially not with stone meteorites.
>
> The oils and softeners of these putties, even if recommended by mineral
> people, are going with time deep into the stone, making huge blackish
> irreversible stains.
>
> I had some customers, who ruined half of their collections and unfortunately
> many historic pieces among them, having them fixed with putty in their
> boxes.
>
> Best,
> Martin
>
>
>>Jason if you want to twist and distort things than buy silly putty. Works
>>great for holding meteorites for photographs or display.
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
??? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ? 
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From freequarks at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 10:44:34 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 08:44:34 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
In-Reply-To: <881269.26764.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <COL119-W514920BD70313F7DC7F19FA4550@phx.gbl>
	<881269.26764.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a1002040744u786297c9o3debc19138c423ab@mail.gmail.com>

If the specimen is small and of garden variety chondrite, it may stick
just fine to a Nd magnet which can then be attached to something else.
Small irons, of course, work the best.

Here's a link to where I use a Nd magnet to hold specimens for photography.

http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2003/July/Accretion_Desk.htm

Best,

Martin



On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm sure this will be a touchy subject, just as it is in the greater mineral collector and curator field, but "Mineral Tack" is widely suggested. White apparently isn't widely available any longer but blue should be available in office supply stores.
>
> Here is one retailer selling what I am talking about.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yl6yo8c
>
>
> Use it sparingly as a small ball behind the specimen, or on either end of a small stick (toothpick) to support the specimen .
>
> Alternatively if you don't want to have anything "tacky" touching your specimens, use some crumpled up some Aluminium foil to support the specimen.
>
> I'm assuming this is just for something like photography, so make sure whatever you use is not visible from the camera.
>
> If you are talking long term display, an acrylic or metal stand is preferred.
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Full Moon Photography
> IMCA #1081
>
>
> --- On Thu, 2/4/10, Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
>> To: "meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 6:56 AM
>>
>> What should I use to prop up stones?
>>
>> [Erik]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Thu Feb  4 10:55:11 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:55:11 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
In-Reply-To: <5EDCA440-008B-463A-99F1-D691C318E30D@gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>,
	<93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com><COL119-W37A889BBC9EC45528F4907A4550@phx.gbl><001f01caa592$b3f66c80$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
	<5EDCA440-008B-463A-99F1-D691C318E30D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004201caa5b2$6fd7b610$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Hi Leigh Anne,

yes, these accidents happened with some putties or mineral tacks, commonly
used by mineral collectors to mount their micromounts in boxes.
I don't know the specific brands they used, but was that stuff you can buy
at every mineral show or as accessory in mineral shops.

I'm not a chemist but they seem to contain fat, which will be absorbed by
the meteorites (irons seems to have of course not that problem).

Those collectors, who ruined their collections, were used to mount their
slices upright in acrylic boxes,
and even if the contact surfaces with the putty wasn't larger than a brave
man's booger, the material surrounding turned after a year black (even white
Stannern, Millbillillie, Camel Donga) in an area as large as a thumbnail.

And it was going deep, so that you couldn't grind it away.
Tried everything to clean it, all kind of solvents, without success.
O.k. maybe one could bleach it with acids, but then the meteorite would be
the same worthless.

Twink, I just asked my cat.
She said, if it is a humidity problem, rice grains should work as well as
kitty litter,
but I fear, other than with freshly cut surfaces, the putty stains are going
deeper and are already dry.


Well in general, I don't know, whether there are super-special tacks,
perhaps suitable also for meteorites,

but I'd say, these stones had a happy life for 4.5Gyears, before they had
bad luck and felt on this inhospitable planet,
where they suffer from oxygen, humidity, acids, our sweat (and tears)
and we discuss so often here on the list about preservation, curation,
cleaning, rust, bleeding, lawrencite...

...that we simply should abstain from putty.

Well, how to fix - I don't know, whether it's necessary.
Just use stands. Some use also neodyme magnets for the irons.
For micromounts membrane boxes could be an alternative, if you want to have
the meteorites standing upright, just put the boxes upright.

Best!
Martin



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Leigh
Anne Delray
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. Februar 2010 13:44
An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!

Martin,
Does the mineral tack do this as well? I have never heard of this,  
good to know.
Leigh Anne

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 4, 2010, at 5:08 AM, "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de 
 > wrote:

> Erik,
>
> please never use putty for meteorites.
> Especially not with stone meteorites.
>
> The oils and softeners of these putties, even if recommended by  
> mineral
> people, are going with time deep into the stone, making huge blackish
> irreversible stains.
>
> I had some customers, who ruined half of their collections and  
> unfortunately
> many historic pieces among them, having them fixed with putty in their
> boxes.
>
> Best,
> Martin
>
>
>> Jason if you want to twist and distort things than buy silly putty.  
>> Works
>> great for holding meteorites for photographs or display.
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From darryl at dof3.com  Thu Feb  4 10:59:08 2010
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:59:08 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	4, 2010
In-Reply-To: <2088225307.1108911265291929796.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
References: <2088225307.1108911265291929796.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <CB8D67C8-5BBD-48D2-8442-D7253EBA03FA@dof3.com>



man---what a wonderful picture!!

and what a simply extraordinary meteorite!!

wow.  WOW.




On Feb 4, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Michael Johnson wrote:

> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_4_2010.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 10:59:42 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 07:59:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Tucson Notes - Excellent eBay Auctions Ending
Message-ID: <228352.72570.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,
 
I just returned earlier than expected from the Tucson Gem and Mineral 
Show.  It only took about three days to go through everything there and I can 
tell you that prices are up on everything and the supply is severely down. There 
were only a few Moroccan dealers and all were asking at least twice as much as 
last year.  They are very good at cherry picking out the best material, setting 
it aside and negotiating for hours, even on the most common material.  I finally 
gave up and walked away without buying a single piece from them. In any case, 
there was very little to look out.  It used to take me about two weeks to check 
out everything but not any more.  The asking price for Campos has even tripled, 
go figure.  The only bargains I could acquire were on American finds. 
 
The good news is that I have several excellent auctions ending today and 
tomorrow.  I ran extra large pieces of very rare material so it is definitely 
worth a look.   Do not forget to check back frequently as I am introducing 
several rare items starting this afternoon on eBay and will continue to add more 
every week as the inventory is prepared. 

All Auctions Can Be Found At This link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ


Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck.
 
Best Regards,

------------------------------------
Adam 
Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
raremeteorites at yahoo.com 


From minador at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 11:27:30 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 08:27:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
In-Reply-To: <001f01caa592$b3f66c80$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>,
	<93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W37A889BBC9EC45528F4907A4550@phx.gbl>
	<001f01caa592$b3f66c80$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <303174.80666.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

So Martin,

Is there anything that can be done by oil damage from materials other than putty (like vegetable or cooking oil)?

Thanks,
Mark



----- Original Message ----
From: Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 5:08:00 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!

Erik,

please never use putty for meteorites.
Especially not with stone meteorites.

The oils and softeners of these putties, even if recommended by mineral
people, are going with time deep into the stone, making huge blackish
irreversible stains.

I had some customers, who ruined half of their collections and unfortunately
many historic pieces among them, having them fixed with putty in their
boxes.

Best,
Martin


>Jason if you want to twist and distort things than buy silly putty. Works
>great for holding meteorites for photographs or display.? 

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From minador at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 11:39:41 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 08:39:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
In-Reply-To: <A315718BD48642DFBE418EE86E2EE8DD@DFZN8X81>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>, ,
	<93aaac891002032113k4903f60dn1f7fb760ff4ecffb@mail.gmail.com>,
	<COL119-W37A889BBC9EC45528F4907A4550@phx.gbl>,
	<001f01caa592$b3f66c80$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
	<COL119-W514920BD70313F7DC7F19FA4550@phx.gbl>
	<A315718BD48642DFBE418EE86E2EE8DD@DFZN8X81>
Message-ID: <142524.55558.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Kitty litter is similar to a product used to clean up oil spills, which is called "floor dry".? I'm not sure, but perhaps it's a bit better suited for oils (maybe worth to try as an alternative to kitty litter).? But maybe it's the same stuff, just packaged differently and the price marked up for sale to industrial sites....

Mark B



----- Original Message ----
From: Larry & Twink Monrad <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
To: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>; meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 7:02:43 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!

I have a question.? At my Lapidary Club when minerals are cut with a saw using oil, even some minerals absorb the oil.? They put them in a box with kitty litter and the oil stain comes out.? Would this work for the stained meteorites?? I have not tried it yet but do have several? stone meteorite specimens which are stained from the putty stuff.
Twink Monrad 
______________________________________________
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Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 11:58:25 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 08:58:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Where can I find plastic specimen boxes in
	Tucson???
Message-ID: <78484.83494.qm@web113609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Most of my collection is made up of micros and those are contained in membrane boxes. My larger specimens are in the 2.25" x 3.25" (57mm x 83mm) boxes, which are commonly used by Mike Farmer, as an example.

I'm looking to obtain a number of clear acrylic boxes, with foam inserts, which are between these two size extremes, but haven't come across a vendor at the various shows (minerals, gems, beads, etc.) that has them for sale. Perhaps I've overlooked them. If anyone knows of a vendor currently in Tucson that has boxes in this size range, please let me know off list.

BTW, I don't like Rikers very much, so those are out.

Thanks

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


      


From minador at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 12:11:19 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:11:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002040631i78fb98acg5196995fa8adda80@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<e51421551002040631i78fb98acg5196995fa8adda80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <799563.44784.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Mike,

Are you really trying to defuse the situation?? By bringing up Rush Limbaugh, gays/lesbians and tree huggers?? And Jason bringing "Jesus" last night?? You're just upsetting more people on the list.? And you have the gall to attack the "taste" of the photo, with an even more tasteless tirade...? Nobody is going to convince anybody, and all we have is even more vitreol in our public archives.? I've been giving a lot of private replies, how about trying that for once and stop dragging in more special interest groups...

Mark Bowling
Vail, AZ


----- Original Message ----
From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
To: Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com>
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 7:31:00 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list

Hi Robert and List,

Ok everyone, this is getting tiresome.

We are all overlooking the obvious - it was poor judgement on Michael
Johnson's part to post that photo.? Period.? Regardless of one's views
on guns, this List is global and that photo was bound to stir up
trouble - it doesn't take a psychic or mind reader to know that.
Posting that photo was essentially a troll - perhaps not intentional,
but the effect was the same.

It should be common sense not to post controversial material on a public list.

You say you are a "expert in the gun field" - Listen son, I was toting
around guns before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye.? There is
nothing you can tell me about guns that I don't already know and I
have forgotten more about guns than you will ever hope to know.? So go
take your passionate "it's people not guns that kill" defense and call
it in to your favorite right-wing AM-radio talk show - I'm sure you'll
have a eager audience of Rush Limbaugh fans to agree with you.

This is not a matter of pushing delete when you see something you
don't like - it's called "ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY" - not
"POINTING GUNS AT METEORITE PEOPLE PICTURE OF THE DAY".? Can you not
see that the photo could have been completely unexpected to many and
they were caught off-guard by it?

It was fine to stage to photo, it was perfectly good to have fun, it
was fine to share the photo with friends.? It was poor judgement to
post that photo to the Meteorite List.

Now excuse me, I have to go host a benefit for retired lesbian tree
huggers at my solar-energy-powered gay bar.

Best regards and happy hunting,

MikeG


On 2/3/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From minador at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 12:19:05 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:19:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Where can I find plastic specimen boxes in
	Tucson???
In-Reply-To: <78484.83494.qm@web113609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <78484.83494.qm@web113609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <702175.33192.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Richard,

Did you see the room below Geoff's room???I thought I've seen them there before.? I'll keep my eye out in the mean time.? There has to be somebody (sometimes you just have to dig through the show guides...).

Mark B.


----- Original Message ----
From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 9:58:25 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Where can I find plastic specimen boxes in Tucson???

Most of my collection is made up of micros and those are contained in membrane boxes. My larger specimens are in the 2.25" x 3.25" (57mm x 83mm) boxes, which are commonly used by Mike Farmer, as an example.

I'm looking to obtain a number of clear acrylic boxes, with foam inserts, which are between these two size extremes, but haven't come across a vendor at the various shows (minerals, gems, beads, etc.) that has them for sale. Perhaps I've overlooked them. If anyone knows of a vendor currently in Tucson that has boxes in this size range, please let me know off list.

BTW, I don't like Rikers very much, so those are out.

Thanks

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


? ? ? 
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From lintonius at earthlink.net  Thu Feb  4 12:28:40 2010
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:28:40 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	4, 2010
References: <2088225307.1108911265291929796.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F35125B3037448F95A90643D186CF75@LintoniusLaptop>

Awesome looking Glorieta, Shauna! Great cats, too.
Thanks for sharing, Robert and Michael.
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Johnson" <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:58 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 
4,2010


> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_4_2010.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Thu Feb  4 12:28:14 2010
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:28:14 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Find me in Tucson if you want some stuff
Message-ID: <b8ac.3b413ac3.389c5dae@aol.com>

Hello List,

I wanted to thank everyone that attended the showing of  "Meteorite Men, 
the Tucson Ring" episode at the Sky Bar with us last  night.  We had a blast, 
and we are looking forward to tomorrow night's  festivities at the 11th 
Annual Meteor Mayhem Birthday Bash and Harvey  Awards.

For those of you who didn't order pizza next door to the Sky Bar  last 
night, but who are attending Friday, be sure to do so, it really is the  best 
pizza I have ever had.

I wanted to let everyone know that I have a  nice, but shrinking, supply of 
West/Ash Creek stones with me for sale.  It  looks like our West episode of 
Meteorite Men will be either #5 or #6 in the  rotation, and I fully expect 
to sell out of the limited stock I have the week  that episode airs. 

I also have some meteorites that I found on TV during  the "Meteorite Men, 
Dry Lake Bed" episode, that are for sale.  Normally, I  like to keep the 
results of our episodes secret until the show airs, but if you  are interested 
in a meteorite from one of our shows (some for under $10) email  me and 
let's catch up with me sometime here at Tucson, if you want to buy a  specimen, 
I will tell you how they were found in the upcoming episode.  
 
I will be in and out of the Riverpark Inn (used to be the Pueblo) room 141  
where we are selling our Palladot Pallasite Peridot gemstones.  If I'm not  
in the room, I will be running around, so email me (I have my Blackberry to 
get  email on) or call and we will hook up.  

I also have a wide  assortment of small macro and mircos from a few hundred 
other meteorite  locations with me, so hollar.  Geoff Notkin has our new 
Coffeyville, Kansas  meteorite slices for sale in his room, if you are looking 
for that one.

I  hope to see a lot of you at the IMCA dinner tonight, the party tomorrow 
night  and auction on Saturday night.

Steve Arnold
of Meteorite Men
 


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 12:37:28 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:37:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list]  The Lorton meteorite in a vacuum cleaner
Message-ID: <459529.8981.qm@web113609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Carl and List,

Today I was able to speak with someone on the phone about the vacuumed used to clean up the mess from the Lorton meteorite fall and she had stated that the vacuum bag was sent to the Smithsonian. Well I guess Smithsonian has everything covered and is making sure no one has fragments from the Lorton meteorite fall.

Shawn Alan





[meteorite-list] RE; More on the Lorton
Carl 's carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com 
Tue Feb 2 19:30:52 EST 2010 

Previous message: [meteorite-list] Museums Keeping meteorites dry 
Next message: [meteorite-list] RE; More on the Lorton 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, 

Just a thought I had the last week or so. Has anyone given the thought of obtaining the vacuum cleaner bag used to clean the offices? It still might not be too late and with the doctors permission, of course. Judging from the photos, there may be little micros that may have been overlooked and vacuumed. A dusty search but with a face mask, gloves and a strong magnet, who knows? 

Carl 

_________________________________________________________________ 
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ 

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Next message: [meteorite-list] RE; More on the Lorton 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 

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[meteorite-list] The Lorton meteorite in a vacuum cleaner
Carl 's carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com 
Tue Feb 2 22:34:37 EST 2010 

Previous message: [meteorite-list] tucson bound 
Next message: [meteorite-list] National History Museum in Paris presents a new meteorite, "Paris" 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Mike. Depends on how full the vacuum bags are originally. May take weeks before they need replacing. For the price of a new bag, the doctors just might let you have the old ones. Raises the level of meteorite hunting, doesn't it? Anyone out in Virginia that might want to try it? 

Carl 



> Hi Carl, 

> 

> That's actually a very good idea, but the bags are probably tossed 

> already - or the canister was emptied already. Or maybe not...... 

> 

> Best regards and clear skies, 

> 

> MikeG 

> 

> 

> 




From lintonius at earthlink.net  Thu Feb  4 12:40:43 2010
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:40:43 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] dubious 'iron' on e-bay
References: <969849.46645.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<177122B429DD4D1880D4107C33947300@LintoniusLaptop>
	<A375194401794374AA20381C05D25117@JeffPC>
	<98DF44604CD24013888AAAFEF529BA94@LintoniusLaptop>
	<1304DA76A4724027AC5AC4BA76D0436F@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <AB646CBE12EC4505B067C78B6469E137@LintoniusLaptop>

Thank you Jeff, Bob, and Rene.
The seller has now offered to cut of a sample to send me. Might as well.
If it passes my amateur scrutiny, I'll take it in to UCLA for testing.
I'll keep you posted. I'm not holding my breath, but...
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Kuyken" <info at meteorites.com.au>
To: "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] dubious 'iron' on e-bay


> Agreed... not convincing in the slightest! He may have worked in an iron
> foundry but that means nothing these days. Some of the industrial 
> byproduct
> rocks/slag I have seen are nothing short of amazing! The best I ever saw
> could have been a big seller on the mineral market and furniture. Someone
> found huge pieces of it dumped in a lake somewhere in the US. Northeast I
> think. Imagine a bencubbinite with a malachite matrix. Very funky stuff!
>
> I'd be interested to see some larger photos especially of these flow lines
> etc. if you get the chance? One thing that I have always found easy to 
> rule
> out meteorites are elongated vesicles. Meteorites can't have them.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> To: "Jeff Kuyken" <info at meteorites.com.au>
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] dubious 'iron' on e-bay
>
>
>> Thanks Jeff. That's funny.
>> I'm going to ask for better photos.
>> Here's the reply I got from him...
>> "I have no proof that it is a meteorite. I know that a corner was sent to
>> UCLA or Harverd back in the late 80's early 90's and my grand father told
>> me
>> that it was. I do know that there is still some crust on it and it seems
>> very aged. On the bottom there are some finger print like indentations.
>> There are many small stream like lines that look like rivers runninf
>> together on the area that still has the crust. There is a spot where they
>> had chiped it off years ago and it looks like there is some very small
>> sparkels and the rock is grey looking. There are a bunch of small holes 
>> in
>> the one side that has been told to me to be from many many years in the
>> water and stone grinding in to it there are still 2 or 3 very small 
>> stones
>> lodged in it. I know it is not slag or any man made material as I spent
>> many
>> years in a grey iron foundry and know all about slags. I actually had a
>> guy
>> come from Hartford Maryland and look at it and said it was probably rock
>> from Mars or the moon? He did make me a $200 cash offer so I asume it is
>> something of value. If interested and not for the amount listed for just
>> make me an offer."
>> Tested at UCLA or Harvard? Where's the results?
>> Probably from Mars or the moon? Geez.
>> Not very convincing, at this point.
>> Linton
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jeff Kuyken" <info at meteorites.com.au>
>> To: "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] dubious 'iron' on e-bay
>>
>>
>>> Slag indeed!
>>>
>>> Grandfather found stones are my favourite. Too bad this one didn't 
>>> bounce
>>> off the barn roof before landing in the vegetable garden where it glowed
>>> red
>>> hot for 3 days. And ever since then they've been able to grow mutant
>>> vegetables! ;-)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:39 AM
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] dubious 'iron' on e-bay
>>>
>>>
>>>> Good day list,
>>>> I've been searching for meteorites from Utah on e-bay for quite some
>>>> time,
>>>> and an ad came up a few days  ago for an alleged iron.
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110487777840&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
>>>> The seller clearly doesn't know what he's talking about (not that I'm
>>>> all
>>>> that knowledgable). His grandfather found the 'rock', but apparently no
>>>> testing or analysis was ever done. To me, it looks like some kind of
>>>> manmade material, slag perhaps. But the photos don't blow up and I 
>>>> can't
>>>> discern any detail. Would anyone care to share an opinion? I'd
>>>> appreciate
>>>> it.
>>>> Linton - thoroughly enjoying Tucson!
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2665 - Release Date: 02/03/10
>> 08:09:00
>>
>>
>>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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08:09:00



From wahlperry at aol.com  Thu Feb  4 12:45:01 2010
From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:45:01 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] CM1 Moapa Valley fragments for sale
Message-ID: <8CC73D8E9458D34-356C-16B3@webmail-d039.sysops.aol.com>

Hi List,

I will be attending the Tucson show this weekend. I am bringing a few 
small pieces of my CM1 discovery (Moapa Valley) for sale. I have not 
officially offered any of this material for sale to the public as of 
yet. You can contact me by phone at 702-373-8958 or by email (off list).

Sonny


From minador at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 12:49:41 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:49:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
In-Reply-To: <746890.70746.qm@web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <746890.70746.qm@web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <768798.74724.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thanks Shawn, that article is just the mindset we don't need in this country.? I wrote a reply before realizing others had done so already...? :0)

Clear skies,
Mark B.


----- Original Message ----
From: Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 11:51:56 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'

Hello List,

An artical today from The Washington Post on the Lorto Meteorite.

Shawn Alan

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/02/AR2010020203028.html
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 12:53:16 2010
From: ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com (Robert Ward)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:53:16 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002040631i78fb98acg5196995fa8adda80@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<e51421551002040631i78fb98acg5196995fa8adda80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5ddd37461002040953k2be95d1pc6998d13ef731fb4@mail.gmail.com>

Mike G. I would like to point out that Michael Johnson has has made a
huge impact on this community, he tries his best to represent people
that are from all walks of life in the meteorite world, for you to
target him as using "poor judgement" is insulting, that is just YOUR
opinion, not fact as stated by you.  I am not your "son" and please
correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall seeing you at any state
shoots, ranges, or having read your scores, or article's in any
firearms publications. Are you a gunsmith? Did you ever shoot
professionally? Do you have a piece of paper on the wall that says you
know what you are talking about? You say that it is  incorrect to
state that "it is people, not guns that kill" Show me one case of a
firearm autonomously 'jumping up and killing someone'. A person is
involved 100% percent of the time. toting around grandpa's squirrel
gun, and telling stories at your local bar does not mean you know
it all, but it is a good indicator of your mindset. Robert.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
<meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Robert and List,
>
> Ok everyone, this is getting tiresome.
>
> We are all overlooking the obvious - it was poor judgement on Michael
> Johnson's part to post that photo. ?Period. ?Regardless of one's views
> on guns, this List is global and that photo was bound to stir up
> trouble - it doesn't take a psychic or mind reader to know that.
> Posting that photo was essentially a troll - perhaps not intentional,
> but the effect was the same.
>
> It should be common sense not to post controversial material on a public list.
>
> You say you are a "expert in the gun field" - Listen son, I was toting
> around guns before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye. ?There is
> nothing you can tell me about guns that I don't already know and I
> have forgotten more about guns than you will ever hope to know. ?So go
> take your passionate "it's people not guns that kill" defense and call
> it in to your favorite right-wing AM-radio talk show - I'm sure you'll
> have a eager audience of Rush Limbaugh fans to agree with you.
>
> This is not a matter of pushing delete when you see something you
> don't like - it's called "ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY" - not
> "POINTING GUNS AT METEORITE PEOPLE PICTURE OF THE DAY". ?Can you not
> see that the photo could have been completely unexpected to many and
> they were caught off-guard by it?
>
> It was fine to stage to photo, it was perfectly good to have fun, it
> was fine to share the photo with friends. ?It was poor judgement to
> post that photo to the Meteorite List.
>
> Now excuse me, I have to go host a benefit for retired lesbian tree
> huggers at my solar-energy-powered gay bar.
>
> Best regards and happy hunting,
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 2/3/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Feb  4 13:14:28 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:14:28 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Lots More Meteorite Added (Oriented
 Sculpted &	Crusted)
In-Reply-To: <4B6A0524.7020505@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4B6A0524.7020505@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B0E84.3000702@meteoritesusa.com>

Sorry for the double post but there was no prices on some pieces. Please 
recheck pricing... I also didn't have pricing on the Taza Oriented Iron 
individuals and the NWA 869 was a bit high. The Tamdakht oriented stones 
are sold but I can get more.

Enjoy...

Regards,
Eric

Call 760-522-2152 or Email to order.
Deals are available of Larger orders.

On 2/3/2010 3:22 PM, Meteorites USA wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> Here's my ad for the week.
> http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tucson/
>
> 136.2g Lot of Taza Individuals - Flight Oriented Specimens & Sculpted 
> Individuals
> 472g Lot of Crusted & very Aesthetic UNWA Stone Meteorites - CHERRY 
> STONES! $149
> 1516g UNWA Meteorites - BIG Crusted Stones $318
> 609.7g Lot of Libyan Desert Glass - $2/g or $600 for the lot - Hand 
> picked for color and clarity.
> 53.3 grams of Tamdakht Flight Oriented & Near Fully Fusion Crusted 
> Meteorites - SOLD
> NWA 869 ? Small, Medium & Large Stones ? 3 Lots totaling 2351g = $750
> 716.2g UNWA Meteorite Low Iron Polished End Cut - $300
> 329.8g UNWA Meteorite Low Iron Polished End Cut - $150
> 360g LOT of Oriented UNWA - $180
> Spectacular 387g Flight Oriented Silicated Iron Meteorite with Fusion 
> Crust and Knarly thumbprints - $2450 obo
> 2465g Lot of LARGE Hand Picked UNWA Stones (Great for Slicing) - $542
> 203.5g Lot of Nicely Crusted Part and Whole Stones! - $50
> 260g Lot f End Cuts - $75
>
> Free shipping in the USA on orders over $100
>
> Call 760-522-2152 or Email to order.
> Deals are available of Larger orders.
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> www.meteoritesusa.com
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 13:46:50 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:46:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
In-Reply-To: <768798.74724.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <746890.70746.qm@web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<768798.74724.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <565867.35420.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



It is interesting that some museums quote the UNESCO laws when it is in their favor but fail to mention it when it is not.  I have not heard a thing about the laws that clearly state that in the United States, the meteorite belongs to the land owner, not the finder. You can't have it both ways.

Best Regards,

Adam



----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Bowling <minador at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 9:49:41 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'

Thanks Shawn, that article is just the mindset we don't need in this country.  I wrote a reply before realizing others had done so already...  :0)

Clear skies,
Mark B.


----- Original Message ----
From: Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 11:51:56 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'

Hello List,

An artical today from The Washington Post on the Lorto Meteorite.

Shawn Alan

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/02/AR2010020203028.html
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From geoking at notkin.net  Thu Feb  4 13:48:40 2010
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:48:40 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't let them take away your guns...
	meteorites will be next!
In-Reply-To: <291266.82831.qm@web114006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <291266.82831.qm@web114006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <85C8E9D7-4B87-41FF-9751-4630E95E1BF6@notkin.net>

Jason posted:

> My thoughts on the subject is that those were very stupid photographs.


Dear Listees:

Regarding the joke photo taken the other day: The owner of the 9 mm,  
and Libby, and myself all double checked that it was not loaded. We  
are all trained in firearm safety and know what we're doing. At no  
time was the pistol pointed at Blaine or myself. The photo was  
cleverly staged by Greg to make it appear as though the gun was aimed  
at us.

Different people obviously have different views about firearm  
ownership. Some dealers in AZ choose to keep firearms in their show  
rooms to protect their valuable stock. That is perfectly legal in  
Arizona.

Those of us working the show typically put in 12 to 14 hours per day,  
for about sixteen consecutive days. We try to blow off steam and have  
some fun in the evenings. Having a laugh does not involve putting our  
friends in any type of danger. I'm sorry that some List members were  
offended by the image.

IMO, the 2010 gem show is considerably more interesting than a debate  
about firearms.


Respectfully,

Geoff N.

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 13:53:55 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:53:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Indian Fall "Akhnoor" in Tucson?
Message-ID: <286513.22811.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

A friend asked me to keep an eye open for this recent fall.
Has anyone seen it anywhere? I haven't.

Thanks

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


      


From freequarks at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 13:57:07 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:57:07 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't let them take away your guns...
	meteorites will be next!
In-Reply-To: <85C8E9D7-4B87-41FF-9751-4630E95E1BF6@notkin.net>
References: <291266.82831.qm@web114006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<85C8E9D7-4B87-41FF-9751-4630E95E1BF6@notkin.net>
Message-ID: <822da19a1002041057g561febb7u53587c2dd2802ad2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Geoff,

What I would really like to know is how you managed to light the scene
while creating no shadows?

-Martin




On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Notkin <geoking at notkin.net> wrote:
> Jason posted:
>
>> My thoughts on the subject is that those were very stupid photographs.
>
>
> Dear Listees:
>
> Regarding the joke photo taken the other day: The owner of the 9 mm, and
> Libby, and myself all double checked that it was not loaded. We are all
> trained in firearm safety and know what we're doing. At no time was the
> pistol pointed at Blaine or myself. The photo was cleverly staged by Greg to
> make it appear as though the gun was aimed at us.
>
> Different people obviously have different views about firearm ownership.
> Some dealers in AZ choose to keep firearms in their show rooms to protect
> their valuable stock. That is perfectly legal in Arizona.
>
> Those of us working the show typically put in 12 to 14 hours per day, for
> about sixteen consecutive days. We try to blow off steam and have some fun
> in the evenings. Having a laugh does not involve putting our friends in any
> type of danger. I'm sorry that some List members were offended by the image.
>
> IMO, the 2010 gem show is considerably more interesting than a debate about
> firearms.
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Geoff N.
>
> www.aerolite.org
> www.meteoritemen.com
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From moritzkarl at t-online.de  Thu Feb  4 12:35:10 2010
From: moritzkarl at t-online.de (Moritz Karl)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:35:10 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Where can I find plastic specimen boxes in
	Tucson???
In-Reply-To: <78484.83494.qm@web113609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <78484.83494.qm@web113609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DE93E1F2-6C5F-4D1C-86FF-FE84730EB271@t-online.de>

Hi,
I have the 57 by 83 mm boxes available for sale in our room number 184  
in the Inn suites. Come by if you are interested.
Moritz

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 04.02.2010 um 09:58 schrieb Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>:

> Most of my collection is made up of micros and those are contained  
> in membrane boxes. My larger specimens are in the 2.25" x  
> 3.25" (57mm x 83mm) boxes, which are commonly used by Mike Farmer,  
> as an example.
>
> I'm looking to obtain a number of clear acrylic boxes, with foam  
> inserts, which are between these two size extremes, but haven't come  
> across a vendor at the various shows (minerals, gems, beads, etc.)  
> that has them for sale. Perhaps I've overlooked them. If anyone  
> knows of a vendor currently in Tucson that has boxes in this size  
> range, please let me know off list.
>
> BTW, I don't like Rikers very much, so those are out.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Full Moon Photography
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From mikewren at gilanet.com  Thu Feb  4 12:22:17 2010
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:22:17 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite worth thousands...........
In-Reply-To: <f0a794131002040751r5646146bybaa43ea42cfb81b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ad733151002030834nd09e198j3c0e5732ce1479c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<6FCA9BD7-8C64-43F8-A3FA-5058028F0DB2@gilanet.com>
	<f0a794131002040751r5646146bybaa43ea42cfb81b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0F08DCC7-AB05-458F-AB20-5FC256D628EB@gilanet.com>

Hello,


WOW!  STOP. You prove my point exactly and you read a lot into what I  
said!

 > NEVER. Did I suggest That the Lorton was not worth a lot of money.  
It probably is worth 50k, give or take. NEVER, did I compare it to  
NWA.   You prove my point, because the HIGH END is the only thing  
people remember.

Here is my quote from the Washington Post Article:

Internet auction sites such as eBay have made buying and selling  
meteorite bits and chunks far more lucrative in recent years, said  
Michael Cottingham, a New Mexico-based hunter and dealer. Prices for  
small bits of the space rock can vary on the Web site from $10 for a  
common bit of meteorite that landed long ago, up to thousands of  
dollars for a newly landed specimens.

"When you get a new meteorite like the one in Lorton, the low-end  
figure gets forgotten," Cottingham says. "You're just not going to go  
find some meteorites and pay all your bills."

I took a lot of effort to get him to write $10.00!  He only wanted to  
know about the high end. TV shows and news stories that ONLY State the  
high end do more harm then good. In fact, they drive away young  
collectors. If young collectors or new collectors think all meteorites  
cost 10k, you will get very few people coming in to the field. YOU  
ALSO DRIVE UP FIELD PRICES. I am not talking about cheating a farmer  
or rancher by trying to get something for nothing, I am talking about  
ridiculous price being asked because of ignorance and TV SHOWS that  
are poorly done.

I had 6 meteorites located last year. All real meteorites. ALL 6  
meteorites were found by people who saw the cash and treasure show and  
the 1st episode of "Meteorite Men".  All- and I mean all of these  
people thought their stones were worth 100k to begin with. Where did  
they get this idea?   They got it from BAD REPORTING .  Where did the  
farmer get the idea that his 1 kilo ugly ass chondrite was worth  
$45,000.00 ????  From the show Cash and Treasure!
That is a fact and if I need to get his statement in writing he has  
agreed to do this.... because BAD REPORTING AND BAD TV Shows can and  
do harm this field.

In my ebay store I have 100's of meteorites under $100.00. Do you  
mention that. NO. You quote my high end collection pieces only.

Unlike a lot of people on this list (Most in fact) I have supported my  
5 children by really making a living by hunting, buying and selling  
meteorites for the last 10+ years. When I tell you that TV shows have  
had a negative impact on the field - I am not talking hot air.

There are 4+ meteorites sitting in farmer's houses right now because  
of what these people have perceived to learn about meteorites.

on and on and on.....

Michael Cottingham










On Feb 4, 2010, at 8:51 AM, Mike Hankey wrote:

> Michael,
>
> I have to repectfully disagree with some of your satements. First
> suggesting that a hammer stone from a witnessed fall in the nations
> Capitol is equivellent in price to a weathered nwa at cents a gram is
> nonsense. This tactic is more about getting a good deal from an
> unwitting landowner than the preservation of science.
>
> Secondly I have seen the prices on most of your collection and from
> what I can tell that farmer in Texas isn't asking much more than what
> you are asking for your west meteorites. Why should an educated farmer
> take the hit just so a collector can take the prize?
>
> Third media and shows about meteorites are good for meteorites. It
> increases demand which in turn increases sales and values. Supply is
> limited which means anyone already invested in meteorites will
> benefit. Commodities can become overvalued at times look at real
> estate. When someone is asking too much the product doesn't sell. This
> is part of capitalism.
>
> I don't think the values of the lorton meteorite have been
> misteprestend in any of the stories.
>
> Spreading knowledge and excitement about meteorites is a good for
> meteorites, good for science and it leads to discoveries. Hording
> knowledge is good for profits and that's about it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2010, michael cottingham <mikewren at gilanet.com 
> > wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> It should be of great concern. Every news article, every TV show,  
>> every special that features meteorites as "treasure" first, and  
>> science second, will most likely result in a distorted view of what  
>> meteorites are worth.
>>
>> In my recent interview with the Washington Post writer, we spent  
>> nearly 20-30 minutes talking about the pricing of meteorites. I  
>> expressed to him that it was extremely important to report the  
>> pricing accurately. I told him almost every time a story is done on  
>> meteorites and prices are mentioned, well the reporter seems to  
>> forget the pennies per gram and goes with the ten's of thousands  
>> that a meteorite could be worth.
>>
>> I told him when you state the high end only, you get a distorted  
>> view of pricing, and the results can be extremely negative. I  
>> believe you have more fraud on ebay, because people think they can  
>> get $10,000 for the meteorwrong, not $10.00. This is most likely a  
>> direct result of distorted news reporting and TV shows.
>>
>> I know many of you dearly love the Meteorite TV shows of late, and  
>> think they are nothing but great for the field of meteorites. Well,  
>> I know of 4 meteorites in the field, who's owners/finders want tens  
>> of thousands of dollars, more than these little chondrites are  
>> worth- simply because of the Cash and Treasure Show and the first  
>> Meteorite Men episode.
>>
>> So, because I will not pay, $45,000 for a 1 kilo chondrite from  
>> North Texas, it will sit, like many others meteorites with the  
>> owners- who believe, because of TV shows that were done poorly,  
>> that they are worth $50,000 or more.  Science will loose out if  
>> reporting is not done accurately.
>>
>> Best Wishes
>>
>> Michael Cottingham
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:34 AM, Michael Groetz wrote:
>>
>>
>> List-
>>   Maybe many of the rest of you don't feel this way- but to me it
>> generally seems the news media and television shows are more  
>> concerned
>> about a quick buck rather than the science and appreciation for
>> meteorites for what they are- treasures from space that you can hold
>> in your hand.
>>   It seems like initially meteorites are viewed as something special
>> and usually wind up "How much is it worth?" after buyers roll in.
>>  The doctor in this case tried to maintain the scientific value for
>> all to appreciate while helping the people of Haiti. Then the $$$ was
>> thrown at them and greed seems to be winning out.
>>   Sorry for the frustration.
>> Mike
>>
>> http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/03/meteorite-worth-thousands-stirs-ownership-debate/
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>



From ks1u at att.net  Thu Feb  4 15:14:36 2010
From: ks1u at att.net (George Blahun Jr)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:14:36 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
In-Reply-To: <565867.35420.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <746890.70746.qm@web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<768798.74724.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<565867.35420.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CE492ACF-6801-48C4-A973-9D321ABF17D3@att.net>

We should all be concerned about this law and not be complacent.  Up until the 1980s the Communications Act of 1934 prohibited anyone from owning the electromagnetic spectrum.  It was considered the "peoples spectrum".  During the 1980s the telecommunications industry bought off a corrupt and ignorant congress and FCC and had the laws rewritten.   In that case the ownership by the people, I felt, was a good thing.  After all those radio waves are constantly passing through our bodies and on our properties, so we should all have access to them. Instead of insisting on the industry encrypting their signals, it became illegal to descramble any radio or tv signals unless you paid some company.  In the current view, the land owner does (and I believe should) have ownership of meteorites.  We should all be vigilant that some politician or museum director does not start an effort to overturn this.  All it takes is some money and a few greedy politicians (redundant I know).  I don't see any immediate changes on the horizon, I'm just cautioning against complacency.

George 

From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Thu Feb  4 15:21:20 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:21:20 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
In-Reply-To: <565867.35420.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <746890.70746.qm@web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><768798.74724.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<565867.35420.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005201caa5d7$9d4c5ea0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Hi Adam,

yah and the problem is, that very most meteorites on Earth do not meet the
definition of cultural heritage of the 1970er UNESCO convention and the
following convention UNIDROIT.

Just take any lexicon or encyclopedia and look up the definition of
"culture".

And consequently meteorites are protected in the UNESCO convention, clearly
and unambiguously only, if they are mineral objects, which are a part of a
scientific collection. (Says the convention, not me.)

Problem is that article from McEwen & Schmitt, who give a very extreme
individual opinion - which in case, at least in my opinion, wouldn't be
shared by any court.

Talking about problems.
Problem - iiiif a country declares all meteorites across-the-board to be
movable heritage in terms of the 1970er UNESCO convention,
like e.g. Canada or Australia did,
what is then with the meteorites from other countries kept in the museums
and institutional collections?

Well, that the UNIDROIT convention tells: They have to be given back or
there must be a financial compensation given to the countries where they
felt or were found - if these countries ask for it and if it can't be
proven, that there were once legally exported (which is impossible in most
cases, because before these laws discussion, noone would have had the idea,
that one once could need papers for the meteorites).
That is very dangerous - and I guess also a reason, why only a few countries
will follow the Australian or Canadian line.


Btw. a problem.
I don't like, that such laws are mentioned only when they suit the plans.

Look the Smithonian;
Currently there is another stone on display.
The Blue Wittelsbacher diamond.
Since 1722 his ways through the different European royal houses is
documented.
A long time (there its name stems from) it was the largest and most
important stone in the Bavarian crown jewels.
A year ago (or were it already 2 years) it was auctioned off 
a private diamond dealer won (was to expensive for the Bavarian state).
And I as Bavarian won't be able anymore to dance around that stone at our
powwows, cause it's over the sea. 

So I would say, this mineralogical object is by all means an item in the
highest rank of a movable cultural national heritage by definition of the
UNESCO convention.

Smithonian hasn't any objections to have it on display,
therefor I doubt, that they could argue for the UNESCO convention
in the Lorton case, where a stone without any human history just arrived
from space.

Prrrrrroblem's solution? Very simple - like so often, when we talk about
meteorites.

If they think it must be "people's rock":

Then Smithonion just should buy it and put in on display.

(As it's common use with artifacts, art, fossils, minerals and quite all
other exhibits too  - there is no reason, why meteorites shall be the sole
exception).


Best!
Martin




-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Adam
Hupe
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. Februar 2010 19:47
An: Adam
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'



It is interesting that some museums quote the UNESCO laws when it is in
their favor but fail to mention it when it is not.  I have not heard a thing
about the laws that clearly state that in the United States, the meteorite
belongs to the land owner, not the finder. You can't have it both ways.

Best Regards,

Adam



----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Bowling <minador at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 9:49:41 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'

Thanks Shawn, that article is just the mindset we don't need in this
country.  I wrote a reply before realizing others had done so already...
:0)

Clear skies,
Mark B.


----- Original Message ----
From: Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 11:51:56 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'

Hello List,

An artical today from The Washington Post on the Lorto Meteorite.

Shawn Alan

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/02/AR2010020203
028.html
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
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From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Feb  4 15:34:21 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:34:21 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball Over Ireland
In-Reply-To: <4B6A16FA.9080204@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4B6A16FA.9080204@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B2F4D.1020406@meteoritesusa.com>

Another link and report video:

Ireland's blazing fireball 'huge event' - Sub context - "Meteorites are 
worth lots of money!"
http://www.u.tv/News/Irelands-blazing-fireball-huge-event/ac9cfb55-f1ea-4ff8-904c-ce46f1574c24

Regards,
Eric


On 2/3/2010 4:38 PM, Meteorites USA wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> http://www.universetoday.com/2010/02/03/huge-fireball-reported-over-ireland/ 
>
>
> ?A major explosion happened in the sky over Ireland. We think it?s a 
> fireball, that?s a rock from space the earth has slammed into and they 
> burn up as huge shooting stars. This one appears to have lit up the 
> whole country. The phones here in Astronomy Ireland are going crazy.? 
> SOURCE - 
> http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0203/breaking85.htm
>
> IrishAstronomy.org - 
> http://www.irishastronomy.org/cms/forum?func=view&catid=11&id=83520#83539
>
> http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0203/meteorite.html
>
> Enjoy...
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Feb  4 15:41:46 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:41:46 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] For all you people claiming guns are safe
In-Reply-To: <286513.22811.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <286513.22811.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46cmm51h4dr7l0lorq9jjrlcbuppgi92hv@4ax.com>

Suck on this!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/01/ap/strange/main6162474.shtml

Next time you run across Hopper in a strewnfield, things might not end well for
you.


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Feb  4 15:43:10 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:43:10 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] For all you people claiming guns are safe
In-Reply-To: <46cmm51h4dr7l0lorq9jjrlcbuppgi92hv@4ax.com>
References: <286513.22811.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<46cmm51h4dr7l0lorq9jjrlcbuppgi92hv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B315E.9060603@meteoritesusa.com>

Darren, Your post is ridiculous and proves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING other than 
a numerical statistic.

Regards,
Eric


On 2/4/2010 12:41 PM, Darren Garrison wrote:
> Suck on this!
>
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/01/ap/strange/main6162474.shtml
>
> Next time you run across Hopper in a strewnfield, things might not end well for
> you.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


From cdtucson at cox.net  Thu Feb  4 15:45:11 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:45:11 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
In-Reply-To: <CE492ACF-6801-48C4-A973-9D321ABF17D3@att.net>
Message-ID: <20100204154511.DHE1O.309367.imail@fed1rmwml43>

George,
You make a very good point here. The question I have is why do you think this is so cut and dry.
I mean one could argue that the doctors were in legal control of this rented office space at the time of the collision. Are they not renting the air space? I understand they do not own the building or the land but they do own legal right to the use of the property. Don't you think it should be up to the courts to decide who owns a visitor that lands on and subsequently inside the building?
For an example of a similar situation; If a patient dropped say a dollar bill on the floor during a visit and walks out, does that dollar bill automatically become owned by the  landlord? I think it might belong to the finder? 
Were the courts correct in their ruling in the Hodges case? 
I mean, if I got hit by a meteorite the least I should get is ownership. Maybe I'm wrong but, I am not the decider here.
I think the courts should take a look at this case for clarification between legal usage and legal ownership issues. What if it had killed the doctor? 
Could the doctors wife sue based on the fact that the landlords own it whether they claim it or not? 
Because certainly if somebody slipped on a banana peel the landlord is safe from restitution by the injured and the liability should fall (no pun intended) on the tenants. I mean afterall they do have legal use of the space.
I understand the current precedent goes to the land owner but,
I think the question is basically a landlord tenant question. If in legal possession of the land and or air space. Who owns a rock that lands there? Carl

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- George Blahun Jr <ks1u at att.net> wrote: 
> We should all be concerned about this law and not be complacent.  Up until the 1980s the Communications Act of 1934 prohibited anyone from owning the electromagnetic spectrum.  It was considered the "peoples spectrum".  During the 1980s the telecommunications industry bought off a corrupt and ignorant congress and FCC and had the laws rewritten.   In that case the ownership by the people, I felt, was a good thing.  After all those radio waves are constantly passing through our bodies and on our properties, so we should all have access to them. Instead of insisting on the industry encrypting their signals, it became illegal to descramble any radio or tv signals unless you paid some company.  In the current view, the land owner does (and I believe should) have ownership of meteorites.  We should all be vigilant that some politician or museum director does not start an effort to overturn this.  All it takes is some money and a few greedy politicians (redundant I know).  I don'
 t 
>  see any immediate changes on the horizon, I'm just cautioning against complacency.
> 
> George 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Feb  4 15:52:22 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:52:22 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Talk About Meteorites
In-Reply-To: <4B6B315E.9060603@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <286513.22811.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<46cmm51h4dr7l0lorq9jjrlcbuppgi92hv@4ax.com>
	<4B6B315E.9060603@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B3386.8070302@meteoritesusa.com>

This is the Meteorite List! Get rid of the gun talk on this list already.

The Tucson show is in town!
Meteorites are EVERYWHERE in the news right now!
The Meteorite Men show ROCKS!
Two Asteroids just smashed into one another in the asteroid belt AND it 
was captured on film for the first time in history and it only gets a 
brief mention on list!
There's a HUGE battle happening over the Lorton meteorite which could 
shape the future of meteorites and the meteorite world as a whole and 
hardly anyone is saying a word about it publicly.
A new meteorite fall in Ireland may have just happened!

Why the hell are we talking about guns? Cut the crap and lets talk 
meteorites already.

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Feb  4 16:12:39 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:12:39 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] For all you people claiming guns are safe
In-Reply-To: <46cmm51h4dr7l0lorq9jjrlcbuppgi92hv@4ax.com>
References: <286513.22811.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<46cmm51h4dr7l0lorq9jjrlcbuppgi92hv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B3847.1010306@meteoritesusa.com>

Perhaps I overreacted on Darren's "humorous" post. If so my apologies to 
Darren.

Regards,
Eric

On 2/4/2010 12:41 PM, Darren Garrison wrote:
> Suck on this!
>
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/01/ap/strange/main6162474.shtml
>
> Next time you run across Hopper in a strewnfield, things might not end well for
> you.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


From ks1u at att.net  Thu Feb  4 16:17:20 2010
From: ks1u at att.net (George Blahun Jr)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:17:20 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
References: <F41E809B-6173-452A-92F6-74198D23BA17@att.net>
Message-ID: <A0F7116A-C074-4FE1-995C-B28BF2B69039@att.net>




Carl:
    Hello and thanks for your comments and point of view.  I actually didn't intend for this to be taken as cut and  dry.  I do come down on the side of the land owners, but my reference to the EM Spectrum implies that there is always another point of view.  If you were unfortunate enough to be hit by a meteorite on someone else's property, I believe you'd be entitled to damages for your injury and pain and suffering.   If you were walking on my property here in CT and one of my black walnut trees fell on you, you could (and should) file a claim against my home owners policy, but I don't think you'd get to keep the black walnut tree which is probably  worth about 10K for the wood.  
     In your example of the dollar bill, a fairly insignificant amount if you can afford to see a doctor, the dollar probably goes to the finder.  But if you drop your Maui Jim sunglasses there, you still have the right to them and neither the finder nor the doctor nor the landlord owns them.  Of course most communities have a procedure for claiming a lost and found, unlike a space rock.  This series of events changes if the object which hits you is from a military satellite.   They'd deny any responsibility but want it back anyhow. 

    There was a court case recently where a contractor was removing a wall in a house and found a bunch of money which had been hidden in there for decades.  The contractor tried to claim it using the old legal defense of "finders keepers losers weepers"  but the courts said, no.  
    I guess we all have a slight bias when interpreting the law and what constitutes ownership.  This no doubt determines which side of this issue we each come down on.

George




From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Feb  4 16:49:19 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:49:19 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Hey,
	Abboooott-- Holocene Impact Working Group still grasping at straws
In-Reply-To: <A93FD8E7B0574584882428072D067624@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <EA04A889FC634222AB5C3974BF54023E@ATARIENGINE2>
	<di0km59bvbdj6p08r4jiaa8dsnplvfbpuq@4ax.com>
	<92C58D26AE7A482280F0705D2F1EB4C5@ATARIENGINE2>
	<1fnkm5d67pmqn49cjbrvcjektscf7e6n4c@4ax.com>
	<A93FD8E7B0574584882428072D067624@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <evfmm5tl7e0pkvau84dko0bp8hnr7onv9j@4ax.com>

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/02/100203-asteroid-collision-earth-global-cooling/

Giant Meteorites Slammed Earth Around A.D. 500?
Double impact may have caused tsunami, global cooling

Richard A. Lovett

for National Geographic News

Published February 3, 2010

Pieces of a giant asteroid or comet that broke apart over Earth may have crashed
off Australia about 1,500 years ago, says a scientist who has found evidence of
the possible impact craters.

Satellite measurements of the Gulf of Carpentaria (see map) revealed tiny
changes in sea level that are signs of impact craters on the seabed below,
according to new research by marine geophysicist Dallas Abbott.

Based on the satellite data, one crater should be about 11 miles (18 kilometers)
wide, while the other should be 7.4 miles (12 kilometers) wide.

For years Abbott, of Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, has
argued that V-shaped sand dunes along the gulf coast are evidence of a tsunami
triggered by an impact.

"These dunes are like arrows that point toward their source," Abbott said. In
this case, the dunes converge on a single point in the gulf?the same spot where
Abbott found the two sea-surface depressions.

The new work is the latest among several clues linking a major impact event to
an episode of global cooling that affected crop harvests from A.D. 536 to 545,
Abbott contends.

According to the theory, material thrown high into the atmosphere by the
Carpentaria strike probably triggered the cooling, which has been pinpointed in
tree-ring data from Asia and Europe.

What's more, around the same time the Roman Empire was falling apart in Europe,
Aborigines in Australia may have witnessed and recorded the double impact, she
said.

Aborigine Eyewitnesses

Based on the new research, Abbott thinks the two craters were made by an object
that split into pieces as it approached Earth.

To make a pair of craters this big in the seafloor's soft sediments, the
original object must have been about 2,000 feet (600 meters) across before it
broke up, she said.

Core samples from the region back up the case for such an impact, Abbott added.
Previous research had found that the samples contain smooth, magnetic spherules,
which were probably created when the object's explosive landing melted material
and blasted it into the sky.

Furthermore, a 2004 paper in the journal Astronomy and Geophysics suggested that
the circa-A.D. 500 global cooling event might have been caused by dust from an
impact of approximately the size Abbott has now calculated for Carpentaria.

It's even possible the impact had eyewitnesses: Aboriginal rock art from the
region seems to have recorded the event, although the researchers examining this
art declined to discuss details until after their paper has been published.

Still, Duane Hamacher, a Ph.D. student at Macquarie University in Sydney not
involved with the rock-art work, recently demonstrated that Aboriginal stories
can be used to locate meteorite craters.

"Numerous examples of fiery stars falling from the sky and striking the earth,
causing death and destruction, are found throughout Aboriginal Dreamings
[spiritual folk stories] across Australia," Hamacher wrote on his blog.

"The descriptions seem to indicate that the events were witnessed, not simply
'made-up.'"

In findings yet to be published, Hamacher used one set of Aboriginal stories,
along with images in Google Earth, to locate a 919-foot-wide (280-meter-wide)
impact crater in Palm Valley, in Australia's Northern Territory.

Too Many Meteorite Strikes?

But some experts are skeptical of Abbott's conclusions, which were presented
last December at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco.

One potential problem is the presence of two separate craters at the Gulf of
Carpentaria site, said physicist Mark Boslough of Sandia National Laboratories
in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

If a large impactor had broken up on its final approach to Earth, he said, the
fragments would still have been very, very close together when they landed: "It
essentially will behave as one piece," creating a single crater, Boslough said.

In addition, he said, Abbott and other members of an informal association called
the Holocene Impact Working Group are finding evidence for more impact events
than astronomers calculate should be possible.

Abbott and colleagues argue that several climate events during the Holocene
epoch?11,500 years ago to the present?were actually triggered by impacts, and
therefore such large impacts are more common than currently believed.

Boslough and other experts, meanwhile, have been cataloging asteroids and other
bodies that cross Earth's orbit and calculating how frequently space rocks
should strike the planet.

"We have a pretty good idea about how many there are and what the frequency of
impact should be, and the abundances based on [the working group's claimed
crater count] are orders of magnitude greater than what astronomers observe,"
Boslough said.

"It's pretty hard to imagine where these things could be coming from so that
astronomers wouldn't see them."

Instead, it's more likely that the craters found by the working group have
volcanic origins, the impact skeptics conclude.

Abbott acknowledges that her case for Carpentaria isn't 100-percent proven. But
in general, she said, "I think we're getting very close to being able to show
there were a lot of impacts in the last 10,000 years."


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 16:44:18 2010
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:44:18 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <5ddd37461002040953k2be95d1pc6998d13ef731fb4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<e51421551002040631i78fb98acg5196995fa8adda80@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ddd37461002040953k2be95d1pc6998d13ef731fb4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac891002041344ge1b243bxfae684f7ce12a57f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Mike, Robert, All,

> Mike G. I would like to point out that Michael Johnson has has made a
> huge impact on this community, he tries his best to represent people
> that are from all walks of life in the meteorite world, for you to
> target him as using "poor judgement" is insulting, that is just YOUR
> opinion, not fact as stated by you.

And he's fully entitled to that opinion.  And sometimes people who are
in positions of power and who have done good things make mistakes.  It
happens.  Happened.

> I am not your "son" and please
> correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall seeing you at any state
> shoots, ranges, or having read your scores, or article's in any
> firearms publications. Are you a gunsmith? Did you ever shoot
> professionally? Do you have a piece of paper on the wall that says you
> know what you are talking about?

It doesn't take firing a gun, making a gun, or being trained to use a
gun to know more about statistics and what they say about
gun ownership.  That's like saying a pyro should be well-versed in
fire safety and know that starting fires is dangerous, and probably
shouldn't be done.

> You say that it is ?incorrect to
> state that "it is people, not guns that kill" Show me one case of a
> firearm autonomously 'jumping up and killing someone'. A person is
> involved 100% percent of the time.

And a gun is involved in 100% of firearm deaths.  And there are a lot
of those.

> toting around grandpa's squirrel
> gun, and telling stories at your local bar does not mean you know
> it all, but it is a good indicator of your mindset. Robert.

Sorry, I'm late for the lesbian tree-hugger benefit.  Gotta get there
before the sun goes down.

Jason

> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
> <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Robert and List,
>>
>> Ok everyone, this is getting tiresome.
>>
>> We are all overlooking the obvious - it was poor judgement on Michael
>> Johnson's part to post that photo. ?Period. ?Regardless of one's views
>> on guns, this List is global and that photo was bound to stir up
>> trouble - it doesn't take a psychic or mind reader to know that.
>> Posting that photo was essentially a troll - perhaps not intentional,
>> but the effect was the same.
>>
>> It should be common sense not to post controversial material on a public list.
>>
>> You say you are a "expert in the gun field" - Listen son, I was toting
>> around guns before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye. ?There is
>> nothing you can tell me about guns that I don't already know and I
>> have forgotten more about guns than you will ever hope to know. ?So go
>> take your passionate "it's people not guns that kill" defense and call
>> it in to your favorite right-wing AM-radio talk show - I'm sure you'll
>> have a eager audience of Rush Limbaugh fans to agree with you.
>>
>> This is not a matter of pushing delete when you see something you
>> don't like - it's called "ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY" - not
>> "POINTING GUNS AT METEORITE PEOPLE PICTURE OF THE DAY". ?Can you not
>> see that the photo could have been completely unexpected to many and
>> they were caught off-guard by it?
>>
>> It was fine to stage to photo, it was perfectly good to have fun, it
>> was fine to share the photo with friends. ?It was poor judgement to
>> post that photo to the Meteorite List.
>>
>> Now excuse me, I have to go host a benefit for retired lesbian tree
>> huggers at my solar-energy-powered gay bar.
>>
>> Best regards and happy hunting,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
>> On 2/3/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Mike Gilmer
>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From cdtucson at cox.net  Thu Feb  4 16:44:44 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:44:44 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
 rock'
In-Reply-To: <A0F7116A-C074-4FE1-995C-B28BF2B69039@att.net>
Message-ID: <20100204164444.CNR73.310483.imail@fed1rmwml43>

George. 
Just one moment here. What if the rightful owner of the glasses never claims 
them? you have no idea who left them. Could have been a visitor asking for 
directions. Who owns them? The landlord??? Nobody is not the right answer here. 
Also, Nobody wants your tree but the key is that it is yours! 
What if you are leasing the tree in a business that sells the fruit? Who is 
responsible then? The owner of the tree or you because you are in legal control 
of it. Just asking. 
In the case of the contractor. Well, he did discover the treasure inside the 
wall. What most would have done is haul it off into the truck as he was 
contracted to do and never mention it ( haul away the debris) . What he did do 
is tell the home owner and she wanted all of it. This case ended in all of her 
relatives learning of it and the sum was divided many ways between all of them. 
She got greedy and lost more than she gained . I love this case because greed 
did not prevail. Her greed cost her mucho dineros . As a side note the 
contractor did the right thing but it came down to. "No good deed goes 
unpunished". As much as I hate to say that. 
 I was an Architect/contractor and I know most of my subs would have simply 
hauled away the envelope with the rest of the debris, medicine cabinet and all. 
Plus she was lucky the envelope had her relatives name on it because it might 
have belonged to a previous home owner. all of this played out in court. which 
is why I want to see this in court. 
I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed. land. The 
fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found on Fed. land all went 
to the smithsonian. That is why the strewn field looks so bottom heavy. Take 
care and thank you.. Carl 
-- 
Carl or Debbie Esparza 
Meteoritemax 
 
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- George Blahun Jr <ks1u at att.net> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> Carl:
>     Hello and thanks for your comments and point of view.  I actually didn't intend for this to be taken as cut and  dry.  I do come down on the side of the land owners, but my reference to the EM Spectrum implies that there is always another point of view.  If you were unfortunate enough to be hit by a meteorite on someone else's property, I believe you'd be entitled to damages for your injury and pain and suffering.   If you were walking on my property here in CT and one of my black walnut trees fell on you, you could (and should) file a claim against my home owners policy, but I don't think you'd get to keep the black walnut tree which is probably  worth about 10K for the wood.  
>      In your example of the dollar bill, a fairly insignificant amount if you can afford to see a doctor, the dollar probably goes to the finder.  But if you drop your Maui Jim sunglasses there, you still have the right to them and neither the finder nor the doctor nor the landlord owns them.  Of course most communities have a procedure for claiming a lost and found, unlike a space rock.  This series of events changes if the object which hits you is from a military satellite.   They'd deny any responsibility but want it back anyhow. 
> 
>     There was a court case recently where a contractor was removing a wall in a house and found a bunch of money which had been hidden in there for decades.  The contractor tried to claim it using the old legal defense of "finders keepers losers weepers"  but the courts said, no.  
>     I guess we all have a slight bias when interpreting the law and what constitutes ownership.  This no doubt determines which side of this issue we each come down on.
> 
> George
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 16:20:52 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:20:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Value and the Media
Message-ID: <67840.42395.qm@web113605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Micheal,

I can understand your frustration with the media emphasizing the value of meteorites and making that the focus of many articles and features about meteorites. I've been a little disappointed myself with the focus of, I'll mention it by name, Meteorite Men, in that the production company continues to mention throughout the episodes how much meteorites are worth. I don't blame Geoff or Steve for this. I'm sure they have emphasized more than just their value to the crew...

Let's really be honest though. Meteorites ARE valuable and have been for a much longer time than Geoff and Steve have been involved in TV... Much longer than the time since Bob Haag sold his first stone and much, much longer than since Nininger was a child. Man has always placed a high value on these stones falling from the sky; Gifts from the gods...

As someone who has dealt with the media for over a decade myself, trying to convey scientific information, I long ago realized they have there own agenda. They already have the story and the slant they want to write about in place long before they contact you for the details to flesh out the article or TV segment. You are not going to change that, ever...

I've spent untold hours explaining facts and details, only to have the same reporter contact me again and again asking about the same things for a second or third time. Guess what? They still get it wrong. I've got a few reporters I will no longer give the time of day to due to the amount of my time they've wasted and others whom I expect to get the facts close, but rarely the whole cigar...

While I agree with you that it would be great if these stories would focus more on the science, the beauty, the mystery of meteorites, highly-weathered, ordinary chondrites that are only worth a few cents per gram that almost anyone can afford to buy and collect are not what the reporter has in mind when he or she thinks of meteorites and neither do their readers, listeners or watchers... Its a meteorite, a gift from the gods... It MUST be hugely valuable or They wouldn't have given it to us...

Nothing you say or do is going to change that attitude any time soon.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


      


From ks1u at att.net  Thu Feb  4 17:23:28 2010
From: ks1u at att.net (George Blahun Jr)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:23:28 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
References: <C51C05B8-CC2F-4234-BBF0-B4BAF6BC93A9@att.net>
Message-ID: <47BEC4A8-B8C0-4450-876D-7BA14302DA1E@att.net>




Carl:
    Your examples show why there are so many 5-4 decisions on the supreme court.  There are at least two legal viewpoints and a practical, though not necessarily legal one, take the money and run.  I know we could probably keep going back and forth with this issue, invoking analogies all day.  The issue of ownership is an interesting legal and philosophical issue.  I always remember the Native American position, "The earth does not belong to us, we belong to the earth".  I'll bet, if asked, they'd have an answer for meteorites and sunglasses.

George




From cdtucson at cox.net  Thu Feb  4 17:33:37 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:33:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
 rock'
In-Reply-To: <47BEC4A8-B8C0-4450-876D-7BA14302DA1E@att.net>
Message-ID: <20100204173337.J279H.311407.imail@fed1rmwml43>

You are quite right. As is my favorite mentor. .
"Possession isn't nine-tenths of the law. It's nine-tenths of the problem. "
John Lennon. 

Thanks Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- George Blahun Jr <ks1u at att.net> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> Carl:
>     Your examples show why there are so many 5-4 decisions on the supreme court.  There are at least two legal viewpoints and a practical, though not necessarily legal one, take the money and run.  I know we could probably keep going back and forth with this issue, invoking analogies all day.  The issue of ownership is an interesting legal and philosophical issue.  I always remember the Native American position, "The earth does not belong to us, we belong to the earth".  I'll bet, if asked, they'd have an answer for meteorites and sunglasses.
> 
> George
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Thu Feb  4 17:40:05 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:40:05 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Value and the Media
In-Reply-To: <67840.42395.qm@web113605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <67840.42395.qm@web113605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005901caa5ea$ffd50000$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Well, Richard,

Today I was in the streets of Munich.
Guess what I saw.  Cars!

IMAGINE such a car can be worth THOUSANDS of $$$$ !!

Cars can cost a fortune!!


Don't be frustrated, indeed a reporter wants to have his story as
interesting as possible and as he has no knowledge about meteorites, he will
always choose the safe option: Money.

And for that purpose it simply doesn't work, if you tell him, that
meteorites are the same rare like quality diamonds, but that with a kg of
those meteorites, which are found by most, you can pay 1 steak & 1 drink at
a restaurant.

Hehe, my last interview was with the Financial Times Germany.
Was after the Danish fireball, before it was recovered.
I told theem, that it won't have any monetary value, because according the
Danish laws, it has to be given to the museum and can't be sold.
And that most probably nothing will be recovered, cause because of that,
quite nobody will search for the fall.
Told him a hundred times the usual price level for meteorites...

...and the result I could read in the end, was,
that I would have said,
if one could manage to bring that meteorite out of the country, it will have
a value of 20,000$ a gram !!!

I disagree, meteorite men don't have anything to do with that perception.
75% of all people writing and calling us, believing to have found a
meteorite, do have only one interest:  How can I make money with it.

And these are normal people. Not like us here on the list.
"Normal" people don't have to do anything with meteorites all their life
long.
All they know about, is fantasy or stuff from movies.
So most of them are from the beginning on believing, that a meteorite must
be the most valuable thing on Earth and that with their find, they can buy a
villa with pool, a yacht and won't have to work anymore for the rest of
their life.
There I see no change during the last 10 years
and here in Europe we can't watch the meteorite men series.

And anyway. Meteorites are ways more cheap today then 10 years ago 30 years
ago, 70 years ago, 100 years ago.
How could we blame a Steve Arnold?
With their Brenham finds, what do we have to pay for Brenham today?
Ward, Nininger, Huss, Zeitschel - they asked a multiple for Brenham than one
has to pay today.

More truculent it is, when scientists are telling in media, that meteorites
would be worth a fortune - like it happened unfortunately so often in past.
Eeeeeeeek the treasure hunters will come, aaaaaargh sience can't compete
with private collecting nowadays, cause they made meteorites soooo
expensive, uuuuuuuuuuuh there is a black market for meteorite, where people
get billionaires....
You know, all that silly stuff, from those, who never look into web, how
cheap meteorites are or from those, who don't know the meteorite prices of
the last 200 years, neither the sums science had to spend in past or has to
spend for own projects to recover meteorites.

That is the major problem.
But I think, at least those scientists present on the list here
do know it better and won't tell such a rubbish in media.

Skol!
Martin






-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Richard
Kowalski
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. Februar 2010 22:21
An: meteorite list
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Value and the Media

Micheal,

I can understand your frustration with the media emphasizing the value of
meteorites and making that the focus of many articles and features about
meteorites. I've been a little disappointed myself with the focus of, I'll
mention it by name, Meteorite Men, in that the production company continues
to mention throughout the episodes how much meteorites are worth. I don't
blame Geoff or Steve for this. I'm sure they have emphasized more than just
their value to the crew...

Let's really be honest though. Meteorites ARE valuable and have been for a
much longer time than Geoff and Steve have been involved in TV... Much
longer than the time since Bob Haag sold his first stone and much, much
longer than since Nininger was a child. Man has always placed a high value
on these stones falling from the sky; Gifts from the gods...

As someone who has dealt with the media for over a decade myself, trying to
convey scientific information, I long ago realized they have there own
agenda. They already have the story and the slant they want to write about
in place long before they contact you for the details to flesh out the
article or TV segment. You are not going to change that, ever...

I've spent untold hours explaining facts and details, only to have the same
reporter contact me again and again asking about the same things for a
second or third time. Guess what? They still get it wrong. I've got a few
reporters I will no longer give the time of day to due to the amount of my
time they've wasted and others whom I expect to get the facts close, but
rarely the whole cigar...

While I agree with you that it would be great if these stories would focus
more on the science, the beauty, the mystery of meteorites,
highly-weathered, ordinary chondrites that are only worth a few cents per
gram that almost anyone can afford to buy and collect are not what the
reporter has in mind when he or she thinks of meteorites and neither do
their readers, listeners or watchers... Its a meteorite, a gift from the
gods... It MUST be hugely valuable or They wouldn't have given it to us...

Nothing you say or do is going to change that attitude any time soon.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


      
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk  Thu Feb  4 18:20:42 2010
From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk (jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:20:42 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ireland fireball---report from the Emerald Isle
Message-ID: <33525835.72781265325642147.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>

Meteorite listees
                  Since learning of this fireball initially from this 
list last night I have been monitering the situation closely.Sightings 
were being reported from far and wide,almost literally the whole upper 
North half of the island of Ireland seem to have witnessed this 
incoming strike.

There were reports all over the interweb and on radio and tv here 
about a possible landing in County Cavan so that had me really excited 
and I was up early this morning prepared to drive down-it's about a 2 
hour drive from me and coincidentally it just happens to be an area I'm 
familiar with as we have a family holiday home in County Cavan in the 
town of Belturbet about 15 miles or so from the supposed impact site in 
Crimlin.

I was trying to get a grip on why everyone was hyping the Crimlin zone 
as a possile impact point before I drove down as this area is dotted 
with many lakes and loughs and it would need to be a good lead before I 
cancelled my previous itinerary for the day.However I finally caught an 
interview with the farmer in question who I believe has initiated this 
Crimlin frenzy and he was less than convincing shall we say.There was 
no mention of him hearing anything-let alone even a sonic boom.He said 
the thing was slowing down and landed in the back of his fields--he was 
out there looking for burned earth and obviously hadn't a clue that 
this thing could have landed 50 miles away.

Other people have reported it landing in Omagh, or Lough Neagh and 
even as far north as Derry.Until some more witness reports materialise 
or cctv footage surfaces I'll be holding my horses.
But ready to go at a moments notice if any radar data or something 
good materialises.
It rained much of today too so these stones that very likely are lying 
out there somewhere are starting to weather.
All the best
Jim Brady




From jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk  Thu Feb  4 18:59:42 2010
From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk (jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:59:42 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ireland fireball---report from the Emerald Isle
Message-ID: <235176.72991265327982719.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>

just found a link to what the farmer said.He reckons it was 'not that 
far up'

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/202435-Ireland-So-where-did-fireball-
land-after-blazing-our-skies-

If I thought there was even a 10% chance of something being in that 
area I'd go down with an assortment of meteorites for them to examine 
but the lack of noise reports concerns me.

Jim


From m_graul at yahoo.de  Thu Feb  4 19:47:30 2010
From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 00:47:30 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: NWA 6000 to 6009 AHOW,R-Chondrite and other
Message-ID: <348216.927.qm@web26306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,

in 24 hours end on ebay some auctions of the new NWA numbers
NWA 6001/6002/6003/6004/6005/6006/6007/6008 and 6009.

And also maybe my other offers are interesting?

http://stores.ebay.com/Mirko-Graul-Meteorite?_rdc=1

Many greetings to all,

Mirko
    

Mirko Graul Meteorite 
Quittenring.4 
16321 Bernau 
GERMANY 

Phone: 0049-1724105015 
E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de 
WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de 

Member of The Meteoritical Society 
(International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) 

IMCA-Member: 2113 
(International Meteorite Collectors Association)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verf?gt ?ber einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 19:55:37 2010
From: ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com (Robert Ward)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:55:37 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <93aaac891002041344ge1b243bxfae684f7ce12a57f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<e51421551002040631i78fb98acg5196995fa8adda80@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ddd37461002040953k2be95d1pc6998d13ef731fb4@mail.gmail.com>
	<93aaac891002041344ge1b243bxfae684f7ce12a57f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5ddd37461002041655rb9a9746ve52b34207b18d7@mail.gmail.com>

Hey meteoritekid, may I suggest that you "unplug" for a while, go
outside, and get some real world experience, perhaps then you can base
your arguments off something more substantial than than charts,
graphs, and statistics put together by some professor in a office
somewhere that you have never met. You said "the redneck crap" "is a
culture that people tend to view negatively", glad to know how you
feel about my culture and that you view people like me as second rate
citizens, that is not very tolerant for such a leftist. You must live
in a scary world.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Mike, Robert, All,
>
>> Mike G. I would like to point out that Michael Johnson has has made a
>> huge impact on this community, he tries his best to represent people
>> that are from all walks of life in the meteorite world, for you to
>> target him as using "poor judgement" is insulting, that is just YOUR
>> opinion, not fact as stated by you.
>
> And he's fully entitled to that opinion. ?And sometimes people who are
> in positions of power and who have done good things make mistakes. ?It
> happens. ?Happened.
>
>> I am not your "son" and please
>> correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall seeing you at any state
>> shoots, ranges, or having read your scores, or article's in any
>> firearms publications. Are you a gunsmith? Did you ever shoot
>> professionally? Do you have a piece of paper on the wall that says you
>> know what you are talking about?
>
> It doesn't take firing a gun, making a gun, or being trained to use a
> gun to know more about statistics and what they say about
> gun ownership. ?That's like saying a pyro should be well-versed in
> fire safety and know that starting fires is dangerous, and probably
> shouldn't be done.
>
>> You say that it is ?incorrect to
>> state that "it is people, not guns that kill" Show me one case of a
>> firearm autonomously 'jumping up and killing someone'. A person is
>> involved 100% percent of the time.
>
> And a gun is involved in 100% of firearm deaths. ?And there are a lot
> of those.
>
>> toting around grandpa's squirrel
>> gun, and telling stories at your local bar does not mean you know
>> it all, but it is a good indicator of your mindset. Robert.
>
> Sorry, I'm late for the lesbian tree-hugger benefit. ?Gotta get there
> before the sun goes down.
>
> Jason
>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
>> <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Robert and List,
>>>
>>> Ok everyone, this is getting tiresome.
>>>
>>> We are all overlooking the obvious - it was poor judgement on Michael
>>> Johnson's part to post that photo. ?Period. ?Regardless of one's views
>>> on guns, this List is global and that photo was bound to stir up
>>> trouble - it doesn't take a psychic or mind reader to know that.
>>> Posting that photo was essentially a troll - perhaps not intentional,
>>> but the effect was the same.
>>>
>>> It should be common sense not to post controversial material on a public list.
>>>
>>> You say you are a "expert in the gun field" - Listen son, I was toting
>>> around guns before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye. ?There is
>>> nothing you can tell me about guns that I don't already know and I
>>> have forgotten more about guns than you will ever hope to know. ?So go
>>> take your passionate "it's people not guns that kill" defense and call
>>> it in to your favorite right-wing AM-radio talk show - I'm sure you'll
>>> have a eager audience of Rush Limbaugh fans to agree with you.
>>>
>>> This is not a matter of pushing delete when you see something you
>>> don't like - it's called "ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY" - not
>>> "POINTING GUNS AT METEORITE PEOPLE PICTURE OF THE DAY". ?Can you not
>>> see that the photo could have been completely unexpected to many and
>>> they were caught off-guard by it?
>>>
>>> It was fine to stage to photo, it was perfectly good to have fun, it
>>> was fine to share the photo with friends. ?It was poor judgement to
>>> post that photo to the Meteorite List.
>>>
>>> Now excuse me, I have to go host a benefit for retired lesbian tree
>>> huggers at my solar-energy-powered gay bar.
>>>
>>> Best regards and happy hunting,
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/3/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>>>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>>>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>>>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>>>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>>>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>>>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>>>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>>>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>>>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>>>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>>>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>>>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>>>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>>>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>>>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>>>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>>>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>>>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>>>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>>>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>>>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>>>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>>>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>>>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>>>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>>>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>>>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Mike Gilmer
>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>


From ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 19:59:53 2010
From: ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com (Robert Ward)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:59:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Large California Fireball last night
Message-ID: <5ddd37461002041659p1dd54478nc416041b39d80bcc@mail.gmail.com>

A Fireball was reported by an observer South of Fresno last night in
the early evening, the fireball was low on the horizon, East of the
observer, traveling in a Northerly direction and broke into many
pieces. I checked with Yuba City Sentinel, nothing. Any other reports
out there?   I am on my way back to Tucson, look forward to seeing
everyone at the party!  Robert.


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Feb  4 20:05:04 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:05:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pluto's White,
	Dark-Orange and Charcoal-Black Terrain Captured by NASA's Hubble
Message-ID: <201002050105.o151544M019600@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



Feb. 4, 2010

J.D. Harrington 
Headquarters, Washington      
202-358-5241 
j.d.harrington at nasa.gov 

Ray Villard 
Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore 
410-338-4514 
villard at stsci.edu 

RELEASE: 10-033

PLUTO'S WHITE, DARK-ORANGE AND CHARCOAL-BLACK TERRAIN CAPTURED BY NASA'S HUBBLE

WASHINGTON -- NASA has released the most detailed and dramatic images 
ever taken of the distant dwarf planet Pluto. The images from NASA's 
Hubble Space Telescope show an icy, mottled, dark molasses-colored 
world undergoing seasonal surface color and brightness changes. 

Pluto has become significantly redder, while its illuminated northern 
hemisphere is getting brighter. These changes are most likely 
consequences of surface ice melting on the sunlit pole and then 
refreezing on the other pole, as the dwarf planet heads into the next 
phase of its 248-year-long seasonal cycle. Analysis shows the 
dramatic change in color took place from 2000 to 2002. 

The Hubble pictures confirm Pluto is a dynamic world that undergoes 
dramatic atmospheric changes not simply a ball of ice and rock. These 
dynamic seasonal changes are as much propelled by the planet's 
248-year elliptical orbit as by its axial tilt. Pluto is unlike 
Earth, where the planet's tilt alone drives seasons. Pluto's seasons 
are asymmetric because of its elliptical orbit. Spring transitions to 
polar summer quickly in the northern hemisphere, because Pluto is 
moving faster along its orbit when it is closer to the sun. 

Ground-based observations, taken in 1988 and 2002 show the mass of the 
atmosphere doubled during that time. This may be because of warming 
and melting nitrogen ice. The new Hubble images are giving 
astronomers essential clues about the seasons on Pluto and the fate 
of its atmosphere. 

When the Hubble pictures taken in 1994 are compared to those of 2002 
and 2003, astronomers see evidence that the northern polar region has 
gotten brighter, while the southern hemisphere darkened. These 
changes hint at very complex processes affecting the visible surface. 

The images will help planetary astronomers interpret more than three 
decades of Pluto observations from other telescopes. 
"The Hubble observations are the key to tying together these other 
diverse constraints on Pluto and showing how it all makes sense by 
providing a context based on weather and seasonal changes, which 
opens other new lines of investigation," says principal investigator 
Marc Buie of the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colo. 

These Hubble images, taken by the Advanced Camera for Surveys, will 
remain the sharpest view of Pluto until NASA's New Horizons probe is 
within six months of its flyby during 2015. The Hubble images are 
invaluable for picking the planet's most interesting hemisphere for 
imaging by the New Horizons probe. 

New Horizons will pass by Pluto so quickly that only one hemisphere 
will be photographed in detail. Particularly noticeable in the Hubble 
images is a bright spot that has been independently noted to be 
unusually rich in carbon monoxide frost. It is a prime target for New 
Horizons. "Everybody is puzzled by this feature," Buie said. New 
Horizons will get an excellent look at the boundary between this 
bright feature and a nearby region covered in pitch-black surface 
material. 

"The Hubble images also will help New Horizons scientists better 
calculate the exposure time for each Pluto snapshot which is 
important for taking the most detailed pictures possible," Buie said. 
With no chance for re-exposures, accurate models for the surface of 
Pluto are essential for properly exposed images. 

The Hubble images surface variations a few hundred miles across that 
are too coarse for understanding surface geology. But in terms of 
surface color and brightness, Hubble reveals a complex-looking world 
with white, dark-orange and charcoal-black terrain. The overall color 
is believed to be a result of ultraviolet radiation from the distant 
sun breaking up methane present on Pluto's surface, leaving behind a 
dark and red-carbon-rich residue. 

The Hubble images are a few pixels wide. Through a technique called 
dithering, multiple, slightly offset pictures are combined through 
computer-image processing to synthesize a higher-resolution view than 
can be seen in a single exposure. 

"This has taken four years and 20 computers operating continuously and 
simultaneously to accomplish," Buie said. Buie developed the special 
algorithms to sharpen the Hubble data. He plans to use Hubble's new 
Wide Field Camera 3 to make additional observations prior to the 
arrival of New Horizons. 

For Hubble information and images, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/hubble 
	
-end-



From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 20:21:04 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:21:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Value and the Media
Message-ID: <405869.6353.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Martin and List,

I was able to watch one of the Meteorite Men episodes on the Discovery channel. I thought I heard Geoff say that faceted Pallasite olivine sells for $1,000.00/carat and that the 1,400 pound Brenham was worth $1,000,000.00!  I cannot speak about the other episodes since I do not get the science channel.

I know of a 100 kilogram Brenham owner that could not sell at 20 cents a gram.  He advertised on the List for weeks and tried to sell the piece for months. I paid several thousand dollars for a Brenham slice just to have it deteriorate in my safe about ten years ago.  I still carry the bad memory of it flexing back and forth in my hand. The only thing that was holding it together was the lacquer it was coated with.  I hope some collectors new to the hobby do not have a similar experience as this would be very bad.

It is not always a bad thing to mention prices, but please be realistic!


Best Regards,

Adam

          



----- Original Message ----
From: Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 2:40:05 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Value and the Media

Well, Richard,

Today I was in the streets of Munich.
Guess what I saw.  Cars!

IMAGINE such a car can be worth THOUSANDS of $$$$ !!

Cars can cost a fortune!!


Don't be frustrated, indeed a reporter wants to have his story as
interesting as possible and as he has no knowledge about meteorites, he will
always choose the safe option: Money.

And for that purpose it simply doesn't work, if you tell him, that
meteorites are the same rare like quality diamonds, but that with a kg of
those meteorites, which are found by most, you can pay 1 steak & 1 drink at
a restaurant.

Hehe, my last interview was with the Financial Times Germany.
Was after the Danish fireball, before it was recovered.
I told theem, that it won't have any monetary value, because according the
Danish laws, it has to be given to the museum and can't be sold.
And that most probably nothing will be recovered, cause because of that,
quite nobody will search for the fall.
Told him a hundred times the usual price level for meteorites...

...and the result I could read in the end, was,
that I would have said,
if one could manage to bring that meteorite out of the country, it will have
a value of 20,000$ a gram !!!

I disagree, meteorite men don't have anything to do with that perception.
75% of all people writing and calling us, believing to have found a
meteorite, do have only one interest:  How can I make money with it.

And these are normal people. Not like us here on the list.
"Normal" people don't have to do anything with meteorites all their life
long.
All they know about, is fantasy or stuff from movies.
So most of them are from the beginning on believing, that a meteorite must
be the most valuable thing on Earth and that with their find, they can buy a
villa with pool, a yacht and won't have to work anymore for the rest of
their life.
There I see no change during the last 10 years
and here in Europe we can't watch the meteorite men series.

And anyway. Meteorites are ways more cheap today then 10 years ago 30 years
ago, 70 years ago, 100 years ago.
How could we blame a Steve Arnold?
With their Brenham finds, what do we have to pay for Brenham today?
Ward, Nininger, Huss, Zeitschel - they asked a multiple for Brenham than one
has to pay today.

More truculent it is, when scientists are telling in media, that meteorites
would be worth a fortune - like it happened unfortunately so often in past.
Eeeeeeeek the treasure hunters will come, aaaaaargh sience can't compete
with private collecting nowadays, cause they made meteorites soooo
expensive, uuuuuuuuuuuh there is a black market for meteorite, where people
get billionaires....
You know, all that silly stuff, from those, who never look into web, how
cheap meteorites are or from those, who don't know the meteorite prices of
the last 200 years, neither the sums science had to spend in past or has to
spend for own projects to recover meteorites.

That is the major problem.
But I think, at least those scientists present on the list here
do know it better and won't tell such a rubbish in media.

Skol!
Martin






-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Richard
Kowalski
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. Februar 2010 22:21
An: meteorite list
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Value and the Media

Micheal,

I can understand your frustration with the media emphasizing the value of
meteorites and making that the focus of many articles and features about
meteorites. I've been a little disappointed myself with the focus of, I'll
mention it by name, Meteorite Men, in that the production company continues
to mention throughout the episodes how much meteorites are worth. I don't
blame Geoff or Steve for this. I'm sure they have emphasized more than just
their value to the crew...

Let's really be honest though. Meteorites ARE valuable and have been for a
much longer time than Geoff and Steve have been involved in TV... Much
longer than the time since Bob Haag sold his first stone and much, much
longer than since Nininger was a child. Man has always placed a high value
on these stones falling from the sky; Gifts from the gods...

As someone who has dealt with the media for over a decade myself, trying to
convey scientific information, I long ago realized they have there own
agenda. They already have the story and the slant they want to write about
in place long before they contact you for the details to flesh out the
article or TV segment. You are not going to change that, ever...

I've spent untold hours explaining facts and details, only to have the same
reporter contact me again and again asking about the same things for a
second or third time. Guess what? They still get it wrong. I've got a few
reporters I will no longer give the time of day to due to the amount of my
time they've wasted and others whom I expect to get the facts close, but
rarely the whole cigar...

While I agree with you that it would be great if these stories would focus
more on the science, the beauty, the mystery of meteorites,
highly-weathered, ordinary chondrites that are only worth a few cents per
gram that almost anyone can afford to buy and collect are not what the
reporter has in mind when he or she thinks of meteorites and neither do
their readers, listeners or watchers... Its a meteorite, a gift from the
gods... It MUST be hugely valuable or They wouldn't have given it to us...

Nothing you say or do is going to change that attitude any time soon.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


      
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From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 20:25:18 2010
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:25:18 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <5ddd37461002041655rb9a9746ve52b34207b18d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<e51421551002040631i78fb98acg5196995fa8adda80@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ddd37461002040953k2be95d1pc6998d13ef731fb4@mail.gmail.com>
	<93aaac891002041344ge1b243bxfae684f7ce12a57f@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ddd37461002041655rb9a9746ve52b34207b18d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac891002041725w6766de92j2d8bbc8054a81a45@mail.gmail.com>

Hey ironfromthesky,

I'm sorry if you misinterpreted what I said, Robert - there's a reason
I haven't been using that terminology and put that in quotes.  By "the
redneck crap" I meant to refer to what people had been saying about
"rednecks" on the whole, because such sweeping, generalized statements
really don't add much to the discussion, and are liable to insult
people.
Of course, when people are looking to take offense at things that are
being said, it's a little hard to get around it, but, again, I was
addressing what was said.

And it's true, "rednecks" are generally seen in a negative light.
There are jokes about the stereotype, and it's generally not a good
thing to be considered a "redneck."  Hence the offensive comments on
the list, though I was *not* one of the people who made them.

I stand by what I said, but not how you interpreted it.

> get some real world experience, perhaps then you can base
> your arguments off something more substantial than than charts,
> graphs, and statistics put together by some professor in a office
> somewhere that you have never met.

Right, because scientists are so unreliable, and studies that look at
the entire population of this country are certainly less correct than
my rationale regarding the matter.  Surely what I perceive is more
correct than hundreds of studies and millions of dollars of
research....
Come on, man.  Saying that you doubt the credibility of every
scientist you've never met is just...weird.  I mean, great - be
critical and look into the data, but I did check the sources on the
link I posted and they weren't bad.

> You must live in a scary world.

A scary world?  Well, a little, since you're the one with the gun,
but...I'm not scared enough to go out and buy one.
So...maybe you should ask yourself the same question.

Jason

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Robert Ward
<ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey meteoritekid, may I suggest that you "unplug" for a while, go
> outside, and get some real world experience, perhaps then you can base
> your arguments off something more substantial than than charts,
> graphs, and statistics put together by some professor in a office
> somewhere that you have never met. You said "the redneck crap" "is a
> culture that people tend to view negatively", glad to know how you
> feel about my culture and that you view people like me as second rate
> citizens, that is not very tolerant for such a leftist. You must live
> in a scary world.
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Mike, Robert, All,
>>
>>> Mike G. I would like to point out that Michael Johnson has has made a
>>> huge impact on this community, he tries his best to represent people
>>> that are from all walks of life in the meteorite world, for you to
>>> target him as using "poor judgement" is insulting, that is just YOUR
>>> opinion, not fact as stated by you.
>>
>> And he's fully entitled to that opinion. ?And sometimes people who are
>> in positions of power and who have done good things make mistakes. ?It
>> happens. ?Happened.
>>
>>> I am not your "son" and please
>>> correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall seeing you at any state
>>> shoots, ranges, or having read your scores, or article's in any
>>> firearms publications. Are you a gunsmith? Did you ever shoot
>>> professionally? Do you have a piece of paper on the wall that says you
>>> know what you are talking about?
>>
>> It doesn't take firing a gun, making a gun, or being trained to use a
>> gun to know more about statistics and what they say about
>> gun ownership. ?That's like saying a pyro should be well-versed in
>> fire safety and know that starting fires is dangerous, and probably
>> shouldn't be done.
>>
>>> You say that it is ?incorrect to
>>> state that "it is people, not guns that kill" Show me one case of a
>>> firearm autonomously 'jumping up and killing someone'. A person is
>>> involved 100% percent of the time.
>>
>> And a gun is involved in 100% of firearm deaths. ?And there are a lot
>> of those.
>>
>>> toting around grandpa's squirrel
>>> gun, and telling stories at your local bar does not mean you know
>>> it all, but it is a good indicator of your mindset. Robert.
>>
>> Sorry, I'm late for the lesbian tree-hugger benefit. ?Gotta get there
>> before the sun goes down.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
>>> <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Robert and List,
>>>>
>>>> Ok everyone, this is getting tiresome.
>>>>
>>>> We are all overlooking the obvious - it was poor judgement on Michael
>>>> Johnson's part to post that photo. ?Period. ?Regardless of one's views
>>>> on guns, this List is global and that photo was bound to stir up
>>>> trouble - it doesn't take a psychic or mind reader to know that.
>>>> Posting that photo was essentially a troll - perhaps not intentional,
>>>> but the effect was the same.
>>>>
>>>> It should be common sense not to post controversial material on a public list.
>>>>
>>>> You say you are a "expert in the gun field" - Listen son, I was toting
>>>> around guns before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye. ?There is
>>>> nothing you can tell me about guns that I don't already know and I
>>>> have forgotten more about guns than you will ever hope to know. ?So go
>>>> take your passionate "it's people not guns that kill" defense and call
>>>> it in to your favorite right-wing AM-radio talk show - I'm sure you'll
>>>> have a eager audience of Rush Limbaugh fans to agree with you.
>>>>
>>>> This is not a matter of pushing delete when you see something you
>>>> don't like - it's called "ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY" - not
>>>> "POINTING GUNS AT METEORITE PEOPLE PICTURE OF THE DAY". ?Can you not
>>>> see that the photo could have been completely unexpected to many and
>>>> they were caught off-guard by it?
>>>>
>>>> It was fine to stage to photo, it was perfectly good to have fun, it
>>>> was fine to share the photo with friends. ?It was poor judgement to
>>>> post that photo to the Meteorite List.
>>>>
>>>> Now excuse me, I have to go host a benefit for retired lesbian tree
>>>> huggers at my solar-energy-powered gay bar.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards and happy hunting,
>>>>
>>>> MikeG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/3/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>>>>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>>>>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>>>>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>>>>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>>>>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>>>>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>>>>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>>>>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>>>>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>>>>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>>>>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>>>>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>>>>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>>>>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>>>>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>>>>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>>>>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>>>>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>>>>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>>>>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>>>>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>>>>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>>>>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>>>>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>>>>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>>>>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>>>>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Mike Gilmer
>>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 19:54:53 2010
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:54:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day  2
Message-ID: <507131.38431.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone.Well the buying and the selling are done for this day. 65 degree's and sunny here.Just a beautiful day.Well today I went over and visited with erich and sylvia haiderer and saw all there nice wares.Erich did not want to make? a trade because he needed $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ more than meteorites.After that I went over to magic mountain and bought a 679 gram sikhote-alin iron for .95 cents per gram.I choose that over a 1.076 kilo piece.This has more character.After that we went and said hello to jose and the other mohammed.Some really nice campo's and stunning tamdaght pieces.From mohammed I bought a classified CV3 for a $1 a gram.It weighs 270 grams. After that I went over the eisler's to see what they had.Then we went back to the inn suites where we ran into gary fujihara and the count.Count guido deiro.Also getting into town where jason phillips,rob wesel,mike bandli, and greg Hupe'. I also went up to the russians room 338 and bought a 22 gram sa
 with a big hole.So far 5 new meteorites so far.I am also picking up my 128 gram and 40 slice of esquel to night as me and bob c. have dinner with bob haag.Well another nice day here in tucson. Looking forward to another great day tomorrow.Also I had to get a new battery for my camera so I can finally gets some pics up onto my website.Tomorrwo day 3,so good night from sunny tucson.




?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 21:12:17 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:12:17 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <5ddd37461002041655rb9a9746ve52b34207b18d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<e51421551002040631i78fb98acg5196995fa8adda80@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ddd37461002040953k2be95d1pc6998d13ef731fb4@mail.gmail.com>
	<93aaac891002041344ge1b243bxfae684f7ce12a57f@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ddd37461002041655rb9a9746ve52b34207b18d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002041812x75189d6cqe8b1654b3a44cbc6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

This is my last post on this subject - I promise.

This train wreck of negativity over the gun photo has gone too far.  I
played a role in that, and for that I apologize.

There are deep divisions in this country that have been encouraged by
those who will profit from keeping the populace divided.  This country
is the most polarized that I have ever seen, and people who would
normally get along fine are at each other's throats at the drop of a
dime.  That is what is fueling a sizeable portion of the hostility
going on right now, it's not just the guns.  The gun provided a spark
that lit the pool of gasoline that was already there.  I posted some
things that I should not have.  I have strong beliefs and those burst
forth in a couple of frustrated posts that were directed more at an
idea than a person or a gun.

Robert Ward, I apologize for calling you "son" and speaking in a
condescending fashion.  I don't know you and I was lashing out at
something you represent (in my mind) and not you.   I grew up in the
deep south, surrounded by "rednecks".  My father was a redneck.  I
know that calling another man "son" is like a challenge to one's
manhood and it is condescending.   I respect your contributions to
meteoritics and I respect your meteorite hunting skills.  You are a
very underrated hunter and a fair dealer.  I bought a Brenham thin
slice from you a while back on eBay and it is still one of my favorite
pieces.  I have no beef with you personally, unless this episode
created one, which would be regrettable.

For those who may care, here is why I lashed out - my wife is very
sick with chronic health conditions.  I will not go into all of the
long details, but believe me when I say it has been the most difficult
period of our lives.  I almost lost her and sitting in ICU watching
your soulmate fight for life will make a man do some long and hard
thinking.  We don't have health insurance and cannot afford health
insurance because her condition is pre-existing and no insurance
company will touch her with a 10-foot pole, or if they will, the
premiums are so astronomical that they are impossible.  We have never
taken a dime in public assistance and the reason we had no insurance
when her condition arose, is because we both quit full-time management
jobs (and good insurance) to be caregivers for her elderly father who
has Alzheimers - something we did out of love to keep him from going
into a nursing home.   (a fate that a highly-decorated WWII veteran
does not deserve)  So we lost our insurance while we were doing the
right thing - and then my wife got sick.  Where is this going?  All of
the people who are erecting roadblocks to my wife getting affordable
insurance (and thus access to decent healthcare that isn't an
emergency room last resort) are people from the
right/conservative/republican side of the political and social
spectrum.  So, I am developing a big chip on my shoulder towards the
political right because they are, in essence, prolonging my wife's
suffering by preventing meaningful healthcare reform.  And all of the
arguments against it center around money - which doesn't mean a darn
thing to me if I lose my wife and soulmate.  All of the money in the
world won't bring her back if she dies for lack of medical care.
There are other layers to this situation, but I think this explains
the bulk of my frustration.  If you are blessed with good health and
your loved ones are blessed with good health - then wake up each day
be thankful for it - because it is truly a blessing and it can
suddenly be revoked without warning or reason.  This is truly the most
difficult part of my life and my wife's life and it is very
frustrating to be denied medical  care because we lack money and
insurance - and we fall between the cracks in the system.   It is a
nightmare that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

So, when I see/hear/read people from the right-side of the political
spectrum, a surge of hostility, resentment, and frustration wells up
in me. (which is not a good thing, I know).  After I shot my mouth
off, I got a flood replies (some public, some private) and I latched
onto your's because it was the first one I clicked on that disagreed
with me.  Then I shot my mouth off again, and the cycle continued.
And now it has become a major distraction to the List and it has
fostered division in the meteorite circles.  That was not my intent,
but it was clearly the result of my words and I should have foresaw
that.

To Michael Johnson - I used the same poor judgement that I accused you
of - by posting my frustrations to the List.  I should have known it
would stir the pot and fan the flames.  I honestly don't believe you
"trolled" the List with your posting.  It's not a photo I would have
selected to post, but that doesn't mean you exercised poor judgement,
just because I didn't agree with it.

To the pro-gun people - I am one of you.  I grew up with guns in a
good ole boy family of Arkansas, Mississippi, and Missouri cotton
farmers.  I strongly believe in the 2nd amendment of the US
Constitution.  I used to collect guns and I have owned more than I can
count.  I currently own two - a sidearm and a shotgun.  For a while I
reloaded my own ammo.  I also strongly believe that guns should be
treated with the utmost respect and that gun owners should be more
considerate of others who are wary of what guns represent to them.
Some people are terrified of guns.  Some people have had negative
experiences with them.  Some people come from cultures where guns are
viewed in a very different light.  As a gun owner, I would never
display, carry or brandish my firearm in front of mixed company or
strangers.  As a cigar smoker, I take my cigar outside to enjoy a
smoke, because I respect the rights of others not to suffer my toxic
smoke.  I pick up or dispose of the ashes and the butt.  It's not a
matter of being pro-gun, pro-tobacco, or anti-gun, anti-tobacco - it's
a matter of awareness and consideration for other people - people who
may be good decent nice persons, but happen to disagree with me
politicially or socially.  This is a global meteorite List with
members from a wide range of cultures, all brought together by a
common love of space rocks.  It is entirely predictable that anything
that is vaguely political or controversial is surely going to offend
someone in a global forum.  It doesn't mean we should be bland,
vanilla and "PC", it means we should use our opportunities to joke
around carefully.  In a perfect world, it wouldn't be that way.  But,
on any unmoderated internet list/forum, one must be extra careful in
order to maintain decorum.  I don't know Michael Johnson personally,
but I know enough that I was surprised by his selection of the photo,
because I knew "brown-chondrite" was going to hit the fan because of
it.

We all (those on all sides of the political spectrum) just want to
raise good kids in a good and decent world and have the freedom to
make our own decisions and choose our paths in life.  We all agree on
that.  But to many people, guns are a symbol that represent those
things being torn away.  And to many others, guns represent the
primary defense against those things being torn away.   As long as we
are in mixed company (which is exactly what this List is), then we
should exercise a bit of "PC", just to be on the safe side and prevent
flareups like this.  This necessity is a part of the global culture
that the internet is, and it should be a default consideration given
to others.

I failed to exercise that consideration and I reacted negatively,
which injected negativity into the situation and made matters worse.
I have my beliefs that are strong and have nothing to do with
meteorites - I should keep those in private and off the List.

I love meteorites - more than rationally so.  I don't want to
contribute negativity to meteorites in any way.  So I regret that and
apologize for it.  I have done this in the past.  I hope not to do it
again in the future.

So there you have it - my apology and concession rant.  I hope it is
more positive in effect that my previous two posts.  And I hope the
next posts are about meteorites.

Best regards and happy huntings,

MikeG







On 2/4/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey meteoritekid, may I suggest that you "unplug" for a while, go
> outside, and get some real world experience, perhaps then you can base
> your arguments off something more substantial than than charts,
> graphs, and statistics put together by some professor in a office
> somewhere that you have never met. You said "the redneck crap" "is a
> culture that people tend to view negatively", glad to know how you
> feel about my culture and that you view people like me as second rate
> citizens, that is not very tolerant for such a leftist. You must live
> in a scary world.
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Mike, Robert, All,
>>
>>> Mike G. I would like to point out that Michael Johnson has has made a
>>> huge impact on this community, he tries his best to represent people
>>> that are from all walks of life in the meteorite world, for you to
>>> target him as using "poor judgement" is insulting, that is just YOUR
>>> opinion, not fact as stated by you.
>>
>> And he's fully entitled to that opinion.  And sometimes people who are
>> in positions of power and who have done good things make mistakes.  It
>> happens.  Happened.
>>
>>> I am not your "son" and please
>>> correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall seeing you at any state
>>> shoots, ranges, or having read your scores, or article's in any
>>> firearms publications. Are you a gunsmith? Did you ever shoot
>>> professionally? Do you have a piece of paper on the wall that says you
>>> know what you are talking about?
>>
>> It doesn't take firing a gun, making a gun, or being trained to use a
>> gun to know more about statistics and what they say about
>> gun ownership.  That's like saying a pyro should be well-versed in
>> fire safety and know that starting fires is dangerous, and probably
>> shouldn't be done.
>>
>>> You say that it is  incorrect to
>>> state that "it is people, not guns that kill" Show me one case of a
>>> firearm autonomously 'jumping up and killing someone'. A person is
>>> involved 100% percent of the time.
>>
>> And a gun is involved in 100% of firearm deaths.  And there are a lot
>> of those.
>>
>>> toting around grandpa's squirrel
>>> gun, and telling stories at your local bar does not mean you know
>>> it all, but it is a good indicator of your mindset. Robert.
>>
>> Sorry, I'm late for the lesbian tree-hugger benefit.  Gotta get there
>> before the sun goes down.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
>>> <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Robert and List,
>>>>
>>>> Ok everyone, this is getting tiresome.
>>>>
>>>> We are all overlooking the obvious - it was poor judgement on Michael
>>>> Johnson's part to post that photo.  Period.  Regardless of one's views
>>>> on guns, this List is global and that photo was bound to stir up
>>>> trouble - it doesn't take a psychic or mind reader to know that.
>>>> Posting that photo was essentially a troll - perhaps not intentional,
>>>> but the effect was the same.
>>>>
>>>> It should be common sense not to post controversial material on a public
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>> You say you are a "expert in the gun field" - Listen son, I was toting
>>>> around guns before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye.  There is
>>>> nothing you can tell me about guns that I don't already know and I
>>>> have forgotten more about guns than you will ever hope to know.  So go
>>>> take your passionate "it's people not guns that kill" defense and call
>>>> it in to your favorite right-wing AM-radio talk show - I'm sure you'll
>>>> have a eager audience of Rush Limbaugh fans to agree with you.
>>>>
>>>> This is not a matter of pushing delete when you see something you
>>>> don't like - it's called "ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY" - not
>>>> "POINTING GUNS AT METEORITE PEOPLE PICTURE OF THE DAY".  Can you not
>>>> see that the photo could have been completely unexpected to many and
>>>> they were caught off-guard by it?
>>>>
>>>> It was fine to stage to photo, it was perfectly good to have fun, it
>>>> was fine to share the photo with friends.  It was poor judgement to
>>>> post that photo to the Meteorite List.
>>>>
>>>> Now excuse me, I have to go host a benefit for retired lesbian tree
>>>> huggers at my solar-energy-powered gay bar.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards and happy hunting,
>>>>
>>>> MikeG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/3/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>>>>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>>>>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>>>>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>>>>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>>>>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>>>>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>>>>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>>>>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>>>>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>>>>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>>>>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>>>>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>>>>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>>>>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>>>>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>>>>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>>>>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>>>>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>>>>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>>>>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>>>>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>>>>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>>>>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>>>>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>>>>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>>>>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>>>>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Mike Gilmer
>>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From darryl at dof3.com  Thu Feb  4 21:44:02 2010
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:44:02 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002041812x75189d6cqe8b1654b3a44cbc6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<e51421551002040631i78fb98acg5196995fa8adda80@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ddd37461002040953k2be95d1pc6998d13ef731fb4@mail.gmail.com>
	<93aaac891002041344ge1b243bxfae684f7ce12a57f@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ddd37461002041655rb9a9746ve52b34207b18d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<e51421551002041812x75189d6cqe8b1654b3a44cbc6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <580845AC-197F-42EE-BCCC-07A26EA79348@dof3.com>



wow....

mike, yours was as candid an expression of contrition as i have ever  
read.

in the unlikely event anyone who does not accept your mea culpa, no  
worries---they are not half the person you are.

deeply touching....understanding of how frustration can morph to  
aggression....profoundly wishing you and your wife the very best,

darryl


hoping yours is the final word in these days of crossfire.



On Feb 4, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> This is my last post on this subject - I promise.
>
> This train wreck of negativity over the gun photo has gone too far.  I
> played a role in that, and for that I apologize.
>
> There are deep divisions in this country that have been encouraged by
> those who will profit from keeping the populace divided.  This country
> is the most polarized that I have ever seen, and people who would
> normally get along fine are at each other's throats at the drop of a
> dime.  That is what is fueling a sizeable portion of the hostility
> going on right now, it's not just the guns.  The gun provided a spark
> that lit the pool of gasoline that was already there.  I posted some
> things that I should not have.  I have strong beliefs and those burst
> forth in a couple of frustrated posts that were directed more at an
> idea than a person or a gun.
>
> Robert Ward, I apologize for calling you "son" and speaking in a
> condescending fashion.  I don't know you and I was lashing out at
> something you represent (in my mind) and not you.   I grew up in the
> deep south, surrounded by "rednecks".  My father was a redneck.  I
> know that calling another man "son" is like a challenge to one's
> manhood and it is condescending.   I respect your contributions to
> meteoritics and I respect your meteorite hunting skills.  You are a
> very underrated hunter and a fair dealer.  I bought a Brenham thin
> slice from you a while back on eBay and it is still one of my favorite
> pieces.  I have no beef with you personally, unless this episode
> created one, which would be regrettable.
>
> For those who may care, here is why I lashed out - my wife is very
> sick with chronic health conditions.  I will not go into all of the
> long details, but believe me when I say it has been the most difficult
> period of our lives.  I almost lost her and sitting in ICU watching
> your soulmate fight for life will make a man do some long and hard
> thinking.  We don't have health insurance and cannot afford health
> insurance because her condition is pre-existing and no insurance
> company will touch her with a 10-foot pole, or if they will, the
> premiums are so astronomical that they are impossible.  We have never
> taken a dime in public assistance and the reason we had no insurance
> when her condition arose, is because we both quit full-time management
> jobs (and good insurance) to be caregivers for her elderly father who
> has Alzheimers - something we did out of love to keep him from going
> into a nursing home.   (a fate that a highly-decorated WWII veteran
> does not deserve)  So we lost our insurance while we were doing the
> right thing - and then my wife got sick.  Where is this going?  All of
> the people who are erecting roadblocks to my wife getting affordable
> insurance (and thus access to decent healthcare that isn't an
> emergency room last resort) are people from the
> right/conservative/republican side of the political and social
> spectrum.  So, I am developing a big chip on my shoulder towards the
> political right because they are, in essence, prolonging my wife's
> suffering by preventing meaningful healthcare reform.  And all of the
> arguments against it center around money - which doesn't mean a darn
> thing to me if I lose my wife and soulmate.  All of the money in the
> world won't bring her back if she dies for lack of medical care.
> There are other layers to this situation, but I think this explains
> the bulk of my frustration.  If you are blessed with good health and
> your loved ones are blessed with good health - then wake up each day
> be thankful for it - because it is truly a blessing and it can
> suddenly be revoked without warning or reason.  This is truly the most
> difficult part of my life and my wife's life and it is very
> frustrating to be denied medical  care because we lack money and
> insurance - and we fall between the cracks in the system.   It is a
> nightmare that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
>
> So, when I see/hear/read people from the right-side of the political
> spectrum, a surge of hostility, resentment, and frustration wells up
> in me. (which is not a good thing, I know).  After I shot my mouth
> off, I got a flood replies (some public, some private) and I latched
> onto your's because it was the first one I clicked on that disagreed
> with me.  Then I shot my mouth off again, and the cycle continued.
> And now it has become a major distraction to the List and it has
> fostered division in the meteorite circles.  That was not my intent,
> but it was clearly the result of my words and I should have foresaw
> that.
>
> To Michael Johnson - I used the same poor judgement that I accused you
> of - by posting my frustrations to the List.  I should have known it
> would stir the pot and fan the flames.  I honestly don't believe you
> "trolled" the List with your posting.  It's not a photo I would have
> selected to post, but that doesn't mean you exercised poor judgement,
> just because I didn't agree with it.
>
> To the pro-gun people - I am one of you.  I grew up with guns in a
> good ole boy family of Arkansas, Mississippi, and Missouri cotton
> farmers.  I strongly believe in the 2nd amendment of the US
> Constitution.  I used to collect guns and I have owned more than I can
> count.  I currently own two - a sidearm and a shotgun.  For a while I
> reloaded my own ammo.  I also strongly believe that guns should be
> treated with the utmost respect and that gun owners should be more
> considerate of others who are wary of what guns represent to them.
> Some people are terrified of guns.  Some people have had negative
> experiences with them.  Some people come from cultures where guns are
> viewed in a very different light.  As a gun owner, I would never
> display, carry or brandish my firearm in front of mixed company or
> strangers.  As a cigar smoker, I take my cigar outside to enjoy a
> smoke, because I respect the rights of others not to suffer my toxic
> smoke.  I pick up or dispose of the ashes and the butt.  It's not a
> matter of being pro-gun, pro-tobacco, or anti-gun, anti-tobacco - it's
> a matter of awareness and consideration for other people - people who
> may be good decent nice persons, but happen to disagree with me
> politicially or socially.  This is a global meteorite List with
> members from a wide range of cultures, all brought together by a
> common love of space rocks.  It is entirely predictable that anything
> that is vaguely political or controversial is surely going to offend
> someone in a global forum.  It doesn't mean we should be bland,
> vanilla and "PC", it means we should use our opportunities to joke
> around carefully.  In a perfect world, it wouldn't be that way.  But,
> on any unmoderated internet list/forum, one must be extra careful in
> order to maintain decorum.  I don't know Michael Johnson personally,
> but I know enough that I was surprised by his selection of the photo,
> because I knew "brown-chondrite" was going to hit the fan because of
> it.
>
> We all (those on all sides of the political spectrum) just want to
> raise good kids in a good and decent world and have the freedom to
> make our own decisions and choose our paths in life.  We all agree on
> that.  But to many people, guns are a symbol that represent those
> things being torn away.  And to many others, guns represent the
> primary defense against those things being torn away.   As long as we
> are in mixed company (which is exactly what this List is), then we
> should exercise a bit of "PC", just to be on the safe side and prevent
> flareups like this.  This necessity is a part of the global culture
> that the internet is, and it should be a default consideration given
> to others.
>
> I failed to exercise that consideration and I reacted negatively,
> which injected negativity into the situation and made matters worse.
> I have my beliefs that are strong and have nothing to do with
> meteorites - I should keep those in private and off the List.
>
> I love meteorites - more than rationally so.  I don't want to
> contribute negativity to meteorites in any way.  So I regret that and
> apologize for it.  I have done this in the past.  I hope not to do it
> again in the future.
>
> So there you have it - my apology and concession rant.  I hope it is
> more positive in effect that my previous two posts.  And I hope the
> next posts are about meteorites.
>
> Best regards and happy huntings,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/4/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey meteoritekid, may I suggest that you "unplug" for a while, go
>> outside, and get some real world experience, perhaps then you can  
>> base
>> your arguments off something more substantial than than charts,
>> graphs, and statistics put together by some professor in a office
>> somewhere that you have never met. You said "the redneck crap" "is a
>> culture that people tend to view negatively", glad to know how you
>> feel about my culture and that you view people like me as second rate
>> citizens, that is not very tolerant for such a leftist. You must live
>> in a scary world.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>> Hello Mike, Robert, All,
>>>
>>>> Mike G. I would like to point out that Michael Johnson has has  
>>>> made a
>>>> huge impact on this community, he tries his best to represent  
>>>> people
>>>> that are from all walks of life in the meteorite world, for you to
>>>> target him as using "poor judgement" is insulting, that is just  
>>>> YOUR
>>>> opinion, not fact as stated by you.
>>>
>>> And he's fully entitled to that opinion.  And sometimes people who  
>>> are
>>> in positions of power and who have done good things make  
>>> mistakes.  It
>>> happens.  Happened.
>>>
>>>> I am not your "son" and please
>>>> correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall seeing you at any  
>>>> state
>>>> shoots, ranges, or having read your scores, or article's in any
>>>> firearms publications. Are you a gunsmith? Did you ever shoot
>>>> professionally? Do you have a piece of paper on the wall that  
>>>> says you
>>>> know what you are talking about?
>>>
>>> It doesn't take firing a gun, making a gun, or being trained to  
>>> use a
>>> gun to know more about statistics and what they say about
>>> gun ownership.  That's like saying a pyro should be well-versed in
>>> fire safety and know that starting fires is dangerous, and probably
>>> shouldn't be done.
>>>
>>>> You say that it is  incorrect to
>>>> state that "it is people, not guns that kill" Show me one case of a
>>>> firearm autonomously 'jumping up and killing someone'. A person is
>>>> involved 100% percent of the time.
>>>
>>> And a gun is involved in 100% of firearm deaths.  And there are a  
>>> lot
>>> of those.
>>>
>>>> toting around grandpa's squirrel
>>>> gun, and telling stories at your local bar does not mean you know
>>>> it all, but it is a good indicator of your mindset. Robert.
>>>
>>> Sorry, I'm late for the lesbian tree-hugger benefit.  Gotta get  
>>> there
>>> before the sun goes down.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
>>>> <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Robert and List,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok everyone, this is getting tiresome.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are all overlooking the obvious - it was poor judgement on  
>>>>> Michael
>>>>> Johnson's part to post that photo.  Period.  Regardless of one's  
>>>>> views
>>>>> on guns, this List is global and that photo was bound to stir up
>>>>> trouble - it doesn't take a psychic or mind reader to know that.
>>>>> Posting that photo was essentially a troll - perhaps not  
>>>>> intentional,
>>>>> but the effect was the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> It should be common sense not to post controversial material on  
>>>>> a public
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> You say you are a "expert in the gun field" - Listen son, I was  
>>>>> toting
>>>>> around guns before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye.   
>>>>> There is
>>>>> nothing you can tell me about guns that I don't already know and I
>>>>> have forgotten more about guns than you will ever hope to know.   
>>>>> So go
>>>>> take your passionate "it's people not guns that kill" defense  
>>>>> and call
>>>>> it in to your favorite right-wing AM-radio talk show - I'm sure  
>>>>> you'll
>>>>> have a eager audience of Rush Limbaugh fans to agree with you.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not a matter of pushing delete when you see something you
>>>>> don't like - it's called "ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY" -  
>>>>> not
>>>>> "POINTING GUNS AT METEORITE PEOPLE PICTURE OF THE DAY".  Can you  
>>>>> not
>>>>> see that the photo could have been completely unexpected to many  
>>>>> and
>>>>> they were caught off-guard by it?
>>>>>
>>>>> It was fine to stage to photo, it was perfectly good to have  
>>>>> fun, it
>>>>> was fine to share the photo with friends.  It was poor judgement  
>>>>> to
>>>>> post that photo to the Meteorite List.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now excuse me, I have to go host a benefit for retired lesbian  
>>>>> tree
>>>>> huggers at my solar-energy-powered gay bar.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards and happy hunting,
>>>>>
>>>>> MikeG
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/3/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution  
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even  
>>>>>> designing
>>>>>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the  
>>>>>> field,
>>>>>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault  
>>>>>> rifles"
>>>>>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and  
>>>>>> plastic,
>>>>>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I  
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if  
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our  
>>>>>> European
>>>>>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my  
>>>>>> summers
>>>>>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to  
>>>>>> morbid to
>>>>>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of  
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends  
>>>>>> you push
>>>>>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>>>>>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002,  
>>>>>> another
>>>>>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda,  
>>>>>> 800,000
>>>>>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some  
>>>>>> sharp
>>>>>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>>>>>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>>>>>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am  
>>>>>> someone
>>>>>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category,  
>>>>>> Peter, I
>>>>>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage  
>>>>>> growing
>>>>>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I  
>>>>>> trust
>>>>>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not  
>>>>>> subscribe to
>>>>>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend  
>>>>>> movies with
>>>>>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend  
>>>>>> this much
>>>>>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I  
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so  
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Mike Gilmer
>>>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 22:01:53 2010
From: ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com (Robert Ward)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 20:01:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list -
	the end.
Message-ID: <5ddd37461002041901v3b519ff8xc2fb2a056d39c283@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Mike, List, I am very sorry to here about your wife, and
understand that such a burden can affect one's actions, I have been
there before. I accept your apology, and hope that things start
looking up for both you, and your wife. To the rest of the people on
the list, sorry to burden your ears with this thread, and Jason, I am
cool with you too. Robert.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
<meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> This is my last post on this subject - I promise.
>
> This train wreck of negativity over the gun photo has gone too far. ?I
> played a role in that, and for that I apologize.
>
> There are deep divisions in this country that have been encouraged by
> those who will profit from keeping the populace divided. ?This country
> is the most polarized that I have ever seen, and people who would
> normally get along fine are at each other's throats at the drop of a
> dime. ?That is what is fueling a sizeable portion of the hostility
> going on right now, it's not just the guns. ?The gun provided a spark
> that lit the pool of gasoline that was already there. ?I posted some
> things that I should not have. ?I have strong beliefs and those burst
> forth in a couple of frustrated posts that were directed more at an
> idea than a person or a gun.
>
> Robert Ward, I apologize for calling you "son" and speaking in a
> condescending fashion. ?I don't know you and I was lashing out at
> something you represent (in my mind) and not you. ? I grew up in the
> deep south, surrounded by "rednecks". ?My father was a redneck. ?I
> know that calling another man "son" is like a challenge to one's
> manhood and it is condescending. ? I respect your contributions to
> meteoritics and I respect your meteorite hunting skills. ?You are a
> very underrated hunter and a fair dealer. ?I bought a Brenham thin
> slice from you a while back on eBay and it is still one of my favorite
> pieces. ?I have no beef with you personally, unless this episode
> created one, which would be regrettable.
>
> For those who may care, here is why I lashed out - my wife is very
> sick with chronic health conditions. ?I will not go into all of the
> long details, but believe me when I say it has been the most difficult
> period of our lives. ?I almost lost her and sitting in ICU watching
> your soulmate fight for life will make a man do some long and hard
> thinking. ?We don't have health insurance and cannot afford health
> insurance because her condition is pre-existing and no insurance
> company will touch her with a 10-foot pole, or if they will, the
> premiums are so astronomical that they are impossible. ?We have never
> taken a dime in public assistance and the reason we had no insurance
> when her condition arose, is because we both quit full-time management
> jobs (and good insurance) to be caregivers for her elderly father who
> has Alzheimers - something we did out of love to keep him from going
> into a nursing home. ? (a fate that a highly-decorated WWII veteran
> does not deserve) ?So we lost our insurance while we were doing the
> right thing - and then my wife got sick. ?Where is this going? ?All of
> the people who are erecting roadblocks to my wife getting affordable
> insurance (and thus access to decent healthcare that isn't an
> emergency room last resort) are people from the
> right/conservative/republican side of the political and social
> spectrum. ?So, I am developing a big chip on my shoulder towards the
> political right because they are, in essence, prolonging my wife's
> suffering by preventing meaningful healthcare reform. ?And all of the
> arguments against it center around money - which doesn't mean a darn
> thing to me if I lose my wife and soulmate. ?All of the money in the
> world won't bring her back if she dies for lack of medical care.
> There are other layers to this situation, but I think this explains
> the bulk of my frustration. ?If you are blessed with good health and
> your loved ones are blessed with good health - then wake up each day
> be thankful for it - because it is truly a blessing and it can
> suddenly be revoked without warning or reason. ?This is truly the most
> difficult part of my life and my wife's life and it is very
> frustrating to be denied medical ?care because we lack money and
> insurance - and we fall between the cracks in the system. ? It is a
> nightmare that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
>
> So, when I see/hear/read people from the right-side of the political
> spectrum, a surge of hostility, resentment, and frustration wells up
> in me. (which is not a good thing, I know). ?After I shot my mouth
> off, I got a flood replies (some public, some private) and I latched
> onto your's because it was the first one I clicked on that disagreed
> with me. ?Then I shot my mouth off again, and the cycle continued.
> And now it has become a major distraction to the List and it has
> fostered division in the meteorite circles. ?That was not my intent,
> but it was clearly the result of my words and I should have foresaw
> that.
>
> To Michael Johnson - I used the same poor judgement that I accused you
> of - by posting my frustrations to the List. ?I should have known it
> would stir the pot and fan the flames. ?I honestly don't believe you
> "trolled" the List with your posting. ?It's not a photo I would have
> selected to post, but that doesn't mean you exercised poor judgement,
> just because I didn't agree with it.
>
> To the pro-gun people - I am one of you. ?I grew up with guns in a
> good ole boy family of Arkansas, Mississippi, and Missouri cotton
> farmers. ?I strongly believe in the 2nd amendment of the US
> Constitution. ?I used to collect guns and I have owned more than I can
> count. ?I currently own two - a sidearm and a shotgun. ?For a while I
> reloaded my own ammo. ?I also strongly believe that guns should be
> treated with the utmost respect and that gun owners should be more
> considerate of others who are wary of what guns represent to them.
> Some people are terrified of guns. ?Some people have had negative
> experiences with them. ?Some people come from cultures where guns are
> viewed in a very different light. ?As a gun owner, I would never
> display, carry or brandish my firearm in front of mixed company or
> strangers. ?As a cigar smoker, I take my cigar outside to enjoy a
> smoke, because I respect the rights of others not to suffer my toxic
> smoke. ?I pick up or dispose of the ashes and the butt. ?It's not a
> matter of being pro-gun, pro-tobacco, or anti-gun, anti-tobacco - it's
> a matter of awareness and consideration for other people - people who
> may be good decent nice persons, but happen to disagree with me
> politicially or socially. ?This is a global meteorite List with
> members from a wide range of cultures, all brought together by a
> common love of space rocks. ?It is entirely predictable that anything
> that is vaguely political or controversial is surely going to offend
> someone in a global forum. ?It doesn't mean we should be bland,
> vanilla and "PC", it means we should use our opportunities to joke
> around carefully. ?In a perfect world, it wouldn't be that way. ?But,
> on any unmoderated internet list/forum, one must be extra careful in
> order to maintain decorum. ?I don't know Michael Johnson personally,
> but I know enough that I was surprised by his selection of the photo,
> because I knew "brown-chondrite" was going to hit the fan because of
> it.
>
> We all (those on all sides of the political spectrum) just want to
> raise good kids in a good and decent world and have the freedom to
> make our own decisions and choose our paths in life. ?We all agree on
> that. ?But to many people, guns are a symbol that represent those
> things being torn away. ?And to many others, guns represent the
> primary defense against those things being torn away. ? As long as we
> are in mixed company (which is exactly what this List is), then we
> should exercise a bit of "PC", just to be on the safe side and prevent
> flareups like this. ?This necessity is a part of the global culture
> that the internet is, and it should be a default consideration given
> to others.
>
> I failed to exercise that consideration and I reacted negatively,
> which injected negativity into the situation and made matters worse.
> I have my beliefs that are strong and have nothing to do with
> meteorites - I should keep those in private and off the List.
>
> I love meteorites - more than rationally so. ?I don't want to
> contribute negativity to meteorites in any way. ?So I regret that and
> apologize for it. ?I have done this in the past. ?I hope not to do it
> again in the future.
>
> So there you have it - my apology and concession rant. ?I hope it is
> more positive in effect that my previous two posts. ?And I hope the
> next posts are about meteorites.
>
> Best regards and happy huntings,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/4/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey meteoritekid, may I suggest that you "unplug" for a while, go
>> outside, and get some real world experience, perhaps then you can base
>> your arguments off something more substantial than than charts,
>> graphs, and statistics put together by some professor in a office
>> somewhere that you have never met. You said "the redneck crap" "is a
>> culture that people tend to view negatively", glad to know how you
>> feel about my culture and that you view people like me as second rate
>> citizens, that is not very tolerant for such a leftist. You must live
>> in a scary world.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Mike, Robert, All,
>>>
>>>> Mike G. I would like to point out that Michael Johnson has has made a
>>>> huge impact on this community, he tries his best to represent people
>>>> that are from all walks of life in the meteorite world, for you to
>>>> target him as using "poor judgement" is insulting, that is just YOUR
>>>> opinion, not fact as stated by you.
>>>
>>> And he's fully entitled to that opinion. ?And sometimes people who are
>>> in positions of power and who have done good things make mistakes. ?It
>>> happens. ?Happened.
>>>
>>>> I am not your "son" and please
>>>> correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall seeing you at any state
>>>> shoots, ranges, or having read your scores, or article's in any
>>>> firearms publications. Are you a gunsmith? Did you ever shoot
>>>> professionally? Do you have a piece of paper on the wall that says you
>>>> know what you are talking about?
>>>
>>> It doesn't take firing a gun, making a gun, or being trained to use a
>>> gun to know more about statistics and what they say about
>>> gun ownership. ?That's like saying a pyro should be well-versed in
>>> fire safety and know that starting fires is dangerous, and probably
>>> shouldn't be done.
>>>
>>>> You say that it is ?incorrect to
>>>> state that "it is people, not guns that kill" Show me one case of a
>>>> firearm autonomously 'jumping up and killing someone'. A person is
>>>> involved 100% percent of the time.
>>>
>>> And a gun is involved in 100% of firearm deaths. ?And there are a lot
>>> of those.
>>>
>>>> toting around grandpa's squirrel
>>>> gun, and telling stories at your local bar does not mean you know
>>>> it all, but it is a good indicator of your mindset. Robert.
>>>
>>> Sorry, I'm late for the lesbian tree-hugger benefit. ?Gotta get there
>>> before the sun goes down.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
>>>> <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Robert and List,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok everyone, this is getting tiresome.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are all overlooking the obvious - it was poor judgement on Michael
>>>>> Johnson's part to post that photo. ?Period. ?Regardless of one's views
>>>>> on guns, this List is global and that photo was bound to stir up
>>>>> trouble - it doesn't take a psychic or mind reader to know that.
>>>>> Posting that photo was essentially a troll - perhaps not intentional,
>>>>> but the effect was the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> It should be common sense not to post controversial material on a public
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> You say you are a "expert in the gun field" - Listen son, I was toting
>>>>> around guns before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye. ?There is
>>>>> nothing you can tell me about guns that I don't already know and I
>>>>> have forgotten more about guns than you will ever hope to know. ?So go
>>>>> take your passionate "it's people not guns that kill" defense and call
>>>>> it in to your favorite right-wing AM-radio talk show - I'm sure you'll
>>>>> have a eager audience of Rush Limbaugh fans to agree with you.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not a matter of pushing delete when you see something you
>>>>> don't like - it's called "ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY" - not
>>>>> "POINTING GUNS AT METEORITE PEOPLE PICTURE OF THE DAY". ?Can you not
>>>>> see that the photo could have been completely unexpected to many and
>>>>> they were caught off-guard by it?
>>>>>
>>>>> It was fine to stage to photo, it was perfectly good to have fun, it
>>>>> was fine to share the photo with friends. ?It was poor judgement to
>>>>> post that photo to the Meteorite List.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now excuse me, I have to go host a benefit for retired lesbian tree
>>>>> huggers at my solar-energy-powered gay bar.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards and happy hunting,
>>>>>
>>>>> MikeG
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/3/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>>>>>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>>>>>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>>>>>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>>>>>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>>>>>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>>>>>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>>>>>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>>>>>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>>>>>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>>>>>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>>>>>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>>>>>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>>>>>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>>>>>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>>>>>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>>>>>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>>>>>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>>>>>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>>>>>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>>>>>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>>>>>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>>>>>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>>>>>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>>>>>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>>>>>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>>>>>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>>>>>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Mike Gilmer
>>>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>


From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net  Thu Feb  4 22:05:15 2010
From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 20:05:15 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Talk about meteorites
Message-ID: <AFE4DFB9D20B4096A0D646F8903B29C7@DFZN8X81>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
To: <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:29 PM
Subject: Talk about meteorites


Again, no posts to the List ... last night it worked and now nothing comes 
through :-((

Please, forward that for me. Thank you, Twink!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Eric just wrote:

"A new meteorite fall in Ireland may have just happened!"

Tonight (our time) MarkV, a member of the German "Meteorite Forum" informed
the German "Meteorite List" of a bright bolide that was sighted and 
photographed
over Southern Germany (Baden-W?rrtemberg) last night at 03:04 CET.

Mark's preliminary computations and triangulations point toward a N-S flight 
path
of the bolide and also indicate a rather steep entry angle of about 65?. 
Mark also
has pictures taken with his video camera.

MarkV and Thomas Grau (APE) are looking into this and calling upon 
eyewitnesses
to get into contact with them asap!

Best wishes,

Bernd



From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Thu Feb  4 22:31:42 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 20:31:42 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
	rock'
In-Reply-To: <20100204164444.CNR73.310483.imail@fed1rmwml43>
Message-ID: <20100205033144.B13D710533@mailwash5.pair.com>

Hi Carl,

> I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed.
> land. The fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found
> on Fed. land all went to the smithsonian.

If you don't want the Fed Gov to get the treasures that are found on Fed
land, who should get them?  Even you said that the treasures "belong to all
of us", but if you find something and take it home (and either keep it or
sell it), the rest of us don't get to share in the ownership or joy of what
you found. So then that is not fair because it should belong to all of us,
right?  So, the Gov puts the treasure in a museum so all of us can see it.
All of the people now have a partial ownership/interest in it, not just one
or two people.

BTW, I don't work for the Gov. and didn't get paid by anyone to say
anything.  :-)  This is just what I think this law is trying to do.  I could
be wrong.

Regards, 

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
cdtucson at cox.net
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:45 PM
To: Adam; George Blahun Jr
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
rock'

George. 
Just one moment here. What if the rightful owner of the glasses never claims

them? you have no idea who left them. Could have been a visitor asking for 
directions. Who owns them? The landlord??? Nobody is not the right answer
here. 
Also, Nobody wants your tree but the key is that it is yours! 
What if you are leasing the tree in a business that sells the fruit? Who is 
responsible then? The owner of the tree or you because you are in legal
control 
of it. Just asking. 
In the case of the contractor. Well, he did discover the treasure inside the

wall. What most would have done is haul it off into the truck as he was 
contracted to do and never mention it ( haul away the debris) . What he did
do 
is tell the home owner and she wanted all of it. This case ended in all of
her 
relatives learning of it and the sum was divided many ways between all of
them. 
She got greedy and lost more than she gained . I love this case because
greed 
did not prevail. Her greed cost her mucho dineros . As a side note the 
contractor did the right thing but it came down to. "No good deed goes 
unpunished". As much as I hate to say that. 
 I was an Architect/contractor and I know most of my subs would have simply 
hauled away the envelope with the rest of the debris, medicine cabinet and
all. 
Plus she was lucky the envelope had her relatives name on it because it
might 
have belonged to a previous home owner. all of this played out in court.
which 
is why I want to see this in court. 
I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed. land.
The 
fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found on Fed. land all
went 
to the smithsonian. That is why the strewn field looks so bottom heavy. Take

care and thank you.. Carl 
-- 
Carl or Debbie Esparza 
Meteoritemax 
 
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- George Blahun Jr <ks1u at att.net> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> Carl:
>     Hello and thanks for your comments and point of view.  I actually
didn't intend for this to be taken as cut and  dry.  I do come down on the
side of the land owners, but my reference to the EM Spectrum implies that
there is always another point of view.  If you were unfortunate enough to be
hit by a meteorite on someone else's property, I believe you'd be entitled
to damages for your injury and pain and suffering.   If you were walking on
my property here in CT and one of my black walnut trees fell on you, you
could (and should) file a claim against my home owners policy, but I don't
think you'd get to keep the black walnut tree which is probably  worth about
10K for the wood.  
>      In your example of the dollar bill, a fairly insignificant amount if
you can afford to see a doctor, the dollar probably goes to the finder.  But
if you drop your Maui Jim sunglasses there, you still have the right to them
and neither the finder nor the doctor nor the landlord owns them.  Of course
most communities have a procedure for claiming a lost and found, unlike a
space rock.  This series of events changes if the object which hits you is
from a military satellite.   They'd deny any responsibility but want it back
anyhow. 
> 
>     There was a court case recently where a contractor was removing a wall
in a house and found a bunch of money which had been hidden in there for
decades.  The contractor tried to claim it using the old legal defense of
"finders keepers losers weepers"  but the courts said, no.  
>     I guess we all have a slight bias when interpreting the law and what
constitutes ownership.  This no doubt determines which side of this issue we
each come down on.
> 
> George
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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00:35:00



From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Thu Feb  4 23:13:51 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:13:51 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
	rock'
In-Reply-To: <A0F7116A-C074-4FE1-995C-B28BF2B69039@att.net>
Message-ID: <20100205041353.B7D6B105CA@mailwash5.pair.com>

Hi George,

> If you were unfortunate enough to be hit by a meteorite on someone
> else's property, I believe you'd be entitled to damages for your
> injury and pain and suffering. If you were walking on my property
> here in CT and one of my black walnut trees fell on you, you could
> (and should) file a claim against my home owners policy,

I don't know if that is correct.  I'm not a lawyer, but I know that the laws
are different for natural causes vs negligence.  If your walnut tree lands
on someone, then he can sue you because you neglected to take care of the
tree so it wouldn't fall and hurt someone.  It's on your land, so you own
that tree.  So you have to take the necessary steps to the best of your
ability to prevent it from hurting anyone on your property.

On the other hand, we cannot prevent people from being hit by meteorites (or
lightning, hail, etc) when they are on someone's property.  If I am walking
across someone's yard during a storm and I'm hit with hail or lightning, I
doubt that there is any court in the US that would rule in my favor if I try
to sue that home owner. The home owner could possibly sue me because I was
trespassing on his land.  Even if I was invited by him into his yard, an
injury from something natural coming from above is not his concern
(legally).

Think of it this way:  If I'm driving down the road and I crash because
lightning hits my car, can I sue the city or state or Fed gov?  (After all,
one of them owns the air above my car.)  Nope.

You can't sue (or at least WIN, because in the US you can sue anyone for
anything nowadays) for natural phenomena that is not humanly preventable.
There is the possibility if there are extenuating circumstances (e.g. maybe
if the highway department set up a metal pole next to the road that acted
like a lightning rod-type and it attracted the lightning as my car was
driving by), but in general, that will be rare.

So if a meteorite crashes through the roof of a building that is being
rented by a dentist and it hits a patient, neither the dentist nor his
landlord should be held liable.  One or both will most likely help pay, but
that would be because it's good publicity and "the right thing to do".  But
if an investigation shows that the roof was in bad condition or poorly made,
then the patient *might* have a case against the landlord.

It would be interesting to hear from a real lawyer about this.   :-)

Regards,

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of George
Blahun Jr
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:17 PM
To: Adam
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
rock'




Carl:
    Hello and thanks for your comments and point of view.  I actually didn't
intend for this to be taken as cut and  dry.  I do come down on the side of
the land owners, but my reference to the EM Spectrum implies that there is
always another point of view.  If you were unfortunate enough to be hit by a
meteorite on someone else's property, I believe you'd be entitled to damages
for your injury and pain and suffering.   If you were walking on my property
here in CT and one of my black walnut trees fell on you, you could (and
should) file a claim against my home owners policy, but I don't think you'd
get to keep the black walnut tree which is probably  worth about 10K for the
wood.  
     In your example of the dollar bill, a fairly insignificant amount if
you can afford to see a doctor, the dollar probably goes to the finder.  But
if you drop your Maui Jim sunglasses there, you still have the right to them
and neither the finder nor the doctor nor the landlord owns them.  Of course
most communities have a procedure for claiming a lost and found, unlike a
space rock.  This series of events changes if the object which hits you is
from a military satellite.   They'd deny any responsibility but want it back
anyhow. 

    There was a court case recently where a contractor was removing a wall
in a house and found a bunch of money which had been hidden in there for
decades.  The contractor tried to claim it using the old legal defense of
"finders keepers losers weepers"  but the courts said, no.  
    I guess we all have a slight bias when interpreting the law and what
constitutes ownership.  This no doubt determines which side of this issue we
each come down on.

George


______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 23:12:42 2010
From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (meteoritefinder at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 20:12:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Guns
Message-ID: <491686.1756.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Lots of chatter on this. Please forgive this semi -off topic post.

I am not making a "soap box triade " here. And for the record, I too grew up with guns as my  Dad was  a  big hunter ( but I never liked killing anything so I never was a hunter). I do however own a pistol and a rifle, for whatever that has to say.

About 2 years ago, my wife went to a local Firehouse Sandwich in a VERY "resectable" part of town at roughly 8:30 pm to get my 2 sons some late supper. The next thing I knew, my phone rang from that place. The voice on the phone said my wife was OK (thank God) but they had just been robbed by two armed "men".  My wife had been forced to get down on her knees  while a "man" held a gun to her head while the robbery was taking place. My life could have ended right there along with her's but thank God they did't pull the trigger! I have to say that after that, it entered my mind that I wished guns had NEVER been invented.
  
  
Sent from my iPhone


      


From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Thu Feb  4 23:20:28 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:20:28 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
In-Reply-To: <881269.26764.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100205042030.3E12B10537@mailwash5.pair.com>

I've never used Mineral Tack with meteorites, but it is very safe
(chemically) for all mineral specimens that I've used it on.  I've never
seen any staining or noticeable chemical changes in my specimens.  It is not
supposed to have any oils in it, but maybe there are a few different brands
and some are better than others.  I got mine from David Shannon Minerals in
Mesa, Arizona (I think).  David passed away a couple years ago, but his wife
and family were still in business a year ago.  Not sure about now.

Regards,

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Kowalski
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:33 AM
To: meteorite-list; Erik Fisler
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!

I'm sure this will be a touchy subject, just as it is in the greater mineral
collector and curator field, but "Mineral Tack" is widely suggested. White
apparently isn't widely available any longer but blue should be available in
office supply stores.

Here is one retailer selling what I am talking about.

http://tinyurl.com/yl6yo8c


Use it sparingly as a small ball behind the specimen, or on either end of a
small stick (toothpick) to support the specimen .

Alternatively if you don't want to have anything "tacky" touching your
specimens, use some crumpled up some Aluminium foil to support the specimen.

I'm assuming this is just for something like photography, so make sure
whatever you use is not visible from the camera.

If you are talking long term display, an acrylic or metal stand is
preferred.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 2/4/10, Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote:

> From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
> To: "meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 6:56 AM
> 
> What should I use to prop up stones?
> 
> [Erik]


      
______________________________________________
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http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Thu Feb  4 23:28:30 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:28:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
In-Reply-To: <20100205042030.3E12B10537@mailwash5.pair.com>
Message-ID: <20100205042832.BEC1110535@mailwash5.pair.com>

Hi all,

I found the Mineral Tack on their website.  I guess they call their business
Shannon and Son's Minerals now.  Here is a direct link to the stuff.

http://www.shannonsminerals.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=329&products_
id=30124

It's a silicone-based tack.  At first glance it looks blue, but that is the
packaging.  It is an off-white color (slightly grayish but more white than
gray).  I've used it for 10 years or so.

Regards,

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Loeffler
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:20 PM
To: 'meteorite-list'
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!

I've never used Mineral Tack with meteorites, but it is very safe
(chemically) for all mineral specimens that I've used it on.  I've never
seen any staining or noticeable chemical changes in my specimens.  It is not
supposed to have any oils in it, but maybe there are a few different brands
and some are better than others.  I got mine from David Shannon Minerals in
Mesa, Arizona (I think).  David passed away a couple years ago, but his wife
and family were still in business a year ago.  Not sure about now.

Regards,

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Kowalski
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:33 AM
To: meteorite-list; Erik Fisler
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!

I'm sure this will be a touchy subject, just as it is in the greater mineral
collector and curator field, but "Mineral Tack" is widely suggested. White
apparently isn't widely available any longer but blue should be available in
office supply stores.

Here is one retailer selling what I am talking about.

http://tinyurl.com/yl6yo8c


Use it sparingly as a small ball behind the specimen, or on either end of a
small stick (toothpick) to support the specimen .

Alternatively if you don't want to have anything "tacky" touching your
specimens, use some crumpled up some Aluminium foil to support the specimen.

I'm assuming this is just for something like photography, so make sure
whatever you use is not visible from the camera.

If you are talking long term display, an acrylic or metal stand is
preferred.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 2/4/10, Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote:

> From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
> To: "meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 6:56 AM
> 
> What should I use to prop up stones?
> 
> [Erik]


      
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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00:35:00

______________________________________________
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From ks1u at att.net  Thu Feb  4 23:29:19 2010
From: ks1u at att.net (George Blahun Jr)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:29:19 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
	rock'
In-Reply-To: <20100205041353.B7D6B105CA@mailwash5.pair.com>
References: <20100205041353.B7D6B105CA@mailwash5.pair.com>
Message-ID: <3E3D3204-50DA-4AAC-B338-8D04EA9BAA2A@att.net>

Bob:
      You make a good point, but I think liability laws, which vary state to state are pretty complex.  Hopefully, as you suggested  some actual legal opinion will be offered.  I had a business law professor in college say that the law looks for someone to pay regardless of whether a person is actually responsible.  It may not win in court, but I'll bet the legal argument for someone being hit by a meteorite in a doctor's office would be something like, there is an implied guarantee of safety when entering the building.  

George

From bandk at chorus.net  Thu Feb  4 23:29:24 2010
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 22:29:24 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] FOR SALE: L@@K ON EBAY (12) Different Meteorites
	in (15) displays/packages!!
References: <507131.38431.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <52E908A7AFE74F318D15B412A861322C@owner55652f88b>

Hi Everyone!
Hope you are all doing well. PLEASE take a second and see my NICE Meteorite 
lot up for sale on ebay. Something for everyone including a micro DHOFAR 081 
Lunar piece in a gem case w/ID Card!

Ebay item #120527000777

Thanks & have a great weekend!!
Kirk......:-)





From edeckert at triad.rr.com  Thu Feb  4 23:01:32 2010
From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:01:32 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
References: <881269.26764.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00cc01caa617$e796aa70$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain>

I have used a popular children's toy, "Lego Blocks," to hold up mineral 
specimens for display.  They snap together, and can even be cut using a 
Dremel tool to accommodate odd shapes.  If necessary, before sitting the 
specimen on the Legos, a piece of cloth can be draped over the Legos to hide 
them from view.

For really heavy stuff, I don't know how well they would work out without 
separating from the weight.  But for reasonable weights(maybe up to a kilo,) 
if put together properly, I expect they should hold together just fine.

Legos are not all that expensive.  I got a big tub of Legos on a clearance 
sale after Christmas a few years ago, making them an even better bargain.

Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
To: "meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Erik Fisler" 
<erikfwebb at msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!


> I'm sure this will be a touchy subject, just as it is in the greater 
> mineral collector and curator field, but "Mineral Tack" is widely 
> suggested. White apparently isn't widely available any longer but blue 
> should be available in office supply stores.
>
> Here is one retailer selling what I am talking about.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yl6yo8c
>
>
> Use it sparingly as a small ball behind the specimen, or on either end of 
> a small stick (toothpick) to support the specimen .
>
> Alternatively if you don't want to have anything "tacky" touching your 
> specimens, use some crumpled up some Aluminium foil to support the 
> specimen.
>
> I'm assuming this is just for something like photography, so make sure 
> whatever you use is not visible from the camera.
>
> If you are talking long term display, an acrylic or metal stand is 
> preferred.
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Full Moon Photography
> IMCA #1081
>
>
> --- On Thu, 2/4/10, Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
>> To: "meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 6:56 AM
>>
>> What should I use to prop up stones?
>>
>> [Erik]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
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> Database version: 6.14290
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From cdtucson at cox.net  Thu Feb  4 23:40:08 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:40:08 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
 rock'
In-Reply-To: <20100205033144.B13D710533@mailwash5.pair.com>
Message-ID: <20100204234008.X8DGZ.544979.imail@fed1rmwml37>

Bob, 
Thank you for the response. That is fair to say but the problem with Federal land is that it is illegal to pick the stuff up without a permit. So, the collection has to be for the government. if you don't pick it up it will rot and then nobody will ever get a chance at it. During the mapping of Gold Basin. Nobody wanted to bother to collect the material on into the federal land because they could not keep it. 100% of the meteorites found on Federal area of the gold basin strewnfield had to be given to the smithsonian museum. If you look at the map it is very much lighter on the federal owned section. Today you will get into big trouble if caught hunting there. 
But when on state land you are allowed to pick stuff up. that's all I'm saying. Why do they differ? State land meteorites get picked up and preserved. Federal meteorites get to rot. There must still be tons of meteorites yet to be found but never will be due to these stupid laws.  Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com> wrote: 
> Hi Carl,
> 
> > I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed.
> > land. The fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found
> > on Fed. land all went to the smithsonian.
> 
> If you don't want the Fed Gov to get the treasures that are found on Fed
> land, who should get them?  Even you said that the treasures "belong to all
> of us", but if you find something and take it home (and either keep it or
> sell it), the rest of us don't get to share in the ownership or joy of what
> you found. So then that is not fair because it should belong to all of us,
> right?  So, the Gov puts the treasure in a museum so all of us can see it.
> All of the people now have a partial ownership/interest in it, not just one
> or two people.
> 
> BTW, I don't work for the Gov. and didn't get paid by anyone to say
> anything.  :-)  This is just what I think this law is trying to do.  I could
> be wrong.
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> cdtucson at cox.net
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:45 PM
> To: Adam; George Blahun Jr
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
> rock'
> 
> George. 
> Just one moment here. What if the rightful owner of the glasses never claims
> 
> them? you have no idea who left them. Could have been a visitor asking for 
> directions. Who owns them? The landlord??? Nobody is not the right answer
> here. 
> Also, Nobody wants your tree but the key is that it is yours! 
> What if you are leasing the tree in a business that sells the fruit? Who is 
> responsible then? The owner of the tree or you because you are in legal
> control 
> of it. Just asking. 
> In the case of the contractor. Well, he did discover the treasure inside the
> 
> wall. What most would have done is haul it off into the truck as he was 
> contracted to do and never mention it ( haul away the debris) . What he did
> do 
> is tell the home owner and she wanted all of it. This case ended in all of
> her 
> relatives learning of it and the sum was divided many ways between all of
> them. 
> She got greedy and lost more than she gained . I love this case because
> greed 
> did not prevail. Her greed cost her mucho dineros . As a side note the 
> contractor did the right thing but it came down to. "No good deed goes 
> unpunished". As much as I hate to say that. 
>  I was an Architect/contractor and I know most of my subs would have simply 
> hauled away the envelope with the rest of the debris, medicine cabinet and
> all. 
> Plus she was lucky the envelope had her relatives name on it because it
> might 
> have belonged to a previous home owner. all of this played out in court.
> which 
> is why I want to see this in court. 
> I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed. land.
> The 
> fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found on Fed. land all
> went 
> to the smithsonian. That is why the strewn field looks so bottom heavy. Take
> 
> care and thank you.. Carl 
> -- 
> Carl or Debbie Esparza 
> Meteoritemax 
>  
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
> 
> 
> ---- George Blahun Jr <ks1u at att.net> wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Carl:
> >     Hello and thanks for your comments and point of view.  I actually
> didn't intend for this to be taken as cut and  dry.  I do come down on the
> side of the land owners, but my reference to the EM Spectrum implies that
> there is always another point of view.  If you were unfortunate enough to be
> hit by a meteorite on someone else's property, I believe you'd be entitled
> to damages for your injury and pain and suffering.   If you were walking on
> my property here in CT and one of my black walnut trees fell on you, you
> could (and should) file a claim against my home owners policy, but I don't
> think you'd get to keep the black walnut tree which is probably  worth about
> 10K for the wood.  
> >      In your example of the dollar bill, a fairly insignificant amount if
> you can afford to see a doctor, the dollar probably goes to the finder.  But
> if you drop your Maui Jim sunglasses there, you still have the right to them
> and neither the finder nor the doctor nor the landlord owns them.  Of course
> most communities have a procedure for claiming a lost and found, unlike a
> space rock.  This series of events changes if the object which hits you is
> from a military satellite.   They'd deny any responsibility but want it back
> anyhow. 
> > 
> >     There was a court case recently where a contractor was removing a wall
> in a house and found a bunch of money which had been hidden in there for
> decades.  The contractor tried to claim it using the old legal defense of
> "finders keepers losers weepers"  but the courts said, no.  
> >     I guess we all have a slight bias when interpreting the law and what
> constitutes ownership.  This no doubt determines which side of this issue we
> each come down on.
> > 
> > George
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 02/04/10
> 00:35:00
> 
> ______________________________________________
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> Meteorite-list mailing list
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From markig at westnet.com  Thu Feb  4 23:27:55 2010
From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:27:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Guns
References: <491686.1756.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DC78C0214B624CA98E8A3C831826F8B6@QED>

Art, as moderator of the list, is it possible to provide a little guidance 
here and suggest that this topic has been discussed sufficiently, and put 
out a request to refrain from posting anymore on this subject?  Not 
censorship mind you, but a little nudge in the right direction which is done 
by the moderators of many lists when the discussion on a topic has reached 
this point.

You are respected by all for the fine work you do as moderator of the list. 
I am sure a word or two from you could put this to bed as far as the list 
goes.

Then everyone could continue to discuss their views on this topic to each 
other off list.

Thank you for your consideration of this request.

Mark Grossman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:12 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Guns


>
> Lots of chatter on this. Please forgive this semi -off topic post.
>
> I am not making a "soap box triade " here. And for the record, I too grew 
> up with guns as my  Dad was  a  big hunter ( but I never liked killing 
> anything so I never was a hunter). I do however own a pistol and a rifle, 
> for whatever that has to say.
>
> About 2 years ago, my wife went to a local Firehouse Sandwich in a VERY 
> "resectable" part of town at roughly 8:30 pm to get my 2 sons some late 
> supper. The next thing I knew, my phone rang from that place. The voice on 
> the phone said my wife was OK (thank God) but they had just been robbed by 
> two armed "men".  My wife had been forced to get down on her knees  while 
> a "man" held a gun to her head while the robbery was taking place. My life 
> could have ended right there along with her's but thank God they did't 
> pull the trigger! I have to say that after that, it entered my mind that I 
> wished guns had NEVER been invented.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 23:55:14 2010
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:55:14 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite worth thousands...........
In-Reply-To: <0F08DCC7-AB05-458F-AB20-5FC256D628EB@gilanet.com>
References: <ad733151002030834nd09e198j3c0e5732ce1479c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<6FCA9BD7-8C64-43F8-A3FA-5058028F0DB2@gilanet.com>
	<f0a794131002040751r5646146bybaa43ea42cfb81b4@mail.gmail.com>
	<0F08DCC7-AB05-458F-AB20-5FC256D628EB@gilanet.com>
Message-ID: <f0a794131002042055l48c98173ufc54458eb0211c95@mail.gmail.com>

Michael,

Sorry, but I think your criticism of the media and meteorite men is a
little harsh and one sided. In the case of the washington post, this
story is about a legal battle over the ownership of a high end
meteorite. Reporting about $10 meteorites is not relevant. Reporting
about the true value of this meteorite is.

Stories like this will inspire and motivate locals to look for these
meteorites, this will hopefully lead to more lorton meteorites being
found which is good for science and the meteorite world. Two weeks
after the fall, when the story has already been forgotten, the trail
has gone cold and the pros have gone home unable to find any low
hanging fruit what chance is there other than a local finding it?
Without the media reporting about it, how would a local even know to
look? Without a financial motive why would they care? In this regard,
I believe the media is an important tool in finding meteorites from
new falls and I am happy the post is still covering the story -- it
keeps the rocks on people's minds.

Thanks,

Mike




On Thursday, February 4, 2010, michael cottingham <mikewren at gilanet.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> WOW! ?STOP. You prove my point exactly and you read a lot into what I said!
>
>> NEVER. Did I suggest That the Lorton was not worth a lot of money. It probably is worth 50k, give or take. NEVER, did I compare it to NWA. ? You prove my point, because the HIGH END is the only thing people remember.
>
> Here is my quote from the Washington Post Article:
>
> Internet auction sites such as eBay have made buying and selling meteorite bits and chunks far more lucrative in recent years, said Michael Cottingham, a New Mexico-based hunter and dealer. Prices for small bits of the space rock can vary on the Web site from $10 for a common bit of meteorite that landed long ago, up to thousands of dollars for a newly landed specimens.
>
> "When you get a new meteorite like the one in Lorton, the low-end figure gets forgotten," Cottingham says. "You're just not going to go find some meteorites and pay all your bills."
>
> I took a lot of effort to get him to write $10.00! ?He only wanted to know about the high end. TV shows and news stories that ONLY State the high end do more harm then good. In fact, they drive away young collectors. If young collectors or new collectors think all meteorites cost 10k, you will get very few people coming in to the field. YOU ALSO DRIVE UP FIELD PRICES. I am not talking about cheating a farmer or rancher by trying to get something for nothing, I am talking about ridiculous price being asked because of ignorance and TV SHOWS that are poorly done.
>
> I had 6 meteorites located last year. All real meteorites. ALL 6 meteorites were found by people who saw the cash and treasure show and the 1st episode of "Meteorite Men". ?All- and I mean all of these people thought their stones were worth 100k to begin with. Where did they get this idea? ? They got it from BAD REPORTING . ?Where did the farmer get the idea that his 1 kilo ugly ass chondrite was worth $45,000.00 ???? ?From the show Cash and Treasure!
> That is a fact and if I need to get his statement in writing he has agreed to do this.... because BAD REPORTING AND BAD TV Shows can and do harm this field.
>
> In my ebay store I have 100's of meteorites under $100.00. Do you mention that. NO. You quote my high end collection pieces only.
>
> Unlike a lot of people on this list (Most in fact) I have supported my 5 children by really making a living by hunting, buying and selling meteorites for the last 10+ years. When I tell you that TV shows have had a negative impact on the field - I am not talking hot air.
>
> There are 4+ meteorites sitting in farmer's houses right now because of what these people have perceived to learn about meteorites.
>
> on and on and on.....
>
> Michael Cottingham
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2010, at 8:51 AM, Mike Hankey wrote:
>
>
> Michael,
>
> I have to repectfully disagree with some of your satements. First
> suggesting that a hammer stone from a witnessed fall in the nations
> Capitol is equivellent in price to a weathered nwa at cents a gram is
> nonsense. This tactic is more about getting a good deal from an
> unwitting landowner than the preservation of science.
>
> Secondly I have seen the prices on most of your collection and from
> what I can tell that farmer in Texas isn't asking much more than what
> you are asking for your west meteorites. Why should an educated farmer
> take the hit just so a collector can take the prize?
>
> Third media and shows about meteorites are good for meteorites. It
> increases demand which in turn increases sales and values. Supply is
> limited which means anyone already invested in meteorites will
> benefit. Commodities can become overvalued at times look at real
> estate. When someone is asking too much the product doesn't sell. This
> is part of capitalism.
>
> I don't think the values of the lorton meteorite have been
> misteprestend in any of the stories.
>
> Spreading knowledge and excitement about meteorites is a good for
> meteorites, good for science and it leads to discoveries. Hording
> knowledge is good for profits and that's about it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2010, michael cottingham <mikewren at gilanet.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> It should be of great concern. Every news article, every TV show, every special that features meteorites as "treasure" first, and science second, will most likely result in a distorted view of what meteorites are worth.
>
> In my recent interview with the Washington Post writer, we spent nearly 20-30 minutes talking about the pricing of meteorites. I expressed to him that it was extremely important to report the pricing accurately. I told him almost every time a story is done on meteorites and prices are mentioned, well the reporter seems to forget the pennies per gram and goes with the ten's of thousands that a meteorite could be worth.
>
> I told him when you state the high end only, you get a distorted view of pricing, and the results can be extremely negative. I believe you have more fraud on ebay, because people think they can get $10,000 for the meteorwrong, not $10.00. This is most likely a direct result of distorted news reporting and TV shows.
>
> I know many of you dearly love the Meteorite TV shows of late, and think they are nothing but great for the field of meteorites. Well, I know of 4 meteorites in the field, who's owners/finders want tens of thousands of dollars, more than these little chondrites are worth- simply because of the Cash and Treasure Show and the first Meteorite Men episode.
>
> So, because I will not pay, $45,000 for a 1 kilo chondrite from North Texas, it will sit, like many others meteorites with the owners- who believe, because of TV shows that were done poorly, that they are worth $50,000 or more. ?Science will loose out if reporting is not done accurately.
>
> Best Wishes
>
> Michael Cottingham
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:34 AM, Michael Groetz wrote:
>
>
> List-
>  ?Maybe many of the rest of you don't feel this way- but to me it
> generally seems the news media and television shows are more concerned
> about a quick buck rather than the science and appreciation for
> meteorites for what they are- treasures from space that you can hold
> in your hand.
>  ?It seems like initially meteorites are viewed as something special
> and usually wind up "How much is it worth?" after buyers roll in.
> ?The doctor in this case tried to maintain the scientific value for
> all to appreciate while helping the people of Haiti. Then the $$$ was
> thrown at them and greed seems to be winning out.
>  ?Sorry for the frustration.
> Mike
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/03/meteorite-worth-thousands-stirs-ownership-debate/
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Ar


From astroroks at hotmail.com  Thu Feb  4 23:59:29 2010
From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 22:59:29 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
In-Reply-To: <20100205042832.BEC1110535@mailwash5.pair.com>
References: <20100205042030.3E12B10537@mailwash5.pair.com>,
	<20100205042832.BEC1110535@mailwash5.pair.com>
Message-ID: <COL113-W2044F1B4EFDDB14DD1E174B1540@phx.gbl>


What I find that works well, is the clear non-drying,
snot like, sticky stuff, that they send your new credit
cards in the mail with.  I sure wish I could find out
who makes that stuff and how to purchase it.
Dennis

----------------------------------------
> From: bobl at peaktopeak.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:28:30 -0700
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
>
> Hi all,
>
> I found the Mineral Tack on their website. I guess they call their business
> Shannon and Son's Minerals now. Here is a direct link to the stuff.
>
> http://www.shannonsminerals.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=329&products_
> id=30124
>
> It's a silicone-based tack. At first glance it looks blue, but that is the
> packaging. It is an off-white color (slightly grayish but more white than
> gray). I've used it for 10 years or so.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bob
> Loeffler
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:20 PM
> To: 'meteorite-list'
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
>
> I've never used Mineral Tack with meteorites, but it is very safe
> (chemically) for all mineral specimens that I've used it on. I've never
> seen any staining or noticeable chemical changes in my specimens. It is not
> supposed to have any oils in it, but maybe there are a few different brands
> and some are better than others. I got mine from David Shannon Minerals in
> Mesa, Arizona (I think). David passed away a couple years ago, but his wife
> and family were still in business a year ago. Not sure about now.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> Kowalski
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:33 AM
> To: meteorite-list; Erik Fisler
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
>
> I'm sure this will be a touchy subject, just as it is in the greater mineral
> collector and curator field, but "Mineral Tack" is widely suggested. White
> apparently isn't widely available any longer but blue should be available in
> office supply stores.
>
> Here is one retailer selling what I am talking about.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yl6yo8c
>
>
> Use it sparingly as a small ball behind the specimen, or on either end of a
> small stick (toothpick) to support the specimen .
>
> Alternatively if you don't want to have anything "tacky" touching your
> specimens, use some crumpled up some Aluminium foil to support the specimen.
>
> I'm assuming this is just for something like photography, so make sure
> whatever you use is not visible from the camera.
>
> If you are talking long term display, an acrylic or metal stand is
> preferred.
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Full Moon Photography
> IMCA #1081
>
>
> --- On Thu, 2/4/10, Erik Fisler wrote:
>
>> From: Erik Fisler 
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't use putty!
>> To: "meteorite-list" 
>> Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 6:56 AM
>>
>> What should I use to prop up stones?
>>
>> [Erik]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 02/04/10
> 00:35:00
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 02/04/10
> 00:35:00
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
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From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Fri Feb  5 00:58:11 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:58:11 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite worth thousands...........
In-Reply-To: <f0a794131002042055l48c98173ufc54458eb0211c95@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ad733151002030834nd09e198j3c0e5732ce1479c7@mail.gmail.com>	<6FCA9BD7-8C64-43F8-A3FA-5058028F0DB2@gilanet.com>	<f0a794131002040751r5646146bybaa43ea42cfb81b4@mail.gmail.com>	<0F08DCC7-AB05-458F-AB20-5FC256D628EB@gilanet.com>
	<f0a794131002042055l48c98173ufc54458eb0211c95@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6BB373.3010306@meteoritesusa.com>

Hey Mike, List,

I agree that the media is and can be a good tool to keep people aware of 
meteorites, their value to science and collectors. However, I think 
their needs to be accurate reporting and not the one-sided reporting 
we've seen thus far from the Post. They're very conveniently painting a 
picture of negativity surrounding the whole deal, and their motives are 
clear. Reporting should be reporting, not opinion. Leave opinions to the 
blogs. We read and watch the news for news, not some distorted 
politically motivated spin on the news.

The whole concentration on the money issue is only part of the problem. 
Kinda wierd me saying that since I do sell meteorites too. But even I 
cringed a little when all the numbers started clicking by on the screen 
with each new find on the Meteorite Men. But hey, I understand it's 
about entertainment, and TV shows are there to make money for the 
networks. Who's going to tune into a show that's nothing but pure 
science. That would be boring. Throw in some treasure hunting, some 
adventure, some "thrill of the hunt" and two very funny guys walking 
around the desert with metal detectors and you have the Meteorite Men 
show. I like the show. I think it's good for the meteorite world, but it 
also needs to be tempered with the news that's happening right now.

There's a big battle going on over the ownership of the newest meteorite 
fall in the USA (Lorton) that should never have been fought over. If 
this meteorite had fallen through a doctors office, on Main St of 
Anytown, USA back-country America I truly believe this would not be an 
issue. Instead it fell mere miles from the largest museum in the world, 
near the capitol of our nation, and went through the roof of a doctors 
office which was part of group of buildings owned by someone else. 
Perhaps, you couldn't have picked a worse place for it to hit.

Keep all meteorites in the news. Tell everyone the whole story of this 
event. Let people know that it's not just about the money. It's about 
the science AND the money. Let the Smithsonian have some for study and 
display, give the collecting public the opportunity to purchase some for 
their collections at a fair price, and allow everyone the right to view 
it. It did after all fall in the USA.

People are going to concentrate on the value. It's human nature. I 
understand that posting huge dollar amounts publicly makes it harder on 
hunters and those trying to recover meteorites in the field. But you 
have to start somewhere, and realize the media is going to report on the 
dollar value. That's a BIG part of the story and what pulls in their 
viewers and readers. Viewers that can be your eyes and ears on the ground.

The landowners are the people who watch these news reports and they are 
the ones we must treat with respect and above all follow their wishes. 
You can't just tell a landowner a meteorite is worth $20/g or $1/g or 
$100/g for their meteorite from a new fall because you don't know how 
things are going to turn out yet. All you can do is offer a fair price 
and work a deal with the landowner that is mutually beneficial 
regardless of what he or she "believes" it to be worth. I talked to 
enough landowners in West to know that it's not easy to get permission 
to hunt, especially when they believe that meteorites on their land are 
worth $10,000. But the fact is that not all meteorites are worth that. 
Once you establish raport with the landowner only then can you speak 
with them about money.

Part of establishing raport is good media information. If the reporters 
are educated in meteorites then they are more likely to report well on 
the issue and landowners might be more apt to let you hunt their land as 
long as they believe hunters are going to be fair with them. If not, and 
reporters paint it in a negative light, no one will call, and meteorites 
will be plowed over come planting season. Forever lost to science and 
collectors.

Keep meteorites in the news. Let landowners, media, and the public know 
that it's not all about the money, but that's a big part of it. I've 
made up a stock letter I send out to reporters, or when I comment on a 
website to let people who are caught up in the excitement know that 
their information is needed and that those who hunt and recover 
meteorites aren't all out just for the money, but that it's also ok if 
they are. It's all about honesty and fairness.

We need the media, the media needs us. The landowners, I'm sure would 
like a fair price and to be treated with respect.

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
www.meteoritesusa.com





On 2/4/2010 8:55 PM, Mike Hankey wrote:
> Michael,
>
> Sorry, but I think your criticism of the media and meteorite men is a
> little harsh and one sided. In the case of the washington post, this
> story is about a legal battle over the ownership of a high end
> meteorite. Reporting about $10 meteorites is not relevant. Reporting
> about the true value of this meteorite is.
>
> Stories like this will inspire and motivate locals to look for these
> meteorites, this will hopefully lead to more lorton meteorites being
> found which is good for science and the meteorite world. Two weeks
> after the fall, when the story has already been forgotten, the trail
> has gone cold and the pros have gone home unable to find any low
> hanging fruit what chance is there other than a local finding it?
> Without the media reporting about it, how would a local even know to
> look? Without a financial motive why would they care? In this regard,
> I believe the media is an important tool in finding meteorites from
> new falls and I am happy the post is still covering the story -- it
> keeps the rocks on people's minds.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2010, michael cottingham<mikewren at gilanet.com>  wrote:
>    
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>> WOW!  STOP. You prove my point exactly and you read a lot into what I said!
>>
>>      
>>> NEVER. Did I suggest That the Lorton was not worth a lot of money. It probably is worth 50k, give or take. NEVER, did I compare it to NWA.   You prove my point, because the HIGH END is the only thing people remember.
>>>        
>> Here is my quote from the Washington Post Article:
>>
>> Internet auction sites such as eBay have made buying and selling meteorite bits and chunks far more lucrative in recent years, said Michael Cottingham, a New Mexico-based hunter and dealer. Prices for small bits of the space rock can vary on the Web site from $10 for a common bit of meteorite that landed long ago, up to thousands of dollars for a newly landed specimens.
>>
>> "When you get a new meteorite like the one in Lorton, the low-end figure gets forgotten," Cottingham says. "You're just not going to go find some meteorites and pay all your bills."
>>
>> I took a lot of effort to get him to write $10.00!  He only wanted to know about the high end. TV shows and news stories that ONLY State the high end do more harm then good. In fact, they drive away young collectors. If young collectors or new collectors think all meteorites cost 10k, you will get very few people coming in to the field. YOU ALSO DRIVE UP FIELD PRICES. I am not talking about cheating a farmer or rancher by trying to get something for nothing, I am talking about ridiculous price being asked because of ignorance and TV SHOWS that are poorly done.
>>
>> I had 6 meteorites located last year. All real meteorites. ALL 6 meteorites were found by people who saw the cash and treasure show and the 1st episode of "Meteorite Men".  All- and I mean all of these people thought their stones were worth 100k to begin with. Where did they get this idea?   They got it from BAD REPORTING .  Where did the farmer get the idea that his 1 kilo ugly ass chondrite was worth $45,000.00 ????  From the show Cash and Treasure!
>> That is a fact and if I need to get his statement in writing he has agreed to do this.... because BAD REPORTING AND BAD TV Shows can and do harm this field.
>>
>> In my ebay store I have 100's of meteorites under $100.00. Do you mention that. NO. You quote my high end collection pieces only.
>>
>> Unlike a lot of people on this list (Most in fact) I have supported my 5 children by really making a living by hunting, buying and selling meteorites for the last 10+ years. When I tell you that TV shows have had a negative impact on the field - I am not talking hot air.
>>
>> There are 4+ meteorites sitting in farmer's houses right now because of what these people have perceived to learn about meteorites.
>>
>> on and on and on.....
>>
>> Michael Cottingham
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 4, 2010, at 8:51 AM, Mike Hankey wrote:
>>
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>> I have to repectfully disagree with some of your satements. First
>> suggesting that a hammer stone from a witnessed fall in the nations
>> Capitol is equivellent in price to a weathered nwa at cents a gram is
>> nonsense. This tactic is more about getting a good deal from an
>> unwitting landowner than the preservation of science.
>>
>> Secondly I have seen the prices on most of your collection and from
>> what I can tell that farmer in Texas isn't asking much more than what
>> you are asking for your west meteorites. Why should an educated farmer
>> take the hit just so a collector can take the prize?
>>
>> Third media and shows about meteorites are good for meteorites. It
>> increases demand which in turn increases sales and values. Supply is
>> limited which means anyone already invested in meteorites will
>> benefit. Commodities can become overvalued at times look at real
>> estate. When someone is asking too much the product doesn't sell. This
>> is part of capitalism.
>>
>> I don't think the values of the lorton meteorite have been
>> misteprestend in any of the stories.
>>
>> Spreading knowledge and excitement about meteorites is a good for
>> meteorites, good for science and it leads to discoveries. Hording
>> knowledge is good for profits and that's about it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2010, michael cottingham<mikewren at gilanet.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> It should be of great concern. Every news article, every TV show, every special that features meteorites as "treasure" first, and science second, will most likely result in a distorted view of what meteorites are worth.
>>
>> In my recent interview with the Washington Post writer, we spent nearly 20-30 minutes talking about the pricing of meteorites. I expressed to him that it was extremely important to report the pricing accurately. I told him almost every time a story is done on meteorites and prices are mentioned, well the reporter seems to forget the pennies per gram and goes with the ten's of thousands that a meteorite could be worth.
>>
>> I told him when you state the high end only, you get a distorted view of pricing, and the results can be extremely negative. I believe you have more fraud on ebay, because people think they can get $10,000 for the meteorwrong, not $10.00. This is most likely a direct result of distorted news reporting and TV shows.
>>
>> I know many of you dearly love the Meteorite TV shows of late, and think they are nothing but great for the field of meteorites. Well, I know of 4 meteorites in the field, who's owners/finders want tens of thousands of dollars, more than these little chondrites are worth- simply because of the Cash and Treasure Show and the first Meteorite Men episode.
>>
>> So, because I will not pay, $45,000 for a 1 kilo chondrite from North Texas, it will sit, like many others meteorites with the owners- who believe, because of TV shows that were done poorly, that they are worth $50,000 or more.  Science will loose out if reporting is not done accurately.
>>
>> Best Wishes
>>
>> Michael Cottingham
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:34 AM, Michael Groetz wrote:
>>
>>
>> List-
>>    Maybe many of the rest of you don't feel this way- but to me it
>> generally seems the news media and television shows are more concerned
>> about a quick buck rather than the science and appreciation for
>> meteorites for what they are- treasures from space that you can hold
>> in your hand.
>>    It seems like initially meteorites are viewed as something special
>> and usually wind up "How much is it worth?" after buyers roll in.
>>   The doctor in this case tried to maintain the scientific value for
>> all to appreciate while helping the people of Haiti. Then the $$$ was
>> thrown at them and greed seems to be winning out.
>>    Sorry for the frustration.
>> Mike
>>
>> http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/03/meteorite-worth-thousands-stirs-ownership-debate/
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Ar
>>      
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Fri Feb  5 00:58:31 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:58:31 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite worth thousands...........
In-Reply-To: <f0a794131002042055l48c98173ufc54458eb0211c95@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ad733151002030834nd09e198j3c0e5732ce1479c7@mail.gmail.com>	<6FCA9BD7-8C64-43F8-A3FA-5058028F0DB2@gilanet.com>	<f0a794131002040751r5646146bybaa43ea42cfb81b4@mail.gmail.com>	<0F08DCC7-AB05-458F-AB20-5FC256D628EB@gilanet.com>
	<f0a794131002042055l48c98173ufc54458eb0211c95@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6BB387.1070803@meteoritesusa.com>

Hey Mike, List,

I agree that the media is and can be a good tool to keep people aware of 
meteorites, their value to science and collectors. However, I think 
their needs to be accurate reporting and not the one-sided reporting 
we've seen thus far from the Post. They're very conveniently painting a 
picture of negativity surrounding the whole deal, and their motives are 
clear. Reporting should be reporting, not opinion. Leave opinions to the 
blogs. We read and watch the news for news, not some distorted 
politically motivated spin on the news.

The whole concentration on the money issue is only part of the problem. 
Kinda wierd me saying that since I do sell meteorites too. But even I 
cringed a little when all the numbers started clicking by on the screen 
with each new find on the Meteorite Men. But hey, I understand it's 
about entertainment, and TV shows are there to make money for the 
networks. Who's going to tune into a show that's nothing but pure 
science. That would be boring. Throw in some treasure hunting, some 
adventure, some "thrill of the hunt" and two very funny guys walking 
around the desert with metal detectors and you have the Meteorite Men 
show. I like the show. I think it's good for the meteorite world, but it 
also needs to be tempered with the news that's happening right now.

There's a big battle going on over the ownership of the newest meteorite 
fall in the USA (Lorton) that should never have been fought over. If 
this meteorite had fallen through a doctors office, on Main St of 
Anytown, USA back-country America I truly believe this would not be an 
issue. Instead it fell mere miles from the largest museum in the world, 
near the capitol of our nation, and went through the roof of a doctors 
office which was part of group of buildings owned by someone else. 
Perhaps, you couldn't have picked a worse place for it to hit.

Keep all meteorites in the news. Tell everyone the whole story of this 
event. Let people know that it's not just about the money. It's about 
the science AND the money. Let the Smithsonian have some for study and 
display, give the collecting public the opportunity to purchase some for 
their collections at a fair price, and allow everyone the right to view 
it. It did after all fall in the USA.

People are going to concentrate on the value. It's human nature. I 
understand that posting huge dollar amounts publicly makes it harder on 
hunters and those trying to recover meteorites in the field. But you 
have to start somewhere, and realize the media is going to report on the 
dollar value. That's a BIG part of the story and what pulls in their 
viewers and readers. Viewers that can be your eyes and ears on the ground.

The landowners are the people who watch these news reports and they are 
the ones we must treat with respect and above all follow their wishes. 
You can't just tell a landowner a meteorite is worth $20/g or $1/g or 
$100/g for their meteorite from a new fall because you don't know how 
things are going to turn out yet. All you can do is offer a fair price 
and work a deal with the landowner that is mutually beneficial 
regardless of what he or she "believes" it to be worth. I talked to 
enough landowners in West to know that it's not easy to get permission 
to hunt, especially when they believe that meteorites on their land are 
worth $10,000. But the fact is that not all meteorites are worth that. 
Once you establish raport with the landowner only then can you speak 
with them about money.

Part of establishing raport is good media information. If the reporters 
are educated in meteorites then they are more likely to report well on 
the issue and landowners might be more apt to let you hunt their land as 
long as they believe hunters are going to be fair with them. If not, and 
reporters paint it in a negative light, no one will call, and meteorites 
will be plowed over come planting season. Forever lost to science and 
collectors.

Keep meteorites in the news. Let landowners, media, and the public know 
that it's not all about the money, but that's a big part of it. I've 
made up a stock letter I send out to reporters, or when I comment on a 
website to let people who are caught up in the excitement know that 
their information is needed and that those who hunt and recover 
meteorites aren't all out just for the money, but that it's also ok if 
they are. It's all about honesty and fairness.

We need the media, the media needs us. The landowners, I'm sure would 
like a fair price and to be treated with respect.

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
www.meteoritesusa.com





On 2/4/2010 8:55 PM, Mike Hankey wrote:
> Michael,
>
> Sorry, but I think your criticism of the media and meteorite men is a
> little harsh and one sided. In the case of the washington post, this
> story is about a legal battle over the ownership of a high end
> meteorite. Reporting about $10 meteorites is not relevant. Reporting
> about the true value of this meteorite is.
>
> Stories like this will inspire and motivate locals to look for these
> meteorites, this will hopefully lead to more lorton meteorites being
> found which is good for science and the meteorite world. Two weeks
> after the fall, when the story has already been forgotten, the trail
> has gone cold and the pros have gone home unable to find any low
> hanging fruit what chance is there other than a local finding it?
> Without the media reporting about it, how would a local even know to
> look? Without a financial motive why would they care? In this regard,
> I believe the media is an important tool in finding meteorites from
> new falls and I am happy the post is still covering the story -- it
> keeps the rocks on people's minds.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2010, michael cottingham<mikewren at gilanet.com>  wrote:
>    
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>> WOW!  STOP. You prove my point exactly and you read a lot into what I said!
>>
>>      
>>> NEVER. Did I suggest That the Lorton was not worth a lot of money. It probably is worth 50k, give or take. NEVER, did I compare it to NWA.   You prove my point, because the HIGH END is the only thing people remember.
>>>        
>> Here is my quote from the Washington Post Article:
>>
>> Internet auction sites such as eBay have made buying and selling meteorite bits and chunks far more lucrative in recent years, said Michael Cottingham, a New Mexico-based hunter and dealer. Prices for small bits of the space rock can vary on the Web site from $10 for a common bit of meteorite that landed long ago, up to thousands of dollars for a newly landed specimens.
>>
>> "When you get a new meteorite like the one in Lorton, the low-end figure gets forgotten," Cottingham says. "You're just not going to go find some meteorites and pay all your bills."
>>
>> I took a lot of effort to get him to write $10.00!  He only wanted to know about the high end. TV shows and news stories that ONLY State the high end do more harm then good. In fact, they drive away young collectors. If young collectors or new collectors think all meteorites cost 10k, you will get very few people coming in to the field. YOU ALSO DRIVE UP FIELD PRICES. I am not talking about cheating a farmer or rancher by trying to get something for nothing, I am talking about ridiculous price being asked because of ignorance and TV SHOWS that are poorly done.
>>
>> I had 6 meteorites located last year. All real meteorites. ALL 6 meteorites were found by people who saw the cash and treasure show and the 1st episode of "Meteorite Men".  All- and I mean all of these people thought their stones were worth 100k to begin with. Where did they get this idea?   They got it from BAD REPORTING .  Where did the farmer get the idea that his 1 kilo ugly ass chondrite was worth $45,000.00 ????  From the show Cash and Treasure!
>> That is a fact and if I need to get his statement in writing he has agreed to do this.... because BAD REPORTING AND BAD TV Shows can and do harm this field.
>>
>> In my ebay store I have 100's of meteorites under $100.00. Do you mention that. NO. You quote my high end collection pieces only.
>>
>> Unlike a lot of people on this list (Most in fact) I have supported my 5 children by really making a living by hunting, buying and selling meteorites for the last 10+ years. When I tell you that TV shows have had a negative impact on the field - I am not talking hot air.
>>
>> There are 4+ meteorites sitting in farmer's houses right now because of what these people have perceived to learn about meteorites.
>>
>> on and on and on.....
>>
>> Michael Cottingham
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 4, 2010, at 8:51 AM, Mike Hankey wrote:
>>
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>> I have to repectfully disagree with some of your satements. First
>> suggesting that a hammer stone from a witnessed fall in the nations
>> Capitol is equivellent in price to a weathered nwa at cents a gram is
>> nonsense. This tactic is more about getting a good deal from an
>> unwitting landowner than the preservation of science.
>>
>> Secondly I have seen the prices on most of your collection and from
>> what I can tell that farmer in Texas isn't asking much more than what
>> you are asking for your west meteorites. Why should an educated farmer
>> take the hit just so a collector can take the prize?
>>
>> Third media and shows about meteorites are good for meteorites. It
>> increases demand which in turn increases sales and values. Supply is
>> limited which means anyone already invested in meteorites will
>> benefit. Commodities can become overvalued at times look at real
>> estate. When someone is asking too much the product doesn't sell. This
>> is part of capitalism.
>>
>> I don't think the values of the lorton meteorite have been
>> misteprestend in any of the stories.
>>
>> Spreading knowledge and excitement about meteorites is a good for
>> meteorites, good for science and it leads to discoveries. Hording
>> knowledge is good for profits and that's about it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2010, michael cottingham<mikewren at gilanet.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> It should be of great concern. Every news article, every TV show, every special that features meteorites as "treasure" first, and science second, will most likely result in a distorted view of what meteorites are worth.
>>
>> In my recent interview with the Washington Post writer, we spent nearly 20-30 minutes talking about the pricing of meteorites. I expressed to him that it was extremely important to report the pricing accurately. I told him almost every time a story is done on meteorites and prices are mentioned, well the reporter seems to forget the pennies per gram and goes with the ten's of thousands that a meteorite could be worth.
>>
>> I told him when you state the high end only, you get a distorted view of pricing, and the results can be extremely negative. I believe you have more fraud on ebay, because people think they can get $10,000 for the meteorwrong, not $10.00. This is most likely a direct result of distorted news reporting and TV shows.
>>
>> I know many of you dearly love the Meteorite TV shows of late, and think they are nothing but great for the field of meteorites. Well, I know of 4 meteorites in the field, who's owners/finders want tens of thousands of dollars, more than these little chondrites are worth- simply because of the Cash and Treasure Show and the first Meteorite Men episode.
>>
>> So, because I will not pay, $45,000 for a 1 kilo chondrite from North Texas, it will sit, like many others meteorites with the owners- who believe, because of TV shows that were done poorly, that they are worth $50,000 or more.  Science will loose out if reporting is not done accurately.
>>
>> Best Wishes
>>
>> Michael Cottingham
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:34 AM, Michael Groetz wrote:
>>
>>
>> List-
>>    Maybe many of the rest of you don't feel this way- but to me it
>> generally seems the news media and television shows are more concerned
>> about a quick buck rather than the science and appreciation for
>> meteorites for what they are- treasures from space that you can hold
>> in your hand.
>>    It seems like initially meteorites are viewed as something special
>> and usually wind up "How much is it worth?" after buyers roll in.
>>   The doctor in this case tried to maintain the scientific value for
>> all to appreciate while helping the people of Haiti. Then the $$$ was
>> thrown at them and greed seems to be winning out.
>>    Sorry for the frustration.
>> Mike
>>
>> http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/03/meteorite-worth-thousands-stirs-ownership-debate/
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Ar
>>      
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  5 02:33:16 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:33:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
Message-ID: <367707.10894.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello Listernites
?
Here is a link about the laws of ownership on meteorites.?I had posted?it a?few days ago, which?Ill post again because it looks like it?will be a good reference to this topic on ownership. I hope the owner/s get a good lawyer because it looks like the Smithsonian isn't leaving anything behind for the public because the Smithsonian has the vacuum bag in their possession that wasused to clean up the mess from the Lorton meteorite.
?
Shawn Alan
?
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2001/pdf/5150.pdf 
?
[meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
cdtucson at cox.net cdtucson at cox.net 
Thu Feb 4 23:40:08 EST 2010 


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Bob, 
Thank you for the response. That is fair to say but the problem with Federal land is that it is illegal to pick the stuff up without a permit. So, the collection has to be for the government. if you don't pick it up it will rot and then nobody will ever get a chance at it. During the mapping of Gold Basin. Nobody wanted to bother to collect the material on into the federal land because they could not keep it. 100% of the meteorites found on Federal area of the gold basin strewnfield had to be given to the smithsonian museum. If you look at the map it is very much lighter on the federal owned section. Today you will get into big trouble if caught hunting there. 
But when on state land you are allowed to pick stuff up. that's all I'm saying. Why do they differ? State land meteorites get picked up and preserved. Federal meteorites get to rot. There must still be tons of meteorites yet to be found but never will be due to these stupid laws. Carl 
-- 
Carl or Debbie Esparza 
Meteoritemax 


---- Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com> wrote: 

> Hi Carl, 

> 

> > I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed. 

> > land. The fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found 

> > on Fed. land all went to the smithsonian. 

> 

> If you don't want the Fed Gov to get the treasures that are found on Fed 

> land, who should get them? Even you said that the treasures "belong to all 

> of us", but if you find something and take it home (and either keep it or 

> sell it), the rest of us don't get to share in the ownership or joy of what 

> you found. So then that is not fair because it should belong to all of us, 

> right? So, the Gov puts the treasure in a museum so all of us can see it. 

> All of the people now have a partial ownership/interest in it, not just one 

> or two people. 

> 

> BTW, I don't work for the Gov. and didn't get paid by anyone to say 

> anything. :-) This is just what I think this law is trying to do. I could 

> be wrong. 

> 

> Regards, 

> 

> Bob 

> 

> 

> 

> -----Original Message----- 

> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 

> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of 

> cdtucson at cox.net 

> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:45 PM 

> To: Adam; George Blahun Jr 

> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's 

> rock' 

> 

> George. 

> Just one moment here. What if the rightful owner of the glasses never claims 

> 

> them? you have no idea who left them. Could have been a visitor asking for 

> directions. Who owns them? The landlord??? Nobody is not the right answer 

> here. 

> Also, Nobody wants your tree but the key is that it is yours! 

> What if you are leasing the tree in a business that sells the fruit? Who is 

> responsible then? The owner of the tree or you because you are in legal 

> control 

> of it. Just asking. 

> In the case of the contractor. Well, he did discover the treasure inside the 

> 

> wall. What most would have done is haul it off into the truck as he was 

> contracted to do and never mention it ( haul away the debris) . What he did 

> do 

> is tell the home owner and she wanted all of it. This case ended in all of 

> her 

> relatives learning of it and the sum was divided many ways between all of 

> them. 

> She got greedy and lost more than she gained . I love this case because 

> greed 

> did not prevail. Her greed cost her mucho dineros . As a side note the 

> contractor did the right thing but it came down to. "No good deed goes 

> unpunished". As much as I hate to say that. 

> I was an Architect/contractor and I know most of my subs would have simply 

> hauled away the envelope with the rest of the debris, medicine cabinet and 

> all. 

> Plus she was lucky the envelope had her relatives name on it because it 

> might 

> have belonged to a previous home owner. all of this played out in court. 

> which 

> is why I want to see this in court. 

> I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed. land. 

> The 

> fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found on Fed. land all 

> went 

> to the smithsonian. That is why the strewn field looks so bottom heavy. Take 

> 

> care and thank you.. Carl 

> -- 

> Carl or Debbie Esparza 

> Meteoritemax 

> 

> -- 

> Carl or Debbie Esparza 

> Meteoritemax 

> 

> 

> ---- George Blahun Jr <ks1u at att.net> wrote: 

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > Carl: 

> > Hello and thanks for your comments and point of view. I actually 

> didn't intend for this to be taken as cut and dry. I do come down on the 

> side of the land owners, but my reference to the EM Spectrum implies that 

> there is always another point of view. If you were unfortunate enough to be 

> hit by a meteorite on someone else's property, I believe you'd be entitled 

> to damages for your injury and pain and suffering. If you were walking on 

> my property here in CT and one of my black walnut trees fell on you, you 

> could (and should) file a claim against my home owners policy, but I don't 

> think you'd get to keep the black walnut tree which is probably worth about 

> 10K for the wood. 

> > In your example of the dollar bill, a fairly insignificant amount if 

> you can afford to see a doctor, the dollar probably goes to the finder. But 

> if you drop your Maui Jim sunglasses there, you still have the right to them 

> and neither the finder nor the doctor nor the landlord owns them. Of course 

> most communities have a procedure for claiming a lost and found, unlike a 

> space rock. This series of events changes if the object which hits you is 

> from a military satellite. They'd deny any responsibility but want it back 

> anyhow. 

> > 

> > There was a court case recently where a contractor was removing a wall 

> in a house and found a bunch of money which had been hidden in there for 

> decades. The contractor tried to claim it using the old legal defense of 

> "finders keepers losers weepers" but the courts said, no. 

> > I guess we all have a slight bias when interpreting the law and what 

> constitutes ownership. This no doubt determines which side of this issue we 

> each come down on. 

> > 

> > George 

> > 

> > 

> > ______________________________________________ 

> > Visit the Archives at 

> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 

> > Meteorite-list mailing list 

> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

> 

> ______________________________________________ 

> Visit the Archives at 

> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 

> Meteorite-list mailing list 

> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

> 

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> ______________________________________________ 

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From lintonius at earthlink.net  Fri Feb  5 02:45:24 2010
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:45:24 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: "more interesting than a debate about firearms"
Message-ID: <D2CF946F864E44FAA2B76C9D8B3E7EE2@LintoniusLaptop>

 "IMO, the 2010 gem show is considerably more interesting than a debate 
about
 firearms."

 Absolutely, Geoff!
It's a damn shame to have this nonsense on the list during the big event of 
the year.
Linton - off to the show...


> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Notkin" <geoking at notkin.net>
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't let them take away your 
> guns...meteorites will be next!
>
>
>> Jason posted:
>>
>>> My thoughts on the subject is that those were very stupid photographs.
>>
>>
>> Dear Listees:
>>
>> Regarding the joke photo taken the other day: The owner of the 9 mm,
>> and Libby, and myself all double checked that it was not loaded. We
>> are all trained in firearm safety and know what we're doing. At no
>> time was the pistol pointed at Blaine or myself. The photo was
>> cleverly staged by Greg to make it appear as though the gun was aimed
>> at us.
>>
>> Different people obviously have different views about firearm
>> ownership. Some dealers in AZ choose to keep firearms in their show
>> rooms to protect their valuable stock. That is perfectly legal in
>> Arizona.
>>
>> Those of us working the show typically put in 12 to 14 hours per day,
>> for about sixteen consecutive days. We try to blow off steam and have
>> some fun in the evenings. Having a laugh does not involve putting our
>> friends in any type of danger. I'm sorry that some List members were
>> offended by the image.
>>
>> IMO, the 2010 gem show is considerably more interesting than a debate
>> about firearms.
>>
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Geoff N.
>>
>> www.aerolite.org
>> www.meteoritemen.com
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
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>
>
>
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> 07:35:00
> 



From arizonakeith at cox.net  Fri Feb  5 02:53:03 2010
From: arizonakeith at cox.net (Arizona Keith)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 00:53:03 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] IMCA Dinner photos and others added.
Message-ID: <D7D3EDA4AB4D4245B9A883F4B2AEF6BE@Keith2>

Hello List

Here are some photos taken at the Fourth Annual IMCA Dinner.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonaviking/sets/72157623231044497/

Slide show
http://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonaviking/sets/72157623231044497/show/

Also added a few photos to the set of photos
http://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonaviking/sets/72157623154261599/

We all had a great time, Enjoy

Arizona Keith
Chandler



From minador at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  5 03:21:03 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 00:21:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002041812x75189d6cqe8b1654b3a44cbc6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ddd37461002032003t7e174349hbeda2c4effbdbaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<e51421551002040631i78fb98acg5196995fa8adda80@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ddd37461002040953k2be95d1pc6998d13ef731fb4@mail.gmail.com>
	<93aaac891002041344ge1b243bxfae684f7ce12a57f@mail.gmail.com>
	<5ddd37461002041655rb9a9746ve52b34207b18d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<e51421551002041812x75189d6cqe8b1654b3a44cbc6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <352212.61100.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hey Mike,

Sorry to hear about the terrible problems you guys are going through.? I shouldn't have gotten nasty with you as well, so sorry about that.? Best wishes from Tucson (Vail).

Mark Bowling



----- Original Message ----
From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
To: Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com>
Cc: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 7:12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Firearms related posts on a meteorite list

Hi Folks,

This is my last post on this subject - I promise.

This train wreck of negativity over the gun photo has gone too far.? I
played a role in that, and for that I apologize.

There are deep divisions in this country that have been encouraged by
those who will profit from keeping the populace divided.? This country
is the most polarized that I have ever seen, and people who would
normally get along fine are at each other's throats at the drop of a
dime.? That is what is fueling a sizeable portion of the hostility
going on right now, it's not just the guns.? The gun provided a spark
that lit the pool of gasoline that was already there.? I posted some
things that I should not have.? I have strong beliefs and those burst
forth in a couple of frustrated posts that were directed more at an
idea than a person or a gun.

Robert Ward, I apologize for calling you "son" and speaking in a
condescending fashion.? I don't know you and I was lashing out at
something you represent (in my mind) and not you.? I grew up in the
deep south, surrounded by "rednecks".? My father was a redneck.? I
know that calling another man "son" is like a challenge to one's
manhood and it is condescending.? I respect your contributions to
meteoritics and I respect your meteorite hunting skills.? You are a
very underrated hunter and a fair dealer.? I bought a Brenham thin
slice from you a while back on eBay and it is still one of my favorite
pieces.? I have no beef with you personally, unless this episode
created one, which would be regrettable.

For those who may care, here is why I lashed out - my wife is very
sick with chronic health conditions.? I will not go into all of the
long details, but believe me when I say it has been the most difficult
period of our lives.? I almost lost her and sitting in ICU watching
your soulmate fight for life will make a man do some long and hard
thinking.? We don't have health insurance and cannot afford health
insurance because her condition is pre-existing and no insurance
company will touch her with a 10-foot pole, or if they will, the
premiums are so astronomical that they are impossible.? We have never
taken a dime in public assistance and the reason we had no insurance
when her condition arose, is because we both quit full-time management
jobs (and good insurance) to be caregivers for her elderly father who
has Alzheimers - something we did out of love to keep him from going
into a nursing home.? (a fate that a highly-decorated WWII veteran
does not deserve)? So we lost our insurance while we were doing the
right thing - and then my wife got sick.? Where is this going?? All of
the people who are erecting roadblocks to my wife getting affordable
insurance (and thus access to decent healthcare that isn't an
emergency room last resort) are people from the
right/conservative/republican side of the political and social
spectrum.? So, I am developing a big chip on my shoulder towards the
political right because they are, in essence, prolonging my wife's
suffering by preventing meaningful healthcare reform.? And all of the
arguments against it center around money - which doesn't mean a darn
thing to me if I lose my wife and soulmate.? All of the money in the
world won't bring her back if she dies for lack of medical care.
There are other layers to this situation, but I think this explains
the bulk of my frustration.? If you are blessed with good health and
your loved ones are blessed with good health - then wake up each day
be thankful for it - because it is truly a blessing and it can
suddenly be revoked without warning or reason.? This is truly the most
difficult part of my life and my wife's life and it is very
frustrating to be denied medical? care because we lack money and
insurance - and we fall between the cracks in the system.? It is a
nightmare that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

So, when I see/hear/read people from the right-side of the political
spectrum, a surge of hostility, resentment, and frustration wells up
in me. (which is not a good thing, I know).? After I shot my mouth
off, I got a flood replies (some public, some private) and I latched
onto your's because it was the first one I clicked on that disagreed
with me.? Then I shot my mouth off again, and the cycle continued.
And now it has become a major distraction to the List and it has
fostered division in the meteorite circles.? That was not my intent,
but it was clearly the result of my words and I should have foresaw
that.

To Michael Johnson - I used the same poor judgement that I accused you
of - by posting my frustrations to the List.? I should have known it
would stir the pot and fan the flames.? I honestly don't believe you
"trolled" the List with your posting.? It's not a photo I would have
selected to post, but that doesn't mean you exercised poor judgement,
just because I didn't agree with it.

To the pro-gun people - I am one of you.? I grew up with guns in a
good ole boy family of Arkansas, Mississippi, and Missouri cotton
farmers.? I strongly believe in the 2nd amendment of the US
Constitution.? I used to collect guns and I have owned more than I can
count.? I currently own two - a sidearm and a shotgun.? For a while I
reloaded my own ammo.? I also strongly believe that guns should be
treated with the utmost respect and that gun owners should be more
considerate of others who are wary of what guns represent to them.
Some people are terrified of guns.? Some people have had negative
experiences with them.? Some people come from cultures where guns are
viewed in a very different light.? As a gun owner, I would never
display, carry or brandish my firearm in front of mixed company or
strangers.? As a cigar smoker, I take my cigar outside to enjoy a
smoke, because I respect the rights of others not to suffer my toxic
smoke.? I pick up or dispose of the ashes and the butt.? It's not a
matter of being pro-gun, pro-tobacco, or anti-gun, anti-tobacco - it's
a matter of awareness and consideration for other people - people who
may be good decent nice persons, but happen to disagree with me
politicially or socially.? This is a global meteorite List with
members from a wide range of cultures, all brought together by a
common love of space rocks.? It is entirely predictable that anything
that is vaguely political or controversial is surely going to offend
someone in a global forum.? It doesn't mean we should be bland,
vanilla and "PC", it means we should use our opportunities to joke
around carefully.? In a perfect world, it wouldn't be that way.? But,
on any unmoderated internet list/forum, one must be extra careful in
order to maintain decorum.? I don't know Michael Johnson personally,
but I know enough that I was surprised by his selection of the photo,
because I knew "brown-chondrite" was going to hit the fan because of
it.

We all (those on all sides of the political spectrum) just want to
raise good kids in a good and decent world and have the freedom to
make our own decisions and choose our paths in life.? We all agree on
that.? But to many people, guns are a symbol that represent those
things being torn away.? And to many others, guns represent the
primary defense against those things being torn away.? As long as we
are in mixed company (which is exactly what this List is), then we
should exercise a bit of "PC", just to be on the safe side and prevent
flareups like this.? This necessity is a part of the global culture
that the internet is, and it should be a default consideration given
to others.

I failed to exercise that consideration and I reacted negatively,
which injected negativity into the situation and made matters worse.
I have my beliefs that are strong and have nothing to do with
meteorites - I should keep those in private and off the List.

I love meteorites - more than rationally so.? I don't want to
contribute negativity to meteorites in any way.? So I regret that and
apologize for it.? I have done this in the past.? I hope not to do it
again in the future.

So there you have it - my apology and concession rant.? I hope it is
more positive in effect that my previous two posts.? And I hope the
next posts are about meteorites.

Best regards and happy huntings,

MikeG







On 2/4/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey meteoritekid, may I suggest that you "unplug" for a while, go
> outside, and get some real world experience, perhaps then you can base
> your arguments off something more substantial than than charts,
> graphs, and statistics put together by some professor in a office
> somewhere that you have never met. You said "the redneck crap" "is a
> culture that people tend to view negatively", glad to know how you
> feel about my culture and that you view people like me as second rate
> citizens, that is not very tolerant for such a leftist. You must live
> in a scary world.
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Mike, Robert, All,
>>
>>> Mike G. I would like to point out that Michael Johnson has has made a
>>> huge impact on this community, he tries his best to represent people
>>> that are from all walks of life in the meteorite world, for you to
>>> target him as using "poor judgement" is insulting, that is just YOUR
>>> opinion, not fact as stated by you.
>>
>> And he's fully entitled to that opinion.? And sometimes people who are
>> in positions of power and who have done good things make mistakes.? It
>> happens.? Happened.
>>
>>> I am not your "son" and please
>>> correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall seeing you at any state
>>> shoots, ranges, or having read your scores, or article's in any
>>> firearms publications. Are you a gunsmith? Did you ever shoot
>>> professionally? Do you have a piece of paper on the wall that says you
>>> know what you are talking about?
>>
>> It doesn't take firing a gun, making a gun, or being trained to use a
>> gun to know more about statistics and what they say about
>> gun ownership.? That's like saying a pyro should be well-versed in
>> fire safety and know that starting fires is dangerous, and probably
>> shouldn't be done.
>>
>>> You say that it is? incorrect to
>>> state that "it is people, not guns that kill" Show me one case of a
>>> firearm autonomously 'jumping up and killing someone'. A person is
>>> involved 100% percent of the time.
>>
>> And a gun is involved in 100% of firearm deaths.? And there are a lot
>> of those.
>>
>>> toting around grandpa's squirrel
>>> gun, and telling stories at your local bar does not mean you know
>>> it all, but it is a good indicator of your mindset. Robert.
>>
>> Sorry, I'm late for the lesbian tree-hugger benefit.? Gotta get there
>> before the sun goes down.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
>>> <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Robert and List,
>>>>
>>>> Ok everyone, this is getting tiresome.
>>>>
>>>> We are all overlooking the obvious - it was poor judgement on Michael
>>>> Johnson's part to post that photo.? Period.? Regardless of one's views
>>>> on guns, this List is global and that photo was bound to stir up
>>>> trouble - it doesn't take a psychic or mind reader to know that.
>>>> Posting that photo was essentially a troll - perhaps not intentional,
>>>> but the effect was the same.
>>>>
>>>> It should be common sense not to post controversial material on a public
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>> You say you are a "expert in the gun field" - Listen son, I was toting
>>>> around guns before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye.? There is
>>>> nothing you can tell me about guns that I don't already know and I
>>>> have forgotten more about guns than you will ever hope to know.? So go
>>>> take your passionate "it's people not guns that kill" defense and call
>>>> it in to your favorite right-wing AM-radio talk show - I'm sure you'll
>>>> have a eager audience of Rush Limbaugh fans to agree with you.
>>>>
>>>> This is not a matter of pushing delete when you see something you
>>>> don't like - it's called "ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY" - not
>>>> "POINTING GUNS AT METEORITE PEOPLE PICTURE OF THE DAY".? Can you not
>>>> see that the photo could have been completely unexpected to many and
>>>> they were caught off-guard by it?
>>>>
>>>> It was fine to stage to photo, it was perfectly good to have fun, it
>>>> was fine to share the photo with friends.? It was poor judgement to
>>>> post that photo to the Meteorite List.
>>>>
>>>> Now excuse me, I have to go host a benefit for retired lesbian tree
>>>> huggers at my solar-energy-powered gay bar.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards and happy hunting,
>>>>
>>>> MikeG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/3/10, Robert Ward <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I spent three years training at the finest firearms institution on the
>>>>> planet learning about every aspect of the industry, and even designing
>>>>> and manufacturing my own firearms models, I am an expert in the field,
>>>>> and I assure you they are not "killing tools" and "assault rifles"
>>>>> when they leave the factory. They are pieces of metal and plastic,
>>>>> People do the killing, guns are inanimate objects. So Mr. G, I have
>>>>> been involved with firearms my entire life, ask my friends if they
>>>>> think I am a morbid person. You say we should not offend our European
>>>>> friends with our rights and traditions? Growing up I spent my summers
>>>>> in Africa, and I saw things that offended my that are far to morbid to
>>>>> mention here, I did not offend them by sharing my thoughts of these
>>>>> customs, I looked the other way and left, if that pic offends you push
>>>>> delete. I noticed a post that mentioned a statistic from the FBI
>>>>> website, 9,369 firearms related murders in the U.S. in 2002, another
>>>>> statistic to compare this to is the great genocide in Rwanda, 800,000
>>>>> murdered with machete's. I assure you, in the right hands some sharp
>>>>> Chinga, or Seymchan slices that are for sale in several rooms in
>>>>> Tucson could dispatch one's life just as fast as a firearm. Peter
>>>>> Davidson, those who know me would probably agree that I am someone
>>>>> that could be pigeon holed into some Hick-Redneck category, Peter, I
>>>>> am not offended by your prejudice, I am proud of my heritage growing
>>>>> up on farms and ranches, oh yeah, I am a NRA life member too. I trust
>>>>> that all of you that are so offended by this pic do not subscribe to
>>>>> cable, or satellite television services, nor do you attend movies with
>>>>> "morbid guns" in them. Grow up, just click delete, and spend this much
>>>>> time finding some useful input for the METEORITE LIST. Maybe I will
>>>>> post a pic of my cats high up on one of my collection pieces so the
>>>>> PETA people can have there turn. Robert Ward
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Mike Gilmer
>>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From lintonius at earthlink.net  Fri Feb  5 04:21:56 2010
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 01:21:56 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Large California Fireball last night
References: <5ddd37461002041659p1dd54478nc416041b39d80bcc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <845D5D8BD9C04F63B09453594D1DD984@LintoniusLaptop>

Hi Robert.
I'm still in Tucson, but I checked with a friend in Bakersfield, 100 miles 
south of Fresno. He said he hadn't heard anything about it on the local 
news. Sounds interesting though. I hope we learn more.
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Ward" <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:59 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Large California Fireball last night


>A Fireball was reported by an observer South of Fresno last night in
> the early evening, the fireball was low on the horizon, East of the
> observer, traveling in a Northerly direction and broke into many
> pieces. I checked with Yuba City Sentinel, nothing. Any other reports
> out there?   I am on my way back to Tucson, look forward to seeing
> everyone at the party!  Robert.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2667 - Release Date: 02/04/10 
07:35:00



From lintonius at earthlink.net  Fri Feb  5 04:21:56 2010
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 01:21:56 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Large California Fireball last night
References: <5ddd37461002041659p1dd54478nc416041b39d80bcc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A0DF5E0CAD3940979851BB6BC16E5734@LintoniusLaptop>

Hi Robert.
I'm still in Tucson, but I checked with a friend in Bakersfield, 100 miles 
south of Fresno. He said he hadn't heard anything about it on the local 
news. Sounds interesting though. I hope we learn more.
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Ward" <ironfromthesky.com at gmail.com>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:59 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Large California Fireball last night


>A Fireball was reported by an observer South of Fresno last night in
> the early evening, the fireball was low on the horizon, East of the
> observer, traveling in a Northerly direction and broke into many
> pieces. I checked with Yuba City Sentinel, nothing. Any other reports
> out there?   I am on my way back to Tucson, look forward to seeing
> everyone at the party!  Robert.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2667 - Release Date: 02/04/10 
07:35:00



From meteoritics at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 05:21:31 2010
From: meteoritics at gmail.com (Bill Hall)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 02:21:31 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Value and the Media
Message-ID: <883a36d31002050221o241ae05ah97b7ba94258f977f@mail.gmail.com>

Just for the record,
                                I purchased a thick slice of the
Brenham pictured in the LA Times, and threw it in a glass case without
any preservation at all. I do have a small desiccant bag in the case,
but this piece doesn't have a single speck of rust on it 3 years
later. Ruben saw it last year in Quartszite and stuck it in his video
if you care to see it...

not all Brenham are
rusters.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=001vxtTlBEs


                                                          Bill Hall


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Fri Feb  5 07:17:33 2010
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 07:17:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-entry break up/ burn up
Message-ID: <25451685.1265372253977.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hello List,

After a get evening of meal fellowship at the IMCA dinner in Tucson...thanks in no small part to Maria Haas..I found this post online that shows a re-entry at cosmic speeds of 10' metal space craft quite analigious to a meteor. Note the way a strewn field is produced..  Of course these bits and pieces fell into the Pacific Ocean.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b35_1265311688

Having avery nice time at the Tucson show. 

Count Deiro 


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Fri Feb  5 08:15:41 2010
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:15:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-entry break up/ burn up
Message-ID: <19606944.1265375741366.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Errors... I meant to say "great" instead of "get", and that "Jules Vern" garbage truck was 10 meters long. Too many beers.

Count Deiro

-----Original Message-----
>From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
>Sent: Feb 5, 2010 7:17 AM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-entry break up/ burn up
>
>Hello List,
>
>After a get evening of meal fellowship at the IMCA dinner in Tucson...thanks in no small part to Maria Haas..I found this post online that shows a re-entry at cosmic speeds of 10' metal space craft quite analigious to a meteor. Note the way a strewn field is produced..  Of course these bits and pieces fell into the Pacific Ocean.
>
>http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b35_1265311688
>
>Having avery nice time at the Tucson show. 
>
>Count Deiro 
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From meteoriteshow at free.fr  Fri Feb  5 08:22:27 2010
From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (meteoriteshow at free.fr)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:22:27 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday
Message-ID: <1265376147.4b6c1b930433e@imp.free.fr>

Dear Fellow Listees,

Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow

They include:

1- Ain Ouinet (unclass.) CV3 - 20.7g endcut
Endcut weighing 20.7g, dimensions ~33x24x22mm.
Diplays sharply defined chondrules including 2 HUGE ones and beautiful CAIs.
ONLY ENDCUT OFFERED SO FAR...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330395838570

2- Al Haggounia 001 PRIM. AUB - 8.4g partslice
Partslice #013 weighing 8.4g, dimensions 64x25x2.7mm.
Cut in one of the freshest framents of Al Haggounia 001
Displays a fair grey matrix showing how EXTREMELY FRESH the fragment is.
Shipped in a display box
NO BID YET!!! STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330395839253

3- NWA 052 (Kem-Kem) L5 - 12.9g partslice
Partslice weighing 12.9g, Dimensions: 72x8x7mm
Displays THICK FUSION CRUST on one end (see pictures).
STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330395839845

4- SAH 02500 L3 - 125g "MONOLITH"
"Monolith" weighing 125g, dimensions: 70x57x26mm.
Enduct glued on a plexiglass stand for display (no varnish).
Typical structure of SAH 02500 diplaying 2 lithologies, grey & dark inclusions &
sharp chondrules with big metal flakes.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330395840167

5- SAHARAN OC #4170 - 1188g MAIN MASS
Main Mass, Semi - Individual weighing 1188g - ~127x102x60mm.
Covered by relics of Fusion Crust with regmaglypts
The cut surface shows shock veins.
Probably a H Chondrite (from attraction by a magnet and chondrules' size - small
-)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330395841436

6- ZAG H3-6 - 67.9g -10 Frags - WITNESSED FALL!
10 Fragments (ten pieces - see picture), total weight 67.9g.
Some of them with FUSION CRUST.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330395841631

Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!!
Kind regards,

Frederic Beroud
http://www.meteoriteshow.com
IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/)


From cdtucson at cox.net  Fri Feb  5 08:44:57 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 8:44:57 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
 rock'
In-Reply-To: <367707.10894.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100205084457.NAUJ5.552175.imail@fed1rmwml35>

Shawn, 
This is very weak for these arguments. It only says this;

United States of America. A find is owned by the landowner.
A find on federal government property is owned by
the Department of the Interior but may be acquired by the
Smithsonian Institution.

The term here would be "Fall" Not "Find". Where does a fall fit in? Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Hello Listernites
> ?
> Here is a link about the laws of ownership on meteorites.?I had posted?it a?few days ago, which?Ill post again because it looks like it?will be a good reference to this topic on ownership. I hope the owner/s get a good lawyer because it looks like the Smithsonian isn't leaving anything behind for the public because the Smithsonian has the vacuum bag in their possession that wasused to clean up the mess from the Lorton meteorite.
> ?
> Shawn Alan
> ?
> http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2001/pdf/5150.pdf 
> ?
> [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
> cdtucson at cox.net cdtucson at cox.net 
> Thu Feb 4 23:40:08 EST 2010 
> 
> 
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock' 
> Next message: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock' 
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 
> 
> 
> Bob, 
> Thank you for the response. That is fair to say but the problem with Federal land is that it is illegal to pick the stuff up without a permit. So, the collection has to be for the government. if you don't pick it up it will rot and then nobody will ever get a chance at it. During the mapping of Gold Basin. Nobody wanted to bother to collect the material on into the federal land because they could not keep it. 100% of the meteorites found on Federal area of the gold basin strewnfield had to be given to the smithsonian museum. If you look at the map it is very much lighter on the federal owned section. Today you will get into big trouble if caught hunting there. 
> But when on state land you are allowed to pick stuff up. that's all I'm saying. Why do they differ? State land meteorites get picked up and preserved. Federal meteorites get to rot. There must still be tons of meteorites yet to be found but never will be due to these stupid laws. Carl 
> -- 
> Carl or Debbie Esparza 
> Meteoritemax 
> 
> 
> ---- Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com> wrote: 
> 
> > Hi Carl, 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed. 
> 
> > > land. The fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found 
> 
> > > on Fed. land all went to the smithsonian. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > If you don't want the Fed Gov to get the treasures that are found on Fed 
> 
> > land, who should get them? Even you said that the treasures "belong to all 
> 
> > of us", but if you find something and take it home (and either keep it or 
> 
> > sell it), the rest of us don't get to share in the ownership or joy of what 
> 
> > you found. So then that is not fair because it should belong to all of us, 
> 
> > right? So, the Gov puts the treasure in a museum so all of us can see it. 
> 
> > All of the people now have a partial ownership/interest in it, not just one 
> 
> > or two people. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > BTW, I don't work for the Gov. and didn't get paid by anyone to say 
> 
> > anything. :-) This is just what I think this law is trying to do. I could 
> 
> > be wrong. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Regards, 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Bob 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> 
> > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 
> 
> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of 
> 
> > cdtucson at cox.net 
> 
> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:45 PM 
> 
> > To: Adam; George Blahun Jr 
> 
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's 
> 
> > rock' 
> 
> > 
> 
> > George. 
> 
> > Just one moment here. What if the rightful owner of the glasses never claims 
> 
> > 
> 
> > them? you have no idea who left them. Could have been a visitor asking for 
> 
> > directions. Who owns them? The landlord??? Nobody is not the right answer 
> 
> > here. 
> 
> > Also, Nobody wants your tree but the key is that it is yours! 
> 
> > What if you are leasing the tree in a business that sells the fruit? Who is 
> 
> > responsible then? The owner of the tree or you because you are in legal 
> 
> > control 
> 
> > of it. Just asking. 
> 
> > In the case of the contractor. Well, he did discover the treasure inside the 
> 
> > 
> 
> > wall. What most would have done is haul it off into the truck as he was 
> 
> > contracted to do and never mention it ( haul away the debris) . What he did 
> 
> > do 
> 
> > is tell the home owner and she wanted all of it. This case ended in all of 
> 
> > her 
> 
> > relatives learning of it and the sum was divided many ways between all of 
> 
> > them. 
> 
> > She got greedy and lost more than she gained . I love this case because 
> 
> > greed 
> 
> > did not prevail. Her greed cost her mucho dineros . As a side note the 
> 
> > contractor did the right thing but it came down to. "No good deed goes 
> 
> > unpunished". As much as I hate to say that. 
> 
> > I was an Architect/contractor and I know most of my subs would have simply 
> 
> > hauled away the envelope with the rest of the debris, medicine cabinet and 
> 
> > all. 
> 
> > Plus she was lucky the envelope had her relatives name on it because it 
> 
> > might 
> 
> > have belonged to a previous home owner. all of this played out in court. 
> 
> > which 
> 
> > is why I want to see this in court. 
> 
> > I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed. land. 
> 
> > The 
> 
> > fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found on Fed. land all 
> 
> > went 
> 
> > to the smithsonian. That is why the strewn field looks so bottom heavy. Take 
> 
> > 
> 
> > care and thank you.. Carl 
> 
> > -- 
> 
> > Carl or Debbie Esparza 
> 
> > Meteoritemax 
> 
> > 
> 
> > -- 
> 
> > Carl or Debbie Esparza 
> 
> > Meteoritemax 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > ---- George Blahun Jr <ks1u at att.net> wrote: 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > Carl: 
> 
> > > Hello and thanks for your comments and point of view. I actually 
> 
> > didn't intend for this to be taken as cut and dry. I do come down on the 
> 
> > side of the land owners, but my reference to the EM Spectrum implies that 
> 
> > there is always another point of view. If you were unfortunate enough to be 
> 
> > hit by a meteorite on someone else's property, I believe you'd be entitled 
> 
> > to damages for your injury and pain and suffering. If you were walking on 
> 
> > my property here in CT and one of my black walnut trees fell on you, you 
> 
> > could (and should) file a claim against my home owners policy, but I don't 
> 
> > think you'd get to keep the black walnut tree which is probably worth about 
> 
> > 10K for the wood. 
> 
> > > In your example of the dollar bill, a fairly insignificant amount if 
> 
> > you can afford to see a doctor, the dollar probably goes to the finder. But 
> 
> > if you drop your Maui Jim sunglasses there, you still have the right to them 
> 
> > and neither the finder nor the doctor nor the landlord owns them. Of course 
> 
> > most communities have a procedure for claiming a lost and found, unlike a 
> 
> > space rock. This series of events changes if the object which hits you is 
> 
> > from a military satellite. They'd deny any responsibility but want it back 
> 
> > anyhow. 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > There was a court case recently where a contractor was removing a wall 
> 
> > in a house and found a bunch of money which had been hidden in there for 
> 
> > decades. The contractor tried to claim it using the old legal defense of 
> 
> > "finders keepers losers weepers" but the courts said, no. 
> 
> > > I guess we all have a slight bias when interpreting the law and what 
> 
> > constitutes ownership. This no doubt determines which side of this issue we 
> 
> > each come down on. 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > George 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > ______________________________________________ 
> 
> > > Visit the Archives at 
> 
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 
> 
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list 
> 
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
> 
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
> 
> > 
> 
> > ______________________________________________ 
> 
> > Visit the Archives at 
> 
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 
> 
> > Meteorite-list mailing list 
> 
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
> 
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
> 
> > 
> 
> > No virus found in this incoming message. 
> 
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> 
> > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 02/04/10 
> 
> > 00:35:00 
> 
> > 
> 
> > ______________________________________________ 
> 
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 
> 
> > Meteorite-list mailing list 
> 
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
> 
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock' 
> Next message: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock' 
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 
> 
> 
> More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list
> 
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> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From bandk at chorus.net  Fri Feb  5 10:34:17 2010
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:34:17 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] FOR SALE: L@@K ON EBAY #120526997613 (12)
	Different Meteorites in (15) displays/packages!!
Message-ID: <779296575855465A8495127D1A4CB09B@owner55652f88b>

Hi Everyone,
Apparently eBay screwed up my item number last night. My Meteorite lot that 
I posted last night can be seen on eBay now by going to item #120526997613.

For some reason the item number has changed overnight----weird.

Anyway---PLEASE take a L@@K!!
Thank You and have a great weekend.
Kirk......:-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Becky and Kirk" <bandk at chorus.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:29 PM
Subject: FOR SALE: L@@K ON EBAY (12) Different Meteorites in (15) 
displays/packages!!


> Hi Everyone!
> Hope you are all doing well. PLEASE take a second and see my NICE 
> Meteorite lot up for sale on ebay. Something for everyone including a 
> micro DHOFAR 081 Lunar piece in a gem case w/ID Card!
>
> Ebay item #120527000777
>
> Thanks & have a great weekend!!
> Kirk......:-)
>
>
> 



From photophlow at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  5 10:39:20 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 07:39:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
Message-ID: <481390.5736.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Carl and Listers,

The example I gave might be half weak in your eyes, but the fact of the matter is that it states that the landowner is entitled to the meteorite. 

Now the answer to your question about who is entitled to the fall in question and not the find is weak. What is in question is the ownership of the meteorite not the fall of the meteorite. Can you please give me an example of someone owning the fall of the meteorite? 

A meteorite comes into question of ownership once it has impacted the the surface or there of not while its in flight.

Shawn Alan 





Forwarded Message: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'Friday, February 5, 2010 6:44 AMFrom: cdtucson at cox.netTo: "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>, "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>Shawn, 
This is very weak for these arguments. It only says this;

United States of America. A find is owned by the landowner.
A find on federal government property is owned by
the Department of the Interior but may be acquired by the
Smithsonian Institution.

The term here would be "Fall" Not "Find". Where does a fall fit in? Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Hello Listernites
>  
> Here is a link about the laws of ownership on meteorites. I had posted it a few days ago, which Ill post again because it looks like it will be a good reference to this topic on ownership. I hope the owner/s get a good lawyer because it looks like the Smithsonian isn't leaving anything behind for the public because the Smithsonian has the vacuum bag in their possession that wasused to clean up the mess from the Lorton meteorite.
>  
> Shawn Alan
>  
> http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2001/pdf/5150.pdf 
>  
> [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
> cdtucson at cox.net cdtucson at cox.net 
> Thu Feb 4 23:40:08 EST 2010 
> 
> 
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock' 
> Next message: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock' 
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 
> 
> 
> Bob, 
> Thank you for the response. That is fair to say but the problem with Federal land is that it is illegal to pick the stuff up without a permit. So, the collection has to be for the government. if you don't pick it up it will rot and then nobody will ever get a chance at it. During the mapping of Gold Basin. Nobody wanted to bother to collect the material on into the federal land because they could not keep it. 100% of the meteorites found on Federal area of the gold basin strewnfield had to be given to the smithsonian museum. If you look at the map it is very much lighter on the federal owned section. Today you will get into big trouble if caught hunting there. 
> But when on state land you are allowed to pick stuff up. that's all I'm saying. Why do they differ? State land meteorites get picked up and preserved. Federal meteorites get to rot. There must still be tons of meteorites yet to be found but never will be due to these stupid laws. Carl 
> -- 
> Carl or Debbie Esparza 
> Meteoritemax 
> 
> 
> ---- Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com> wrote: 
> 
> > Hi Carl, 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed. 
> 
> > > land. The fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found 
> 
> > > on Fed. land all went to the smithsonian. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > If you don't want the Fed Gov to get the treasures that are found on Fed 
> 
> > land, who should get them? Even you said that the treasures "belong to all 
> 
> > of us", but if you find something and take it home (and either keep it or 
> 
> > sell it), the rest of us don't get to share in the ownership or joy of what 
> 
> > you found. So then that is not fair because it should belong to all of us, 
> 
> > right? So, the Gov puts the treasure in a museum so all of us can see it. 
> 
> > All of the people now have a partial ownership/interest in it, not just one 
> 
> > or two people. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > BTW, I don't work for the Gov. and didn't get paid by anyone to say 
> 
> > anything. :-) This is just what I think this law is trying to do. I could 
> 
> > be wrong. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Regards, 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Bob 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> 
> > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 
> 
> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of 
> 
> > cdtucson at cox.net 
> 
> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:45 PM 
> 
> > To: Adam; George Blahun Jr 
> 
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's 
> 
> > rock' 
> 
> > 
> 
> > George. 
> 
> > Just one moment here. What if the rightful owner of the glasses never claims 
> 
> > 
> 
> > them? you have no idea who left them. Could have been a visitor asking for 
> 
> > directions. Who owns them? The landlord??? Nobody is not the right answer 
> 
> > here. 
> 
> > Also, Nobody wants your tree but the key is that it is yours! 
> 
> > What if you are leasing the tree in a business that sells the fruit? Who is 
> 
> > responsible then? The owner of the tree or you because you are in legal 
> 
> > control 
> 
> > of it. Just asking. 
> 
> > In the case of the contractor. Well, he did discover the treasure inside the 
> 
> > 
> 
> > wall. What most would have done is haul it off into the truck as he was 
> 
> > contracted to do and never mention it ( haul away the debris) . What he did 
> 
> > do 
> 
> > is tell the home owner and she wanted all of it. This case ended in all of 
> 
> > her 
> 
> > relatives learning of it and the sum was divided many ways between all of 
> 
> > them. 
> 
> > She got greedy and lost more than she gained . I love this case because 
> 
> > greed 
> 
> > did not prevail. Her greed cost her mucho dineros . As a side note the 
> 
> > contractor did the right thing but it came down to. "No good deed goes 
> 
> > unpunished". As much as I hate to say that. 
> 
> > I was an Architect/contractor and I know most of my subs would have simply 
> 
> > hauled away the envelope with the rest of the debris, medicine cabinet and 
> 
> > all. 
> 
> > Plus she was lucky the envelope had her relatives name on it because it 
> 
> > might 
> 
> > have belonged to a previous home owner. all of this played out in court. 
> 
> > which 
> 
> > is why I want to see this in court. 
> 
> > I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed. land. 
> 
> > The 
> 
> > fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found on Fed. land all 
> 
> > went 
> 
> > to the smithsonian. That is why the strewn field looks so bottom heavy. Take 
> 
> > 
> 
> > care and thank you.. Carl 
> 
> > -- 
> 
> > Carl or Debbie Esparza 
> 
> > Meteoritemax 
> 
> > 
> 
> > -- 
> 
> > Carl or Debbie Esparza 
> 
> > Meteoritemax 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > ---- George Blahun Jr <ks1u at att.net> wrote: 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > Carl: 
> 
> > > Hello and thanks for your comments and point of view. I actually 
> 
> > didn't intend for this to be taken as cut and dry. I do come down on the 
> 
> > side of the land owners, but my reference to the EM Spectrum implies that 
> 
> > there is always another point of view. If you were unfortunate enough to be 
> 
> > hit by a meteorite on someone else's property, I believe you'd be entitled 
> 
> > to damages for your injury and pain and suffering. If you were walking on 
> 
> > my property here in CT and one of my black walnut trees fell on you, you 
> 
> > could (and should) file a claim against my home owners policy, but I don't 
> 
> > think you'd get to keep the black walnut tree which is probably worth about 
> 
> > 10K for the wood. 
> 
> > > In your example of the dollar bill, a fairly insignificant amount if 
> 
> > you can afford to see a doctor, the dollar probably goes to the finder. But 
> 
> > if you drop your Maui Jim sunglasses there, you still have the right to them 
> 
> > and neither the finder nor the doctor nor the landlord owns them. Of course 
> 
> > most communities have a procedure for claiming a lost and found, unlike a 
> 
> > space rock. This series of events changes if the object which hits you is 
> 
> > from a military satellite. They'd deny any responsibility but want it back 
> 
> > anyhow. 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > There was a court case recently where a contractor was removing a wall 
> 
> > in a house and found a bunch of money which had been hidden in there for 
> 
> > decades. The contractor tried to claim it using the old legal defense of 
> 
> > "finders keepers losers weepers" but the courts said, no. 
> 
> > > I guess we all have a slight bias when interpreting the law and what 
> 
> > constitutes ownership. This no doubt determines which side of this issue we 
> 
> > each come down on. 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > George 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > ______________________________________________ 
> 
> > > Visit the Archives at 
> 
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 
> 
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list 
> 
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
> 
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
> 
> > 
> 
> > ______________________________________________ 
> 
> > Visit the Archives at 
> 
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 
> 
> > Meteorite-list mailing list 
> 
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
> 
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
> 
> > 
> 
> > No virus found in this incoming message. 
> 
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> 
> > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 02/04/10 
> 
> > 00:35:00 
> 
> > 
> 
> > ______________________________________________ 
> 
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 
> 
> > Meteorite-list mailing list 
> 
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
> 
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock' 
> Next message: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock' 
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 
> 
> 
> More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list
> 
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From cdtucson at cox.net  Fri Feb  5 10:42:05 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:42:05 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
 rock'
In-Reply-To: <2557702951265382260247@fastmobile.com>
Message-ID: <20100205104205.R02Z5.553445.imail@fed1rmwml35>

Shawn,
As silly as it sounds,  there are people who believe there is a difference between a "fall" and a"find". And although these seven words (A "find" is owned by the landowner)  might define ownership of a find. It does not address the ownership of a fall. I think the Hodges case did address this issue but often times the courts do reverse previous decisions.For an example of real property ownership;
In real estate,  property is described based on ownership boundaries. For example;
 In ownership of a condominium you really only do own the air space ( sometimes they are high rise buildings). You own the paint on the wall but not the wall itself. You really don't own outright any real property (land) . The association which you are a part of owns the land but not a single individual. 
In a town home you do own the inside half of the walls that separate the units but not the exterior of the building or the roof. 
I guess we need to see the actual statute to see if it addresses falls or not to be sure and it might be more than seven words long.
But, lets say for argument sake that this meteorite never hits land. This is the case with Lorton but what if it hit a car parked on land and remained 100% within the car? What has the land owner to do with this? It never hit land. This is why air space comes into play. 
In the Lorton case it never hit land either. This makes it complicated. The doctors actually did not find the meteorite. It found them. 
Again, a find is clear but a fall is not. IMO At least not clear based on a weak seven words used above. Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- photophlow at yahoo.com wrote: 
> Carl and Listers,
> 
> The example I gave might be half weak in your eyes, but the fact of the matter is that it states that the landowner is entitled to the meteorite. 
> 
> Now the answer to your question about who is entitled to the fall in question and not the find is weak. What is in question is the ownership of the meteorite not the fall of the meteorite. Can you please give me an example of someone owning the fall of the meteorite? 
> 
> A meteorite comes into question of ownership once it has impacted the the surface or there of not while its in flight.
> 
> Shawn Alan


From bandk at chorus.net  Fri Feb  5 10:43:11 2010
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:43:11 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] FOR SALE: L@@K ON EBAY #120526997613 (12)
	Different Meteorites in (15) displays/packages!!
References: <779296575855465A8495127D1A4CB09B@owner55652f88b>
Message-ID: <77B640996D384CF8AC776F0C0C19BADC@owner55652f88b>

Prices have now been adjusted for my lot on ebay.
Please check again!
Kirk.........

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Becky and Kirk" <bandk at chorus.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:34 AM
Subject: FOR SALE: L@@K ON EBAY #120526997613 (12) Different Meteorites in 
(15) displays/packages!!


> Hi Everyone,
> Apparently eBay screwed up my item number last night. My Meteorite lot 
> that I posted last night can be seen on eBay now by going to item 
> #120526997613.
>
> For some reason the item number has changed overnight----weird.
>
> Anyway---PLEASE take a L@@K!!
> Thank You and have a great weekend.
> Kirk......:-)
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Becky and Kirk" <bandk at chorus.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:29 PM
> Subject: FOR SALE: L@@K ON EBAY (12) Different Meteorites in (15) 
> displays/packages!!
>
>
>> Hi Everyone!
>> Hope you are all doing well. PLEASE take a second and see my NICE 
>> Meteorite lot up for sale on ebay. Something for everyone including a 
>> micro DHOFAR 081 Lunar piece in a gem case w/ID Card!
>>
>> Ebay item #120527000777
>>
>> Thanks & have a great weekend!!
>> Kirk......:-)
>>
>>
>>
> 



From cynapse at charter.net  Fri Feb  5 10:55:52 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:55:52 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite related videos
In-Reply-To: <25451685.1265372253977.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <25451685.1265372253977.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <8lfom5hmril2l9gt8tr4segai6n6cc8qj2@4ax.com>

I keep watching for someone to post episode 2 of Meteorite Men somewhere (no
luck yet) and still every once and a while check around for the episode of Naked
Science about 2008 TC3 (also no luck) but I did find just about every other
episode of Naked Science in a torrent.  So, what the heck-- here's "Dino
Meteor", "Killer Asteroid", "Comets" and "Moon Mysteries."

http://www.sendspace.com/file/3ld3k9
http://www.sendspace.com/file/28jt97
http://www.sendspace.com/file/q71enj
http://www.sendspace.com/file/bsd2ts
http://www.sendspace.com/file/mdtdda


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:02:26 2010
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:02:26 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite related videos
Message-ID: <COL108-W266E20857A372E83EB53D9B540@phx.gbl>



Thanks, Darren, Please continue to keep a look out for the Meteorite Men and N.S. Countdown to Impact videos. I've been dying to see those as most everyone on this list.

Carl2


 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/

From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Fri Feb  5 11:38:52 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:38:52 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
	rock'
In-Reply-To: <367707.10894.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <367707.10894.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004101caa681$b4393340$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Hello Shawn,

this article from McEwen, Schmitt et al. you linked,
is not very useful, 
as it gives no authoritative orientation in the question of the ownership of
meteorites;

Because it is an interpretation of the convention, which might be somewhat
far-fetched, of a few individuals. It reflects an opinion and is not a norm.

Google for the fulltext of the UNESCO convention of 1970 and for the
following UNIDROIT convention.

We had it here already on the list.

It is relatively clear, what the conventions says.
(Meteorites btw. aren't mentioned there at all).

Meteorites per se do not meet the definition of "heritage" given in the
conventions.

There is only one exception given in the convention, which allows to protect
a meteorite indeed as a cultural heritage:

The meteorite has to be part of a scientific collection 
(or has to be the result of an official scientific expedition)
only then it can be protected, cause then it has the necessary cultural
meaning.

Therefore a new fall, a desert find, hence stones mankind had no contact
with,
or to the extreme: an unfound meteorite,
cannot be a cultural heritage in terms of the UNESCO convention.

Aim of the sentence there with the minerals in collection, the only one,
which applies to meteorites,
was, to avoid, that museums collections or scientific collections or parts
of them would be trafficked or leaving the countries.

Secondly, there are formal requirements, for the UNESCO convention becoming
effective at all, which are also given there.

The convention has to be ratified as NATIONAL law
and each country has to create a catalogue, which lists all objects, which
shall be protected as cultural heritage.
Australia e.g. did so, and listed there meteorites (but not tektites).

While many other countries still haven't made their lists yet,
simply because they fear, that they would have to return then, so many stuff
from their museums to the countries of origin.

Again. If a country hasn't ratified the convention and if it has no list
with the items of its cultural heritage
or if it has a list, but meteorites aren't listed there,
then in this country meteorites don't fall under the UNESCO convention.

So you see, that what the papers says, that all meteorites in general fall
under the UNESCO convention - is wrong. Full Stop.

So Schmitt, McEwen et al.  really have an extreme weak standing, if it goes
into details.

Btw. that what they wrote about Switzerland, that meteorites would belong
automatically to the state, seems to be wrong.
A Suisse meteoricist send me the law... there it is given in fact rather a
right of preemption for the state and the law is very vague, so that it's a
question of interpretation, whether meteorites fall under this law.


So indeed that paper has a relatively low quality, if you get to the bottom.

The problem is, that it seems the only paper about meteorite laws
and that it was published in MAPS.
Therefore it staid unquestioned
and people tend to believe, what they read there.

Best!
martin

 

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn
Alan
Gesendet: Freitag, 5. Februar 2010 08:33
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
rock'

Hello Listernites
?
Here is a link about the laws of ownership on meteorites.?I had posted?it
a?few days ago, which?Ill post again because it looks like it?will be a good
reference to this topic on ownership. I hope the owner/s get a good lawyer
because it looks like the Smithsonian isn't leaving anything behind for the
public because the Smithsonian has the vacuum bag in their possession that
wasused to clean up the mess from the Lorton meteorite.
?
Shawn Alan
?
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2001/pdf/5150.pdf 
?
[meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
cdtucson at cox.net cdtucson at cox.net 
Thu Feb 4 23:40:08 EST 2010 





From photophlow at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  5 11:45:02 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:45:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
Message-ID: <869742.93767.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Carl and Listers

Again can you please give me an example of someone owning the fall of a meteorite thats relates to the Lorton meteorite.

As for the Lorton meteorite the meteorite didnt find the Dr's they found the meteorite. They didnt find the fall of the meteorite because the meteorite had fallen and hit the surface and ended its path in the Dr's office on the ground where the Dr's found the meteorite. The Dr's in question dont own the office they lease the space.

Lastly, you keep falling back on this fall question. Now in your own words or in a good source can you define what the ownership of the fall of a meteorite is? 

Shawn Alan




Forwarded Message: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
Friday, February 5, 2010 8:42 AM
From:
cdtucson at cox.net
To:
photophlow at yahoo.com
Cc:
meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Shawn,
As silly as it sounds,  there are people who believe there is a difference between a "fall" and a"find". And although these seven words (A "find" is owned by the landowner)  might define ownership of a find. It does not address the ownership of a fall. I think the Hodges case did address this issue but often times the courts do reverse previous decisions.For an example of real property ownership;
In real estate,  property is described based on ownership boundaries. For example;
In ownership of a condominium you really only do own the air space ( sometimes they are high rise buildings). You own the paint on the wall but not the wall itself. You really don't own outright any real property (land) . The association which you are a part of owns the land but not a single individual.
In a town home you do own the inside half of the walls that separate the units but not the exterior of the building or the roof.
I guess we need to see the actual statute to see if it addresses falls or not to be sure and it might be more than seven words long.
But, lets say for argument sake that this meteorite never hits land. This is the case with Lorton but what if it hit a car parked on land and remained 100% within the car? What has the land owner to do with this? It never hit land. This is why air space comes into play.
In the Lorton case it never hit land either. This makes it complicated. The doctors actually did not find the meteorite. It found them.
Again, a find is clear but a fall is not. IMO At least not clear based on a weak seven words used above. Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- photophlow at yahoo.com wrote:
> Carl and Listers,
>
> The example I gave might be half weak in your eyes, but the fact of the matter is that it states that the landowner is entitled to the meteorite.
>
> Now the answer to your question about who is entitled to the fall in question and not the find is weak. What is in question is the ownership of the meteorite not the fall of the meteorite. Can you please give me an example of someone owning the fall of the meteorite?
>
> A meteorite comes into question of ownership once it has impacted the the surface or there of not while its in flight.
>
> Shawn Alan


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  5 12:13:19 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:13:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Safely removing caliche?
Message-ID: <57217.62056.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I picked up a few small oriented Taza from Geoff N. yesterday. One, the size and shape of a canine tooth, has a partial coating of what appears to be caliche around the middle.

I'm not ready to take a wire brush to it just yet, but I was wondering if there is another (non mechanical) way to remove it without affecting the surface below? 

Thanks

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


      


From jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  5 12:29:13 2010
From: jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com (Jason Chadwick)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:29:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Some Specials.... 24 Hour Offer
Message-ID: <682994.43605.qm@web114013.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello,

(Forwarded for Michael Cottingham)

Hello,

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These are special for list members only, please contact me for payment information.  I do NOT need to sell all of these, just one, maybe two. I will end the sale early, if what I need is achieved.


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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190369451556

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200366353657

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190368543872

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200433332013

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Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham


      



From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Fri Feb  5 12:48:58 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:48:58 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
In-Reply-To: <869742.93767.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <869742.93767.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004401caa68b$9a7208b0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Well...  whether it was an ownerless object, whether it became part of the
ground....

I have a question:

How could we and science survive 200 years,
how could Homo Sapiens survive 200,000 years
and how could survive this planet 4 500 000 000 years 

without any law about ownership of meteorites ?



Martin

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn
Alan
Gesendet: Freitag, 5. Februar 2010 17:45
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'

Carl and Listers

Again can you please give me an example of someone owning the fall of a
meteorite thats relates to the Lorton meteorite.

As for the Lorton meteorite the meteorite didnt find the Dr's they found the
meteorite. They didnt find the fall of the meteorite because the meteorite
had fallen and hit the surface and ended its path in the Dr's office on the
ground where the Dr's found the meteorite. The Dr's in question dont own the
office they lease the space.

Lastly, you keep falling back on this fall question. Now in your own words
or in a good source can you define what the ownership of the fall of a
meteorite is? 

Shawn Alan




Forwarded Message: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the
people's rock'
Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
Friday, February 5, 2010 8:42 AM
From:
cdtucson at cox.net
To:
photophlow at yahoo.com
Cc:
meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Shawn,
As silly as it sounds,  there are people who believe there is a difference
between a "fall" and a"find". And although these seven words (A "find" is
owned by the landowner)  might define ownership of a find. It does not
address the ownership of a fall. I think the Hodges case did address this
issue but often times the courts do reverse previous decisions.For an
example of real property ownership;
In real estate,  property is described based on ownership boundaries. For
example;
In ownership of a condominium you really only do own the air space (
sometimes they are high rise buildings). You own the paint on the wall but
not the wall itself. You really don't own outright any real property (land)
. The association which you are a part of owns the land but not a single
individual.
In a town home you do own the inside half of the walls that separate the
units but not the exterior of the building or the roof.
I guess we need to see the actual statute to see if it addresses falls or
not to be sure and it might be more than seven words long.
But, lets say for argument sake that this meteorite never hits land. This is
the case with Lorton but what if it hit a car parked on land and remained
100% within the car? What has the land owner to do with this? It never hit
land. This is why air space comes into play.
In the Lorton case it never hit land either. This makes it complicated. The
doctors actually did not find the meteorite. It found them.
Again, a find is clear but a fall is not. IMO At least not clear based on a
weak seven words used above. Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- photophlow at yahoo.com wrote:
> Carl and Listers,
>
> The example I gave might be half weak in your eyes, but the fact of the
matter is that it states that the landowner is entitled to the meteorite.
>
> Now the answer to your question about who is entitled to the fall in
question and not the find is weak. What is in question is the ownership of
the meteorite not the fall of the meteorite. Can you please give me an
example of someone owning the fall of the meteorite?
>
> A meteorite comes into question of ownership once it has impacted the the
surface or there of not while its in flight.
>
> Shawn Alan
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From julie.latch4d at vzw.blackberry.net  Fri Feb  5 12:48:22 2010
From: julie.latch4d at vzw.blackberry.net (julie.latch4d at vzw.blackberry.net)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:48:22 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite
Message-ID: <575015661-1265392103-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1580965932-@bda189.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Hi all.  I do believe the meteorite did break into three pieces. The landowner gets one piece, the DR. gets one piece  and the Smithsonian gets one. Just a thought.  Thx Julie
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Fri Feb  5 13:01:34 2010
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:01:34 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
Message-ID: <03E63831B2204D63BEB1D5DA9F15B390@ET>

There's really no question here, the landowner owns the meteorite. (period)

The "People's Rock"?  Maybe in the People's Republic of China!

Phil Whitmer


From geoking at notkin.net  Fri Feb  5 13:02:25 2010
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:02:25 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010: Birthday Bash & Harvey Awards Tonight
Message-ID: <E22246AB-99EC-4DD9-BCB4-975B4C8044DE@notkin.net>

Dear Friends:

For those of you in Tucson attending the gem show, a reminder that  
tonight is the Eleventh Annual Meteor Mayhem Birthday Bash & Harvey  
Awards. Your hosts: Steve Arnold and Geoff Notkin.

Location:

SKY BAR
536 North Fourth Avenue, Tucson, AZ

http://meteoritemen.com/events/meteorite-men-premiere.htm

7 pm 'til late
Harvey Awards Ceremony 8 pm

There is great food available, and a full bar
Admission is free and all are welcome

Also:

Fire dancers
Live music by Doc Hudson
"Meteorite Men" screenings on three giant widescreen TVs
Steve and Geoff's obligatory bad comedy sketch
And there is a rumor that Geoff may reunite with his old bandmate Doc  
Hudson to perform a few songs

If you need directions, please stop by Suite 230 at the InnSuites /  
Hotel Tucson City Center

See you there, it should be a good one.


Geoff & Steve


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Fri Feb  5 13:25:52 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:25:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 5,
	2010
Message-ID: <1665491279.1347681265394352361.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_5_2010.html



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Fri Feb  5 13:25:17 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:25:17 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Safely removing caliche?
In-Reply-To: <57217.62056.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <57217.62056.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C628D.90105@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi Richard,

I use vinegar... Apple cider vinegar works pretty good too. I guess it's 
a bit stronger. I've also heard citric acid works well, but I've never 
tried it.

Regards,
Eric Wichman



On 2/5/2010 9:13 AM, Richard Kowalski wrote:
> I picked up a few small oriented Taza from Geoff N. yesterday. One, the size and shape of a canine tooth, has a partial coating of what appears to be caliche around the middle.
>
> I'm not ready to take a wire brush to it just yet, but I was wondering if there is another (non mechanical) way to remove it without affecting the surface below?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Full Moon Photography
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Fri Feb  5 13:25:21 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:25:21 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Safely removing caliche?
In-Reply-To: <57217.62056.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <57217.62056.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C6291.3080502@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi Richard,

I use vinegar... Apple cider vinegar works pretty good too. I guess it's 
a bit stronger. I've also heard citric acid works well, but I've never 
tried it.

Regards,
Eric Wichman



On 2/5/2010 9:13 AM, Richard Kowalski wrote:
> I picked up a few small oriented Taza from Geoff N. yesterday. One, the size and shape of a canine tooth, has a partial coating of what appears to be caliche around the middle.
>
> I'm not ready to take a wire brush to it just yet, but I was wondering if there is another (non mechanical) way to remove it without affecting the surface below?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Full Moon Photography
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


From geoking at notkin.net  Fri Feb  5 13:24:53 2010
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:24:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010: Meet Chris Cokinos Tomorrow! "Fallen
	Sky"
Message-ID: <AF16CC0F-5887-4015-9C7E-8353933A1A04@notkin.net>

Dear Listees:

I am thrilled to announce that Chris Cokinos, author of my favorite  
meteorite book, "The Fallen Sky," will be doing a book signing in our  
room tomorrow afternoon. We have a tentative time of 2 pm and will  
confirm that later. The signing will take place in Anne's and my  
showroom -- 230 at the InnSuites / Hotel Tucson City Center.

Chris is a fascinating and engaging writer and speaker, and I know you  
will enjoy meeting him. He will also have copies of "The Fallen Sky"  
for sale.

My review of Chris' book:

http://tucsoncitizen.com/lizard/2009/07/25/contemplating-mysteries-of-the-universe-in-the-fallen-sky/


Don't miss this opportunity to say hello to one of our nation's finest  
contemporary science/literature writers.


Our room location:

http://www.aerolite.org/events/tucson/tucson-meteorite-dealer.htm


Hope to see you there.


Geoff N.

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com




From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Feb  5 13:37:43 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:37:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: February 1-5, 2010
Message-ID: <201002051837.o15IbhHH024317@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
February 1-5, 2010

o Proctor Crater Dunes (01 February 2010)
http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100201a

o Arkhangelsky Crater (02 February 2010)
http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100202a

o Lycus Sulci (03 February 2010)
http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100203a

o Patapsco Vallis (04 February 2010)
http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100204a

o Coprates Chasma (05 February 2010)
http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100205a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 





From cdtucson at cox.net  Fri Feb  5 16:49:51 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 16:49:51 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <03E63831B2204D63BEB1D5DA9F15B390@ET>
Message-ID: <20100205164951.O9TX5.336205.imail@fed1rmwml44>

Phil,
I assume from this bold statement that you either have inside information or you are not familiar with the American legal system.
Most people including myself agree that you are probably right and the past precedent says it belongs to the landlord. . The Smithsonian and the Doctors are not convinced or this matter would be over wouldn't it? This looks like it is going to be challenged in court. If this changes the precedent it might make this particular meteorite very important for a chondrite. It is definitely worth the challenge for the doctors. Plus keep in mind the Smithsonian might have there own lawyers involved. How do they say it. "It aint over till the fat lady sings." Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- JoshuaTreeMuseum <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com> wrote: 
> There's really no question here, the landowner owns the meteorite. (period)
> 
> The "People's Rock"?  Maybe in the People's Republic of China!
> 
> Phil Whitmer
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Fri Feb  5 17:18:15 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 23:18:15 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <20100205164951.O9TX5.336205.imail@fed1rmwml44>
References: <03E63831B2204D63BEB1D5DA9F15B390@ET>
	<20100205164951.O9TX5.336205.imail@fed1rmwml44>
Message-ID: <000901caa6b1$2043b1d0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Poor doctor,

hey veterans! Remember?

In former times, each new find or find of new meteorite was a happy, happy
event.

And nowadays?
People fighting on the street in Park Forest,
Evil blood in Ash Creek,
Schrader gets harassed for his Arizona fall finds,
Bouzzard Coulee the export mess,
Tamdakht, when it felt, the Moroccans were attacked to be lie about the tkw,
Fireball over South Africa, immediate scream: It belongs to the state!
Niggling scientists in Moss,
Mud-wrestling in the Cancarancas hole,
PA Fireball, dealers ranting,
Arrests cause of Almahata Sitta,
Hindrance of the field work in Sulagiri,
Lawsuit about Neuschwanstein,
Prohibition of Berduc,
Santa Lucia - work for nothing,
False accusations that Chergach would be Bassikounou or vice versa,
Corruption at Buenguerir,
And the Australians, the Omani, the Algerians make a drama, that every
observer could mean, that it has to be an incredible catastrophe, that
meteorites are found in these countries.
And other yellers try to close Sahara completely.
Now Lorton.

That all sucks endlessly.

I can't help,
how shall we discuss about cultural heritage, if the people have no culture?

Martin


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
cdtucson at cox.net
Gesendet: Freitag, 5. Februar 2010 22:50
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; JoshuaTreeMuseum
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite

Phil,
I assume from this bold statement that you either have inside information or
you are not familiar with the American legal system.
Most people including myself agree that you are probably right and the past
precedent says it belongs to the landlord. . The Smithsonian and the Doctors
are not convinced or this matter would be over wouldn't it? This looks like
it is going to be challenged in court. If this changes the precedent it
might make this particular meteorite very important for a chondrite. It is
definitely worth the challenge for the doctors. Plus keep in mind the
Smithsonian might have there own lawyers involved. How do they say it. "It
aint over till the fat lady sings." Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- JoshuaTreeMuseum <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com> wrote: 
> There's really no question here, the landowner owns the meteorite.
(period)
> 
> The "People's Rock"?  Maybe in the People's Republic of China!
> 
> Phil Whitmer
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  5 11:03:04 2010
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:03:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 2, (update)
Message-ID: <947535.38549.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Good morning listee's.I forgot an update to last night on day 2. I also had the good fortune to meet SVEND BUHL from germany.A very nice and classy person.Welcome to tucson svend.We went out to dinner with bob haag and had a great time out at lil abners steak house.And we ate and drank for 2 hours,plus he picked up out tab.Thanks so much bob.He'll be at the party tonight so for those who have not met him this will be your chance.I also got my very nicely jagged and nicely polished 38 gram slice of esquel.NICE!!!!!!!!!? Well thats all for now till day 3 endings.It supposed to be 70 today and sunny and clear.Im also thinking about getting a 22 gram slice of pena blanca springs if it is still here.Have a great day till later.




?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  5 19:03:58 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 16:03:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
Message-ID: <665937.99302.qm@web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Well... whether it was an ownerless object, whether it became part of the 
ground.... 

I have a question: 

How could we and science survive 200 years, 
how could Homo Sapiens survive 200,000 years 
and how could survive this planet 4 500 000 000 years 

without any law about ownership of meteorites ? 
?
?
Hi Martin and Listers
?
Are you asking does the human race need laws on ownership of meteorites to survive? 
?
Shawn Alan



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Fri Feb  5 19:51:35 2010
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 16:51:35 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite
Message-ID: <COL108-W46E7B2D90041D42F81FE2E9B530@phx.gbl>


Hi Martin and All,

Everything is relative and it could get much worse!:( Maybe now is happy times afterall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaW4Ol3_M1o&feature=fvst

Carl2



Martin wrote:
>hey veterans! Remember?
In former times, each new find or find of new meteorite was a happy, happy
event...


 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/

From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Fri Feb  5 20:32:02 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 02:32:02 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
In-Reply-To: <665937.99302.qm@web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <665937.99302.qm@web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001501caa6cc$313ad980$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

No, I asked, how we survived without.

When the day is long, I sometimes think, why hasn't Andorra a meteorite law
yet? But Denmark has.

Seriously, everything was going perfectly without meteorite laws, nobody
felt a need for meteorite laws.
Especially in the last 10-20 years, the find rates exploded,
for 10 years the prices dropped, meteorites became readily available at
will, even the most weird types, and very important new ones were recovered,
- available at will for researchers and private collectors and that at so
low prices, never seen before.

And what do we had to see? Even in these very recent few years?
A torrent of laws.

Well, in the 1980ies some got worried, thought it will be more helpful, to
have laws, cause they thought more meteorites will end up in the institutes,
so they made the experiment, see Australia.

Result was, that Australia was catapulted from rank N?3 of the meteorite
nations into Nirwana, and erased from the map of meteoritics,
as no finds were made anymore.

Did we learn a thing from that?
No.

On contrary, laws, laws, laws, in Denmark, in China, in Oman, in Poland, in
Algeria, in Argentina....

Libya was left from the hunters, find rates dropped to 3%. 
Oman, when the privateers made it arable, the officials came, which couldn't
even spell the word "meteorite" before and found it nicely done for
themselves, since then a tiny group of a few individuals tried everything to
kick the hunters out, if we deduct the finds of the normal hunters - what
will be left?

Algeria, not a single effort ever, to do something for meteorites.
But laws...

The first reports from the Tucson show are coming in.
By all means they are appalling. Again less material, prices multiplied.

Don't get me wrong, USA is meteoritically seen one of the last few civilized
countries (Germany too),
and nothing against Franconia...  but shall this really be the future of
meteoritics?


It is difficult to bear.
Those laws happen always at the instigation of a very few individuals.
What for a hubris a person must have, what for a self-righteousness,
which allows him or her, to bring a whole branch of a science, which is
established for 200 years, down and to put himself above those, who produce
the meteorites and above his colleagues?
And if one thinks about the costs, the public will have to bear then.
Shawn, I hear so often from universities and museums, oh, that sample we
can't afford. What will they say, what will they do, if meteorites due to
these laws will cost later 5 times or 30 times more, because there aren't
any anymore? Scaremongering? Not at all, I still knew the times, when the
prices were so high, and the curators, if they are looking in the archives,
know it too, that they had to pay such prices for the 200 years before.

It makes no sense. Also not for these people themselves, they win nothing,
but they loose almost all.

And I can't understand them, what for an irresponsibility!


Shawn, enjoy these years, they are the last.
The change, we all warned against, has begun.

And be told, what we loose once,
we never will get back again.

So let Lorton be Lorton,
who cares, if the Smithonian will buy it from the doc or from the landlord.
We have rather to decide the future of meteoritics, science and collecting,
before it will be fully too late. 

Ouch!
Martin




 
  




 

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn
Alan
Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Februar 2010 01:04
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'

Well... whether it was an ownerless object, whether it became part of the 
ground.... 

I have a question: 

How could we and science survive 200 years, 
how could Homo Sapiens survive 200,000 years 
and how could survive this planet 4 500 000 000 years 

without any law about ownership of meteorites ? 
?
?
Hi Martin and Listers
?
Are you asking does the human race need laws on ownership of meteorites to
survive? 
?
Shawn Alan

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From CMoore at asu.edu  Fri Feb  5 20:36:49 2010
From: CMoore at asu.edu (Carleton Moore)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:36:49 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
Message-ID: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC3A55@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu>

A coincidence that when the first pistol picture was posted a gunman named Redondo shot a Gilbert Arizona policeman in the head and killed him as well as shooting at other police chasing and catching him and his partner. Remember Arizona is a gun happy state.


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Fri Feb  5 21:09:34 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:09:34 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
In-Reply-To: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC3A55@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu>
References: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC3A55@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu>
Message-ID: <4B6CCF5E.8000209@meteoritesusa.com>

I'm sure all of us are very sorry to here of such a tragedy, and our 
hearts go out to those families touched by such a devastating event, but 
I'm reasonably sure people do not wish to hear more of the "gun issue" 
on the meteorite list.

Regards,
Eric


On 2/5/2010 5:36 PM, Carleton Moore wrote:
> A coincidence that when the first pistol picture was posted a gunman named Redondo shot a Gilbert Arizona policeman in the head and killed him as well as shooting at other police chasing and catching him and his partner. Remember Arizona is a gun happy state.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Fri Feb  5 21:26:59 2010
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:26:59 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] A new name for complex BO chondrules is needed?
Message-ID: <1b462.6a9d0569.389e2d73@aol.com>

Hi list,

I have read (and been told) the  barred olivine chondrules wire a result of 
a shock wave traveling through the  early soup.  Maybe in some instances 
but not in this one.   It  GREW!

If ordinary BO chondrules are a result of a shock wave then a new  name is 
needed for this type of thing. 

Email me for some pics.  The  subject chondrule is found in a slice of SaU 
001.

Tom Phillips  



From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Fri Feb  5 21:39:46 2010
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:39:46 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
Message-ID: <99D8EBF4A4E247388EBBB17F95F8F66E@whitmerjbqtim1>

Hiya Carl, gun lovers and haters:

I was merely stating the law as it now stands. If a meteorite falls on your 
property, you own it.  An open and shut case.  If the Smithsonian wants to 
appeal to the Supreme Court, the Court could possibly rule that current 
meteorite laws are unconstitutional. It's extremely unlikely they would hear 
the case. It's highly unlikely even a Circuit judge would strike down 
current meteorite laws as unconstitutional. Or any judge for that matter. 
The Smithsonian has the lawyers and the funding of the federal gov't backing 
them, they could try to argue the laws are unconstitutional, highly unlikely 
as there is practically no chance they would win.

What they could do is go straight to the President and get either a 
presidential decree or have the Justice Dep't  write some memos like they 
did legalizing torture. Again not a chance.

More likely they could get a Congressman to introduce a bill changing the 
meteorite laws, but it would never make it out of the first round of 
sub-committes.

Possession  might be nine tenths of the law, but I'll be dollars to donuts 
the Smithsonian gives it back.


Phil Whitmer 



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Fri Feb  5 23:03:37 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:03:37 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Odd UNWA
Message-ID: <4B6CEA19.1020901@meteoritesusa.com>

Those of you on Facebook: This is a very odd stone UNWA I sliced a few 
hours ago. Full of iron, vesicles, very highly magnetic, odd metal, 
white clasts and inclusions, and no visible chondrules to speak of.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1219094173

Enjoy...

Regards,
Eric



From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Fri Feb  5 22:52:47 2010
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:52:47 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <99D8EBF4A4E247388EBBB17F95F8F66E@whitmerjbqtim1>
References: <99D8EBF4A4E247388EBBB17F95F8F66E@whitmerjbqtim1>
Message-ID: <4B6CE78F.8060702@usgs.gov>

I'm puzzled by why so many of you seem to think the Smithsonian is 
playing such an active role in this. First of all, the meteorite was 
brought to them for identification; the SI did not make some kind of 
power play to get it.  And there is no indication that they are making a 
power play to keep it.  From talking to their people right after the 
fall and when I visited this week, it's clear that they would be pleased 
if the meteorite ended up in the National Meteorite Collection.  But I 
have not seen or read any evidence that they are in any way fighting to 
prevent others from getting it back, legally or politically.   People 
should just relax and wait to see how this plays out before jumping to 
conclusions.

Jeff

On 2010-02-05 9:39 PM, Phil Whitmer wrote:
> Hiya Carl, gun lovers and haters:
>
> I was merely stating the law as it now stands. If a meteorite falls on 
> your property, you own it.  An open and shut case.  If the Smithsonian 
> wants to appeal to the Supreme Court, the Court could possibly rule 
> that current meteorite laws are unconstitutional. It's extremely 
> unlikely they would hear the case. It's highly unlikely even a Circuit 
> judge would strike down current meteorite laws as unconstitutional. Or 
> any judge for that matter. The Smithsonian has the lawyers and the 
> funding of the federal gov't backing them, they could try to argue the 
> laws are unconstitutional, highly unlikely as there is practically no 
> chance they would win.
>
> What they could do is go straight to the President and get either a 
> presidential decree or have the Justice Dep't  write some memos like 
> they did legalizing torture. Again not a chance.
>
> More likely they could get a Congressman to introduce a bill changing 
> the meteorite laws, but it would never make it out of the first round 
> of sub-committes.
>
> Possession  might be nine tenths of the law, but I'll be dollars to 
> donuts the Smithsonian gives it back.
>
>
> Phil Whitmer
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From freequarks at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 00:14:18 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 22:14:18 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
In-Reply-To: <4B6CCF5E.8000209@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC3A55@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu>
	<4B6CCF5E.8000209@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a1002052114x27905cfdod77686ced1973f48@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

If Dr. Moore wants to share anything with this list, please let's all
consider it an honor to be in his virtual presence regardless of the
topic.

thank you,

Martin



On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> I'm sure all of us are very sorry to here of such a tragedy, and our hearts
> go out to those families touched by such a devastating event, but I'm
> reasonably sure people do not wish to hear more of the "gun issue" on the
> meteorite list.
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
>
> On 2/5/2010 5:36 PM, Carleton Moore wrote:
>>
>> A coincidence that when the first pistol picture was posted a gunman named
>> Redondo shot a Gilbert Arizona policeman in the head and killed him as well
>> as shooting at other police chasing and catching him and his partner.
>> Remember Arizona is a gun happy state.
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From cdtucson at cox.net  Sat Feb  6 00:57:53 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 0:57:53 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <4B6CE78F.8060702@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <20100206005753.N96TT.139041.imail@fed1rmwml46>

Jeff,
As always you say the right thing but I would like to see this litigated in this case due to the fact that these Doctors were in legal possession of the real estate and this is a Fall and not a find. These laws only mention finds and our hobby thinks there is a difference. As I asked before. This landed inside not on the dirt so it is not part of the soil which is very specifically stated in the law. It says the meteorite becomes part of the soil it was found in. Well this did not end up in soil. It ended up sitting on legally rented property. What if it hit a car and landed in the trunk of the car? Falls need laws if for no other reason than to help buyers such as the Smithsonian make an informed buying decision. 

Here is an interesting article.

http://brightcoast.wordpress.com/2010/02/05/meteorite-law-are-tenants-lost-in-space/

And yet another link here shows the actual law as written in an abstract;

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M%26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=3&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_VIEW&classic=YES

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> wrote: 
> I'm puzzled by why so many of you seem to think the Smithsonian is 
> playing such an active role in this. First of all, the meteorite was 
> brought to them for identification; the SI did not make some kind of 
> power play to get it.  And there is no indication that they are making a 
> power play to keep it.  From talking to their people right after the 
> fall and when I visited this week, it's clear that they would be pleased 
> if the meteorite ended up in the National Meteorite Collection.  But I 
> have not seen or read any evidence that they are in any way fighting to 
> prevent others from getting it back, legally or politically.   People 
> should just relax and wait to see how this plays out before jumping to 
> conclusions.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> On 2010-02-05 9:39 PM, Phil Whitmer wrote:
> > Hiya Carl, gun lovers and haters:
> >
> > I was merely stating the law as it now stands. If a meteorite falls on 
> > your property, you own it.  An open and shut case.  If the Smithsonian 
> > wants to appeal to the Supreme Court, the Court could possibly rule 
> > that current meteorite laws are unconstitutional. It's extremely 
> > unlikely they would hear the case. It's highly unlikely even a Circuit 
> > judge would strike down current meteorite laws as unconstitutional. Or 
> > any judge for that matter. The Smithsonian has the lawyers and the 
> > funding of the federal gov't backing them, they could try to argue the 
> > laws are unconstitutional, highly unlikely as there is practically no 
> > chance they would win.
> >
> > What they could do is go straight to the President and get either a 
> > presidential decree or have the Justice Dep't  write some memos like 
> > they did legalizing torture. Again not a chance.
> >
> > More likely they could get a Congressman to introduce a bill changing 
> > the meteorite laws, but it would never make it out of the first round 
> > of sub-committes.
> >
> > Possession  might be nine tenths of the law, but I'll be dollars to 
> > donuts the Smithsonian gives it back.
> >
> >
> > Phil Whitmer
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at 
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From markig at westnet.com  Sat Feb  6 01:21:10 2010
From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:21:10 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
References: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC3A55@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu><4B6CCF5E.8000209@meteoritesusa.com>
	<822da19a1002052114x27905cfdod77686ced1973f48@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D968F662F2AE4F43A9F1B7FA234C2BE2@QED>

I agree with Eric and respectully disagree with Martin.

Rank, honors, degrees, accomplishments, etc. do not make it more appropriate 
for one person to post off topic than another person who has not achieved 
the same academic or other accomplishments.

After all of the discussion, I would think it would be best for eminent 
scientists as well as unknown collectors to refrain from posting further on 
the topic, especially since all of the debate looked like it had finally 
gone by the wayside.

I think it best it stay that way.

Mark Grossman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dark Matter" <freequarks at gmail.com>
To: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.


> Hello all,
>
> If Dr. Moore wants to share anything with this list, please let's all
> consider it an honor to be in his virtual presence regardless of the
> topic.
>
> thank you,
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> 
> wrote:
>> I'm sure all of us are very sorry to here of such a tragedy, and our 
>> hearts
>> go out to those families touched by such a devastating event, but I'm
>> reasonably sure people do not wish to hear more of the "gun issue" on the
>> meteorite list.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/2010 5:36 PM, Carleton Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> A coincidence that when the first pistol picture was posted a gunman 
>>> named
>>> Redondo shot a Gilbert Arizona policeman in the head and killed him as 
>>> well
>>> as shooting at other police chasing and catching him and his partner.
>>> Remember Arizona is a gun happy state.
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 01:17:02 2010
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 22:17:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <20100206005753.N96TT.139041.imail@fed1rmwml46>
Message-ID: <411717.30108.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

But at the same point and time, who was liable for payment for the damage caused? Should they not be the ones to keep the material that caused the damage as they had to pay for the repair, they should keep what did it.
The woman who was hit by the meteorite did not have the legal right to keep it, if I recall correctly, it was also a fall and not a find.
"The soil" has been shown many times over to include what is ON the soil and often under it (unless you live in states that only allow you ownership to a certain depth and no mineral/mining rights)

Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites


--- On Sat, 2/6/10, cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson at cox.net> wrote:

> From: cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
> To: "Jeff Grossman" <jgrossman at usgs.gov>, "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 12:57 AM
> Jeff,
> As always you say the right thing but I would like to see
> this litigated in this case due to the fact that these
> Doctors were in legal possession of the real estate and this
> is a Fall and not a find. These laws only mention finds and
> our hobby thinks there is a difference. As I asked before.
> This landed inside not on the dirt so it is not part of the
> soil which is very specifically stated in the law. It says
> the meteorite becomes part of the soil it was found in. Well
> this did not end up in soil. It ended up sitting on legally
> rented property. What if it hit a car and landed in the
> trunk of the car? Falls need laws if for no other reason
> than to help buyers such as the Smithsonian make an informed
> buying decision. 
> 
> Here is an interesting article.
> 
> http://brightcoast.wordpress.com/2010/02/05/meteorite-law-are-tenants-lost-in-space/
> 
> And yet another link here shows the actual law as written
> in an abstract;
> 
> http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M%26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=3&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_VIEW&classic=YES
> 
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
> 
> 
> ---- Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov>
> wrote: 
> > I'm puzzled by why so many of you seem to think the
> Smithsonian is 
> > playing such an active role in this. First of all, the
> meteorite was 
> > brought to them for identification; the SI did not
> make some kind of 
> > power play to get it.? And there is no indication
> that they are making a 
> > power play to keep it.? From talking to their
> people right after the 
> > fall and when I visited this week, it's clear that
> they would be pleased 
> > if the meteorite ended up in the National Meteorite
> Collection.? But I 
> > have not seen or read any evidence that they are in
> any way fighting to 
> > prevent others from getting it back, legally or
> politically.???People 
> > should just relax and wait to see how this plays out
> before jumping to 
> > conclusions.
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> > On 2010-02-05 9:39 PM, Phil Whitmer wrote:
> > > Hiya Carl, gun lovers and haters:
> > >
> > > I was merely stating the law as it now stands. If
> a meteorite falls on 
> > > your property, you own it.? An open and shut
> case.? If the Smithsonian 
> > > wants to appeal to the Supreme Court, the Court
> could possibly rule 
> > > that current meteorite laws are unconstitutional.
> It's extremely 
> > > unlikely they would hear the case. It's highly
> unlikely even a Circuit 
> > > judge would strike down current meteorite laws as
> unconstitutional. Or 
> > > any judge for that matter. The Smithsonian has
> the lawyers and the 
> > > funding of the federal gov't backing them, they
> could try to argue the 
> > > laws are unconstitutional, highly unlikely as
> there is practically no 
> > > chance they would win.
> > >
> > > What they could do is go straight to the
> President and get either a 
> > > presidential decree or have the Justice
> Dep't? write some memos like 
> > > they did legalizing torture. Again not a chance.
> > >
> > > More likely they could get a Congressman to
> introduce a bill changing 
> > > the meteorite laws, but it would never make it
> out of the first round 
> > > of sub-committes.
> > >
> > > Possession? might be nine tenths of the law,
> but I'll be dollars to 
> > > donuts the Smithsonian gives it back.
> > >
> > >
> > > Phil Whitmer
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > Visit the Archives at 
> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman? ?
> ???phone: (703) 648-6184
> > US Geological Survey? ? ? ? ?
> fax:???(703) 648-6383
> > 954 National Center
> > Reston, VA 20192, USA
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 02:09:12 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 23:09:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Lorton Meteorite
Message-ID: <261990.44683.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Jeff, Carl ?and Listers.
?
?
Jeff I am excited to see what happens with the case with the Lorton meteorite and glad you gave some good points.?Why I think people?are harping about the Smithsonian is that its been stated in the News that they are going to hold the meteorite till an owner is defined. If there is no owner defined I would think they would keep the meteorite? I think this case will set a new course?on?meteorite ownership.?
?
---- Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> wrote:?
?
"I'm puzzled by why so many of you seem to think the Smithsonian is 
playing such an active role in this. First of all, the meteorite was 
brought to them for identification; the SI did not make some kind of 
power play to get it. And there is no indication that they are making a 
power play to keep it. From talking to their people right after the 
fall and when I visited this week, it's clear that they would be pleased 
if the meteorite ended up in the National Meteorite Collection. But I 
have not seen or read any evidence that they are in any way fighting to 
prevent others from getting it back, legally or politically. People 
should just relax and wait to see how this plays out before jumping to 
conclusions." 
Jeff 

?
?
Lets move on to Carl
?
Carl yes this was a meteorite fall and was a find/found. All meteorites are falls at one point of time?or another and most?are?found. In the case with the Lorton meteorite?the Doctors found the meteorite on the floor in the office which you stated that "These laws only mention finds and our hobby thinks there is a difference." What this law states is that a find is when a meteorite is found which the Doctors did, they found the meteorite that fell/(meteorite fall)?to Earth. The fall is the cause of how the meteorite got to the ending location and has no validity in the law on ownership. Yes the meteorite feel/witnessed fall to the?Earth and landed on the?floor in the Doctors office and the Doctors found the meteorite which is a find :)? I think why there hasn't?been laws made on a fall/meteorite fall?is?because how can you?own a meteorite when it is?falling and hasn't fell to?the Earth and landed on the surface? I think it would be hard to
 make a?law for?a meteorite falls and ownership when it is still falling. But in my own opinion I think that the finder and the owner of the property/land by law should split the meteorite 50/50. Here is some food for thought :)
?
?
Shawn Alan??
?
cdtucson at cox.net cdtucson at cox.net 
Sat Feb 6 00:57:53 EST 2010 
?
?"Jeff, 
As always you say the right thing but I would like to see this litigated in this case due to the fact that these Doctors were in legal possession of the real estate and this is a Fall and not a find. These laws only mention finds and our hobby thinks there is a difference. As I asked before. This landed inside not on the dirt so it is not part of the soil which is very specifically stated in the law. It says the meteorite becomes part of the soil it was found in. Well this did not end up in soil. It ended up sitting on legally rented property. What if it hit a car and landed in the trunk of the car? Falls need laws if for no other reason than to help buyers such as the Smithsonian make an informed buying decision. 

Here is an interesting article."

http://brightcoast.wordpress.com/2010/02/05/meteorite-law-are-tenants-lost-in-space/ 

And yet another link here shows the actual law as written in an abstract; 

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M%26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=3&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_VIEW&classic=YES 

-- 
Carl or Debbie Esparza 
Meteoritemax 


---- Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> wrote: 

> I'm puzzled by why so many of you seem to think the Smithsonian is 

> playing such an active role in this. First of all, the meteorite was 

> brought to them for identification; the SI did not make some kind of 

> power play to get it. And there is no indication that they are making a 

> power play to keep it. From talking to their people right after the 

> fall and when I visited this week, it's clear that they would be pleased 

> if the meteorite ended up in the National Meteorite Collection. But I 

> have not seen or read any evidence that they are in any way fighting to 

> prevent others from getting it back, legally or politically. People 

> should just relax and wait to see how this plays out before jumping to 

> conclusions. 

> 

> Jeff 

> 

> On 2010-02-05 9:39 PM, Phil Whitmer wrote: 

> > Hiya Carl, gun lovers and haters: 

> > 

> > I was merely stating the law as it now stands. If a meteorite falls on 

> > your property, you own it. An open and shut case. If the Smithsonian 

> > wants to appeal to the Supreme Court, the Court could possibly rule 

> > that current meteorite laws are unconstitutional. It's extremely 

> > unlikely they would hear the case. It's highly unlikely even a Circuit 

> > judge would strike down current meteorite laws as unconstitutional. Or 

> > any judge for that matter. The Smithsonian has the lawyers and the 

> > funding of the federal gov't backing them, they could try to argue the 

> > laws are unconstitutional, highly unlikely as there is practically no 

> > chance they would win. 

> > 

> > What they could do is go straight to the President and get either a 

> > presidential decree or have the Justice Dep't write some memos like 

> > they did legalizing torture. Again not a chance. 

> > 

> > More likely they could get a Congressman to introduce a bill changing 

> > the meteorite laws, but it would never make it out of the first round 

> > of sub-committes. 

> > 

> > Possession might be nine tenths of the law, but I'll be dollars to 

> > donuts the Smithsonian gives it back. 

> > 

> > 

> > Phil Whitmer 

> > ______________________________________________ 

> > Visit the Archives at 

> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 

> > Meteorite-list mailing list 

> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

> > 

> 

> 

> -- 

> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 

> US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 

> 954 National Center 

> Reston, VA 20192, USA 

> 

> 

> ______________________________________________ 

> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 

> Meteorite-list mailing list 

> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


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From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Sat Feb  6 02:33:32 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 23:33:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - Calendar
	update
Message-ID: <1229180149.1427241265441612571.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

RSPOD Calendar has been updated:
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/calendar.html

Please let me know if I have posted your photo but is not visible on the calendar pages.
Sorry for the delay. Have been really backed up the past few months. 
Thanks to everyone for your support!

Regards,
Michael Johnson
http://www.rocksfromspace.org




From steve.dunklee at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 02:47:38 2010
From: steve.dunklee at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 23:47:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Safely removing caliche?
In-Reply-To: <4B6C6291.3080502@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <778853.23185.qm@web113920.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Taza also sometimes has iron staining on it so you can use TSP also called iron out, a tablespoon in a cup of water should be enough. any farm store or building supply should have it. I never recommend doing anything to a meteorite, as the terrestrial weathering is natural and expected. It also gives clues to terrestrial age and removing it destroys the evidence. you could also burn it off with a small torch but you have to dry it on an oven first as any moisture in the stone can cause it to explode. Heating it a little at a time with the torch converts some of the caliche to calcium oxide so it turns white then is quickly removed with a q-tip dampened with vinegar. after it has cooled. you have to remember the crust was formed at temperatures way higher than you can create with a torch. to keep from heating it too much just heat a small spot while holding it. when it starts to get warm stop.  and I mean mini torch like used for soldering electronics.
not a flashlight " for the Brits".  when you are done take some rice and dry it in an oven for 4 hours at 250 degrees F . take the rice out and let it cool in a covered glass jar. when the rice is cool put enough in a zip lock bag to completely cover the meteorite, or wet cell phone lol. and let it sit for at least 3 days to completely dry it out. dried rice is the cheapest and safest desiccant you can buy. its even better than silica gel. if you want you can buy indicator beads that change color when they start to get wet and add them to the rice.
have a great day

http://www.wikihow.com/Save-a-Wet-Cell-Phone


Steve  

--- On Fri, 2/5/10, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:

> From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Safely removing caliche?
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 6:25 PM
> Hi Richard,
> 
> I use vinegar... Apple cider vinegar works pretty good too.
> I guess it's 
> a bit stronger. I've also heard citric acid works well, but
> I've never 
> tried it.
> 
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/5/2010 9:13 AM, Richard Kowalski wrote:
> > I picked up a few small oriented Taza from Geoff N.
> yesterday. One, the size and shape of a canine tooth, has a
> partial coating of what appears to be caliche around the
> middle.
> >
> > I'm not ready to take a wire brush to it just yet, but
> I was wondering if there is another (non mechanical) way to
> remove it without affecting the surface below?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > Richard Kowalski
> > Full Moon Photography
> > IMCA #1081
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> >? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 03:38:11 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 00:38:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Safely removing caliche?
In-Reply-To: <778853.23185.qm@web113920.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <831324.40591.qm@web113615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Thanks all who responded.

Looks like plain old white vinegar is the thing to try. I think I'll hold off on the heating for now, but thanks Steve for what to do next if the basic suggestion doesn't work.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081



      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 03:59:26 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 00:59:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Inexpensive beginner's microscope?
Message-ID: <239635.59661.qm@web113614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I picked up a few thin sections in one of the rooms here in Tucson yesterday. These are my first.

I am considering a few of my options, but I was wondering if anyone could suggest a "budget-priced" beginner's microscope. To complicate things a bit, I want to be able to view the sample while I have my camera attached, so a parfocal trinocular is a must.

I have a good idea of what I need, but I'm still in the research phase. With one week of the Tucson shows done, another one still ahead and the Meteorite Auction later today, it will take a while for my wallet to recuperate, so I'm not ready to buy just yet.

Links off-list are appreciated.

Thanks.
 
--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


      


From minador at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 04:20:47 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:20:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms (rifles, shotguns and pistols)
In-Reply-To: <D968F662F2AE4F43A9F1B7FA234C2BE2@QED>
References: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC3A55@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu><4B6CCF5E.8000209@meteoritesusa.com>
	<822da19a1002052114x27905cfdod77686ced1973f48@mail.gmail.com>
	<D968F662F2AE4F43A9F1B7FA234C2BE2@QED>
Message-ID: <264454.85154.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello Tucson attendees,

Has anybody seen any Cat Mountain for sale?? Or any other unusual Arizona meteorites (Bagdad, Fish Canyon, etc.)??? I haven't been getting around as much as I hoped...? I hope you're all enjoying the show (or enjoying the coverage for those who cannot visit this year).? Thanks for the great photos Arizona Keith!

Best wishes,
Mark Bowling(balls from space)? 
Vail, AZ
????? 
o<<==~? (terrible l33t fireball?)

?
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Grossman <markig at westnet.com>
To: Dark Matter <freequarks at gmail.com>; Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 11:21:10 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.

I agree with Eric and respectully disagree with Martin.

Rank, honors, degrees, accomplishments, etc. do not make it more appropriate for one person to post off topic than another person who has not achieved the same academic or other accomplishments.

After all of the discussion, I would think it would be best for eminent scientists as well as unknown collectors to refrain from posting further on the topic, especially since all of the debate looked like it had finally gone by the wayside.

I think it best it stay that way.

Mark Grossman

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dark Matter" <freequarks at gmail.com>
To: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.


> Hello all,
> 
> If Dr. Moore wants to share anything with this list, please let's all
> consider it an honor to be in his virtual presence regardless of the
> topic.
> 
> thank you,
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>> I'm sure all of us are very sorry to here of such a tragedy, and our hearts
>> go out to those families touched by such a devastating event, but I'm
>> reasonably sure people do not wish to hear more of the "gun issue" on the
>> meteorite list.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/5/2010 5:36 PM, Carleton Moore wrote:
>>> 
>>> A coincidence that when the first pistol picture was posted a gunman named
>>> Redondo shot a Gilbert Arizona policeman in the head and killed him as well
>>> as shooting at other police chasing and catching him and his partner.
>>> Remember Arizona is a gun happy state.
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From minador at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 04:26:14 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:26:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Inexpensive beginner's microscope?
In-Reply-To: <239635.59661.qm@web113614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <239635.59661.qm@web113614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <578034.82016.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Mikon at the Executive Inn has some specimen scopes (I don't think they're for slides, but they may have both types).? I'm not sure of the quality, but it could be a good deal for the price.? Is anyone familiar with their scopes?? I believe they're Russian microscopes.

Good luck!

----- Original Message ----
From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, February 6, 2010 1:59:26 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Inexpensive beginner's microscope?

I picked up a few thin sections in one of the rooms here in Tucson yesterday. These are my first.

I am considering a few of my options, but I was wondering if anyone could suggest a "budget-priced" beginner's microscope. To complicate things a bit, I want to be able to view the sample while I have my camera attached, so a parfocal trinocular is a must.

I have a good idea of what I need, but I'm still in the research phase. With one week of the Tucson shows done, another one still ahead and the Meteorite Auction later today, it will take a while for my wallet to recuperate, so I'm not ready to buy just yet.

Links off-list are appreciated.

Thanks.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


? ? ? 
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From info at meteorites.com.au  Sat Feb  6 05:34:25 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:34:25 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Odd UNWA
In-Reply-To: <4B6CEA19.1020901@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4B6CEA19.1020901@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <5274187F1A704FB5ACB941CEEA15A985@JeffPC>

Hi Eric,

I'll bet that is paired to a stone I had classified years ago (NWA 2732). I 
think it was an L5 from memory butI believe there have been several numbers 
this meteorite has been classified under now. They are generally L5, IMB, 
etc. It's also sold under the name El Arouss. Heaps of it around but a nice 
meteorite. Here's a pic of a high polished 5g slice of NWA 2732.

http://www.meteorites.com.au/collection/NWA 2732.jpg

Cheers,

Jeff



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:03 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Odd UNWA


> Those of you on Facebook: This is a very odd stone UNWA I sliced a few 
> hours ago. Full of iron, vesicles, very highly magnetic, odd metal, white 
> clasts and inclusions, and no visible chondrules to speak of.
> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1219094173
>
> Enjoy...
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From info at meteorites.com.au  Sat Feb  6 05:38:39 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:38:39 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Odd UNWA
In-Reply-To: <5274187F1A704FB5ACB941CEEA15A985@JeffPC>
References: <4B6CEA19.1020901@meteoritesusa.com>
	<5274187F1A704FB5ACB941CEEA15A985@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <B984DAB41D2A4C05889CEE960432139D@JeffPC>

Hi all,

Sorry the link broke. This one should work too:

http://www.meteorites.com.au/collection/NWA2732.jpg

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Kuyken" <info at meteorites.com.au>
To: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>; "Meteorite-list" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Odd UNWA


> Hi Eric,
>
> I'll bet that is paired to a stone I had classified years ago (NWA 2732). 
> I think it was an L5 from memory butI believe there have been several 
> numbers this meteorite has been classified under now. They are generally 
> L5, IMB, etc. It's also sold under the name El Arouss. Heaps of it around 
> but a nice meteorite. Here's a pic of a high polished 5g slice of NWA 
> 2732.
>
> http://www.meteorites.com.au/collection/NWA 2732.jpg
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> To: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:03 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Odd UNWA
>
>
>> Those of you on Facebook: This is a very odd stone UNWA I sliced a few 
>> hours ago. Full of iron, vesicles, very highly magnetic, odd metal, white 
>> clasts and inclusions, and no visible chondrules to speak of.
>> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1219094173
>>
>> Enjoy...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From almitt at kconline.com  Sat Feb  6 10:15:38 2010
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 10:15:38 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
In-Reply-To: <822da19a1002052114x27905cfdod77686ced1973f48@mail.gmail.com>
References: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC3A55@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu><4B6CCF5E.8000209@meteoritesusa.com>
	<822da19a1002052114x27905cfdod77686ced1973f48@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A14EB1450B1648CC925B8FD295A79313@StarmanPC>

Martin and all,

My thoughts exactly.

--AL Mitterling

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dark Matter" <freequarks at gmail.com>
To: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.


> Hello all,
>
> If Dr. Moore wants to share anything with this list, please let's all
> consider it an honor to be in his virtual presence regardless of the
> topic.
>
> thank you,
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> 
> wrote:
>> I'm sure all of us are very sorry to here of such a tragedy, and our 
>> hearts
>> go out to those families touched by such a devastating event, but I'm
>> reasonably sure people do not wish to hear more of the "gun issue" on the
>> meteorite list.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/2010 5:36 PM, Carleton Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> A coincidence that when the first pistol picture was posted a gunman 
>>> named
>>> Redondo shot a Gilbert Arizona policeman in the head and killed him as 
>>> well
>>> as shooting at other police chasing and catching him and his partner.
>>> Remember Arizona is a gun happy state.
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 




From almitt at kconline.com  Sat Feb  6 10:20:09 2010
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 10:20:09 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
In-Reply-To: <822da19a1002052114x27905cfdod77686ced1973f48@mail.gmail.com>
References: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC3A55@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu><4B6CCF5E.8000209@meteoritesusa.com>
	<822da19a1002052114x27905cfdod77686ced1973f48@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0F4E6C8019EB4452A147058B32879D36@StarmanPC>

Hi Martin and all,

I agree Martin. People can use there delete keys. One side wants to complain 
but then doesn't want to listen after opening up a can of worms. Best!

--AL Mitterling



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dark Matter"


> Hello all,
>
> If Dr. Moore wants to share anything with this list, please let's all
> consider it an honor to be in his virtual presence regardless of the
> topic.
>
> thank you,
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Meteorites USA wrote:
>> I'm sure all of us are very sorry to here of such a tragedy, and our 
>> hearts
>> go out to those families touched by such a devastating event, but I'm
>> reasonably sure people do not wish to hear more of the "gun issue" on the
>> meteorite list.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On 2/5/2010 5:36 PM, Carleton Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> A coincidence that when the first pistol picture was posted a gunman 
>>> named
>>> Redondo shot a Gilbert Arizona policeman in the head and killed him as 
>>> well
>>> as shooting at other police chasing and catching him and his partner.
>>> Remember Arizona is a gun happy state. 




From markig at westnet.com  Sat Feb  6 11:13:09 2010
From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:13:09 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
References: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC3A55@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu><4B6CCF5E.8000209@meteoritesusa.com><822da19a1002052114x27905cfdod77686ced1973f48@mail.gmail.com>
	<0F4E6C8019EB4452A147058B32879D36@StarmanPC>
Message-ID: <DBAF6B3FBB8F4BE5A0D8760DD17B7A5D@QED>

Right now its not a question of who wants to listen to what, or who opened 
what, but how just how long both sides want to listen to this continuing, 
apparently never ending debate.

I assume Martin and Al believe this topic has not been discussed 
sufficiently based on their posts.

Martin and Al - can you please confirm to the list that my assumption is 
correct, and after all of the debate, you still actively welcome postings on 
this topic - from emininent scientists as well as unknown collectors - and 
that you don't want to see this "can of worms" closed.

If I am mistaken, and you would like to see "the can of worms" closed, then 
please let the list know.

And if you think using the delete key is always the answer for whoever posts 
what, in my opinion you are missing the forest for the trees.  At some point 
you simply drive away people, and you end up the same group, not wanting or 
welcoming new people, the status quo.

And at the end of the day - perhaps that's just what most of the people who 
post to the list want - exercise using the delete key over expanding and 
promoting the image of the meteorite list around the world.

Your choice.

Thanks.

Mark Grossman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "al mitt" <almitt at kconline.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.


> Hi Martin and all,
>
> I agree Martin. People can use there delete keys. One side wants to 
> complain but then doesn't want to listen after opening up a can of worms. 
> Best!
>
> --AL Mitterling
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dark Matter"
>
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> If Dr. Moore wants to share anything with this list, please let's all
>> consider it an honor to be in his virtual presence regardless of the
>> topic.
>>
>> thank you,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Meteorites USA wrote:
>>> I'm sure all of us are very sorry to here of such a tragedy, and our 
>>> hearts
>>> go out to those families touched by such a devastating event, but I'm
>>> reasonably sure people do not wish to hear more of the "gun issue" on 
>>> the
>>> meteorite list.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/5/2010 5:36 PM, Carleton Moore wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A coincidence that when the first pistol picture was posted a gunman 
>>>> named
>>>> Redondo shot a Gilbert Arizona policeman in the head and killed him as 
>>>> well
>>>> as shooting at other police chasing and catching him and his partner.
>>>> Remember Arizona is a gun happy state.
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From illaenus at wp.pl  Sat Feb  6 11:26:13 2010
From: illaenus at wp.pl (Tomasz Jakubowski)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:26:13 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Ureilite NWA 6069
Message-ID: <4b6d982530ab26.39070635@wp.pl>

Dear List Members
I have for sale/trade a big museum size Ureilite NWA 6069 (prov.) 1828 
grams.
http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/Ureilite1877Grams#
Specimen have little oriented shape. Texture is typical for monomict 
ureilite :coarse grained olivine&#8217;s, vein like area filled by 
graphite/diamonds, triple junctions. Low shock stage.
Size of specimen is : 145x120x85mm, specimen looks much better in hand.

If You have a question please write to : illaenus at gmail.com


Kind Regards
Tomasz Jakubowski
IMCA #2321




From freequarks at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 11:40:07 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 09:40:07 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] WWND?
Message-ID: <822da19a1002060840h47b5b319v2b007bef1e844eb7@mail.gmail.com>

What would Nininger Do?

I apologize if I offended anyone about appreciating Dr. Moore's
message to the list. Often we forget just who is lurking here from
around the globe. When I saw a message from Carleton Moore, I
cross-checked the email address just in case, the read Eric's reply
just a half-hour later.

Being "some professor in a office somewhere that you have never met,"
I do carry a particular respect for those shoulders upon whose we
stand. With the recent loss of Brian Mason on December 3rd, I guess I
was just feeling old and wishing there was more respect for those
scientists who didn't just change the field of meteoritics forever,
but actually first discovered the the wonderful facts that so interest
us in these special stones, and make us return day after day to this
Meteorite List.

Brian Mason's obituary in the Washington Post concluded with a quote
from me that expressed a similar experience eight year ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/08/AR2009120804129.html

Having being "mentored" by the likes of David New, Chuck Lewis Tim
McCoy and others, I do worry about how many collectors believe the
mere ownership of meteorites is enough education about the science
behind meteorites.

All I wanted to convey in my reply to Eric and the List is that at any
moment, as we all experienced by the loss of Christian Anger, we can
loose the great personalities in our midst, and that sometimes we need
to savor the messenger and not stumble about whether or not the
content of the message is personally appropriate.

Thank you for your consideration.

-Martin


From markig at westnet.com  Sat Feb  6 11:52:32 2010
From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:52:32 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] WWND?
References: <822da19a1002060840h47b5b319v2b007bef1e844eb7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E758ECB2218A4AD995357E84FFD9E31C@QED>

Hi Martin,

Thank you for expressing your thoughts so eloquently and bringing much 
perspective to the table on this issue.

But it's a delicate balance.  Because you can also lose persons who can 
contribute to the list by driving them away by all of the off topic posts, 
no matter who posts them.  And when all of the wise elders become inactive 
for one reason or anohter - sometimes tragic reasons - who remains to carry 
their torch if you drive new people away?

we can
> loose the great personalities in our midst, and that sometimes we need
> to savor the messenger and not stumble about whether or not the
> content of the message is personally appropriate.

Mark

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dark Matter" <freequarks at gmail.com>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:40 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] WWND?


> What would Nininger Do?
>
> I apologize if I offended anyone about appreciating Dr. Moore's
> message to the list. Often we forget just who is lurking here from
> around the globe. When I saw a message from Carleton Moore, I
> cross-checked the email address just in case, the read Eric's reply
> just a half-hour later.
>
> Being "some professor in a office somewhere that you have never met,"
> I do carry a particular respect for those shoulders upon whose we
> stand. With the recent loss of Brian Mason on December 3rd, I guess I
> was just feeling old and wishing there was more respect for those
> scientists who didn't just change the field of meteoritics forever,
> but actually first discovered the the wonderful facts that so interest
> us in these special stones, and make us return day after day to this
> Meteorite List.
>
> Brian Mason's obituary in the Washington Post concluded with a quote
> from me that expressed a similar experience eight year ago.
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/08/AR2009120804129.html
>
> Having being "mentored" by the likes of David New, Chuck Lewis Tim
> McCoy and others, I do worry about how many collectors believe the
> mere ownership of meteorites is enough education about the science
> behind meteorites.
>
> All I wanted to convey in my reply to Eric and the List is that at any
> moment, as we all experienced by the loss of Christian Anger, we can
> loose the great personalities in our midst, and that sometimes we need
> to savor the messenger and not stumble about whether or not the
> content of the message is personally appropriate.
>
> Thank you for your consideration.
>
> -Martin
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr  Sat Feb  6 12:06:22 2010
From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:06:22 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] blue chondrule in a CM2
In-Reply-To: <348216.927.qm@web26306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <348216.927.qm@web26306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100206180622.6mfz01tdy1wkgsog@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>


Hi List,

Here are 3 pics of a genuine blue chondrule spotted upon breaking a  
fagment of the CM2 meteorite Tanezrouft 082 (purchased last June in  
Ensisheim, from A. Gouesslain/J.-L. Parodi, the meteorite finders).

See here:

http://www.agab.be/question/question.html

Question: what could be the origin of such a strange turquois-like  
blue color ?

Could it be due to some traces of Cu2+ salts neutralizing some  
refractory silicates  ? (despite tha fact that the presence of Cu was  
apparently not reported in the meteorite analysis, see the Met. Bull.  
writeup added in the URL).

Or could that just be (sometimes) the natural color of some (ortho)pyroxenes ?

Or olivine ?
However, I don't remember having ever seen any olivine showing such a  
"true" blue color. Shouldn't olivine (always?) rather be  
"olive-green", whatever its origin (terrestrial or asteroidal) ?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts or expertise.

My best,

Zelimir




From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Sat Feb  6 12:37:54 2010
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:37:54 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] blue chondrule in a CM2
In-Reply-To: <20100206180622.6mfz01tdy1wkgsog@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>
References: <348216.927.qm@web26306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<20100206180622.6mfz01tdy1wkgsog@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6DA8F2.1030606@usgs.gov>

Hibonite - Ca(Al,Ti,Mg)12O19 - in a CAI.  It can be gorgeous.

Jeff

On 2010-02-06 12:06 PM, Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr wrote:
>
> Hi List,
>
> Here are 3 pics of a genuine blue chondrule spotted upon breaking a 
> fagment of the CM2 meteorite Tanezrouft 082 (purchased last June in 
> Ensisheim, from A. Gouesslain/J.-L. Parodi, the meteorite finders).
>
> See here:
>
> http://www.agab.be/question/question.html
>
> Question: what could be the origin of such a strange turquois-like 
> blue color ?
>
> Could it be due to some traces of Cu2+ salts neutralizing some 
> refractory silicates  ? (despite tha fact that the presence of Cu was 
> apparently not reported in the meteorite analysis, see the Met. Bull. 
> writeup added in the URL).
>
> Or could that just be (sometimes) the natural color of some 
> (ortho)pyroxenes ?
>
> Or olivine ?
> However, I don't remember having ever seen any olivine showing such a 
> "true" blue color. Shouldn't olivine (always?) rather be 
> "olive-green", whatever its origin (terrestrial or asteroidal) ?
>
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts or expertise.
>
> My best,
>
> Zelimir
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Sat Feb  6 13:06:10 2010
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:06:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] WWND?
Message-ID: <1423.1265479570853.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Martin said: "What would Nininger do?"

Thank you, Martin, for sharing Dr. Brian Mason's obituary and your comments that mention many of those that, to paraphrase another great man's observation which certainly applies to these men..."never have so many owed so much to so few." 

On a personal note, I must mention how fortunate I was to be of advanced years when I made the study and collection of meteorites my avocation. I knew "out of the box" so to speak ..and being unencumbered by the lack of respect found in youth...that I owed every thing I could see or hear about my new found cosmic friends to the science and authorship of those luminaries you mentioned, plus countless other academic, authors, hunters, collectors and dealers.

My wife and I are enjoying our first Tucson Show and have been overwhelmed by the amount of material on display and the genuine warmth of our reception. It's great to find that everyone we have put a face to here is as slightly off the track as I am.

Count Deiro      

-----Original Message-----
>From: Dark Matter <freequarks at gmail.com>
>Sent: Feb 6, 2010 11:40 AM
>To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: [meteorite-list] WWND?
>
>What would Nininger Do?
>
>I apologize if I offended anyone about appreciating Dr. Moore's
>message to the list. Often we forget just who is lurking here from
>around the globe. When I saw a message from Carleton Moore, I
>cross-checked the email address just in case, the read Eric's reply
>just a half-hour later.
>
>Being "some professor in a office somewhere that you have never met,"
>I do carry a particular respect for those shoulders upon whose we
>stand. With the recent loss of Brian Mason on December 3rd, I guess I
>was just feeling old and wishing there was more respect for those
>scientists who didn't just change the field of meteoritics forever,
>but actually first discovered the the wonderful facts that so interest
>us in these special stones, and make us return day after day to this
>Meteorite List.
>
>Brian Mason's obituary in the Washington Post concluded with a quote
>from me that expressed a similar experience eight year ago.
>
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/08/AR2009120804129.html
>
>Having being "mentored" by the likes of David New, Chuck Lewis Tim
>McCoy and others, I do worry about how many collectors believe the
>mere ownership of meteorites is enough education about the science
>behind meteorites.
>
>All I wanted to convey in my reply to Eric and the List is that at any
>moment, as we all experienced by the loss of Christian Anger, we can
>loose the great personalities in our midst, and that sometimes we need
>to savor the messenger and not stumble about whether or not the
>content of the message is personally appropriate.
>
>Thank you for your consideration.
>
>-Martin
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Sat Feb  6 13:26:04 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 10:26:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 6,
	2010
Message-ID: <515388536.1457051265480764744.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_6_2010.html



From p.marmet at sunrise.ch  Sat Feb  6 13:42:15 2010
From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:42:15 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auction ending in 1 day: Ivuna, Nakhla,
	Zagami, Breitscheid, Orgueil, Siena, ...
Message-ID: <871799a21002061042s4bf340a7n7b293169e7ad8d72@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

I have 12 very rare meteorites ending in about one day:

http://shop.ebay.com/pema9/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=


Thank you,
Peter

Peter Marmet - IMCA #2747
Bern, Switzerland
http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 10:19:20 2010
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:19:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] tuson day 3
Message-ID: <297216.72290.qm@web57808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Good morning list.Another great day here in tucson.70 degrees and just great to meet more people.Well meteorite wise for me it was not a big day,but what I got,to me was the " big kahuna" of my meteorite buying.More to come in a minute.Some more people came into town.Graham ensor from england arrived,as well as matt morgan.More and more deals were made it seemed like everytime I looked into a room.I finally finished my meteorite rooms.We went over to visit eduardo in his room.He has the covert,ks main mass.He is also selling gibeon for $500 a kilo.He has some great end pieces.Then we went over to the howard johnson's and met up with the giroli bros. from uruguay.They excel in very large campo's.I also saw ali hmani and his pieces.He has a killer 5.5 kilo allende. As well as for my items I got yesterday.I got 3 more small sikhote-alin's with holes.Man not much left of those.They are almost gone.Then in the early afternoon,I went over and made a trade with
 bruno fectay.I aquired a 586 gram sikhote-alin (old stock).It's at least 20 years old and has incredible flowing MELT lines.I have never seen such lines.It also has some lipping on the bottom and some small flow lines.But to me it is the redish brown patina and crust that is on it.Mike farmer and jim strope have been coveting this piece all day.Sorry it is coming home with me.After that we all went to the sky bar for the birthday bash.It was a real good time.I was invlolved in a little skit with the meteoritemen.It was really funny.All the big wigs of the meteorite relm were there.I just want to thank bob haag for a real nice time this weekend and all that great esquel I got.So far I have gotten great pictures for my website to show all.Well that it for now.More meteorite buying maybe.I still have my eyes set on that 22 gram slice PBS.we'll see.Well on with the day and more 70 degree temps. Have a great day and its on to the blood auction tonight.



?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr  Sat Feb  6 17:20:08 2010
From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:20:08 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] blue chondrule in a CM2
In-Reply-To: <C7930240.10A5F%tbear1@cableone.net>
References: <C7930240.10A5F%tbear1@cableone.net>
Message-ID: <20100206232008.rz1pahn6vps8wcs8@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>

Hello Jeff, Matthias, Ted, all,

Your wise suggestions about the blue inclusion are highly appreciated.

I also first thought of hibonite that was mentioned in a similar  
discussion we had on the list a couple of years ago. At the time, Jeff  
Kuyken showed us a chondrule-like inclusion in Isheyevo and hibonite  
was one of the hypotheses retained . I don't really remember the  
detailed discussion that resulted but this info is now probably hidden  
somewhere in the archives .
By luck, this debate (with hibonite hypothesis) as well as the  
inclusion pics are still available on Jeff's site (Jeff K, I hope you  
don't mind if I provide the link):

http://www.meteorites.com.au/features/isheyevo.html

The blue color in Isheyevo (as it is in Allende shown by Ted), is more  
intense than the light blue shade of our TNZ "chondrule" so I did not  
retain at first that hypotheis. (also because all the terrestrial  
hibonites I have seen are dark brown but more often just black; the  
best crystals so far come from Madagascar and I have in my mineral  
collection a 6x4x3 cm single cristal, just full black- from the famous  
Betroka deposit).

I now realize the hibonite hypothesis is very likely.
But enstatite is another possibility indeed. I have a terrestrial  
enstatite sample that is blue-green. The synthetic enstatites we once  
had synthesized in the lab are logically white.

Two last questions (sorry for insisting):

1) Should we consider this just as a curiosity or does someone believe  
this could have some pertinent significance in the case of a CM2  
chondrite ?

2) How can we make sure the "round light blue circle" shown here is a  
chondrule or a CAI ? Jeff firmly states that the TNZ hibonite is  
embedded in a CAI and Ted shows the same in Allende. Would that imply  
the TNZ "circle" is also a CAI rather than a chondrule, despite of its  
quasi perferctly round shape ?

My best wishes,

Zelimir



Ted Bunch <tbear1 at cableone.net> a ??crit??:

> Dear Zelimir- Jeff beat me on the response.
>
> Attached is a true hibonite in an Allende CAI. Your blue object could be a
> lighter blue hibonite or an enstatite chondrule that, on occasion, has a
> blue hue depending on the light source, angle of illumination, light
> scattering, etc.
>
> Ted
>
>
> On 2/6/10 10:06 AM, "Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr" <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> Here are 3 pics of a genuine blue chondrule spotted upon breaking a
>> fagment of the CM2 meteorite Tanezrouft 082 (purchased last June in
>> Ensisheim, from A. Gouesslain/J.-L. Parodi, the meteorite finders).
>>
>> See here:
>>
>> http://www.agab.be/question/question.html
>>
>> Question: what could be the origin of such a strange turquois-like
>> blue color ?
>>
>> Could it be due to some traces of Cu2+ salts neutralizing some
>> refractory silicates  ? (despite tha fact that the presence of Cu was
>> apparently not reported in the meteorite analysis, see the Met. Bull.
>> writeup added in the URL).
>>
>> Or could that just be (sometimes) the natural color of some  
>> (ortho)pyroxenes ?
>>
>> Or olivine ?
>> However, I don't remember having ever seen any olivine showing such a
>> "true" blue color. Shouldn't olivine (always?) rather be
>> "olive-green", whatever its origin (terrestrial or asteroidal) ?
>>
>> Thanks for sharing your thoughts or expertise.
>>
>> My best,
>>
>> Zelimir
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>





From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Sat Feb  6 19:11:29 2010
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:11:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] blue chondrule in a CM2
In-Reply-To: <20100206232008.rz1pahn6vps8wcs8@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>
References: <C7930240.10A5F%tbear1@cableone.net>
	<20100206232008.rz1pahn6vps8wcs8@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6E0531.4010107@usgs.gov>

CAIs can be quite round.  The famous "Blue Angel" CAI was a fairly 
round, mm-size object in another CM chondrite, Murchison (this 
publication was in 1982-ish in GCA).  Not all hibonite in meteoritic 
CAIs is the same color.  The blue comes from Ti3+, formed under reducing 
conditions.  The blue ones are very well-known in CM chondrites, but 
hibonite goes all the way from blue to white depending on the conditions 
of formation and maybe bulk composition.

To tell if it's really a CAI, you'd probably have to analyze some grains 
or make a polished section.

If this is a hibonite-bearing CAI, is it important?  There is current 
research on hibonite in CMs, e.g. 
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0016703709003251. I would 
contact somebody like Andy Davis at U. Chicago, a coauthor on this 
paper, and get his opinion if you're thinking of donating this to science.

Jeff

On 2010-02-06 5:20 PM, Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr wrote:
> Hello Jeff, Matthias, Ted, all,
>
> Your wise suggestions about the blue inclusion are highly appreciated.
>
> I also first thought of hibonite that was mentioned in a similar 
> discussion we had on the list a couple of years ago. At the time, Jeff 
> Kuyken showed us a chondrule-like inclusion in Isheyevo and hibonite 
> was one of the hypotheses retained . I don't really remember the 
> detailed discussion that resulted but this info is now probably hidden 
> somewhere in the archives .
> By luck, this debate (with hibonite hypothesis) as well as the 
> inclusion pics are still available on Jeff's site (Jeff K, I hope you 
> don't mind if I provide the link):
>
> http://www.meteorites.com.au/features/isheyevo.html
>
> The blue color in Isheyevo (as it is in Allende shown by Ted), is more 
> intense than the light blue shade of our TNZ "chondrule" so I did not 
> retain at first that hypotheis. (also because all the terrestrial 
> hibonites I have seen are dark brown but more often just black; the 
> best crystals so far come from Madagascar and I have in my mineral 
> collection a 6x4x3 cm single cristal, just full black- from the famous 
> Betroka deposit).
>
> I now realize the hibonite hypothesis is very likely.
> But enstatite is another possibility indeed. I have a terrestrial 
> enstatite sample that is blue-green. The synthetic enstatites we once 
> had synthesized in the lab are logically white.
>
> Two last questions (sorry for insisting):
>
> 1) Should we consider this just as a curiosity or does someone believe 
> this could have some pertinent significance in the case of a CM2 
> chondrite ?
>
> 2) How can we make sure the "round light blue circle" shown here is a 
> chondrule or a CAI ? Jeff firmly states that the TNZ hibonite is 
> embedded in a CAI and Ted shows the same in Allende. Would that imply 
> the TNZ "circle" is also a CAI rather than a chondrule, despite of its 
> quasi perferctly round shape ?
>
> My best wishes,
>
> Zelimir
>
>
>
> Ted Bunch <tbear1 at cableone.net> a ??crit? :
>
>> Dear Zelimir- Jeff beat me on the response.
>>
>> Attached is a true hibonite in an Allende CAI. Your blue object could 
>> be a
>> lighter blue hibonite or an enstatite chondrule that, on occasion, has a
>> blue hue depending on the light source, angle of illumination, light
>> scattering, etc.
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>
>> On 2/6/10 10:06 AM, "Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr" <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi List,
>>>
>>> Here are 3 pics of a genuine blue chondrule spotted upon breaking a
>>> fagment of the CM2 meteorite Tanezrouft 082 (purchased last June in
>>> Ensisheim, from A. Gouesslain/J.-L. Parodi, the meteorite finders).
>>>
>>> See here:
>>>
>>> http://www.agab.be/question/question.html
>>>
>>> Question: what could be the origin of such a strange turquois-like
>>> blue color ?
>>>
>>> Could it be due to some traces of Cu2+ salts neutralizing some
>>> refractory silicates  ? (despite tha fact that the presence of Cu was
>>> apparently not reported in the meteorite analysis, see the Met. Bull.
>>> writeup added in the URL).
>>>
>>> Or could that just be (sometimes) the natural color of some 
>>> (ortho)pyroxenes ?
>>>
>>> Or olivine ?
>>> However, I don't remember having ever seen any olivine showing such a
>>> "true" blue color. Shouldn't olivine (always?) rather be
>>> "olive-green", whatever its origin (terrestrial or asteroidal) ?
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing your thoughts or expertise.
>>>
>>> My best,
>>>
>>> Zelimir
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From info at meteorites.com.au  Sat Feb  6 19:11:48 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:11:48 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] blue chondrule in a CM2
In-Reply-To: <20100206232008.rz1pahn6vps8wcs8@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>
References: <C7930240.10A5F%tbear1@cableone.net>
	<20100206232008.rz1pahn6vps8wcs8@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>
Message-ID: <4922A94A6233467DBADD2254E3AFC93D@JeffPC>

Hi Zelimir & all,

It was quite a few years ago now but at the time I think there were a few 
scientists who took a look at my pics and they all had a similar and 
independent opinion of "Hibonite". I would tend to go with the Hibonite 
theory too. These have all been found in meteorites with CAI's but I am yet 
to see anything remotely similar in an ordinary chondrite. Mine is slightly 
different to yours in the respect that it has been sliced right through the 
middle. I have slightly polished that endcut to remove previous heavier 
polishing marks and there was no change in appearance of my inclusion. It 
seems to be a solid blue CAI or chondrule.

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
To: "Ted Bunch" <tbear1 at cableone.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] blue chondrule in a CM2


Hello Jeff, Matthias, Ted, all,

Your wise suggestions about the blue inclusion are highly appreciated.

I also first thought of hibonite that was mentioned in a similar
discussion we had on the list a couple of years ago. At the time, Jeff
Kuyken showed us a chondrule-like inclusion in Isheyevo and hibonite
was one of the hypotheses retained . I don't really remember the
detailed discussion that resulted but this info is now probably hidden
somewhere in the archives .
By luck, this debate (with hibonite hypothesis) as well as the
inclusion pics are still available on Jeff's site (Jeff K, I hope you
don't mind if I provide the link):

http://www.meteorites.com.au/features/isheyevo.html

The blue color in Isheyevo (as it is in Allende shown by Ted), is more
intense than the light blue shade of our TNZ "chondrule" so I did not
retain at first that hypotheis. (also because all the terrestrial
hibonites I have seen are dark brown but more often just black; the
best crystals so far come from Madagascar and I have in my mineral
collection a 6x4x3 cm single cristal, just full black- from the famous
Betroka deposit).

I now realize the hibonite hypothesis is very likely.
But enstatite is another possibility indeed. I have a terrestrial
enstatite sample that is blue-green. The synthetic enstatites we once
had synthesized in the lab are logically white.

Two last questions (sorry for insisting):

1) Should we consider this just as a curiosity or does someone believe
this could have some pertinent significance in the case of a CM2
chondrite ?

2) How can we make sure the "round light blue circle" shown here is a
chondrule or a CAI ? Jeff firmly states that the TNZ hibonite is
embedded in a CAI and Ted shows the same in Allende. Would that imply
the TNZ "circle" is also a CAI rather than a chondrule, despite of its
quasi perferctly round shape ?

My best wishes,

Zelimir



Ted Bunch <tbear1 at cableone.net> a ??crit? :

> Dear Zelimir- Jeff beat me on the response.
>
> Attached is a true hibonite in an Allende CAI. Your blue object could be a
> lighter blue hibonite or an enstatite chondrule that, on occasion, has a
> blue hue depending on the light source, angle of illumination, light
> scattering, etc.
>
> Ted
>
>
> On 2/6/10 10:06 AM, "Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr" <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> Here are 3 pics of a genuine blue chondrule spotted upon breaking a
>> fagment of the CM2 meteorite Tanezrouft 082 (purchased last June in
>> Ensisheim, from A. Gouesslain/J.-L. Parodi, the meteorite finders).
>>
>> See here:
>>
>> http://www.agab.be/question/question.html
>>
>> Question: what could be the origin of such a strange turquois-like
>> blue color ?
>>
>> Could it be due to some traces of Cu2+ salts neutralizing some
>> refractory silicates  ? (despite tha fact that the presence of Cu was
>> apparently not reported in the meteorite analysis, see the Met. Bull.
>> writeup added in the URL).
>>
>> Or could that just be (sometimes) the natural color of some 
>> (ortho)pyroxenes ?
>>
>> Or olivine ?
>> However, I don't remember having ever seen any olivine showing such a
>> "true" blue color. Shouldn't olivine (always?) rather be
>> "olive-green", whatever its origin (terrestrial or asteroidal) ?
>>
>> Thanks for sharing your thoughts or expertise.
>>
>> My best,
>>
>> Zelimir
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>



______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From astroroks at hotmail.com  Sat Feb  6 19:53:51 2010
From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:53:51 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <99D8EBF4A4E247388EBBB17F95F8F66E@whitmerjbqtim1>
References: <99D8EBF4A4E247388EBBB17F95F8F66E@whitmerjbqtim1>
Message-ID: <COL113-W53C30179545095C90A6569B1520@phx.gbl>


I am an uninformed reader but, where can I find these
"Meteorite Laws"?  I usually only carry a copy of the
Federal Regulations Title 43 Part 8360, that allows me 
to remove mineral specimens from public lands, should
I run into an agent who is not familiar with the law.
But, I am not familiar with "Meteorite Laws".  I know
that Michelle Knapps had no trouble claiming and selling
the Peekskill meteorite.
Just need to know where to find these said new laws..
Thanks!  Miss seeing everyone in Tucson. Had to have
a Knee tune up after tromping around Egypt.
Dennis
----------------------------------------
> From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:39:46 -0500
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
>
> Hiya Carl, gun lovers and haters:
>
> I was merely stating the law as it now stands. If a meteorite falls on your
> property, you own it. An open and shut case. If the Smithsonian wants to
> appeal to the Supreme Court, the Court could possibly rule that current
> meteorite laws are unconstitutional. It's extremely unlikely they would hear
> the case. It's highly unlikely even a Circuit judge would strike down
> current meteorite laws as unconstitutional. Or any judge for that matter.
> The Smithsonian has the lawyers and the funding of the federal gov't backing
> them, they could try to argue the laws are unconstitutional, highly unlikely
> as there is practically no chance they would win.
>
> What they could do is go straight to the President and get either a
> presidential decree or have the Justice Dep't write some memos like they
> did legalizing torture. Again not a chance.
>
> More likely they could get a Congressman to introduce a bill changing the
> meteorite laws, but it would never make it out of the first round of
> sub-committes.
>
> Possession might be nine tenths of the law, but I'll be dollars to donuts
> the Smithsonian gives it back.
>
>
> Phil Whitmer
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/

From photophlow at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 20:26:51 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:26:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Lorton Meteorite
Message-ID: <140631.59533.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Dennis/List

Click on the link below and this might help with laws on ownership of meteorites.

Shawn Alan


http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M%26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_GIF&classic=YES






[meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
Dennis Miller astroroks at hotmail.com 
Sat Feb 6 19:53:51 EST 2010 

Previous message: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 
Next message: [meteorite-list] Odd UNWA 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am an uninformed reader but, where can I find these 
"Meteorite Laws"? I usually only carry a copy of the 
Federal Regulations Title 43 Part 8360, that allows me 
to remove mineral specimens from public lands, should 
I run into an agent who is not familiar with the law. 
But, I am not familiar with "Meteorite Laws". I know 
that Michelle Knapps had no trouble claiming and selling 
the Peekskill meteorite. 
Just need to know where to find these said new laws.. 
Thanks! Miss seeing everyone in Tucson. Had to have 
a Knee tune up after tromping around Egypt. 
Dennis 
---------------------------------------- 

> From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com 

> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:39:46 -0500 

> Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 

> 

> Hiya Carl, gun lovers and haters: 

> 

> I was merely stating the law as it now stands. If a meteorite falls on your 

> property, you own it. An open and shut case. If the Smithsonian wants to 

> appeal to the Supreme Court, the Court could possibly rule that current 

> meteorite laws are unconstitutional. It's extremely unlikely they would hear 

> the case. It's highly unlikely even a Circuit judge would strike down 

> current meteorite laws as unconstitutional. Or any judge for that matter. 

> The Smithsonian has the lawyers and the funding of the federal gov't backing 

> them, they could try to argue the laws are unconstitutional, highly unlikely 

> as there is practically no chance they would win. 

> 

> What they could do is go straight to the President and get either a 

> presidential decree or have the Justice Dep't write some memos like they 

> did legalizing torture. Again not a chance. 

> 

> More likely they could get a Congressman to introduce a bill changing the 

> meteorite laws, but it would never make it out of the first round of 

> sub-committes. 

> 

> Possession might be nine tenths of the law, but I'll be dollars to donuts 

> the Smithsonian gives it back. 

> 

> 

> Phil Whitmer 

> 

> ______________________________________________ 

> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 

> Meteorite-list mailing list 

> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

_________________________________________________________________ 
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/ 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Previous message: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 
Next message: [meteorite-list] Odd UNWA 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 

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From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 20:34:48 2010
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:34:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson show on facebook
Message-ID: <685922.66392.qm@web45402.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Dear list members,
i have seen many great pics of the Tucson show on facebook than i did on here, I'm very thankful to John Hamphries and Gary Fujuhara who took us to Tucson and showed us some moments they have lived, like
Mike farmare's material, michael blood auction, the material that is going arround there, persons I have dealt with and never seen their faces, i have seen a pic of my bro Said haddany, awsome, i have to say you have great times and enjoy! let's share it someday!

Facebook did better than met list!

I'm getting new material,  slices, individuals, wholesale, whatever you want! just get ready! 

Rock on!

Aziz  

saffron guy (my new name)


      



From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Sat Feb  6 20:43:54 2010
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:43:54 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
Message-ID: <6177DF2AD3E14F2E968599B603501D7F@whitmerjbqtim1>

When you acquire clear title to a piece of property, you 
also get landowners rights.  These rights are written into 
the state constitutions or the bill of rights.  You own
everything above, below and on your land.  Once a 
meteorite enters your air space, you own it. Anyone 
who tries to take it can be charged with theft, here in 
Indiana, felony theft.  If I was the landowner in the 
Lorton case, I would file felony theft charges against
whoever stole my property. 

Since there are no specific laws pertaining to meteorites,
the courts would decide the cases by legal precedent.
This was all worked out by the time of the  Hodges
meteorite case in 1954. 

If you think the landowners rights are unconstitutional,
and you want to defy precedent, lots of luck to you
and your lawyers, as you sue for ownership of someone
else's property.  There's no way these rules are changing
anytime soon, especially not for meteorites. 

Phil Whitmer



I am an uninformed reader but, where can I find these 
"Meteorite Laws"? I usually only carry a copy of the 
Federal Regulations Title 43 Part 8360, that allows me 
to remove mineral specimens from public lands, should 
I run into an agent who is not familiar with the law. 
But, I am not familiar with "Meteorite Laws". I know 
that Michelle Knapps had no trouble claiming and selling 
the Peekskill meteorite. 
Just need to know where to find these said new laws.. 
Thanks! Miss seeing everyone in Tucson. Had to have 
a Knee tune up after tromping around Egypt. 
Dennis 


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  6 21:56:18 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:56:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Meteorite Auction 2010
Message-ID: <924339.317.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Lister,

I am wondering how the Tucson Meteorite Auction 2010 is going and if anyone knows what the selling prices are going for the auctioned meteoirtes?

http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/TucsonAuction10.html

Shawn Alan


From almitt at kconline.com  Sat Feb  6 22:08:27 2010
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:08:27 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
In-Reply-To: <DBAF6B3FBB8F4BE5A0D8760DD17B7A5D@QED>
References: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC3A55@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu><4B6CCF5E.8000209@meteoritesusa.com><822da19a1002052114x27905cfdod77686ced1973f48@mail.gmail.com>
	<0F4E6C8019EB4452A147058B32879D36@StarmanPC>
	<DBAF6B3FBB8F4BE5A0D8760DD17B7A5D@QED>
Message-ID: <20A75E96E8A44AF98E97CEF1F82E26CE@StarmanPC>

Mark,

I'd just rather not comment on this but since you have attempted to put 
Martin and me in the bad guy spot, and words into my mouth I'll comment. I 
am commenting for myself and not Martin.

First you have made 4 or 5 posts on this subject, mainly trying to end the 
debate. I have only made two (one by mistake) comments until this post, 
supporting a post by another member. While I respect some of what you are 
saying about letting the topic die, and I believe this had no place on this 
list (there are plenty of other forums for this) there is nothing wrong with 
addressing what another member commented needlessly and out of place on. If 
this member had simply kept it to himself, then the issue would not still be 
blazing away.

You seem to have attempted to put yourself into some sort of authoritative 
figure here and put words into my mouth and I don't appreciate that. I don't 
appreciate the condescending way you went about it. You again have posted on 
the subject rather than let it die. So you are equally guilty of keeping 
this thread alive. Again if you don't like reading something then delete it.

You have also put yourself in the roll of list moderator which you are not. 
While I appreciate that you don't care for the thread I'd appreciate it if 
you don't drag me into to all this which you did. Now maybe we can get back 
to meteorites and all this can die.

--AL Mitterling


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Grossman" <markig at westnet.com>
To: "al mitt" <almitt at kconline.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.


> Right now its not a question of who wants to listen to what, or who opened 
> what, but how just how long both sides want to listen to this continuing, 
> apparently never ending debate.
>
> I assume Martin and Al believe this topic has not been discussed 
> sufficiently based on their posts.
>
> Martin and Al - can you please confirm to the list that my assumption is 
> correct, and after all of the debate, you still actively welcome postings 
> on this topic - from emininent scientists as well as unknown collectors - 
> and that you don't want to see this "can of worms" closed.
>
> If I am mistaken, and you would like to see "the can of worms" closed, 
> then please let the list know.
>
> And if you think using the delete key is always the answer for whoever 
> posts what, in my opinion you are missing the forest for the trees.  At 
> some point you simply drive away people, and you end up the same group, 
> not wanting or welcoming new people, the status quo.
>
> And at the end of the day - perhaps that's just what most of the people 
> who post to the list want - exercise using the delete key over expanding 
> and promoting the image of the meteorite list around the world.
>
> Your choice.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mark Grossman
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "al mitt" <almitt at kconline.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
>
>
>> Hi Martin and all,
>>
>> I agree Martin. People can use there delete keys. One side wants to 
>> complain but then doesn't want to listen after opening up a can of worms. 
>> Best!
>>
>> --AL Mitterling
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Dark Matter"
>>
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> If Dr. Moore wants to share anything with this list, please let's all
>>> consider it an honor to be in his virtual presence regardless of the
>>> topic.
>>>
>>> thank you,
>>>
>>> Martin 




From markig at westnet.com  Sat Feb  6 22:58:03 2010
From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:58:03 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
References: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC3A55@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu><4B6CCF5E.8000209@meteoritesusa.com><822da19a1002052114x27905cfdod77686ced1973f48@mail.gmail.com><0F4E6C8019EB4452A147058B32879D36@StarmanPC><DBAF6B3FBB8F4BE5A0D8760DD17B7A5D@QED>
	<20A75E96E8A44AF98E97CEF1F82E26CE@StarmanPC>
Message-ID: <6A433A16C4234DD7BE5BF9478F1F4875@QED>

Hi Al,

I haven't tried to put anyone in a bad spot, and I haven't tried to act like 
a moderator.  If you remember, I asked for some guidance from the moderator, 
who has still remained silent on this issue.

And as far as what belongs on this list, and what does not - I believe there 
are incredible things said on this list that are tolerated, but for some 
reasons, my comments which I believe are right on target and which do not 
even come close to some of the language displayed here in the past, is not 
tolerated.  In my opinion, there is a double standard here.

So I will make it easier for everyone.  I think it is time that I take a 
vacation from this list - I am going to unsubscribe.  (I can hear the 
hoorays already :-).  I don't want to be a thorn in anyone's side anymore, 
nor do I want some of the posts to distract me from what a wonderful hobby 
meteorite collecting is.  I unsubscribed for a short while back at Christmas 
time, when I thought some of the language on some of the posts was pretty 
abusive and not keeping in the spirit of the season.  I came back, but 
didn't think things would reach the point they have in such a short time. 
The delete key only works so far for me - ultimately, for me at least, and I 
am willing to bet for some others as well, it leads to an unsubscribe.

And if you want to see why I got into meteorite collecting and what it means 
to me, take a look at Notes & Records of the Royal Society, Sept/Oct 2007 - 
that's the peered reviewed scholarly journal of the Royal Society - I had a 
paper involving the history of meteorites published in that issue.  I 
mentioned this to the list back when, and if I recall, only received one 
response off line.  And I have another paper involving the history of 
meteorites presently in submission and under peer review with another 
scholarly journal on the history of science.

If anyone would like to learn if and when that second article is published, 
you can send me an email to my private email address.  I think it is kind of 
a neat article.

Thanks to the handful of dealers of whom I have learned so much, and who 
helped me build a small but impressive historical collection, and thanks to 
the handful of members who have been most helpful to me in the past in 
answering so many of my questions.

I hope everyone is successful at Tuscon and obtains the specimens - as well 
as the knowledge - they desire.

And I do hope that everyone is satisfied, or will eventually be satisfied, 
with how the list evolves in the future.

Mark

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "al mitt" <almitt at kconline.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.


> Mark,
>
> I'd just rather not comment on this but since you have attempted to put 
> Martin and me in the bad guy spot, and words into my mouth I'll comment. I 
> am commenting for myself and not Martin.
>
> First you have made 4 or 5 posts on this subject, mainly trying to end the 
> debate. I have only made two (one by mistake) comments until this post, 
> supporting a post by another member. While I respect some of what you are 
> saying about letting the topic die, and I believe this had no place on 
> this list (there are plenty of other forums for this) there is nothing 
> wrong with addressing what another member commented needlessly and out of 
> place on. If this member had simply kept it to himself, then the issue 
> would not still be blazing away.
>
> You seem to have attempted to put yourself into some sort of authoritative 
> figure here and put words into my mouth and I don't appreciate that. I 
> don't appreciate the condescending way you went about it. You again have 
> posted on the subject rather than let it die. So you are equally guilty of 
> keeping this thread alive. Again if you don't like reading something then 
> delete it.
>
> You have also put yourself in the roll of list moderator which you are 
> not. While I appreciate that you don't care for the thread I'd appreciate 
> it if you don't drag me into to all this which you did. Now maybe we can 
> get back to meteorites and all this can die.
>
> --AL Mitterling
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark Grossman" <markig at westnet.com>
> To: "al mitt" <almitt at kconline.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
>
>
>> Right now its not a question of who wants to listen to what, or who 
>> opened what, but how just how long both sides want to listen to this 
>> continuing, apparently never ending debate.
>>
>> I assume Martin and Al believe this topic has not been discussed 
>> sufficiently based on their posts.
>>
>> Martin and Al - can you please confirm to the list that my assumption is 
>> correct, and after all of the debate, you still actively welcome postings 
>> on this topic - from emininent scientists as well as unknown collectors - 
>> and that you don't want to see this "can of worms" closed.
>>
>> If I am mistaken, and you would like to see "the can of worms" closed, 
>> then please let the list know.
>>
>> And if you think using the delete key is always the answer for whoever 
>> posts what, in my opinion you are missing the forest for the trees.  At 
>> some point you simply drive away people, and you end up the same group, 
>> not wanting or welcoming new people, the status quo.
>>
>> And at the end of the day - perhaps that's just what most of the people 
>> who post to the list want - exercise using the delete key over expanding 
>> and promoting the image of the meteorite list around the world.
>>
>> Your choice.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Mark Grossman
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "al mitt" <almitt at kconline.com>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:20 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona firearms.
>>
>>
>>> Hi Martin and all,
>>>
>>> I agree Martin. People can use there delete keys. One side wants to 
>>> complain but then doesn't want to listen after opening up a can of 
>>> worms. Best!
>>>
>>> --AL Mitterling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Dark Matter"
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> If Dr. Moore wants to share anything with this list, please let's all
>>>> consider it an honor to be in his virtual presence regardless of the
>>>> topic.
>>>>
>>>> thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From arizonakeith at cox.net  Sun Feb  7 03:35:12 2010
From: arizonakeith at cox.net (Arizona Keith)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 01:35:12 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Photos,
	Mayhem Birthday Bash & Meteorite Auction
Message-ID: <F711421EB04D4C68BFC358EBA9A2D57E@Keith2>

Hello List

Here some photos from the Eleventh Annual Meteor Mayhem Birthday Bash & 
Harvey

http://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonaviking/sets/72157623244741849/

and Tucson Meteorite Auction 2010 Tonight

http://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonaviking/sets/72157623369310888/

Only have time to post a few, more coming soon.

Enjoy
Arizona Keith 



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 10:11:25 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:11:25 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Sunday Only 30%-OFF Tucson Sale
Message-ID: <e51421551002070711l79b967asc49ef666a5a2f805@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks!

If any of you have access to Facebook, check out Gary Fujihara's and
John Humphries' photo galleries.  As Aziz said in a prior posting,
they are both doing a great job of posting photos and updates of the
Tucson show.  Thanks to Arizona Keith as well for sharing his photos
here on the List.  It's the next best thing to being there for us
shut-ins.

For those collectors who are stuck at home, I am offering a 30%
discount on *everything* in my store - no exceptions.  Just use the
coupon code "tucson" at checkout to get the discount.  (minimum order
is $10) - the coupon code is case sensitive, so type it exactly as
shown.

http://www.galactic-stone.com

This sale is only good until midnight tonight (12:00am EST).

Thanks for looking and enjoy the show!

MikeG


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Sun Feb  7 11:12:32 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:12:32 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite  (Schmitt is wrong)
In-Reply-To: <140631.59533.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <140631.59533.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002701caa810$5b746be0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Hello Shawn,

please don't use that article from Schmitt any longer,

because it is incorrect and misleading.




Schmitt writes (with a quotation, where he left out the most important
words), that the UNESCO convention of 1970 would include meteorites.

And inanother place:

"This Convention, ratified
by over 90 states, provides for tracking and retrieving from reciprocating
states, cultural property including meteorites."

That is wrong. Full stop.

The point about Switzerland is wrong too.


Huh, would have to rummage my old emails,
I once occupied myself with that Schmitt-topic...

A here it is one o them (see below)...

(Perhaps I should add, that also technically the UNESCO convention can't
protect anything, because - as given in the text of the convention - it has
to be ratified by each nation first, and each nation individually has to
create an individual list of items of their national heritage.
Only if that has happened and if meteorites are found in the individual
national heritage lists (like e.g. in Australia) the convention is
effective).

And anyway, other meteorite laws...
In most constitutional countries personal property belongs to the strongest
personal rights and is especially protected.
In such countries od rule of law, disappropriation (with ot without
compensation) by a state or to limit the use of a property (like e.g. to
forbid to sell to other countries) is grave intervention of the individual
personal rights, which, if done, requires a especially strong resons,
usually the pubic weal or interest.
You know, cases of land dissapropriation for building a highway ect. 

In most of these constitutional nations, legislation and judicature are
separated. So not the law is decisive - a judge or a court have to decide.

Furthermore such constitutional countries do have a interdiction of
arbitrary laws, laws made for only a single case are not effective.
Such laws can exist, but a court has to decide and it is also possible to
proof them by a court, whether they are constitutional or not.

So. If e.g. a country like Switzerland or Denmark, where only every 30 or 80
years a meteorite falls, would have a special meteorite law (which they
don't have),
it would be highly doubtful, whether that law would be valuable.

And if a country has a law, which allows a disappropriation by or a right of
preemption by (like Switzerland has) or a compulsory sale of a meteorite to
the state, because it is an object of high public or scientific importance
or interest,
this interest has to be justified and proven.

Switzerland e.g. would have most probably difficulties to do that.
If one sees, that the state wasn't willing to preserve the historical
Bally-meteorite-collection, the most important meteorite collection of
Switzerland and that no single public institute took advantage from the
preemption to buy it, when it was liquidated a few years ago,
or if one keeps in mind, that no official efforts to find the meteorite of
the Lake Constance fireball were undertaken (e.g. in Romania the state was
hunting for the last fireballs)
and if one sees, that Switzerland made no use of that very law with the
large rock crystal, found in Switzerland by commercial rock hunters, but
will buy it from them for several millions,
than a Suisse court most probably would state, that a meteorite isn't of the
necessary importance, the law requires.

Or in other words, a confused meteoricist can have as many laws for
meteorites as he wants, 
whether these laws are valid at all or in the very individual case
 - in most constitutional countries will have to decide a judge.

I'm convinced, that in some countries, the meteorite laws are in that
respect somewhat problematic, to express it politely.

Problem is, that most of these people who are producing meteorites in
finding them, are to civilized to waste their time with such rubbish,
to fight in court for stones,
and so theses laws never were proven, whether they are valid or
constitutional at all.

Anyway, as doubtful some meteorite laws, I think meanwhile most see,
that meteorite laws in general have a very negative effect.

In Australia e.g.the strain to science is so high,
that first voices appear, to revise the laws, that finally again meteorites
will be found there again.
Here a suggestion to revise the laws from Pickard of the Bathurst
observatory.
http://www.arts.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/88073/bathurst-observator
y.pdf


Perhaps, in the end, in my eyes that laws debate isn't a discussion about
ethics, as it sometimes is imposed.
Yesterday I googled for the Chinese law for protection of cultural relics,
whether meteorites could be afflicted too. (You know, China asks everywhere
its fossils back).
There I stumbled by chance over a Presidental Decree from the Philippines
of 1974 (!) - who would ever known, that since 36 years meteorites,
tektites, the rizalites, Anda-tektites from the Philippines are cultural
property...

A decree from the dictator Marcos.
I highly doubt, that this person can be regarded as an ethical instance.
And that unethical laws can exist, that we do know especially in Germany,
if we think back to the Nazi-laws of disappropriation.

So we should avoid the term "ethics", in the meteorite laws debate.


Best!
Martin



.....
Good evening again,

at the moment I feel a little bit taken for a fool.
May you help me?

We read and hear often in such discussions, that some nations tell that
meteorites fall under the UNESCO Convention on the Means of Prohibiting and
Preventing the Illicit Import, Export and Transfer of Ownership of Cultural
Property, as reasons for respective laws.

Like e.g. McEwens, Schmitt & Barristers herald with a chest note of firm
conviction as a fact in their paper of 2001 about meteorite laws:
"This Convention, ratified
by over 90 states, provides for tracking and retrieving from reciprocating
states, cultural property including meteorites."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2001/pdf/5150.pdf

Well, therefore I read now the convention (in German and in English).

"including meteorites" is untrue. 

Meteorites are NOT mentioned in the convention, with no single word at all.

And here is the wording of the definition of such "cultural property",
synonym with "cultural heritage" later in the text of the convention.
Quote:

"Article 1 

For the purposes of this Convention, the term `cultural property' means
property which, on religious or secular grounds, is specifically designated
by each State as being of importance for archaeology, prehistory, history,
literature, art or science..."

Followed by a catalogue of items of such cultural property.
A catalogue is a list. The intention to list all items as completely as
possible is perceptible in the sometimes detailed way of description.

Quote continued:
"... and which belongs to the following categories: 

(a) Rare collections and specimens of fauna, flora, minerals and anatomy,
and objects of palaeontological interest; 

(b) property relating to history, including the history of science and
technology and military and social history, to the life of national leaders,
thinkers, scientists and artist and to events of national importance; 

(c) products of archaeological excavations (including regular and
clandestine) or of archaeological discoveries ; 

(d) elements of artistic or historical monuments or archaeological sites
which have been dismembered; 

(e) antiquities more than one hundred years old, such as inscriptions, coins
and engraved seals; 

(f) objects of ethnological interest; 

(g) property of artistic interest, such as: 

(i) pictures, paintings and drawings produced entirely by hand on any
support and in any material (excluding industrial designs and manu-factured
articles decorated by hand); 

(ii) original works of statuary art and sculpture in any material; 

(iii) original engravings, prints and lithographs ; 

(iv) original artistic assemblages and montages in any material; 

(h) rare manuscripts and incunabula, old books, documents and publications
of special interest (historical, artistic, scientific, literary, etc.)
singly or in collections ; 

(i) postage, revenue and similar stamps, singly or in collections; 

(j) archives, including sound, photographic and cinematographic archives; 

(k) articles of furniture more than one hundred years old and old musical
instruments."

Where are the meteorites?

Central point of the convention is the "cultural heritage".
See also:

"Article 4 

The States Parties to this Convention recognize that for the purpose of the
Convention property which belongs to the following categories forms part of
the cultural heritage of each State: 

(a) Cultural property created by the individual or collective genius of
nationals of the State concerned, and cultural property of importance to the
State concerned created within the territory of that State by foreign
nationals or stateless persons resident within such territory; 

(b) cultural property found within the national territory; 

(c) cultural property acquired by archaeological, ethnological or natural
science missions, with the consent of the competent authorities of the
country of origin of such property; 

(d) cultural property which has been the subject of a freely agreed
exchange; 

(e) cultural property received as a gift or purchased legally with the
consent of the competent authorities of the country of origin of such
property."

Please can someone help me, what the exact semantics and meaning of the
English word "heritage" is?

The German version of the convention has the word "Erbe" for "heritage".
"Erbe" means the object, that is given from an antecessor to his progeny, it
is something inherited, it originated in past, the factor of time is in that
word. Heritage is something long-standing, traditional, passed-down, heirs
inherit a heritage.

And here we are? The only word in the convention, which could be so
overstretched, that one could tear it over meteorites is

"(a) Rare collections and specimens of fauna, flora, MINERALS and anatomy,
and objects of palaeontological interest"

That sentence, especially if you read the other points (b) to (e) is there
to avoid, that parts of museum collections will be trafficked.

Well, is there anybody out,
who can enlighten me, how a new fall of a meteorite - hence an object, that
since beginnings of the solar system had no contact with humans or Earth at
all, can be a priori part of the cultural heritage of a country??

Where are the cultural properties of a stone, which is lying unnoticed by
mankind, animals, dinosaurs in the wasteland and which hadn't formed the
landscape?
Why the Antarctic finds then aren't protected as cultural heritage?
How a stone, where nobody knows, whether it is a meteorite or terrestrial,
can be exported illegally, if only later in a lab it is positively tested
and recognized as meteorite?

Did someone write a poem about Hughes 057?
Do we have any nomad songs about NWA 2487?
When Tagish Lake felt, were there a sect crawling out the bushes: The
prophecy is fulfilled?

When happened the fall of Carancas? 100 years ago?
If a nomad pics up a black stone, is this than a cultural act?
Stays the stone cultural property, if it was no meteorite but a sandstone?

Please Jerry, don't paint any meteorite falls anymore, the stones will be
immediately cultural heritage. 

Here is the full text of the convention:
http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=13039&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=
201.html


I personally see another interesting point. The convention was passed in
1970.

The earliest article, bemoaning that there are meteorites dealt and where a
prohibitive legislation was demanded, I could found in internet, stem from
1991.
Maybe someone could find some earlier ones?
Else one is tempted to get an impression, that in the early 90ies scientist
found out, ooops, there are private individuals finding a lot of new
meteorites, let's get them all! And others will tell: Sounds like trivial
greed.

I for my part think, that the effort to try refer to the convention, is
ridiculous.
It never was made, nor meant for meteorites.
The only straws to clutch at, is the single word "minerals", torn out of the
context.
With that construction, the export of coal, oil and cement would fall under
the Convention of Cultural Property too.

(Note the title, it says "Ownership"...see my last post).

To pretend, that meteorites would be covered by the convention, is
absolutely inappropriate.
Therefore the respective countries should make a national lex meteoritica
each or they should let it be.


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn
Alan
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Februar 2010 02:27
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; astroroks at hotmail.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite

Dennis/List

Click on the link below and this might help with laws on ownership of
meteorites.

Shawn Alan


http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M%
26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCR
EEN_GIF&classic=YES






[meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
Dennis Miller astroroks at hotmail.com 
Sat Feb 6 19:53:51 EST 2010 

Previous message: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 
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I am an uninformed reader but, where can I find these 
"Meteorite Laws"? I usually only carry a copy of the 
Federal Regulations Title 43 Part 8360, that allows me 
to remove mineral specimens from public lands, should 
I run into an agent who is not familiar with the law. 
But, I am not familiar with "Meteorite Laws". I know 
that Michelle Knapps had no trouble claiming and selling 
the Peekskill meteorite. 
Just need to know where to find these said new laws.. 
Thanks! Miss seeing everyone in Tucson. Had to have 
a Knee tune up after tromping around Egypt. 
Dennis 
---------------------------------------- 

> From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com 

> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:39:46 -0500 

> Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 

> 

> Hiya Carl, gun lovers and haters: 

> 

> I was merely stating the law as it now stands. If a meteorite falls on
your 

> property, you own it. An open and shut case. If the Smithsonian wants to 

> appeal to the Supreme Court, the Court could possibly rule that current 

> meteorite laws are unconstitutional. It's extremely unlikely they would
hear 

> the case. It's highly unlikely even a Circuit judge would strike down 

> current meteorite laws as unconstitutional. Or any judge for that matter. 

> The Smithsonian has the lawyers and the funding of the federal gov't
backing 

> them, they could try to argue the laws are unconstitutional, highly
unlikely 

> as there is practically no chance they would win. 

> 

> What they could do is go straight to the President and get either a 

> presidential decree or have the Justice Dep't write some memos like they 

> did legalizing torture. Again not a chance. 

> 

> More likely they could get a Congressman to introduce a bill changing the 

> meteorite laws, but it would never make it out of the first round of 

> sub-committes. 

> 

> Possession might be nine tenths of the law, but I'll be dollars to donuts 

> the Smithsonian gives it back. 

> 

> 

> Phil Whitmer 

> 

> ______________________________________________ 

> Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 

> Meteorite-list mailing list 

> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

_________________________________________________________________ 
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/ 

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From cdtucson at cox.net  Sun Feb  7 13:39:36 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:39:36 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <6177DF2AD3E14F2E968599B603501D7F@whitmerjbqtim1>
Message-ID: <20100207133936.3OG19.575445.imail@fed1rmwml37>

Phil, Martin , List,
Not to beat a dead horse here but, we all understand the way things are now.
In this link I provided earlier and again below there are particular events that occurred that may effect the outcome of this new case.
Please read link again and click on the past precedence they link to.
One is the Pierson V. Post case. ( this is highlighted in the article) In this case the court ruled the way most of us would expect. Surprisingly when the ruling was challenged in the supreme court. The decision was reversed! OMG, This case is about possession and is probably what John Lennon meant when he said;
"Possession isn't nine-tenths of the law. It's nine-tenths of the problem. ". 
Please take particular note of the boxed area which quotes the exchange between the Doctor and his landlord.

The doctor says he called the landlord and told him he plans to hand the meteorite over to the Smithsonian. He goes on to say that the landlord gave him PERMISSION to do so.
I may be old school but once the landlord Ok' d the "hand over"  he gave up ownership. Verbal agreements are legally binding. Obviously the landlord later realized he had made a mistake so, had his brother try to reclaim it but the fact is once you give something away you NO longer own it. Period. Sorry but please re-read this article linked here.'

http://brightcoast.wordpress.com/2010/02/05/meteorite-law-are-tenants-lost-in-space/

So, you see there are issues that clearly need pursuing but, Please all due respect to Indians today but as a kid we used to call this "Indian Giving". Sorry about that I would never use this term today but thought it would make the point that you cannot take back something you previously gave away. Sorry, if you are of sound mind at the time you just cannot. No matter how bad you feel about it later. The meteorite has already changed hands. Maybe. Only the courts can decide now.
Actually as already noted by another list member maybe they should divide it three ways and be done with it? Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com> wrote: 
> When you acquire clear title to a piece of property, you 
> also get landowners rights.  These rights are written into 
> the state constitutions or the bill of rights.  You own
> everything above, below and on your land.  Once a 
> meteorite enters your air space, you own it. Anyone 
> who tries to take it can be charged with theft, here in 
> Indiana, felony theft.  If I was the landowner in the 
> Lorton case, I would file felony theft charges against
> whoever stole my property. 
> 
> Since there are no specific laws pertaining to meteorites,
> the courts would decide the cases by legal precedent.
> This was all worked out by the time of the  Hodges
> meteorite case in 1954. 
> 
> If you think the landowners rights are unconstitutional,
> and you want to defy precedent, lots of luck to you
> and your lawyers, as you sue for ownership of someone
> else's property.  There's no way these rules are changing
> anytime soon, especially not for meteorites. 
> 
> Phil Whitmer
> 
> 
> 
> I am an uninformed reader but, where can I find these 
> "Meteorite Laws"? I usually only carry a copy of the 
> Federal Regulations Title 43 Part 8360, that allows me 
> to remove mineral specimens from public lands, should 
> I run into an agent who is not familiar with the law. 
> But, I am not familiar with "Meteorite Laws". I know 
> that Michelle Knapps had no trouble claiming and selling 
> the Peekskill meteorite. 
> Just need to know where to find these said new laws.. 
> Thanks! Miss seeing everyone in Tucson. Had to have 
> a Knee tune up after tromping around Egypt. 
> Dennis 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From fallingfusion at wi.rr.com  Sun Feb  7 14:23:14 2010
From: fallingfusion at wi.rr.com (fallingfusion at wi.rr.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:23:14 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Meteorite Auction 2010
In-Reply-To: <924339.317.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100207192314.QOCQI.391638.root@cdptpa-web08-z01>

...I second that request. Any news folks? Does anyone have a list of hammer prices that would be willing to check on a few lots for me. Please.

Ryan


---- Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Lister,
> 
> I am wondering how the Tucson Meteorite Auction 2010 is going and if anyone knows what the selling prices are going for the auctioned meteoirtes?
> 
> http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/TucsonAuction10.html
> 
> Shawn Alan
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Sun Feb  7 14:27:04 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:27:04 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <20100207133936.3OG19.575445.imail@fed1rmwml37>
Message-ID: <20100207192705.E343810533@mailwash5.pair.com>

> The doctor says he called the landlord and told him he plans to hand the
> meteorite over to the Smithsonian. He goes on to say that the landlord
> gave him PERMISSION to do so.
> I may be old school but once the landlord Ok' d the "hand over"  he gave
> up ownership. Verbal agreements are legally binding. Obviously the
> landlord later realized he had made a mistake so, had his brother try to
> reclaim it but the fact is once you give something away you NO longer own
> it. Period. Sorry but please re-read this article linked here.'

Hi Carl and Phil,

Carl, you are assuming that the doctor is telling the truth.  I have seen no
proof in those articles that the landlord has ever given any such
permission.  He probably did, but we can't assume that just because the
doctor said so.

> When you acquire clear title to a piece of property, you 
> also get landowners rights.  These rights are written into 
> the state constitutions or the bill of rights.  You own
> everything above, below and on your land.

I'm sorry, but you are not correct, Phil.  Some (many? most?) states in the
U.S. don't grant you the mineral rights under your house/business.  You have
to purchase that separately (if this is allowed in your state, county or
municipality).  In Colorado, you don't own the mineral rights under the
house you just bought, unless you get that specified in the title.  That
wouldn't be relevant for a meteorite that just fell, but I just wanted to
make sure that everyone knows that everything below your house is not
necessarily owned by you.  A friend of mine researched this 5 or so years
ago and that is what he found here in Colorado.  I've heard from a few
others in other states who said the same thing.

Regards,

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
cdtucson at cox.net
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:40 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Phil Whitmer
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite

Phil, Martin , List,
Not to beat a dead horse here but, we all understand the way things are now.
In this link I provided earlier and again below there are particular events
that occurred that may effect the outcome of this new case.
Please read link again and click on the past precedence they link to.
One is the Pierson V. Post case. ( this is highlighted in the article) In
this case the court ruled the way most of us would expect. Surprisingly when
the ruling was challenged in the supreme court. The decision was reversed!
OMG, This case is about possession and is probably what John Lennon meant
when he said;
"Possession isn't nine-tenths of the law. It's nine-tenths of the problem.
". 
Please take particular note of the boxed area which quotes the exchange
between the Doctor and his landlord.

The doctor says he called the landlord and told him he plans to hand the
meteorite over to the Smithsonian. He goes on to say that the landlord gave
him PERMISSION to do so.
I may be old school but once the landlord Ok' d the "hand over"  he gave up
ownership. Verbal agreements are legally binding. Obviously the landlord
later realized he had made a mistake so, had his brother try to reclaim it
but the fact is once you give something away you NO longer own it. Period.
Sorry but please re-read this article linked here.'

http://brightcoast.wordpress.com/2010/02/05/meteorite-law-are-tenants-lost-i
n-space/

So, you see there are issues that clearly need pursuing but, Please all due
respect to Indians today but as a kid we used to call this "Indian Giving".
Sorry about that I would never use this term today but thought it would make
the point that you cannot take back something you previously gave away.
Sorry, if you are of sound mind at the time you just cannot. No matter how
bad you feel about it later. The meteorite has already changed hands. Maybe.
Only the courts can decide now.
Actually as already noted by another list member maybe they should divide it
three ways and be done with it? Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com> wrote: 
> When you acquire clear title to a piece of property, you 
> also get landowners rights.  These rights are written into 
> the state constitutions or the bill of rights.  You own
> everything above, below and on your land.  Once a 
> meteorite enters your air space, you own it. Anyone 
> who tries to take it can be charged with theft, here in 
> Indiana, felony theft.  If I was the landowner in the 
> Lorton case, I would file felony theft charges against
> whoever stole my property. 
> 
> Since there are no specific laws pertaining to meteorites,
> the courts would decide the cases by legal precedent.
> This was all worked out by the time of the  Hodges
> meteorite case in 1954. 
> 
> If you think the landowners rights are unconstitutional,
> and you want to defy precedent, lots of luck to you
> and your lawyers, as you sue for ownership of someone
> else's property.  There's no way these rules are changing
> anytime soon, especially not for meteorites. 
> 
> Phil Whitmer
> 
> 



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sun Feb  7 14:31:04 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:31:04 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: New Meteorites Listed - Oriented Irons and
	Stones Plus More
Message-ID: <4B6F14F8.1090701@meteoritesusa.com>

New meteorites have been added to the site. End Cuts, whole stones, 
crusted pieces gorgeous display pieces, flight oriented stones and 
irons, Libyan desert glass, NWA 869 and discounts on larger orders.
http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tucson/
225g Lot of NWA 869 Half Cuts
2200g lot of NWA 869
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Lots More UNWA Hand Picked Cherry Stones, Oriented stones, Slices & End Cuts

Call 760-522-2152 or Email to order.
Free Shipping in the USA on orders over $100

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Sun Feb  7 14:33:06 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:33:06 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
	rock'
In-Reply-To: <20100204234008.X8DGZ.544979.imail@fed1rmwml37>
Message-ID: <20100207193308.8613C1054C@mailwash5.pair.com>

Hi Carl,

You do have a good point here.  I wish the Gov would let us hunt on Fed land
without needing to get permits because there are a lot of us who would do
the right thing and give the found meteorites to them.  I want to find
meteorites just for the thrill of it, so I would still do it even if I
couldn't keep what I found.  And maybe the Gov would let me keep one if I
found a bunch.  Or maybe not.  But in any case, letting meteorites erode
away is pointless.

Regards,

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: cdtucson at cox.net [mailto:cdtucson at cox.net] 
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:40 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Bob Loeffler
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
rock'

Bob, 
Thank you for the response. That is fair to say but the problem with Federal
land is that it is illegal to pick the stuff up without a permit. So, the
collection has to be for the government. if you don't pick it up it will rot
and then nobody will ever get a chance at it. During the mapping of Gold
Basin. Nobody wanted to bother to collect the material on into the federal
land because they could not keep it. 100% of the meteorites found on Federal
area of the gold basin strewnfield had to be given to the smithsonian
museum. If you look at the map it is very much lighter on the federal owned
section. Today you will get into big trouble if caught hunting there. 
But when on state land you are allowed to pick stuff up. that's all I'm
saying. Why do they differ? State land meteorites get picked up and
preserved. Federal meteorites get to rot. There must still be tons of
meteorites yet to be found but never will be due to these stupid laws.  Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com> wrote: 
> Hi Carl,
> 
> > I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed.
> > land. The fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found
> > on Fed. land all went to the smithsonian.
> 
> If you don't want the Fed Gov to get the treasures that are found on Fed
> land, who should get them?  Even you said that the treasures "belong to
all
> of us", but if you find something and take it home (and either keep it or
> sell it), the rest of us don't get to share in the ownership or joy of
what
> you found. So then that is not fair because it should belong to all of us,
> right?  So, the Gov puts the treasure in a museum so all of us can see it.
> All of the people now have a partial ownership/interest in it, not just
one
> or two people.
> 
> BTW, I don't work for the Gov. and didn't get paid by anyone to say
> anything.  :-)  This is just what I think this law is trying to do.  I
could
> be wrong.
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> cdtucson at cox.net
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:45 PM
> To: Adam; George Blahun Jr
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the
people's
> rock'
> 
> George. 
> Just one moment here. What if the rightful owner of the glasses never
claims
> 
> them? you have no idea who left them. Could have been a visitor asking for

> directions. Who owns them? The landlord??? Nobody is not the right answer
> here. 
> Also, Nobody wants your tree but the key is that it is yours! 
> What if you are leasing the tree in a business that sells the fruit? Who
is 
> responsible then? The owner of the tree or you because you are in legal
> control 
> of it. Just asking. 
> In the case of the contractor. Well, he did discover the treasure inside
the
> 
> wall. What most would have done is haul it off into the truck as he was 
> contracted to do and never mention it ( haul away the debris) . What he
did
> do 
> is tell the home owner and she wanted all of it. This case ended in all of
> her 
> relatives learning of it and the sum was divided many ways between all of
> them. 
> She got greedy and lost more than she gained . I love this case because
> greed 
> did not prevail. Her greed cost her mucho dineros . As a side note the 
> contractor did the right thing but it came down to. "No good deed goes 
> unpunished". As much as I hate to say that. 
>  I was an Architect/contractor and I know most of my subs would have
simply 
> hauled away the envelope with the rest of the debris, medicine cabinet and
> all. 
> Plus she was lucky the envelope had her relatives name on it because it
> might 
> have belonged to a previous home owner. all of this played out in court.
> which 
> is why I want to see this in court. 
> I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed. land.
> The 
> fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found on Fed. land all
> went 
> to the smithsonian. That is why the strewn field looks so bottom heavy.
Take
> 
> care and thank you.. Carl 
> -- 
> Carl or Debbie Esparza 
> Meteoritemax 
>  
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
> 
> 
> ---- George Blahun Jr <ks1u at att.net> wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Carl:
> >     Hello and thanks for your comments and point of view.  I actually
> didn't intend for this to be taken as cut and  dry.  I do come down on the
> side of the land owners, but my reference to the EM Spectrum implies that
> there is always another point of view.  If you were unfortunate enough to
be
> hit by a meteorite on someone else's property, I believe you'd be entitled
> to damages for your injury and pain and suffering.   If you were walking
on
> my property here in CT and one of my black walnut trees fell on you, you
> could (and should) file a claim against my home owners policy, but I don't
> think you'd get to keep the black walnut tree which is probably  worth
about
> 10K for the wood.  
> >      In your example of the dollar bill, a fairly insignificant amount
if
> you can afford to see a doctor, the dollar probably goes to the finder.
But
> if you drop your Maui Jim sunglasses there, you still have the right to
them
> and neither the finder nor the doctor nor the landlord owns them.  Of
course
> most communities have a procedure for claiming a lost and found, unlike a
> space rock.  This series of events changes if the object which hits you is
> from a military satellite.   They'd deny any responsibility but want it
back
> anyhow. 
> > 
> >     There was a court case recently where a contractor was removing a
wall
> in a house and found a bunch of money which had been hidden in there for
> decades.  The contractor tried to claim it using the old legal defense of
> "finders keepers losers weepers"  but the courts said, no.  
> >     I guess we all have a slight bias when interpreting the law and what
> constitutes ownership.  This no doubt determines which side of this issue
we
> each come down on.
> > 
> > George
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 02/04/10
> 00:35:00
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 02/04/10
00:35:00



From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Sun Feb  7 14:39:03 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:39:03 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
	rock'
In-Reply-To: <3E3D3204-50DA-4AAC-B338-8D04EA9BAA2A@att.net>
Message-ID: <20100207193919.D818310533@mailwash5.pair.com>

> I had a business law professor in college say that the law looks for
> someone to pay regardless of whether a person is actually responsible.
> It may not win in court, but I'll bet the legal argument for someone
> being hit by a meteorite in a doctor's office would be something like,
> there is an implied guarantee of safety when entering the building.

Hi George,

I never thought of it that you and you may be right.  Hopefully that won't
happen to anyone... because that would hurt!  :-)

Regards,

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: George Blahun Jr [mailto:ks1u at att.net] 
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:29 PM
To: Bob Loeffler
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
rock'

Bob:
      You make a good point, but I think liability laws, which vary state to
state are pretty complex.  Hopefully, as you suggested  some actual legal
opinion will be offered.  I had a business law professor in college say that
the law looks for someone to pay regardless of whether a person is actually
responsible.  It may not win in court, but I'll bet the legal argument for
someone being hit by a meteorite in a doctor's office would be something
like, there is an implied guarantee of safety when entering the building.  

George
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 02/04/10
00:35:00



From cdtucson at cox.net  Sun Feb  7 14:58:00 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:58:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
 rock'
In-Reply-To: <20100207193308.8613C1054C@mailwash5.pair.com>
Message-ID: <20100207145800.K9WOQ.576426.imail@fed1rmwml37>

hey Bob,
I have since spoken briefly with Twink about this collection around the lake. As an authority on Gold Basin,  Twink was kind enough to share with me the facts. I might have this right? 
I  think she said that after the initial giving to the Smithsonian of the first 20% of meteorites collected at the lake. People were able for a short time to keep their finds. This was great because it contributed to the very fine work of mapping that Jim , twink,  Kring and others did. This has since ceased to be the case and it is now again illegal to collect under that particular permit. Even though all of the whole find area is all actually of Federal land. I think she said that the Lake area has special restrictions that the southern area does not have ? . So, if I understand this correctly. You may keep a percentage of finds as long as you get the proper permits. Good luck with that! Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com> wrote: 
> Hi Carl,
> 
> You do have a good point here.  I wish the Gov would let us hunt on Fed land
> without needing to get permits because there are a lot of us who would do
> the right thing and give the found meteorites to them.  I want to find
> meteorites just for the thrill of it, so I would still do it even if I
> couldn't keep what I found.  And maybe the Gov would let me keep one if I
> found a bunch.  Or maybe not.  But in any case, letting meteorites erode
> away is pointless.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdtucson at cox.net [mailto:cdtucson at cox.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:40 PM
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Bob Loeffler
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
> rock'
> 
> Bob, 
> Thank you for the response. That is fair to say but the problem with Federal
> land is that it is illegal to pick the stuff up without a permit. So, the
> collection has to be for the government. if you don't pick it up it will rot
> and then nobody will ever get a chance at it. During the mapping of Gold
> Basin. Nobody wanted to bother to collect the material on into the federal
> land because they could not keep it. 100% of the meteorites found on Federal
> area of the gold basin strewnfield had to be given to the smithsonian
> museum. If you look at the map it is very much lighter on the federal owned
> section. Today you will get into big trouble if caught hunting there. 
> But when on state land you are allowed to pick stuff up. that's all I'm
> saying. Why do they differ? State land meteorites get picked up and
> preserved. Federal meteorites get to rot. There must still be tons of
> meteorites yet to be found but never will be due to these stupid laws.  Carl
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
> 
> 
> ---- Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com> wrote: 
> > Hi Carl,
> > 
> > > I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed.
> > > land. The fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found
> > > on Fed. land all went to the smithsonian.
> > 
> > If you don't want the Fed Gov to get the treasures that are found on Fed
> > land, who should get them?  Even you said that the treasures "belong to
> all
> > of us", but if you find something and take it home (and either keep it or
> > sell it), the rest of us don't get to share in the ownership or joy of
> what
> > you found. So then that is not fair because it should belong to all of us,
> > right?  So, the Gov puts the treasure in a museum so all of us can see it.
> > All of the people now have a partial ownership/interest in it, not just
> one
> > or two people.
> > 
> > BTW, I don't work for the Gov. and didn't get paid by anyone to say
> > anything.  :-)  This is just what I think this law is trying to do.  I
> could
> > be wrong.
> > 
> > Regards, 
> > 
> > Bob
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> > cdtucson at cox.net
> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:45 PM
> > To: Adam; George Blahun Jr
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the
> people's
> > rock'
> > 
> > George. 
> > Just one moment here. What if the rightful owner of the glasses never
> claims
> > 
> > them? you have no idea who left them. Could have been a visitor asking for
> 
> > directions. Who owns them? The landlord??? Nobody is not the right answer
> > here. 
> > Also, Nobody wants your tree but the key is that it is yours! 
> > What if you are leasing the tree in a business that sells the fruit? Who
> is 
> > responsible then? The owner of the tree or you because you are in legal
> > control 
> > of it. Just asking. 
> > In the case of the contractor. Well, he did discover the treasure inside
> the
> > 
> > wall. What most would have done is haul it off into the truck as he was 
> > contracted to do and never mention it ( haul away the debris) . What he
> did
> > do 
> > is tell the home owner and she wanted all of it. This case ended in all of
> > her 
> > relatives learning of it and the sum was divided many ways between all of
> > them. 
> > She got greedy and lost more than she gained . I love this case because
> > greed 
> > did not prevail. Her greed cost her mucho dineros . As a side note the 
> > contractor did the right thing but it came down to. "No good deed goes 
> > unpunished". As much as I hate to say that. 
> >  I was an Architect/contractor and I know most of my subs would have
> simply 
> > hauled away the envelope with the rest of the debris, medicine cabinet and
> > all. 
> > Plus she was lucky the envelope had her relatives name on it because it
> > might 
> > have belonged to a previous home owner. all of this played out in court.
> > which 
> > is why I want to see this in court. 
> > I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed. land.
> > The 
> > fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found on Fed. land all
> > went 
> > to the smithsonian. That is why the strewn field looks so bottom heavy.
> Take
> > 
> > care and thank you.. Carl 
> > -- 
> > Carl or Debbie Esparza 
> > Meteoritemax 
> >  
> > --
> > Carl or Debbie Esparza
> > Meteoritemax
> > 
> > 
> > ---- George Blahun Jr <ks1u at att.net> wrote: 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Carl:
> > >     Hello and thanks for your comments and point of view.  I actually
> > didn't intend for this to be taken as cut and  dry.  I do come down on the
> > side of the land owners, but my reference to the EM Spectrum implies that
> > there is always another point of view.  If you were unfortunate enough to
> be
> > hit by a meteorite on someone else's property, I believe you'd be entitled
> > to damages for your injury and pain and suffering.   If you were walking
> on
> > my property here in CT and one of my black walnut trees fell on you, you
> > could (and should) file a claim against my home owners policy, but I don't
> > think you'd get to keep the black walnut tree which is probably  worth
> about
> > 10K for the wood.  
> > >      In your example of the dollar bill, a fairly insignificant amount
> if
> > you can afford to see a doctor, the dollar probably goes to the finder.
> But
> > if you drop your Maui Jim sunglasses there, you still have the right to
> them
> > and neither the finder nor the doctor nor the landlord owns them.  Of
> course
> > most communities have a procedure for claiming a lost and found, unlike a
> > space rock.  This series of events changes if the object which hits you is
> > from a military satellite.   They'd deny any responsibility but want it
> back
> > anyhow. 
> > > 
> > >     There was a court case recently where a contractor was removing a
> wall
> > in a house and found a bunch of money which had been hidden in there for
> > decades.  The contractor tried to claim it using the old legal defense of
> > "finders keepers losers weepers"  but the courts said, no.  
> > >     I guess we all have a slight bias when interpreting the law and what
> > constitutes ownership.  This no doubt determines which side of this issue
> we
> > each come down on.
> > > 
> > > George
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > Visit the Archives at
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
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> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
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From photophlow at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  7 15:34:10 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:34:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite (Schmitt is wrong)(NO your wrong)
Message-ID: <280787.46967.qm@web113603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Martin/List 

Stated by Martin......
"Hello Shawn, 
please don't use that article from Schmitt any longer, 
because it is incorrect and misleading." 

Here is the misleading article link
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M%26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_GIF&classic=YES

Martin I am glad you think its misleading I guess when you read the article you also read the part where Schmitt wrote about "General Comments on Find Ownership" where he stated...

"The above illustrations indicate the wide range of rules about ownership of meteorite between countries. Each legal system is unique, but in general terms in most places the landownerer of the place of find owns the meteorite."

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M%26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=3&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_GIF&classic=YES

He further goes on and in his conclusion and states..... "Meteorite ownership law varies widely." 

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M%26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=5&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_GIF&classic=YES

By the?quotes I can infer that Schmitt has suggested that these "LAWS" vary from country to country and from state to state so people might want to check with their local laws on property rights. 

Lastly, Martin you stated "So we should avoid the term "ethics", in the meteorite laws debate."..... O should we? I am confused by your should state. I thought ?this website is set up for discussions on meteorites? I think in the future you might want?to consider your?choice of words directed to the list. The article?by Schmitt, I will continue?to post as a reference?when law topics come up or when you decide to publish an article?in Meteorite & Planetary Science that debunks Schmitts Article. 
?
Thank you
Shawn Alan





[meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite (Schmitt is wrong)
Martin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de 
Sun Feb 7 11:12:32 EST 2010 

Hello Shawn, 

please don't use that article from Schmitt any longer, 

because it is incorrect and misleading. 




Schmitt writes (with a quotation, where he left out the most important 
words), that the UNESCO convention of 1970 would include meteorites. 

And inanother place: 

"This Convention, ratified 
by over 90 states, provides for tracking and retrieving from reciprocating 
states, cultural property including meteorites." 

That is wrong. Full stop. 

The point about Switzerland is wrong too. 


Huh, would have to rummage my old emails, 
I once occupied myself with that Schmitt-topic... 

A here it is one o them (see below)... 

(Perhaps I should add, that also technically the UNESCO convention can't 
protect anything, because - as given in the text of the convention - it has 
to be ratified by each nation first, and each nation individually has to 
create an individual list of items of their national heritage. 
Only if that has happened and if meteorites are found in the individual 
national heritage lists (like e.g. in Australia) the convention is 
effective). 

And anyway, other meteorite laws... 
In most constitutional countries personal property belongs to the strongest 
personal rights and is especially protected. 
In such countries od rule of law, disappropriation (with ot without 
compensation) by a state or to limit the use of a property (like e.g. to 
forbid to sell to other countries) is grave intervention of the individual 
personal rights, which, if done, requires a especially strong resons, 
usually the pubic weal or interest. 
You know, cases of land dissapropriation for building a highway ect. 

In most of these constitutional nations, legislation and judicature are 
separated. So not the law is decisive - a judge or a court have to decide. 

Furthermore such constitutional countries do have a interdiction of 
arbitrary laws, laws made for only a single case are not effective. 
Such laws can exist, but a court has to decide and it is also possible to 
proof them by a court, whether they are constitutional or not. 

So. If e.g. a country like Switzerland or Denmark, where only every 30 or 80 
years a meteorite falls, would have a special meteorite law (which they 
don't have), 
it would be highly doubtful, whether that law would be valuable. 

And if a country has a law, which allows a disappropriation by or a right of 
preemption by (like Switzerland has) or a compulsory sale of a meteorite to 
the state, because it is an object of high public or scientific importance 
or interest, 
this interest has to be justified and proven. 

Switzerland e.g. would have most probably difficulties to do that. 
If one sees, that the state wasn't willing to preserve the historical 
Bally-meteorite-collection, the most important meteorite collection of 
Switzerland and that no single public institute took advantage from the 
preemption to buy it, when it was liquidated a few years ago, 
or if one keeps in mind, that no official efforts to find the meteorite of 
the Lake Constance fireball were undertaken (e.g. in Romania the state was 
hunting for the last fireballs) 
and if one sees, that Switzerland made no use of that very law with the 
large rock crystal, found in Switzerland by commercial rock hunters, but 
will buy it from them for several millions, 
than a Suisse court most probably would state, that a meteorite isn't of the 
necessary importance, the law requires. 

Or in other words, a confused meteoricist can have as many laws for 
meteorites as he wants, 
whether these laws are valid at all or in the very individual case 
- in most constitutional countries will have to decide a judge. 

I'm convinced, that in some countries, the meteorite laws are in that 
respect somewhat problematic, to express it politely. 

Problem is, that most of these people who are producing meteorites in 
finding them, are to civilized to waste their time with such rubbish, 
to fight in court for stones, 
and so theses laws never were proven, whether they are valid or 
constitutional at all. 

Anyway, as doubtful some meteorite laws, I think meanwhile most see, 
that meteorite laws in general have a very negative effect. 

In Australia e.g.the strain to science is so high, 
that first voices appear, to revise the laws, that finally again meteorites 
will be found there again. 
Here a suggestion to revise the laws from Pickard of the Bathurst 
observatory. 
http://www.arts.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/88073/bathurst-observator 
y.pdf 


Perhaps, in the end, in my eyes that laws debate isn't a discussion about 
ethics, as it sometimes is imposed. 
Yesterday I googled for the Chinese law for protection of cultural relics, 
whether meteorites could be afflicted too. (You know, China asks everywhere 
its fossils back). 
There I stumbled by chance over a Presidental Decree from the Philippines 
of 1974 (!) - who would ever known, that since 36 years meteorites, 
tektites, the rizalites, Anda-tektites from the Philippines are cultural 
property... 

A decree from the dictator Marcos. 
I highly doubt, that this person can be regarded as an ethical instance. 
And that unethical laws can exist, that we do know especially in Germany, 
if we think back to the Nazi-laws of disappropriation. 

So we should avoid the term "ethics", in the meteorite laws debate. 


Best! 
Martin 



..... 
Good evening again, 

at the moment I feel a little bit taken for a fool. 
May you help me? 

We read and hear often in such discussions, that some nations tell that 
meteorites fall under the UNESCO Convention on the Means of Prohibiting and 
Preventing the Illicit Import, Export and Transfer of Ownership of Cultural 
Property, as reasons for respective laws. 

Like e.g. McEwens, Schmitt & Barristers herald with a chest note of firm 
conviction as a fact in their paper of 2001 about meteorite laws: 
"This Convention, ratified 
by over 90 states, provides for tracking and retrieving from reciprocating 
states, cultural property including meteorites." 
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2001/pdf/5150.pdf 

Well, therefore I read now the convention (in German and in English). 

"including meteorites" is untrue. 

Meteorites are NOT mentioned in the convention, with no single word at all. 

And here is the wording of the definition of such "cultural property", 
synonym with "cultural heritage" later in the text of the convention. 
Quote: 

"Article 1 

For the purposes of this Convention, the term `cultural property' means 
property which, on religious or secular grounds, is specifically designated 
by each State as being of importance for archaeology, prehistory, history, 
literature, art or science..." 

Followed by a catalogue of items of such cultural property. 
A catalogue is a list. The intention to list all items as completely as 
possible is perceptible in the sometimes detailed way of description. 

Quote continued: 
"... and which belongs to the following categories: 

(a) Rare collections and specimens of fauna, flora, minerals and anatomy, 
and objects of palaeontological interest; 

(b) property relating to history, including the history of science and 
technology and military and social history, to the life of national leaders, 
thinkers, scientists and artist and to events of national importance; 

(c) products of archaeological excavations (including regular and 
clandestine) or of archaeological discoveries ; 

(d) elements of artistic or historical monuments or archaeological sites 
which have been dismembered; 

(e) antiquities more than one hundred years old, such as inscriptions, coins 
and engraved seals; 

(f) objects of ethnological interest; 

(g) property of artistic interest, such as: 

(i) pictures, paintings and drawings produced entirely by hand on any 
support and in any material (excluding industrial designs and manu-factured 
articles decorated by hand); 

(ii) original works of statuary art and sculpture in any material; 

(iii) original engravings, prints and lithographs ; 

(iv) original artistic assemblages and montages in any material; 

(h) rare manuscripts and incunabula, old books, documents and publications 
of special interest (historical, artistic, scientific, literary, etc.) 
singly or in collections ; 

(i) postage, revenue and similar stamps, singly or in collections; 

(j) archives, including sound, photographic and cinematographic archives; 

(k) articles of furniture more than one hundred years old and old musical 
instruments." 

Where are the meteorites? 

Central point of the convention is the "cultural heritage". 
See also: 

"Article 4 

The States Parties to this Convention recognize that for the purpose of the 
Convention property which belongs to the following categories forms part of 
the cultural heritage of each State: 

(a) Cultural property created by the individual or collective genius of 
nationals of the State concerned, and cultural property of importance to the 
State concerned created within the territory of that State by foreign 
nationals or stateless persons resident within such territory; 

(b) cultural property found within the national territory; 

(c) cultural property acquired by archaeological, ethnological or natural 
science missions, with the consent of the competent authorities of the 
country of origin of such property; 

(d) cultural property which has been the subject of a freely agreed 
exchange; 

(e) cultural property received as a gift or purchased legally with the 
consent of the competent authorities of the country of origin of such 
property." 

Please can someone help me, what the exact semantics and meaning of the 
English word "heritage" is? 

The German version of the convention has the word "Erbe" for "heritage". 
"Erbe" means the object, that is given from an antecessor to his progeny, it 
is something inherited, it originated in past, the factor of time is in that 
word. Heritage is something long-standing, traditional, passed-down, heirs 
inherit a heritage. 

And here we are? The only word in the convention, which could be so 
overstretched, that one could tear it over meteorites is 

"(a) Rare collections and specimens of fauna, flora, MINERALS and anatomy, 
and objects of palaeontological interest" 

That sentence, especially if you read the other points (b) to (e) is there 
to avoid, that parts of museum collections will be trafficked. 

Well, is there anybody out, 
who can enlighten me, how a new fall of a meteorite - hence an object, that 
since beginnings of the solar system had no contact with humans or Earth at 
all, can be a priori part of the cultural heritage of a country?? 

Where are the cultural properties of a stone, which is lying unnoticed by 
mankind, animals, dinosaurs in the wasteland and which hadn't formed the 
landscape? 
Why the Antarctic finds then aren't protected as cultural heritage? 
How a stone, where nobody knows, whether it is a meteorite or terrestrial, 
can be exported illegally, if only later in a lab it is positively tested 
and recognized as meteorite? 

Did someone write a poem about Hughes 057? 
Do we have any nomad songs about NWA 2487? 
When Tagish Lake felt, were there a sect crawling out the bushes: The 
prophecy is fulfilled? 

When happened the fall of Carancas? 100 years ago? 
If a nomad pics up a black stone, is this than a cultural act? 
Stays the stone cultural property, if it was no meteorite but a sandstone? 

Please Jerry, don't paint any meteorite falls anymore, the stones will be 
immediately cultural heritage. 

Here is the full text of the convention: 
http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=13039&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION= 
201.html 


I personally see another interesting point. The convention was passed in 
1970. 

The earliest article, bemoaning that there are meteorites dealt and where a 
prohibitive legislation was demanded, I could found in internet, stem from 
1991. 
Maybe someone could find some earlier ones? 
Else one is tempted to get an impression, that in the early 90ies scientist 
found out, ooops, there are private individuals finding a lot of new 
meteorites, let's get them all! And others will tell: Sounds like trivial 
greed. 

I for my part think, that the effort to try refer to the convention, is 
ridiculous. 
It never was made, nor meant for meteorites. 
The only straws to clutch at, is the single word "minerals", torn out of the 
context. 
With that construction, the export of coal, oil and cement would fall under 
the Convention of Cultural Property too. 

(Note the title, it says "Ownership"...see my last post). 

To pretend, that meteorites would be covered by the convention, is 
absolutely inappropriate. 
Therefore the respective countries should make a national lex meteoritica 
each or they should let it be. 


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- 
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn 
Alan 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Februar 2010 02:27 
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; astroroks at hotmail.com 
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 

Dennis/List 

Click on the link below and this might help with laws on ownership of 
meteorites. 

Shawn Alan 


http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M% 
26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCR 
EEN_GIF&classic=YES 






[meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 
Dennis Miller astroroks at hotmail.com 
Sat Feb 6 19:53:51 EST 2010 

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I am an uninformed reader but, where can I find these 
"Meteorite Laws"? I usually only carry a copy of the 
Federal Regulations Title 43 Part 8360, that allows me 
to remove mineral specimens from public lands, should 
I run into an agent who is not familiar with the law. 
But, I am not familiar with "Meteorite Laws". I know 
that Michelle Knapps had no trouble claiming and selling 
the Peekskill meteorite. 
Just need to know where to find these said new laws.. 
Thanks! Miss seeing everyone in Tucson. Had to have 
a Knee tune up after tromping around Egypt. 
Dennis 
---------------------------------------- 


> From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com 



> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 



> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:39:46 -0500 



> Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 



> 



> Hiya Carl, gun lovers and haters: 



> 



> I was merely stating the law as it now stands. If a meteorite falls on 

your 


> property, you own it. An open and shut case. If the Smithsonian wants to 



> appeal to the Supreme Court, the Court could possibly rule that current 



> meteorite laws are unconstitutional. It's extremely unlikely they would 

hear 


> the case. It's highly unlikely even a Circuit judge would strike down 



> current meteorite laws as unconstitutional. Or any judge for that matter. 



> The Smithsonian has the lawyers and the funding of the federal gov't 

backing 


> them, they could try to argue the laws are unconstitutional, highly 

unlikely 


> as there is practically no chance they would win. 



> 



> What they could do is go straight to the President and get either a 



> presidential decree or have the Justice Dep't write some memos like they 



> did legalizing torture. Again not a chance. 



> 



> More likely they could get a Congressman to introduce a bill changing the 



> meteorite laws, but it would never make it out of the first round of 



> sub-committes. 



> 



> Possession might be nine tenths of the law, but I'll be dollars to donuts 



> the Smithsonian gives it back. 



> 



> 



> Phil Whitmer 



> 



> ______________________________________________ 



> Visit the Archives at 

http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 


> Meteorite-list mailing list 



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From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net  Sun Feb  7 15:58:26 2010
From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:58:26 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Gold Basin strewn field correction on a post by
	Carl Esparza
References: <20100207145800.K9WOQ.576426.imail@fed1rmwml37>
Message-ID: <70F75F42DCA842BCBB6B121C70F639BA@DFZN8X81>

No Carl, you do not have this right at all.

What I told you the other night is that Jim Kriegh, John Blennert and I 
turned in all of our first several hundred specimens to Dr. Kring at the U 
of A.  These were found on BLM land where the field was discovered while 
hunting for gold.  Dolores Hill and Dr. Kring went through these one by one, 
bagged and labeled them, as Dolores can attest.  Twenty per cent of these 
went to the Smithsonian.  The rest were eventually given back to us by Dr. 
Kring except for a few that the University needed for classification.  John, 
Jim and I also donated several to the University of Arizona Mineral Museum 
which they still own.  As all of us discovered different meteorites in the 
same strewn field, they were also examined, classified and returned to us 
except for the slices kept by the U of A for classification.

It was a year later that Dr. Kring obtained for Jim Kriegh a permit to hunt 
on the Lake Mead Recreation Area and  Jim, John and I hunted there for a 
while and were honored to do so.  Dr. Kring was interested in knowing 
whether the strewn field covered the Recreation Area.  When we found Gold 
Basin meteorites at various points even overlooking Lake Mead and walked 
over lots of flat land and into canyons on both sides of the road into the 
Recreation area it was obvious that yes, the field extended to Lake Mead. 
All of these finds on the Lake Mead Recreation area were turned over to Dr. 
Kring who in turn sent them to the Smithsonian as that had been in the 
agreement in order to get the permit to hunt on the Recreation area. We had 
hunted briefly at various spots just to see where they occurred.   Jim 
Kriegh did not ask for the permit to be extended since the information that 
Dr. Kring needed had been verified.

Once the press release came out from the University of Arizona in January 
1998, anyone was free to hunt on the original BLM area and we enjoyed many 
hunts with many of you who became our good friends.  Meeting all of you who 
did hunt with Jim Kriegh or who met him at the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show 
is what made him the happiest and made the find worthwhile to him.  Jim was 
also pleased to have donated his time for the mapping and scientific 
information his find afforded the meteorite world.


Twink Monrad





From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Sun Feb  7 16:56:12 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:56:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dawn Journal - January 30, 2010
Message-ID: <201002072156.o17LuCWT016945@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_1_30_10.asp

Dawn Journal
Dr. Marc Rayman
January 30, 2010

Dear Plausible Dawniabilities,
 
Patiently and reliably continuing with its interplanetary voyage,
Dawn is now flying in a new configuration and, from the
perspective of those readers who may be on Earth, in a new direction.
 
The spacecraft still spends most of its time gradually changing
its orbit around the Sun by thrusting with its ion propulsion
system. The probe is outfitted with 3 ion thrusters, assigned the
heartwarming names thruster #1, thruster #2, and thruster #3. (The
 nomenclature and locations of the units were divulged in a log
shortly after launch, before
such information could be distorted and used unethically by
others.) The ship only uses 1 thruster at a time. All 3 were
tested during the 80-day initial checkout phase of the mission,
and when the interplanetary cruise phase commenced in December
2007, it was thruster #3 that was
responsible for pushing the spacecraft away from the Sun. It
performed flawlessly, but engineers plan to share the workload
among the thrusters over the course of the 8-year mission, so
thruster #1 was called into action in June 2008.
By that time, stalwart #3 had been operated
in space for 158 days. (For those readers who have just returned
from an enjoyable excursion back to that log, the apparent
discrepancy between the 158 days of operating time given here and
the 149 days presented there is not an error. The smaller value is
the operating time in the interplanetary cruise phase. Thruster #3
had accumulated about 9 days of operation during the initial
checkout phase.)
 
Thruster #1 was in service until this month. Although it remains
in excellent condition, engineers transmitted instructions in
December for the spacecraft to reconfigure for use of a different
thruster after its weekly communications session on January 4. By
that time, #1 had thrust for almost 318 days. With its famously
efficient use of xenon propellant, all that maneuvering consumed
only 84.6 kg (187 pounds), yet it imparted 2.2 kilometers/second
(4900 miles/hour) to the spacecraft.
 
Now it is #2?s turn. It had barely more than 1 day of total
running time in space prior to this month, having been used only
for some tests in November 2007 and April and May 2009. Now 2010 will
be its year to shine (with a lovely blue-green glow). In addition,
as we will see in the next log, for the entirety of the mission,
thruster #2 will have the distinction of providing the greatest
acceleration to the spacecraft of any of the thrusters.
 
There is much more to the ion propulsion system than the
thrusters. As explained in more detail in an earlier log,
the system also includes 2
computer controllers and 2 units that draw as much as 2500 watts
from Dawn's solar arrays and converts the power to the currents
and voltages the thrusters need. Controller #1 and power unit #1
are used for both thruster #1 and #3, so those electrical devices
have already worked extensively during the mission, although most
of their operation still lies ahead. For now, though, controller
#2 and power unit #2 are in charge.
 
Although thruster #2 and its associated components have spent most
of their time in space unpowered, they all are now performing just
as smoothly as the other ion propulsion system elements did when
they were in use.
 
Most of the artistic depictions of the spacecraft in flight happen
to show it using thruster #2, the one nearest the main antenna. So
the next time you see such an image, probably even at the top of
this very page, you might consider that it is very much the way
the spacecraft would look right now if you could see it.
 
Of course, Dawn is much too far from Earth to be seen by human
eyes, even aided by the most powerful telescopes. But it has
recently come nearer to the planet than it had been for nearly 2
years. As we have discussed in many logs (see, for example,
November 2008), Earth and Dawn move
independently through the solar system. Just as the hands of a
clock sometimes move closer together and sometimes farther apart,
Dawn and Earth sometimes approach each other and sometimes separate.
 
Some readers may not be at all surprised that even as the probe is
receding from the Sun well over 2 years after launch, blazing a
trail through the asteroid belt, constantly changing its own orbit
(unlike most spacecraft, which coast most of the time, just as
planets do), it is no farther from Earth than it was just 5 months
after launch. They are excused from reading the material below.
Others, however, may find this discussion helpful in thinking more
about why this occurs. It is not important for the mission, but it
may be satisfying for those who wish to direct a metaphorical gaze
to the distant craft.
 
Unlike clock hands, Dawn does not travel in a circular path.
Following the initial push away from Earth by the Delta rocket
that carried it from Cape Canaveral into space, its orbit around
the Sun was elliptical (see the second row of the table here.
Its path has changed a great deal
since then, principally because of the extensive thrusting (but
also because of the gravitational boost from Mars).
 
Although elliptical orbits distort the picture a little, the
essentials of the clock analogy are valid, so let's imagine this
alignment by considering the same clock we have used twice before,
most recently last month.  (For
readers who now have more clocks than room to display them, we
promise that this will be that last reference to a clock from the
Dawn gift shop, at least until your clocks' warranties have
expired.) With the Sun at the center, Earth is at the tip of the
shorter hand and Dawn at the tip of the longer one. On January 25,
the star, planet, and spacecraft were aligned as closely as the
hands of the clock would be at 6:32:16.
 
When positioned that way, the Sun and Dawn were nearly in opposite
directions from Earth's vantage point. Suppose you were on Earth
on that date and wanted to look in the direction of the
spacecraft. You would have put the Sun at your back and Dawn would
have been less than 6 degrees from your line of sight, equivalent
to being in the center of a (different) clock, having the 12 at
your back, and instead of looking at the 6, shifting your gaze
almost to the next tic mark. (The positions constantly change, and
by the middle of February, you would need to readjust your gaze to
the 7, still keeping the Sun at the 12.)
 
Although the alignment is the result of the motion of both Earth
and the spacecraft, from the terrestrial perspective, with our
deceptive sense of cosmic immobility, it seemed that Dawn had been
moving closer to us. Now it seems to be moving away.
 
Dawn reached its greatest distance from Earth so far in the
mission on November 10, 2008. [Note:
We had decided that it was unnecessary to include a link to that
paragraph, thanks to our encouragement therein for readers to
memorize it. According to our new consultants, Prescient Telepaths
"R Us, you are the sole reader who did not commit it to memory.
Therefore, in our goal to make every customer happy, we are
pleased to include the link specifically for you. Enjoy!] At that
time, it was 2.57 astronomical units (AU) from Earth. Since then, 
while its orbit has carried it closer to the Sun and then farther 
again, the distance to Earth has been
declining the entire time. The spacecraft and its planet of origin
finally moved to their closest point on January 18, when their
travels brought them to 0.80 AU from each other. (It occurred at
about 2:00 am PST, so if you sleep deeply, you may have missed
it.) The minimum distance did not occur at exactly the same time
as the nearly linear arrangement because the orbits are not as
simple as the circular motion of the clock hands.
 
The last time they were this close was on March 11, 2008. They
will never be so near each other again. Earth follows the same
orbit around the Sun year after year, but with Dawn constantly
changing its trajectory, pushing deeper into the solar system, the
next time it and Earth are aligned on the same side of the Sun (in
August 2011), the explorer will be much farther away. Indeed, if
all goes according to plan, it will be in orbit around Vesta by
then, beginning to reap the rewards for its long expedition
through the cold depths of space, as it explores a distant and
alien world that waits silently for its first visitor.
 
Dawn is 0.82 AU (123 million kilometers or 76 million miles) from
Earth, or 345 times as far as the moon and 0.83 times as far as
the Sun. Radio signals, traveling at the universal limit of the
speed of light, take 14 minutes to make the round trip.



From cdtucson at cox.net  Sun Feb  7 16:59:04 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:59:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Gold Basin strewn field correction on a post
	by Carl Esparza
In-Reply-To: <70F75F42DCA842BCBB6B121C70F639BA@DFZN8X81>
Message-ID: <20100207165904.0CW1K.155119.imail@fed1rmwml46>

Twink,
Thank you so much for setting the record straight.
I am sure that everyone enjoyed your corrected information. I know I did. thanks again. 
And thanks for the cake at the auction last night. You are wonderful. Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Larry & Twink Monrad <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net> wrote: 
> No Carl, you do not have this right at all.
> 
> What I told you the other night is that Jim Kriegh, John Blennert and I 
> turned in all of our first several hundred specimens to Dr. Kring at the U 
> of A.  These were found on BLM land where the field was discovered while 
> hunting for gold.  Dolores Hill and Dr. Kring went through these one by one, 
> bagged and labeled them, as Dolores can attest.  Twenty per cent of these 
> went to the Smithsonian.  The rest were eventually given back to us by Dr. 
> Kring except for a few that the University needed for classification.  John, 
> Jim and I also donated several to the University of Arizona Mineral Museum 
> which they still own.  As all of us discovered different meteorites in the 
> same strewn field, they were also examined, classified and returned to us 
> except for the slices kept by the U of A for classification.
> 
> It was a year later that Dr. Kring obtained for Jim Kriegh a permit to hunt 
> on the Lake Mead Recreation Area and  Jim, John and I hunted there for a 
> while and were honored to do so.  Dr. Kring was interested in knowing 
> whether the strewn field covered the Recreation Area.  When we found Gold 
> Basin meteorites at various points even overlooking Lake Mead and walked 
> over lots of flat land and into canyons on both sides of the road into the 
> Recreation area it was obvious that yes, the field extended to Lake Mead. 
> All of these finds on the Lake Mead Recreation area were turned over to Dr. 
> Kring who in turn sent them to the Smithsonian as that had been in the 
> agreement in order to get the permit to hunt on the Recreation area. We had 
> hunted briefly at various spots just to see where they occurred.   Jim 
> Kriegh did not ask for the permit to be extended since the information that 
> Dr. Kring needed had been verified.
> 
> Once the press release came out from the University of Arizona in January 
> 1998, anyone was free to hunt on the original BLM area and we enjoyed many 
> hunts with many of you who became our good friends.  Meeting all of you who 
> did hunt with Jim Kriegh or who met him at the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show 
> is what made him the happiest and made the find worthwhile to him.  Jim was 
> also pleased to have donated his time for the mapping and scientific 
> information his find afforded the meteorite world.
> 
> 
> Twink Monrad
> 
> 
> 



From codale0806 at rogers.com  Sun Feb  7 17:14:55 2010
From: codale0806 at rogers.com (Charles O'Dale)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:14:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Upheaval Dome
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13.1265562033.51050.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.13.1265562033.51050.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <160170.3624.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

All:

I just updated my web-site to include my report on explorations of the Upheaval Dome in Utah.

http://ottawa-rasc.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Odale-Articles-UpheavalDome 

FYI
Chuck



From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  7 17:59:10 2010
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:59:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Superbowl deals
Message-ID: <813228.28743.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi to all.
I know many are getting ready for the big game, Im hoping for a Colts victory.
I thought I would toss an offer out to you all.

I have an awesome .31g Karoonda with museum provenance listed on ebay currently.
>From now until the end of the game, I will offer it to the first person who wants it for only $225 including shipping!

Great deal for someone wanting more then just a speck, and with great provenance!

Also, 15% off any ebay item currently listed on ebay, until the game is over if the sale is off ebay.
First come basis.

Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites


      


From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 18:30:33 2010
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:30:33 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson super bowl
Message-ID: <f0a794131002071530k14e001a1peaea0ae61152d3e0@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone have any good suggestions on where to watch the superbowl in Tucson


From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Sun Feb  7 18:53:51 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:53:51 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite (Schmitt is wrong)(NO your
	wrong)
In-Reply-To: <280787.46967.qm@web113603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <280787.46967.qm@web113603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000301caa850$ce399250$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Hi Shawn,

I was referring to the UNESCO convention of 1970,
which indeed is a different kettle of fish,
than regional states or federal laws, like in the Lorton case.
Whether landowner, landlord, lodger, finder, keeper is the owner.

Nevertheless that UNESCO-thing is a more serious one,
cause in case, it says what a owner is allowed to do with his property or
not, and hence would be affect the free meteorite trade of collectors,
scientists, nations.

Furthermore the UNESCO-convention if applied on meteorite could lead also to
stricter regional laws, cause the clercs, politicians or whoever could get
the impression, that meteorites would be cultural items.

(Look, China e.g. made laws for fossils, which vitually are making all
fossils property of the state and if there is a private ownership, the owner
is allowed only to sell to the state).

And Schmitt is suggesting of the UNESCO convention automatically protecting
ALL meteorites (of those 90 countries which had ratified, when he published
his article).

And that is simply not true - you have only to read the fulltext of the
convention.
Meteorites aren't mentioned at all, neither they seem to meet the definition
of "cultural" heritage, given there.

And the only case they are indeed protected by the UNESCO convention is:
A) if they are part of a scientific collection
&
B) if they are listed explicitely in the individual national catalogues of
items of the cultural heritage, with each signing nation has to make.


Aaaaand, Schmitt fully forgets the UNIDROIT convention.
It is very dangerous for most countries, to declare meteorites as heritage,
and it would be a great disservice, if they would do so.
Why?
Here weg go:

http://www.unidroit.org/English/conventions/1995culturalproperty/1995cultura
lproperty-e.htm


See? If meteorites are cultural heritage by means of the 1970 convention,
then they would be also subject to the UNIDROIT convention.

And then it can happen,
that the day will come that Australia, Algeria, China, Oman, Argentina..
will knock on the door, to say:

"Give us our meteorites back".

As they are doing already with artefacts, aboriginal stuff, with fossils,
with art, with archaeological items ect.

And then we would have to dissolve the great collections, especially in the
meteorite poor countries. We would have to dissolve London, Vienna, Paris,
New York, partially also the Smithonian collection...

Because for the most meteorites from the last 200 years, they all simply
have no proof, that they were once legally exported.

Simple theoretical example:

A meteorite shower, called Pultusk.
The village museum of Pultusk hasn't any nice Pultusks.
If UK would have meteorites in their heritage lists,
the village museum could address quickly to the ministry, to make an affair
of states out of the case.
Pultusk - shortly after it felt, Mr.Krantz was travelling there, a mineral
dealer, and hunted and bought stones from the locals, as many as he could
get.
Just like the meteorite dealers of our times, no difference.
Krantz took them home to Bonn, Germany
and sold them to quite all big collections of these times.
The curator would have to rummage the archives of the London collection,
and if he's lucky he will find an old invoice, or a budget notation,
but a proof, that the Pultusks in the London collection were once legally
removed from Poland or from Germany - he or she won't find?
Why? Because before (and of course also after) the foofaraw with Australia
and Canada began, no scientist, no curator, no dealer, no collector cared
for export papers for meteorites - because nobody could have the idea, that
once in future, papers for something like - and don't forget, we're taking
about really whack objects, where still today almost nobody globally seen is
interested in - one once would need papers!

That is a problem, fully ignored, but nevertheless real.
Therefore I think it's not so good, to spread that Schmitt article around.
O.k. a normal curator will be well aware of the problem,
but past showed, that it isn't granted that all are really normal....


Best!
Martin






  


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn
Alan
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Februar 2010 21:34
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite (Schmitt is wrong)(NO your wrong)

Martin/List 

Stated by Martin......
"Hello Shawn, 
please don't use that article from Schmitt any longer, 
because it is incorrect and misleading." 

Here is the misleading article link
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M%
26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCR
EEN_GIF&classic=YES

Martin I am glad you think its misleading I guess when you read the article
you also read the part where Schmitt wrote about "General Comments on Find
Ownership" where he stated...

"The above illustrations indicate the wide range of rules about ownership of
meteorite between countries. Each legal system is unique, but in general
terms in most places the landownerer of the place of find owns the
meteorite."

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M%
26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=3&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCR
EEN_GIF&classic=YES

He further goes on and in his conclusion and states..... "Meteorite
ownership law varies widely." 

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M%
26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=5&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCR
EEN_GIF&classic=YES

By the?quotes I can infer that Schmitt has suggested that these "LAWS" vary
from country to country and from state to state so people might want to
check with their local laws on property rights. 

Lastly, Martin you stated "So we should avoid the term "ethics", in the
meteorite laws debate."..... O should we? I am confused by your should
state. I thought ?this website is set up for discussions on meteorites? I
think in the future you might want?to consider your?choice of words directed
to the list. The article?by Schmitt, I will continue?to post as a
reference?when law topics come up or when you decide to publish an
article?in Meteorite & Planetary Science that debunks Schmitts Article. 
?
Thank you
Shawn Alan





[meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite (Schmitt is wrong)
Martin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de 
Sun Feb 7 11:12:32 EST 2010 

Hello Shawn, 

please don't use that article from Schmitt any longer, 

because it is incorrect and misleading. 




Schmitt writes (with a quotation, where he left out the most important 
words), that the UNESCO convention of 1970 would include meteorites. 

And inanother place: 

"This Convention, ratified 
by over 90 states, provides for tracking and retrieving from reciprocating 
states, cultural property including meteorites." 

That is wrong. Full stop. 

The point about Switzerland is wrong too. 


Huh, would have to rummage my old emails, 
I once occupied myself with that Schmitt-topic... 

A here it is one o them (see below)... 

(Perhaps I should add, that also technically the UNESCO convention can't 
protect anything, because - as given in the text of the convention - it has 
to be ratified by each nation first, and each nation individually has to 
create an individual list of items of their national heritage. 
Only if that has happened and if meteorites are found in the individual 
national heritage lists (like e.g. in Australia) the convention is 
effective). 

And anyway, other meteorite laws... 
In most constitutional countries personal property belongs to the strongest 
personal rights and is especially protected. 
In such countries od rule of law, disappropriation (with ot without 
compensation) by a state or to limit the use of a property (like e.g. to 
forbid to sell to other countries) is grave intervention of the individual 
personal rights, which, if done, requires a especially strong resons, 
usually the pubic weal or interest. 
You know, cases of land dissapropriation for building a highway ect. 

In most of these constitutional nations, legislation and judicature are 
separated. So not the law is decisive - a judge or a court have to decide. 

Furthermore such constitutional countries do have a interdiction of 
arbitrary laws, laws made for only a single case are not effective. 
Such laws can exist, but a court has to decide and it is also possible to 
proof them by a court, whether they are constitutional or not. 

So. If e.g. a country like Switzerland or Denmark, where only every 30 or 80

years a meteorite falls, would have a special meteorite law (which they 
don't have), 
it would be highly doubtful, whether that law would be valuable. 

And if a country has a law, which allows a disappropriation by or a right of

preemption by (like Switzerland has) or a compulsory sale of a meteorite to 
the state, because it is an object of high public or scientific importance 
or interest, 
this interest has to be justified and proven. 

Switzerland e.g. would have most probably difficulties to do that. 
If one sees, that the state wasn't willing to preserve the historical 
Bally-meteorite-collection, the most important meteorite collection of 
Switzerland and that no single public institute took advantage from the 
preemption to buy it, when it was liquidated a few years ago, 
or if one keeps in mind, that no official efforts to find the meteorite of 
the Lake Constance fireball were undertaken (e.g. in Romania the state was 
hunting for the last fireballs) 
and if one sees, that Switzerland made no use of that very law with the 
large rock crystal, found in Switzerland by commercial rock hunters, but 
will buy it from them for several millions, 
than a Suisse court most probably would state, that a meteorite isn't of the

necessary importance, the law requires. 

Or in other words, a confused meteoricist can have as many laws for 
meteorites as he wants, 
whether these laws are valid at all or in the very individual case 
- in most constitutional countries will have to decide a judge. 

I'm convinced, that in some countries, the meteorite laws are in that 
respect somewhat problematic, to express it politely. 

Problem is, that most of these people who are producing meteorites in 
finding them, are to civilized to waste their time with such rubbish, 
to fight in court for stones, 
and so theses laws never were proven, whether they are valid or 
constitutional at all. 

Anyway, as doubtful some meteorite laws, I think meanwhile most see, 
that meteorite laws in general have a very negative effect. 

In Australia e.g.the strain to science is so high, 
that first voices appear, to revise the laws, that finally again meteorites 
will be found there again. 
Here a suggestion to revise the laws from Pickard of the Bathurst 
observatory. 
http://www.arts.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/88073/bathurst-observator

y.pdf 


Perhaps, in the end, in my eyes that laws debate isn't a discussion about 
ethics, as it sometimes is imposed. 
Yesterday I googled for the Chinese law for protection of cultural relics, 
whether meteorites could be afflicted too. (You know, China asks everywhere 
its fossils back). 
There I stumbled by chance over a Presidental Decree from the Philippines 
of 1974 (!) - who would ever known, that since 36 years meteorites, 
tektites, the rizalites, Anda-tektites from the Philippines are cultural 
property... 

A decree from the dictator Marcos. 
I highly doubt, that this person can be regarded as an ethical instance. 
And that unethical laws can exist, that we do know especially in Germany, 
if we think back to the Nazi-laws of disappropriation. 

So we should avoid the term "ethics", in the meteorite laws debate. 


Best! 
Martin 



..... 
Good evening again, 

at the moment I feel a little bit taken for a fool. 
May you help me? 

We read and hear often in such discussions, that some nations tell that 
meteorites fall under the UNESCO Convention on the Means of Prohibiting and 
Preventing the Illicit Import, Export and Transfer of Ownership of Cultural 
Property, as reasons for respective laws. 

Like e.g. McEwens, Schmitt & Barristers herald with a chest note of firm 
conviction as a fact in their paper of 2001 about meteorite laws: 
"This Convention, ratified 
by over 90 states, provides for tracking and retrieving from reciprocating 
states, cultural property including meteorites." 
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2001/pdf/5150.pdf 

Well, therefore I read now the convention (in German and in English). 

"including meteorites" is untrue. 

Meteorites are NOT mentioned in the convention, with no single word at all. 

And here is the wording of the definition of such "cultural property", 
synonym with "cultural heritage" later in the text of the convention. 
Quote: 

"Article 1 

For the purposes of this Convention, the term `cultural property' means 
property which, on religious or secular grounds, is specifically designated 
by each State as being of importance for archaeology, prehistory, history, 
literature, art or science..." 

Followed by a catalogue of items of such cultural property. 
A catalogue is a list. The intention to list all items as completely as 
possible is perceptible in the sometimes detailed way of description. 

Quote continued: 
"... and which belongs to the following categories: 

(a) Rare collections and specimens of fauna, flora, minerals and anatomy, 
and objects of palaeontological interest; 

(b) property relating to history, including the history of science and 
technology and military and social history, to the life of national leaders,

thinkers, scientists and artist and to events of national importance; 

(c) products of archaeological excavations (including regular and 
clandestine) or of archaeological discoveries ; 

(d) elements of artistic or historical monuments or archaeological sites 
which have been dismembered; 

(e) antiquities more than one hundred years old, such as inscriptions, coins

and engraved seals; 

(f) objects of ethnological interest; 

(g) property of artistic interest, such as: 

(i) pictures, paintings and drawings produced entirely by hand on any 
support and in any material (excluding industrial designs and manu-factured 
articles decorated by hand); 

(ii) original works of statuary art and sculpture in any material; 

(iii) original engravings, prints and lithographs ; 

(iv) original artistic assemblages and montages in any material; 

(h) rare manuscripts and incunabula, old books, documents and publications 
of special interest (historical, artistic, scientific, literary, etc.) 
singly or in collections ; 

(i) postage, revenue and similar stamps, singly or in collections; 

(j) archives, including sound, photographic and cinematographic archives; 

(k) articles of furniture more than one hundred years old and old musical 
instruments." 

Where are the meteorites? 

Central point of the convention is the "cultural heritage". 
See also: 

"Article 4 

The States Parties to this Convention recognize that for the purpose of the 
Convention property which belongs to the following categories forms part of 
the cultural heritage of each State: 

(a) Cultural property created by the individual or collective genius of 
nationals of the State concerned, and cultural property of importance to the

State concerned created within the territory of that State by foreign 
nationals or stateless persons resident within such territory; 

(b) cultural property found within the national territory; 

(c) cultural property acquired by archaeological, ethnological or natural 
science missions, with the consent of the competent authorities of the 
country of origin of such property; 

(d) cultural property which has been the subject of a freely agreed 
exchange; 

(e) cultural property received as a gift or purchased legally with the 
consent of the competent authorities of the country of origin of such 
property." 

Please can someone help me, what the exact semantics and meaning of the 
English word "heritage" is? 

The German version of the convention has the word "Erbe" for "heritage". 
"Erbe" means the object, that is given from an antecessor to his progeny, it

is something inherited, it originated in past, the factor of time is in that

word. Heritage is something long-standing, traditional, passed-down, heirs 
inherit a heritage. 

And here we are? The only word in the convention, which could be so 
overstretched, that one could tear it over meteorites is 

"(a) Rare collections and specimens of fauna, flora, MINERALS and anatomy, 
and objects of palaeontological interest" 

That sentence, especially if you read the other points (b) to (e) is there 
to avoid, that parts of museum collections will be trafficked. 

Well, is there anybody out, 
who can enlighten me, how a new fall of a meteorite - hence an object, that 
since beginnings of the solar system had no contact with humans or Earth at 
all, can be a priori part of the cultural heritage of a country?? 

Where are the cultural properties of a stone, which is lying unnoticed by 
mankind, animals, dinosaurs in the wasteland and which hadn't formed the 
landscape? 
Why the Antarctic finds then aren't protected as cultural heritage? 
How a stone, where nobody knows, whether it is a meteorite or terrestrial, 
can be exported illegally, if only later in a lab it is positively tested 
and recognized as meteorite? 

Did someone write a poem about Hughes 057? 
Do we have any nomad songs about NWA 2487? 
When Tagish Lake felt, were there a sect crawling out the bushes: The 
prophecy is fulfilled? 

When happened the fall of Carancas? 100 years ago? 
If a nomad pics up a black stone, is this than a cultural act? 
Stays the stone cultural property, if it was no meteorite but a sandstone? 

Please Jerry, don't paint any meteorite falls anymore, the stones will be 
immediately cultural heritage. 

Here is the full text of the convention: 
http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=13039&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=

201.html 


I personally see another interesting point. The convention was passed in 
1970. 

The earliest article, bemoaning that there are meteorites dealt and where a 
prohibitive legislation was demanded, I could found in internet, stem from 
1991. 
Maybe someone could find some earlier ones? 
Else one is tempted to get an impression, that in the early 90ies scientist 
found out, ooops, there are private individuals finding a lot of new 
meteorites, let's get them all! And others will tell: Sounds like trivial 
greed. 

I for my part think, that the effort to try refer to the convention, is 
ridiculous. 
It never was made, nor meant for meteorites. 
The only straws to clutch at, is the single word "minerals", torn out of the

context. 
With that construction, the export of coal, oil and cement would fall under 
the Convention of Cultural Property too. 

(Note the title, it says "Ownership"...see my last post). 

To pretend, that meteorites would be covered by the convention, is 
absolutely inappropriate. 
Therefore the respective countries should make a national lex meteoritica 
each or they should let it be. 


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- 
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn

Alan 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Februar 2010 02:27 
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; astroroks at hotmail.com 
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 

Dennis/List 

Click on the link below and this might help with laws on ownership of 
meteorites. 

Shawn Alan 


http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M%

26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCR

EEN_GIF&classic=YES 






[meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 
Dennis Miller astroroks at hotmail.com 
Sat Feb 6 19:53:51 EST 2010 

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----------------------------------------------------------------------------

---- 

I am an uninformed reader but, where can I find these 
"Meteorite Laws"? I usually only carry a copy of the 
Federal Regulations Title 43 Part 8360, that allows me 
to remove mineral specimens from public lands, should 
I run into an agent who is not familiar with the law. 
But, I am not familiar with "Meteorite Laws". I know 
that Michelle Knapps had no trouble claiming and selling 
the Peekskill meteorite. 
Just need to know where to find these said new laws.. 
Thanks! Miss seeing everyone in Tucson. Had to have 
a Knee tune up after tromping around Egypt. 
Dennis 
---------------------------------------- 


> From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com 



> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 



> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:39:46 -0500 



> Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 



> 



> Hiya Carl, gun lovers and haters: 



> 



> I was merely stating the law as it now stands. If a meteorite falls on 

your 


> property, you own it. An open and shut case. If the Smithsonian wants to 



> appeal to the Supreme Court, the Court could possibly rule that current 



> meteorite laws are unconstitutional. It's extremely unlikely they would 

hear 


> the case. It's highly unlikely even a Circuit judge would strike down 



> current meteorite laws as unconstitutional. Or any judge for that matter. 



> The Smithsonian has the lawyers and the funding of the federal gov't 

backing 


> them, they could try to argue the laws are unconstitutional, highly 

unlikely 


> as there is practically no chance they would win. 



> 



> What they could do is go straight to the President and get either a 



> presidential decree or have the Justice Dep't write some memos like they 



> did legalizing torture. Again not a chance. 



> 



> More likely they could get a Congressman to introduce a bill changing the 



> meteorite laws, but it would never make it out of the first round of 



> sub-committes. 



> 



> Possession might be nine tenths of the law, but I'll be dollars to donuts 



> the Smithsonian gives it back. 



> 



> 



> Phil Whitmer 



> 



> ______________________________________________ 



> Visit the Archives at 

http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 


> Meteorite-list mailing list 



> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 



> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


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From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  7 10:41:47 2010
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 07:41:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 4
Message-ID: <547132.33956.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>



Good morning list.Well 4 days are in the book and it's time to get ready to wrap up what will probably be my last show for a couple of years.It is raining here on this Sunday morn. Yesterday was another great day. It was sunny and 70 degree's! I met up with a few newbies I had not met with. Linton Rohr and Eric Fisler and his very nice family. Yesterday I bought 3 more new meteorites for the collection. I got another Sikhote-Alin from Mike Farmer. It is a super nice 200 gram piece. I even have a picture to prove I bought it. I got a 7 gram part slice of the new witness fall from Ecuador,DUALE that Mike Farmer found. And finally my biggest purchase of the show, a 32 gram full thick slice of Pena Blanca Springs aubrite I had been looking for a nice piece for years. We pretty much stayed around the inn suites all day till around 5 pm. We then went to dinner and on to the auction. There were about 80 auctions and some nice material but? nothing to blow your
 nose at. I got the 2 items I wanted. A 14 gram slice of Park Forest and a 9 gram part slice of Nwa 3161. The really interesting item of the show was how Count Diero toke over the auction for Mike Blood. He showed what it really means to be a " real " auctioneer. Way to go Count! The show ended about 9:50 pm. We said our good byes and went home for the night. For me this was probsbly my best show. I come home with 11 new meteorites and $600. I pretty much stood my my guns,OOOPPPS! Sorry,such a touchy subject these day!!!! :) I bought and traded for what I really wanted. And a BBBBIIIIIIGGGG thanks to Jim Strope. Tomorrow at home I'll have a wrap up from day 5 and start putting pics up on my website. It has really? been a pleasure to meet so many nice people this year at one of the best shows ever.Greeting from rainy tucson and have a great day.




?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Sun Feb  7 20:02:21 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (michael at rocksfromspace.org)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 01:02:21 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 4
In-Reply-To: <547132.33956.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <547132.33956.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1755907801-1265590901-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-199222177-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

> I got another Sikhote-Alin from Mike Farmer. It is a super nice 200 gram piece. I even have a picture to prove I bought it.<

Prove it Steve! Send me a photo!!
;-)
MJ

Thumbed On My BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: steve arnold <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 07:41:47 
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 4



Good morning list.Well 4 days are in the book and it's time to get ready to wrap up what will probably be my last show for a couple of years.It is raining here on this Sunday morn. Yesterday was another great day. It was sunny and 70 degree's! I met up with a few newbies I had not met with. Linton Rohr and Eric Fisler and his very nice family. Yesterday I bought 3 more new meteorites for the collection. I got another Sikhote-Alin from Mike Farmer. It is a super nice 200 gram piece. I even have a picture to prove I bought it. I got a 7 gram part slice of the new witness fall from Ecuador,DUALE that Mike Farmer found. And finally my biggest purchase of the show, a 32 gram full thick slice of Pena Blanca Springs aubrite I had been looking for a nice piece for years. We pretty much stayed around the inn suites all day till around 5 pm. We then went to dinner and on to the auction. There were about 80 auctions and some nice material but? nothing to blow your
 nose at. I got the 2 items I wanted. A 14 gram slice of Park Forest and a 9 gram part slice of Nwa 3161. The really interesting item of the show was how Count Diero toke over the auction for Mike Blood. He showed what it really means to be a " real " auctioneer. Way to go Count! The show ended about 9:50 pm. We said our good byes and went home for the night. For me this was probsbly my best show. I come home with 11 new meteorites and $600. I pretty much stood my my guns,OOOPPPS! Sorry,such a touchy subject these day!!!! :) I bought and traded for what I really wanted. And a BBBBIIIIIIGGGG thanks to Jim Strope. Tomorrow at home I'll have a wrap up from day 5 and start putting pics up on my website. It has really? been a pleasure to meet so many nice people this year at one of the best shows ever.Greeting from rainy tucson and have a great day.




?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From waltbranch at bellsouth.net  Sun Feb  7 20:46:25 2010
From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:46:25 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mark Bostick?
Message-ID: <6EC7745C043F4552999E154F108270FA@acer330bb84976>

Hello Everyone,

Can somebody tell me, whatever happened to meteorite collector and dealer 
Mark Bostick?

-Walter Branch
_________________ 



From warnerem at astro.umd.edu  Sun Feb  7 20:47:49 2010
From: warnerem at astro.umd.edu (Elizabeth Warner)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:47:49 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] funny commercial
In-Reply-To: <1755907801-1265590901-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-199222177-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <547132.33956.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<1755907801-1265590901-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-199222177-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <4B6F6D45.4070304@astro.umd.edu>

Okay, so, http://www.spike.com/video/bud-light/3334612

Enjoy!

Elizabeth


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Sun Feb  7 21:04:37 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:04:37 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT Fw: "more interesting than a debate about
	firearms"
Message-ID: <4B6F7135.6080201@cox.net>

Linton Rohr wrote:

""IMO, the 2010 gem show is considerably more
interesting than a debate about firearms.""

"Absolutely, Geoff! It's a damn shame to have this
nonsense on the list during the big event of
the year. Linton - off to the show..."

Quite true, except maybe for this type of gun:  :-)  :-)

"Potato Cannon"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpAJOPzKK-M

Test of my biggest potato cannon with 800 gram ammo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdFK5eVmZ3o

Potato Gun Explosions at 250 mph!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpbtlK5E1QQ

When potatoes are outlawed, we will use onions instead.

Yours,

Paul H.


From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Sun Feb  7 21:25:56 2010
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:25:56 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] funny commercial
In-Reply-To: <4B6F6D45.4070304@astro.umd.edu>
References: <547132.33956.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<1755907801-1265590901-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-199222177-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<4B6F6D45.4070304@astro.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <6dc00173954d8b3c02c18dd950c9dbf9.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Elizabeth:

Bud Light Planetarium???

Thanks,

Larry

> Okay, so, http://www.spike.com/video/bud-light/3334612
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Elizabeth
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From warnerem at astro.umd.edu  Sun Feb  7 21:31:16 2010
From: warnerem at astro.umd.edu (Elizabeth Warner)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:31:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] funny commercial
In-Reply-To: <6dc00173954d8b3c02c18dd950c9dbf9.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>
References: <547132.33956.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>   
	<1755907801-1265590901-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-199222177-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<4B6F6D45.4070304@astro.umd.edu>
	<6dc00173954d8b3c02c18dd950c9dbf9.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1002072130240.8021@gaia.astro.umd.edu>

Yes, clearly the "name" is wrong... but there is a reason why I posted it 
to the list...

Clear Skies!
Elizabeth



On Sun, 7 Feb 2010, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu wrote:

> Elizabeth:
>
> Bud Light Planetarium???
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
>
>> Okay, so, http://www.spike.com/video/bud-light/3334612
>>
>> Enjoy!
>>
>> Elizabeth
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 22:22:32 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:22:32 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Marketing Meteorites as Investments
Message-ID: <e51421551002071922o14f09e46y8d04e85a3eac9cd8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

Someone with expertise in this area, please weigh in on this.

It has always been my understanding that if a person offers a product
or service and language is used that describes the product/service as
an investment, then the securities and exchange laws come into play.
If one offers an investment (be it gold, a market account, etc), then
a can of legal worms is opened, correct?  This is why we don't hear of
meteorites being offered as investments.....or is it?

Just curious.

Best regards and happy huntings,

MikeG




-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  7 22:22:32 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:22:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite (Schmitt is
	wrong)(NO your wrong)
Message-ID: <588193.2924.qm@web113601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Martin,

I like your insight but to ignore or suggest what should be placed on the list even though it pertains to meteorites is wrong from this statement you made....

" That is a problem, fully ignored, but nevertheless real. 
Therefore I think it's not so good, to spread that Schmitt article around. 
O.k. a normal curator will be well aware of the problem, 
but past showed, that it isn't granted that all are really normal...." 

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M%26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_GIF&classic=YES 



Thank 
Shawn Alan
?



[meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite (Schmitt is wrong)(NO your wrong)
Martin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de 
Sun Feb 7 18:53:51 EST 2010 


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Hi Shawn, 

I was referring to the UNESCO convention of 1970, 
which indeed is a different kettle of fish, 
than regional states or federal laws, like in the Lorton case. 
Whether landowner, landlord, lodger, finder, keeper is the owner. 

Nevertheless that UNESCO-thing is a more serious one, 
cause in case, it says what a owner is allowed to do with his property or 
not, and hence would be affect the free meteorite trade of collectors, 
scientists, nations. 

Furthermore the UNESCO-convention if applied on meteorite could lead also to 
stricter regional laws, cause the clercs, politicians or whoever could get 
the impression, that meteorites would be cultural items. 

(Look, China e.g. made laws for fossils, which vitually are making all 
fossils property of the state and if there is a private ownership, the owner 
is allowed only to sell to the state). 

And Schmitt is suggesting of the UNESCO convention automatically protecting 
ALL meteorites (of those 90 countries which had ratified, when he published 
his article). 

And that is simply not true - you have only to read the fulltext of the 
convention. 
Meteorites aren't mentioned at all, neither they seem to meet the definition 
of "cultural" heritage, given there. 

And the only case they are indeed protected by the UNESCO convention is: 
A) if they are part of a scientific collection 
& 
B) if they are listed explicitely in the individual national catalogues of 
items of the cultural heritage, with each signing nation has to make. 


Aaaaand, Schmitt fully forgets the UNIDROIT convention. 
It is very dangerous for most countries, to declare meteorites as heritage, 
and it would be a great disservice, if they would do so. 
Why? 
Here weg go: 

http://www.unidroit.org/English/conventions/1995culturalproperty/1995cultura 
lproperty-e.htm 


See? If meteorites are cultural heritage by means of the 1970 convention, 
then they would be also subject to the UNIDROIT convention. 

And then it can happen, 
that the day will come that Australia, Algeria, China, Oman, Argentina.. 
will knock on the door, to say: 

"Give us our meteorites back". 

As they are doing already with artefacts, aboriginal stuff, with fossils, 
with art, with archaeological items ect. 

And then we would have to dissolve the great collections, especially in the 
meteorite poor countries. We would have to dissolve London, Vienna, Paris, 
New York, partially also the Smithonian collection... 

Because for the most meteorites from the last 200 years, they all simply 
have no proof, that they were once legally exported. 

Simple theoretical example: 

A meteorite shower, called Pultusk. 
The village museum of Pultusk hasn't any nice Pultusks. 
If UK would have meteorites in their heritage lists, 
the village museum could address quickly to the ministry, to make an affair 
of states out of the case. 
Pultusk - shortly after it felt, Mr.Krantz was travelling there, a mineral 
dealer, and hunted and bought stones from the locals, as many as he could 
get. 
Just like the meteorite dealers of our times, no difference. 
Krantz took them home to Bonn, Germany 
and sold them to quite all big collections of these times. 
The curator would have to rummage the archives of the London collection, 
and if he's lucky he will find an old invoice, or a budget notation, 
but a proof, that the Pultusks in the London collection were once legally 
removed from Poland or from Germany - he or she won't find? 
Why? Because before (and of course also after) the foofaraw with Australia 
and Canada began, no scientist, no curator, no dealer, no collector cared 
for export papers for meteorites - because nobody could have the idea, that 
once in future, papers for something like - and don't forget, we're taking 
about really whack objects, where still today almost nobody globally seen is 
interested in - one once would need papers! 

That is a problem, fully ignored, but nevertheless real. 
Therefore I think it's not so good, to spread that Schmitt article around. 
O.k. a normal curator will be well aware of the problem, 
but past showed, that it isn't granted that all are really normal.... 


Best! 
Martin 









-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- 
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn 
Alan 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Februar 2010 21:34 
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite (Schmitt is wrong)(NO your wrong) 

Martin/List 

Stated by Martin...... 
"Hello Shawn, 
please don't use that article from Schmitt any longer, 
because it is incorrect and misleading." 

Here is the misleading article link 
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M% 
26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCR 
EEN_GIF&classic=YES 

Martin I am glad you think its misleading I guess when you read the article 
you also read the part where Schmitt wrote about "General Comments on Find 
Ownership" where he stated... 

"The above illustrations indicate the wide range of rules about ownership of 
meteorite between countries. Each legal system is unique, but in general 
terms in most places the landownerer of the place of find owns the 
meteorite." 

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M% 
26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=3&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCR 
EEN_GIF&classic=YES 

He further goes on and in his conclusion and states..... "Meteorite 
ownership law varies widely." 

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M% 
26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=5&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCR 
EEN_GIF&classic=YES 

By the?quotes I can infer that Schmitt has suggested that these "LAWS" vary 
from country to country and from state to state so people might want to 
check with their local laws on property rights. 

Lastly, Martin you stated "So we should avoid the term "ethics", in the 
meteorite laws debate."..... O should we? I am confused by your should 
state. I thought ?this website is set up for discussions on meteorites? I 
think in the future you might want?to consider your?choice of words directed 
to the list. The article?by Schmitt, I will continue?to post as a 
reference?when law topics come up or when you decide to publish an 
article?in Meteorite & Planetary Science that debunks Schmitts Article. 
? 
Thank you 
Shawn Alan 





[meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite (Schmitt is wrong) 
Martin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de 
Sun Feb 7 11:12:32 EST 2010 

Hello Shawn, 

please don't use that article from Schmitt any longer, 

because it is incorrect and misleading. 




Schmitt writes (with a quotation, where he left out the most important 
words), that the UNESCO convention of 1970 would include meteorites. 

And inanother place: 

"This Convention, ratified 
by over 90 states, provides for tracking and retrieving from reciprocating 
states, cultural property including meteorites." 

That is wrong. Full stop. 

The point about Switzerland is wrong too. 


Huh, would have to rummage my old emails, 
I once occupied myself with that Schmitt-topic... 

A here it is one o them (see below)... 

(Perhaps I should add, that also technically the UNESCO convention can't 
protect anything, because - as given in the text of the convention - it has 
to be ratified by each nation first, and each nation individually has to 
create an individual list of items of their national heritage. 
Only if that has happened and if meteorites are found in the individual 
national heritage lists (like e.g. in Australia) the convention is 
effective). 

And anyway, other meteorite laws... 
In most constitutional countries personal property belongs to the strongest 
personal rights and is especially protected. 
In such countries od rule of law, disappropriation (with ot without 
compensation) by a state or to limit the use of a property (like e.g. to 
forbid to sell to other countries) is grave intervention of the individual 
personal rights, which, if done, requires a especially strong resons, 
usually the pubic weal or interest. 
You know, cases of land dissapropriation for building a highway ect. 

In most of these constitutional nations, legislation and judicature are 
separated. So not the law is decisive - a judge or a court have to decide. 

Furthermore such constitutional countries do have a interdiction of 
arbitrary laws, laws made for only a single case are not effective. 
Such laws can exist, but a court has to decide and it is also possible to 
proof them by a court, whether they are constitutional or not. 

So. If e.g. a country like Switzerland or Denmark, where only every 30 or 80 

years a meteorite falls, would have a special meteorite law (which they 
don't have), 
it would be highly doubtful, whether that law would be valuable. 

And if a country has a law, which allows a disappropriation by or a right of 

preemption by (like Switzerland has) or a compulsory sale of a meteorite to 
the state, because it is an object of high public or scientific importance 
or interest, 
this interest has to be justified and proven. 

Switzerland e.g. would have most probably difficulties to do that. 
If one sees, that the state wasn't willing to preserve the historical 
Bally-meteorite-collection, the most important meteorite collection of 
Switzerland and that no single public institute took advantage from the 
preemption to buy it, when it was liquidated a few years ago, 
or if one keeps in mind, that no official efforts to find the meteorite of 
the Lake Constance fireball were undertaken (e.g. in Romania the state was 
hunting for the last fireballs) 
and if one sees, that Switzerland made no use of that very law with the 
large rock crystal, found in Switzerland by commercial rock hunters, but 
will buy it from them for several millions, 
than a Suisse court most probably would state, that a meteorite isn't of the 

necessary importance, the law requires. 

Or in other words, a confused meteoricist can have as many laws for 
meteorites as he wants, 
whether these laws are valid at all or in the very individual case 
- in most constitutional countries will have to decide a judge. 

I'm convinced, that in some countries, the meteorite laws are in that 
respect somewhat problematic, to express it politely. 

Problem is, that most of these people who are producing meteorites in 
finding them, are to civilized to waste their time with such rubbish, 
to fight in court for stones, 
and so theses laws never were proven, whether they are valid or 
constitutional at all. 

Anyway, as doubtful some meteorite laws, I think meanwhile most see, 
that meteorite laws in general have a very negative effect. 

In Australia e.g.the strain to science is so high, 
that first voices appear, to revise the laws, that finally again meteorites 
will be found there again. 
Here a suggestion to revise the laws from Pickard of the Bathurst 
observatory. 
http://www.arts.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/88073/bathurst-observator 

y.pdf 


Perhaps, in the end, in my eyes that laws debate isn't a discussion about 
ethics, as it sometimes is imposed. 
Yesterday I googled for the Chinese law for protection of cultural relics, 
whether meteorites could be afflicted too. (You know, China asks everywhere 
its fossils back). 
There I stumbled by chance over a Presidental Decree from the Philippines 
of 1974 (!) - who would ever known, that since 36 years meteorites, 
tektites, the rizalites, Anda-tektites from the Philippines are cultural 
property... 

A decree from the dictator Marcos. 
I highly doubt, that this person can be regarded as an ethical instance. 
And that unethical laws can exist, that we do know especially in Germany, 
if we think back to the Nazi-laws of disappropriation. 

So we should avoid the term "ethics", in the meteorite laws debate. 


Best! 
Martin 



..... 
Good evening again, 

at the moment I feel a little bit taken for a fool. 
May you help me? 

We read and hear often in such discussions, that some nations tell that 
meteorites fall under the UNESCO Convention on the Means of Prohibiting and 
Preventing the Illicit Import, Export and Transfer of Ownership of Cultural 
Property, as reasons for respective laws. 

Like e.g. McEwens, Schmitt & Barristers herald with a chest note of firm 
conviction as a fact in their paper of 2001 about meteorite laws: 
"This Convention, ratified 
by over 90 states, provides for tracking and retrieving from reciprocating 
states, cultural property including meteorites." 
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2001/pdf/5150.pdf 

Well, therefore I read now the convention (in German and in English). 

"including meteorites" is untrue. 

Meteorites are NOT mentioned in the convention, with no single word at all. 

And here is the wording of the definition of such "cultural property", 
synonym with "cultural heritage" later in the text of the convention. 
Quote: 

"Article 1 

For the purposes of this Convention, the term `cultural property' means 
property which, on religious or secular grounds, is specifically designated 
by each State as being of importance for archaeology, prehistory, history, 
literature, art or science..." 

Followed by a catalogue of items of such cultural property. 
A catalogue is a list. The intention to list all items as completely as 
possible is perceptible in the sometimes detailed way of description. 

Quote continued: 
"... and which belongs to the following categories: 

(a) Rare collections and specimens of fauna, flora, minerals and anatomy, 
and objects of palaeontological interest; 

(b) property relating to history, including the history of science and 
technology and military and social history, to the life of national leaders, 

thinkers, scientists and artist and to events of national importance; 

(c) products of archaeological excavations (including regular and 
clandestine) or of archaeological discoveries ; 

(d) elements of artistic or historical monuments or archaeological sites 
which have been dismembered; 

(e) antiquities more than one hundred years old, such as inscriptions, coins 

and engraved seals; 

(f) objects of ethnological interest; 

(g) property of artistic interest, such as: 

(i) pictures, paintings and drawings produced entirely by hand on any 
support and in any material (excluding industrial designs and manu-factured 
articles decorated by hand); 

(ii) original works of statuary art and sculpture in any material; 

(iii) original engravings, prints and lithographs ; 

(iv) original artistic assemblages and montages in any material; 

(h) rare manuscripts and incunabula, old books, documents and publications 
of special interest (historical, artistic, scientific, literary, etc.) 
singly or in collections ; 

(i) postage, revenue and similar stamps, singly or in collections; 

(j) archives, including sound, photographic and cinematographic archives; 

(k) articles of furniture more than one hundred years old and old musical 
instruments." 

Where are the meteorites? 

Central point of the convention is the "cultural heritage". 
See also: 

"Article 4 

The States Parties to this Convention recognize that for the purpose of the 
Convention property which belongs to the following categories forms part of 
the cultural heritage of each State: 

(a) Cultural property created by the individual or collective genius of 
nationals of the State concerned, and cultural property of importance to the 

State concerned created within the territory of that State by foreign 
nationals or stateless persons resident within such territory; 

(b) cultural property found within the national territory; 

(c) cultural property acquired by archaeological, ethnological or natural 
science missions, with the consent of the competent authorities of the 
country of origin of such property; 

(d) cultural property which has been the subject of a freely agreed 
exchange; 

(e) cultural property received as a gift or purchased legally with the 
consent of the competent authorities of the country of origin of such 
property." 

Please can someone help me, what the exact semantics and meaning of the 
English word "heritage" is? 

The German version of the convention has the word "Erbe" for "heritage". 
"Erbe" means the object, that is given from an antecessor to his progeny, it 

is something inherited, it originated in past, the factor of time is in that 

word. Heritage is something long-standing, traditional, passed-down, heirs 
inherit a heritage. 

And here we are? The only word in the convention, which could be so 
overstretched, that one could tear it over meteorites is 

"(a) Rare collections and specimens of fauna, flora, MINERALS and anatomy, 
and objects of palaeontological interest" 

That sentence, especially if you read the other points (b) to (e) is there 
to avoid, that parts of museum collections will be trafficked. 

Well, is there anybody out, 
who can enlighten me, how a new fall of a meteorite - hence an object, that 
since beginnings of the solar system had no contact with humans or Earth at 
all, can be a priori part of the cultural heritage of a country?? 

Where are the cultural properties of a stone, which is lying unnoticed by 
mankind, animals, dinosaurs in the wasteland and which hadn't formed the 
landscape? 
Why the Antarctic finds then aren't protected as cultural heritage? 
How a stone, where nobody knows, whether it is a meteorite or terrestrial, 
can be exported illegally, if only later in a lab it is positively tested 
and recognized as meteorite? 

Did someone write a poem about Hughes 057? 
Do we have any nomad songs about NWA 2487? 
When Tagish Lake felt, were there a sect crawling out the bushes: The 
prophecy is fulfilled? 

When happened the fall of Carancas? 100 years ago? 
If a nomad pics up a black stone, is this than a cultural act? 
Stays the stone cultural property, if it was no meteorite but a sandstone? 

Please Jerry, don't paint any meteorite falls anymore, the stones will be 
immediately cultural heritage. 

Here is the full text of the convention: 
http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=13039&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION= 

201.html 


I personally see another interesting point. The convention was passed in 
1970. 

The earliest article, bemoaning that there are meteorites dealt and where a 
prohibitive legislation was demanded, I could found in internet, stem from 
1991. 
Maybe someone could find some earlier ones? 
Else one is tempted to get an impression, that in the early 90ies scientist 
found out, ooops, there are private individuals finding a lot of new 
meteorites, let's get them all! And others will tell: Sounds like trivial 
greed. 

I for my part think, that the effort to try refer to the convention, is 
ridiculous. 
It never was made, nor meant for meteorites. 
The only straws to clutch at, is the single word "minerals", torn out of the 

context. 
With that construction, the export of coal, oil and cement would fall under 
the Convention of Cultural Property too. 

(Note the title, it says "Ownership"...see my last post). 

To pretend, that meteorites would be covered by the convention, is 
absolutely inappropriate. 
Therefore the respective countries should make a national lex meteoritica 
each or they should let it be. 


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- 
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn 

Alan 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Februar 2010 02:27 
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; astroroks at hotmail.com 
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 

Dennis/List 

Click on the link below and this might help with laws on ownership of 
meteorites. 

Shawn Alan 


http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=2002M% 

26PSB..37....5S&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCR 

EEN_GIF&classic=YES 






[meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 
Dennis Miller astroroks at hotmail.com 
Sat Feb 6 19:53:51 EST 2010 

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---- 

I am an uninformed reader but, where can I find these 
"Meteorite Laws"? I usually only carry a copy of the 
Federal Regulations Title 43 Part 8360, that allows me 
to remove mineral specimens from public lands, should 
I run into an agent who is not familiar with the law. 
But, I am not familiar with "Meteorite Laws". I know 
that Michelle Knapps had no trouble claiming and selling 
the Peekskill meteorite. 
Just need to know where to find these said new laws.. 
Thanks! Miss seeing everyone in Tucson. Had to have 
a Knee tune up after tromping around Egypt. 
Dennis 
---------------------------------------- 



> From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com 





> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 





> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:39:46 -0500 





> Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton Meteorite 





> 





> Hiya Carl, gun lovers and haters: 





> 





> I was merely stating the law as it now stands. If a meteorite falls on 


your 



> property, you own it. An open and shut case. If the Smithsonian wants to 





> appeal to the Supreme Court, the Court could possibly rule that current 





> meteorite laws are unconstitutional. It's extremely unlikely they would 


hear 



> the case. It's highly unlikely even a Circuit judge would strike down 





> current meteorite laws as unconstitutional. Or any judge for that matter. 





> The Smithsonian has the lawyers and the funding of the federal gov't 


backing 



> them, they could try to argue the laws are unconstitutional, highly 


unlikely 



> as there is practically no chance they would win. 





> 





> What they could do is go straight to the President and get either a 





> presidential decree or have the Justice Dep't write some memos like they 





> did legalizing torture. Again not a chance. 





> 





> More likely they could get a Congressman to introduce a bill changing the 





> meteorite laws, but it would never make it out of the first round of 





> sub-committes. 





> 





> Possession might be nine tenths of the law, but I'll be dollars to donuts 





> the Smithsonian gives it back. 





> 





> 





> Phil Whitmer 





> 





> ______________________________________________ 





> Visit the Archives at 


http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 



> Meteorite-list mailing list 





> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 





> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



_________________________________________________________________ 
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From freequarks at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 22:42:31 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:42:31 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mark Bostick?
In-Reply-To: <6EC7745C043F4552999E154F108270FA@acer330bb84976>
References: <6EC7745C043F4552999E154F108270FA@acer330bb84976>
Message-ID: <822da19a1002071942y3858070fpc3dd9860dbea6c4b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi  Walter,

Last I heard was that Mark had to pull out of meteorites to care for
someone, an elderly parent  or sibling maybe.

Oh, by the way, when you mentioned your three year accident
anniversary, I thought I'd tell you that before the accident, I bought
a smooth oriented Sikhote-Alin from your collection. After the
accident, I thought of sending it back to you, but instead I put it in
my center desk drawer. Whenever I needed a pen I opened the drawer,
saw the SA and thought about you and your daughter.

I think we both had and raised our kids while on this List, and I
remember discussion child rearing with you back at the turn of the
century. Our daughters are about the same age, and if you and your
daughter no longer need my daily drawer thoughts, I'd be happy to send
the SA to your daughter to continue her meteorite collecting.

Best,

Martin




On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Walter Branch <waltbranch at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> Can somebody tell me, whatever happened to meteorite collector and dealer
> Mark Bostick?
>
> -Walter Branch
> _________________
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Sun Feb  7 23:05:12 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:05:12 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mark Bostick?
In-Reply-To: <822da19a1002071942y3858070fpc3dd9860dbea6c4b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100208040514.64D6F1054C@mailwash5.pair.com>

I was the highest bidder on a postcard from him on eBay but I never received
it, nor got a response from him when I inquired about it (July 2008).  After
I heard about his personal ordeal, I just wrote it off and hoped his life
would get back to normalcy.  I haven't heard anything since then.  I hope he
is well.

Regards,

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Dark
Matter
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 8:43 PM
To: Walter Branch
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mark Bostick?

Hi  Walter,

Last I heard was that Mark had to pull out of meteorites to care for
someone, an elderly parent  or sibling maybe.

Oh, by the way, when you mentioned your three year accident
anniversary, I thought I'd tell you that before the accident, I bought
a smooth oriented Sikhote-Alin from your collection. After the
accident, I thought of sending it back to you, but instead I put it in
my center desk drawer. Whenever I needed a pen I opened the drawer,
saw the SA and thought about you and your daughter.

I think we both had and raised our kids while on this List, and I
remember discussion child rearing with you back at the turn of the
century. Our daughters are about the same age, and if you and your
daughter no longer need my daily drawer thoughts, I'd be happy to send
the SA to your daughter to continue her meteorite collecting.

Best,

Martin




On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Walter Branch <waltbranch at bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> Can somebody tell me, whatever happened to meteorite collector and dealer
> Mark Bostick?
>
> -Walter Branch
> _________________
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/07/10
00:22:00



From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Sun Feb  7 23:06:35 2010
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:06:35 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Gold Basin strewn field correction on a post
	byCarl Esparza
In-Reply-To: <70F75F42DCA842BCBB6B121C70F639BA@DFZN8X81>
Message-ID: <20100208040637.773991055B@mailwash5.pair.com>

Hi Twink!

Thanks for the detailed explanation.  I hope you had (or are having) a great
Tucson show.

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Larry &
Twink Monrad
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:58 PM
To: cdtucson at cox.net; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Gold Basin strewn field correction on a post
byCarl Esparza

No Carl, you do not have this right at all.

What I told you the other night is that Jim Kriegh, John Blennert and I 
turned in all of our first several hundred specimens to Dr. Kring at the U 
of A.  These were found on BLM land where the field was discovered while 
hunting for gold.  Dolores Hill and Dr. Kring went through these one by one,

bagged and labeled them, as Dolores can attest.  Twenty per cent of these 
went to the Smithsonian.  The rest were eventually given back to us by Dr. 
Kring except for a few that the University needed for classification.  John,

Jim and I also donated several to the University of Arizona Mineral Museum 
which they still own.  As all of us discovered different meteorites in the 
same strewn field, they were also examined, classified and returned to us 
except for the slices kept by the U of A for classification.

It was a year later that Dr. Kring obtained for Jim Kriegh a permit to hunt 
on the Lake Mead Recreation Area and  Jim, John and I hunted there for a 
while and were honored to do so.  Dr. Kring was interested in knowing 
whether the strewn field covered the Recreation Area.  When we found Gold 
Basin meteorites at various points even overlooking Lake Mead and walked 
over lots of flat land and into canyons on both sides of the road into the 
Recreation area it was obvious that yes, the field extended to Lake Mead. 
All of these finds on the Lake Mead Recreation area were turned over to Dr. 
Kring who in turn sent them to the Smithsonian as that had been in the 
agreement in order to get the permit to hunt on the Recreation area. We had 
hunted briefly at various spots just to see where they occurred.   Jim 
Kriegh did not ask for the permit to be extended since the information that 
Dr. Kring needed had been verified.

Once the press release came out from the University of Arizona in January 
1998, anyone was free to hunt on the original BLM area and we enjoyed many 
hunts with many of you who became our good friends.  Meeting all of you who 
did hunt with Jim Kriegh or who met him at the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show 
is what made him the happiest and made the find worthwhile to him.  Jim was 
also pleased to have donated his time for the mapping and scientific 
information his find afforded the meteorite world.


Twink Monrad



______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

No virus found in this incoming message.
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00:22:00



From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Sun Feb  7 23:14:09 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:14:09 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Survival in the first hours of the Cenozoic.
Message-ID: <4B6F8F91.7010602@cox.net>

Robertson D. S., M. C. McKenna, B. T. Owen, S. Hope and  
J. A. Lillegraven, 2004, Survival in the first hours of the
Cenozoic. Geological Society of America Bulletin. vol. 116,
no. 5/6, pp. 760-768.

Abstract at:

http://bulletin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/116/5-6/760

PDF file at:

http://webh01.ua.ac.be/funmorph/raoul/macroevolutie/Robertson2004.pdf

Yours,

Paul H.

P. S. Who Dat ??

We Dat !!! :-) :-)

Saints roll, beat Colts 31-17
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100207/SPORTS03/100207014/Manning-s-magic-ends

New Orleans 31, Indianapolis 17
http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/game/Saints_Colts/2010/02/07



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 23:19:40 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 23:19:40 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mark Bostick?
In-Reply-To: <20100208040514.64D6F1054C@mailwash5.pair.com>
References: <822da19a1002071942y3858070fpc3dd9860dbea6c4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100208040514.64D6F1054C@mailwash5.pair.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002072019w2e0d9106x9b201008a784f9c0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bob, Walt and List,

I bought 2 postcards and some Willamette shale fragments from Mark
about a year ago.  Everything went as planned and I was happy with my
end.  I haven't dealt with him since, nor heard from him.

Best regards,

MikeG


On 2/7/10, Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com> wrote:
> I was the highest bidder on a postcard from him on eBay but I never received
> it, nor got a response from him when I inquired about it (July 2008).  After
> I heard about his personal ordeal, I just wrote it off and hoped his life
> would get back to normalcy.  I haven't heard anything since then.  I hope he
> is well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Dark
> Matter
> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 8:43 PM
> To: Walter Branch
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mark Bostick?
>
> Hi  Walter,
>
> Last I heard was that Mark had to pull out of meteorites to care for
> someone, an elderly parent  or sibling maybe.
>
> Oh, by the way, when you mentioned your three year accident
> anniversary, I thought I'd tell you that before the accident, I bought
> a smooth oriented Sikhote-Alin from your collection. After the
> accident, I thought of sending it back to you, but instead I put it in
> my center desk drawer. Whenever I needed a pen I opened the drawer,
> saw the SA and thought about you and your daughter.
>
> I think we both had and raised our kids while on this List, and I
> remember discussion child rearing with you back at the turn of the
> century. Our daughters are about the same age, and if you and your
> daughter no longer need my daily drawer thoughts, I'd be happy to send
> the SA to your daughter to continue her meteorite collecting.
>
> Best,
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Walter Branch <waltbranch at bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> Can somebody tell me, whatever happened to meteorite collector and dealer
>> Mark Bostick?
>>
>> -Walter Branch
>> _________________
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2671 - Release Date: 02/07/10
> 00:22:00
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 23:49:04 2010
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:49:04 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] 400,749 views, Thank You!
Message-ID: <80659e1a1002072049k58391b2ai5584a82e0f2c1e54@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List,

Over the last ten days or so there have been so many people that
thanked me for putting up meteorite related videos on youtube.

No. Thank you for watching!

Thanks to everyone who (over the last two years) has clicked on one of
my youtube videos! Because of you my videos have climbed to over
400,000 views and 298 subscribers.


In case anyone cares, here are the total views and subscribers for for
both of my channels - MrMeteorite and Meteorfight.


Channel Name:             Views                 Subscribers

MrMeteorite:                 26,439                   21

Meteorfright:                374,310                 277

Total:                          400,749                 298

-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u#p/u


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sun Feb  7 23:58:39 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:58:39 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] 400,749 views, Thank You!
In-Reply-To: <80659e1a1002072049k58391b2ai5584a82e0f2c1e54@mail.gmail.com>
References: <80659e1a1002072049k58391b2ai5584a82e0f2c1e54@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6F99FF.70702@meteoritesusa.com>

Great Job Ruben!

Keep it up.

Regards,
Eric



On 2/7/2010 8:49 PM, Ruben Garcia wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> Over the last ten days or so there have been so many people that
> thanked me for putting up meteorite related videos on youtube.
>
> No. Thank you for watching!
>
> Thanks to everyone who (over the last two years) has clicked on one of
> my youtube videos! Because of you my videos have climbed to over
> 400,000 views and 298 subscribers.
>
>
> In case anyone cares, here are the total views and subscribers for for
> both of my channels - MrMeteorite and Meteorfight.
>
>
> Channel Name:             Views                 Subscribers
>
> MrMeteorite:                 26,439                   21
>
> Meteorfright:                374,310                 277
>
> Total:                          400,749                 298
>
>    


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  8 00:34:56 2010
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:34:56 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Upheaval Dome
References: <mailman.13.1265562033.51050.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
	<160170.3624.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46F5663C4E1544718FD16D3097922499@LintoniusLaptop>

Very interesting, Chuck. Thanks for sharing.
I made a visit to the crater this past summer and found it fascinating.
The Canyonlands National Park staff still refers to the creation of the 
crater
as "under debate", but I was rooting for the impact theory.
So, is it settled then? Sounds like it.
Oh. Nice aerial photos, as well!
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charles O'Dale" <codale0806 at rogers.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 2:14 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Upheaval Dome


> All:
>
> I just updated my web-site to include my report on explorations of the 
> Upheaval Dome in Utah.
>
> http://ottawa-rasc.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Odale-Articles-UpheavalDome
>
> FYI
> Chuck
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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07:22:00



From minador at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  8 01:40:43 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:40:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 4
In-Reply-To: <1755907801-1265590901-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-199222177-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <547132.33956.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<1755907801-1265590901-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-199222177-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <918236.85400.qm@web54507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Safe travells Steve, and all for that matter!? It was a nice show - and great to meet everyone!? I picked up?some great specimens and books.??I'm looking forward to next year (another week or so for the locals though...).

Clear skies,
Mark B.
Vail, AZ



----- Original Message ----
From: "michael at rocksfromspace.org" <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
To: Steve Arnold <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>; meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 6:02:21 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 4

> I got another Sikhote-Alin from Mike Farmer. It is a super nice 200 gram piece. I even have a picture to prove I bought it.<

Prove it Steve! Send me a photo!!
;-)
MJ

Thumbed On My BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: steve arnold <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 07:41:47 
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 4



Good morning list.Well 4 days are in the book and it's time to get ready to wrap up what will probably be my last show for a couple of years.It is raining here on this Sunday morn. Yesterday was another great day. It was sunny and 70 degree's! I met up with a few newbies I had not met with. Linton Rohr and Eric Fisler and his very nice family. Yesterday I bought 3 more new meteorites for the collection. I got another Sikhote-Alin from Mike Farmer. It is a super nice 200 gram piece. I even have a picture to prove I bought it. I got a 7 gram part slice of the new witness fall from Ecuador,DUALE that Mike Farmer found. And finally my biggest purchase of the show, a 32 gram full thick slice of Pena Blanca Springs aubrite I had been looking for a nice piece for years. We pretty much stayed around the inn suites all day till around 5 pm. We then went to dinner and on to the auction. There were about 80 auctions and some nice material but? nothing to blow your
nose at. I got the 2 items I wanted. A 14 gram slice of Park Forest and a 9 gram part slice of Nwa 3161. The really interesting item of the show was how Count Diero toke over the auction for Mike Blood. He showed what it really means to be a " real " auctioneer. Way to go Count! The show ended about 9:50 pm. We said our good byes and went home for the night. For me this was probsbly my best show. I come home with 11 new meteorites and $600. I pretty much stood my my guns,OOOPPPS! Sorry,such a touchy subject these day!!!! :) I bought and traded for what I really wanted. And a BBBBIIIIIIGGGG thanks to Jim Strope. Tomorrow at home I'll have a wrap up from day 5 and start putting pics up on my website. It has really? been a pleasure to meet so many nice people this year at one of the best shows ever.Greeting from rainy tucson and have a great day.




?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From fujmon at mac.com  Mon Feb  8 12:52:21 2010
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:52:21 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2010 Blood auction
Message-ID: <D6B49D3F-8FE8-4E1B-B48E-274EAAD926E4@mac.com>

Aloha mai kakou listoids,

I boogied outta Tucson early Sunday morning, but not before catching my first Tucson Meteorite Auction Saturday night at the VFW.  Awesome action on nice pieces - included some spirited bidding on a big SA shrapnel to end the show...and who'da thunk the Count as an auctioneer?  Let alone a real good one?  Thanks Count, you were awesome.  But thats not to take anything away from the Capt'n as Michael Blood deftly steered the auction through a 10 pm completion.  

During the preceding 5 days, I saw some awesome meteorites (a few of which I procured), and met some righteous people from around the country and the world.  It was great being able to place a face with a name, and to meet in person people with whom I only had a virtual acquaintance.  Thanks Twink for the GB, Rob for convincing me to make the pilgrimage to Tucson, Rob+Mike+Jason for lunch  for Sonora Dogs (glad we didn't trust your GPS and truck 480 mi to get'em), Johnnie French Fry for the wholesalers pass and da inside scoops (take care of that PF and Jana), Mica and Thomas for sharing awesome stories of your expeditions, Said for showing me your stash under the table (Ward got the R chondrite I was considering...dang), Blaine and Blake for a screaming deal on you-know-what, Eduardo for your nice specimens and beautiful mineral gift, Doug hope you enjoy your birthday dio, Steve and Geoff for the great times at the Birthday Bash, Mike F for sharing some cool stories and letting me high grade your stash, Jim S for your killer tee shirt and showing me that bomb of an Imilac, Moritz for that awesome coffee, Matt M for bringing my meteorites that you prepared,  Anne for signing Alain's book, Jim S for letting me hold your Franconia, Dave G for your warm smile and entertaining stories, Dr Jack for your time to share your stories and map (dang I wish I had photographic memory :), Richard K for introducing me to Dolores and your Sara, Greg for your insight into dealing, Erich and Sylvia for your awesome irons (on which a few drops of drool may have accumulated), Count for your entertaining presence (I still have that lod endpiece :), Hans for your warmest smile in meteorites, Dr Svend for your camaraderie over beers at Sky Bar, Rob and Shauna - spread the aloha with the shirts, Ruben mahalo for the bird turd Ash Creek and the offer to hunt, Quinne, Maria and Ryan for braving the cold with me outside Sky Bar, Big Steve for not stepping on me, Bob Haag for meeting your acquaintance, Dana and Keith for the stories and baby frags, Dima and Serge for the deals, Bruno and Carine for showing me that big Fukang slice, Dr Larry and Nancy for finally meeting (I will get that article to you), Mike M for snaking Farmer's saw (snooze you loose), Linton for your funny stories, Mark B for your offer to hunt, Paul H and Jim T for your friendly smiles, new book and offers of support to me in my lapidary endeavors, Arizona Keith for your ever present smile behind the camera, Dr Art E for sharing your stories of how you got started in meteoritics and the Monnig collection, Leigh Ann and Lisa Anne for your upbeat energy, Don H for your hunting stories (say hi to Murray and Simon yeh?), Darryl P for tolerating me, Erik, Jason, Greg, Bob F, John K, and so many others with whom it was a pleasure to meet.  

The memories are etched forever in my gray matter.  See you all next year!

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
(808) 640-9161







From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 13:46:44 2010
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:46:44 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson pictures anyone?
Message-ID: <80659e1a1002081046m2f577e74md12d8ef8ae4fa46f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

The birthday bash was awesome as usual. Geoff and Steve really out did
themselves this time! Thanks guys for the opportunity to hang out with
the best bunch of space rock nuts in the world.

Gary just posted a cool picture of us at the Birthday Bash in Tucson
(on facebook) thanks Gary! If anyone one else has any pictures of me
while there would you send them to me? I'd like to put up a page on my
site, but need photos. One or two of me with the "Hopper The Dog"
Harvey Award would be nice too.

Buy the way my boys thought Hopper getting an award was so cool.
Thanks again Geoff and Steve!


-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  7 23:02:15 2010
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:02:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 5,final day
Message-ID: <167944.66285.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hello from cold and soon to have 10 inches of snow chicago. Well It is hard to believe my tucson show tour is over for this year. There's not much more to report. I went over to the innsuites and said my good byes to all. It was good to see everyone. I bought? 16 grams of franconia irons as a parting shot from larry sloan.So that is tucson for 2010. I hope you liked my reports and tomorrow I;ll start posting my tucson pics on my website.
Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Mon Feb  8 16:32:46 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:32:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 8,
	2010
Message-ID: <1908006005.1702781265664766396.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_8_2010.html



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Mon Feb  8 16:54:53 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:54:53 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bud Light Commercial
Message-ID: <4B70882D.3090905@meteoritesusa.com>

Here's a good one!

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-super-bowl-commercials/09000d5d816449aa/Bud-Light-asteroid-commercial

Enjoy...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA



From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  9 10:54:12 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:54:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - New Material Due To End At Auction
Message-ID: <798817.42520.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,

I have a lot of new material running on eBay right now including some 
planetary material that has not been available for some time.  There are also 
some extremely rare types that could be used to fill those niches in your type 
collection. These auctions are due to end this afternoon.
 
I will continue to revamp my inventory and integrate different items each week as 
they come out of preparation. Please note that I loaded some NWA 869 lots for 
those who need pieces to pass around a classroom, give out as gifts or want some 
for their collections. The pieces are generally smaller as the strewn field 
reaches depletion.
 
All Auctions Can Be Found At This link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ


Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck.

Best Regards,

------------------------------------
Adam 
Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
raremeteorites at yahoo.com


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Tue Feb  9 11:57:25 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:57:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 9,
	2010
Message-ID: <943781133.1828791265734645193.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2010.html

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/FEBRUARY_2010.html




From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Feb  9 14:04:30 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul H.)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:04:30 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] =?utf-8?q?Craterwrongs_=E2=80=93_A_Term_Whose_Ti?=
	=?utf-8?q?me_Has_Come_=3F=3F?=
Message-ID: <20100209140430.QR8V7.533699.imail@eastrmwml34>

Given the ever increasing number of feature, which can be 
demonstrated not to be impact craters, that are being proclaimed 
to be impact craters, maybe it is time to start using the term 
?craterwrong?.

An example of one of these blatant ?craterwrongs? can be seen in the 
You Tube presentation ?End of an Era - Part 1 The Clovis impact? at:
http://www.youtube.com/user/dredawgz1

Another set of craterwrongs can be seen in ?Comets? at;

http://www.atlantia.de/atlantis_english/myth/doom/atlantis_comets.htm

and in the book, "The Secret of Atlantis", by Otto Muck at:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16206238/The-Secret-of-Atlantis-by-Otto-Muck

The amazing aspect of the above craterwrongs is that the oceanic 
trenches and the bottoms of the Arctic Ocean being claimed to be
impact craters even lack any sign of being circular features. It would 
seem that having some sort of circular (or even oval) feature would 
be the minimum, basic starting point for any such claims.

Yours,

Paul H.


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  8 23:28:08 2010
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:28:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson page pics one
Message-ID: <994617.54503.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi list.Just a quick heads up. My first tucson page pic one is up and done. 15 pics for viewing.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From mikewren at gilanet.com  Tue Feb  9 10:18:12 2010
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:18:12 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Fantastic Auctions and Sale Ending Soon...
	Please Check It Out!
Message-ID: <E2E9159E-56F3-42A1-B859-CD51166A64DD@gilanet.com>

Hello,


** Last Minute Notice...I added some new, 3 day auctions amongst my  
others....


Check them out.... some great deals...

(THERE ARE SOME NICE PIECES LISTED)

SEE ALL AUCTIONS AT ONCE!
http://shop.ebay.com:80/meteorite-collector/m.html?LH_Auction=1&_trksid=p3911.c0.m301

SEE ALL ITEMS ON SALE IN MY STORE!
http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history




Trying to raise some quick cash to pull a new meteorite out of the  
field. So, I am going to offer some super low prices on some well  
watched and special meteorites....

These are special for list members only, please contact me for payment  
information.  I do NOT need to sell all of these, just one, maybe two.  
I will end the sale early, if what I need is achieved.


$5,000.00 firm ... takes this beauty home.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190369181112

$1,900.00 firm.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190369451556

$10,000.00 firm ... WOW!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200366353657

$9000.00 ... never thought I would offer this one so low....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190368543872

$7500.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200433332013

$5000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200391143266

$5500.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200356012338

$5000.00 ... You will not find a nicer one for the price ..NOT ANYWHERE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220490808451

$14500.00 ..... heck you know this one is a steal.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200432512052


Check them out.... some great deals...

SEE ALL AUCTIONS AT ONCE!
http://shop.ebay.com:80/meteorite-collector/m.html?LH_Auction=1&_trksid=p3911.c0.m301

SEE ALL ITEMS ON SALE IN MY STORE!
http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history





Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 18:01:45 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:01:45 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2005 - No Falls? Any promising candidates in
	hiding?
Message-ID: <e51421551002091501y15f80bbdn4e9fa806579389a0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List,

According to all authoritative sources, there were no officially
recognized meteorite falls in the year 2005.  2005 is the only year in
the young 21st century not to have a recognized fall.  So, were there
ever any promising reports of falls from that year that were never
followed-up on, or were overlooked in some way?  Or perhaps there was
a fall, but is not available to the public or available for
classification?

Will 2005 go down as a "goose egg" year in the annals of meteorite falls?

I know this sounds like a silly topic to bring up in the year 2010,
but looking back on the numbers since 2000, 2005 stands out like an
anomaly.

Best regards and happy huntings,

MikeG


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net  Tue Feb  9 19:18:50 2010
From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:18:50 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,
	2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
Message-ID: <C351FC0306F4432FA5E0CE765D20E13C@DFZN8X81>


Subject: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion

> Hello Jeff K., Michael J., Zelimir and List,
> 
> I am wondering if this blue metallic inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee
> might be one of these hibonites that Zelimir showed us and that Jeff
> Grosman identified for us.
> 
> This made me think of the MUCH-1 and "Blue Angel" inclusions in Murchison
> (both of them hibonite-bearing aggregates).
> 
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2010.html
> 
> Jeff, sincere congrats on such a fine Buzzard Coulee!
> 
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Bernd
>


From geohiggins at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  9 19:17:14 2010
From: geohiggins at yahoo.com (John higgins)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:17:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- .99 Auctions ending in a few hours,
	and tomorrow  FREE SHIPPING!
Message-ID: <283946.11891.qm@web63203.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hello List, 

Auctions ending in a few hours and tomorrow, you can see them in Outer Space Rocks Ebay Store 
http://stores.ebay.com/Outer-Space-Rocks

 AUCTIONS STARTED @.99 + FREE SHIPPING

Thank You,
Have a Great Day,

John Higgins
IMCA # 9822

Reach For The Stars!



      


From ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com  Tue Feb  9 19:54:35 2010
From: ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com (Matson, Robert D.)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:54:35 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2005 - No Falls? Any promising candidates
	inhiding?
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002091501y15f80bbdn4e9fa806579389a0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e51421551002091501y15f80bbdn4e9fa806579389a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702BF2BD1@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Hi Mike,

There were a number of bright fireballs in 2005, just nothing recovered
from
any of them. Among the most notable:

March 12, 2005 ~7:40pm PST - Oregon/Washington area
April 24, 2005 ~7:45pm EDT - New England area
September 29, 2005 ~7 pm EDT - Florida
October 31, 2005 6:30 pm EST - Maryland/Virginia
October 31, 2005 9:15 pm EST - Virginia/North Carolina
November 14, 2005 ~8:15 pm CST - Texas

--Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:02 PM
To: Meteorite List
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2005 - No Falls? Any promising candidates
inhiding?

Hi List,

According to all authoritative sources, there were no officially
recognized meteorite falls in the year 2005.  2005 is the only year in
the young 21st century not to have a recognized fall.  So, were there
ever any promising reports of falls from that year that were never
followed-up on, or were overlooked in some way?  Or perhaps there was a
fall, but is not available to the public or available for
classification?

Will 2005 go down as a "goose egg" year in the annals of meteorite
falls?

I know this sounds like a silly topic to bring up in the year 2010, but
looking back on the numbers since 2000, 2005 stands out like an anomaly.

Best regards and happy huntings,

MikeG


From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Tue Feb  9 22:15:23 2010
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:15:23 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Martin Cubes"  Antiqued wood scale cubes   Ad
Message-ID: <1ec1f.7d7dcfe0.38a37ecb@aol.com>

Hi list,  As I have mentioned to the list  previously, I have stared making 
wood scale/orientation cubes.

There are  a couple versions of these things.  One is the new cube with a 
simple oil  finish.  The other is an old wood finished with several layers of 
toasted  and striped Danish Oil and varnish then tumbled in a brass tumbler 
(No grit)  just long enough to wear edges.

I have a habit of coming up with names  for things like "Perfect Chondrule" 
 or "Ugly Black Stuff" and a name has  emerged for these antique style 
cubes.

I thought some of you might like  the story.

After making some simple wood cubes I showed pictures to Jeff  Kuyken and 
it was his idea that these would be good for use with historic  meteorites.  
Well, historic meteorites naturally made me think of Martin  Horejsi.  In 
fact for most of us, when historic meteorites are mentioned we  think of 
Martin!  He is an expert in historic meteorites and has been  witting articles on 
them in Meteorite Magazine and Meteorite Times for  years.

We also are friends.   We have cut and polished more  than a few of his 
treasures while talking about rocks.  His knowledge is  amazing and what's 
better he has interesting stories about nearly all of their  histories.  He 
wrote a "From the Strewnfields" article about one of those  days in the August 
2006 issue of Meteorite Magazine.

I have mentioned  before how meticulous Martin is.  His style is total 
precision while mine  is quick.  It was hilarious to watch us get ready to cut 
one of his rare  historic stones.  I think my "grab and cut" approach drove 
him mad.   He once muttered something to the effect of "That might be OK for 
an sun  scorched NWA but not this rock"

Anyway,  I tried to create some  thing cool.  I wanted to come up with a 
cube that even Martin would put  next to his Ensisheim. 

As I worked on them, such as when I went on  one of my frequent trips down 
to the work shop to check on the batch in the  toaster oven or some other 
thing, I told my wife "I'm going down to check on the  Martin cubes"

That name has stuck and they are now known as Martin  Cubes.  

They were a pain to make so I am not sure if I will produce  an other 
batch.  If I hear Martin has placed one in his showcase next to  his Ensisheim 
slice, I will know I did a good job!



I have  ordinary wood cubes I am including with my eBay sales such as this 
one.  

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260550364645&ssPageName=S
TRK:MESELX:IT

These  are clean and fresh, made of new pine.  They still go with the 
historic  finds but they have just a simple linseed oil finish.  So if you see my 
 listings you will know there is a difference.



This is not really  an ad but I am linking an auction so it is in the 
subject line.  



From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Tue Feb  9 23:32:59 2010
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:32:59 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] [Fwd: Fw: Meteor]
Message-ID: <f8916c1338d797f2d1658a4a9cbb104e.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Here is the second.

I did not see it. :(

Larry Lebofsky


---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Fw: Meteor
From:    "Larry & Twink Monrad" <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
Date:    Tue, February 9, 2010 8:48 pm
To:      "Larry Lebofsky" <lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Larry, is there anyone you should tell about this?  Jeff saw the
Whetstone one too, he lives in Oro Valley.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Roby" <jroby at wbhsi.net>
To: "Monrad Larry" <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:38 PM
Subject: Meteor


Larry,

Please tell Twink I think I did it again.  At 8:20 PM tonight, what looked
like a meteor went across our family room window in the western facing sky.
Very bright and perhaps what looked like 2 or 3 sections.

Jeff

###############
Jeff Roby
jroby at wbhsi.net
520-825-2935
520-665-9364 Jeff Cell
520-665-9394 Karin Cell




From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Wed Feb 10 00:19:20 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:19:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 10,
	2010
Message-ID: <256582054.1961801265779159997.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_10_2010.html

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/FEBRUARY_2010.html



From arizonakeith at cox.net  Wed Feb 10 02:06:22 2010
From: arizonakeith at cox.net (Arizona Keith)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:06:22 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Photos, few more added
Message-ID: <2DAD7A1F1DCE46E1A1AD09B578CF08E6@Keith2>

Hello List

Added a few more general photos from around the Tucson Show,  and a new one 
of the mother Fukang slice and the Fukang main mass.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonaviking/sets/72157623154261599/

Enjoy

AzKeith 



From info at meteorites.com.au  Wed Feb 10 02:44:09 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:44:09 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2005 - No Falls? Any promising
	candidatesinhiding?
In-Reply-To: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702BF2BD1@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
References: <e51421551002091501y15f80bbdn4e9fa806579389a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702BF2BD1@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
Message-ID: <961C480C0E834BC6A70E048713DE6261@JeffPC>

Hi Rob,

There was also the massive fireball over Western Australia in December 2005 
which made international news. There was another one also caught by the 
Japanese network in March 2005. Both are viewable on my Meteorite Films 
page.

http://www.meteorites.com.au/films/

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matson, Robert D." <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>; "Meteorite List" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 2005 - No Falls? Any promising 
candidatesinhiding?


> Hi Mike,
>
> There were a number of bright fireballs in 2005, just nothing recovered
> from
> any of them. Among the most notable:
>
> March 12, 2005 ~7:40pm PST - Oregon/Washington area
> April 24, 2005 ~7:45pm EDT - New England area
> September 29, 2005 ~7 pm EDT - Florida
> October 31, 2005 6:30 pm EST - Maryland/Virginia
> October 31, 2005 9:15 pm EST - Virginia/North Carolina
> November 14, 2005 ~8:15 pm CST - Texas
>
> --Rob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> Galactic Stone & Ironworks
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:02 PM
> To: Meteorite List
> Subject: [meteorite-list] 2005 - No Falls? Any promising candidates
> inhiding?
>
> Hi List,
>
> According to all authoritative sources, there were no officially
> recognized meteorite falls in the year 2005.  2005 is the only year in
> the young 21st century not to have a recognized fall.  So, were there
> ever any promising reports of falls from that year that were never
> followed-up on, or were overlooked in some way?  Or perhaps there was a
> fall, but is not available to the public or available for
> classification?
>
> Will 2005 go down as a "goose egg" year in the annals of meteorite
> falls?
>
> I know this sounds like a silly topic to bring up in the year 2010, but
> looking back on the numbers since 2000, 2005 stands out like an anomaly.
>
> Best regards and happy huntings,
>
> MikeG
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From info at meteorites.com.au  Wed Feb 10 02:38:08 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:38:08 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,
	2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
In-Reply-To: <C351FC0306F4432FA5E0CE765D20E13C@DFZN8X81>
References: <C351FC0306F4432FA5E0CE765D20E13C@DFZN8X81>
Message-ID: <0F45A549CCA74679972B426F8E8FD8BB@JeffPC>

Hi Bernd & all,

Maybe it's possible but it's about 150X bigger than my Isheyevo 
Hibonite-bearing CAI or chondrule. Probably too big? Actually, I wish you 
could see this feature in person Bernd. The best way I can describe it is to 
say that is looks just like the iridescent blue colour of a Peacocks 
feather.

I was sent a pic off list by another collector who has a similar smaller 
feature on a very fresh NWA (~L3, W0/1). There is a brassy yellow one 
(troilite?) with a smaller blue one like mine next to it. Both look like 
melted metal on the surface. I know Mark had one other much larger Buzzard 
with a similar thing too. Has anyone else seen this or know what could cause 
it?

Cheers,

Jeff

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry & Twink Monrad" <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:18 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue 
Inclusion


>
> Subject: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>
>> Hello Jeff K., Michael J., Zelimir and List,
>>
>> I am wondering if this blue metallic inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee
>> might be one of these hibonites that Zelimir showed us and that Jeff
>> Grosman identified for us.
>>
>> This made me think of the MUCH-1 and "Blue Angel" inclusions in Murchison
>> (both of them hibonite-bearing aggregates).
>>
>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2010.html
>>
>> Jeff, sincere congrats on such a fine Buzzard Coulee!
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Bernd
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From abudka at nycap.rr.com  Wed Feb 10 10:17:57 2010
From: abudka at nycap.rr.com (abudka at nycap.rr.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:17:57 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel and Iron Meteorites
Message-ID: <20100210151757.19P3Y.505600.root@cdptpa-web07-z01>

In ?Meteorite Men? episode 3, ?Tucson Ring Mystery, Southern Arizona,? Steve and Geoff have 5 small potential nickel-iron meteorites analyzed.  Nickel is not found in 4 specimens and they are tagged ?meteor wrongs.?  The presence of nickel is found in the 5th specimen.  Therefore, it is a ?meteor right.?

Which got me to thinking: Are nickel-less iron meteorites possible?

Many texts cite 5 weight percent nickel as the lower limit in iron meteorites.  Among other properties, nickel contributes corrosion resistance to terrestrial iron materials ? and to iron meteorites.  Perhaps iron meteorites HAVE arrived with less nickel, but due to terrestrial oxidation, are now piles of rust (hematite, magnetite).  How would we know?

Timely and thorough analysis of at least two fresh nickel-iron falls would help to answer this question.

And, yes, Steve and Geoff, I held my breath as the result of each analysis was announced.

Phyllis Budka
meteormetals.com



From minador at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 10 10:47:26 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:47:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: brilliant bolide near Tucson?!
Message-ID: <56038.38704.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

This didn't go through in HTML.? I dislike how Yahoo mail goes in and out of plain text depending on type of message you are trying to forward.... 

Anyways, I'm hoping this will be the 3rd AZ fall!!


----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Mark Bowling <minador at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Bolide_Chasers at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 8:32:16 AM
Subject: Fw: brilliant bolide near Tucson?!


More sightings from last night...? In private correspondance, Wayne indicated that another TAAA couple were west of Tucson and saw it (west of them), so it may have fallen on the Rez...? Hopefully not.

Clear skies (and go get them!).

Mark B.
Vail, AZ



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Wayne (aka Mr. Galaxy) <mrgalaxy at juno.com>
To: haclist at yahoogroups.com
Cc: az-observing at freelists.org; tucsonastronomy at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 9:12:53 PM
Subject: [TAAA] brilliant bolide near Tucson?!
? 

15480 Empire Rd.
Benson, AZ 85602
I sure hope some of the meteor cameras were set up and observing at about 8:25pm tonight (Tuesday), especially in the Tucson area. 
My wife, Arlene, and I were both driving our own cars home after meeting for dinner and as we turned west onto our frontage road we both saw a spectacular bolide going from around Aries to west of Cassiopeia in a NNW direction about 45 degrees up in the sky and traveling for about 45 degrees. It had a nice orange head with greenish-white fragments falling off it. The skies were mostly clear and the fireball appeared to be about the brightness of Venus, about -4 magnitude. It moved fairly slowly and lasted for several seconds, but I couldn't detect any trail. Arlene described it as appearing to fall out of the sky. We both saw it independently and couldn't talk about it until we got home about 5 minutes after the event, but our basic observations agree surprisingly well. 
We both strongly suspect, if particles of it fell to the ground, they would have fallen in the Marsh Station area near the base of the Rincon Mts. It would be neat to hear if anybody else can triangulate from our information. 
I don't know why it is, but I always see the best meteors when I'm driving...

Clear skies, 
Wayne (aka Mr. Galaxy)


From jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk  Wed Feb 10 11:19:09 2010
From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk (jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:19:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ireland fireball---report from the Emerald Isle
Message-ID: <16024790.125981265818749800.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>

Greetings Listoids
           Still nothing definitive on this fireball from last 
Wednesday.Not a single noise report.The farmer who reported it landing 
in his field in Crimlin,County Cavan has been strangely silent---fancy 
that.Reports are now suggesting it landed in Donegal.
      Anyway Rob Elliot has offered a ?10,000 reward according to the 
Belfast Telegraph 2 days ago.The article can be found here 

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/up-to-pound10000-
for-p.htmls-of-fireball-that-blazed-over-ireland-14671850.html

or at a tr.immed URL here http://tr.im/NCpT

yesterday there was a cartoon in the same paper

You can view it here 

http://www.emeraldislemeteorites.com/large-images/reward.jpg

hehe

Jim




From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 10 13:58:36 2010
From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:58:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,
	2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
Message-ID: <311815.13710.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Jeff, Bernd and List,

? This may be way off, but I'm wondering if the melting and subsequent splashing/spraying of something like your "blue inclusion" could have caused the "silvery blue streaking" on the surface of some of the Ash Creek (West) meteorites that were asked about during previous posts to the List? The streaks on my primary specimen with the markings, and others that I have seen, are not as DARK vivid blue as your inclusion appears to be, but the streaks do have somewhat of an iridescent look to them as well.? 

? Anyone have any thoughts on this? Like I said, I may be way off, but hopefully some member(s) will be able to shed more light on the topic, as we approach the one year anniversary of the fall. 

? Sincerely,
? Robert Woolard? ? ? ? 

--- On Wed, 2/10/10, Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au> wrote:

> From: Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Cc: "Bernd Pauli" <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 1:38 AM
> Hi Bernd & all,
> 
> Maybe it's possible but it's about 150X bigger than my
> Isheyevo Hibonite-bearing CAI or chondrule. Probably too
> big? Actually, I wish you could see this feature in person
> Bernd. The best way I can describe it is to say that is
> looks just like the iridescent blue colour of a Peacocks
> feather.
> 
> I was sent a pic off list by another collector who has a
> similar smaller feature on a very fresh NWA (~L3, W0/1).
> There is a brassy yellow one (troilite?) with a smaller blue
> one like mine next to it. Both look like melted metal on the
> surface. I know Mark had one other much larger Buzzard with
> a similar thing too. Has anyone else seen this or know what
> could cause it?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry & Twink
> Monrad" <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:18 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,2010
> Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
> 
> 
> > 
> > Subject: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue
> Inclusion
> > 
> >> Hello Jeff K., Michael J., Zelimir and List,
> >> 
> >> I am wondering if this blue metallic inclusion in
> Jeff's Buzzard Coulee
> >> might be one of these hibonites that Zelimir
> showed us and that Jeff
> >> Grosman identified for us.
> >> 
> >> This made me think of the MUCH-1 and "Blue Angel"
> inclusions in Murchison
> >> (both of them hibonite-bearing aggregates).
> >> 
> >> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2010.html
> >> 
> >> Jeff, sincere congrats on such a fine Buzzard
> Coulee!
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Best wishes,
> >> 
> >> Bernd
> >> 
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> > 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 










      


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 10 14:09:48 2010
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:09:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] ISO - used Meteorite books
Message-ID: <55387.19493.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi to all!

I am looking for used but usable copies of a few of the more notable meteorite books. 
I would also like to get a copy of "a comet strikes the earth" the meteorite does not need to be attached.
I am wanting to have a few books for use by visitors to the museum once it opens.
Thanks,

Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites


      


From minador at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 10 15:00:25 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:00:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,
	2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
In-Reply-To: <311815.13710.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <311815.13710.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <810692.96332.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

It reminds me of some iridescent colorings I've seen on some weathered?iron oxides.? I've seen it in rock specimens which were weathering out of veins which contain gold, various Fe oxides and Mn oxides.? I can't think of any mineral names (maybe Goethite).? A geologist would know - I can't imagine why it wouldn't be seen in meteorites - like when a piece of iron is coming through the crust.? I can't say for sure, but I bet I've seen it in weathered Holbrook meteorites or SAU001.? That's no guarantee it is the same stuff, but it's similar in appearance.? I hope that helps.

But for sure it definitely doesn't look like the blue chondrule that was shared the other day if that's the inclusion you're talking about.? It's very interesting for sure!

Mark B.
Vail, AZ



----- Original Message ----
From: Robert Woolard <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>
To: info at meteorites.com.au
Cc: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 11:58:36 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion

Jeff, Bernd and List,

? This may be way off, but I'm wondering if the melting and subsequent splashing/spraying of something like your "blue inclusion" could have caused the "silvery blue streaking" on the surface of some of the Ash Creek (West) meteorites that were asked about during previous posts to the List? The streaks on my primary specimen with the markings, and others that I have seen, are not as DARK vivid blue as your inclusion appears to be, but the streaks do have somewhat of an iridescent look to them as well.? 

? Anyone have any thoughts on this? Like I said, I may be way off, but hopefully some member(s) will be able to shed more light on the topic, as we approach the one year anniversary of the fall. 

? Sincerely,
? Robert Woolard? ? ? ? 

--- On Wed, 2/10/10, Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au> wrote:

> From: Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Cc: "Bernd Pauli" <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 1:38 AM
> Hi Bernd & all,
> 
> Maybe it's possible but it's about 150X bigger than my
> Isheyevo Hibonite-bearing CAI or chondrule. Probably too
> big? Actually, I wish you could see this feature in person
> Bernd. The best way I can describe it is to say that is
> looks just like the iridescent blue colour of a Peacocks
> feather.
> 
> I was sent a pic off list by another collector who has a
> similar smaller feature on a very fresh NWA (~L3, W0/1).
> There is a brassy yellow one (troilite?) with a smaller blue
> one like mine next to it. Both look like melted metal on the
> surface. I know Mark had one other much larger Buzzard with
> a similar thing too. Has anyone else seen this or know what
> could cause it?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry & Twink
> Monrad" <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:18 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,2010
> Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
> 
> 
> > 
> > Subject: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue
> Inclusion
> > 
> >> Hello Jeff K., Michael J., Zelimir and List,
> >> 
> >> I am wondering if this blue metallic inclusion in
> Jeff's Buzzard Coulee
> >> might be one of these hibonites that Zelimir
> showed us and that Jeff
> >> Grosman identified for us.
> >> 
> >> This made me think of the MUCH-1 and "Blue Angel"
> inclusions in Murchison
> >> (both of them hibonite-bearing aggregates).
> >> 
> >> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2010.html
> >> 
> >> Jeff, sincere congrats on such a fine Buzzard
> Coulee!
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Best wishes,
> >> 
> >> Bernd
> >> 
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> > 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 










? ? ? 
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From photophlow at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 10 15:05:46 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:05:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 The Universe Video
Message-ID: <51180.69945.qm@web113601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Darren and List,
?
You had said about a week ago you are?still looking for the Naked Science video on 2008 TC3 meteorite ( which I might add, I would like to get my hands on some ) . I think I might have found that video but its not from Naked Science it is from The Universe series show.The episode is about deadly stuff that falls from space which begins with the ?2008 TC3 meteorite fall. Here is a link and enjoy and see if that is what your looking for and Listers, enjoy as well.
?
Shawn?Alan
?
http://www.sendspace.com/file/4z34u2


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Feb 10 18:00:59 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:00:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - February 10, 2010
Message-ID: <201002102300.o1AN0xXK026457@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
February 10, 2010

o Debris Flows on Mars 
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007033_1445

o Exhumed Layers Near the Nili Fossae
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_002176_2025

o Slope Streaks in Terra Sabaea
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001808_1875
 
o Eroding Layers in an Impact Crater
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001503_1645

o Layers in Olympus Mons Basal Scarp
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001432_2015


All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.



From ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com  Wed Feb 10 18:24:58 2010
From: ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com (Matson, Robert D.)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:24:58 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass-coated Campos?
In-Reply-To: <16024790.125981265818749800.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>
References: <16024790.125981265818749800.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>
Message-ID: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702BF2FEA@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Possible product to try on meteorites in conjunction with "Rusty"
Mason's
meteorite preservation technique?

http://pda.physorg.com/_news184310039.html

--Rob



From whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 10 18:48:26 2010
From: whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com (Dave Myers)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:48:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 The Universe Video
In-Reply-To: <51180.69945.qm@web113601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <822649.40597.qm@web110112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Shawn,

That is one of the best videos I ever seen!

Thanks so muching for sharing!

Dave Myers

--- On Wed, 2/10/10, Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 The Universe Video
> To: cynapse at charter.net
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 8:05 PM
> Darren and List,
> ?
> You had said about a week ago you are?still looking for
> the Naked Science video on 2008 TC3 meteorite ( which I
> might add, I would like to get my hands on some ) . I think
> I might have found that video but its not from Naked Science
> it is from The Universe series show.The episode is about
> deadly stuff that falls from space which begins with the
> ?2008 TC3 meteorite fall. Here is a link and enjoy and see
> if that is what your looking for and Listers, enjoy as
> well.
> ?
> Shawn?Alan
> ?
> http://www.sendspace.com/file/4z34u2
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 10 18:50:47 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:50:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 The Universe Video
In-Reply-To: <51180.69945.qm@web113601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <788635.69116.qm@web113603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Shawn,

That program is a History Channel production from "The Universe" series. It's titled "It Fell From Space" and is a general program about meteorites. 2008 TC3 is just cursory.

I believe the program Darren is referring to is a National Geographic Channel program from their Naked Science series. The name of that is "Countdown to Impact" and is about 2008 TC3 / Almahata Sitta exclusively.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Wed, 2/10/10, Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 The Universe Video
> To: cynapse at charter.net
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 1:05 PM
> Darren and List,
> ?
> You had said about a week ago you are?still looking for
> the Naked Science video on 2008 TC3 meteorite ( which I
> might add, I would like to get my hands on some ) . I think
> I might have found that video but its not from Naked Science
> it is from The Universe series show.The episode is about
> deadly stuff that falls from space which begins with the
> ?2008 TC3 meteorite fall. Here is a link and enjoy and see
> if that is what your looking for and Listers, enjoy as
> well.
> ?
> Shawn?Alan
> ?
> http://www.sendspace.com/file/4z34u2
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      



From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Feb 10 21:21:54 2010
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:21:54 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,
 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
In-Reply-To: <0F45A549CCA74679972B426F8E8FD8BB@JeffPC>
References: <C351FC0306F4432FA5E0CE765D20E13C@DFZN8X81>
	<0F45A549CCA74679972B426F8E8FD8BB@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <0CD13009-46D5-4C26-BC9E-700B139C60BA@mac.com>

Aloha Jeff, Bernd, et al,

I am at a conference now and have limited access to email, but was informed of this interesting anomalous inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee meteorite.  My friend and partner of the NWA (~L3, W0/1) has identified a similar feature in one of my slices.  Please have a look at my 20.11g full slice to see this blue feature in the middle of a troilite inclusion:

http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/614g/_20.11b.jpg

Because this is from the interior of the meteorite, it should dispel any theory of fusion reaction during ablative flight.  

gary

On Feb 9, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Jeff Kuyken wrote:

> Hi Bernd & all,
> 
> Maybe it's possible but it's about 150X bigger than my Isheyevo Hibonite-bearing CAI or chondrule. Probably too big? Actually, I wish you could see this feature in person Bernd. The best way I can describe it is to say that is looks just like the iridescent blue colour of a Peacocks feather.
> 
> I was sent a pic off list by another collector who has a similar smaller feature on a very fresh NWA (~L3, W0/1). There is a brassy yellow one (troilite?) with a smaller blue one like mine next to it. Both look like melted metal on the surface. I know Mark had one other much larger Buzzard with a similar thing too. Has anyone else seen this or know what could cause it?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry & Twink Monrad" <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:18 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
> 
> 
>> 
>> Subject: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>> 
>>> Hello Jeff K., Michael J., Zelimir and List,
>>> 
>>> I am wondering if this blue metallic inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee
>>> might be one of these hibonites that Zelimir showed us and that Jeff
>>> Grosman identified for us.
>>> 
>>> This made me think of the MUCH-1 and "Blue Angel" inclusions in Murchison
>>> (both of them hibonite-bearing aggregates).
>>> 
>>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2010.html
>>> 
>>> Jeff, sincere congrats on such a fine Buzzard Coulee!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Bernd
>>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
(808) 640-9161







From edeckert at triad.rr.com  Wed Feb 10 22:15:07 2010
From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:15:07 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass-coated Campos?
References: <16024790.125981265818749800.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>
	<7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702BF2FEA@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
Message-ID: <005d01caaac8$69f426f0$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain>

Sounds like an interesting product.  But the article indicates the silicon 
dioxide coating is "breathable," which makes me wonder how effective it 
would be in moist climates.

They claim that seeds coated with "Liquid Glass" germinated faster than 
seeds that were not coated.  For seeds to germinate, I have always 
understood that moisture (water) was required.  If moisture can penetrate 
the coating to germinate seeds, I would think that moisture could get 
through to the meteorite as well.

But then, I suppose it could provide additional protection if applied after 
properly treating the meteorite with Bill Mason's products.

Hopefully this becomes available soon and can be tested.  I would caution 
anyone using it to exercise care not to breathe in the vapors.  You would 
need to wear an appropriate respirator mask, and have adequate ventilation. 
Breathing silicon dioxide dust causes a condition called "silicosis of the 
lung."  It is cumulative and incurable, ultimately leading to death - except 
I suppose if a lung transplant might be a possibility.  I know of this 
condition very well as a friend's husband died from silicosis.

Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matson, Robert D." <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 6:24 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass-coated Campos?


> Possible product to try on meteorites in conjunction with "Rusty"
> Mason's
> meteorite preservation technique?
>
> http://pda.physorg.com/_news184310039.html
>
> --Rob
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
> Database version: 6.14320
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ 





E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
Database version: 6.14330
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/


From minador at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 11 00:09:15 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:09:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,
	2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
In-Reply-To: <0CD13009-46D5-4C26-BC9E-700B139C60BA@mac.com>
References: <C351FC0306F4432FA5E0CE765D20E13C@DFZN8X81>
	<0F45A549CCA74679972B426F8E8FD8BB@JeffPC>
	<0CD13009-46D5-4C26-BC9E-700B139C60BA@mac.com>
Message-ID: <887528.39860.qm@web54507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I must have been mistaken, I thought somebody was talking about coloration on crust and not interior features....

Mark B.
Vail, AZ



----- Original Message ----
From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com>
To: Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au>
Cc: Bernd Pauli <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 7:21:54 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion

Aloha Jeff, Bernd, et al,

I am at a conference now and have limited access to email, but was informed of this interesting anomalous inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee meteorite.? My friend and partner of the NWA (~L3, W0/1) has identified a similar feature in one of my slices.? Please have a look at my 20.11g full slice to see this blue feature in the middle of a troilite inclusion:

http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/614g/_20.11b.jpg

Because this is from the interior of the meteorite, it should dispel any theory of fusion reaction during ablative flight.? 

gary

On Feb 9, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Jeff Kuyken wrote:

> Hi Bernd & all,
> 
> Maybe it's possible but it's about 150X bigger than my Isheyevo Hibonite-bearing CAI or chondrule. Probably too big? Actually, I wish you could see this feature in person Bernd. The best way I can describe it is to say that is looks just like the iridescent blue colour of a Peacocks feather.
> 
> I was sent a pic off list by another collector who has a similar smaller feature on a very fresh NWA (~L3, W0/1). There is a brassy yellow one (troilite?) with a smaller blue one like mine next to it. Both look like melted metal on the surface. I know Mark had one other much larger Buzzard with a similar thing too. Has anyone else seen this or know what could cause it?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry & Twink Monrad" <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:18 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
> 
> 
>> 
>> Subject: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>> 
>>> Hello Jeff K., Michael J., Zelimir and List,
>>> 
>>> I am wondering if this blue metallic inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee
>>> might be one of these hibonites that Zelimir showed us and that Jeff
>>> Grosman identified for us.
>>> 
>>> This made me think of the MUCH-1 and "Blue Angel" inclusions in Murchison
>>> (both of them hibonite-bearing aggregates).
>>> 
>>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2010.html
>>> 
>>> Jeff, sincere congrats on such a fine Buzzard Coulee!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Bernd
>>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html? 
(808) 640-9161





______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From pict at pict.co.uk  Thu Feb 11 02:46:42 2010
From: pict at pict.co.uk (John Hendry)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:46:42 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,
	2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
In-Reply-To: <0CD13009-46D5-4C26-BC9E-700B139C60BA@mac.com>
References: <C351FC0306F4432FA5E0CE765D20E13C@DFZN8X81>	<0F45A549CCA74679972B426F8E8FD8BB@JeffPC>
	<0CD13009-46D5-4C26-BC9E-700B139C60BA@mac.com>
Message-ID: <001001caaaee$5add2060$10976120$@co.uk>

Bornite?

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Fujihara
Sent: February-11-10 4:22 AM
To: Jeff Kuyken
Cc: Bernd Pauli; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee
Blue Inclusion

Aloha Jeff, Bernd, et al,

I am at a conference now and have limited access to email, but was informed
of this interesting anomalous inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee meteorite.
My friend and partner of the NWA (~L3, W0/1) has identified a similar
feature in one of my slices.  Please have a look at my 20.11g full slice to
see this blue feature in the middle of a troilite inclusion:

http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/614g/_20.11b.jpg

Because this is from the interior of the meteorite, it should dispel any
theory of fusion reaction during ablative flight.  

gary




From steve.dunklee at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 11 03:07:24 2010
From: steve.dunklee at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:07:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass-coated Campos?
In-Reply-To: <005d01caaac8$69f426f0$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain>
Message-ID: <795529.61318.qm@web113903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi all!
Ed beat me to the silicosis problem. You can buy liquid glass at most any pharmacy in the States. coating metorites with liquid glass may be the same as putting them in a wet plastic bag. the chemicals needed to make it liquid are highly corrosive. If you follow careful directions you can use it to seal leaks in engine blocks, radiators and heater cores and it has many other uses, but I doubt meterorite preservation is one of them. It holds water which causes bacteria and other micro organisms to explode. holding water on a meteorite only causes rust. so as the liquid glass disolves and recrystalzes under the rust you end up with something like Lawrencite disease. with the only way to remove the liquid glass by perchloric acid. I may be wrong on this one  it may actually work but if they recomend flushing your radiator after the leak is sealed to prevent it from locking everything up from rust. I dont think it will work to preserve meteorites.

cheers
Steve

--- On Thu, 2/11/10, Ed Deckert <edeckert at triad.rr.com> wrote:

> From: Ed Deckert <edeckert at triad.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Glass-coated Campos?
> To: "Matson, Robert D." <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 3:15 AM
> Sounds like an interesting
> product.? But the article indicates the silicon dioxide
> coating is "breathable," which makes me wonder how effective
> it would be in moist climates.
> 
> They claim that seeds coated with "Liquid Glass" germinated
> faster than seeds that were not coated.? For seeds to
> germinate, I have always understood that moisture (water)
> was required.? If moisture can penetrate the coating to
> germinate seeds, I would think that moisture could get
> through to the meteorite as well.
> 
> But then, I suppose it could provide additional protection
> if applied after properly treating the meteorite with Bill
> Mason's products.
> 
> Hopefully this becomes available soon and can be
> tested.? I would caution anyone using it to exercise
> care not to breathe in the vapors.? You would need to
> wear an appropriate respirator mask, and have adequate
> ventilation. Breathing silicon dioxide dust causes a
> condition called "silicosis of the lung."? It is
> cumulative and incurable, ultimately leading to death -
> except I suppose if a lung transplant might be a
> possibility.? I know of this condition very well as a
> friend's husband died from silicosis.
> 
> Ed
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matson, Robert D."
> <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 6:24 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass-coated Campos?
> 
> 
> > Possible product to try on meteorites in conjunction
> with "Rusty"
> > Mason's
> > meteorite preservation technique?
> > 
> > http://pda.physorg.com/_news184310039.html
> > 
> > --Rob
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
> > Database version: 6.14320
> > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
> Database version: 6.14330
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From steve.dunklee at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 11 03:34:14 2010
From: steve.dunklee at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:34:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass-coated Campos?
In-Reply-To: <795529.61318.qm@web113903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <953608.85939.qm@web113917.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I forgot to add, seeds germinate faster because it not only holds water but acts like a dessicant and draws moisture from the air. the higher water content speeds up germination. If you want your meteorites to hold more water coat them with liquid glass.
Have a great day
Steve

--- On Thu, 2/11/10, Steve Dunklee <steve.dunklee at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Steve Dunklee <steve.dunklee at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Glass-coated Campos?
> To: " Robert D.Matson" <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Ed Deckert" <edeckert at triad.rr.com>
> Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 8:07 AM
> Hi all!
> Ed beat me to the silicosis problem. You can buy liquid
> glass at most any pharmacy in the States. coating metorites
> with liquid glass may be the same as putting them in a wet
> plastic bag. the chemicals needed to make it liquid are
> highly corrosive. If you follow careful directions you can
> use it to seal leaks in engine blocks, radiators and heater
> cores and it has many other uses, but I doubt meterorite
> preservation is one of them. It holds water which causes
> bacteria and other micro organisms to explode. holding water
> on a meteorite only causes rust. so as the liquid glass
> disolves and recrystalzes under the rust you end up with
> something like Lawrencite disease. with the only way to
> remove the liquid glass by perchloric acid. I may be wrong
> on this one? it may actually work but if they recomend
> flushing your radiator after the leak is sealed to prevent
> it from locking everything up from rust. I dont think it
> will work to preserve meteorites.
> 
> cheers
> Steve
> 
> --- On Thu, 2/11/10, Ed Deckert <edeckert at triad.rr.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Ed Deckert <edeckert at triad.rr.com>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Glass-coated Campos?
> > To: "Matson, Robert D." <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>,
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 3:15 AM
> > Sounds like an interesting
> > product.? But the article indicates the silicon
> dioxide
> > coating is "breathable," which makes me wonder how
> effective
> > it would be in moist climates.
> > 
> > They claim that seeds coated with "Liquid Glass"
> germinated
> > faster than seeds that were not coated.? For seeds
> to
> > germinate, I have always understood that moisture
> (water)
> > was required.? If moisture can penetrate the coating
> to
> > germinate seeds, I would think that moisture could
> get
> > through to the meteorite as well.
> > 
> > But then, I suppose it could provide additional
> protection
> > if applied after properly treating the meteorite with
> Bill
> > Mason's products.
> > 
> > Hopefully this becomes available soon and can be
> > tested.? I would caution anyone using it to exercise
> > care not to breathe in the vapors.? You would need
> to
> > wear an appropriate respirator mask, and have
> adequate
> > ventilation. Breathing silicon dioxide dust causes a
> > condition called "silicosis of the lung."? It is
> > cumulative and incurable, ultimately leading to death
> -
> > except I suppose if a lung transplant might be a
> > possibility.? I know of this condition very well as
> a
> > friend's husband died from silicosis.
> > 
> > Ed
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matson, Robert
> D."
> > <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 6:24 PM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass-coated Campos?
> > 
> > 
> > > Possible product to try on meteorites in
> conjunction
> > with "Rusty"
> > > Mason's
> > > meteorite preservation technique?
> > > 
> > > http://pda.physorg.com/_news184310039.html
> > > 
> > > --Rob
> > > 
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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From info at meteorites.com.au  Thu Feb 11 04:48:24 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:48:24 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,
	2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
Message-ID: <DB693224F5994FC8AF4E887F01CF3460@JeffPC>

Hi all,

Thanks for everyone's input. Firstly, Robert... one of the initial thoughts
I had was exactly the same in regards to the silver streaks on Ash Creek.
Maybe it is a related type of feature.

And Mark, you're not really mistaken. Mine appears on the surface of the
trailing side of the oriented individual. I say surface and not crust
because it does look like an interior metallic inclusion which is showing
through and coloured. Gary's awesome pic of his L3 with the interior
inclusion is very much like mine but on a smaller scale. It could be quite
possible that they are one and the same thing so maybe it is a result of
oxidation and not an ablation thing.

Has there been any documentation of metallic inclusions in Buzzard Coulee?
(i.e. Fe/Ni, FeS, etc) In other falls like Bensour, this was specifically
mentioned in the classification data. It would seem there are quite a few
people who have noticed them in Buzzard stones now too.

John's suggestion of Bornite is very interesting. I had never actually heard
of it before, but it does look VERY much like that. A brilliant iridescent
blue.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&q=Bornite

When I googled Bornite and meteorites, the Meteorites Knowledge Base came up
as a hit. It lists it as "terrestrially weathered iron meteorite mineral".

http://www.site.uottawa.ca:4321/meteorites/index.html#bornite

So if this is an oxidation thing as a few have suggested now, I'm wondering
if it happened on the ground or during ablation in the disturbed wake at the
back of the stone and in the bottom of an indent?

Cheers,

Jeff

>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 4:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee 
> Blue Inclusion
>
>
> I must have been mistaken, I thought somebody was talking about coloration 
> on crust and not interior features....
>
> Mark B.
> Vail, AZ
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com>
> To: Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au>
> Cc: Bernd Pauli <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>; 
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 7:21:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee 
> Blue Inclusion
>
> Aloha Jeff, Bernd, et al,
>
> I am at a conference now and have limited access to email, but was 
> informed of this interesting anomalous inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee 
> meteorite. My friend and partner of the NWA (~L3, W0/1) has identified a 
> similar feature in one of my slices. Please have a look at my 20.11g full 
> slice to see this blue feature in the middle of a troilite inclusion:
>
> http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/614g/_20.11b.jpg
>
> Because this is from the interior of the meteorite, it should dispel any 
> theory of fusion reaction during ablative flight.
>
> gary
>
> On Feb 9, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
>
>> Hi Bernd & all,
>>
>> Maybe it's possible but it's about 150X bigger than my Isheyevo 
>> Hibonite-bearing CAI or chondrule. Probably too big? Actually, I wish you 
>> could see this feature in person Bernd. The best way I can describe it is 
>> to say that is looks just like the iridescent blue colour of a Peacocks 
>> feather.
>>
>> I was sent a pic off list by another collector who has a similar smaller 
>> feature on a very fresh NWA (~L3, W0/1). There is a brassy yellow one 
>> (troilite?) with a smaller blue one like mine next to it. Both look like 
>> melted metal on the surface. I know Mark had one other much larger 
>> Buzzard with a similar thing too. Has anyone else seen this or know what 
>> could cause it?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry & Twink Monrad" 
>> <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:18 AM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee 
>> Blue Inclusion
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Subject: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>>
>>>> Hello Jeff K., Michael J., Zelimir and List,
>>>>
>>>> I am wondering if this blue metallic inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee
>>>> might be one of these hibonites that Zelimir showed us and that Jeff
>>>> Grosman identified for us.
>>>>
>>>> This made me think of the MUCH-1 and "Blue Angel" inclusions in 
>>>> Murchison
>>>> (both of them hibonite-bearing aggregates).
>>>>
>>>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2010.html
>>>>
>>>> Jeff, sincere congrats on such a fine Buzzard Coulee!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Bernd
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at 
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> Gary Fujihara
> Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
> 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
> http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
> http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html
> (808) 640-9161
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From meteoriteman at comcast.net  Thu Feb 11 05:34:22 2010
From: meteoriteman at comcast.net (meteoriteman at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:34:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite cause terror
Message-ID: <463448154.2341751265884462533.JavaMail.root@sz0098a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>


Meteorite cause terror today on 2 Mexican states Hidalgo and Puebla

It crash with loud explosion against a bridge at 6:30 PM

[link to www.eluniversal.com.mx] 

babelfish translation

[link to babelfish.yahoo.com] 

A light accompanied by a roar, that swayed houses and buildings of about five municipalities of Puebla and Hidalgo, was attributed to the fall of a meteorite. 

The place of the impact would have been the municipality of Ahuazotepec, Puebla, adjacent with Cuautepec, Noble, where a bridge collapsed and caused tension between people, according to versions of municipal authorities. 

The facts registered this Wednesday to the edge of the 18:30 hours between both populations, to where the Army arrived to surround the zone. 

The roar was listened to in Ahuazotepec and Huachinango, communities of Puebla, as well as in Tulancingo, Cuautepec and Metepec, pertaining to Noble. 

Mun?cipe of Cuautepec, Eduardo Castel?n, confirmed the event, although later it said that it did not have precise data and it even commented that would have been to the 15:30 hours. 

Civil defense of Noble informed that the lines of aid had been colapsado with calls of frightened people who requested an explanation exceeds what was happening, after the outbreak that broke windows. 

Agents of security of the three hidalguenses demarcations, as well as of Civil defense and firemen '' combed '' the zone; until the eve they did not give concrete information. 

The director of state Civil defense, Miguel Garci'a Count, said to have received the report thus investigated in the airports the binnacles since a plane crash was afraid; nevertheless, '' is no report on the loss of communication with some airship ''. Also it was speculated on on the explosion of ductos of PEMEX.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message986889/pg1

Jim K


From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr  Thu Feb 11 06:38:19 2010
From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:38:19 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,
 2010 Buzzard  Coulee Blue Inclusion
In-Reply-To: <DB693224F5994FC8AF4E887F01CF3460@JeffPC>
References: <DB693224F5994FC8AF4E887F01CF3460@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <201002111137.o1BBbmul012203@smtpmul2.univ-mulhouse.fr>

Hi Jeff, all,

The presence of Bornite inclusions in BC as 
suggested by John and you, is indeed interesting.

As a mineral collector familiar with various 
shades exhibited by metallic minerals, indeed 
Bornite, typically bluish, is the first to come in mind.
But I also have in collection quite a few 
Chalcopyrites showing a similar blue or bluish-magenta shade.

Chalcopyrite is currently brass-colored (color 
similar to Pyrite, though different and thus 
making Pyrite and Chalcopyrite easily discernable 
from each-other only by considering their color 
or glitter...) and I believe (but did not check 
so far) that its blue color might indeed stem 
from some "chemical restructuration" (I prefer 
not to use the term "oxidation", that might be here too specific).
Indeed, when you break some (brass-colored on 
surface) Chalcopyrites, you can sometimes find 
such blue areas inside the fresh fracture.

I then followed your idea to Google 
"Chalcopyrite" and, indeed, some of them show 
blue areas or are even completely blue:

http://images.google.fr/images?hl=fr&um=1&q=chalcopyrite&sa=N&start=21&ndsp=21

Apparently the blue shade could be related to the presence of copper.
Bornite is Cu5FeS4, while Clalcopyrite is CuFeS2.
Note that Pyrite (FeS2) does not contain copper and is never blue.

I remember a few other "metallic" minerals that sometimes show blue shades.
They are (from memory): Meneghinite (Pb13 Cu Sb7 
S24), Germanite (Cu26 Fe4 Ge4 S32), Briartite 
(Cu2ZnGeS4) or Renierite ((Cu,Zn)11 (Ge,As)2 Fe4 S16)
(formulas just taken from the Fleitscher's 
"Glossary of Mineral Species, 2008", that I always have on hand)

I don't claim that the last 4 minerals are 
present in meteorites (quite unlikely) but I note 
similarities with Chalcopyrite and Bornite, which are the following:

All 6 minerals involve Cu, Fe and S (S as sulfide, thus anion)

This being, Bornite and Chalcopyrite involve the simplest formulas.

Considering the Cu/Fe ratio in these 2 minerals 
and the scarcity of Cu in meteorites (with 
respect to Fe that is far more abundant), 
obviously Bornite (that contains 5 times more Cu 
than Fe) is less likely to be present in 
meteorites than Chalcopyrite in which the Cu/Fe molar ration is one.

Jeff, note also that in your second link, 
Chalcopyrite is more often cited than Bornite as 
"terrestrially weathered iron meteorite mineral"....

These are my first speculations and hopefully 
they will generate more ideas regarding this 
intriguing issue (metallic-like blue spots in 
meteorites, that I believe are definitely 
different than the blue hibonite-containing 
"chondrules" or "CAI" we discussed bout previously).

Best wishes,

Zelimir


At 10:48 11/02/2010, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Thanks for everyone's input. Firstly, Robert... one of the initial thoughts
>I had was exactly the same in regards to the silver streaks on Ash Creek.
>Maybe it is a related type of feature.
>
>And Mark, you're not really mistaken. Mine appears on the surface of the
>trailing side of the oriented individual. I say surface and not crust
>because it does look like an interior metallic inclusion which is showing
>through and coloured. Gary's awesome pic of his L3 with the interior
>inclusion is very much like mine but on a smaller scale. It could be quite
>possible that they are one and the same thing so maybe it is a result of
>oxidation and not an ablation thing.
>
>Has there been any documentation of metallic inclusions in Buzzard Coulee?
>(i.e. Fe/Ni, FeS, etc) In other falls like Bensour, this was specifically
>mentioned in the classification data. It would seem there are quite a few
>people who have noticed them in Buzzard stones now too.
>
>John's suggestion of Bornite is very interesting. I had never actually heard
>of it before, but it does look VERY much like that. A brilliant iridescent
>blue.
>
>http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&q=Bornite
>
>When I googled Bornite and meteorites, the Meteorites Knowledge Base came up
>as a hit. It lists it as "terrestrially weathered iron meteorite mineral".
>
>http://www.site.uottawa.ca:4321/meteorites/index.html#bornite
>
>So if this is an oxidation thing as a few have suggested now, I'm wondering
>if it happened on the ground or during ablation in the disturbed wake at the
>back of the stone and in the bottom of an indent?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Jeff
>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
>>To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 4:09 PM
>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - 
>>February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>
>>
>>I must have been mistaken, I thought somebody 
>>was talking about coloration on crust and not interior features....
>>
>>Mark B.
>>Vail, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com>
>>To: Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au>
>>Cc: Bernd Pauli <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>; 
>>meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 7:21:54 PM
>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - 
>>February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>
>>Aloha Jeff, Bernd, et al,
>>
>>I am at a conference now and have limited 
>>access to email, but was informed of this 
>>interesting anomalous inclusion in Jeff's 
>>Buzzard Coulee meteorite. My friend and partner 
>>of the NWA (~L3, W0/1) has identified a similar 
>>feature in one of my slices. Please have a look 
>>at my 20.11g full slice to see this blue 
>>feature in the middle of a troilite inclusion:
>>
>>http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/614g/_20.11b.jpg
>>
>>Because this is from the interior of the 
>>meteorite, it should dispel any theory of 
>>fusion reaction during ablative flight.
>>
>>gary
>>
>>On Feb 9, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Bernd & all,
>>>
>>>Maybe it's possible but it's about 150X bigger 
>>>than my Isheyevo Hibonite-bearing CAI or 
>>>chondrule. Probably too big? Actually, I wish 
>>>you could see this feature in person Bernd. 
>>>The best way I can describe it is to say that 
>>>is looks just like the iridescent blue colour of a Peacocks feather.
>>>
>>>I was sent a pic off list by another collector 
>>>who has a similar smaller feature on a very 
>>>fresh NWA (~L3, W0/1). There is a brassy 
>>>yellow one (troilite?) with a smaller blue one 
>>>like mine next to it. Both look like melted 
>>>metal on the surface. I know Mark had one 
>>>other much larger Buzzard with a similar thing 
>>>too. Has anyone else seen this or know what could cause it?
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>
>>>Jeff
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry & 
>>>Twink Monrad" <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
>>>To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:18 AM
>>>Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - 
>>>February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Subject: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>>>
>>>>>Hello Jeff K., Michael J., Zelimir and List,
>>>>>
>>>>>I am wondering if this blue metallic inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee
>>>>>might be one of these hibonites that Zelimir showed us and that Jeff
>>>>>Grosman identified for us.
>>>>>
>>>>>This made me think of the MUCH-1 and "Blue Angel" inclusions in Murchison
>>>>>(both of them hibonite-bearing aggregates).
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2010.html
>>>>>
>>>>>Jeff, sincere congrats on such a fine Buzzard Coulee!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>>Bernd
>>>>______________________________________________
>>>>Visit the Archives at 
>>>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>______________________________________________
>>>Visit the Archives at 
>>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>Gary Fujihara
>>Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
>>105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
>>http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
>>http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html
>>(808) 640-9161
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>Visit the Archives at 
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>Visit the Archives at 
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at 
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Universit? de Haute Alsace
ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
3, Rue A. Werner,
F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 



From meteoriteshow at free.fr  Thu Feb 11 07:27:37 2010
From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (meteoriteshow at free.fr)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:27:37 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday
Message-ID: <1265891257.4b73f7b95a0da@imp.free.fr>

Dear Fellow Listees,


Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow

They include:

1- Al Haggounia 001 PRIM. AUB - 8.3g partslice
Partslice #014 weighing 8.3g, dimensions 64x24x2.7mm.
Cut in one of the freshest framents of Al Haggounia 001
Displays a fair grey matrix showing how EXTREMELY FRESH the fragment is.
Shipped in a display box
NO BID YET!!! STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330402096749

2- DaG 945 - EUCRITE - 8.2g partlice
PARTSLICE #11 weighing 8.2g, dimensions 46x40x1.7mm
FRESH meteorite (W1), it displays nice BLACK FUSION CRUST on the edge.
Shipped in a display box.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330402097006

3- DaG 947 - LL6 - 1.3g partslice
Partslice weighing 1.3g, dimensions 21x15x1.5mm
Partslice with FUSION CRUST
NO BID YET!!! STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330402097690

4- SAH 02500 L3 - 47.2g endpiece
Endpiece weighing 47.2g, dimensions: 47x24x22mm.
Typical structure of SAH 02500 diplaying an inclusion, sulfures & 2 lithologoies
in a fresh matrix.
~ 5 to 10% fusion crusted.
NO BID YET!!! STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330402097962

5- SAH 03503 LL6 - 39.1g SLICE
SLICE weighing 39.1g, dimensions: 79x55x4mm.
EXTREMELY RARE!
This meteorite is VERY FRESH and even though was found FUSION CRUST LESS!
The cut surface displays sharp chondrules and fiew metal flakes in a fair grey
matrix
Close up pictures show very well the nice chondrules in an extremely fresh
matrix and the small iron flakes.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330402098693

6- SAHARAN OC #3296 - 1086g MAIN MASS
Main Mass, Semi - Individual weighing 1086g - ~111x86x61mm.
Almost fully covered by Fusion Crust with beautiful regmaglypts
The cut surface shows quite a higly metamorpised and fresh structure.
Probably a L or a LL Chondrite (from LogX = 4.34)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330402099079

Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!!
Kind regards,

Frederic Beroud
http://www.meteoriteshow.com
IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/)


From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk  Thu Feb 11 07:37:35 2010
From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:37:35 -0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matter Arising - Last Post
Message-ID: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF8B7@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>

Dear List Members

When I posted my original message under the title "Matters Arising", I expected a big response and in that respect I have not been disappointed. I would like to thank every one of you that took the trouble to reply. There were a lot of interesting comments and quite a few suggestions, but I will keep it clean.
What did surprise me, and I don't know why it did, was the overwhelmingly positive response. I would say the between 90 and 95% was positive and supportive. Many of you replied off-list and I have tried to reply to each of you in a like manner, If I have missed anyone out, please forgive me but there are only so many hours in a working-day.
Following on from the critical messages, I would just like to publically apologise if I caused any offence. I was guilty of utilising some very crass, and inappropriate stereotypes - as a Scot, I am well aware of the many negative stereotypes that exist for us - and I should have used more considered language. This rankles particularly as I am always lecturing (or should that be hectoring) my kids about adopting stereotypes to categorise groups of people. Do as I say, not as I do!
I hope that with this message, we can draw a line under this topic and can I urge all list members to please, please, please keep your postings on-topic and on-message.

Best Wishes

Peter Davidson
Curator of Minerals
?
National Museums Collection Centre
National Museums Scotland
242 West Granton Road
Edinburgh
EH5 1JA
Phone: +44?131 247 4283
p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
www.nms.ac.uk
?
?

Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker

National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.


From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk  Thu Feb 11 07:25:17 2010
From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:25:17 -0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,
	2010 Buzzard  Coulee Blue Inclusion
References: <DB693224F5994FC8AF4E887F01CF3460@JeffPC>
	<201002111137.o1BBbmul012203@smtpmul2.univ-mulhouse.fr>
Message-ID: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF8B6@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>

Hi Guys

Zelimir, your reasoning is very sound. There are many minerals that, though they are not normally blue, often exhibit a tarnish that can appear blue. I doubt if bornite is the mineral in question - though without examining the material in close-up it is impossible to say. Chalcopyrite is a stronger possibility. We, in our collections, have a few very fine samples of what is sometimes called "Peacock Ore". This is chalcopyrite that has been tarnished and can appear in a rainbow of colours - as the name suggests - but it can be bright blue. Bornite can tarnish as well and, indeed, some specimens on the market that are marketed as bornite are acid treated chalcopyrite.

Cheers

Peter Davidson
Curator of Minerals
 
National Museums Collection Centre
National Museums Scotland
242 West Granton Road
Edinburgh
EH5 1JA
Phone: +44 131 247 4283
p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
www.nms.ac.uk
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Zelimir Gabelica
Sent: 11 February 2010 11:38
To: Jeff Kuyken; Meteorite List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion

Hi Jeff, all,

The presence of Bornite inclusions in BC as 
suggested by John and you, is indeed interesting.

As a mineral collector familiar with various 
shades exhibited by metallic minerals, indeed 
Bornite, typically bluish, is the first to come in mind.
But I also have in collection quite a few 
Chalcopyrites showing a similar blue or bluish-magenta shade.

Chalcopyrite is currently brass-colored (color 
similar to Pyrite, though different and thus 
making Pyrite and Chalcopyrite easily discernable 
from each-other only by considering their color 
or glitter...) and I believe (but did not check 
so far) that its blue color might indeed stem 
from some "chemical restructuration" (I prefer 
not to use the term "oxidation", that might be here too specific).
Indeed, when you break some (brass-colored on 
surface) Chalcopyrites, you can sometimes find 
such blue areas inside the fresh fracture.

I then followed your idea to Google 
"Chalcopyrite" and, indeed, some of them show 
blue areas or are even completely blue:

http://images.google.fr/images?hl=fr&um=1&q=chalcopyrite&sa=N&start=21&ndsp=21

Apparently the blue shade could be related to the presence of copper.
Bornite is Cu5FeS4, while Clalcopyrite is CuFeS2.
Note that Pyrite (FeS2) does not contain copper and is never blue.

I remember a few other "metallic" minerals that sometimes show blue shades.
They are (from memory): Meneghinite (Pb13 Cu Sb7 
S24), Germanite (Cu26 Fe4 Ge4 S32), Briartite 
(Cu2ZnGeS4) or Renierite ((Cu,Zn)11 (Ge,As)2 Fe4 S16)
(formulas just taken from the Fleitscher's 
"Glossary of Mineral Species, 2008", that I always have on hand)

I don't claim that the last 4 minerals are 
present in meteorites (quite unlikely) but I note 
similarities with Chalcopyrite and Bornite, which are the following:

All 6 minerals involve Cu, Fe and S (S as sulfide, thus anion)

This being, Bornite and Chalcopyrite involve the simplest formulas.

Considering the Cu/Fe ratio in these 2 minerals 
and the scarcity of Cu in meteorites (with 
respect to Fe that is far more abundant), 
obviously Bornite (that contains 5 times more Cu 
than Fe) is less likely to be present in 
meteorites than Chalcopyrite in which the Cu/Fe molar ration is one.

Jeff, note also that in your second link, 
Chalcopyrite is more often cited than Bornite as 
"terrestrially weathered iron meteorite mineral"....

These are my first speculations and hopefully 
they will generate more ideas regarding this 
intriguing issue (metallic-like blue spots in 
meteorites, that I believe are definitely 
different than the blue hibonite-containing 
"chondrules" or "CAI" we discussed bout previously).

Best wishes,

Zelimir


At 10:48 11/02/2010, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Thanks for everyone's input. Firstly, Robert... one of the initial thoughts
>I had was exactly the same in regards to the silver streaks on Ash Creek.
>Maybe it is a related type of feature.
>
>And Mark, you're not really mistaken. Mine appears on the surface of the
>trailing side of the oriented individual. I say surface and not crust
>because it does look like an interior metallic inclusion which is showing
>through and coloured. Gary's awesome pic of his L3 with the interior
>inclusion is very much like mine but on a smaller scale. It could be quite
>possible that they are one and the same thing so maybe it is a result of
>oxidation and not an ablation thing.
>
>Has there been any documentation of metallic inclusions in Buzzard Coulee?
>(i.e. Fe/Ni, FeS, etc) In other falls like Bensour, this was specifically
>mentioned in the classification data. It would seem there are quite a few
>people who have noticed them in Buzzard stones now too.
>
>John's suggestion of Bornite is very interesting. I had never actually heard
>of it before, but it does look VERY much like that. A brilliant iridescent
>blue.
>
>http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&q=Bornite
>
>When I googled Bornite and meteorites, the Meteorites Knowledge Base came up
>as a hit. It lists it as "terrestrially weathered iron meteorite mineral".
>
>http://www.site.uottawa.ca:4321/meteorites/index.html#bornite
>
>So if this is an oxidation thing as a few have suggested now, I'm wondering
>if it happened on the ground or during ablation in the disturbed wake at the
>back of the stone and in the bottom of an indent?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Jeff
>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
>>To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 4:09 PM
>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - 
>>February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>
>>
>>I must have been mistaken, I thought somebody 
>>was talking about coloration on crust and not interior features....
>>
>>Mark B.
>>Vail, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com>
>>To: Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au>
>>Cc: Bernd Pauli <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>; 
>>meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 7:21:54 PM
>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - 
>>February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>
>>Aloha Jeff, Bernd, et al,
>>
>>I am at a conference now and have limited 
>>access to email, but was informed of this 
>>interesting anomalous inclusion in Jeff's 
>>Buzzard Coulee meteorite. My friend and partner 
>>of the NWA (~L3, W0/1) has identified a similar 
>>feature in one of my slices. Please have a look 
>>at my 20.11g full slice to see this blue 
>>feature in the middle of a troilite inclusion:
>>
>>http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/614g/_20.11b.jpg
>>
>>Because this is from the interior of the 
>>meteorite, it should dispel any theory of 
>>fusion reaction during ablative flight.
>>
>>gary
>>
>>On Feb 9, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Bernd & all,
>>>
>>>Maybe it's possible but it's about 150X bigger 
>>>than my Isheyevo Hibonite-bearing CAI or 
>>>chondrule. Probably too big? Actually, I wish 
>>>you could see this feature in person Bernd. 
>>>The best way I can describe it is to say that 
>>>is looks just like the iridescent blue colour of a Peacocks feather.
>>>
>>>I was sent a pic off list by another collector 
>>>who has a similar smaller feature on a very 
>>>fresh NWA (~L3, W0/1). There is a brassy 
>>>yellow one (troilite?) with a smaller blue one 
>>>like mine next to it. Both look like melted 
>>>metal on the surface. I know Mark had one 
>>>other much larger Buzzard with a similar thing 
>>>too. Has anyone else seen this or know what could cause it?
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>
>>>Jeff
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry & 
>>>Twink Monrad" <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
>>>To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:18 AM
>>>Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - 
>>>February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Subject: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>>>
>>>>>Hello Jeff K., Michael J., Zelimir and List,
>>>>>
>>>>>I am wondering if this blue metallic inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee
>>>>>might be one of these hibonites that Zelimir showed us and that Jeff
>>>>>Grosman identified for us.
>>>>>
>>>>>This made me think of the MUCH-1 and "Blue Angel" inclusions in Murchison
>>>>>(both of them hibonite-bearing aggregates).
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2010.html
>>>>>
>>>>>Jeff, sincere congrats on such a fine Buzzard Coulee!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>>Bernd
>>>>______________________________________________
>>>>Visit the Archives at 
>>>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>______________________________________________
>>>Visit the Archives at 
>>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>Gary Fujihara
>>Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
>>105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
>>http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
>>http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html
>>(808) 640-9161
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>Visit the Archives at 
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>Visit the Archives at 
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at 
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Universit? de Haute Alsace
ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
3, Rue A. Werner,
F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker

National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Thu Feb 11 08:05:09 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (michael at rocksfromspace.org)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:05:09 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 11,
	2010
Message-ID: <1098784085-1265893461-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2140850798-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_11_2010.html


______________


Thumbed On My BlackBerry


From info at meteorites.com.au  Thu Feb 11 08:25:48 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:25:48 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,
	2010 Buzzard  Coulee Blue Inclusion
In-Reply-To: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF8B6@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>
References: <DB693224F5994FC8AF4E887F01CF3460@JeffPC>
	<201002111137.o1BBbmul012203@smtpmul2.univ-mulhouse.fr>
	<D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF8B6@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>
Message-ID: <E2E28AC5BFFB46408E6FDE1668337AFD@JeffPC>

Thanks to Zelimir and Peter for their time and input. It certainly sounds 
like a very reasonable theory to me. I just wanted to share this extra 
picture which Gary has just given me permssion to post. Thanks Gary. It is a 
closeup of the inclusion in his L3 slice.

http://www.meteorites.com.au/images/blueinclusiondetail.jpg

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Davidson" <P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk>
To: "Zelimir Gabelica" <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>; "Jeff Kuyken" 
<info at meteorites.com.au>; "Meteorite List" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:25 PM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee 
Blue Inclusion


Hi Guys

Zelimir, your reasoning is very sound. There are many minerals that, though 
they are not normally blue, often exhibit a tarnish that can appear blue. I 
doubt if bornite is the mineral in question - though without examining the 
material in close-up it is impossible to say. Chalcopyrite is a stronger 
possibility. We, in our collections, have a few very fine samples of what is 
sometimes called "Peacock Ore". This is chalcopyrite that has been tarnished 
and can appear in a rainbow of colours - as the name suggests - but it can 
be bright blue. Bornite can tarnish as well and, indeed, some specimens on 
the market that are marketed as bornite are acid treated chalcopyrite.

Cheers

Peter Davidson
Curator of Minerals

National Museums Collection Centre
National Museums Scotland
242 West Granton Road
Edinburgh
EH5 1JA
Phone: +44 131 247 4283
p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
www.nms.ac.uk


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Zelimir 
Gabelica
Sent: 11 February 2010 11:38
To: Jeff Kuyken; Meteorite List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee 
Blue Inclusion

Hi Jeff, all,

The presence of Bornite inclusions in BC as
suggested by John and you, is indeed interesting.

As a mineral collector familiar with various
shades exhibited by metallic minerals, indeed
Bornite, typically bluish, is the first to come in mind.
But I also have in collection quite a few
Chalcopyrites showing a similar blue or bluish-magenta shade.

Chalcopyrite is currently brass-colored (color
similar to Pyrite, though different and thus
making Pyrite and Chalcopyrite easily discernable
from each-other only by considering their color
or glitter...) and I believe (but did not check
so far) that its blue color might indeed stem
from some "chemical restructuration" (I prefer
not to use the term "oxidation", that might be here too specific).
Indeed, when you break some (brass-colored on
surface) Chalcopyrites, you can sometimes find
such blue areas inside the fresh fracture.

I then followed your idea to Google
"Chalcopyrite" and, indeed, some of them show
blue areas or are even completely blue:

http://images.google.fr/images?hl=fr&um=1&q=chalcopyrite&sa=N&start=21&ndsp=21

Apparently the blue shade could be related to the presence of copper.
Bornite is Cu5FeS4, while Clalcopyrite is CuFeS2.
Note that Pyrite (FeS2) does not contain copper and is never blue.

I remember a few other "metallic" minerals that sometimes show blue shades.
They are (from memory): Meneghinite (Pb13 Cu Sb7
S24), Germanite (Cu26 Fe4 Ge4 S32), Briartite
(Cu2ZnGeS4) or Renierite ((Cu,Zn)11 (Ge,As)2 Fe4 S16)
(formulas just taken from the Fleitscher's
"Glossary of Mineral Species, 2008", that I always have on hand)

I don't claim that the last 4 minerals are
present in meteorites (quite unlikely) but I note
similarities with Chalcopyrite and Bornite, which are the following:

All 6 minerals involve Cu, Fe and S (S as sulfide, thus anion)

This being, Bornite and Chalcopyrite involve the simplest formulas.

Considering the Cu/Fe ratio in these 2 minerals
and the scarcity of Cu in meteorites (with
respect to Fe that is far more abundant),
obviously Bornite (that contains 5 times more Cu
than Fe) is less likely to be present in
meteorites than Chalcopyrite in which the Cu/Fe molar ration is one.

Jeff, note also that in your second link,
Chalcopyrite is more often cited than Bornite as
"terrestrially weathered iron meteorite mineral"....

These are my first speculations and hopefully
they will generate more ideas regarding this
intriguing issue (metallic-like blue spots in
meteorites, that I believe are definitely
different than the blue hibonite-containing
"chondrules" or "CAI" we discussed bout previously).

Best wishes,

Zelimir


At 10:48 11/02/2010, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Thanks for everyone's input. Firstly, Robert... one of the initial thoughts
>I had was exactly the same in regards to the silver streaks on Ash Creek.
>Maybe it is a related type of feature.
>
>And Mark, you're not really mistaken. Mine appears on the surface of the
>trailing side of the oriented individual. I say surface and not crust
>because it does look like an interior metallic inclusion which is showing
>through and coloured. Gary's awesome pic of his L3 with the interior
>inclusion is very much like mine but on a smaller scale. It could be quite
>possible that they are one and the same thing so maybe it is a result of
>oxidation and not an ablation thing.
>
>Has there been any documentation of metallic inclusions in Buzzard Coulee?
>(i.e. Fe/Ni, FeS, etc) In other falls like Bensour, this was specifically
>mentioned in the classification data. It would seem there are quite a few
>people who have noticed them in Buzzard stones now too.
>
>John's suggestion of Bornite is very interesting. I had never actually 
>heard
>of it before, but it does look VERY much like that. A brilliant iridescent
>blue.
>
>http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&q=Bornite
>
>When I googled Bornite and meteorites, the Meteorites Knowledge Base came 
>up
>as a hit. It lists it as "terrestrially weathered iron meteorite mineral".
>
>http://www.site.uottawa.ca:4321/meteorites/index.html#bornite
>
>So if this is an oxidation thing as a few have suggested now, I'm wondering
>if it happened on the ground or during ablation in the disturbed wake at 
>the
>back of the stone and in the bottom of an indent?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Jeff
>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
>>To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 4:09 PM
>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD -
>>February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>
>>
>>I must have been mistaken, I thought somebody
>>was talking about coloration on crust and not interior features....
>>
>>Mark B.
>>Vail, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com>
>>To: Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au>
>>Cc: Bernd Pauli <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>;
>>meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 7:21:54 PM
>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD -
>>February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>
>>Aloha Jeff, Bernd, et al,
>>
>>I am at a conference now and have limited
>>access to email, but was informed of this
>>interesting anomalous inclusion in Jeff's
>>Buzzard Coulee meteorite. My friend and partner
>>of the NWA (~L3, W0/1) has identified a similar
>>feature in one of my slices. Please have a look
>>at my 20.11g full slice to see this blue
>>feature in the middle of a troilite inclusion:
>>
>>http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/614g/_20.11b.jpg
>>
>>Because this is from the interior of the
>>meteorite, it should dispel any theory of
>>fusion reaction during ablative flight.
>>
>>gary
>>
>>On Feb 9, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Bernd & all,
>>>
>>>Maybe it's possible but it's about 150X bigger
>>>than my Isheyevo Hibonite-bearing CAI or
>>>chondrule. Probably too big? Actually, I wish
>>>you could see this feature in person Bernd.
>>>The best way I can describe it is to say that
>>>is looks just like the iridescent blue colour of a Peacocks feather.
>>>
>>>I was sent a pic off list by another collector
>>>who has a similar smaller feature on a very
>>>fresh NWA (~L3, W0/1). There is a brassy
>>>yellow one (troilite?) with a smaller blue one
>>>like mine next to it. Both look like melted
>>>metal on the surface. I know Mark had one
>>>other much larger Buzzard with a similar thing
>>>too. Has anyone else seen this or know what could cause it?
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>
>>>Jeff
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry &
>>>Twink Monrad" <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
>>>To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:18 AM
>>>Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD -
>>>February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Subject: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>>>
>>>>>Hello Jeff K., Michael J., Zelimir and List,
>>>>>
>>>>>I am wondering if this blue metallic inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee
>>>>>might be one of these hibonites that Zelimir showed us and that Jeff
>>>>>Grosman identified for us.
>>>>>
>>>>>This made me think of the MUCH-1 and "Blue Angel" inclusions in 
>>>>>Murchison
>>>>>(both of them hibonite-bearing aggregates).
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2010.html
>>>>>
>>>>>Jeff, sincere congrats on such a fine Buzzard Coulee!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>>Bernd
>>>>______________________________________________
>>>>Visit the Archives at
>>>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>______________________________________________
>>>Visit the Archives at
>>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>Gary Fujihara
>>Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
>>105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
>>http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
>>http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html
>>(808) 640-9161
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>Visit the Archives at
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>Visit the Archives at
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Universit? de Haute Alsace
ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
3, Rue A. Werner,
F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National 
Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker

National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the 
addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. 
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the 
author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. 
This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of 
Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that 
may be caused to your systems or data by this message.




From info at meteorites.com.au  Thu Feb 11 08:30:52 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:30:52 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Monthly Favourite - June 2009
Message-ID: <8DCCDFB8D5D4441EAE5543727AE3540E@JeffPC>

Just trying to catch up on some meteorite stuff!

I always thought this one was a bit of an "ugly duckling" but after browsing 
through a few abstracts I now find myself looking at this one in a different 
light.

http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/june2009.html

Cheers,

Jeff




From markmurphy at cablerocket.com  Thu Feb 11 08:22:21 2010
From: markmurphy at cablerocket.com (Mark Murphy)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:22:21 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Buzzard Coulee specimens with Canadian Export
	Permits
Message-ID: <7BD198D8-8549-4080-B6F0-17BD7ED8A35E@cablerocket.com>

Hello List,

As the incredible Tucson Show comes near a close I still have some  
fine Buzzard Coulee Specimens.
They can be seen at KD Meteorites Room 103 at the Inn Suites for  
those still at the show.

It truly has been a honor and a pleasure meeting so many great people.

Many Thanks,

Mark Murphy
IMCA# 6216


From jkg2 at cox.net  Thu Feb 11 10:18:47 2010
From: jkg2 at cox.net (John Gwilliam)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:18:47 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
 11, 2010
In-Reply-To: <1098784085-1265893461-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim
	.net-2140850798-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1098784085-1265893461-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2140850798-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <20100211151849.LMUL20722.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>

Congratulations are in order for Greg. How cool!

John

At 06:05 AM 2/11/2010, michael at rocksfromspace.org wrote:
>http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_11_2010.html
>
>
>______________
>
>
>Thumbed On My BlackBerry
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at 
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Regards,

John Gwilliam

Some people are born on third base
and go through life thinking they hit a triple.
                                              [Bob Dylan]  



From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr  Thu Feb 11 10:25:31 2010
From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:25:31 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] SAU 290 & L3 blue inclusion
In-Reply-To: <8DCCDFB8D5D4441EAE5543727AE3540E@JeffPC>
References: <8DCCDFB8D5D4441EAE5543727AE3540E@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <201002111525.o1BFP06i016436@smtpmul2.univ-mulhouse.fr>

Hi Jeff,

Thanks Jeff for your very interesting and 
expertized statements on SAU 290. Since I read 
them, I am also starting to consider my 7.93 g 
end section just a little more significant than a 
simple or rare collection curiosity.

Thanks also for providing Gary's close-up of the blue inclusion in his L3.
Even if magnified, it is difficult to guess (from 
the pic) whether it has a metallic luster or it 
is rather a "blue stony" (glassy ?) inclusion.
I suggest Gary examines it at different 
reflection angles under magnification to possibly 
answer that question, namely to discriminate 
between a hibonite-bearing inclusion (or alike) 
and some Cu-Fe sulfide (or any other blue metallic phase).
(Btw, thank you and Peter for your kind comments).

Side note:

I'd also like to answer Jeff Grossman's comments 
regarding the "blue chondrule" we had found in TNZ 082.

Jeff wrote (post sent Feb 7):

<If this is a hibonite-bearing CAI, is it 
important?  There is current research on hibonite 
in CMs, e.g. http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0016703709003251.
I would contact somebody like Andy Davis at U. 
Chicago, a coauthor on this paper, and get his 
opinion if you're thinking of donating this to science>.

That fragment of TNZ 082 was broken in Munich by 
the team of Philippe Schmitt-Kopplin with whom we 
collaborate to investigate the presence of 
organic extraterrestrial molecules (PAH's & O-, 
N- or S-substitutes) in a series of CM2's, among which TNZ 082 and others.
(Btw, our first paper on Murchison is almost out 
of press. We were notified the the "embargo" on 
that publication will end beginning next week; I'll then send you the link).

Jeff, I have notified my German colleagues of 
your wise suggestion to contact the U. Chicago team.
They answered me that they are right now being 
analyzing that inclusion by microprobe just to 
determine the elemental composition.
Microprobe being a non-destructive technique (the 
sample won't be gold-coated), they agreed that, 
if of interest, the chondrule could then be sent 
as such for further investigation to some other lab.
In such a case, we will get in contact with Andy Davis' team.

Many thanks for the suggestion and for all your comments.

Kind regards to all (from the very snowy and cold 
Alsace, France; apparently, seems we must go 
above the Polar Circle to get mild weather...?)

Zelimir


At 14:30 11/02/2010, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
>Just trying to catch up on some meteorite stuff!
>
>I always thought this one was a bit of an "ugly 
>duckling" but after browsing through a few 
>abstracts I now find myself looking at this one in a different light.
>
>http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/june2009.html
>
>Cheers,
>
>Jeff
>
>
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at 
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Universit? de Haute Alsace
ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
3, Rue A. Werner,
F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 



From bandk at chorus.net  Thu Feb 11 10:58:03 2010
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:58:03 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] FOR SALE: L@@K ON EBAY #120526997613 ENDING
	TONIGHT! (12) Different Meteorites in (15) displays/packages!!
Message-ID: <BABF56E282FA41C8B1997A77EF635A41@owner55652f88b>

Hi All,
I have some great items ending later tonight.

I still have the (12) different Meteorites in (15) displays/packages FOR 
SALE. Price has been re-adjusted again to sell these babies TONIGHT! Use the 
BUY IT NOW feature on this one!
Item #120526997613 on ebay.

Also----have a very rare Austrian Meteorite Stamp up for sale. The stamp 
that has the Meteorite dust/bits infused into the tail of the Meteor on the 
front of the stamp!! Very hard to find these---even on Ebay. Check for 
yourself!! Will ship for FREE if you use the BUY IT NOW feature and live in 
the USA!!  Item #120529140106

And finally---also ending tonight---for all of you METEORITE & FOOTBALL FANS 
out there! (I know you're out there!!) I have a very nice personally signed 
8x10 photo of BRETT FAVRE that has been nicely matted and framed in an 11x14 
frame. Framed item also comes with 5 great original 1997 Upper Deck Super 
Bowl football cards placed into the frame to make it look like a plaque! And 
it indeed has a rock solid COA!! This is priced to sell too!!
Item #120527000777

Thank you All,
Kirk......

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Becky and Kirk" <bandk at chorus.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: FOR SALE: L@@K ON EBAY #120526997613 (12) Different Meteorites 
in (15) displays/packages!!



From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Thu Feb 11 11:26:58 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul H.)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:26:58 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Paper About Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis
Message-ID: <20100211112658.U9ARU.691042.imail@eastrmwml39>

A new paper about the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis has
appeared in the journal Geomorphlogy. It is:

Mahaney, W. C., V. Kalm, D. H. Krinsley, P. Tricart, S. Schwartz, J. Dohm, 
K. J. Kim, B. Kapran, M. W. Milner, R. Beukens, S. Boccia, R. G. V. 
Hancock, K. M. Hart, and B. Kelleher, 2010, Evidence from the 
northwestern Venezuelan Andes for extraterrestrial impact: The 
black mat enigma. Geomorphology. vol. 116, no. 1-2, pp. 48-57.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.geomorph.2009.10.007

Not quite sure what to make of it yet. 

Yours,

Paul H.



From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 11 12:21:50 2010
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:21:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matter Arising - Last Post
Message-ID: <5159891.1265908910387.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Dear Peter and List Members,

As I was the first Listee to post a negative observation of the sctivity depicted in the photos and at the same time identify myself as a teaching member of an organization that is quite often mis-characterized in the main stream media and the halls of academia, I was offended by the draping of a stereotypical coat about my shoulders. It is said that "if the coat fits, then wear it". In this case it does indeed fit as I really should have refrained from criticizing the photos on List and done it privately. 

I was relieved to read Peter's unnecessary mea culpa as he has earned and is entitled to the respect of all who are occupied and are infatuated with meteorites. This List would have been the lesser without his continuing participation. His "kids" and the National Museums Scotland - Mineral Collection are fortunate to have him as Curator.

Scout's honor I will not post off topic.

Sincerely,

Count Guido Deiro
IMCA 3536

P.S. Just one little aside, Peter. I am happily married these 42 years to Joan Marlene Colquhoun, a fair maid of Luss, who has prevailed in getting me to often visit your lush and beautiful land, enjoy the pipes, wear her tartan on occasion and eat haggis...me being an Italian! 

 
 





    

-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Davidson <P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk>
>Sent: Feb 11, 2010 7:37 AM
>To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Matter Arising - Last Post
>
>Dear List Members
>
>When I posted my original message under the title "Matters Arising", I expected a big response and in that respect I have not been disappointed. I would like to thank every one of you that took the trouble to reply. There were a lot of interesting comments and quite a few suggestions, but I will keep it clean.
>What did surprise me, and I don't know why it did, was the overwhelmingly positive response. I would say the between 90 and 95% was positive and supportive. Many of you replied off-list and I have tried to reply to each of you in a like manner, If I have missed anyone out, please forgive me but there are only so many hours in a working-day.
>Following on from the critical messages, I would just like to publically apologise if I caused any offence. I was guilty of utilising some very crass, and inappropriate stereotypes - as a Scot, I am well aware of the many negative stereotypes that exist for us - and I should have used more considered language. This rankles particularly as I am always lecturing (or should that be hectoring) my kids about adopting stereotypes to categorise groups of people. Do as I say, not as I do!
>I hope that with this message, we can draw a line under this topic and can I urge all list members to please, please, please keep your postings on-topic and on-message.
>
>Best Wishes
>
>Peter Davidson
>Curator of Minerals
>?
>National Museums Collection Centre
>National Museums Scotland
>242 West Granton Road
>Edinburgh
>EH5 1JA
>Phone: +44?131 247 4283
>p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
>www.nms.ac.uk
>?
>?
>
>Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker
>
>National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
>This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From GeoZay at aol.com  Thu Feb 11 12:31:16 2010
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:31:16 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Monthly Favourite - June 2009
Message-ID: <a677.77765208.38a598e4@aol.com>


Very Nice website. I like your clean and  clear meteorite photographs.
GeoZay  



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 11 12:57:16 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:57:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Cause of the current snow
Message-ID: <648429.2748.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/01/why-the-us-and-much-of-europe-are-shivering-in-the-cold.ars

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From geeg48 at msn.com  Thu Feb 11 13:54:40 2010
From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:54:40 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Cause of the current snow
In-Reply-To: <648429.2748.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <648429.2748.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-W186538882E5473BF1D1CE8C94E0@phx.gbl>


 
    E.P. Grondine,
 
  Exactly what does your "politically correct" posting about "global warming" have to do with the subject of this List, namely, METEORITES?
 
 
  Greg Lindh
 


----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:57:16 -0800
> From: epgrondine at yahoo.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Cause of the current snow
>
> Hi all -
>
> http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/01/why-the-us-and-much-of-europe-are-shivering-in-the-cold.ars
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  

From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:29:08 2010
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:29:08 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits Mexico Leaving 30 Meter Crater in
 Ahuazotepec Municipality
Message-ID: <SNT117-W3FEB8BADFB817A4909B3DD24E0@phx.gbl>


Hi List:

Is this old, or did it just occur?? 

Greg S.


http://newsolio.com/meteor-hits-mexico-leaving-30-meter-crater-in-ahuazotepec-municipality,5224


Meteorite Hits Mexico Leaving 30 Meter Crater in Ahuazotepec Municipality

A meteorite has smashed into the ground in Mexico, leaving a 30 meter (100 feet) wide crater, reports said.

The meteorite impact was in the Ahuazotepec Municipality in Central Mexico between the cities of Puebla and Hidalgo.

The precise impact area of the meteorite was in a relatively unpopulated area and hit around 6.30pm local time, Mexican media said.

The Ahuazotepec, Mexico meteorite impact was so massive it broke windows in homes many kilometers from the epicenter and people reported buildings swaying and mass confusion. Other reports said the Mexico meteorite impact partially damaged a road and a bridge.

The Mexican military was called in to lock down the area where the apparent space rock slammed into the ground.

Initial fears where that the impact was a aircraft crashing to the ground, but that report was later dismissed.

The Central Mexico meteorite event was witnessed by countless people in the region of the impact, with people as far away as Mexico City saying they saw the burning object enter the atmosphere.

Article ? Crazy News Media ? All Rights Reserved.
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/

From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Feb 11 14:41:40 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:41:40 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
In-Reply-To: <SNT117-W3FEB8BADFB817A4909B3DD24E0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT117-W3FEB8BADFB817A4909B3DD24E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <van8n513aphkif0noq2a80hppdk6h5gaf2@4ax.com>

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/11/breaking-mexican-meteorite-impact/


From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Feb 11 14:45:28 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:45:28 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for granite!
In-Reply-To: <SNT117-W3FEB8BADFB817A4909B3DD24E0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT117-W3FEB8BADFB817A4909B3DD24E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4hn8n51250b6hv7qobsvo0bkl898jh692a@4ax.com>

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gHt4NoeWwYXIjlcyAaDowvFEK-FA

Russia nabs meteorite smuggling ring

(AFP) ? 7 hours ago

MOSCOW ? Amid a huge bounty of contraband goods seized recently at a Russian
airport, one far-out find floored customs officials: chunks of meteorite.

"On the customs declaration, the smugglers identified it as granite for
construction and decoration of office space," Larisa Ledovskikh, a spokeswoman
for customs at Moscow's Domodedovo airport, told AFP on Thursday.

"But our officials could see it was clearly not granite!"

The two smugglers -- who also tried to ship out silver antiques, fossils,
semi-precious stones, microscopes and old books in the suspect cargo -- were
initially charged with making a false declaration on their customs form.

Only after a three-month investigation did officials discover that the mystery
lumps were fragments from outer space and the men part of a larger crime ring
including experts and scientists, Ledovskikh said.

"They were part of an organized criminal gang. They had worked out a plan in
advance to smuggle out of Russian territory and to the Czech Republic... two
meteorite chunks, each weighing 100 grams," she said.

The two men were arrested on Sunday and charged with contraband, a sentence that
carries a maximum of 12 years in prison in Russia.


From ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com  Thu Feb 11 15:33:07 2010
From: ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com (Matson, Robert D.)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:33:07 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] NEO 2010 CR5 - Greg Hupe co-discovery!
In-Reply-To: <1098784085-1265893461-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2140850798-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1098784085-1265893461-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2140850798-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702BF3399@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Congratulations, Greg, on your NEO codiscovery!  A Minor Planet
Electronic
Circular was posted for it a little while ago:

http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/mpec/K10/K10C44.html

Based on the preliminary orbit, this is an earth-crossing (and
Mars-crossing)
Apollo asteroid.  At H=22.3, the size is somewhere from 110-190 meters
depending on how dark the NEO is.

--Rob


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 11 15:33:38 2010
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:33:38 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	11, 2010
References: <962013.74800.qm@web113604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<01C04072896D471BB183BD72766C095F@Gregor>
Message-ID: <747710D4F4274ADDAE0007E190A369A8@D190TH71>

Very cool, Greg!
That would have amazing even without finding any NEO's, but  to find three? 
Wow!
Glad you got the chance to go. Kudos to Richard!
By the way, are any of these heading for my back yard? <g>
Linton

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_11_2010.html


______________


Thumbed On My BlackBerry
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Feb 11 16:00:54 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:00:54 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Well, I'M terribly inspired!
In-Reply-To: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702BF3399@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
References: <1098784085-1265893461-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2140850798-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702BF3399@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
Message-ID: <9vr8n59f8b3gn1sfnl85s7jv0b26f5v63p@4ax.com>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8509771.stm


From geohiggins at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 11 15:55:52 2010
From: geohiggins at yahoo.com (John higgins)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:55:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Cause of the current snow
In-Reply-To: <BLU125-W186538882E5473BF1D1CE8C94E0@phx.gbl>
References: <648429.2748.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BLU125-W186538882E5473BF1D1CE8C94E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <107448.2861.qm@web63203.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

I think the cause of the extremely cold winter is due to the extreme Solar Minimum. The climate on Earth is directly affected by the activities of the Sun. Look into solar cycles, and the effect on climate change, there is more to it than you would think.

John Higgins



----- Original Message ----
From: GREG LINDH <geeg48 at msn.com>
To: epgrondine at yahoo.com
Cc: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thu, February 11, 2010 1:54:40 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Cause of the current snow



    E.P. Grondine,

  Exactly what does your "politically correct" posting about "global warming" have to do with the subject of this List, namely, METEORITES?


  Greg Lindh



----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:57:16 -0800
> From: epgrondine at yahoo.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Cause of the current snow
>
> Hi all -
>
> http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/01/why-the-us-and-much-of-europe-are-shivering-in-the-cold.ars
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list                           
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 11 15:59:48 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:59:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Well, I'M terribly inspired!
In-Reply-To: <9vr8n59f8b3gn1sfnl85s7jv0b26f5v63p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <85073.76470.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Looks like a nice polished window has already been made. Interesting that they didn't show the interior to the camera.
--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 2/11/10, Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote:

> From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Well, I'M terribly inspired!
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 2:00 PM
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8509771.stm
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 11 16:04:35 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:04:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
In-Reply-To: <van8n513aphkif0noq2a80hppdk6h5gaf2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <927118.80541.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Interesting that reports of a 30 meter crater was created, but USGS real time earthquake reporting doesn't show any event near the reported impact site...

One would imagine such an impact would have set off the seismometers, no?

Patiently waiting for video...
--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 2/11/10, Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote:

> From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:41 PM
> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/11/breaking-mexican-meteorite-impact/
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From hraab at aon.at  Thu Feb 11 15:57:50 2010
From: hraab at aon.at (Herbert Raab)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:57:50 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Kainsaz, Orgueil, and more
Message-ID: <4B746F4E.8809.3C4366@hraab.aon.at>


Dear fellow collectors,

I recently upgraded my Kainsaz collection piece, so I put my previous sample (a 5.6g slice) from that 1937 carbonaceous 
chondrite fall on ebay. I also offer a 10mg sample from Orgueil (CI1), a representative 224g individual with cut face and great 
fusion crust from Zag (H3-6) and a very nice, perfectly oriented NWA-stone with 10.05g. Click this link if you want to check these 
meteorites out:

http://shop.ebay.com/hr0124/m.html

Thanks for looking!

  Herbert Raab
  IMC #3184





From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 11 16:09:41 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:09:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	11, 2010
Message-ID: <329017.91001.qm@web113604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Unfortunately for Greg, the night was plagued with a number of problems so he didn't get a full night.

The three rocks he got, 2010 CJ1, 2010 CM1 & 2010 CR5 were picked up during a 4 hour window where the telescope, software and weather all cooperated.

Linton, 3 new NEOs in one night isn't that much out of the ordinary. We've been clouded out much of this year, so I suspect over the next two weeks, with the forecast for clear skies (finally) we'll see 5 or more new NEOs each and every night.


--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 2/11/10, Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 11, 2010
> To: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 1:33 PM
> Very cool, Greg!
> That would have amazing even without finding any NEO's,
> but? to find three? Wow!
> Glad you got the chance to go. Kudos to Richard!
> By the way, are any of these heading for my back yard?
> <g>
> Linton
> 
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_11_2010.html
> 
> 
> ______________
> 
> 
> Thumbed On My BlackBerry
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



      


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 11 17:02:24 2010
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:02:24 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	February11, 2010
References: <329017.91001.qm@web113604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C8B343C259DF45D9A608F49F03DB16F9@D190TH71>

Thanks for clarifying that, Richard.
I just didn't want to imply you guys were slacking off up there! ;^)
I'd bet good money that Greg was thrilled to get three!
And hey, thanks again for signing my Alamata Sita.
That was most kind of you.
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
February11, 2010


Unfortunately for Greg, the night was plagued with a number of problems so 
he didn't get a full night.

The three rocks he got, 2010 CJ1, 2010 CM1 & 2010 CR5 were picked up during 
a 4 hour window where the telescope, software and weather all cooperated.

Linton, 3 new NEOs in one night isn't that much out of the ordinary. We've 
been clouded out much of this year, so I suspect over the next two weeks, 
with the forecast for clear skies (finally) we'll see 5 or more new NEOs 
each and every night.


--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 2/11/10, Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
> February 11, 2010
> To: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 1:33 PM
> Very cool, Greg!
> That would have amazing even without finding any NEO's,
> but to find three? Wow!
> Glad you got the chance to go. Kudos to Richard!
> By the way, are any of these heading for my back yard?
> <g>
> Linton
>
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_11_2010.html
>
>
> ______________
>
>
> Thumbed On My BlackBerry
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From freequarks at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 17:08:36 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:08:36 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Cause of the current snow
In-Reply-To: <107448.2861.qm@web63203.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <648429.2748.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BLU125-W186538882E5473BF1D1CE8C94E0@phx.gbl>
	<107448.2861.qm@web63203.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a1002111408w5093cc63m5ee7019babf80166@mail.gmail.com>

Yea. But I just wish Montana used the same sun as everyone else. It's
been balmy here and our snowpacks are at record lows.  There is green
grass out my window right now. Seeing bald mountains, unfrozen lakes,
and ice free rivers in Montana in February is a little unnerving. Not
to mention the college students in shorts and tee shirts. (I didn't
mean that how it sounded)

Ahh, but what about meteorites you say?

Here's a link that made the rounds four years ago.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060314170208.htm

As I see it, Tunguska was 1908, and Sikhote-Alin was 1947 so we are
about 24 years overdue for another big trundra melter.

-Martin



On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:55 PM, John higgins <geohiggins at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think the cause of the extremely cold winter is due to the extreme Solar Minimum. The climate on Earth is directly affected by the activities of the Sun. Look into solar cycles, and the effect on climate change, there is more to it than you would think.
>
> John Higgins
>
>


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Feb 11 17:26:11 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:26:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Layers in a Mars Crater Record a History of Changes
Message-ID: <201002112226.o1BMQBc3016810@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-044

Layers in a Mars Crater Record a History of Changes
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
February 11, 2010

PASADENA, Calif. -- Near the center of a Martian crater about the size
of Connecticut, hundreds of exposed rock layers form a mound as tall as
the Rockies and reveal a record of major environmental changes on Mars
billions of years ago.

The history told by this tall parfait of layers inside Gale Crater
matches what has been proposed in recent years as the dominant
planet-wide pattern for early Mars, according to a new report by
geologists using instruments on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter.

"Looking at the layers from the bottom to the top, from the oldest to
the youngest, you see a sequence of changing rocks that resulted from
changes in environmental conditions through time," said Ralph Milliken
of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "This thick
sequence of rocks appears to be showing different steps in the
drying-out of Mars."

Using geological layers to understand stages in the evolution of a
planet's climate has a precedent on Earth. A change about 1.8 billion
years ago in the types of rock layers formed on Earth became a key to
understanding a dramatic change in Earth's ancient atmosphere.

Milliken and two co-authors report in Geophysical Research Letters that
clay minerals, which form under very wet conditions, are concentrated in
layers near the bottom of the Gale stack. Above that, sulfate minerals
are intermixed with the clays. Sulfates form in wet conditions and can
be deposited when the water in which they are dissolved evaporates.
Higher still are sulfate-containing layers without detectable clays. And
at the top is a thick formation of regularly spaced layers bearing no
detectable water-related minerals.

Rock exposures with compositions like various layers of the Gale stack
have been mapped elsewhere on Mars, and researchers, including
Jean-Pierre Bibring of the University of Paris, have proposed a Martian
planetary chronology of clay-producing conditions followed by
sulfate-producing conditions followed by dry conditions. However, Gale
is the first location where a single series of layers has been found to
contain these clues in a clearly defined sequence from older rocks to
younger rocks.

"If you could stand there, you would see this beautiful formation of
Martian sediments laid down in the past, a stratigraphic section that's
more than twice the height of the Grand Canyon, though not as steep,"
said Bradley Thomson of the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics
Laboratory, Laurel, Md. He and John Grotzinger of the California
Institute of Technology in Pasadena are Milliken's co-authors.

NASA selected Gale Crater in 2008 as one of four finalist sites for the
Mars Science Laboratory rover, Curiosity, which has a planned launch in
2011. The finalist sites all have exposures of water-related minerals,
and each has attributes that distinguish it from the others. This new
report is an example of how observations made for evaluating the
landing-site candidates are providing valuable science results even
before the rover mission launches.

Three instruments on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have provided
key data about the layered mound in Gale Crater. Images from the High
Resolution Imaging Science Experiment camera reveal details used to map
hundreds of layers. Using stereo pairs of the images, the U.S.
Geological Survey has generated three-dimensional models used to discern
elevation differences as small as a meter (about a yard). Observations
by the Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer for Mars yielded
information about minerals on the surface. The Context Camera provided
broader-scale images showing how the layers fit geologically into their
surroundings.

Thomson said, "This work demonstrates the synergy of the instruments on
the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. We wouldn't have as complete a picture
if we were missing any of the components."

The mission has been studying Mars since 2006. It has returned more data
from the planet than all other Mars missions combined. More information
about this mission is at http://www.nasa.gov/mro.

Malin Space Science Systems, San Diego, provided and operates the
Context Camera. Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory
provided and operates the Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer.
The University of Arizona Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, Tucson,
operates the High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment, which was built
by Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp., Boulder, Colo.

JPL, a division of Caltech, manages the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter for
NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Lockheed Martin Space
Systems, Denver, is the prime contractor for the project and built the
spacecraft.

Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov

Michael Buckley 240-228-7536
Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory, Laurel, Md.
michael.buckley at jhuapl.edu

Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726
NASA Headquarters, Washington
dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov

2010-044



From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Thu Feb 11 18:12:58 2010
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:12:58 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Seeking info on the Salla Meteorite
Message-ID: <73762D0E1B5F432398A0C7FB530AE20D@Bandli1>

Dear List:

I am doing a short write-up on the Salla meteorite and have found several
old Met-list posts suggesting that Salla may have been a witnessed fall from
the 19th Century. I am looking for any articles or publications that support
this idea or where the idea originally came from. 

Thanks for your help!

-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA?#5765
-----------------------------------------------




From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 18:22:15 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:22:15 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Seeking info on the Salla Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <73762D0E1B5F432398A0C7FB530AE20D@Bandli1>
References: <73762D0E1B5F432398A0C7FB530AE20D@Bandli1>
Message-ID: <e51421551002111522s60cdb16coe26e8ff3370e7588@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mike,

Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites lists 4 known references/papers on the
meteorite.  One is in Meteoritics, one in GCA, one in a Finnish
journal, and another.  You might check those for clues, if you didn't
already.

Best regards,

MikeG

On 2/11/10, Mike Bandli <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
> Dear List:
>
> I am doing a short write-up on the Salla meteorite and have found several
> old Met-list posts suggesting that Salla may have been a witnessed fall from
> the 19th Century. I am looking for any articles or publications that support
> this idea or where the idea originally came from.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA #5765
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 18:59:30 2010
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:59:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	February11, 2010
In-Reply-To: <C8B343C259DF45D9A608F49F03DB16F9@D190TH71>
References: <329017.91001.qm@web113604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<C8B343C259DF45D9A608F49F03DB16F9@D190TH71>
Message-ID: <80659e1a1002111559q6d7eded3t63df03de1a1c56f5@mail.gmail.com>

Mr Hupe, you Rock!    How can I keep up with you? It's not enough
anymore to find a meteorite or two. Now I gotta buy a telescope - a
really big one!




On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Thanks for clarifying that, Richard.
> I just didn't want to imply you guys were slacking off up there! ;^)
> I'd bet good money that Greg was thrilled to get three!
> And hey, thanks again for signing my Alamata Sita.
> That was most kind of you.
> Linton
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 1:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
> February11, 2010
>
>
> Unfortunately for Greg, the night was plagued with a number of problems so
> he didn't get a full night.
>
> The three rocks he got, 2010 CJ1, 2010 CM1 & 2010 CR5 were picked up during
> a 4 hour window where the telescope, software and weather all cooperated.
>
> Linton, 3 new NEOs in one night isn't that much out of the ordinary. We've
> been clouded out much of this year, so I suspect over the next two weeks,
> with the forecast for clear skies (finally) we'll see 5 or more new NEOs
> each and every night.
>
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Full Moon Photography
> IMCA #1081
>
>
> --- On Thu, 2/11/10, Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
>> February 11, 2010
>> To: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 1:33 PM
>> Very cool, Greg!
>> That would have amazing even without finding any NEO's,
>> but to find three? Wow!
>> Glad you got the chance to go. Kudos to Richard!
>> By the way, are any of these heading for my back yard?
>> <g>
>> Linton
>>
>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_11_2010.html
>>
>>
>> ______________
>>
>>
>> Thumbed On My BlackBerry
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 11 19:03:36 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:03:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Cause of the current snow ..... Tunguska?
Message-ID: <351767.5465.qm@web113616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Martin and List,

Thank you for the link about Tunguska event and?how that might be causing global temperatures to rise in recent times. Here is a link on a paper written by Vladimir Shaidurov suggesting that Tunguska might be to blame for global warming.

?
http://www.math.le.ac.uk/RESEARCH/APPLIED/VISITORS/MA-05-15--shaidurov.pdf

Shawn Alan

[meteorite-list] Cause of the current snow
Dark Matter freequarks at gmail.com 
Thu Feb 11 17:08:36 EST 2010 


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Yea. But I just wish Montana used the same sun as everyone else. It's 
been balmy here and our snowpacks are at record lows. There is green 
grass out my window right now. Seeing bald mountains, unfrozen lakes, 
and ice free rivers in Montana in February is a little unnerving. Not 
to mention the college students in shorts and tee shirts. (I didn't 
mean that how it sounded) 

Ahh, but what about meteorites you say? 

Here's a link that made the rounds four years ago. 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060314170208.htm 

As I see it, Tunguska was 1908, and Sikhote-Alin was 1947 so we are 
about 24 years overdue for another big trundra melter. 

-Martin 



On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:55 PM, John higgins <geohiggins at yahoo.com> wrote: 

> I think the cause of the extremely cold winter is due to the extreme Solar Minimum. The climate on Earth is directly affected by the activities of the Sun. Look into solar cycles, and the effect on climate change, there is more to it than you would think. 

> 

> John Higgins 

> 

> 






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?
[meteorite-list] Cause of the current snow
GREG LINDH geeg48 at msn.com 
Thu Feb 11 13:54:40 EST 2010 


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E.P. Grondine, 

Exactly what does your "politically correct" posting about "global warming" have to do with the subject of this List, namely, METEORITES? 


Greg Lindh 



---------------------------------------- 

> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:57:16 -0800 

> From: epgrondine at yahoo.com 

> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

> Subject: [meteorite-list] Cause of the current snow 

> 

> Hi all - 

> 

> http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/01/why-the-us-and-much-of-europe-are-shivering-in-the-cold.ars 

> 

> E.P. Grondine 

> Man and Impact in the Americas 

> 

> 

> 

> ______________________________________________ 

> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 

> Meteorite-list mailing list 

> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 






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From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 11 19:59:24 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:59:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Space rocks land tourists in Sudanese jail
Message-ID: <333750.54818.qm@web113612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

One of the common questions I've heard around The Show in Tucson has been if anyone has an update about these Europeans taken into custody in the Sudan.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/20/2796743.htm

I haven't and no one I spoke to has any info either.

It's now 7 or 8 weeks since they were arrested. Does anyone have any additional information? Does anyone even know their identities?


--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


      


From almitt2 at localnet.com  Thu Feb 11 20:10:29 2010
From: almitt2 at localnet.com (almitt2 at localnet.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:10:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: eBay Auctions Ending 22 hours
In-Reply-To: <953608.85939.qm@web113917.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <953608.85939.qm@web113917.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100211201029.27yx2r3tf7k0kcwk@webmail.localnet.com>

Greetings,

I have a nice selection of meteorites on eBay ending in about 22 hours. 
Something for everyone.

Take a look here:

http://shop.ebay.com/almittmet/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

All my best!!

--AL Mitterling
Mitterling Meteorites



From info at meteorites.com.au  Thu Feb 11 03:16:37 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:16:37 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,
	2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
In-Reply-To: <887528.39860.qm@web54507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <C351FC0306F4432FA5E0CE765D20E13C@DFZN8X81><0F45A549CCA74679972B426F8E8FD8BB@JeffPC><0CD13009-46D5-4C26-BC9E-700B139C60BA@mac.com>
	<887528.39860.qm@web54507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <896ADC6328D54CDB9158ED49C9F40E6F@JeffPC>

Hi all,

Thanks for everyone's input. Firstly, Robert... one of the initial thoughts 
I had was exactly the same in regards to the silver streaks on Ash Creek. 
Maybe it is a related type of feature.

And Mark, you're not really mistaken. Mine appears on the surface of the 
trailing side of the oriented individual. I say surface and not crust 
because it does look like an interior metallic inclusion which is showing 
through and coloured. Gary's awesome pic of his L3 with the interior 
inclusion is very much like mine but on a smaller scale. It could be quite 
possible that they are one and the same thing so maybe it is a result of 
oxidation and not an ablation thing.

Has there been any documentation of metallic inclusions in Buzzard Coulee? 
(i.e. Fe/Ni, FeS, etc) In other falls like Bensour, this was specifically 
mentioned in the classification data. It would seem there are quite a few 
people who have noticed them in Buzzard stones now too.

John's suggestion of Bornite is very interesting. I had never actually heard 
of it before, but it does look VERY much like that. A brilliant iridescent 
blue.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&q=Bornite

When I googled Bornite and meteorites, the Meteorites Knowledge Base came up 
as a hit. It lists it as "terrestrially weathered iron meteorite mineral".

http://www.site.uottawa.ca:4321/meteorites/index.html#bornite

So if this is an oxidation thing as a few have suggested now, I'm wondering 
if it happened on the ground or during ablation in the disturbed wake at the 
back of the stone and in the bottom of an indent?

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee 
Blue Inclusion


I must have been mistaken, I thought somebody was talking about coloration 
on crust and not interior features....

Mark B.
Vail, AZ



----- Original Message ----
From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com>
To: Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au>
Cc: Bernd Pauli <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>; 
meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 7:21:54 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee 
Blue Inclusion

Aloha Jeff, Bernd, et al,

I am at a conference now and have limited access to email, but was informed 
of this interesting anomalous inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee meteorite. 
My friend and partner of the NWA (~L3, W0/1) has identified a similar 
feature in one of my slices. Please have a look at my 20.11g full slice to 
see this blue feature in the middle of a troilite inclusion:

http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/614g/_20.11b.jpg

Because this is from the interior of the meteorite, it should dispel any 
theory of fusion reaction during ablative flight.

gary

On Feb 9, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Jeff Kuyken wrote:

> Hi Bernd & all,
>
> Maybe it's possible but it's about 150X bigger than my Isheyevo 
> Hibonite-bearing CAI or chondrule. Probably too big? Actually, I wish you 
> could see this feature in person Bernd. The best way I can describe it is 
> to say that is looks just like the iridescent blue colour of a Peacocks 
> feather.
>
> I was sent a pic off list by another collector who has a similar smaller 
> feature on a very fresh NWA (~L3, W0/1). There is a brassy yellow one 
> (troilite?) with a smaller blue one like mine next to it. Both look like 
> melted metal on the surface. I know Mark had one other much larger Buzzard 
> with a similar thing too. Has anyone else seen this or know what could 
> cause it?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry & Twink Monrad" 
> <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:18 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RFSPOD - February 9,2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue 
> Inclusion
>
>
>>
>> Subject: RFSPOD - February 9, 2010 Buzzard Coulee Blue Inclusion
>>
>>> Hello Jeff K., Michael J., Zelimir and List,
>>>
>>> I am wondering if this blue metallic inclusion in Jeff's Buzzard Coulee
>>> might be one of these hibonites that Zelimir showed us and that Jeff
>>> Grosman identified for us.
>>>
>>> This made me think of the MUCH-1 and "Blue Angel" inclusions in 
>>> Murchison
>>> (both of them hibonite-bearing aggregates).
>>>
>>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2010.html
>>>
>>> Jeff, sincere congrats on such a fine Buzzard Coulee!
>>>
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Bernd
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html
(808) 640-9161





______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
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http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From info at meteorites.com.au  Fri Feb 12 01:46:00 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:46:00 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] NEO 2010 CR5 - Greg Hupe co-discovery!
In-Reply-To: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702BF3399@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
References: <1098784085-1265893461-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2140850798-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702BF3399@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
Message-ID: <38802E06AD41487CAC933E8CD64C103B@JeffPC>

Congratulations indeed. That's awesome! Great work Greg and Richard!

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matson, Robert D." <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:33 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] NEO 2010 CR5 - Greg Hupe co-discovery!


> Congratulations, Greg, on your NEO codiscovery!  A Minor Planet
> Electronic
> Circular was posted for it a little while ago:
>
> http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/mpec/K10/K10C44.html
>
> Based on the preliminary orbit, this is an earth-crossing (and
> Mars-crossing)
> Apollo asteroid.  At H=22.3, the size is somewhere from 110-190 meters
> depending on how dark the NEO is.
>
> --Rob
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From meteoritefinder at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 02:07:35 2010
From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:07:35 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Web site update/ad
Message-ID: <468bf6051002112307p6b804c01k851f6bd7a193cdd8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All I have added some smaller more affordable Muonionalusta slices
and Brenham Pallasite slices to my site you can see them here at my
whats new page http://www.meteoritefinder.com/whats-new-sale.htm

Of course we have Ebay items for sale as well here
http://shop.ebay.com/flattoprocks/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

and here http://shop.ebay.com/flatop-2/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

Thanks for looking

-- 
Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
www.meteoritefinder.com
     928-753-6825


From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk  Fri Feb 12 03:53:56 2010
From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:53:56 -0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matter Arising - Last Post
References: <5159891.1265908910387.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF8C3@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>

Dear Count and List Members

Thank you for those kind words. A body like the membership of the MetList should be a rich tapestry of many colours and textures, and not a bland, boring monotone. There is a place for all people and voices - long may it continue.

Can I also take the liberty of sending my greetings to your wife Joan. We Scots do get around. The village of Luss is on the shores of Loch Lomond, one of the most beautiful and famous of the Scottish lochs. It was also the setting for many years, and maybe Joan can remember it, of a Scottish Soap Opera called "Take the High Road". You should take the chance to visit and while you are here, feel free to pop your head round my door and say hello. I would be happy to see you and show you the museums collection - you only have to ask.

Best Wishes 

Peter Davidson
Curator of Minerals
 
National Museums Collection Centre
National Museums Scotland
242 West Granton Road
Edinburgh
EH5 1JA
Phone: +44 131 247 4283
p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
www.nms.ac.uk
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net [mailto:countdeiro at earthlink.net] 
Sent: 11 February 2010 17:22
To: Peter Davidson; Meteorite List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Matter Arising - Last Post

Dear Peter and List Members,

As I was the first Listee to post a negative observation of the sctivity depicted in the photos and at the same time identify myself as a teaching member of an organization that is quite often mis-characterized in the main stream media and the halls of academia, I was offended by the draping of a stereotypical coat about my shoulders. It is said that "if the coat fits, then wear it". In this case it does indeed fit as I really should have refrained from criticizing the photos on List and done it privately. 

I was relieved to read Peter's unnecessary mea culpa as he has earned and is entitled to the respect of all who are occupied and are infatuated with meteorites. This List would have been the lesser without his continuing participation. His "kids" and the National Museums Scotland - Mineral Collection are fortunate to have him as Curator.

Scout's honor I will not post off topic.

Sincerely,

Count Guido Deiro
IMCA 3536

P.S. Just one little aside, Peter. I am happily married these 42 years to Joan Marlene Colquhoun, a fair maid of Luss, who has prevailed in getting me to often visit your lush and beautiful land, enjoy the pipes, wear her tartan on occasion and eat haggis...me being an Italian! 

 
 





    

-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Davidson <P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk>
>Sent: Feb 11, 2010 7:37 AM
>To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Matter Arising - Last Post
>
>Dear List Members
>
>When I posted my original message under the title "Matters Arising", I expected a big response and in that respect I have not been disappointed. I would like to thank every one of you that took the trouble to reply. There were a lot of interesting comments and quite a few suggestions, but I will keep it clean.
>What did surprise me, and I don't know why it did, was the overwhelmingly positive response. I would say the between 90 and 95% was positive and supportive. Many of you replied off-list and I have tried to reply to each of you in a like manner, If I have missed anyone out, please forgive me but there are only so many hours in a working-day.
>Following on from the critical messages, I would just like to publically apologise if I caused any offence. I was guilty of utilising some very crass, and inappropriate stereotypes - as a Scot, I am well aware of the many negative stereotypes that exist for us - and I should have used more considered language. This rankles particularly as I am always lecturing (or should that be hectoring) my kids about adopting stereotypes to categorise groups of people. Do as I say, not as I do!
>I hope that with this message, we can draw a line under this topic and can I urge all list members to please, please, please keep your postings on-topic and on-message.
>
>Best Wishes
>
>Peter Davidson
>Curator of Minerals
>?
>National Museums Collection Centre
>National Museums Scotland
>242 West Granton Road
>Edinburgh
>EH5 1JA
>Phone: +44?131 247 4283
>p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
>www.nms.ac.uk
>?
>?
>
>Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker
>
>National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
>This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker

National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.


From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk  Fri Feb 12 04:27:21 2010
From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:27:21 -0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
	granite!
References: <SNT117-W3FEB8BADFB817A4909B3DD24E0@phx.gbl>
	<4hn8n51250b6hv7qobsvo0bkl898jh692a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF8C5@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>

Dear All

It is interesting that Darren should raise this topic now. Yesterday
afternoon (Thursday 11th), I was contacted by the BBC and asked to
comment on this very item and also to say something about the illegal
trade in meteorites.

I also took the opportunity to inform them of the situation in Sudan
regarding the arrest of "illegal" collectors. 

It goes without saying that, as a National Museum, we have to be
absolutely certain that any purchase we make is checked out and that the
vendor has legal title to the object he/she is selling - this goes for
any potential accession whether it is a priceless antique or artefact, a
piece of technology such as an old radio set or railway engine, or a
mineral/meteorite. It would be a disaster if we were knowingly to buy
anything that is in any way "dodgy". The result of this is that we are
no longer approached by sellers or dealers with this type of material.
This means that I am not that knowledgeable on the illegal trade in
meteorites. I know it goes on - I am not blind - but I have no first
hand experience.

What this matter does show is that the media are now picking up on this
trade and raising awareness of it to a new level. Much like they did
with the illegal collecting and trading in fossils and minerals. It will
never stop it, but it does make everyone in the business, or it should,
a little more wary.

Have a great weekend

Peter Davidson
Curator of Minerals
 
National Museums Collection Centre
National Museums Scotland
242 West Granton Road
Edinburgh
EH5 1JA
Phone: +44 131 247 4283
p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
www.nms.ac.uk
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren
Garrison
Sent: 11 February 2010 19:45
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
granite!

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gHt4NoeWwYXIjlcyAaDow
vFEK-FA

Russia nabs meteorite smuggling ring

(AFP) - 7 hours ago

MOSCOW - Amid a huge bounty of contraband goods seized recently at a
Russian
airport, one far-out find floored customs officials: chunks of
meteorite.

"On the customs declaration, the smugglers identified it as granite for
construction and decoration of office space," Larisa Ledovskikh, a
spokeswoman
for customs at Moscow's Domodedovo airport, told AFP on Thursday.

"But our officials could see it was clearly not granite!"

The two smugglers -- who also tried to ship out silver antiques,
fossils,
semi-precious stones, microscopes and old books in the suspect cargo --
were
initially charged with making a false declaration on their customs form.

Only after a three-month investigation did officials discover that the
mystery
lumps were fragments from outer space and the men part of a larger crime
ring
including experts and scientists, Ledovskikh said.

"They were part of an organized criminal gang. They had worked out a
plan in
advance to smuggle out of Russian territory and to the Czech Republic...
two
meteorite chunks, each weighing 100 grams," she said.

The two men were arrested on Sunday and charged with contraband, a
sentence that
carries a maximum of 12 years in prison in Russia.
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker

National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.


From marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl  Fri Feb 12 05:16:18 2010
From: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marco Langbroek)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:16:18 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
Message-ID: <4B752A72.1070007@wanadoo.nl>


Doubts are now being raised about there being any crater or impact damage. See 
Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy blog for a summary:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/11/breaking-mexican-meteorite-impact/

Also, I want to point out right ahead that the suggestion that this was a piece 
of the Russian Kosmos 2421 satellite coming down is NOT correct. See:

http://sattrackcam.blogspot.com/2010/02/mexican-impactfireball-event-is-not-due.html

- Marco

-----
Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek
Dutch Meteor Society (DMS)

e-mail: dms at marcolangbroek.nl
http://www.dmsweb.org
http://www.marcolangbroek.nl
-----


From grf2 at comcast.net  Sat Feb 13 06:46:38 2010
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 06:46:38 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	February11, 2010
In-Reply-To: <747710D4F4274ADDAE0007E190A369A8@D190TH71>
References: <962013.74800.qm@web113604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><01C04072896D471BB183BD72766C095F@Gregor>
	<747710D4F4274ADDAE0007E190A369A8@D190TH71>
Message-ID: <62D29A62D6D447178AB7F4C03713FA80@JerryPCwind7>

The Kid has a talent. Sign him up!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 3:33 PM
To: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
February11, 2010

> Very cool, Greg!
> That would have amazing even without finding any NEO's, but  to find 
> three? Wow!
> Glad you got the chance to go. Kudos to Richard!
> By the way, are any of these heading for my back yard? <g>
> Linton
>
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_11_2010.html
>
>
> ______________
>
>
> Thumbed On My BlackBerry
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From nuuska at dlc.fi  Fri Feb 12 09:13:20 2010
From: nuuska at dlc.fi (Pekka Savolainen)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:13:20 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Seeking info on the Salla Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <73762D0E1B5F432398A0C7FB530AE20D@Bandli1>
References: <73762D0E1B5F432398A0C7FB530AE20D@Bandli1>
Message-ID: <4B756200.8060101@dlc.fi>


http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/docs/mb31.pdf

Jarmo Moilanens english site seem to be under construction,
but at least you can find some pics from the finnish site.

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/docs/mb31.pdf

http://www.somerikko.net/meteoriitit/salla.html

Think, Jarmo may have also the english site, so you can ask
it from him, if you don?t get it, just ask a translation from me.

take care,

pekka s



Mike Bandli kirjoitti:
> Dear List:
>
> I am doing a short write-up on the Salla meteorite and have found several
> old Met-list posts suggesting that Salla may have been a witnessed fall from
> the 19th Century. I am looking for any articles or publications that support
> this idea or where the idea originally came from. 
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA #5765
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archiveshtml
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2681 - Release Date: 02/11/10 09:35:00
>
>   


-- 


Pekka Savolainen

Solar Gems

Jokiharjuntie 4
FI-71330
Rasala
FINLAND

member of IMCA #5776

www.imca.cc



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 09:26:47 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:26:47 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
In-Reply-To: <4B752A72.1070007@wanadoo.nl>
References: <4B752A72.1070007@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <e51421551002120626w514ab4a7r11a1e744682e29b7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

On another List, I heard a local man report that a large fireball was
seen in rural Mexico in April of 2009.  According to his report,
meteorites were found, including one which is embedded in a tree.
But, meaningful details were sketchy.  The man who reported it claimed
that he was going to the impact site soon and would report back.

Best regards,

MikeG


On 2/12/10, Marco Langbroek <marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>
> Doubts are now being raised about there being any crater or impact damage.
> See
> Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy blog for a summary:
>
> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/11/breaking-mexican-meteorite-impact/
>
> Also, I want to point out right ahead that the suggestion that this was a
> piece
> of the Russian Kosmos 2421 satellite coming down is NOT correct. See:
>
> http://sattrackcam.blogspot.com/2010/02/mexican-impactfireball-event-is-not-due.html
>
> - Marco
>
> -----
> Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek
> Dutch Meteor Society (DMS)
>
> e-mail: dms at marcolangbroek.nl
> http://www.dmsweb.org
> http://www.marcolangbroek.nl
> -----
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk  Fri Feb 12 09:47:23 2010
From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:47:23 -0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
	granite!
References: <SNT117-W3FEB8BADFB817A4909B3DD24E0@phx.gbl>
	<4hn8n51250b6hv7qobsvo0bkl898jh692a@4ax.com>
	<D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF8C5@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>
	<5460F1A3-FE5D-49FC-9233-595EF3773A0E@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF8CA@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>

Darryl

Thanks for the message. As it happens we have no material from NWA at
all. When I took over the collection, I quickly discovered that there
was no official acquisition policy for the Museum's meteorite
collection. Most large museums have policies like this which define
specific areas of interest in which curators concentrate their
acquisition activities. This usually, not unreasonably, means Scottish
material - but not exclusively so. Non-Scottish material can be acquired
for a large number of very good reasons. 

One of the tasks I have set myself for the next year is to draw up an
official acquisition policy for our meteorite collection. This will
focus on two areas, 1) Scottish material and 2) significant gaps in the
systematic collection, for instance Lunars (we have none) and NWA's

I attend a number of Mineral Shows every year and in 2009 I was
fortunate to attend the Ensisheim Show. At these shows I take the
opportunity to ask dealers and collectors about the market. At one of
these shows, I was alerted by a dealer, who is also now a good friend,
about the dangers of the NWA market. With this in mind, I have become a
little wary about making and purchases or recommendations. If the time
comes when I can begin to make purchases for the collection, I will rely
heavily on the good a advice and experience of those dealers and
collectors I have come to trust.

Have a great weekend

Peter Davidson
Curator of Minerals
 
National Museums Collection Centre
National Museums Scotland
242 West Granton Road
Edinburgh
EH5 1JA
Phone: +44 131 247 4283
p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
www.nms.ac.uk
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Darryl Pitt [mailto:darryl at dof3.com] 
Sent: 12 February 2010 14:27
To: Peter Davidson
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
granite!



Greetings Peter,

Out of curiosity, does your national collection include NWAs?

All best / Darryl



On Feb 12, 2010, at 4:27 AM, Peter Davidson wrote:

> Dear All
>
> It is interesting that Darren should raise this topic now. Yesterday
> afternoon (Thursday 11th), I was contacted by the BBC and asked to
> comment on this very item and also to say something about the illegal
> trade in meteorites.
>
> I also took the opportunity to inform them of the situation in Sudan
> regarding the arrest of "illegal" collectors.
>
> It goes without saying that, as a National Museum, we have to be
> absolutely certain that any purchase we make is checked out and that  
> the
> vendor has legal title to the object he/she is selling - this goes for
> any potential accession whether it is a priceless antique or  
> artefact, a
> piece of technology such as an old radio set or railway engine, or a
> mineral/meteorite. It would be a disaster if we were knowingly to buy
> anything that is in any way "dodgy". The result of this is that we are
> no longer approached by sellers or dealers with this type of material.
> This means that I am not that knowledgeable on the illegal trade in
> meteorites. I know it goes on - I am not blind - but I have no first
> hand experience.
>
> What this matter does show is that the media are now picking up on  
> this
> trade and raising awareness of it to a new level. Much like they did
> with the illegal collecting and trading in fossils and minerals. It  
> will
> never stop it, but it does make everyone in the business, or it  
> should,
> a little more wary.
>
> Have a great weekend
>
> Peter Davidson
> Curator of Minerals
>
> National Museums Collection Centre
> National Museums Scotland
> 242 West Granton Road
> Edinburgh
> EH5 1JA
> Phone: +44 131 247 4283
> p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
> www.nms.ac.uk
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of  
> Darren
> Garrison
> Sent: 11 February 2010 19:45
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
> granite!
>
>
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gHt4NoeWwYXIjlcyAaDow
> vFEK-FA
>
> Russia nabs meteorite smuggling ring
>
> (AFP) - 7 hours ago
>
> MOSCOW - Amid a huge bounty of contraband goods seized recently at a
> Russian
> airport, one far-out find floored customs officials: chunks of
> meteorite.
>
> "On the customs declaration, the smugglers identified it as granite  
> for
> construction and decoration of office space," Larisa Ledovskikh, a
> spokeswoman
> for customs at Moscow's Domodedovo airport, told AFP on Thursday.
>
> "But our officials could see it was clearly not granite!"
>
> The two smugglers -- who also tried to ship out silver antiques,
> fossils,
> semi-precious stones, microscopes and old books in the suspect cargo  
> --
> were
> initially charged with making a false declaration on their customs  
> form.
>
> Only after a three-month investigation did officials discover that the
> mystery
> lumps were fragments from outer space and the men part of a larger  
> crime
> ring
> including experts and scientists, Ledovskikh said.
>
> "They were part of an organized criminal gang. They had worked out a
> plan in
> advance to smuggle out of Russian territory and to the Czech  
> Republic...
> two
> meteorite chunks, each weighing 100 grams," she said.
>
> The two men were arrested on Sunday and charged with contraband, a
> sentence that
> carries a maximum of 12 years in prison in Russia.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts.  
> National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March.
www.nms.ac.uk/maker
>
> National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
> This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are  
> not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from  
> your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message  
> are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of  
> National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data  
> Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002.  
> No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your  
> systems or data by this message.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker

National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.


From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk  Fri Feb 12 10:14:46 2010
From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:14:46 -0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
	granite!
References: <20100212100243.O5PDL.432870.imail@fed1rmwml43>
Message-ID: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF8CC@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>

Carl and Debbie

I realise that I may have been a bit cryptic in making this statement.
But even I, comparative newcomer though I am, know a bit about the whole
Algeria/Morocco/Libya contraband trade in meteorites. I have read a few
articles on the Web, and spoken to dealers and collectors. As the
representative of a National Museum, in other words a state-funded and
run organisation, I need to absolutely sure that I do not, no matter how
good the deal, buy or condone illegal collecting of meteorites (or
indeed minerals and fossils). I am sure, indeed I know, the same goes
for the big US Museums like the Smithsonian and the AMNH.

Regards

Peter Davidson
Curator of Minerals
 
National Museums Collection Centre
National Museums Scotland
242 West Granton Road
Edinburgh
EH5 1JA
Phone: +44 131 247 4283
p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
www.nms.ac.uk
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: cdtucson at cox.net [mailto:cdtucson at cox.net] 
Sent: 12 February 2010 15:03
To: Peter Davidson
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
granite!

Peter,
With all due respect to you. What on Earth is this supposed to mean? 
"dangers of the NWA market."?
Martin is going to have a field day with this statement.
This advise coming from a dealer. I can only presume it was not a NWA
dealer that gave you such advise? 
It has been my life-long experience in business that tells me , people
only tend to bad mouth people they don't do business with. It's really
that simple. 
But again I ask. What is wrong with NWA material from your perspective? 
Thank you. 
Carl

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Peter Davidson <P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk> wrote: 
> Darryl
> 
> Thanks for the message. As it happens we have no material from NWA at
> all. When I took over the collection, I quickly discovered that there
> was no official acquisition policy for the Museum's meteorite
> collection. Most large museums have policies like this which define
> specific areas of interest in which curators concentrate their
> acquisition activities. This usually, not unreasonably, means Scottish
> material - but not exclusively so. Non-Scottish material can be
acquired
> for a large number of very good reasons. 
> 
> One of the tasks I have set myself for the next year is to draw up an
> official acquisition policy for our meteorite collection. This will
> focus on two areas, 1) Scottish material and 2) significant gaps in
the
> systematic collection, for instance Lunars (we have none) and NWA's
> 
> I attend a number of Mineral Shows every year and in 2009 I was
> fortunate to attend the Ensisheim Show. At these shows I take the
> opportunity to ask dealers and collectors about the market. At one of
> these shows, I was alerted by a dealer, who is also now a good friend,
> about the dangers of the NWA market. With this in mind, I have become
a
> little wary about making and purchases or recommendations. If the time
> comes when I can begin to make purchases for the collection, I will
rely
> heavily on the good a advice and experience of those dealers and
> collectors I have come to trust.
> 
> Have a great weekend
> 
> Peter Davidson
> Curator of Minerals
>  
> National Museums Collection Centre
> National Museums Scotland
> 242 West Granton Road
> Edinburgh
> EH5 1JA
> Phone: +44 131 247 4283
> p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
> www.nms.ac.uk
>  
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darryl Pitt [mailto:darryl at dof3.com] 
> Sent: 12 February 2010 14:27
> To: Peter Davidson
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
> granite!
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings Peter,
> 
> Out of curiosity, does your national collection include NWAs?
> 
> All best / Darryl
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 12, 2010, at 4:27 AM, Peter Davidson wrote:
> 
> > Dear All
> >
> > It is interesting that Darren should raise this topic now. Yesterday
> > afternoon (Thursday 11th), I was contacted by the BBC and asked to
> > comment on this very item and also to say something about the
illegal
> > trade in meteorites.
> >
> > I also took the opportunity to inform them of the situation in Sudan
> > regarding the arrest of "illegal" collectors.
> >
> > It goes without saying that, as a National Museum, we have to be
> > absolutely certain that any purchase we make is checked out and that

> > the
> > vendor has legal title to the object he/she is selling - this goes
for
> > any potential accession whether it is a priceless antique or  
> > artefact, a
> > piece of technology such as an old radio set or railway engine, or a
> > mineral/meteorite. It would be a disaster if we were knowingly to
buy
> > anything that is in any way "dodgy". The result of this is that we
are
> > no longer approached by sellers or dealers with this type of
material.
> > This means that I am not that knowledgeable on the illegal trade in
> > meteorites. I know it goes on - I am not blind - but I have no first
> > hand experience.
> >
> > What this matter does show is that the media are now picking up on  
> > this
> > trade and raising awareness of it to a new level. Much like they did
> > with the illegal collecting and trading in fossils and minerals. It

> > will
> > never stop it, but it does make everyone in the business, or it  
> > should,
> > a little more wary.
> >
> > Have a great weekend
> >
> > Peter Davidson
> > Curator of Minerals
> >
> > National Museums Collection Centre
> > National Museums Scotland
> > 242 West Granton Road
> > Edinburgh
> > EH5 1JA
> > Phone: +44 131 247 4283
> > p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
> > www.nms.ac.uk
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of  
> > Darren
> > Garrison
> > Sent: 11 February 2010 19:45
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
> > granite!
> >
> >
>
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gHt4NoeWwYXIjlcyAaDow
> > vFEK-FA
> >
> > Russia nabs meteorite smuggling ring
> >
> > (AFP) - 7 hours ago
> >
> > MOSCOW - Amid a huge bounty of contraband goods seized recently at a
> > Russian
> > airport, one far-out find floored customs officials: chunks of
> > meteorite.
> >
> > "On the customs declaration, the smugglers identified it as granite

> > for
> > construction and decoration of office space," Larisa Ledovskikh, a
> > spokeswoman
> > for customs at Moscow's Domodedovo airport, told AFP on Thursday.
> >
> > "But our officials could see it was clearly not granite!"
> >
> > The two smugglers -- who also tried to ship out silver antiques,
> > fossils,
> > semi-precious stones, microscopes and old books in the suspect cargo

> > --
> > were
> > initially charged with making a false declaration on their customs  
> > form.
> >
> > Only after a three-month investigation did officials discover that
the
> > mystery
> > lumps were fragments from outer space and the men part of a larger  
> > crime
> > ring
> > including experts and scientists, Ledovskikh said.
> >
> > "They were part of an organized criminal gang. They had worked out a
> > plan in
> > advance to smuggle out of Russian territory and to the Czech  
> > Republic...
> > two
> > meteorite chunks, each weighing 100 grams," she said.
> >
> > The two men were arrested on Sunday and charged with contraband, a
> > sentence that
> > carries a maximum of 12 years in prison in Russia.
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts.  
> > National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March.
> www.nms.ac.uk/maker
> >
> > National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
> > This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are

> > not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from

> > your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message  
> > are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of  
> > National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data  
> > Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002.

> > No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your  
> > systems or data by this message.
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National
Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker
> 
> National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
> This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are
not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from
your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are
those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National
Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act
1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is
accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this
message.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Meet Your Maker, the creative minds behind Scotland's crafts. National Museum of Scotland, 29 January - 14 March. www.nms.ac.uk/maker

National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.


From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 12 10:24:40 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:24:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
	granite!
In-Reply-To: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF8CA@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>
References: <SNT117-W3FEB8BADFB817A4909B3DD24E0@phx.gbl>
	<4hn8n51250b6hv7qobsvo0bkl898jh692a@4ax.com>
	<D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF8C5@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>
	<5460F1A3-FE5D-49FC-9233-595EF3773A0E@dof3.com>
	<D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E271010EF8CA@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>
Message-ID: <579411.74488.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Peter and List Members,

NWA material has been thoroughly checked out by several museums and does not present any problem whatsoever.  The Royal Ontario Museum did their homework and now has a world class collection of NWA material because of it, while other museums have missed out on outstanding examples.  The Moroccan consulate has been contacted several times and has always given the green light on meteorites. A conference was held in Casablanca and a consensuses was taken about Moroccan export laws in regards to meteorites. The consensus was that there are no laws that would prevent export. 

In an ever restrictive market, NWA is one of the last remaining high points where meteorites can be legally exported.  The ongoing press that reports highly inflated prices could change all of this so be careful when communicating with them.   I think it best to concentrate on the scientific value rather than the treasure value. If countries perceive there is great monetary value attached to meteorites, it won't be long before they are off limits.  


Best Regards,

Adam


From octahedrite at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 10:25:29 2010
From: octahedrite at gmail.com (Sans Saharacis)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:25:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] TEST
Message-ID: <f019247f1002120725x73a591c1o8de7f57de42bc1d0@mail.gmail.com>

test test 123 check check


From octahedrite at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 11:05:21 2010
From: octahedrite at gmail.com (Sans Saharacis)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:05:21 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Listory of the World, Part One
Message-ID: <f019247f1002120805i7c0df076r7afa68206d5df16a@mail.gmail.com>

The Listory of the World, Part One.


In the beginning, there was darkness and there were no meteorites.

Then, a voice split the darkness and it said - "let there be light."

An infinite lighted display case appeared, and it glowed like a
beacon, banishing the darkness.

The display case appeared lonely, so the voice said "let there be meteorites."

And the display case was filled with a bounty of chondrites, irons,
and planetaries, lovely and pristine.

But still the display and its contents were lonely and incomplete.

So, the voice said "let there be collectors."

And a throng appeared of men, women and creatures.  The throng
gathered around the display case and they did worship it.

The throng spoke in all languages and they raised praise unto the
meteorites, but they could not communicate with each other.

At last, the voice said "let there be the Met List"

And suddenly, the voices of the meteorite worshippers could be heard
and understood by all of the peoples around the world.

The collectors praised the creator and they gave blessings unto his name - Art.

Many aeons passed and the world of the List was peaceful and all
collectors co-existed in harmony.

Over the long years, there arose a great community of many colors and
customs, and they did thrive.

Amongst the community there came scribes and the spirit of Art went
into them and told them to witness the collectors.

The spirit told the scribes to take account of the peoples of the List
and know them, and to label them, and to weigh them.

The spirit commanded - "You will put this account of the peoples to
writing, so that the newbies may understand the ways of the List."

And so the scribes descended deep into the abyss of the List Archives
and they did read, and read, and read.

The scribes learned the ways of the multitude of peoples on the List
and this is their story.



Hereafter is the record of the First Scribe : Aerolitis Onepointoh

The first tribe of the List is the Ancients.  They existed from the
moment of the List creation.  They are old, wise, wealthy, and
loquacious.

The Ancients existed in the days before the hot deserts and internets
- they did write letters, exchange paper catalogues and send checks.

After many centuries, the Ancients became disquieted and they yearned
for lunaites and martians.  They called out for Art.

But Art was not moved, and the Ancients continued to seek guidance, so
a prophet arose among them and his name was The Hagg.

The Hagg was mighty and his locks put Samson's to shame - he traversed
the Earth and found many meteorites, which he gave glory to.

In time, the Hagg's display case rivaled that of the creator, so a
dark power rose in opposition to him - to maintain universal balance.

This dark power was wealthy and his reach was vast.  His mouth spewed
blasphemies, smoke, and falsehoods.  His collection grew.

The Ancients became disquieted again and they began to make noise on
the List - denouncing the dark one they called Kasper.  War stirred.

Destiny brought the Hagg and the Kasper together on Nullarbor Plain
and they fought for dominion over meteorites.  The ground shook and
bolides shot the sky.

In the end, the Hagg emerged victorious and the Kasper was cast down
into that infernal pit - eBay.  The Ancients rejoiced and the List was
prosperous.

But intrigues and machinations were afoot in the deserts of Mother
Africa, and the List would be caught unaware by a new tribe.



Hereafter is the record of the Second Scribe : Sans Saharacis

In time, while the Ancients were distracted by petrological
differences, a new tribe quietly arose in the desert dunes of
Northwest Africa.

This new tribe was skilled in the arts of exchange, barter, blather,
and busk.  And they used the desert peoples as their agents to comb
the dunes for meteorites.

The new tribe would inspect the bounty of the dunes and select the
finest and the most exotic for inclusion in the great display case.

In time, this new tribe became rich with meteorites and they became
known to the Ancients of the List, who greeted them warily but warmly.

The new tribe had powerful names which were alien - Former,
Heeyoopais, and others such as Arnold Alpha, Arnold Omega, and
Cootingspam.

The Ancients were then surprised by the great invasion wave of
planetaries, achondrites, anomalous irons and ungrouped carbos, and
hammers.

Indeed, the Institutions themselves opened their arms and an orgy of
wicked exchange took place as great historical artifacts were ceded
for dune rocks.

All was upset.  Up was down, down was up, rare was common and Ancients
wept as their collections were topsie-turvied.  The List rang with
laments.

In their despair, the Ancients accepted this new tribe of
Quasi-Saharans and the great display cases swelled to new epic
proportions.  A new age was born.

>From their castles on high, the Former, the Heeyoopais and their
cohort took their place amongst the Ancients and dwelled with them,
and in time, ruled them.

In time, the Hagg and his elder kindred (including the Gnew, the
Shoewade, and others) retired to the West Lands, out of time and reach
of normal List men.

The Former and Heeyoopais grew more powerful.  They spread mighei,
irons, kakangaris, enstatites, gao, and mangos in syrup.

Indeed, the Ancients, Formers, Heeyoopais and their cohort unified
into one tribe - the Old School.  For a time, there was prosperity.

The Old School were mighty and they could walk with impunity in the
infernal lands of eBay and there they laid down their seed.

Kasper laughing spread his wings....


From cdtucson at cox.net  Fri Feb 12 11:50:54 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:50:54 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Listory of the World, Part One
In-Reply-To: <f019247f1002120805i7c0df076r7afa68206d5df16a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100212115054.1TWHC.434755.imail@fed1rmwml43>

I'll have what she's having. 
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Sans Saharacis <octahedrite at gmail.com> wrote: 
> The Listory of the World, Part One.
> 
> 
> In the beginning, there was darkness and there were no meteorites.
> 
> Then, a voice split the darkness and it said - "let there be light."
> 
> An infinite lighted display case appeared, and it glowed like a
> beacon, banishing the darkness.
> 
> The display case appeared lonely, so the voice said "let there be meteorites."
> 
> And the display case was filled with a bounty of chondrites, irons,
> and planetaries, lovely and pristine.
> 
> But still the display and its contents were lonely and incomplete.
> 
> So, the voice said "let there be collectors."
> 
> And a throng appeared of men, women and creatures.  The throng
> gathered around the display case and they did worship it.
> 
> The throng spoke in all languages and they raised praise unto the
> meteorites, but they could not communicate with each other.
> 
> At last, the voice said "let there be the Met List"
> 
> And suddenly, the voices of the meteorite worshippers could be heard
> and understood by all of the peoples around the world.
> 
> The collectors praised the creator and they gave blessings unto his name - Art.
> 
> Many aeons passed and the world of the List was peaceful and all
> collectors co-existed in harmony.
> 
> Over the long years, there arose a great community of many colors and
> customs, and they did thrive.
> 
> Amongst the community there came scribes and the spirit of Art went
> into them and told them to witness the collectors.
> 
> The spirit told the scribes to take account of the peoples of the List
> and know them, and to label them, and to weigh them.
> 
> The spirit commanded - "You will put this account of the peoples to
> writing, so that the newbies may understand the ways of the List."
> 
> And so the scribes descended deep into the abyss of the List Archives
> and they did read, and read, and read.
> 
> The scribes learned the ways of the multitude of peoples on the List
> and this is their story.
> 
> 
> 
> Hereafter is the record of the First Scribe : Aerolitis Onepointoh
> 
> The first tribe of the List is the Ancients.  They existed from the
> moment of the List creation.  They are old, wise, wealthy, and
> loquacious.
> 
> The Ancients existed in the days before the hot deserts and internets
> - they did write letters, exchange paper catalogues and send checks.
> 
> After many centuries, the Ancients became disquieted and they yearned
> for lunaites and martians.  They called out for Art.
> 
> But Art was not moved, and the Ancients continued to seek guidance, so
> a prophet arose among them and his name was The Hagg.
> 
> The Hagg was mighty and his locks put Samson's to shame - he traversed
> the Earth and found many meteorites, which he gave glory to.
> 
> In time, the Hagg's display case rivaled that of the creator, so a
> dark power rose in opposition to him - to maintain universal balance.
> 
> This dark power was wealthy and his reach was vast.  His mouth spewed
> blasphemies, smoke, and falsehoods.  His collection grew.
> 
> The Ancients became disquieted again and they began to make noise on
> the List - denouncing the dark one they called Kasper.  War stirred.
> 
> Destiny brought the Hagg and the Kasper together on Nullarbor Plain
> and they fought for dominion over meteorites.  The ground shook and
> bolides shot the sky.
> 
> In the end, the Hagg emerged victorious and the Kasper was cast down
> into that infernal pit - eBay.  The Ancients rejoiced and the List was
> prosperous.
> 
> But intrigues and machinations were afoot in the deserts of Mother
> Africa, and the List would be caught unaware by a new tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> Hereafter is the record of the Second Scribe : Sans Saharacis
> 
> In time, while the Ancients were distracted by petrological
> differences, a new tribe quietly arose in the desert dunes of
> Northwest Africa.
> 
> This new tribe was skilled in the arts of exchange, barter, blather,
> and busk.  And they used the desert peoples as their agents to comb
> the dunes for meteorites.
> 
> The new tribe would inspect the bounty of the dunes and select the
> finest and the most exotic for inclusion in the great display case.
> 
> In time, this new tribe became rich with meteorites and they became
> known to the Ancients of the List, who greeted them warily but warmly.
> 
> The new tribe had powerful names which were alien - Former,
> Heeyoopais, and others such as Arnold Alpha, Arnold Omega, and
> Cootingspam.
> 
> The Ancients were then surprised by the great invasion wave of
> planetaries, achondrites, anomalous irons and ungrouped carbos, and
> hammers.
> 
> Indeed, the Institutions themselves opened their arms and an orgy of
> wicked exchange took place as great historical artifacts were ceded
> for dune rocks.
> 
> All was upset.  Up was down, down was up, rare was common and Ancients
> wept as their collections were topsie-turvied.  The List rang with
> laments.
> 
> In their despair, the Ancients accepted this new tribe of
> Quasi-Saharans and the great display cases swelled to new epic
> proportions.  A new age was born.
> 
> >From their castles on high, the Former, the Heeyoopais and their
> cohort took their place amongst the Ancients and dwelled with them,
> and in time, ruled them.
> 
> In time, the Hagg and his elder kindred (including the Gnew, the
> Shoewade, and others) retired to the West Lands, out of time and reach
> of normal List men.
> 
> The Former and Heeyoopais grew more powerful.  They spread mighei,
> irons, kakangaris, enstatites, gao, and mangos in syrup.
> 
> Indeed, the Ancients, Formers, Heeyoopais and their cohort unified
> into one tribe - the Old School.  For a time, there was prosperity.
> 
> The Old School were mighty and they could walk with impunity in the
> infernal lands of eBay and there they laid down their seed.
> 
> Kasper laughing spread his wings....
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:33:18 2010
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:33:18 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
	granite!
Message-ID: <COL108-W176E60CA1C25D6E5195D489B4D0@phx.gbl>


Hi Adam, Carl, Peter, All,

That's strange. This is the second time in three weeks I've heard the NWAs were illegal. At least I think what was meant was the unclassified NWAs are. Adam, would that make any difference?

Carl2


Adam wrote:
>NWA material has been thoroughly checked out by several museums and does not
present any problem whatsoever...

Carl E. wrote:
>With all due respect to you. What on Earth is this supposed to mean?
"dangers of the NWA market."?...



 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/

From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 12 13:18:53 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:18:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
	granite!
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W176E60CA1C25D6E5195D489B4D0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W176E60CA1C25D6E5195D489B4D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <988641.12522.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It makes no difference whatsoever whether a meteorite is classified or not when originating from Northwest Africa as far as legalities go. People who spread the rumor that the export of meteorites from Morocco are illegal seem to have an agenda. A dealer once tried to make it so you needed a special permit but this failed. I believe this was to get an exclusive on material coming out of NWA as this would have served as an effective roadblock to others.

The truth is simple:  It is completely legal to obtain meteorites from Morocco, period!

All the best,

Adam




  



----- Original Message ----
From: Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 9:33:18 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for granite!


Hi Adam, Carl, Peter, All,

That's strange. This is the second time in three weeks I've heard the NWAs were illegal. At least I think what was meant was the unclassified NWAs are. Adam, would that make any difference?

Carl2


Adam wrote:
>NWA material has been thoroughly checked out by several museums and does not
present any problem whatsoever...

Carl E. wrote:
>With all due respect to you. What on Earth is this supposed to mean?
"dangers of the NWA market."?...



                          
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
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Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Fri Feb 12 13:49:57 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:49:57 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
In-Reply-To: <927118.80541.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <927118.80541.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B75A2D5.4020205@meteoritesusa.com>

Any word on the "crater"? There's no new news on it other than to 
thought it was a Russian spy satellite crashing to Earth, and then 
another report supposedly ruled that out. Other reports are saying it 
never happened and there's no seismic data suggesting an event of this 
magnitude.

Any ideas, news?

Regards,
Eric


On 2/11/2010 1:04 PM, Richard Kowalski wrote:
> Interesting that reports of a 30 meter crater was created, but USGS real time earthquake reporting doesn't show any event near the reported impact site...
>
> One would imagine such an impact would have set off the seismometers, no?
>
> Patiently waiting for video...
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Full Moon Photography
> IMCA #1081
>
>
> --- On Thu, 2/11/10, Darren Garrison<cynapse at charter.net>  wrote:
>
>    
>> From: Darren Garrison<cynapse at charter.net>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:41 PM
>> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/11/breaking-mexican-meteorite-impact/
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>      
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


From geoking at notkin.net  Fri Feb 12 14:22:45 2010
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:22:45 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson '10 + Raise a Glass for Sikhote-Alin + [AD]
Message-ID: <88814197-F3F7-43A4-8DA5-192B68EBE66F@notkin.net>

Dear Sikhote-Alin:

Happy birthday to my all-time favorite meteorite. 63 years old today  
and not looking a day older than 4.6 billion.

For those of you still in Tucson, please stop by our room this evening  
around 6 pm for a wine and cheese toast to that most lovely of IIAB  
irons:

http://www.aerolite.org/events/tucson/tucson-meteorite-dealer.htm


Anne Black and I will begin the awesome task of packing up our stock  
sometime tomorrow afternoon, but we are still open for business, so  
it's your last chance to take an Impactika / Aerolite meteorite home  
with you. And I am in a dealing mood  : )  so don't miss out on a  
great bargain.

We have lovely full slices of the new Coffeyville, KS find at only  
$1.80/gram, a stunning new LL3.8 with dual lithology, a new CV3 at a  
bargain price, Anne is the exclusive vendor for the amazing new  
Almahat Sitta, and -- of course -- lots and lots of beautiful Sikhote- 
Alins, Monnig and AML pieces. Oh, and I forgot to mention the Niniger  
Canyon Diablos with original numbers  : )

Stop by and say hello or goodbye.


Cheers from us,

Geoff & Anne
Aerolite - Impactika
Room 230
InnSuites / Hotel Tucson City Center

LAST SHOW DAY IS SATURDAY


From darryl at dof3.com  Fri Feb 12 14:04:55 2010
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:04:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
	granite!
In-Reply-To: <988641.12522.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <COL108-W176E60CA1C25D6E5195D489B4D0@phx.gbl>
	<988641.12522.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0B2FCC2D-75AE-4E4F-BB06-7A5B0B9ED196@dof3.com>


Hi Adam....

Hoping all is well...

If the issue below was as clear-cut as suggested, why then does  
Smithsonian policy prohibit the acquisition of planetary NWAs?   My  
impression, and I could be mistaken, is that the country of export  
(Morocco) is less relevant than the countries in the NWA corridor from  
where said objects were first recovered.

Anyway.....

All best / Darryl

========



On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:

> It makes no difference whatsoever whether a meteorite is classified  
> or not when originating from Northwest Africa as far as legalities  
> go. People who spread the rumor that the export of meteorites from  
> Morocco are illegal seem to have an agenda. A dealer once tried to  
> make it so you needed a special permit but this failed. I believe  
> this was to get an exclusive on material coming out of NWA as this  
> would have served as an effective roadblock to others.
>
> The truth is simple:  It is completely legal to obtain meteorites  
> from Morocco, period!
>
> All the best,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 9:33:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them  
> for granite!
>
>
> Hi Adam, Carl, Peter, All,
>
> That's strange. This is the second time in three weeks I've heard  
> the NWAs were illegal. At least I think what was meant was the  
> unclassified NWAs are. Adam, would that make any difference?
>
> Carl2
>
>
> Adam wrote:
>> NWA material has been thoroughly checked out by several museums and  
>> does not
> present any problem whatsoever...
>
> Carl E. wrote:
>> With all due respect to you. What on Earth is this supposed to mean?
> "dangers of the NWA market."?...
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 12 14:32:54 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:32:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
	granite!
In-Reply-To: <0B2FCC2D-75AE-4E4F-BB06-7A5B0B9ED196@dof3.com>
References: <COL108-W176E60CA1C25D6E5195D489B4D0@phx.gbl>
	<988641.12522.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<0B2FCC2D-75AE-4E4F-BB06-7A5B0B9ED196@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <798299.9374.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Darryl and List,

I do not know why the Smithsonian seems to have a problem with NWA, you will have to ask them.  I do know they have accepted some NWA material into there collection as a donation.  I asked two different curators and got two varying opinions nether of which suggested they were illegal.  It may be that they are overly cautious, cannot find any laws regarding them or simply listen to rumors. A simple call to the Moroccan embassy should straighten it out.

Best Regards,

Adam





----- Original Message ----
From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
To: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
Cc: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 11:04:55 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for granite!


Hi Adam....

Hoping all is well...

If the issue below was as clear-cut as suggested, why then does Smithsonian policy prohibit the acquisition of planetary NWAs?   My impression, and I could be mistaken, is that the country of export (Morocco) is less relevant than the countries in the NWA corridor from where said objects were first recovered.

Anyway.....

All best / Darryl

========



On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:

> It makes no difference whatsoever whether a meteorite is classified or not when originating from Northwest Africa as far as legalities go. People who spread the rumor that the export of meteorites from Morocco are illegal seem to have an agenda. A dealer once tried to make it so you needed a special permit but this failed. I believe this was to get an exclusive on material coming out of NWA as this would have served as an effective roadblock to others.
> 
> The truth is simple:  It is completely legal to obtain meteorites from Morocco, period!
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 9:33:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for granite!
> 
> 
> Hi Adam, Carl, Peter, All,
> 
> That's strange. This is the second time in three weeks I've heard the NWAs were illegal. At least I think what was meant was the unclassified NWAs are. Adam, would that make any difference?
> 
> Carl2
> 
> 
> Adam wrote:
>> NWA material has been thoroughly checked out by several museums and does not
> present any problem whatsoever...
> 
> Carl E. wrote:
>> With all due respect to you. What on Earth is this supposed to mean?
> "dangers of the NWA market."?...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From wahlperry at aol.com  Fri Feb 12 14:30:27 2010
From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:30:27 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nevada Meteorites Hunt page update " Driving
 Across Texas with nowhere to go."
Message-ID: <8CC7A30F7244E1C-30C4-3A7B@webmail-m074.sysops.aol.com>

Hi List,

I've added a new story on my web site under the Meteorite Hunts page. 
"Driving across Texas with nowhere to go"  It is one of my hunting 
trips with Rob Reisener and Skip Wilson. As I get time, I will adding a 
few more meteorite hunting stories.

Thanks,

Sonny

http://www.nevadameteorites.com/nevadameteorites/METEORITE_HUNTS.html



www.nevadameteorites.com



From darryl at dof3.com  Fri Feb 12 14:47:48 2010
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:47:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
	granite!
In-Reply-To: <798299.9374.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <COL108-W176E60CA1C25D6E5195D489B4D0@phx.gbl>
	<988641.12522.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<0B2FCC2D-75AE-4E4F-BB06-7A5B0B9ED196@dof3.com>
	<798299.9374.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C8485BF-265F-4DEA-830F-8ECAA5928EC7@dof3.com>



Mmhmm....I highly doubt the Smithsonian is unable to make a  
determination of law or conducts business by prevailing rumors.

Anyway......

Good weekend / d,


On Feb 12, 2010, at 2:32 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:

> Hi Darryl and List,
>
> I do not know why the Smithsonian seems to have a problem with NWA,  
> you will have to ask them.  I do know they have accepted some NWA  
> material into there collection as a donation.  I asked two different  
> curators and got two varying opinions nether of which suggested they  
> were illegal.  It may be that they are overly cautious, cannot find  
> any laws regarding them or simply listen to rumors. A simple call to  
> the Moroccan embassy should straighten it out.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> To: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 11:04:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them  
> for granite!
>
>
> Hi Adam....
>
> Hoping all is well...
>
> If the issue below was as clear-cut as suggested, why then does  
> Smithsonian policy prohibit the acquisition of planetary NWAs?   My  
> impression, and I could be mistaken, is that the country of export  
> (Morocco) is less relevant than the countries in the NWA corridor  
> from where said objects were first recovered.
>
> Anyway.....
>
> All best / Darryl
>
> ========
>
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
>
>> It makes no difference whatsoever whether a meteorite is classified  
>> or not when originating from Northwest Africa as far as legalities  
>> go. People who spread the rumor that the export of meteorites from  
>> Morocco are illegal seem to have an agenda. A dealer once tried to  
>> make it so you needed a special permit but this failed. I believe  
>> this was to get an exclusive on material coming out of NWA as this  
>> would have served as an effective roadblock to others.
>>
>> The truth is simple:  It is completely legal to obtain meteorites  
>> from Morocco, period!
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 9:33:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them  
>> for granite!
>>
>>
>> Hi Adam, Carl, Peter, All,
>>
>> That's strange. This is the second time in three weeks I've heard  
>> the NWAs were illegal. At least I think what was meant was the  
>> unclassified NWAs are. Adam, would that make any difference?
>>
>> Carl2
>>
>>
>> Adam wrote:
>>> NWA material has been thoroughly checked out by several museums  
>>> and does not
>> present any problem whatsoever...
>>
>> Carl E. wrote:
>>> With all due respect to you. What on Earth is this supposed to mean?
>> "dangers of the NWA market."?...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 12 15:01:25 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:01:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
	granite!
In-Reply-To: <4C8485BF-265F-4DEA-830F-8ECAA5928EC7@dof3.com>
References: <COL108-W176E60CA1C25D6E5195D489B4D0@phx.gbl>
	<988641.12522.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<0B2FCC2D-75AE-4E4F-BB06-7A5B0B9ED196@dof3.com>
	<798299.9374.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4C8485BF-265F-4DEA-830F-8ECAA5928EC7@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <923717.85800.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

One just has to take into account where the rumors originated and for what purpose. I will leave it alone at that as Martin has done a thorough job explaining this . The bottom line is that this issue was brought up in a public forum in Morocco itself and no laws prohibiting the export of meteorites were forthcoming.  Besides, NWA material is in just about every type specimen repository in the world and in several prominent natural history museums.

Adam




----- Original Message ----
From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
To: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
Cc: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 11:47:48 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for granite!



Mmhmm....I highly doubt the Smithsonian is unable to make a determination of law or conducts business by prevailing rumors.

Anyway......

Good weekend / d,


On Feb 12, 2010, at 2:32 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:

> Hi Darryl and List,
> 
> I do not know why the Smithsonian seems to have a problem with NWA, you will have to ask them.  I do know they have accepted some NWA material into there collection as a donation.  I asked two different curators and got two varying opinions nether of which suggested they were illegal.  It may be that they are overly cautious, cannot find any laws regarding them or simply listen to rumors. A simple call to the Moroccan embassy should straighten it out.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> To: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 11:04:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for granite!
> 
> 
> Hi Adam....
> 
> Hoping all is well...
> 
> If the issue below was as clear-cut as suggested, why then does Smithsonian policy prohibit the acquisition of planetary NWAs?   My impression, and I could be mistaken, is that the country of export (Morocco) is less relevant than the countries in the NWA corridor from where said objects were first recovered.
> 
> Anyway.....
> 
> All best / Darryl
> 
> ========
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
> 
>> It makes no difference whatsoever whether a meteorite is classified or not when originating from Northwest Africa as far as legalities go. People who spread the rumor that the export of meteorites from Morocco are illegal seem to have an agenda. A dealer once tried to make it so you needed a special permit but this failed. I believe this was to get an exclusive on material coming out of NWA as this would have served as an effective roadblock to others.
>> 
>> The truth is simple:  It is completely legal to obtain meteorites from Morocco, period!
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Adam
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 9:33:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for granite!
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Adam, Carl, Peter, All,
>> 
>> That's strange. This is the second time in three weeks I've heard the NWAs were illegal. At least I think what was meant was the unclassified NWAs are. Adam, would that make any difference?
>> 
>> Carl2
>> 
>> 
>> Adam wrote:
>>> NWA material has been thoroughly checked out by several museums and does not
>> present any problem whatsoever...
>> 
>> Carl E. wrote:
>>> With all due respect to you. What on Earth is this supposed to mean?
>> "dangers of the NWA market."?...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Fri Feb 12 15:24:27 2010
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:24:27 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them
	for	granite!
In-Reply-To: <923717.85800.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <COL108-W176E60CA1C25D6E5195D489B4D0@phx.gbl>	<988641.12522.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<0B2FCC2D-75AE-4E4F-BB06-7A5B0B9ED196@dof3.com>	<798299.9374.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4C8485BF-265F-4DEA-830F-8ECAA5928EC7@dof3.com>
	<923717.85800.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B75B8FB.5090509@usgs.gov>

Darryl is definitely on the right track.  It is not the country of final 
export that is an issue for many museums.  It is the history of the 
specimen before that, tracing back to the point of origin.  The 
uncertainty over whether a meteorite may have been removed illegally 
from a country, or removed from a country under trade restrictions, is 
the problem.  Museums are incredibly sensitive about such issues.  
Basically, for most NWAs, they worry that  they do not know who the real 
legal owner is.

Jeff

On 2010-02-12 3:01 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
> One just has to take into account where the rumors originated and for what purpose. I will leave it alone at that as Martin has done a thorough job explaining this . The bottom line is that this issue was brought up in a public forum in Morocco itself and no laws prohibiting the export of meteorites were forthcoming.  Besides, NWA material is in just about every type specimen repository in the world and in several prominent natural history museums.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Darryl Pitt<darryl at dof3.com>
> To: Adam Hupe<raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Adam<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 11:47:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for granite!
>
>
>
> Mmhmm....I highly doubt the Smithsonian is unable to make a determination of law or conducts business by prevailing rumors.
>
> Anyway......
>
> Good weekend / d,
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2010, at 2:32 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
>
>    
>> Hi Darryl and List,
>>
>> I do not know why the Smithsonian seems to have a problem with NWA, you will have to ask them.  I do know they have accepted some NWA material into there collection as a donation.  I asked two different curators and got two varying opinions nether of which suggested they were illegal.  It may be that they are overly cautious, cannot find any laws regarding them or simply listen to rumors. A simple call to the Moroccan embassy should straighten it out.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Darryl Pitt<darryl at dof3.com>
>> To: Adam Hupe<raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: Adam<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 11:04:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for granite!
>>
>>
>> Hi Adam....
>>
>> Hoping all is well...
>>
>> If the issue below was as clear-cut as suggested, why then does Smithsonian policy prohibit the acquisition of planetary NWAs?   My impression, and I could be mistaken, is that the country of export (Morocco) is less relevant than the countries in the NWA corridor from where said objects were first recovered.
>>
>> Anyway.....
>>
>> All best / Darryl
>>
>> ========
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> It makes no difference whatsoever whether a meteorite is classified or not when originating from Northwest Africa as far as legalities go. People who spread the rumor that the export of meteorites from Morocco are illegal seem to have an agenda. A dealer once tried to make it so you needed a special permit but this failed. I believe this was to get an exclusive on material coming out of NWA as this would have served as an effective roadblock to others.
>>>
>>> The truth is simple:  It is completely legal to obtain meteorites from Morocco, period!
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Carl 's<carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 9:33:18 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for granite!
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Adam, Carl, Peter, All,
>>>
>>> That's strange. This is the second time in three weeks I've heard the NWAs were illegal. At least I think what was meant was the unclassified NWAs are. Adam, would that make any difference?
>>>
>>> Carl2
>>>
>>>
>>> Adam wrote:
>>>        
>>>> NWA material has been thoroughly checked out by several museums and does not
>>>>          
>>> present any problem whatsoever...
>>>
>>> Carl E. wrote:
>>>        
>>>> With all due respect to you. What on Earth is this supposed to mean?
>>>>          
>>> "dangers of the NWA market."?...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>        
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>      
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Feb 12 15:27:51 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:27:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] WISE Spies a Comet with its Powerful Infrared Eye
Message-ID: <201002122027.o1CKRpaJ002842@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-046

WISE Spies a Comet with its Powerful Infrared Eye
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
February 11, 2010

NASA's Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer, or WISE, has discovered its
first comet, one of many the mission is expected to find among millions
of other objects during its ongoing survey of the whole sky in infrared
light.

Officially named "P/2010 B2 (WISE)," but known simply as WISE, the comet
is a dusty mass of ice more than 2 kilometers (1.2 miles) in diameter.
It probably formed around the same time as our solar system, about 4.5
billion years ago. Comet WISE started out in the cold, dark reaches of
our solar system, but after a long history of getting knocked around by
the gravitational forces of Jupiter, it settled into an orbit much
closer to the sun. Right now, the comet is heading away from the sun and
is about 175 million kilometers (109 million miles) from Earth.

"Comets are ancient reservoirs of water. They are one of the few places
besides Earth in the inner solar system where water is known to exist,"
said Amy Mainzer of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.
Mainzer is the principal investigator of NEOWISE, a project to find and
catalog new asteroids and comets spotted by WISE (the acronym combines
WISE with NEO, the shorthand for near-Earth object).

"With WISE, we have a powerful tool to find new comets and learn more
about the population as a whole. Water is necessary for life as we know
it, and comets can tell us more about how much there is in our solar
system."

The WISE telescope, which launched into a polar orbit around Earth on
Dec. 14, 2009, is expected to discover anywhere from a few to dozens of
new comets, in addition to hundreds of thousands of asteroids. Comets
are harder to find than asteroids because they are much more rare in the
inner solar system. Whereas asteroids tour around in the "main belt"
between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter, large numbers of comets orbit
farther away, in the icy outer reaches of our solar system.

Both asteroids and comets can fall into orbits that bring them close to
Earth's path around the sun. Most of these "near-Earth objects" are
asteroids but some are comets. WISE is expected to find new near-Earth
comets, and this will give us a better idea of how threatening they
might be to Earth.

"It is very unlikely that a comet will hit Earth," said James Bauer, a
scientist at JPL working on the WISE project, "But, in the rare chance
that one did, it could be dangerous. The new discoveries from WISE will
give us more precise statistics about the probability of such an event,
and how powerful an impact it might yield."

The space telescope spotted the comet during its routine scan of the sky
on January 22. Sophisticated software plucked the comet out from the
stream of images pouring down from space by looking for objects that
move quickly relative to background stars. The comet discovery was
followed up by a combination of professional and amateur astronomers
using telescopes across the United States.

A teacher also teamed up with an observer to measure comet WISE using a
home-built telescope next to a cornfield in Illinois. Their research is
part of the International Astronomical Search Collaboration, an
education program that helps teachers and students observe comets and
asteroids (more information is online at http://iasc.hsutx.edu/).

All the data are catalogued at the Minor Planet Center, in Cambridge,
Mass., the worldwide clearinghouse for all observations and orbits of
minor planets and comets.

Comet WISE takes 4.7 years to circle the sun, with its farthest point
being about 4 astronomical units away, and its closest point being 1.6
astronomical units (near the orbit of Mars). An astronomical unit is the
distance between Earth and the sun. Heat from the sun causes gas and
dust to blow off the comet, resulting in a dusty coma, or shell, and a
tail.

Though this particular body is actively shedding dust, WISE is also
expected to find dark, dead comets. Once a comet has taken many trips
around the sun, its icy components erode away, leaving only a dark,
rocky core. Not much is known about these objects because they are hard
to see in visible light. WISE's infrared sight should be able to pick up
the feeble glow of some of these dark comets, answering questions about
precisely how and where they form.

"Dead comets can be darker than coal," said Mainzer. "But in infrared
light, they will pop into view. One question we want to answer with WISE
is how many dead comets make up the near-Earth object population."

The mission will spend the next eight months mapping the sky
one-and-a-half times. A first batch of data will be available to the
public in the spring of 2011, and the final catalog a year later.
Selected images and findings will be released throughout the mission.

JPL manages the Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer for NASA's Science
Mission Directorate, Washington. The principal investigator, Edward
Wright, is at UCLA. The mission was competitively selected under NASA's
Explorers Program managed by the Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt,
Md. The science instrument was built by the Space Dynamics Laboratory,
Logan, Utah, and the spacecraft was built by Ball Aerospace &
Technologies Corp., Boulder, Colo. Science operations and data
processing take place at the Infrared Processing and Analysis Center at
the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. Caltech manages JPL
for NASA. The ground-based observations are partly supported by the
National Science Foundation. The Minor Planet Center is funded by NASA.
More information is online at http://www.nasa.gov/wise and
http://wise.astro.ucla.edu.

Whitney Clavin 818-354-4673
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
whitney.clavin at jpl.nasa.gov

2010-046



From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 12 15:50:31 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:50:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
	granite!
In-Reply-To: <4B75B8FB.5090509@usgs.gov>
References: <COL108-W176E60CA1C25D6E5195D489B4D0@phx.gbl>
	<988641.12522.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<0B2FCC2D-75AE-4E4F-BB06-7A5B0B9ED196@dof3.com>
	<798299.9374.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4C8485BF-265F-4DEA-830F-8ECAA5928EC7@dof3.com>
	<923717.85800.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4B75B8FB.5090509@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <552850.36165.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I guess we will have to take the Moroccans at their word to where they were found; innocent until proven guilty, at least in the U.S.

The only bordering country with possible new laws on the books is Algeria.  I know that this border is very well protected these days so only a fraction may still be coming through. Our group was in touch with a diplomat for Algeria so I do know they started to take an interest in meteorites about 5 or 6 years ago.  They were hoping that the proceeds from meteorite sales could help them to open a museum.  This would have been a great cause but the logistics just didn't work out.  Western Sahara is under Moroccan rule so I do not see a problem there.  All this means to me is that the majority of this material is coming from countries that do not have laws concerning them.  The only questionable surrounding country being Algeria.

Best Regards,

Adam


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Feb 12 16:00:21 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:00:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spirit Finishes Pre-Winter Drives
Message-ID: <201002122100.o1CL0Lm5005445@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-045

Spirit Finishes Pre-Winter Drives
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
February 11, 2010

NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Spirit is now parked for the winter. The
rover team is commanding Spirit this week to make additional
preparations for the Mars southern hemisphere winter season. The team
does not plan further motion of the wheels until spring comes to
Spirit's location beside the western edge of a low plateau called Home
Plate.

On Sol 2169 (Feb. 8, 2010), the rover's last drive before winter changed
the angles of its suspension system, but it did not produce a hoped-for
improvement to the overall tilt of the solar array for catching winter
sunshine. Drives since Sol 2145 (Jan. 15, 2010) moved Spirit 34
centimeters (13 inches) south-southeastward. However, a counterclockwise
yawing of the rover during the drives prevented it from reducing its
southerly tilt.

Spirit will spend the coming winter tilted 9 degrees toward the south,
an unfavorable attitude for the solar panels to catch rays from the sun
in the northern sky. Spirit's parking positions for its previous three
Martian winters tilted northward. Engineers anticipate that, due to the
unfavorable tilt for this fourth winter, Spirit will be out of
communication with Earth for several months.

Spirit may enter a low-power hibernation mode within a few weeks,
shutting down almost all functions except keeping a master clock running
and checking its power status periodically until it has enough power to
reawaken. It may go in and out of this mode a few times at the beginning
and at the end of an extended hibernation period.

This week the rover team is uploading schedules to Spirit for when to
communicate with Earth or with the orbiting Mars Odyssey during the rest
of this year and into 2011. Spirit will use these schedules whenever it
has adequate power to wake up. Spirit will take a set of "before" images
of surroundings from the parked position this week, for comparison with
images in the Martian spring to study effects of wind. Images toward the
south will also aid preparations for possible future drives, although,
with only four of its six wheels still working, the rover is not
expected to move farther than short repositioning drives. Other
preparations for winter will include putting the robotic arm into a
position for studies of atmospheric composition when power is available
and changing the stow positions of the high-gain antenna and panoramic
camera to minimize shadowing of the solar panels.

Spirit is more than six years into a mission originally planned for
three months on Mars. Its twin, Opportunity, is exploring an area
halfway around the planet and closer to the equator, where that rover
does not need to park for the winter.

Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov

2010-045



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Feb 12 16:02:19 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:02:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: February 8-12, 2010
Message-ID: <201002122102.o1CL2J0e006196@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
February 8-12, 2010

o Tithonium Chasma (08 February 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100208a

o Coprates Chasma (09 February 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100209a

o Coprates Catena (10 February 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100210a

o Dark Slope Streaks (11 February 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100211a

o Dunes (12 February 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100212a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 





From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Feb 12 16:08:12 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:08:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Express: Auspicious Orbit Marks Run-up to
	Phobos Flyby
Message-ID: <201002122108.o1CL8Ck2008367@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMDUGSJR4G_0.html

Auspicious orbit marks run-up to Phobos flyby
European Space Agency
29 January 2010

On 26 January, Mars Express completed its 7777th orbit around the Red
Planet, an auspicious milestone as the satellite is readied for the
closest-ever flyby of Phobos, scheduled for just a few weeks from now.
 
Mars Express has been in orbit since 25 December 2003, returning a
wealth of scientific information and some of the most stunning
high-resolution imagery of the Red Planet ever. Its data have allowed
scientists to measure the abundance of water ice and vapour in the
martian subsurface, surface and the atmosphere, as well as previously
unknown methane in the atmosphere.  
 
This week, the orbiter completed 7777 circuits of the planet and
continues to operate flawlessly. Currently, each orbit takes 6 hours and
54 minutes. The spacecraft is following a polar orbit, and at closest
approach passes just 350 km above the surface of Mars and, at farthest
approach, 10 300 km.
 
Closest-ever Phobos flyby
 
This highly elliptical orbit will enable Mars Express, on 3 March, to
conduct the closest flyby and examination of Phobos, Mars' largest moon.
The flyby, at a planned altitude of just 50 km, will collect very
precise radio Doppler data to help determine the moon's gravity field
more accurately than ever.
 
Mars Express imaged the martian moons Phobos and Deimos together on 5
November 2009

This close flyby will be bracketed by similarly close passages, which
will be used for other scientific investigations including radar
sounding and imaging.

Knowing the gravity field will help scientists to understand the
distribution of mass inside the moon, which is another step in the quest
to discover the origin of Phobos.

None of the other spacecraft now orbiting Mars can fly as close to
Phobos. While Mars is the mission's primary target, this flyby is an
excellent opportunity for additional scientific investigation of the
Mars system, and will boost overall science return.
 
This Phobos flyby is combined with a sequence of precise orbit
manoeuvres planned in February and March. They will increase the orbit
duration to almost exactly 7 hours, in order to improve the Sun
illumination of the ground track pictured by the spacecraft for many
years to come.
 
Mars Express is scheduled to operate until 2012; a further extension to
2014 will be assessed this year.


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Feb 12 16:11:03 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:11:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Express Images: Craters Young and Old in
	Sirenum Fossae
Message-ID: <201002122111.o1CLB3p8009066@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMJLFSJR4G_0.html

Mars Express
Craters young and old in Sirenum Fossae
European Space Agency 
3 February 2010

The Mars Express High Resolution Stereo Camera has imaged craters both
young and old in this view of the Southern Highlands of Mars.
 

[Image]
Sirenum Fossae

Part of the Sirenum Fossae region in the Southern Highlands, the area in
this image is centred at about 28??S / 185??E. The image captures an area
to the north of the Magelhaens Crater. It extends some 230 km by 127 km
and covers about 29 450 sq km, roughly the size of Belgium. The image
resolution is approximately 29 metres per pixel.
 

[Image} 
Perspective view of Sirenum Fossae

Sirenum Fossae extends for more than 2500 km to the southwest of the
Tharsis volcanic region, which contains Olympus Mons, the highest
volcano in our Solar System. Sirenum Fossae is a system of grabens,
formed by stresses placed on the crust during the uprising of the
Tharsis region. A graben is visible as two sets of parallel lines
running from top to bottom to the left of centre.
 
[Image] 
Sirenum Fossae's central plateau

The Southern Highlands are older than the Northern Lowlands, based on
the larger number of impact craters seen to cover the region. Craters of
50 km in diameter are common in this area and have usually suffered from
erosion, indicating they were formed during ancient times.
 
 
[Image]
Notable features in the Sirenum Fossae region of Mars.
 
There is an impact crater with a diameter of about 28 km to the left of
the image. In contrast to other craters in its vicinity, it has
experienced less erosion ??? its crater rim and central peak are still
preserved. There are three other craters nearby: to the west is a large
crater with a diameter of 56 km, to the northeast one that stretches 34
km across and a smaller crater of only 9 km diameter to the south.
 
 

[Image]	
Craters in the Sirenum Fossae region of Mars

On the basis of their appearances, the craters can be placed in age
order. The largest two are the oldest because they have been partially
destroyed by the mid-sized crater. The smallest is the youngest because
it has impacted into the rim of the mid-sized crater.
 
 
[Image]
Elevation of the Sirenum Fossae region in the Southern Highlands of Mars.
 
In the central part of the image, a plateau is recognisable and shows
evidence of further erosion. In particular, there is a broad valley
system on the western slope.
 

[Image] 
Part of the Sirenum Fossae region in high resolution.
 
[Image] 
Part of the Sirenum Fossae region in 3D.



From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 12 16:43:59 2010
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:43:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tamdakht
Message-ID: <523693.97230.qm@web45414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Dear members!
 
 Any need for Tamdakht fall? count on me, i got what you want if ya looking for a large complete one! primary and secondary crust! don't worry for the price! just let me show you and we talk it then.

Best
Aziz ( saffron guy)


      



From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Fri Feb 12 17:26:07 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:26:07 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take
	themfor	granite!
In-Reply-To: <4B75B8FB.5090509@usgs.gov>
References: <COL108-W176E60CA1C25D6E5195D489B4D0@phx.gbl>	<988641.12522.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<0B2FCC2D-75AE-4E4F-BB06-7A5B0B9ED196@dof3.com>	<798299.9374.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4C8485BF-265F-4DEA-830F-8ECAA5928EC7@dof3.com><923717.85800.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4B75B8FB.5090509@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <000401caac32$65ed4030$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Hello,

only a short note regarding the NWAs from Morocco 
(because I have an instable internet connection at the moment.)

There aren't any laws, regarding ownership, export or hunting of meteorites
in Morocco. That was also realized on the desert workshop of MetSoc in
Casablanca, 2006.

Should be easily found online too, because it was also published in a report
about the workshop in MAPS. Just google.

So fears, if some curators have such in that respect, I'd say, are
unnecessary.

Best!
Martin


 




-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff
Grossman
Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Februar 2010 21:24
An: Meteorite-list
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take themfor
granite!

Darryl is definitely on the right track.  It is not the country of final 
export that is an issue for many museums.  It is the history of the 
specimen before that, tracing back to the point of origin.  The 
uncertainty over whether a meteorite may have been removed illegally 
from a country, or removed from a country under trade restrictions, is 
the problem.  Museums are incredibly sensitive about such issues.  
Basically, for most NWAs, they worry that  they do not know who the real 
legal owner is.

Jeff

On 2010-02-12 3:01 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
> One just has to take into account where the rumors originated and for what
purpose. I will leave it alone at that as Martin has done a thorough job
explaining this . The bottom line is that this issue was brought up in a
public forum in Morocco itself and no laws prohibiting the export of
meteorites were forthcoming.  Besides, NWA material is in just about every
type specimen repository in the world and in several prominent natural
history museums.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Darryl Pitt<darryl at dof3.com>
> To: Adam Hupe<raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Adam<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 11:47:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
granite!
>
>
>
> Mmhmm....I highly doubt the Smithsonian is unable to make a determination
of law or conducts business by prevailing rumors.
>
> Anyway......
>
> Good weekend / d,
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2010, at 2:32 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
>
>    
>> Hi Darryl and List,
>>
>> I do not know why the Smithsonian seems to have a problem with NWA, you
will have to ask them.  I do know they have accepted some NWA material into
there collection as a donation.  I asked two different curators and got two
varying opinions nether of which suggested they were illegal.  It may be
that they are overly cautious, cannot find any laws regarding them or simply
listen to rumors. A simple call to the Moroccan embassy should straighten it
out.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Darryl Pitt<darryl at dof3.com>
>> To: Adam Hupe<raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: Adam<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 11:04:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
granite!
>>
>>
>> Hi Adam....
>>
>> Hoping all is well...
>>
>> If the issue below was as clear-cut as suggested, why then does
Smithsonian policy prohibit the acquisition of planetary NWAs?   My
impression, and I could be mistaken, is that the country of export (Morocco)
is less relevant than the countries in the NWA corridor from where said
objects were first recovered.
>>
>> Anyway.....
>>
>> All best / Darryl
>>
>> ========
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> It makes no difference whatsoever whether a meteorite is classified or
not when originating from Northwest Africa as far as legalities go. People
who spread the rumor that the export of meteorites from Morocco are illegal
seem to have an agenda. A dealer once tried to make it so you needed a
special permit but this failed. I believe this was to get an exclusive on
material coming out of NWA as this would have served as an effective
roadblock to others.
>>>
>>> The truth is simple:  It is completely legal to obtain meteorites from
Morocco, period!
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Carl 's<carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 9:33:18 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Russian meteorites-- don't take them for
granite!
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Adam, Carl, Peter, All,
>>>
>>> That's strange. This is the second time in three weeks I've heard the
NWAs were illegal. At least I think what was meant was the unclassified NWAs
are. Adam, would that make any difference?
>>>
>>> Carl2
>>>
>>>
>>> Adam wrote:
>>>        
>>>> NWA material has been thoroughly checked out by several museums and
does not
>>>>          
>>> present any problem whatsoever...
>>>
>>> Carl E. wrote:
>>>        
>>>> With all due respect to you. What on Earth is this supposed to mean?
>>>>          
>>> "dangers of the NWA market."?...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>        
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>      
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk  Sat Feb 13 12:38:37 2010
From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk (jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:38:37 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sonny-Driving thru Texas with nowhere to go WOW WOW
Message-ID: <5788059.10531266082717397.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>

Sonny,list
      What a great find.Who's have thought a half kilo Portales was 
still sitting about out there just waiting to be plucked out of the 
dirt.Beautiful---thanks for sharing

Jim Brady


From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Sat Feb 13 14:05:04 2010
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:05:04 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted: Pea sized fresh stones
Message-ID: <34A5DD64E39B43C09195848C6E413362@Bandli1>

Dear List:

I am looking to buy pea sized (or smaller) complete individuals of fresh
falls (Chergach, Bassi, Bensour, Holbrook, Pultusk, etc., etc..). I need a
lot of them! Let me know your price or perhaps we can trade something.

Cheers,

Mike Bandli

-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA?#5765
-----------------------------------




From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 15:52:54 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:52:54 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton - Any Updates?
Message-ID: <e51421551002131252n7ab061f0lcc54485342164d82@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List,

All chatter about Lorton has died down pretty quick.  Did anyone find
more fragments or individuals from the fall?   Has it been officially
classified yet, or is the legal wrangling going to delay the
classification?

Best regards,

MikeG

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From mlblood at cox.net  Sat Feb 13 16:41:03 2010
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:41:03 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Show
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002131252n7ab061f0lcc54485342164d82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C79C5C6F.B75E%mlblood@cox.net>

Hi all,
        I finally got back from my Great Tucson Show
Adventure..... Will spare you the gory details of
24hr breakdown, etc.
        I WILL tell you that if you live in Tucson or
EVER have any automotive problems near Tucson,
You DEFINITELY want to get your repairs done at:
Precision Auto & Transmission, 4729 E. 22nd, Tucson,AZ
PH: 520.747.7287
Ask for Pat and tell him I sent you - honest, very skilled
And unbelievably modest in pricing. So very rare a
Combination in the automotive repair biz.
        Anyway, all absentee bidders have now been notified
And the results of the Auction will be posted by Monday
At the latest (there will be a link from the on line catalog
Where the "PRINT" link is now).
        Glad Chicago Steve got to see "a REAL auctioneer."
        Other than the breakdown, this was a really sweet
Show made particularly meaningful to me and Angel
As my closest family member, my nephew, John and his 10
Year old son, Jack made it out and we got to spend some super
Quality time with our "Great Nephew" who calls me,
"Gruncle Mike." I am most grateful to Geoff Notkin and
All the other dealers who, I am told, were particularly
Nice to him. 
        I am also pleased to say I made a new friend (several,
Really, but re this one..), Russ Finney, who has made a
TERRIFIC overview of the Tucson Show in a photo array
Of like 6 pages with commentary. Russ has excellent web
Page skills and it reads like a photographic journal of the
Tucson Show.
        He gave me permission to share it with everyone - at:

http://www.meteoritecollector.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5208

        Best wishes, Michael

        




From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 13 16:57:12 2010
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:57:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Really nice thin section images
Message-ID: <706687.24589.qm@web46401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi to all, testing is underway on a new NWA Howardite (possible)
I got a few thin section images from testing today, I know many of you enjoy seeing these so I thought I would share.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWAxxxx_725xXP.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWAxxxx_725xXP.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWAxxxx_325xXP.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWAxxxx_125xXP.jpg

End cut of one of the stones
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF3261.jpg

Hope everyone is doing well!


Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites


      


From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 13 19:40:29 2010
From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:40:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nevada Meteorites Hunt page update " Driving
	Across Texas with nowhere to go."
Message-ID: <453354.89958.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello Sonny? ( and List ),

? Thanks so much for sharing your Portales Valley story and photos with us, Sonny. Very cool! Congrats on such a beautiful find.

???It was also interesting to see what 10 years of weathering had done to the piece. From the photos, it really didn't appear to have suffered TOO badly at all, even on the surface. And I don't think I could see any signs of rusting on the interior. This is a great opportunity for me to ask the List at large a question I have asked once or twice before over the past 12 years. So here it is once again, please:

? For those of you who have specimens of PV? ( especially slices ), have you noticed any signs of rusting on your pieces?? I continually check my collection pieces and am both happy, and probably a little surprised, to see essentially NO signs of rust after more than a decade of exposure to the rather high humidity here in the South where I live.? I would very much appreciate any replies concerning other member's experience with their specimens.

? Sincerely, 
? Robert Woolard? ???
 

--- On Fri, 2/12/10, wahlperry at aol.com <wahlperry at aol.com> wrote:

> From: wahlperry at aol.com <wahlperry at aol.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Nevada Meteorites Hunt page update " Driving Across Texas with nowhere to go."
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 1:30 PM
> Hi List,
> 
> I've added a new story on my web site under the Meteorite
> Hunts page. "Driving across Texas with nowhere to go"?
> It is one of my hunting trips with Rob Reisener and Skip
> Wilson. As I get time, I will adding a few more meteorite
> hunting stories.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Sonny
> 
> http://www.nevadameteorites.com/nevadameteorites/METEORITE_HUNTS.html
> www.nevadameteorites.com
> 
>





      


From JPBrockets at aol.com  Sat Feb 13 21:10:41 2010
From: JPBrockets at aol.com (JPBrockets at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:10:41 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - Park Forest Slice
Message-ID: <114ea.2fee744e.38a8b5a1@aol.com>

Dear List Members:

For those possibly  interested, please have a look.  12.8 gram slice of 
Park  Forest.

Thanks.

_http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200439313571&ssPageName=
STRK:MESELX:IT_ 
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200439313571&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT)    

Juris
_jpbrockets at aol.com_ (mailto:jpbrockets at aol.com) 


From mlblood at cox.net  Sat Feb 13 21:28:37 2010
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:28:37 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Results
In-Reply-To: <114ea.2fee744e.38a8b5a1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C79C9FD5.B76F%mlblood@cox.net>

Hi All,
        The auction results are up and can be seen through Feb. at:

http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/TucsonMetAuctionPRINT.html

        Best wishes, Michael




From gmhupe at htn.net  Sat Feb 13 21:48:00 2010
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:48:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] NEO 2010 CR5 - Greg Hupe co-discovery!
References: <1098784085-1265893461-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2140850798-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702BF3399@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
Message-ID: <2C76F7AECB544C7CA54B1C6DA890C8EA@Gregor>

Hello NEO Fans,

Thank you to all on-List and off for the many congrats to Richard and I for 
the new NEO discoveries on my visit to the Mt. Lemmon observatory operated 
by the team of the Catalina Sky Survey (CSS). I would like to thank Richard 
Kowalski and the entire CSS team for their dedicated efforts, and for the 
opportunity to be included as a guest observer for a night which netted 
three new Near Earth Objects in just four hours of observing time. These 
include asteroids; 2010 CJ1, 2010 CM1 and 2010 CR5, which I am named 
co-discoverer. How cool is that!

>From my limited time at the 60" telescope, I observed first hand the many 
hats professional astronomers must wear in order to conduct their tireless 
work. When unexpected technical problems arise, they must become a 
troubleshooter, handyman/woman and computer expert to name a few. I gained 
an even greater level of respect for these hunters of deep space!

It was truly an honor to sit in the same chair from where Richard Kowalski 
discovered NEO "2008 TC3", which as we now know, became meteorite "Almahata 
Sitta". I appreciate the opportunity to hang out for an evening with the 
'stars'. It was an awe-inspiring experience and a pleasure to look deep into 
space and to see the objects of our desires before they become one with 
Earth!

Perhaps one of these three new NEO's will become the newest 'meteorite' to 
join us on planet Earth...

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matson, Robert D." <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 3:33 PM
Subject: NEO 2010 CR5 - Greg Hupe co-discovery!


Congratulations, Greg, on your NEO codiscovery!  A Minor Planet
Electronic
Circular was posted for it a little while ago:

http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/mpec/K10/K10C44.html

Based on the preliminary orbit, this is an earth-crossing (and
Mars-crossing)
Apollo asteroid.  At H=22.3, the size is somewhere from 110-190 meters
depending on how dark the NEO is.

--Rob

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_11_2010.html




From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Sat Feb 13 22:51:07 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul H.)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:51:07 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Recent Papers About Extinction of Mammoth in North
	America
Message-ID: <20100213225107.7ZCC9.945926.imail@eastrmwml38>

Some recent papers about the Late Pleistocene extinction of 
mammoths in North America and more data to consider in 
evaluating various Pleistocene impacts hypotheses are:

1. Veltre, D. W. David R. Yesner, Kristine J. Crossen, Russell W. 
Graham and Joan B. Coltrain, 2008, Extinction of Mammoth in 
North America. Quaternary Research, Volume 70, Issue 1, 
Pages 40-50

Abstract at http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.yqres.2008.03.006

2. Enk, J. M., D. R. Yesner, K. J. Crossen, D. W. Veltre and D. H. 
O'Rourke, 2009, Phylogeographic analysis of the mid-Holocene 
Mammoth from Qagnax? Cave, St. Paul Island, Alaska.
Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology
Volume 273, Issues 1-2, 1 March 2009, Pages 184-190

Abstract at http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.palaeo.2008.12.019

In part the abstract reads:

"Remains of a woolly mammoth (Mammuthus primigenius) were 
found in Qagnax? Cave, a lava tube cave on St. Paul Island in the 
Pribilof Islands, 500 km west of the Alaskan mainland in the Bering 
Sea. Several dates converge on 5725 14C yr BP, making these the 
youngest mammoth remains discovered in North America, ...."

3. Woodman, N., and Nancy Beavan Athfield, 2009, Post-Clovis 
survival of American Mastodon in the southern Great Lakes 
Region of North America. Quaternary Research. Volume 72, 
Issue 3, November 2009, Pages 359-363

Abstract at http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.yqres.2009.06.009
PDF file at http://si-pddr.si.edu/dspace/bitstream/10088/8383/1/vz_2009_Mastodon_Woodman_and_Athfield.pdf  
and http://si-pddr.si.edu/dspace/handle/10088/8383

Yours,

Paul H.


From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 23:07:55 2010
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:07:55 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men, Jim Kriegh and Strewnfield Map
Message-ID: <80659e1a1002132007i7ad36cedt98e5e5735ed7cbf0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

After the great episode of Meteorite Men the other day I was flooded
with emails (Probably due to my Jim Kriegh tribute on youtube) of fans
wanting to know more about Jim and his Gold Basin map. Then yesterday
as I was looking through some old VHS tapes I found one about Jim! I
added a few pictures, a little narration and put it on the Internet.
The video is less than five minutes but it's pretty cool watching Jim
teach the same way he taught me 12 years ago. Oh ya, his secret map is
included in the video!

Take a look here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MGNGAV5D5I

Thanks Geoff and Steve for telling it right!

Ruben Garcia,

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 00:43:02 2010
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 22:43:02 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Ebay - Imilac, LDG, Mundrabilla SLICE, Henbury,
	Mesosiderite, Campo, Moldavite, Sikhote-Alin SLICE, Gibeon Egg,
	NWA Sphere!
Message-ID: <5e97e2851002132143x71f355c5va5b12d5e8165fdb1@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
IT was really great seeing all of you recently!  I have been dumping
some great stuff to raise some money, and to share great stuff with
the world!

Here are all my auctions, they are ending in less than 24 hours:

http://shop.ebay.com/callistodesigns/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

I have an Imilac, a LDG, a Mundrabilla SLICE (etched nicely) ,
Henbury, Mesosiderite (Toufassour), Campo, Moldavite, Sikhote-Alin
SLICE (mirror Polish) with STAMP! , Gibeon Egg Etched expertly by Karl
Sprieg, and a NWA Sphere cared by Karl as well!

Check them all out, and bid lots! There are a lot of items that are
still under my cost in bids! So it is a good chance to score something
cool for cheap.

Here is the Polished Slice of Sikhote-Alin, you don't see that often,
And it comes with a STAMP! :::::

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-Sikhote-Alin-Iron-Meteorite-slice-Russian-Stamp_W0QQitemZ260548560256QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca9e78580

And here is s really really cool Mesosiderite called Toufassour, that
was expertly cut and polished by the lovely Blaine Reed:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stony-Iron-Meterorite-Polished-Slice-End-Cut-Toufassour_W0QQitemZ260552152842QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3caa1e570a

And here is a super cool NWA 869 Sphere, carved by my Favorite South
African, Karl Spieg:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stone-Meteorite-CARVED-Sphere-NWA-869-Marble-Crystal-NR_W0QQitemZ260552118798QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3caa1dd20e

and an Egg that is larger, and made of Gibeon (also made by Karl) :

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibeon-Iron-Meteorite-ETCHED-CARVED-EGG-Widmanstatten_W0QQitemZ260552115648QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3caa1dc5c0

And here is a super lovely End Cut of a Mundrabilla that is expertly
etched by Josh Eisler, My favorite Meteorite Cutlery Artisan:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mundrabilla-Iron-Meteorite-ETCHED-SLICE-WIDMANSTATTEN_W0QQitemZ250575359714QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a57748ee2

Hopefully there are things there, that you just can't live without,
and it will go to my defense fund (most of you know what I am talking
about, the rumors are rampant).

Take Care My lovely Meteorite People,
Love Ya'll
Leigh Anne DelRay


From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 01:22:41 2010
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:22:41 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] anybody get a photo of me being dragged off stage
	by the Jensen's at the B-day Bash?
Message-ID: <5e97e2851002132222i781d5074seff411c9c9bffbe2@mail.gmail.com>

Just wondering. I thought it would be a funny one for the scrapbook!
Thanks,
Leigh Anne


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 07:38:20 2010
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:38:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ibaraki Prefecture, Japan Meteor 20:28pm 14FEB2010
Message-ID: <619245.57805.qm@web53103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear Lists,

Ibaraki Prefecture, Japan Meteor Lights Sky!

I just received a report of a fireball sighting over Ibaraki Prefecture, Japan seen at approximately 8:28pm;
"... (we) were driving near our apartment, and
we saw a bright flash of light in the sky ahead of us. We are not sure
what was it, but it is possible that it was a bolide. It looked like a
very bright falling star.

Time: around 20:28 Japan local time ... (more)

http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2010/02/ibaraki-japan-meteor-fireball-bolide.html

If anyone has more information about this event please let me know.  I will update my news site if there is any news and videos.

Thank you.  Dirk Ross...Tokyo


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 09:35:14 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:35:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NEO computer hacked
Message-ID: <471705.847.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"Until further notice, all circular issuance from the MPC (and CBAT,
which is continuing to issue IAUCs/CBETs via the CfA for the next
few months) is suspended.

"I received a phone call from our Computation Facility informing
me that my Linux account had been hacked. While they investigate
the problem and try to track down the gimboid who did this, my
user account and the two accounts used to mail out circulars have
been disabled. It is unlikely that our core VMS cluster has been
compromised (since I don't recall accessing my VMS system from any
CF Linux system), but I have yet to do full check of the network
logs. The earliest indication that the CF has that something was
amiss was yesterday evening, so kudos for them jumping on the problem
so quickly.

"I will work on setting up an alternate route for mailing out
circulars, but that is going to take some time. The posting of
circulars on the Web, as well as the updating of various data files
on our web/ftp server may be off-line for some time.

"Gareth"


      


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Sun Feb 14 10:12:16 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (michael at rocksfromspace.org)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:12:16 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 14,
	2010
Message-ID: <267460851-1266160277-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1569464791-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_14_2010.html

___________________




Thumbed On My BlackBerry


From minador at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 10:27:08 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 07:27:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	14, 2010
In-Reply-To: <267460851-1266160277-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1569464791-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <267460851-1266160277-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1569464791-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <406247.68468.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Yay Larry! - keep up the great work.? (I hope you had a successful hunt!!)



----- Original Message ----
From: "michael at rocksfromspace.org" <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sun, February 14, 2010 8:12:16 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 14, 2010

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_14_2010.html

___________________




Thumbed On My BlackBerry
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Sun Feb 14 11:03:47 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:03:47 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ocean Acidification and the Permian and Triassic
	Extinctions
Message-ID: <4B781EE3.7070802@cox.net>

Asteroid and comet impacts are not the only possible
cause for the Permian and Triassic-Jurassic extinctions.
Some recent papers on a likely major contributing cause
to these mass extinctions are:

1. Saunders, A., and M. Reichow, 2009, The Siberian Traps  
and the End-Permian mass extinction: a critical review.  
Chinese Science Bulletin. vol. 54, no. 1, pp. 20-37.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/1743222152769702/    

"Compromise of the carbon sequestration systems (by  
curtailment of photosynthesis, destruction of biomass,  
and warming and  acidification of the oceans) probably  
led to rapid atmospheric CO2 build-up, warming, and  
shallow-water anoxia, leading ultimately to mass
extinction."

2. Knoll, A. H., R. K. Bambach, J. L. Payne, S. Prussa and  
Woodward W. Fischer, 2007, Paleophysiology and end-Permian
mass extinction. Earth and Planetary  Science Letters.
vol. 256, no. 3-4, pp. 295-313. 
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.epsl.2007.02.018    

"Global warming, anoxia, and toxic sulfide probably all  
contributed to end-Permian mass mortality, but hypercapnia
(physiological effects of elevated PCO2)  best accounts
for the selective survival of marine  invertebrates."   

3. Hautmann, M., 2004, Effect of End-Triassic CO2
maximum  on carbonate sedimentation and marine mass
extinction.  Facies. vol. 50, pp. 257-261.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/ajvptjvenfvte5ck/    

"Besides the frequently cited climatic effect of enhanced  
carbon dioxide, lowering the saturation state of sea water  
with respect to calcium carbonate was an additional driving  
force of the end-Triassic mass extinction, which chiefly  
affected organisms with thick aragonitic or high-magnesium  
calcitic skeletons. Replacement of aragonite by calcite,
as found in the shells of epifaunal bivalves, was an
evolutionary response to this condition."

4. Hautmann, M., M., J. Benton, and A. Tomasovych, 2008,  
Catastrophic ocean acidification at the Triassic-Jurassic  
boundary. Neues Jahrbuch fur Geologie und Paleontologie  
Abhandlungen. vol. 249, pp. 119-127.    

"Using carbon isotopes as a geochemical marker, we found  
that the onset of the CO2 emissions coincided with an  
interruption of carbonate sedimentation in palaeogeographically  
distant regions, suggesting that hydrolysis of CO2 led to  
a short but substantial decrease of seawater pH that slowed
down or inhibited precipitation of calcium carbonate minerals.
The cessation of carbonate sedimentation correlates with a
major marine extinction event, which  especially affected
organisms with aragonitic or high-Mg calcitic skeletons and
little physiological control of biocalcification."    

5. Ryan, D., and D. Lehrann, 2009, Petrographic evaluation of  
a Permian-Triassic erosion surface and implications for causes
of the end-Permian mass extinction. Geological Society of
America Abstracts with Programs, Vol 41, No. 4, p. 17.
http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2009NC/finalprogram/abstract_156104.htm    

"Our results favor genesis as a submarine dissolution surface
resulting from ocean acidification during the  end-Permian
extinction."

6. Veron, J. E. N., 2008, Mass extinctions and ocean acidification:  
biological constraints on geological dilemmas. Coral Reefs.  
vol. 27, no. 3., pp. 459-472.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/085g2151l3nlt871/    

7. Zhuravlev, A. Y., and R. A. Wood, 2009, Controls on  
carbonate skeletal mineralogy: Global CO2 evolution and  
mass extinctions. Geology. vol. 37, no. 12, pp. 1123-1126. 
http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/37/12/1123.abstract    

"Mass extinction events, many of which may be caused by  
rapid global changes in temperature and/or pCO2, represent  
major intervals of turnover."

8. Sleep, N. H., 2009, End-Permian Extinction From Massive
Basalt-Coal Interaction. Geological Society of America Abstracts
with Programs, Vol. 41, No. 7, p. 359.
http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2009AM/finalprogram/abstract_162958.htm

"The sudden CO2 and methane release then resulted in strong
global warming. There was insufficient time to renew the
mixed layer of the ocean, resulting in much stronger
acidification than in the present ocean. Overall, changes
that occur over less than the lifetimes of organisms are
more likely to have catastrophic biological effects than slow
changes. Therefore a sudden massive release of CO2 from coal
burning over a few years is a more likely mass extinction
mechanism than the gradual release of CO2 from metamorphism
over 10000s of years in the Siberian basin."

Yours,

Paul H.  



From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Sun Feb 14 11:07:08 2010
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:07:08 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- Ebay store open
Message-ID: <771131460-1266163627-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1317585049-@bda690.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Hi list
I have recently started an Ebay store that will handle my inventory odds and ends.  Also I have one auction ending in 1 day: a nice oriented shield at a low starting bid.  Check out the Lodranite too, starting at just over 16/g!
Thanks for looking.

http://stores.ebay.com/Mile-High-Meteorites 

Matt Morgan
----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Sun Feb 14 11:26:30 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:26:30 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Terminal Permian Volcanism and Mass Extinctions
Message-ID: <4B782436.7070803@cox.net>

Dear Friends,

Below are some recent web pages and PDF files of publications
about termianl Permian volcanism and mass extinction. It looks
like this mass extinction was not caused by either an asteroid or
comet impact.

http://palaeo.gly.bris.ac.uk/Palaeofiles/Permian/SiberianTraps.html

(Map of Russia with highlighted area around Siberian Traps)
http://palaeo.gly.bris.ac.uk/Palaeofiles/Permian/SiberianTraps.html

Siberian Traps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_Traps

The Siberian Traps - Home
http://www.le.ac.uk/gl/ads/SiberianTraps/Index.html
http://www.le.ac.uk/gl/ads/SiberianTraps/Plumesornot.html
http://www.le.ac.uk/gl/ads/SiberianTraps/FBandME.html

Emeishan Traps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emeishan_Traps

Late Permian Emeishan flood basalt in southeastern China
http://www.iugg.org/members/nationalreports/china2002/chinaIAVCEI/4%20LATE%20PERMIAN%20EMEISHAN%20FLOOD%20BASALTS.htm

9. T84. Volcanism, Impacts, Mass Extinctions, and Global
Environmental Change II (Paleontological Society; GSA
Sedimentary Geology Division) 
http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2009AM/finalprogram/session_25172.htm

A few of innumerable online PDF files of papers:

Kamo, S. L., G. K. Czamanske, Y. Amelina, V. A. Fedorenko, D. W.
Davis, and V. R. Tro?mov, 2003, Rapid eruption of Siberian
Flood-volcanic rocks and evidence for coincidence with the
Permian-Triassic boundary and mass extinction at 251 Ma. Earth
and Planetary Science Letters. vol. 214, pp. 75-91.

http://bi154.dhcp.ttu.edu/extinction/kamo+al03.pdf

Haggerty, B. M., 1996, Episodes of Flood-Basalt Volcanism Defined by
Ar40/Ar39 Age Distributions: Correlation with Mass Extinctions?
Journal of Undergraduate Science. vol. 3, pp. 156-164.

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jus/0303/haggerty.pdf

Metcalfe, I., and Y. Isozaki, 2009, Current perspectives on the
Permian?Triassic boundary and end-Permian mass extinction:
Preface. Journal of Asian Earth Sciences. vol. 36, pp. 407?412

http://ea.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/earth/Members/Isozaki/09JAES-preface.pdf

Isozaki, Y., 2007, Plume Winter scenario for biosphere catastrophe:
the Permo-Triassic boundary case. In Yuen, D., Maruyama, S.,
Karato, S. and Windley, B.F. (eds.), Superplume: beyond plate
tectonics. pp. 409-440, Springer, Berlin.

http://ea.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/earth/Members/Isozaki/07superplume.pdf

(warning the above file is 29 MB in size)

Isozaki, Y., 2009, Illawarra Reversal: The fingerprint of a
superplume that triggered Pangean breakupand the end-
Guadalupian (Permian) mass extinction. Gondwana Research.
vol. 15, pp. 421?432.

http://ea.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/earth/Members/Isozaki/09Illawarra-GR.pdf

A bunch of downloadable PDF files at the bottom of "Yukio
Isozaki" at;

http://ea.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/earth/Members/isozaki_Eng.html

Retallack, G.J., 2005, Permian greenhouse crises, in Lucas, S.G.
and Ziegler, K.E., ed., The nonmarine Permian. Bulletin New
Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science. vol. 30, pp. 256-269.

http://www.uoregon.edu/~dogsci/_media/directory/faculty/greg/permiancrises.pdf?id=directory%3Afaculty%3Agreg%3Apublications&cache=cache
http://www.uoregon.edu/~dogsci/directory/faculty/greg/publications

Retallack, G. J., R. M. H. Smith, and P. D. Ward, 2003, Vertebrate
extinction across Permian-Triassic boundary in Karoo Basin, South
Africa. Bulletin of the Geological Society of America. vol. 115, no. 9,
pp. 1133 - 1152.

http://www.uoregon.edu/~dogsci/_media/directory/faculty/greg/karoopt_final.pdf?id=directory%3Afaculty%3Agreg%3Apublications&cache=cachehttp 
http://www.uoregon.edu/~dogsci/directory/faculty/greg/publications


Retallack, G. J., Christine A. Metzger, Tara Greaver, A. Hope Jahren,
Roger M.H. Smith and Nathan D. Sheldon, 2006, Middle-Late Permian
mass extinction on land, GSA Bulletin. vol. 118, no. 11-12,
pp. 1398-1411

http://www.uoregon.edu/~dogsci/_media/directory/faculty/greg/mid-late_permian_extinction.pdf?id=directory%3Afaculty%3Agreg%3Apublications&cache=cache
http://www.uoregon.edu/~dogsci/directory/faculty/greg/publications

Retallack, G. J., Greaver, T., and Jahren, A. H., 2007, Return to
Coalsack Bluff and the Permian-Triassic boundary in Antarctica.
Global and Planetary Change. vol . 55, pp. 90-108

http://www.uoregon.edu/~dogsci/_media/directory/faculty/greg/coalsack.pdf?id=directory%3Afaculty%3Agreg%3Apublications&cache=cache
http://www.uoregon.edu/~dogsci/directory/faculty/greg/publications

Yours,

Paul H.


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 11:49:40 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:49:40 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Juancheng, Kilabo, Bensour, New Orleans, Bassi,
	Sulagiri, Tamdakht, Chergach, Carancas, Oum Dreyga,
	Park Forest, Big Campo Irons, More!
Message-ID: <e51421551002140849x610494f3kddb7cc76cb569ad9@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings Collectors, Friends and Listees!

I have updated the Recent Falls Page (21st Century Meteorite Falls) to
reflect some new arrivals that are now available for sale as
micromounts - Kilabo, Bensour, and New Orleans.   Kilabo and Bensour
are in stock and ready for purchase.  My stock of New Orleans will be
arriving monday or tuesday, so reserve your's now - quantities on this
Louisiana hammer will be limited.

http://www.galactic-stone.com/pages/falls

Remember - use your Met-List discount to get 20% OFF your entire order
- this discount is good for everything in the store, including the
items listed below. (use coupon code "metlist" at checkout)

Speaking of hammers, I also have some new stock of Juancheng to offer.
 These are nicely-sized little micromount pieces with metal fleck and
some have crust.

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/Juancheng--Chinese-Hammer-Cookpot-Meteorite--1997_1242922.html

These are popular - 28 Different Meteorites Kit - An entire collection
of micromounts in one large 12x8 Riker box display -
http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/Meteorite-Collection--28-Different-Labelled-Specimens-in-a-Display_1217392.html

Looking for a big stable iron meteorite that is shaped like a shark
fin? - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/Campo-del-Cielo-Iron-Meteorite--Huge-Museum-Quality-44-Kilo-Mass_1233436.html

I also listed some new ammonite pairs that are gorgeous -
http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/Ammonites_226855/?page1

Thanks for looking and happy hunting!

MikeG


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 14:34:03 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:34:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Permian extinction
Message-ID: <658375.55384.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Paul - 

Any idea what set off the Siberian traps?

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 15:16:37 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:16:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] recent papers on the extinction of mammoths
Message-ID: <782270.43276.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Paul - 

The problem with the Indiana dates is that they were calibrated using a global calibration curve, when it is now demonstrated beyond doubt that there are significant regional variations caused by some neutron sources.
It is not known if these sources were impacts or supernova.

Late dates from Pribilov would not be surprising, given the late dates from Wrangle. There could be very good explanations for these, or again they may be erroneous dates caused by some neutron source. (Perhaps one connnected with the effects of the Earth's magnetic field, but who knows?)

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 15:18:54 2010
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:18:54 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] More Strewn Field Maps Gold Basin, Franconia,
	Holbrook
Message-ID: <80659e1a1002141218y208a367l8058be4a51e4f255@mail.gmail.com>

For all the beginers in on the list - you can thank me later : )

Don't be fooled it still won't be easy to find meteorites but this should help!

Here is the Strewn Field Page:
http://www.mr-meteorite.net/strewnfieldmaps.htm

-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From griff6495 at msn.com  Sun Feb 14 15:36:24 2010
From: griff6495 at msn.com (Floyd "Griff" Griffith)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:36:24 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Forwarded post from Chicago Steve Arnold
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP638F500B7C69B7C170ACA9B74B0@phx.gbl>

Hello and good day list.
Chicago Steve Arnold is having trouble posting to the list.
I have forwarded this to the list on his behalf.

Best to all,
Griff
Parker, Colorado


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "steve arnold" <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
To: <griff6495 at msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 3:38 PM


Hi griff and thanks for doing this. I am having trouble accessing the list 
and it might be an HTML thing.How do I get it to go away? Also 2 of my 3 
tucson pics are up on my website. Also I have 4 meteorites for sale. 
Unclassified CV3 complete stone $250, 166 gram canyon diablo $125, a 22 gram 
sikhot-alin with BIG hole $150,and a 9 gram slice of NWA 3161 LL3.7,NICE 
DARK CHONDRULES $150. I will have the other pic page up tomorrow.
Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/



From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 18:18:17 2010
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:18:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - new meteorite listings - howardite
Message-ID: <572093.98965.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hey, hope everyone is doing well.
A few things to offer:

I have listed some nice meteorite samples on ebay, you can see them here:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1

There are a few really nice samples that come with museum labels.

I will also be listing many more meteorites over the next couple days as I am trying to raise the funds needed to secure the building I am going to use for the museum and for other costs of opening it.

There is also a really nice possible Howardite, classification is currently underway. I will offer good prices on samples sold pre classification.
Pics available on request. 2 large end cuts 150+/- grams each are currently available. 
Same stuff that I posted thin section images from yesterday. contact me off list for more on this.

I still have some astronomy lasers (green and blue) for sale, $25 each.
(see website for pics)

Meteorite thin section coffee mugs for $12 each, these are AWESOME.
(11oz ceramic mugs with full wrap around images of thin sections)
Pics available on request, 6 to choose from, discount on full sets.

Thanks for looking, hope everyone has a good day!

Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites


      


From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 18:28:44 2010
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:28:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Do you collect excellent shape fresh chondite? AD
Message-ID: <483391.49249.qm@web45416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hey collector,
If you do, take a look at my wonderfull oriented monster by requesting pics, weight and price( very fair thought) .

Best
Aziz ( saffron guy)


      



From nakhladog at comcast.net  Sun Feb 14 18:42:36 2010
From: nakhladog at comcast.net (Rob Wesel)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:42:36 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - Mali as big as your hand,
	Brenham as big as your head
Message-ID: <AFF5F7A31F3C49D09F0F45100F7BCAA6@windows9bb74fe>

Hello all

These will be two to watch so I'm using the ad allowance to give everyone a 
week to move funds around.

http://shop.ebay.com/nakhladog/m.html

Happy Valentines day
Happy Chinese New Year

Rob Wesel
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
www.facebook.com/nakhladog
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 14 18:51:50 2010
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:51:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Almahatta Sitta wanted.
Message-ID: <22372223.1266191510697.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi List (those that deal,

I missed picking up a specimen of this fall while in Tucson last week. Send me pics of what you have for sale in 2 to 30 grams. Crusted individual...end cut...or full slice preferred. Beauty is in the beholding. Paper provenance, prep and display container mean a lot to me. Off List...of course!

Count Deiro 
 


From mpg4444 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 19:08:24 2010
From: mpg4444 at gmail.com (Michael Groetz)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:08:24 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Forwarded post from Chicago Steve Arnold
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP638F500B7C69B7C170ACA9B74B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP638F500B7C69B7C170ACA9B74B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <ad733151002141608ncfa71e2v93780200046eda15@mail.gmail.com>

Griff and list-
   It is a blessing in disguise!
   Just let well enough be!
   He's going to burst not being able to gloat and talk about himself.
If I had the money to spend like he must have- the dealers would like
me too (with a snicker on their face).
Mike


On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Floyd "Griff" Griffith
<griff6495 at msn.com> wrote:
> Hello and good day list.
> Chicago Steve Arnold is having trouble posting to the list.
> I have forwarded this to the list on his behalf.
>
> Best to all,
> Griff
> Parker, Colorado
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve arnold"
> <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
> To: <griff6495 at msn.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 3:38 PM
>
>
> Hi griff and thanks for doing this. I am having trouble accessing the list
> and it might be an HTML thing.How do I get it to go away? Also 2 of my 3
> tucson pics are up on my website. Also I have 4 meteorites for sale.
> Unclassified CV3 complete stone $250, 166 gram canyon diablo $125, a 22 gram
> sikhot-alin with BIG hole $150,and a 9 gram slice of NWA 3161 LL3.7,NICE
> DARK CHONDRULES $150. I will have the other pic page up tomorrow.
> Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 14 20:02:41 2010
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:02:41 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Forwarded post from Chicago Steve Arnold
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP638F500B7C69B7C170ACA9B74B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP638F500B7C69B7C170ACA9B74B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W38938172D99D394C24ADAA24A0@phx.gbl>


"Unclassified CV3 complete stone $250"??? 
 
Is this a paradox, an oxymoron or just plain BS?
 


----------------------------------------
> From: griff6495 at msn.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:36:24 -0700
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Forwarded post from Chicago Steve Arnold
>
> Hello and good day list.
> Chicago Steve Arnold is having trouble posting to the list.
> I have forwarded this to the list on his behalf.
>
> Best to all,
> Griff
> Parker, Colorado
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "steve arnold" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 3:38 PM
>
>
> Hi griff and thanks for doing this. I am having trouble accessing the list
> and it might be an HTML thing.How do I get it to go away? Also 2 of my 3
> tucson pics are up on my website. Also I have 4 meteorites for sale.
> Unclassified CV3 complete stone $250, 166 gram canyon diablo $125, a 22 gram
> sikhot-alin with BIG hole $150,and a 9 gram slice of NWA 3161 LL3.7,NICE
> DARK CHONDRULES $150. I will have the other pic page up tomorrow.
> Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/

From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 20:14:21 2010
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:14:21 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Metal Detectors and Meteorites for sale
Message-ID: <80659e1a1002141714s6d6ccddcud83fec0ce3346b9f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I have three metal detectors/accessories and lots of meteorites for
sale. I have found meteorites with all these detectors and they each
work great. Take a look!

http://shop.ebay.com/mr-meteorite/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686

-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 20:49:22 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:49:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Almahatta Sitta wanted.
In-Reply-To: <22372223.1266191510697.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <842618.75975.qm@web113609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hey Count.

Seigfried Haberer, who originally exported the only specimens available to the collector market (and almost all scientific research for that matter) and Anne Black are the only sources of this material right now. I don't think any dealers have purchased any more than enough for their personal collections, but I may be wrong.


--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Sun, 2/14/10, countdeiro at earthlink.net <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: countdeiro at earthlink.net <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Almahatta Sitta wanted.
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 4:51 PM
> Hi List (those that deal,
> 
> I missed picking up a specimen of this fall while in Tucson
> last week. Send me pics of what you have for sale in 2 to 30
> grams. Crusted individual...end cut...or full slice
> preferred. Beauty is in the beholding. Paper provenance,
> prep and display container mean a lot to me. Off List...of
> course!
> 
> Count Deiro 
>  
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From GeoZay at aol.com  Sun Feb 14 21:55:55 2010
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:55:55 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] test
Message-ID: <2798c.5e9e5955.38aa11bb@aol.com>

test #1
GeoZay  



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 22:04:49 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:04:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men versus The Jenna Jameson story on E!
Message-ID: <919726.83764.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

Instead of being in sunny Tucson, here is was freezing in Illinois,  reading your messages about what a wonderful time you were having, and watching tv, when low and behold, the latest chapter of Meteorite Men came on. But when the commercials came on, there was the Jenna Jameson Story on E!:

Ease it on in...
Don't wreck the boat...
I'm sweaty...
I don't want to waste another day walking up the hill again..
That's a big one...
Must be as big as an apple...

Ruben, I got it figured out. All you have to do is convine Jameson that doing a meteorite hunt will not chip her nails, and stardom awaits.

E.P.



      


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sun Feb 14 22:07:47 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:07:47 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
In-Reply-To: <4B75A2D5.4020205@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <927118.80541.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4B75A2D5.4020205@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <4B78BA83.1070101@meteoritesusa.com>

Funny, a meteorite list doesn't comment too much on a possible meteorite 
crater event.

chirp chirp go the crickets...


On 2/12/2010 10:49 AM, Meteorites USA wrote:
> Any word on the "crater"? There's no new news on it other than to 
> thought it was a Russian spy satellite crashing to Earth, and then 
> another report supposedly ruled that out. Other reports are saying it 
> never happened and there's no seismic data suggesting an event of this 
> magnitude.
>
> Any ideas, news?
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
>
> On 2/11/2010 1:04 PM, Richard Kowalski wrote:
>> Interesting that reports of a 30 meter crater was created, but USGS 
>> real time earthquake reporting doesn't show any event near the 
>> reported impact site...
>>
>> One would imagine such an impact would have set off the seismometers, 
>> no?
>>
>> Patiently waiting for video...
>> -- 
>> Richard Kowalski
>> Full Moon Photography
>> IMCA #1081
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 2/11/10, Darren Garrison<cynapse at charter.net>  wrote:
>>
>>> From: Darren Garrison<cynapse at charter.net>
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:41 PM
>>> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/11/breaking-mexican-meteorite-impact/ 
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at 
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 22:23:48 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:23:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Siliocone as a mounting agent?
Message-ID: <189993.23319.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

HI all - 

Going back through the e-mails, is there some kind of silicone which might work as a mounting tack?

E.P.


      


From GeoZay at aol.com  Sun Feb 14 22:23:41 2010
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:23:41 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold's Posting Problems
Message-ID: <2907d.4cc9392d.38aa183d@aol.com>

Well...this is my third attempt at sending this.  My test came thru, so 
hopefully three's a charm.  
--------------


Chicago Steve>>I am having trouble accessing  the list 
and it might be an HTML thing.How do I get it to go  away?<<

Hi Steve and anyone else that has this problem. I had  something just like 
this for a few years in the past. What solved it for me was  to do the 
following: Write whatever your message is in the email you want to  send to the 
list. When done, highlight the whole body of the message, then Right  Click 
your mouse. Look for , "Compose in Plain Text" or something similar and  
click on that. I noticed when I do that, my Font changes to Arial and then click 
 your "Send" button. That did it for me. I'm on aol, so you might have to 
look  for slightly different wording if you're not on aol.
GeoZay  



From minador at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 15 00:18:07 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:18:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] For those with Yahoo trouble (Was "Forwarded post
	from Chicago Steve Arnold")
Message-ID: <291531.7828.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hey Steve and all with yahoo.? When you reply or compose a message, look next to the "subject" section and you will either see "Rich Text" or "Plain Text".

If it says "Plain Text", it means you are composing your message in HTML (Rich Text).? Click on "Plain Text" (and "Rich Text" will be displayed).? When you see "Rich Text", it means you are composing your message in "Plain Text" and your message will make it to the list.

The bad thing about Yahoo is that if you receive a message in HTML and reply or forward it, that will change?your default email to HTML.? So before posting, you should really check what mode you are in.? This feature bugs me...? Outlook doesn't have this problem, but I'm often away from my home PC and sometimes forget to check it...

I hope this helps!

Mark B.
Vail, AZ

P.S.
I left the main Tucson show about 7:30 tonight (with a little tear in my eye...).?? It all started to sink in...? o(:?-/)?? o(;?-D)



----- Original Message ----
From: "Floyd "Griff" Griffith" <griff6495 at msn.com>
To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sun, February 14, 2010 1:36:24 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Forwarded post from Chicago Steve Arnold

Hello and good day list.
Chicago Steve Arnold is having trouble posting to the list.
I have forwarded this to the list on his behalf.

Best to all,
Griff
Parker, Colorado


----- Original Message ----- From: "steve arnold" <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
To: <griff6495 at msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 3:38 PM


Hi griff and thanks for doing this. I am having trouble accessing the list and it might be an HTML thing.How do I get it to go away? Also 2 of my 3 tucson pics are up on my website. Also I have 4 meteorites for sale. Unclassified CV3 complete stone $250, 166 gram canyon diablo $125, a 22 gram sikhot-alin with BIG hole $150,and a 9 gram slice of NWA 3161 LL3.7,NICE DARK CHONDRULES $150. I will have the other pic page up tomorrow.
Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From balisterjames at att.net  Mon Feb 15 00:24:47 2010
From: balisterjames at att.net (James Balister)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:24:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] test
Message-ID: <313453.9073.qm@web180101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Test----- Thanks Mark I have been trying? get on the list for a long time!?? 


From mmartin at meteoritetreasures.com  Sun Feb 14 21:45:07 2010
From: mmartin at meteoritetreasures.com (Matthew Martin)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:45:07 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Test - Ignore
Message-ID: <05DFAAAF-B9A7-4AE3-BC83-72AD882024E4@meteoritetreasures.com>

Test.  Please ignore this message.


From schroer at bigpond.com  Sun Feb 14 23:09:33 2010
From: schroer at bigpond.com (W&S Schroer)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:39:33 +1030
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Siliocone as a mounting agent?
Message-ID: <FCB62CA271BE4064ABF614E060575FA0@WERNER>

E.P., list,

for the last two years I've been using a product called Teroson manufactured 
by Henkel in Germany ( www.henkel-technologies.com ) for my minerals and 
meteorites. None of my specimens show seepage or any other trace of this 
material when removed.

I don't know anything about the impact it might have after more than two 
years.

Cheers
Werner Schroer 



From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Mon Feb 15 06:29:39 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (michael at rocksfromspace.org)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:29:39 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 15,
	2010
Message-ID: <574833445-1266233322-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-333681816-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_15_2010.html






__________________









Thumbed On My BlackBerry


From info at meteorites.com.au  Mon Feb 15 06:53:46 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:53:46 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sale Page Updated - Ad
Message-ID: <E20AB1C979D748A2AF3C59C8EDD0CE86@JeffPC>

Hi all,

A brief note to say that I have just updated my sale page with some odds and 
ends. I need to raise some funds for another stone so I'm open to offers on 
multiple pieces. Please feel free to email off list if you have any 
questions.

http://www.meteorites.com.au/sale.html

Cheers,

Jeff Kuyken
Meteorites Australia
www.meteorites.com.au




From axelsson at acc.umu.se  Mon Feb 15 07:15:47 2010
From: axelsson at acc.umu.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Axelsson?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:15:47 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] recent papers on the extinction of mammoths
In-Reply-To: <782270.43276.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <782270.43276.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B793AF3.5010309@acc.umu.se>

E.P. Grondine wrote:
> Hi Paul - 
>
> The problem with the Indiana dates is that they were calibrated using a global calibration curve, when it is now demonstrated beyond doubt that there are significant regional variations caused by some neutron sources.
> It is not known if these sources were impacts or supernova.
>   

[citation needed]

I have asked before and I repeat my question. In which publication is it 
"now demonstrated beyond doubt that there are significant regional 
variations caused by some neutron sources"?

And can you please make a copy and share with the list. You are claiming 
a lot but doesn't present any proof or references to any proof.

Respectfully, G?ran Axelsson

> Late dates from Pribilov would not be surprising, given the late dates from Wrangle. There could be very good explanations for these, or again they may be erroneous dates caused by some neutron source. (Perhaps one connnected with the effects of the Earth's magnetic field, but who knows?)
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>       
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 08:25:52 2010
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:25:52 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
In-Reply-To: <4B78BA83.1070101@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <927118.80541.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4B75A2D5.4020205@meteoritesusa.com>
	<4B78BA83.1070101@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <48AE1082-8327-4623-941E-8BA5B0009C66@gmail.com>

I've been thinking the same thing. But considering no pictures or  
followup has come out kinda makes you wonder. I'm thinking it's a  
crashed UFO or government plane or a Latvian hoax. If it was a  
meteorite wouldn't there be more coverage and some pics?



On Feb 14, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>  
wrote:

> Funny, a meteorite list doesn't comment too much on a possible  
> meteorite crater event.
>
> chirp chirp go the crickets...
>
>
> On 2/12/2010 10:49 AM, Meteorites USA wrote:
>> Any word on the "crater"? There's no new news on it other than to  
>> thought it was a Russian spy satellite crashing to Earth, and then  
>> another report supposedly ruled that out. Other reports are saying  
>> it never happened and there's no seismic data suggesting an event  
>> of this magnitude.
>>
>> Any ideas, news?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On 2/11/2010 1:04 PM, Richard Kowalski wrote:
>>> Interesting that reports of a 30 meter crater was created, but  
>>> USGS real time earthquake reporting doesn't show any event near  
>>> the reported impact site...
>>>
>>> One would imagine such an impact would have set off the  
>>> seismometers, no?
>>>
>>> Patiently waiting for video...
>>> -- 
>>> Richard Kowalski
>>> Full Moon Photography
>>> IMCA #1081
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 2/11/10, Darren Garrison<cynapse at charter.net>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Darren Garrison<cynapse at charter.net>
>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:41 PM
>>>> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/11/breaking-mexican-meteorite-impact/
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From GeoZay at aol.com  Mon Feb 15 10:06:55 2010
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:06:55 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
Message-ID: <58e1.44c1b647.38aabd0f@aol.com>

>>>But considering no pictures or   
followup has come out kinda makes you wonder. I'm thinking it's a   
crashed UFO...<<


What kind of UFO? Are you meaning of the  extraterrestrial kind?
GeoZay  



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 10:15:26 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:15:26 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
In-Reply-To: <48AE1082-8327-4623-941E-8BA5B0009C66@gmail.com>
References: <927118.80541.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4B75A2D5.4020205@meteoritesusa.com>
	<4B78BA83.1070101@meteoritesusa.com>
	<48AE1082-8327-4623-941E-8BA5B0009C66@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002150715o36f0b976h1b5654b893424665@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, I ask about Lorton and meteorite fall legalities and I get crickets also.

Maybe something off-topic would get a reply. ;)



On 2/15/10, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been thinking the same thing. But considering no pictures or
> followup has come out kinda makes you wonder. I'm thinking it's a
> crashed UFO or government plane or a Latvian hoax. If it was a
> meteorite wouldn't there be more coverage and some pics?
>
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Funny, a meteorite list doesn't comment too much on a possible
>> meteorite crater event.
>>
>> chirp chirp go the crickets...
>>
>>
>> On 2/12/2010 10:49 AM, Meteorites USA wrote:
>>> Any word on the "crater"? There's no new news on it other than to
>>> thought it was a Russian spy satellite crashing to Earth, and then
>>> another report supposedly ruled that out. Other reports are saying
>>> it never happened and there's no seismic data suggesting an event
>>> of this magnitude.
>>>
>>> Any ideas, news?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/11/2010 1:04 PM, Richard Kowalski wrote:
>>>> Interesting that reports of a 30 meter crater was created, but
>>>> USGS real time earthquake reporting doesn't show any event near
>>>> the reported impact site...
>>>>
>>>> One would imagine such an impact would have set off the
>>>> seismometers, no?
>>>>
>>>> Patiently waiting for video...
>>>> --
>>>> Richard Kowalski
>>>> Full Moon Photography
>>>> IMCA #1081
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Thu, 2/11/10, Darren Garrison<cynapse at charter.net>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Darren Garrison<cynapse at charter.net>
>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 12:41 PM
>>>>> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/11/breaking-mexican-meteorite-impact/
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From GeoZay at aol.com  Mon Feb 15 10:48:12 2010
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:48:12 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
Message-ID: <70c1.7440a0b7.38aac6bc@aol.com>

>>yes, of course the extraterrestrial  kind. (i was kidding in case you 
couldn't tell). <<

Whew! I didn't  see the smile on your face to tell. :O)
GeoZay  



From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:35:16 2010
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:35:16 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] For those with Yahoo trouble (Was "Forwarded
 post	from Chicago Steve Arnold")
In-Reply-To: <291531.7828.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <291531.7828.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W4828FF7AB9C520C80238B3D24A0@phx.gbl>


All:

I no longer use my yahoo account because of the problems.? I got a hotmail account and it has worked fine - just make sure it's "Plain Text."

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:18:07 -0800
> From: minador at yahoo.com
> To: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] For those with Yahoo trouble (Was "Forwarded post from Chicago Steve Arnold")
>
> Hey Steve and all with yahoo.  When you reply or compose a message, look next to the "subject" section and you will either see "Rich Text" or "Plain Text".
>
> If it says "Plain Text", it means you are composing your message in HTML (Rich Text).  Click on "Plain Text" (and "Rich Text" will be displayed).  When you see "Rich Text", it means you are composing your message in "Plain Text" and your message will make it to the list.
>
> The bad thing about Yahoo is that if you receive a message in HTML and reply or forward it, that will change your default email to HTML.  So before posting, you should really check what mode you are in.  This feature bugs me...  Outlook doesn't have this problem, but I'm often away from my home PC and sometimes forget to check it...
>
> I hope this helps!
>
> Mark B.
> Vail, AZ
>
> P.S.
> I left the main Tucson show about 7:30 tonight (with a little tear in my eye...).   It all started to sink in...  o(:?-/)   o(;?-D)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Floyd "Griff" Griffith" 
> To: meteorite-list 
> Sent: Sun, February 14, 2010 1:36:24 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Forwarded post from Chicago Steve Arnold
>
> Hello and good day list.
> Chicago Steve Arnold is having trouble posting to the list.
> I have forwarded this to the list on his behalf.
>
> Best to all,
> Griff
> Parker, Colorado
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve arnold" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 3:38 PM
>
>
> Hi griff and thanks for doing this. I am having trouble accessing the list and it might be an HTML thing.How do I get it to go away? Also 2 of my 3 tucson pics are up on my website. Also I have 4 meteorites for sale. Unclassified CV3 complete stone $250, 166 gram canyon diablo $125, a 22 gram sikhot-alin with BIG hole $150,and a 9 gram slice of NWA 3161 LL3.7,NICE DARK CHONDRULES $150. I will have the other pic page up tomorrow.
> Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/

From illaenus at wp.pl  Mon Feb 15 11:34:08 2010
From: illaenus at wp.pl (Tomasz Jakubowski)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:34:08 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Ureilite NWA 6069 on eBay
Message-ID: <4b7977806f5816.19842968@wp.pl>

Dear List Members

For those of You, who collect Ureilites (or primitive achondrites) I 
have a interesting auction of NWA 6069 Main Mass 1828 grams:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190372119665&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

You can also send Your offer to : illaenus at gmail.com



Kind Regards
Tomasz Jakubowski
IMCA #2321




From cynapse at charter.net  Mon Feb 15 12:52:40 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:52:40 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002150715o36f0b976h1b5654b893424665@mail.gmail.com>
References: <927118.80541.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4B75A2D5.4020205@meteoritesusa.com>
	<4B78BA83.1070101@meteoritesusa.com>
	<48AE1082-8327-4623-941E-8BA5B0009C66@gmail.com>
	<e51421551002150715o36f0b976h1b5654b893424665@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1e2jn5t2aijh54u6gl86vn75sm419rgd0v@4ax.com>

Nothing more was said because it turned out to be a big steaming pile of
nothing.


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Mon Feb 15 12:59:41 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:59:41 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?
In-Reply-To: <1e2jn5t2aijh54u6gl86vn75sm419rgd0v@4ax.com>
References: <927118.80541.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<4B75A2D5.4020205@meteoritesusa.com>	<4B78BA83.1070101@meteoritesusa.com>	<48AE1082-8327-4623-941E-8BA5B0009C66@gmail.com>	<e51421551002150715o36f0b976h1b5654b893424665@mail.gmail.com>
	<1e2jn5t2aijh54u6gl86vn75sm419rgd0v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4B798B8D.3020604@meteoritesusa.com>

How come no one said that it was a big steaming pile of nothing? Did I 
miss that post?

Regards,
Eric

On 2/15/2010 9:52 AM, Darren Garrison wrote:
> Nothing more was said because it turned out to be a big steaming pile of
> nothing.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 15 13:52:17 2010
From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:52:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] PV and Iron stability
Message-ID: <835189.60833.qm@web39605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello,

? Thanks to everyone who responded to my question concerning the state of their PV specimens. Stability was unanimous, with no one experiencing any problems with rusting.? :-)

? And that brings up a related question concerning stability that I might should already know the answer to, but do not: 

? Is PV's apparent rust-resistance for at least the last 10+ years (and hopefully many more) due SIMPLY to the fact that the specimens were recovered so quickly, and were spared exposure to, and penetration of, water for hundreds to thousands of years??And if so, are ALL freshly recovered irons (or "metal veined" as in the case of PV) just inherently stable?

? Or does inherent resistance to rusting vary from one meteorite to the next based more on the exact, specific chemical makeup of the iron and any particular find may or may not be prone to rusting regardless of how quickly it was recovered????

? Thanks in advance for any help with this,
? Robert Woolard
? 








      


From ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com  Mon Feb 15 13:56:15 2010
From: ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com (Matson, Robert D.)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:56:15 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mexican fall and Lorton, VA update
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002150715o36f0b976h1b5654b893424665@mail.gmail.com>
References: <927118.80541.qm@web113617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4B75A2D5.4020205@meteoritesusa.com><4B78BA83.1070101@meteoritesusa.com><48AE1082-8327-4623-941E-8BA5B0009C66@gmail.com>
	<e51421551002150715o36f0b976h1b5654b893424665@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702C5C6D2@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Hi Guys,

My take on the Mexico fall is that it obviously didn't produce a crater,
and since no images or video have shown up it may be some time before
the exact fall location is known. (By now, I assume most people know it
was NOT a reentering piece of Russian space debris.)

As for Lorton, as far as I know no finds beyond the doctor office
hammer stone have been recovered.  (And obviously nothing *could*
have been found in the last couple weeks as everything in the area
is buried under several feet of snow.)  I suppose if it gets warm
enough that roof snow starts melting, an inadvertent find might
be made as a result of a roof leak discovery.

--Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:15 AM
To: Mike Hankey
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Maybe a Mexican Carancas?

Yeah, I ask about Lorton and meteorite fall legalities and I get
crickets also.

Maybe something off-topic would get a reply. ;)



On 2/15/10, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been thinking the same thing. But considering no pictures or 
> followup has come out kinda makes you wonder. I'm thinking it's a 
> crashed UFO or government plane or a Latvian hoax. If it was a 
> meteorite wouldn't there be more coverage and some pics?
>
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Funny, a meteorite list doesn't comment too much on a possible 
>> meteorite crater event.
>>
>> chirp chirp go the crickets...
>>
>>
>> On 2/12/2010 10:49 AM, Meteorites USA wrote:
>>> Any word on the "crater"? There's no new news on it other than to 
>>> thought it was a Russian spy satellite crashing to Earth, and then 
>>> another report supposedly ruled that out. Other reports are saying 
>>> it never happened and there's no seismic data suggesting an event of

>>> this magnitude.
>>>
>>> Any ideas, news?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/11/2010 1:04 PM, Richard Kowalski wrote:
>>>> Interesting that reports of a 30 meter crater was created, but USGS

>>>> real time earthquake reporting doesn't show any event near the 
>>>> reported impact site...
>>>>
>>>> One would imagine such an impact would have set off the 
>>>> seismometers, no?
>>>>
>>>> Patiently waiting for video...
>>>> --
>>>> Richard Kowalski
>>>> Full Moon Photography
>>>> IMCA #1081


From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 15 14:03:51 2010
From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:03:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 15,
	2010
Message-ID: <439593.72823.qm@web39604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Michael and Michael,

? Great photos, guys! Thanks for sharing. Hard to belive it was a whole YEAR ago!!? What a blast it was.

? Congrats to Christopher for such a nice find.

? Best wishes,
? Robert Woolard 









      


From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Mon Feb 15 14:40:13 2010
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:40:13 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Birthday West
Message-ID: <B7F220EBFADD4F83A2437D8D4FF36E87@Bandli1>

I want to pay my respects to this life changing fall and all the incredible
friendships and life experiences made and gained as a result. I learned that
sometimes you need to just drop what you?re doing and go for it. For me,
West spawned a new life-long passion and set the stage for what would be a
very successful year of meteorite hunting around North America. I am truly
grateful for all the people that were a part of my experience in West: Rob
Wesel, Jason Phillips, Steve and Geoff, Patrick Thompson, and everyone else
that shared in the magic. Life is too short not to find meteorites. Go for
it!

Happy Birthday West!

-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA?#5765
-----------------------------------





From stelor96 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 15 14:50:52 2010
From: stelor96 at yahoo.com (Steve Witt)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:50:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] PV and Iron stability
In-Reply-To: <835189.60833.qm@web39605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <539247.56247.qm@web56406.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Robert,

Total speculation on my part, but the Met Society states that "Etching of centimeter-sized metal areas (of PV) reveals a fine Widmanst?tten pattern, bandwidth = 0.02 to 0.81 mm (average 0.32 mm). This bandwidth is comparable to Gibeon, which has always been considered a stable iron with a nickel content of 7.8 - 12.7% (even though it has been on the ground for some time. So my thought was with the quick recovery of PV as well as the higher nickel content in the metal veins, has resulted in the iron being very stable. Just my two cents worth. Maybe the pros can weigh in.

Regards,
Steve

 

--- On Mon, 2/15/10, Robert Woolard <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Robert Woolard <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] PV and Iron stability
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 12:52 PM
> Hello,
> 
> ? Thanks to everyone who responded to my question
> concerning the state of their PV specimens. Stability was
> unanimous, with no one experiencing any problems with
> rusting.? :-)
> 
> ? And that brings up a related question concerning
> stability that I might should already know the answer to,
> but do not: 
> 
> ? Is PV's apparent rust-resistance for at least the last
> 10+ years (and hopefully many more) due SIMPLY to the fact
> that the specimens were recovered so quickly, and were
> spared exposure to, and penetration of, water for hundreds
> to thousands of years??And if so, are ALL freshly recovered
> irons (or "metal veined" as in the case of PV) just
> inherently stable?
> 
> ? Or does inherent resistance to rusting vary from one
> meteorite to the next based more on the exact, specific
> chemical makeup of the iron and any particular find may or
> may not be prone to rusting regardless of how quickly it was
> recovered????
> 
> ? Thanks in advance for any help with this,
> ? Robert Woolard
> ? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      



From gsac at gmx.net  Mon Feb 15 16:23:21 2010
From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:23:21 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Show
In-Reply-To: <C79C5C6F.B75E%mlblood@cox.net>
References: <C79C5C6F.B75E%mlblood@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20100215212321.299370@gmx.net>

Thank you, Cap?n, also for providing a link here to Russ Finney?s 
excellent compilation of Tucson show pics. Well done, Russ, seems
you and all the rest of the bunch had a great time there...

Alex
Berlin/Germany



-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:41:03 -0800
> Von: Michael Blood <mlblood at cox.net>
> An: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson Show

> Hi all,
>         I finally got back from my Great Tucson Show
> Adventure..... Will spare you the gory details of
> 24hr breakdown, etc.
>         I WILL tell you that if you live in Tucson or
> EVER have any automotive problems near Tucson,
> You DEFINITELY want to get your repairs done at:
> Precision Auto & Transmission, 4729 E. 22nd, Tucson,AZ
> PH: 520.747.7287
> Ask for Pat and tell him I sent you - honest, very skilled
> And unbelievably modest in pricing. So very rare a
> Combination in the automotive repair biz.
>         Anyway, all absentee bidders have now been notified
> And the results of the Auction will be posted by Monday
> At the latest (there will be a link from the on line catalog
> Where the "PRINT" link is now).
>         Glad Chicago Steve got to see "a REAL auctioneer."
>         Other than the breakdown, this was a really sweet
> Show made particularly meaningful to me and Angel
> As my closest family member, my nephew, John and his 10
> Year old son, Jack made it out and we got to spend some super
> Quality time with our "Great Nephew" who calls me,
> "Gruncle Mike." I am most grateful to Geoff Notkin and
> All the other dealers who, I am told, were particularly
> Nice to him. 
>         I am also pleased to say I made a new friend (several,
> Really, but re this one..), Russ Finney, who has made a
> TERRIFIC overview of the Tucson Show in a photo array
> Of like 6 pages with commentary. Russ has excellent web
> Page skills and it reads like a photographic journal of the
> Tucson Show.
>         He gave me permission to share it with everyone - at:
> 
> http://www.meteoritecollector.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5208
> 
>         Best wishes, Michael
> 
>         
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 15 07:53:11 2010
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 04:53:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson pic pages
Message-ID: <308770.5928.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

All my tucson pic pages are up in my website.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From gsac at gmx.net  Mon Feb 15 18:05:08 2010
From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:05:08 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson pic pages
In-Reply-To: <308770.5928.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <308770.5928.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100215230508.308920@gmx.net>

Way to go, Mr. Big Steve! Thx for the pics!

Alex
Berlin/Germany



-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 04:53:11 -0800 (PST)
> Von: steve arnold <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: [meteorite-list] tucson pic pages

> All my tucson pic pages are up in my website.
> ?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From jnbran at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 15 18:22:35 2010
From: jnbran at yahoo.com (Jason Phillips)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:22:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: Incredible Esquel slice for sale
Message-ID: <248975.64020.qm@web45104.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hello List,
I am selling my 180 gram Esquel, pallasite, slice.  It is an incredible slice measuring 170mm X 148mm, that is in a natural form not cut down into a rectangle, square, or triangle.  This specimen has a high percentage of olivine thus creating such large surface area.  Accompanying this will be my collection label, as well as Bob Haag's and a display stand.  In discussing Esquel with Bob Haag before the Tucson show he stated that he is almost out of Esquel material that he is selling, making this a great purchase with potential for value increase.  If you have any questions or need a photo please let me know.  The price of this specimen is $16/gram, probably cheaper than it has been offered publicly in years.

Take Care and Thanks,
Jason Phillips
Rocks from Heaven



      



From cynapse at charter.net  Mon Feb 15 18:29:28 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:29:28 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] That's no moon, that's-- oh, wait...  Yeah,
	that's a moon.
In-Reply-To: <4b7977806f5816.19842968@wp.pl>
References: <4b7977806f5816.19842968@wp.pl>
Message-ID: <b4mjn59omcbf6ivd6ousvk3m1g922a9k8e@4ax.com>

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/15/the-raw-face-of-the-death-star-moon/


From gmhupe at htn.net  Mon Feb 15 19:24:53 2010
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:24:53 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee & Whetstone monograph Auctions - AD
Message-ID: <E5C04B04BC6D43CDB1414C1B55AD9D18@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

After returning from two weeks in Tucson, I thought I would get my feet 
'Whet' and start the week off with a few eBay auctions. Here are the direct 
links to these, more to follow later in the week:

Whetstone Mountains monograph 'Unlimited Edition' (a paperback documentary 
of Jack Schrader's epic discovery of the strewnfield, along with a small 
number of other hunters). Starting a just one penny, you may ask, "Why?". 
Simple, I purchased more than I needed to give to family and friends.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350317638956&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Buzzard Coulee H4 Meteorites w/ Legal Export Permits:
7.9 gram Individual with 98% fusion Crust (a beauty with slight start of 
lip-over).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350317664184&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

12.5 gram Individual with 85% Primary/15% Secondary fusion crust.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170446937806&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 19:52:39 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:52:39 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Submerged Meteorites - Methods of Retrieval
Message-ID: <e51421551002151652nfbe9beanf448ec9860895a8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Listees,

I was wondering about all of the meteorites that fall into the oceans
and large bodies of water.  Presumably, these meteorites are forever
lost because they will oxidize away completely, or they will be
entombed in sediments.  But, would it be possible for a trawler to
drag a big magnet across the ocean bottom (or other body of water) to
retrieve some of these meteorites before they are too far gone to
oxidation?  I know this notion seems silly at first, but would there
be underwater areas that would be more forgiving for this kind of
operation?  I can imagine some gigantic iron sitting on the bottom,
with a thick rind of oxidation around it, and it would stick to a huge
magnet for retrieval.

Is this idea silly, or is it something that could be attempted?  I
imagine it would be fruitless to just pick an area at random and start
trolling for meteorites, but if there was a suspected fall or other
reason to think that a particular area might be rich in meteorites,
would it be possible to get at them?

Best regards and happy huntings,

MikeG


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Mon Feb 15 21:18:55 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:18:55 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Submerged Meteorites - Methods of Retrieval
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002151652nfbe9beanf448ec9860895a8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e51421551002151652nfbe9beanf448ec9860895a8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7A008F.8030708@meteoritesusa.com>

Hey Mike,

It's not entirely crazy to think one could retrieve meteorites from the 
bottomw of the ocean. However, a marine expedition would most probably 
be cost prohibitive. The high costs of a boat, fuel, and crew, not to 
mention a specialized trawling mechanism/device that would allow you to 
locate meteorites via magnetism or perhaps an underwater metal detecting 
device would be so expensive it may outweigh the value of anything found 
if you were lucky enough to find anything at all. It's expensive enough 
to find meteorites on the surface of the Earth, imagine trying to find 
meteorites "sight unseen" in hundreds of feet of water. this is like 
flying over a desert 200 feet above the desert pavement in a hot air 
balloon and dragging magnets along behind you.

Now, having said how it's not likely feasible or worth it monetarily, it 
is possible. I remember reading about a trawler that found a rather 
large chondrite meteorite in their net. The cool thing was that it was 
in great shape. Deterioration of meteorites in salt water may happen 
slower than most people think.

 From what I've read about Antarctica meteorites have been falling into 
the ocean as the glaciers/ice shelf melt. I also read that glaciers that 
meet the ocean acts as a conveyor and drops meteorites in the ocean as 
pieces of ice fall off and melt. You can imagine a large chunk of ice 
floating away in the ocean holding within it large pieces of meteorite 
that fell thousands or millions of years ago. These icebergs would float 
with the currents until the iceberg enters warmer water and melts it 
would then release the meteorites to the bottom of the ocean.

If I were to trawl the ocean bottom, I'd get a map (chart in marine 
terms) of the area just north and east and west) of Antarctica. I'd then 
map the currents to find where icebergs would go to warmer water, then 
I'd trawl that area. Unfortunately that water may be SUPER deep and it 
would probably not be possible to get a length of cable long enough to 
trawl something that deep.

Again, costs are probably prohibitive, but I'm optimistic that somehow 
it is possible.

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA



On 2/15/2010 4:52 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
> Hi Listees,
>
> I was wondering about all of the meteorites that fall into the oceans
> and large bodies of water.  Presumably, these meteorites are forever
> lost because they will oxidize away completely, or they will be
> entombed in sediments.  But, would it be possible for a trawler to
> drag a big magnet across the ocean bottom (or other body of water) to
> retrieve some of these meteorites before they are too far gone to
> oxidation?  I know this notion seems silly at first, but would there
> be underwater areas that would be more forgiving for this kind of
> operation?  I can imagine some gigantic iron sitting on the bottom,
> with a thick rind of oxidation around it, and it would stick to a huge
> magnet for retrieval.
>
> Is this idea silly, or is it something that could be attempted?  I
> imagine it would be fruitless to just pick an area at random and start
> trolling for meteorites, but if there was a suspected fall or other
> reason to think that a particular area might be rich in meteorites,
> would it be possible to get at them?
>
> Best regards and happy huntings,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>    


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Mon Feb 15 21:39:34 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:39:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt -  February 15, 2009
Message-ID: <719467889.2757181266287974394.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/WTM.html

Regards,
Michael Johnson
http://www.rocksfromspace.org



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 15 21:57:00 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:57:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Submerged Meteorites - Methods of Retrieval
In-Reply-To: <4B7A008F.8030708@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <9443.58150.qm@web113611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Mike,

one could also consider piggy-backing on the mining of Manganese mining, but since this idea, where known mineral reserves are mined from the sea-floor has been shown to be unprofitable, having too many environmental restrictions, with taxes on the recovered minerals (yes, international taxes) would be prohibitive, I suspect any meteorites recovered by such a project, or by any other means would be worth the cost of effort and would not attract a single investor...

Interesting read about Deep Sea Manganese mining here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese_nodules


--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Mon, 2/15/10, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:

> From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Submerged Meteorites - Methods of Retrieval
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 7:18 PM
> Hey Mike,
> 
> It's not entirely crazy to think one could retrieve
> meteorites from the bottomw of the ocean. However, a marine
> expedition would most probably be cost prohibitive. The high
> costs of a boat, fuel, and crew, not to mention a
> specialized trawling mechanism/device that would allow you
> to locate meteorites via magnetism or perhaps an underwater
> metal detecting device would be so expensive it may outweigh
> the value of anything found if you were lucky enough to find
> anything at all. It's expensive enough to find meteorites on
> the surface of the Earth, imagine trying to find meteorites
> "sight unseen" in hundreds of feet of water. this is like
> flying over a desert 200 feet above the desert pavement in a
> hot air balloon and dragging magnets along behind you.
> 
> Now, having said how it's not likely feasible or worth it
> monetarily, it is possible. I remember reading about a
> trawler that found a rather large chondrite meteorite in
> their net. The cool thing was that it was in great shape.
> Deterioration of meteorites in salt water may happen slower
> than most people think.
> 
> From what I've read about Antarctica meteorites have been
> falling into the ocean as the glaciers/ice shelf melt. I
> also read that glaciers that meet the ocean acts as a
> conveyor and drops meteorites in the ocean as pieces of ice
> fall off and melt. You can imagine a large chunk of ice
> floating away in the ocean holding within it large pieces of
> meteorite that fell thousands or millions of years ago.
> These icebergs would float with the currents until the
> iceberg enters warmer water and melts it would then release
> the meteorites to the bottom of the ocean.
> 
> If I were to trawl the ocean bottom, I'd get a map (chart
> in marine terms) of the area just north and east and west)
> of Antarctica. I'd then map the currents to find where
> icebergs would go to warmer water, then I'd trawl that area.
> Unfortunately that water may be SUPER deep and it would
> probably not be possible to get a length of cable long
> enough to trawl something that deep.
> 
> Again, costs are probably prohibitive, but I'm optimistic
> that somehow it is possible.
> 
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/15/2010 4:52 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
> wrote:
> > Hi Listees,
> > 
> > I was wondering about all of the meteorites that fall
> into the oceans
> > and large bodies of water.? Presumably, these
> meteorites are forever
> > lost because they will oxidize away completely, or
> they will be
> > entombed in sediments.? But, would it be possible
> for a trawler to
> > drag a big magnet across the ocean bottom (or other
> body of water) to
> > retrieve some of these meteorites before they are too
> far gone to
> > oxidation?? I know this notion seems silly at
> first, but would there
> > be underwater areas that would be more forgiving for
> this kind of
> > operation?? I can imagine some gigantic iron
> sitting on the bottom,
> > with a thick rind of oxidation around it, and it would
> stick to a huge
> > magnet for retrieval.
> > 
> > Is this idea silly, or is it something that could be
> attempted?? I
> > imagine it would be fruitless to just pick an area at
> random and start
> > trolling for meteorites, but if there was a suspected
> fall or other
> > reason to think that a particular area might be rich
> in meteorites,
> > would it be possible to get at them?
> > 
> > Best regards and happy huntings,
> > 
> > MikeG
> > 
> > 
> >? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 15 22:04:48 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:04:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Submerged Meteorites - Methods of Retrieval
In-Reply-To: <9443.58150.qm@web113611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <593646.57212.qm@web113601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

[Sorry, hit send too soon]

Mike,

one could also consider piggy-backing on the mining of Manganese nodules, but since this idea, where known mineral reserves are mined from the sea-floor, has been shown to be unprofitable. The idea has too many environmental restrictions, and since the taxes on the recovered minerals (yes, international taxes) would be prohibitive, I suspect any meteorites recovered by such a project, or by any other means, would not be worth the cost or effort and would not attract a single investor...

Interesting read about Deep Sea Manganese mining here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese_nodules


--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


      


From gmhupe at htn.net  Mon Feb 15 21:45:14 2010
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:45:14 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt -  February 15, 2009
References: <719467889.2757181266287974394.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <F46602A480D3458EBA4F6EB4F5638DAF@Gregor>

Michael,
Thanks for all of your hard work putting together the Picture of the Day! 
Great stuff!

"Happy Birthday" West, Texas (Ash Creek) Meteorite! Lots of happy and 
smiling people during that hunt! Lets hope for another one like it soon!!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Johnson" <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009


> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/WTM.html
>
> Regards,
> Michael Johnson
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From almitt2 at localnet.com  Mon Feb 15 23:15:47 2010
From: almitt2 at localnet.com (almitt2 at localnet.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:15:47 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] PV and Iron stability
In-Reply-To: <539247.56247.qm@web56406.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <539247.56247.qm@web56406.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100215231547.zuekmhsb3qk0ocgc@webmail.localnet.com>

Hi Steve,

Good to see you on the list! Best!

--AL Mitterling

Quoting Steve Witt <stelor96 at yahoo.com>:

> Robert,
>
> Total speculation on my part, but the Met Society states that 
> "Etching of centimeter-sized metal areas (of PV) reveals a fine 
> Widmanst?tten pattern, bandwidth = 0.02 to 0.81 mm (average 0.32 mm). 
> This bandwidth is comparable to Gibeon, which has always been 
> considered a stable iron with a nickel content of 7.8 - 12.7% (even 
> though it has been on the ground for some time. So my thought was 
> with the quick recovery of PV as well as the higher nickel content in 
> the metal veins, has resulted in the iron being very stable. Just my 
> two cents worth. Maybe the pros can weigh in.
>
> Regards,
> Steve
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 2/15/10, Robert Woolard <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Robert Woolard <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] PV and Iron stability
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 12:52 PM
>> Hello,
>>
>> ? Thanks to everyone who responded to my question
>> concerning the state of their PV specimens. Stability was
>> unanimous, with no one experiencing any problems with
>> rusting.? :-)
>>
>> ? And that brings up a related question concerning
>> stability that I might should already know the answer to,
>> but do not:
>>
>> ? Is PV's apparent rust-resistance for at least the last
>> 10+ years (and hopefully many more) due SIMPLY to the fact
>> that the specimens were recovered so quickly, and were
>> spared exposure to, and penetration of, water for hundreds
>> to thousands of years??And if so, are ALL freshly recovered
>> irons (or "metal veined" as in the case of PV) just
>> inherently stable?
>>
>> ? Or does inherent resistance to rusting vary from one
>> meteorite to the next based more on the exact, specific
>> chemical makeup of the iron and any particular find may or
>> may not be prone to rusting regardless of how quickly it was
>> recovered????
>>
>> ? Thanks in advance for any help with this,
>> ? Robert Woolard
>> ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ? ? ?
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>





From cynapse at charter.net  Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:25:30 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuff
In-Reply-To: <719467889.2757181266287974394.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
References: <719467889.2757181266287974394.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <80bkn5p1vag1tqrdr2a9c1f58tkjbaaima@4ax.com>

http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html

Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic Compounds

By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET 

A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia, hasn't quit giving up its
secrets.

The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied space rocks because many
pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as it fell through the
atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the carbonaceous chondrite was
recovered.

Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to scientists as they were
formed from material that existed in the solar system's planet-forming disk of
gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules holding onto a 4 billion
year old record of the birth of our solar system.

In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us another clue as to the
abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the Earth had formed. In
fact, this particular meteorite may have originated from material older than our
sun.

"We are really excited. When I first studied it and saw the complexity I was so
amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the Institute for Ecological
Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.

"Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try to understand them you
are looking back in time."

This new research made use of high resolution spectroscopic tools to identify
the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite has provided scientists
with vast amounts of information about specific carbon-based organics before,
this was the first non-targeted study. In other words, the researchers weren't
tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a broad analysis for all the
chemicals it might contain.

And what they found came as a shock, it appears that the primordial solar system
probably had a higher chemical diversity than present-day Earth.

In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70 amino acids were
identified. But this number appears to be the tip of the iceberg; the meteorite
probably contains millions of different organic compounds. More detailed
analysis will now be carried out.

But why is this important? To understand the diversity of organic chemicals that
were floating around a primordial solar system will help us understand how life
may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of carbonaceous chondrite
drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar system, collecting all the
basic organic chemistry from around that time, does that mean diverse organic
chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star systems?

These organic compounds are known to exist on comets, asteroids and other
planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of life when everywhere else
seems to be lifeless?

If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning to "seed" young star
systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea. The conditions for life
may not be that rare after all.


From info at meteorites.com.au  Tue Feb 16 09:04:53 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 01:04:53 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scale Cube Auction - Serial No: WC#0100
Message-ID: <B243C8A7B4D04870B9BE0B2C324D317A@JeffPC>

Hi all,

I just raided my own personal collection of Tungsten Carbide Scale Cubes and 
listed the 100th cube on eBay. These are the cubes that sold out about a 
month ago. Don't snooze... it's a 3 day auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120531795226

Cheers,

Jeff Kuyken
Meteorites Australia
www.meteorites.com.au
www.scalecubes.com




From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Tue Feb 16 09:15:33 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (michael at rocksfromspace.org)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:15:33 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 16,
	2010
Message-ID: <3114763-1266329666-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-544759761-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_16_2010.html






_______________________








Thumbed On My BlackBerry


From rlenssen at planet.nl  Tue Feb 16 09:40:58 2010
From: rlenssen at planet.nl (Rob Lenssen)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:40:58 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Diogenite, L3 and Sikhote Alin
Message-ID: <7AAEBEDF4181478084D6FFB717E9D072@EIGENAARNJEQJY>

Hi List,

I have some slices of Diogenite (NWA 4755) and L3 (NWA's 5729 & 5730), and a 
Sikhote Alin individual for sale.
All are priced to sell quickly!

Please have a look at:
http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/Feb2010/Feb2010.html

Thanks,
Rob Lenssen
IMCA #1681 



From mafer at imagineopals.com  Tue Feb 16 09:49:27 2010
From: mafer at imagineopals.com (mafer at imagineopals.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:49:27 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
In-Reply-To: <3114763-1266329666-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-544759761-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <3114763-1266329666-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-544759761-@bda255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <20048cb5ae764604232e1f1078107b91@>

 http://cgi.ebay.com/Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil-BV-HC-RBC_W0QQitemZ130365214796QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5a5f504c




inventiveness usually captures someone sometime



From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 16 10:35:18 2010
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:35:18 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt -  February 15, 2009
In-Reply-To: <719467889.2757181266287974394.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
References: <719467889.2757181266287974394.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W17323B60ABC2F4D027CCEDD2490@phx.gbl>


Ahhh... the memories... takes me back.

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:39:34 -0800
> From: michael at rocksfromspace.org
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009
>
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/WTM.html
>
> Regards,
> Michael Johnson
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/

From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 16 10:47:09 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:47:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Best Selection Ever Available Ending On Ebay -
	MUST SEE!
Message-ID: <367609.76937.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,
 
Please be sure to check out this weeks auctions due to end this afternoon.  
You will find the best selection available anywhere of many rare and 
extraordinary specimens. There are 18 different planetary specimens all started 
at just 99 cents with no reserve.  Then you will see that I listed 18 very rare 
types and also started them out at just 99 cents. You will not find a 
better selection on eBay where items tend to sell for less than half the price 
you will find on any website.  To top it off, there are some great falls and finds!
    
All Auctions Can Be Found At This link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ


Some Planetary Highlights, All Started At Just 99 Cents:
 
Very nice .330 gram part slice of Martian meteorite DAG 735:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140382230253
 
Great .194 gram thinly cut part slice of Lunar meteorite Dhofar 911:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140382231638
 
Awesome .262 gram thinly cut part slice of Lunar meteorite Dhofar 
1085:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200437857717
 
Largest Piece Left - .780 gram part slice of Martian meteorite NWA 
1068:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200437863410
 
Rare - .248 gram thinly cut part slice of Martian meteorite NWA 1195:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200437863836
 
Fantastic - .278 gram part slice of Lunar meteorite NWA 3163:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140382240261
 
Must See - .246 gram part slice of Martian meteorite NWA 4468:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200437869804
 
Ultra Rare - .224 gram thinly cut part slice of Lunar meteorite NWA 
4884:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140382243776
 
Legendary - .482 gram part slice of Lunar meteorite NWA 5000:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140382244149
 
Scarce - .242 gram thinly cut part slice of Lunar meteorite NWA 5406:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140382244964
 
And many more...
 
Some Very Rare Classification Highlights:

Pontfini-like Winoniate NWA 516 - The only one available to the public- 
Very Low TKW:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200437861168
 
Bottled Water NWA 969:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140382236305
 
CK3 - NWA 1694:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200437864520
 
Real Brachinite - NWA 3151:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200437868175


Zaklodzie-like Ungrouped - NWA 4301:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200437869152
 
Lodranite - NWA 4478:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200437870697
 
Parent Body Unknown - NWA 4578 - Paired to Record Setting NWA 011:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200437871176
 
Angrite - NWA 4590:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200437871495
 
Very Last Piece of Strange Howardite - NWA 5742:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140382245700
 
Example of one of the very last NWA 869 lots still available, half of the 
lots I listed last week have already been sold:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140383812638
 
 
...And many more great examples can be found at this link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

Thank 
you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck.
 

Best Regards,

------------------------------------
Adam 
Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
raremeteorites at yahoo.com


From wahlperry at aol.com  Tue Feb 16 10:57:19 2010
From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:57:19 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] PV and Iron stability
In-Reply-To: <835189.60833.qm@web39605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <835189.60833.qm@web39605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CC7D37DA9AD69B-1F5C-103DF@webmail-d041.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Rob and list,

The Portales Valley meteorite that we recovered was in remarkable 
condition. The meteorite only had a small portion buried in the dirt, 
the remainder exposed to the elements. There was very little surface 
rust. The PV meteorite was cut with well water and allowed to dry. The 
cut surface appeared to have rust stains along the interior in numerous 
locations. Upon closer inspection they were actually crystal structures 
/ apatite. The cut surface has been left untouched since cutting and 
still shows no signs of significant  weathering.


Sonny


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Woolard <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 10:52 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] PV and Iron stability


Hello,? Thanks to everyone who responded to my question concerning the 
state of their PV specimens. Stability was unanimous, with no one 
experiencing any problems with rusting.? :-)? And that brings up a 
related question concerning stability that I might should already know 
the answer to, but do not: ? Is PV's apparent rust-resistance for at 
least the last 10+ years (and hopefully many more) due SIMPLY to the 
fact that the specimens were recovered so quickly, and were spared 
exposure to, and penetration of, water for hundreds to thousands of 
years??And if so, are ALL freshly recovered irons (or "metal veined" as 
in the case of PV) just inherently stable?? Or does inherent resistance 
to rusting vary from one meteorite to the next based more on the exact, 
specific chemical makeup of the iron and any particular find may or may 
not be prone to rusting regardless of how quickly it was recovered????? 
Thanks in advance for any help with this,? Robert Woolard?       
______________________________________________Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list 
mailing 
listMeteorite-list at meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li
stinfo/meteorite-list
  


From bandk at chorus.net  Tue Feb 16 11:10:08 2010
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:10:08 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] FOR SALE: L@@K ON EBAY (3) Different Meteorites
	ranging from 22.9 g to 42.5 g
Message-ID: <50CDF928665C4913B35BBE96069AFFFD@owner55652f88b>

Hi Everyone,
I have three nifty Meteorites up for sale on ebay. They are all great medium 
sized pieces. All are in perfect shape showing flecks of metal throughout. 
MANY inclusions/chondrules in the Wadi Mellene piece too.

1.Wadi Mellene  22.9 gram cut slice piece.
Very  very nice slice  ebay # 120531662473

2. NWA 869  42.5 gram cut piece.
Shaped just like a big square tootsie roll.
ebay # 120531666811

3. NWA 349  23.2 gram cut piece.
ebay # 120531670198
nice piece---shows flecks of metal

Thank you much for looking!!
Best,
Kirk.......:-)






From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 16 11:14:14 2010
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:14:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
Message-ID: <10072449.1266336854289.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I would like to see someone, or an organization with credentials, put a hurt on this scam artist with eBay. These bogus offerings don't do any of you legitimate dealers any good. Not at all.

Count Deiro 

-----Original Message-----
>From: mafer at imagineopals.com
>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 9:49 AM
>To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil-BV-HC-RBC_W0QQitemZ130365214796QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5a5f504c
>
>
>
>
>inventiveness usually captures someone sometime
>
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 11:22:37 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:22:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
In-Reply-To: <10072449.1266336854289.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <10072449.1266336854289.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <e51421551002160822u3fb75de2kc630a4d39a8ef9b0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Count and List,

This person has been listing different variations of this same
"meteorite" for months now.  I'm not sure how many he has actually
sold.  But the scary thing is, go to his About Me page and then go to
his blog.  His blog is a long, rambling affair - he is absolutely
convinced that these materials are genuine and contain "blood vessels"
and fossils.  He has also found "blood vessels" in a specimen that is
obviously an etched iron meteorite (looks like Gibeon or
Muonionalusta), but the majority of his specimens are definitely not
meteorites.  I don't think this person is an outright scammer.  I
think this person is deluded and actually believes his own story.
These are the hardest types to deal with.  Someone who is blatantly
lying and trying to pull a scam can be dissuaded with a threat of
imminent legal action.  But deluded people will not be dissuaded with
silly things like fact and reality - they will view any attempt to
educate them (or stop them) as persecution for their unorthodox
beliefs.  This is not unlike the nutjob who keeps bombarding List
members (notably Randy Korotev) with offers for his bogus lunaites.

The best cure for this seller of martian blood vessel meteorites is
medication, electroshock, or lobotomy. ;)

Best regards,

MikeG


On 2/16/10, countdeiro at earthlink.net <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I would like to see someone, or an organization with credentials, put a hurt
> on this scam artist with eBay. These bogus offerings don't do any of you
> legitimate dealers any good. Not at all.
>
> Count Deiro
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: mafer at imagineopals.com
>>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 9:49 AM
>>To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil-BV-HC-RBC_W0QQitemZ130365214796QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5a5f504c
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>inventiveness usually captures someone sometime
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 16 11:23:28 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:23:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
In-Reply-To: <10072449.1266336854289.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <10072449.1266336854289.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <747524.36155.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

He even claims one has a BV fossil.  If there are Bi-Valves on Mars, I surprised one of the rovers hasn't been squirted yet and I thought NASA had thought of everything.  

http://cgi.ebay.com/Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-ball-containing-BV-fossil_W0QQitemZ130366619789QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5a74c08d


Best Regards,

Adam


From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 16 11:34:53 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:34:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
In-Reply-To: <747524.36155.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <10072449.1266336854289.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<747524.36155.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <336682.67843.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

My bad, I guess BV stood Blood Vessels instead of Bi-Valves. Oh well, I guess the remaining rover cannot pull into the goeduck car wash for a solar panel cleaning.

Best Regards,

Adam


----- Original Message ----

From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
To: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tue, February 16, 2010 8:23:28 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil

He even claims one has a BV fossil.  If there are Bi-Valves on Mars, I surprised one of the rovers hasn't been squirted yet and I thought NASA had thought of everything.  

http://cgi.ebay.com/Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-ball-containing-BV-fossil_W0QQitemZ130366619789QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5a74c08d


Best Regards,

Adam
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 11:36:58 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:36:58 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
In-Reply-To: <336682.67843.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <10072449.1266336854289.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<747524.36155.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<336682.67843.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002160836u6a725a00ma495ccd8ad5635f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Adam,

Maybe it's Bi-Valve Blood Vessels? ;)

Best regards,

MikeG


On 2/16/10, Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
> My bad, I guess BV stood Blood Vessels instead of Bi-Valves. Oh well, I
> guess the remaining rover cannot pull into the goeduck car wash for a solar
> panel cleaning.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adam
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>
> From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> To: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tue, February 16, 2010 8:23:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
>
> He even claims one has a BV fossil.  If there are Bi-Valves on Mars, I
> surprised one of the rovers hasn't been squirted yet and I thought NASA had
> thought of everything.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-ball-containing-BV-fossil_W0QQitemZ130366619789QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5a74c08d
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adam
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 11:38:06 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:38:06 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
In-Reply-To: <10072449.1266336854289.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <10072449.1266336854289.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <e51421551002160838g36fa9ea3we5c7c27be68b893f@mail.gmail.com>

See his blog here -
http://wretchfossil.blogspot.com/2009/09/carboniferous-human-leg-bone.html

Be afraid.  Be very afraid. ;)



On 2/16/10, countdeiro at earthlink.net <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I would like to see someone, or an organization with credentials, put a hurt
> on this scam artist with eBay. These bogus offerings don't do any of you
> legitimate dealers any good. Not at all.
>
> Count Deiro
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: mafer at imagineopals.com
>>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 9:49 AM
>>To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil-BV-HC-RBC_W0QQitemZ130365214796QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5a5f504c
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>inventiveness usually captures someone sometime
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 16 12:29:01 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:29:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] New YD impact evidence; AD
Message-ID: <903886.35728.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Paul, everyone - 

http://cosmictusk.com/tom-stafford-texas-hill-country-paleo-site-littered-with-evidence-at-the-younger-dryas

As always, personally signed copies of my book "Man and Impact in the Americas are available to meteorite list members for $20 plus $5 US shipping or plus $15 overseas shipping. Sorry, no paypal, as the hackers have been merciless. Contact me off list for particulars. I am also looking for shop owners that may want to carry it. A nice review by one of the US's top specialists in Native American archaeology may be found here:
http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2414

Fair warnings: since most of the impacts were cometary, its no hunting guide for meteorites. The book also features too small type, not enough illustrations, and many typos.

good hunting,
Ed "E.P." Grondine



      


From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 16 12:56:27 2010
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:56:27 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002160838g36fa9ea3we5c7c27be68b893f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <10072449.1266336854289.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>,
	<e51421551002160838g36fa9ea3we5c7c27be68b893f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W3325811BD42DF6B39AB4CAD2490@phx.gbl>


Truly amazing what limestone and concretions can appear like. I think this person just wants it so bad, that he creates the images in his mind and then convinces himself that he has the artifact.? I like the baseball cap on the human skull - nice!.

I once found a piece of chert, or chalcedony in Arizona and it looked exactly like the end of a bone; for months I convinced myself it was a fossilized bone.? I even showed it to people and convinced them.? I finally took it to a University and they brought me back to earth.? Sometimes you just want something so bad you delude yourself.

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:38:06 -0500
> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com
> To: countdeiro at earthlink.net
> CC: mafer at imagineopals.com; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
>
> See his blog here -
> http://wretchfossil.blogspot.com/2009/09/carboniferous-human-leg-bone.html
>
> Be afraid. Be very afraid. ;)
>
>
>
> On 2/16/10, countdeiro at earthlink.net  wrote:
>> I would like to see someone, or an organization with credentials, put a hurt
>> on this scam artist with eBay. These bogus offerings don't do any of you
>> legitimate dealers any good. Not at all.
>>
>> Count Deiro
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: mafer at imagineopals.com
>>>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 9:49 AM
>>>To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
>>>
>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil-BV-HC-RBC_W0QQitemZ130365214796QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5a5f504c
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>inventiveness usually captures someone sometime
>>>
>>>______________________________________________
>>>Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/

From freequarks at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 13:12:49 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:12:49 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] PV and Iron stability
In-Reply-To: <835189.60833.qm@web39605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <835189.60833.qm@web39605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a1002161012t76947096o8283831359d32068@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Robert and all,

My PV slice is still spotless.

Regarding the Widmanstatten pattern, remember back in '06, Tom
Phillips and I spent some time with his polisher and microscope. We
polished my slice to the point where we could see the plate boundaries
without any chemical etching. Other cool features were also visible.
Here's the link to Tom's article on the PV:

http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2006/September/Micro_Visions.htm

Best,

Martin





On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Robert Woolard
<meteoritefinder at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> ? Thanks to everyone who responded to my question concerning the state of their PV specimens. Stability was unanimous, with no one experiencing any problems with rusting.? :-)
>
> ? And that brings up a related question concerning stability that I might should already know the answer to, but do not:
>
> ? Is PV's apparent rust-resistance for at least the last 10+ years (and hopefully many more) due SIMPLY to the fact that the specimens were recovered so quickly, and were spared exposure to, and penetration of, water for hundreds to thousands of years??And if so, are ALL freshly recovered irons (or "metal veined" as in the case of PV) just inherently stable?
>
> ? Or does inherent resistance to rusting vary from one meteorite to the next based more on the exact, specific chemical makeup of the iron and any particular find may or may not be prone to rusting regardless of how quickly it was recovered?
>
> ? Thanks in advance for any help with this,
> ? Robert Woolard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 16 13:19:09 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:19:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Muchison.....
Message-ID: <873024.82174.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Darren?and List
?
Thank you for the read?up on Murchison meteorite on how scientist have identified over 14,000 compounds and counting. While we are on the topic of Murchison meteorite, I came?across an article on line that?points out these interesting facts and finds on the Murchison as?quoted from the article as follows....?
?
"Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago. 
"The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are older than the solar system."
?But just how old? 
Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the Murchison meteorite, which is well-known for the 
organic material it contains, and measured how long the grains spent in interstellar space before winding up 
in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages, reported in a recent paper of the Astrophysical Journal, 
appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the 
Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
?
"From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate that the majority of grains spent between 3 
and 200 million years in interstellar space before falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion 
years ago."
?
?
Here is the link to the article I found on line.
http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
?
and if your up for a read, here is an article on the age of?presolar SiC grains found in Murchison meteorite.
?
http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
?
Enjoy
Shawn Alan
?
?
?
[meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren Garrison cynapse at charter.net 
Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010 


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http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html 

Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic Compounds 

By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET 

A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia, hasn't quit giving up its 
secrets. 

The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied space rocks because many 
pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as it fell through the 
atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the carbonaceous chondrite was 
recovered. 

Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to scientists as they were 
formed from material that existed in the solar system's planet-forming disk of 
gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules holding onto a 4 billion 
year old record of the birth of our solar system. 

In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us another clue as to the 
abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the Earth had formed. In 
fact, this particular meteorite may have originated from material older than our 
sun. 

"We are really excited. When I first studied it and saw the complexity I was so 
amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the Institute for Ecological 
Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany. 

"Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try to understand them you 
are looking back in time." 

This new research made use of high resolution spectroscopic tools to identify 
the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite has provided scientists 
with vast amounts of information about specific carbon-based organics before, 
this was the first non-targeted study. In other words, the researchers weren't 
tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a broad analysis for all the 
chemicals it might contain. 

And what they found came as a shock, it appears that the primordial solar system 
probably had a higher chemical diversity than present-day Earth. 

In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70 amino acids were 
identified. But this number appears to be the tip of the iceberg; the meteorite 
probably contains millions of different organic compounds. More detailed 
analysis will now be carried out. 

But why is this important? To understand the diversity of organic chemicals that 
were floating around a primordial solar system will help us understand how life 
may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of carbonaceous chondrite 
drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar system, collecting all the 
basic organic chemistry from around that time, does that mean diverse organic 
chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star systems? 

These organic compounds are known to exist on comets, asteroids and other 
planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of life when everywhere else 
seems to be lifeless? 

If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning to "seed" young star 
systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea. The conditions for life 
may not be that rare after all. 



From freequarks at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 14:24:06 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:24:06 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Muchison.....
In-Reply-To: <873024.82174.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <873024.82174.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a1002161124ke1f7fb9qff4bc7262f863355@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Shawn and all,

I've heard that a back-of-the-envelope calculation of the presolar
diamonds in meteorites could push the age limits to 10 billion years
ago. Not quite the Big Bang, but you can see it from there.

This number comes from the adding the age of our solar system (when
the diamonds were captured in our home material), to the age of a
star-centered solar system that could have created the diamonds in the
first place. Similar to a conceptual extension of the line in the
linked .pdf where it says, "For example, some small diamond crystals
in meteorites have high levels of heavy xenon isotopes that imply that
they originated from a supernova explosion."

Best,

Martin





On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Darren?and List
>
> Thank you for the read?up on Murchison meteorite on how scientist have identified over 14,000 compounds and counting. While we are on the topic of Murchison meteorite, I came?across an article on line that?points out these interesting facts and finds on the Murchison as?quoted from the article as follows....
>
> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are older than the solar system."
> ?But just how old?
> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the Murchison meteorite, which is well-known for the
> organic material it contains, and measured how long the grains spent in interstellar space before winding up
> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages, reported in a recent paper of the Astrophysical Journal,
> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>
> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate that the majority of grains spent between 3
> and 200 million years in interstellar space before falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
> years ago."
>
>
> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>
> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the age of?presolar SiC grains found in Murchison meteorite.
>
> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>
> Enjoy
> Shawn Alan
>
>
>
> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren Garrison cynapse at charter.net
> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>
>
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009
> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>
> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic Compounds
>
> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>
> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia, hasn't quit giving up its
> secrets.
>
> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied space rocks because many
> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as it fell through the
> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the carbonaceous chondrite was
> recovered.
>
> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to scientists as they were
> formed from material that existed in the solar system's planet-forming disk of
> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules holding onto a 4 billion
> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>
> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us another clue as to the
> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the Earth had formed. In
> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated from material older than our
> sun.
>
> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and saw the complexity I was so
> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the Institute for Ecological
> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>
> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try to understand them you
> are looking back in time."
>
> This new research made use of high resolution spectroscopic tools to identify
> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite has provided scientists
> with vast amounts of information about specific carbon-based organics before,
> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words, the researchers weren't
> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a broad analysis for all the
> chemicals it might contain.
>
> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that the primordial solar system
> probably had a higher chemical diversity than present-day Earth.
>
> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70 amino acids were
> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of the iceberg; the meteorite
> probably contains millions of different organic compounds. More detailed
> analysis will now be carried out.
>
> But why is this important? To understand the diversity of organic chemicals that
> were floating around a primordial solar system will help us understand how life
> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of carbonaceous chondrite
> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar system, collecting all the
> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does that mean diverse organic
> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star systems?
>
> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets, asteroids and other
> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of life when everywhere else
> seems to be lifeless?
>
> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning to "seed" young star
> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea. The conditions for life
> may not be that rare after all.
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 16 14:25:51 2010
From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:25:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] PV, and Apatite or Merrillite
Message-ID: <918460.20530.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

 Sonny, Martin, Charlie and others,

? Thanks to all who continue to report in on the condition of their PV specimens. Of all those that have responded, only one person has stated that his piece has a couple of small spots of oxidation, and as he added: " I had to look good, you understand, the slice still looks great." But, I am going to contact that collector privately and ask him? " IF "? it might NOT be rust after all, and perhaps could be explained by the following from Sonny: 

?? " The cut surface appeared to have rust stains along the interior in numerous locations. Upon closer inspection they were actually crystal structures / apatite." 

? I definitely know what Sonny is talking about here. I vividly remember the first time I saw either apatite (or perhaps more likely, MERRILLITE---see below) crystals in the cut face of a PV slice. I immediately thought it was a small area of rust, but just as Sonny reports, I discovered its true nature upon closer examination. 

 Below is part of an article in the May 1999 issue of Meteorite magazine on phosphates in the Portales Valley meteorite that might explain how very tiny "spots of what appear to be rust" might actually be the yellow grains of merrillite?????

? " Maybe one of the most spectacular meteorites to have fallen to earth is the anomalous Portales Valley chondrite that touched ground in New Mexico in June 1998. It show chondritic clasts of ( H type ) that are embedded in metal veins. In slabbed samples, this attractive and unusual texture is very striking. On cut surfaces, one may also notice some gray and YELLOW, glassy grains situated between metal and chondrite...... The gray grains yield a spectrum typical of apatite, a calcium phosphate that was known from meteorites before but is rare in this size. The YELLOW mineral turns out to be? be merrillite, a very rare mineral only known in small quantities and sizes from a few meteorites ( such as Allegan, Bjurbole, Homestead, Shergotty, Waconda, and a few others).... It turns out that Portales Valley may have just gotten even more interesting: A chondrite containing the largest know merrillite crystal grains known!" 
? Meteorite, May 1999

???I may be way off base on this, but it is my belief that what I first thought to be very tiny spots on PV slices are in fact the yellow grains of merrillite( or perhaps apatite, as Sonny states).

???Once again, I would appreciate any thoughts from others on this.???

? Sincerely,
? Robert Woolard















      


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 16 14:36:48 2010
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:36:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
Message-ID: <24244987.1266349009103.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Your right. I never even thought of that aspect. This person could have a big time personality disorder and come looking for whomever was getting in his way. Lot of paranoid schizophrenics out there.

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536

-----Original Message-----
>From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 11:22 AM
>To: countdeiro at earthlink.net
>Cc: mafer at imagineopals.com, Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
>
>Hi Count and List,
>
>This person has been listing different variations of this same
>"meteorite" for months now.  I'm not sure how many he has actually
>sold.  But the scary thing is, go to his About Me page and then go to
>his blog.  His blog is a long, rambling affair - he is absolutely
>convinced that these materials are genuine and contain "blood vessels"
>and fossils.  He has also found "blood vessels" in a specimen that is
>obviously an etched iron meteorite (looks like Gibeon or
>Muonionalusta), but the majority of his specimens are definitely not
>meteorites.  I don't think this person is an outright scammer.  I
>think this person is deluded and actually believes his own story.
>These are the hardest types to deal with.  Someone who is blatantly
>lying and trying to pull a scam can be dissuaded with a threat of
>imminent legal action.  But deluded people will not be dissuaded with
>silly things like fact and reality - they will view any attempt to
>educate them (or stop them) as persecution for their unorthodox
>beliefs.  This is not unlike the nutjob who keeps bombarding List
>members (notably Randy Korotev) with offers for his bogus lunaites.
>
>The best cure for this seller of martian blood vessel meteorites is
>medication, electroshock, or lobotomy. ;)
>
>Best regards,
>
>MikeG
>
>
>On 2/16/10, countdeiro at earthlink.net <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I would like to see someone, or an organization with credentials, put a hurt
>> on this scam artist with eBay. These bogus offerings don't do any of you
>> legitimate dealers any good. Not at all.
>>
>> Count Deiro
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: mafer at imagineopals.com
>>>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 9:49 AM
>>>To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil
>>>
>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Martian-Fossil-Meteorite-containing-fossil-BV-HC-RBC_W0QQitemZ130365214796QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5a5f504c
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>inventiveness usually captures someone sometime
>>>
>>>______________________________________________
>>>Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Mike Gilmer
>http://www.galactic-stone.com
>http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>------------------------------------------------------------



From Midwest at Meteorman.org  Tue Feb 16 15:00:23 2010
From: Midwest at Meteorman.org (Timothy  Heitz)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:00:23 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Muchison.....
References: <873024.82174.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8BCA78CDAC554D2DB0C105B814AD8A14@den>

Hi Shawn,

Thanks for the updated information about Murchison

Tim Heitz



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>
To: <cynapse at charter.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:19 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Muchison.....


Darren and List

Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on how scientist have 
identified over 14,000 compounds and counting. While we are on the topic of 
Murchison meteorite, I came across an article on line that points out these 
interesting facts and finds on the Murchison as quoted from the article as 
follows....

"Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar system," says Philipp 
Heck of the University of Chicago.
"The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are older than the solar 
system."
But just how old?
Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the Murchison meteorite, 
which is well-known for the
organic material it contains, and measured how long the grains spent in 
interstellar space before winding up
in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages, reported in a recent 
paper of the Astrophysical Journal,
appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system formed after a smaller 
satellite galaxy crashed into the
Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......

"From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate that the majority of 
grains spent between 3
and 200 million years in interstellar space before falling into our 
molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
years ago."


Here is the link to the article I found on line.
http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf

and if your up for a read, here is an article on the age of presolar SiC 
grains found in Murchison meteorite.

http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf

Enjoy
Shawn Alan



[meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren Garrison cynapse at 
charter.net
Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010


Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 
2009
Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html

Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic Compounds

By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET

A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia, hasn't quit giving up 
its
secrets.

The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied space rocks because many
pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as it fell through the
atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the carbonaceous chondrite was
recovered.

Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to scientists as they were
formed from material that existed in the solar system's planet-forming disk 
of
gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules holding onto a 4 
billion
year old record of the birth of our solar system.

In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us another clue as to the
abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the Earth had formed. In
fact, this particular meteorite may have originated from material older than 
our
sun.

"We are really excited. When I first studied it and saw the complexity I was 
so
amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the Institute for Ecological
Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.

"Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try to understand them 
you
are looking back in time."

This new research made use of high resolution spectroscopic tools to 
identify
the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite has provided 
scientists
with vast amounts of information about specific carbon-based organics 
before,
this was the first non-targeted study. In other words, the researchers 
weren't
tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a broad analysis for all 
the
chemicals it might contain.

And what they found came as a shock, it appears that the primordial solar 
system
probably had a higher chemical diversity than present-day Earth.

In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70 amino acids were
identified. But this number appears to be the tip of the iceberg; the 
meteorite
probably contains millions of different organic compounds. More detailed
analysis will now be carried out.

But why is this important? To understand the diversity of organic chemicals 
that
were floating around a primordial solar system will help us understand how 
life
may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of carbonaceous chondrite
drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar system, collecting all 
the
basic organic chemistry from around that time, does that mean diverse 
organic
chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star systems?

These organic compounds are known to exist on comets, asteroids and other
planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of life when everywhere 
else
seems to be lifeless?

If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning to "seed" young star
systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea. The conditions for 
life
may not be that rare after all.

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr  Tue Feb 16 15:58:45 2010
From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:58:45 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
In-Reply-To: <873024.82174.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <873024.82174.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100216215845.anl2an6jvx44wc4s@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>


Darren, list,


The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the research we (a  
group of scientists) are being conducting since several months on  
Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its extraterrestrial  
organic contents.

In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified the list of  
that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and "organic  
contant".

The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time (right in  
time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just anounced  
released out of press a couple of hours ago.

Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).

Abstract can be read here:

http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763


More discussions are available through various media press comments  
(easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe  
Schmitt-Kopplin").

May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules we had found  
originated from the fact that the screening was not targeted.

Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands of  
molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something that seems to  
provoke debate in the media.
Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on meteorites in  
general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in particular, that  
origin-of-life researchers could investigate...

Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that Philippe  
(Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian in 2008.

Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where all the  
measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his discern and  
faith in initiating that challenging research and for his expertise  
that caused its success beyond any of our initial expectations.

So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more" other  
meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming continuously;  
thay will be published in the months to come.

My best wishes,

Zelimir


Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> a ??crit??:

> Darren?and List
> ?
> Thank you for the read?up on Murchison meteorite on how scientist  
> have identified over 14,000 compounds and counting. While we are on  
> the topic of Murchison meteorite, I came?across an article on line  
> that?points out these interesting facts and finds on the Murchison  
> as?quoted from the article as follows....?
> ?
> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar system," says  
> Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are older than  
> the solar system."
> ?But just how old?
> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the Murchison  
> meteorite, which is well-known for the
> organic material it contains, and measured how long the grains spent  
> in interstellar space before winding up
> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages, reported in a  
> recent paper of the Astrophysical Journal,
> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system formed after a  
> smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
> ?
> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate that the  
> majority of grains spent between 3
> and 200 million years in interstellar space before falling into our  
> molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
> years ago."
> ?
> ?
> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
> ?
> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the age of?presolar  
> SiC grains found in Murchison meteorite.
> ?
> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
> ?
> Enjoy
> Shawn Alan
> ?
> ?
> ?
> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren Garrison  
> cynapse at charter.net
> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>
>
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt -  
> February 15, 2009
> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>
> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic Compounds
>
> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>
> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia, hasn't quit  
> giving up its
> secrets.
>
> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied space rocks because many
> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as it fell through the
> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the carbonaceous chondrite was
> recovered.
>
> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to scientists as they were
> formed from material that existed in the solar system's  
> planet-forming disk of
> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules holding onto  
> a 4 billion
> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>
> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us another clue as to the
> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the Earth had formed. In
> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated from material  
> older than our
> sun.
>
> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and saw the  
> complexity I was so
> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the Institute for Ecological
> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>
> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try to understand them you
> are looking back in time."
>
> This new research made use of high resolution spectroscopic tools to identify
> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite has provided scientists
> with vast amounts of information about specific carbon-based organics before,
> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words, the  
> researchers weren't
> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a broad analysis  
> for all the
> chemicals it might contain.
>
> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that the primordial  
> solar system
> probably had a higher chemical diversity than present-day Earth.
>
> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70 amino acids were
> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of the iceberg;  
> the meteorite
> probably contains millions of different organic compounds. More detailed
> analysis will now be carried out.
>
> But why is this important? To understand the diversity of organic  
> chemicals that
> were floating around a primordial solar system will help us  
> understand how life
> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of carbonaceous chondrite
> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar system,  
> collecting all the
> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does that mean diverse organic
> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star systems?
>
> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets, asteroids and other
> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of life when  
> everywhere else
> seems to be lifeless?
>
> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning to "seed" young star
> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea. The conditions for life
> may not be that rare after all.
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at  
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>





From majbaermann at web.de  Tue Feb 16 16:39:11 2010
From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:39:11 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
References: <873024.82174.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<20100216215845.anl2an6jvx44wc4s@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>
Message-ID: <CC71CDC220074F00B2ADA10018B9106B@thinkcentre>

Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,

highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us about your and 
your colleagues scientific work and giving us so the feeling of being 
privileged enough to sit in the very first row.

If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted focus of 
investigation leads directly to a highly diverse pattern.

The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular complexity, which 
provides hints on heteroatoms chronological assembly, suggests that the 
extraterrestrial chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant 
biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The high level of 
extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less diverse terrestrial "chemical 
space" - could that mean that development of life could depend on a kind of 
reduction of diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would be 
essentially linked to a process of picking up elements out of the 
construction kit? But than it begins to play by combining them? Wouldn't 
that point to the necessity to make a strong distinction between diversity 
and complexity? Could that mean that the complexity of terrestrial 
biological and biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial) 
diversity?

Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural scientist ...

Best regards,

Matthias B.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....



Darren, list,


The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the research we (a
group of scientists) are being conducting since several months on
Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its extraterrestrial
organic contents.

In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified the list of
that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and "organic
contant".

The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time (right in
time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just anounced
released out of press a couple of hours ago.

Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).

Abstract can be read here:

http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763


More discussions are available through various media press comments
(easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
Schmitt-Kopplin").

May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules we had found
originated from the fact that the screening was not targeted.

Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands of
molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something that seems to
provoke debate in the media.
Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on meteorites in
general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in particular, that
origin-of-life researchers could investigate...

Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that Philippe
(Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian in 2008.

Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where all the
measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his discern and
faith in initiating that challenging research and for his expertise
that caused its success beyond any of our initial expectations.

So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more" other
meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming continuously;
thay will be published in the months to come.

My best wishes,

Zelimir


Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> a ??crit? :

> Darren and List
>
> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on how scientist  have 
> identified over 14,000 compounds and counting. While we are on  the topic 
> of Murchison meteorite, I came across an article on line  that points out 
> these interesting facts and finds on the Murchison  as quoted from the 
> article as follows....
> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar system," says 
> Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are older than  the 
> solar system."
> But just how old?
> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the Murchison  meteorite, 
> which is well-known for the
> organic material it contains, and measured how long the grains spent  in 
> interstellar space before winding up
> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages, reported in a  recent 
> paper of the Astrophysical Journal,
> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system formed after a 
> smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>
> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate that the  majority 
> of grains spent between 3
> and 200 million years in interstellar space before falling into our 
> molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
> years ago."
>
>
> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>
> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the age of presolar  SiC 
> grains found in Murchison meteorite.
>
> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>
> Enjoy
> Shawn Alan
>
>
>
> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren Garrison  cynapse 
> at charter.net
> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>
>
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt -  February 
> 15, 2009
> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 
> 2009
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>
> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic Compounds
>
> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>
> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia, hasn't quit  giving 
> up its
> secrets.
>
> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied space rocks because 
> many
> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as it fell through the
> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the carbonaceous chondrite was
> recovered.
>
> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to scientists as they were
> formed from material that existed in the solar system's  planet-forming 
> disk of
> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules holding onto  a 4 
> billion
> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>
> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us another clue as to the
> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the Earth had formed. 
> In
> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated from material  older 
> than our
> sun.
>
> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and saw the  complexity I 
> was so
> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the Institute for Ecological
> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>
> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try to understand them 
> you
> are looking back in time."
>
> This new research made use of high resolution spectroscopic tools to 
> identify
> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite has provided 
> scientists
> with vast amounts of information about specific carbon-based organics 
> before,
> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words, the  researchers 
> weren't
> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a broad analysis  for 
> all the
> chemicals it might contain.
>
> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that the primordial  solar 
> system
> probably had a higher chemical diversity than present-day Earth.
>
> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70 amino acids were
> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of the iceberg;  the 
> meteorite
> probably contains millions of different organic compounds. More detailed
> analysis will now be carried out.
>
> But why is this important? To understand the diversity of organic 
> chemicals that
> were floating around a primordial solar system will help us  understand 
> how life
> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of carbonaceous 
> chondrite
> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar system,  collecting 
> all the
> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does that mean diverse 
> organic
> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star systems?
>
> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets, asteroids and other
> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of life when 
> everywhere else
> seems to be lifeless?
>
> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning to "seed" young star
> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea. The conditions for 
> life
> may not be that rare after all.
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net  Tue Feb 16 17:51:15 2010
From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:51:15 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] from Bernd
Message-ID: <1DB4F7936C0A44278CE177E0B404B8A3@DFZN8X81>

>
> Hello Robert and All,
>
> I purchased my smallish 3.9-gram P.V. slice from Cap'n Blood back in 2001 
> and it still looks
> as fresh as it did 9 years ago. No rust but I found a golden-colored, 
> yellowish merrillite or apatite
> (they are both phosphates after all!) crystal at one of these 
> metal-silicate interfaces. Regarding the
> possibility that this might be rust, ...well, one look at such crystals 
> through a microscope (16x will
> be sufficient) should reveal their true nature. This yellow crystal in my 
> slice is a genuine, translucent
> crystal that betrays its nature through its form, its color, its 
> crystallinity (in my slice an elongate
> prismatic crystal) and the fact that it is embedded in the metal silicate 
> interfacial area. Rust would be
> bubbly, blisterous, grainy or powdery - it would not be translucent, it 
> would have the typical color
> of rust (reddish-brown), and, it would protrude from the surface of my 
> slice or if it was really
> incorporated into the matrix/metal interface, if it did not protrude from 
> the cut surface, it would
> still be reddish-brown instead of displaying those typical colors of 
> apatite (green, gray with bluish
> or yellowish tints - at least in hand sample).
>
> Best wishes from
> Germany,
>
> Bernd
> 



From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 16 18:01:49 2010
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:01:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
In-Reply-To: <CC71CDC220074F00B2ADA10018B9106B@thinkcentre>
Message-ID: <476293.75160.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
When information comes out like this, it always adds something even more special to it.

Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good prices on ebay:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1

Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to show that the study of this is ongoing.

Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!

Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites


--- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote:

> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
> 
> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
> first row.
> 
> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
> pattern.
> 
> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
> diversity?
> 
> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
> scientist ...
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Matthias B.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
> 
> 
> 
> Darren, list,
> 
> 
> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
> research we (a
> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
> months on
> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
> extraterrestrial
> organic contents.
> 
> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
> the list of
> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
> "organic
> contant".
> 
> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
> (right in
> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
> anounced
> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
> 
> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
> 
> Abstract can be read here:
> 
> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
> 
> 
> More discussions are available through various media press
> comments
> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
> Schmitt-Kopplin").
> 
> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
> we had found
> originated from the fact that the screening was not
> targeted.
> 
> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
> of
> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
> that seems to
> provoke debate in the media.
> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
> meteorites in
> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
> particular, that
> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
> 
> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
> Philippe
> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
> in 2008.
> 
> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
> all the
> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
> discern and
> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
> expertise
> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
> expectations.
> 
> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
> other
> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
> continuously;
> thay will be published in the months to come.
> 
> My best wishes,
> 
> Zelimir
> 
> 
> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> a ??crit? :
> 
> > Darren and List
> > 
> > Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
> how scientist? have identified over 14,000 compounds
> and counting. While we are on? the topic of Murchison
> meteorite, I came across an article on line? that
> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
> Murchison? as quoted from the article as follows....
> > "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
> > "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
> older than? the solar system."
> > But just how old?
> > Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
> Murchison? meteorite, which is well-known for the
> > organic material it contains, and measured how long
> the grains spent? in interstellar space before winding
> up
> > in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
> reported in a? recent paper of the Astrophysical
> Journal,
> > appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
> > Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
> > 
> > "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
> that the? majority of grains spent between 3
> > and 200 million years in interstellar space before
> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
> > years ago."
> > 
> > 
> > Here is the link to the article I found on line.
> > http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
> > 
> > and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
> age of presolar? SiC grains found in Murchison
> meteorite.
> > 
> > http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
> > 
> > Enjoy
> > Shawn Alan
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
> Garrison? cynapse at charter.net
> > Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
> > 
> > 
> > Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
> Meteorite Hunt -? February 15, 2009
> > Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
> Hunt - February 15, 2009
> > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
> author ]
> > 
> > http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
> > 
> > Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
> Compounds
> > 
> > By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
> > 
> > A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
> hasn't quit? giving up its
> > secrets.
> > 
> > The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
> space rocks because many
> > pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
> it fell through the
> > atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
> carbonaceous chondrite was
> > recovered.
> > 
> > Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
> scientists as they were
> > formed from material that existed in the solar
> system's? planet-forming disk of
> > gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
> holding onto? a 4 billion
> > year old record of the birth of our solar system.
> > 
> > In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
> another clue as to the
> > abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
> Earth had formed. In
> > fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
> from material? older than our
> > sun.
> > 
> > "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
> saw the? complexity I was so
> > amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
> Institute for Ecological
> > Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
> > 
> > "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
> to understand them you
> > are looking back in time."
> > 
> > This new research made use of high resolution
> spectroscopic tools to identify
> > the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
> has provided scientists
> > with vast amounts of information about specific
> carbon-based organics before,
> > this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
> the? researchers weren't
> > tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
> broad analysis? for all the
> > chemicals it might contain.
> > 
> > And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
> the primordial? solar system
> > probably had a higher chemical diversity than
> present-day Earth.
> > 
> > In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
> amino acids were
> > identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
> the iceberg;? the meteorite
> > probably contains millions of different organic
> compounds. More detailed
> > analysis will now be carried out.
> > 
> > But why is this important? To understand the diversity
> of organic chemicals that
> > were floating around a primordial solar system will
> help us? understand how life
> > may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
> carbonaceous chondrite
> > drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
> system,? collecting all the
> > basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
> that mean diverse organic
> > chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
> systems?
> > 
> > These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
> asteroids and other
> > planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
> life when everywhere else
> > seems to be lifeless?
> > 
> > If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
> to "seed" young star
> > systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
> The conditions for life
> > may not be that rare after all.
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 16 20:20:49 2010
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:20:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite books on internet
Message-ID: <309412.76837.qm@web53107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear List,
  I found this while doing a google search for meteorite books:

meteorite books (download torrent) - TPB
 
16 Feb 2010 ... Asteroids, Comets and Meteorites Chesapeake Invader-- Discovering America's Giant Meteorite Crater Falling Stars-- A Guide to Meteors ...
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5368324/meteorite_books

Best Regards, Dirk Ross


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Feb 16 20:23:22 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:23:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Get Set for a Possible Glimpse of an Asteroid
	(Vesta)
Message-ID: <201002170123.o1H1NMIJ012297@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-051  

Get Set for a Possible Glimpse of an Asteroid
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
February 16, 2010

The most prominent asteroid in the sky is currently yours for the
perusing with binoculars -- and perhaps even the naked eye.

Tomorrow night, Wednesday, Feb. 17, Vesta, the second most massive
object in the asteroid belt, reaches what astronomers like to call
"opposition." An asteroid (or planet or comet) is said to be "in
opposition" when it is opposite to the sun as seen from Earth. In other
words, if you were to stand outside with the sun directly above you at
high noon, Vesta would be directly below your feet some 211,980,000
kilometers (131,700,000 miles) away. With Vesta at opposition, the
asteroid is at its closest point to Earth in its orbit.

Wednesday night, the asteroid is expected to shine at magnitude 6.1.
That brightness should make it visible to interested parties brandishing
telescopes or binoculars, and even those blessed with excellent vision
and little or no light pollution or clouds in their vicinity. Vesta will
be visible in the eastern sky in the constellation Leo.

What makes this space rock so prominent these days? Along with its
relative proximity at this point, a full half of the asteroid is being
bathed by sunlight when seen from Earth, making it appear brighter.
Another attribute working in the observer's favor is that Vesta has a
unique surface material that is not as dark as most main belt asteroids
- allowing more of the sun's rays to reflect off its surface.

If spotting Vesta in the night sky has whetted your appetite for
mega-rocks, all we can say is, stay tuned. NASA's Dawn spacecraft,
currently motoring its way through the asteroid belt, will begin its
exploration of Vesta in the summer of 2011.

For more information about Dawn, visit: http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/ .

DC Agle 818-393-9011
agle at jpl.nasa.gov

2010-051



From gredfern at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 16 21:31:25 2010
From: gredfern at earthlink.net (Greg Redfern)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:31:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
Message-ID: <31964642.1266373885775.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine cognac.

This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)

Greg


-----Original Message-----
>From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>
>I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
>Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
>When information comes out like this, it always adds something even more special to it.
>
>Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good prices on ebay:
>http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
>
>Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to show that the study of this is ongoing.
>
>Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
>
>Greg Catterton
>www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>IMCA member 4682
>On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>
>
>--- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote:
>
>> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
>> 
>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
>> first row.
>> 
>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
>> pattern.
>> 
>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
>> diversity?
>> 
>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
>> scientist ...
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Matthias B.
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Darren, list,
>> 
>> 
>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
>> research we (a
>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
>> months on
>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
>> extraterrestrial
>> organic contents.
>> 
>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
>> the list of
>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
>> "organic
>> contant".
>> 
>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
>> (right in
>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
>> anounced
>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>> 
>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>> 
>> Abstract can be read here:
>> 
>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>> 
>> 
>> More discussions are available through various media press
>> comments
>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>> 
>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
>> we had found
>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
>> targeted.
>> 
>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
>> of
>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
>> that seems to
>> provoke debate in the media.
>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
>> meteorites in
>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
>> particular, that
>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>> 
>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
>> Philippe
>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
>> in 2008.
>> 
>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
>> all the
>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
>> discern and
>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
>> expertise
>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
>> expectations.
>> 
>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
>> other
>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
>> continuously;
>> thay will be published in the months to come.
>> 
>> My best wishes,
>> 
>> Zelimir
>> 
>> 
>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
>> a ??crit? :
>> 
>> > Darren and List
>> > 
>> > Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
>> how scientist? have identified over 14,000 compounds
>> and counting. While we are on? the topic of Murchison
>> meteorite, I came across an article on line? that
>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
>> Murchison? as quoted from the article as follows....
>> > "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>> > "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
>> older than? the solar system."
>> > But just how old?
>> > Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
>> Murchison? meteorite, which is well-known for the
>> > organic material it contains, and measured how long
>> the grains spent? in interstellar space before winding
>> up
>> > in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
>> reported in a? recent paper of the Astrophysical
>> Journal,
>> > appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>> > Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>> > 
>> > "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
>> that the? majority of grains spent between 3
>> > and 200 million years in interstellar space before
>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>> > years ago."
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>> > http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>> > 
>> > and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
>> age of presolar? SiC grains found in Murchison
>> meteorite.
>> > 
>> > http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>> > 
>> > Enjoy
>> > Shawn Alan
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
>> Garrison? cynapse at charter.net
>> > Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
>> Meteorite Hunt -? February 15, 2009
>> > Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
>> > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
>> author ]
>> > 
>> > http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>> > 
>> > Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
>> Compounds
>> > 
>> > By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>> > 
>> > A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
>> hasn't quit? giving up its
>> > secrets.
>> > 
>> > The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
>> space rocks because many
>> > pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
>> it fell through the
>> > atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
>> carbonaceous chondrite was
>> > recovered.
>> > 
>> > Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
>> scientists as they were
>> > formed from material that existed in the solar
>> system's? planet-forming disk of
>> > gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
>> holding onto? a 4 billion
>> > year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>> > 
>> > In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
>> another clue as to the
>> > abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
>> Earth had formed. In
>> > fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
>> from material? older than our
>> > sun.
>> > 
>> > "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
>> saw the? complexity I was so
>> > amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
>> Institute for Ecological
>> > Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>> > 
>> > "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
>> to understand them you
>> > are looking back in time."
>> > 
>> > This new research made use of high resolution
>> spectroscopic tools to identify
>> > the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
>> has provided scientists
>> > with vast amounts of information about specific
>> carbon-based organics before,
>> > this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
>> the? researchers weren't
>> > tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
>> broad analysis? for all the
>> > chemicals it might contain.
>> > 
>> > And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
>> the primordial? solar system
>> > probably had a higher chemical diversity than
>> present-day Earth.
>> > 
>> > In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
>> amino acids were
>> > identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
>> the iceberg;? the meteorite
>> > probably contains millions of different organic
>> compounds. More detailed
>> > analysis will now be carried out.
>> > 
>> > But why is this important? To understand the diversity
>> of organic chemicals that
>> > were floating around a primordial solar system will
>> help us? understand how life
>> > may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
>> carbonaceous chondrite
>> > drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
>> system,? collecting all the
>> > basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
>> that mean diverse organic
>> > chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
>> systems?
>> > 
>> > These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
>> asteroids and other
>> > planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
>> life when everywhere else
>> > seems to be lifeless?
>> > 
>> > If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
>> to "seed" young star
>> > systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
>> The conditions for life
>> > may not be that rare after all.
>> > 
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> > 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
>
>
>      
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list





From gmhupe at htn.net  Tue Feb 16 21:58:38 2010
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:58:38 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball over Tucson 2-16-2010 7:28pm
Message-ID: <FB2117BE90A44EDA946ECCE179675749@Gregor>

Dear Fireball Chasers:

Mike Farmer wanted to let you know about a large green fireball he witnessed 
tonight over/near Tucson at about 7:28pm local time. He watched the fireball 
last for 3-4 seconds heading straight down and due east as he was driving 
east on Speedway. He suggests it could have fallen in SE Arizona or even New 
Mexico.

Any radar images, Rob, Marc??

Good luck!!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




From gredfern at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 16 21:59:27 2010
From: gredfern at earthlink.net (Greg Redfern)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:59:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
Message-ID: <12282072.1266375568033.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Ahhhh.....another Murchison connoisseur!

Thanks Gary!

Greg

-----Original Message-----
>From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com>
>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 9:38 PM
>To: Greg Redfern <gredfern at earthlink.net>
>Cc: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>, "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>
>Ha ha!  I concur, and must confess that I too love the smell of  
>Murchison in the morning.
>
>Sent from Gary's iPhone
>
>On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Greg Redfern <gredfern at earthlink.net>  
>wrote:
>
>> My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I  
>> LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine  
>> cognac.
>>
>> This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
>>> Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>
>>> I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
>>> Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
>>> When information comes out like this, it always adds something even  
>>> more special to it.
>>>
>>> Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently  
>>> have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good  
>>> prices on ebay:
>>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
>>>
>>> Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to  
>>> show that the study of this is ongoing.
>>>
>>> Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
>>>
>>> Greg Catterton
>>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>>> IMCA member 4682
>>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
>>>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
>>>>
>>>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
>>>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
>>>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
>>>> first row.
>>>>
>>>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
>>>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
>>>> pattern.
>>>>
>>>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
>>>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
>>>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
>>>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
>>>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
>>>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
>>>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
>>>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
>>>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
>>>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
>>>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
>>>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
>>>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
>>>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
>>>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
>>>> diversity?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
>>>> scientist ...
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Matthias B.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Darren, list,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
>>>> research we (a
>>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
>>>> months on
>>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
>>>> extraterrestrial
>>>> organic contents.
>>>>
>>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
>>>> the list of
>>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
>>>> "organic
>>>> contant".
>>>>
>>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
>>>> (right in
>>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
>>>> anounced
>>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>>>>
>>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>>>>
>>>> Abstract can be read here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> More discussions are available through various media press
>>>> comments
>>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
>>>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>>>>
>>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
>>>> we had found
>>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
>>>> targeted.
>>>>
>>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
>>>> of
>>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
>>>> that seems to
>>>> provoke debate in the media.
>>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
>>>> meteorites in
>>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
>>>> particular, that
>>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>>>>
>>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
>>>> Philippe
>>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
>>>> in 2008.
>>>>
>>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
>>>> all the
>>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
>>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
>>>> discern and
>>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
>>>> expertise
>>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
>>>> expectations.
>>>>
>>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
>>>> other
>>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
>>>> continuously;
>>>> thay will be published in the months to come.
>>>>
>>>> My best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Zelimir
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
>>>> a ??crit? :
>>>>
>>>>> Darren and List
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
>>>> how scientist  have identified over 14,000 compounds
>>>> and counting. While we are on  the topic of Murchison
>>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line  that
>>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
>>>> Murchison  as quoted from the article as follows....
>>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
>>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
>>>> older than  the solar system."
>>>>> But just how old?
>>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
>>>> Murchison  meteorite, which is well-known for the
>>>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long
>>>> the grains spent  in interstellar space before winding
>>>> up
>>>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
>>>> reported in a  recent paper of the Astrophysical
>>>> Journal,
>>>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
>>>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>>>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>>>>>
>>>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
>>>> that the  majority of grains spent between 3
>>>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before
>>>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>>>>> years ago."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>>>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
>>>> age of presolar  SiC grains found in Murchison
>>>> meteorite.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Enjoy
>>>>> Shawn Alan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
>>>> Garrison  cynapse at charter.net
>>>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
>>>> Meteorite Hunt -  February 15, 2009
>>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
>>>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
>>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
>>>> author ]
>>>>>
>>>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
>>>> Compounds
>>>>>
>>>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>>>>>
>>>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
>>>> hasn't quit  giving up its
>>>>> secrets.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
>>>> space rocks because many
>>>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
>>>> it fell through the
>>>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
>>>> carbonaceous chondrite was
>>>>> recovered.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
>>>> scientists as they were
>>>>> formed from material that existed in the solar
>>>> system's  planet-forming disk of
>>>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
>>>> holding onto  a 4 billion
>>>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
>>>> another clue as to the
>>>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
>>>> Earth had formed. In
>>>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
>>>> from material  older than our
>>>>> sun.
>>>>>
>>>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
>>>> saw the  complexity I was so
>>>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
>>>> Institute for Ecological
>>>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
>>>> to understand them you
>>>>> are looking back in time."
>>>>>
>>>>> This new research made use of high resolution
>>>> spectroscopic tools to identify
>>>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
>>>> has provided scientists
>>>>> with vast amounts of information about specific
>>>> carbon-based organics before,
>>>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
>>>> the  researchers weren't
>>>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
>>>> broad analysis  for all the
>>>>> chemicals it might contain.
>>>>>
>>>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
>>>> the primordial  solar system
>>>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than
>>>> present-day Earth.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
>>>> amino acids were
>>>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
>>>> the iceberg;  the meteorite
>>>>> probably contains millions of different organic
>>>> compounds. More detailed
>>>>> analysis will now be carried out.
>>>>>
>>>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity
>>>> of organic chemicals that
>>>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will
>>>> help us  understand how life
>>>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
>>>> carbonaceous chondrite
>>>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
>>>> system,  collecting all the
>>>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
>>>> that mean diverse organic
>>>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
>>>> systems?
>>>>>
>>>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
>>>> asteroids and other
>>>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
>>>> life when everywhere else
>>>>> seems to be lifeless?
>>>>>
>>>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
>>>> to "seed" young star
>>>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
>>>> The conditions for life
>>>>> may not be that rare after all.
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list





From ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com  Tue Feb 16 22:07:26 2010
From: ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com (Matson, Robert D.)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:07:26 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball over Tucson 2-16-2010 7:28pm
In-Reply-To: <FB2117BE90A44EDA946ECCE179675749@Gregor>
References: <FB2117BE90A44EDA946ECCE179675749@Gregor>
Message-ID: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702C5CE0A@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Hi Greg,

Boy, the meteors have been busy in Arizona this month!  I'll check
the radar later tonight from home.  Usually nothing shows up on the
low resolution (live) data and you have to wait for the higher
quality NCDC data to get posted -- probably on Thursday morning.

--Rob 

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Hupe
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:59 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball over Tucson 2-16-2010 7:28pm

Dear Fireball Chasers:

Mike Farmer wanted to let you know about a large green fireball he
witnessed tonight over/near Tucson at about 7:28pm local time. He
watched the fireball last for 3-4 seconds heading straight down and due
east as he was driving east on Speedway. He suggests it could have
fallen in SE Arizona or even New Mexico.

Any radar images, Rob, Marc??

Good luck!!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 16 22:28:28 2010
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:28:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball over Tucson 2-16-2010 7:28pm
Message-ID: <17550082.1266377308506.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

The dogs outside are barking and howling, the horses are neighing and rearing in the corral, I hear the shouts of men... The posse assembles!

Count Deiro 

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Matson, Robert D." <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 10:07 PM
>To: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
>Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fireball over Tucson 2-16-2010 7:28pm
>
>Hi Greg,
>
>Boy, the meteors have been busy in Arizona this month!  I'll check
>the radar later tonight from home.  Usually nothing shows up on the
>low resolution (live) data and you have to wait for the higher
>quality NCDC data to get posted -- probably on Thursday morning.
>
>--Rob 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg
>Hupe
>Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:59 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball over Tucson 2-16-2010 7:28pm
>
>Dear Fireball Chasers:
>
>Mike Farmer wanted to let you know about a large green fireball he
>witnessed tonight over/near Tucson at about 7:28pm local time. He
>watched the fireball last for 3-4 seconds heading straight down and due
>east as he was driving east on Speedway. He suggests it could have
>fallen in SE Arizona or even New Mexico.
>
>Any radar images, Rob, Marc??
>
>Good luck!!
>
>Best regards,
>Greg
>
>====================
>Greg Hupe
>The Hupe Collection
>NaturesVault (eBay)
>gmhupe at htn.net
>www.LunarRock.com
>IMCA 3163
>====================
>Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
>http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 16 22:38:44 2010
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:38:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball over Tucson 2-16-2010 7:28pm
Message-ID: <32475093.1266377924650.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Ah...better make that "the shouts of men and WOMEN." I met some damn fine lady meteorite hunters in Tucson...cute too.

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536

-----Original Message-----
>From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 10:28 PM
>To: "Matson,Robert D." <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
>Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fireball over Tucson 2-16-2010 7:28pm
>
>The dogs outside are barking and howling, the horses are neighing and rearing in the corral, I hear the shouts of men... The posse assembles!
>
>Count Deiro 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: "Matson, Robert D." <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
>>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 10:07 PM
>>To: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
>>Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fireball over Tucson 2-16-2010 7:28pm
>>
>>Hi Greg,
>>
>>Boy, the meteors have been busy in Arizona this month!  I'll check
>>the radar later tonight from home.  Usually nothing shows up on the
>>low resolution (live) data and you have to wait for the higher
>>quality NCDC data to get posted -- probably on Thursday morning.
>>
>>--Rob 
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg
>>Hupe
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:59 PM
>>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball over Tucson 2-16-2010 7:28pm
>>
>>Dear Fireball Chasers:
>>
>>Mike Farmer wanted to let you know about a large green fireball he
>>witnessed tonight over/near Tucson at about 7:28pm local time. He
>>watched the fireball last for 3-4 seconds heading straight down and due
>>east as he was driving east on Speedway. He suggests it could have
>>fallen in SE Arizona or even New Mexico.
>>
>>Any radar images, Rob, Marc??
>>
>>Good luck!!
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Greg
>>
>>====================
>>Greg Hupe
>>The Hupe Collection
>>NaturesVault (eBay)
>>gmhupe at htn.net
>>www.LunarRock.com
>>IMCA 3163
>>====================
>>Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
>>http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>>______________________________________________
>>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From fujmon at mac.com  Tue Feb 16 21:38:03 2010
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:38:03 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
In-Reply-To: <31964642.1266373885775.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <31964642.1266373885775.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C0AA9722-2C2D-42E5-A789-43B2F5B2DC18@mac.com>

Ha ha!  I concur, and must confess that I too love the smell of  
Murchison in the morning.

Sent from Gary's iPhone

On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Greg Redfern <gredfern at earthlink.net>  
wrote:

> My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I  
> LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine  
> cognac.
>
> This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)
>
> Greg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>
>> I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
>> Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
>> When information comes out like this, it always adds something even  
>> more special to it.
>>
>> Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently  
>> have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good  
>> prices on ebay:
>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
>>
>> Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to  
>> show that the study of this is ongoing.
>>
>> Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
>>
>> Greg Catterton
>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>> IMCA member 4682
>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>>
>>
>> --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
>>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
>>>
>>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
>>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
>>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
>>> first row.
>>>
>>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
>>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
>>> pattern.
>>>
>>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
>>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
>>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
>>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
>>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
>>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
>>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
>>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
>>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
>>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
>>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
>>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
>>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
>>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
>>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
>>> diversity?
>>>
>>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
>>> scientist ...
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Matthias B.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Darren, list,
>>>
>>>
>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
>>> research we (a
>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
>>> months on
>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
>>> extraterrestrial
>>> organic contents.
>>>
>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
>>> the list of
>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
>>> "organic
>>> contant".
>>>
>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
>>> (right in
>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
>>> anounced
>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>>>
>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>>>
>>> Abstract can be read here:
>>>
>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>>>
>>>
>>> More discussions are available through various media press
>>> comments
>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
>>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>>>
>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
>>> we had found
>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
>>> targeted.
>>>
>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
>>> of
>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
>>> that seems to
>>> provoke debate in the media.
>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
>>> meteorites in
>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
>>> particular, that
>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>>>
>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
>>> Philippe
>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
>>> in 2008.
>>>
>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
>>> all the
>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
>>> discern and
>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
>>> expertise
>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
>>> expectations.
>>>
>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
>>> other
>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
>>> continuously;
>>> thay will be published in the months to come.
>>>
>>> My best wishes,
>>>
>>> Zelimir
>>>
>>>
>>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
>>> a ??crit? :
>>>
>>>> Darren and List
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
>>> how scientist  have identified over 14,000 compounds
>>> and counting. While we are on  the topic of Murchison
>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line  that
>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
>>> Murchison  as quoted from the article as follows....
>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
>>> older than  the solar system."
>>>> But just how old?
>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
>>> Murchison  meteorite, which is well-known for the
>>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long
>>> the grains spent  in interstellar space before winding
>>> up
>>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
>>> reported in a  recent paper of the Astrophysical
>>> Journal,
>>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
>>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>>>>
>>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
>>> that the  majority of grains spent between 3
>>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before
>>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>>>> years ago."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>>>>
>>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
>>> age of presolar  SiC grains found in Murchison
>>> meteorite.
>>>>
>>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Enjoy
>>>> Shawn Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
>>> Garrison  cynapse at charter.net
>>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
>>> Meteorite Hunt -  February 15, 2009
>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
>>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
>>> author ]
>>>>
>>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>>>>
>>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
>>> Compounds
>>>>
>>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>>>>
>>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
>>> hasn't quit  giving up its
>>>> secrets.
>>>>
>>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
>>> space rocks because many
>>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
>>> it fell through the
>>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
>>> carbonaceous chondrite was
>>>> recovered.
>>>>
>>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
>>> scientists as they were
>>>> formed from material that existed in the solar
>>> system's  planet-forming disk of
>>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
>>> holding onto  a 4 billion
>>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>>>>
>>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
>>> another clue as to the
>>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
>>> Earth had formed. In
>>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
>>> from material  older than our
>>>> sun.
>>>>
>>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
>>> saw the  complexity I was so
>>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
>>> Institute for Ecological
>>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>>>>
>>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
>>> to understand them you
>>>> are looking back in time."
>>>>
>>>> This new research made use of high resolution
>>> spectroscopic tools to identify
>>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
>>> has provided scientists
>>>> with vast amounts of information about specific
>>> carbon-based organics before,
>>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
>>> the  researchers weren't
>>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
>>> broad analysis  for all the
>>>> chemicals it might contain.
>>>>
>>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
>>> the primordial  solar system
>>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than
>>> present-day Earth.
>>>>
>>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
>>> amino acids were
>>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
>>> the iceberg;  the meteorite
>>>> probably contains millions of different organic
>>> compounds. More detailed
>>>> analysis will now be carried out.
>>>>
>>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity
>>> of organic chemicals that
>>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will
>>> help us  understand how life
>>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
>>> carbonaceous chondrite
>>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
>>> system,  collecting all the
>>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
>>> that mean diverse organic
>>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
>>> systems?
>>>>
>>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
>>> asteroids and other
>>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
>>> life when everywhere else
>>>> seems to be lifeless?
>>>>
>>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
>>> to "seed" young star
>>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
>>> The conditions for life
>>>> may not be that rare after all.
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 22:48:55 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:48:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
In-Reply-To: <C0AA9722-2C2D-42E5-A789-43B2F5B2DC18@mac.com>
References: <31964642.1266373885775.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<C0AA9722-2C2D-42E5-A789-43B2F5B2DC18@mac.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002161948i255cdb00hd065d24d66ce8c19@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks!

So it's true about the aroma of Murchison?  I wish I had a piece big
enough to smell without actually inhaling it.

If I try to sniff my current Murchison, it will fly up my nose. LOL

Best regards,

MikeG



On 2/16/10, Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com> wrote:
> Ha ha!  I concur, and must confess that I too love the smell of
> Murchison in the morning.
>
> Sent from Gary's iPhone
>
> On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Greg Redfern <gredfern at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I
>> LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine
>> cognac.
>>
>> This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
>>> Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>
>>> I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
>>> Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
>>> When information comes out like this, it always adds something even
>>> more special to it.
>>>
>>> Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently
>>> have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good
>>> prices on ebay:
>>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
>>>
>>> Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to
>>> show that the study of this is ongoing.
>>>
>>> Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
>>>
>>> Greg Catterton
>>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>>> IMCA member 4682
>>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
>>>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
>>>>
>>>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
>>>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
>>>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
>>>> first row.
>>>>
>>>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
>>>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
>>>> pattern.
>>>>
>>>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
>>>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
>>>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
>>>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
>>>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
>>>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
>>>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
>>>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
>>>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
>>>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
>>>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
>>>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
>>>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
>>>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
>>>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
>>>> diversity?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
>>>> scientist ...
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Matthias B.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Darren, list,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
>>>> research we (a
>>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
>>>> months on
>>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
>>>> extraterrestrial
>>>> organic contents.
>>>>
>>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
>>>> the list of
>>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
>>>> "organic
>>>> contant".
>>>>
>>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
>>>> (right in
>>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
>>>> anounced
>>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>>>>
>>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>>>>
>>>> Abstract can be read here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> More discussions are available through various media press
>>>> comments
>>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
>>>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>>>>
>>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
>>>> we had found
>>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
>>>> targeted.
>>>>
>>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
>>>> of
>>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
>>>> that seems to
>>>> provoke debate in the media.
>>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
>>>> meteorites in
>>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
>>>> particular, that
>>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>>>>
>>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
>>>> Philippe
>>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
>>>> in 2008.
>>>>
>>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
>>>> all the
>>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
>>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
>>>> discern and
>>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
>>>> expertise
>>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
>>>> expectations.
>>>>
>>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
>>>> other
>>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
>>>> continuously;
>>>> thay will be published in the months to come.
>>>>
>>>> My best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Zelimir
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
>>>> a ??crit? :
>>>>
>>>>> Darren and List
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
>>>> how scientist  have identified over 14,000 compounds
>>>> and counting. While we are on  the topic of Murchison
>>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line  that
>>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
>>>> Murchison  as quoted from the article as follows....
>>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
>>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
>>>> older than  the solar system."
>>>>> But just how old?
>>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
>>>> Murchison  meteorite, which is well-known for the
>>>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long
>>>> the grains spent  in interstellar space before winding
>>>> up
>>>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
>>>> reported in a  recent paper of the Astrophysical
>>>> Journal,
>>>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
>>>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>>>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>>>>>
>>>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
>>>> that the  majority of grains spent between 3
>>>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before
>>>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>>>>> years ago."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>>>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
>>>> age of presolar  SiC grains found in Murchison
>>>> meteorite.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Enjoy
>>>>> Shawn Alan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
>>>> Garrison  cynapse at charter.net
>>>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
>>>> Meteorite Hunt -  February 15, 2009
>>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
>>>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
>>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
>>>> author ]
>>>>>
>>>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
>>>> Compounds
>>>>>
>>>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>>>>>
>>>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
>>>> hasn't quit  giving up its
>>>>> secrets.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
>>>> space rocks because many
>>>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
>>>> it fell through the
>>>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
>>>> carbonaceous chondrite was
>>>>> recovered.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
>>>> scientists as they were
>>>>> formed from material that existed in the solar
>>>> system's  planet-forming disk of
>>>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
>>>> holding onto  a 4 billion
>>>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
>>>> another clue as to the
>>>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
>>>> Earth had formed. In
>>>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
>>>> from material  older than our
>>>>> sun.
>>>>>
>>>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
>>>> saw the  complexity I was so
>>>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
>>>> Institute for Ecological
>>>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
>>>> to understand them you
>>>>> are looking back in time."
>>>>>
>>>>> This new research made use of high resolution
>>>> spectroscopic tools to identify
>>>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
>>>> has provided scientists
>>>>> with vast amounts of information about specific
>>>> carbon-based organics before,
>>>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
>>>> the  researchers weren't
>>>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
>>>> broad analysis  for all the
>>>>> chemicals it might contain.
>>>>>
>>>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
>>>> the primordial  solar system
>>>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than
>>>> present-day Earth.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
>>>> amino acids were
>>>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
>>>> the iceberg;  the meteorite
>>>>> probably contains millions of different organic
>>>> compounds. More detailed
>>>>> analysis will now be carried out.
>>>>>
>>>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity
>>>> of organic chemicals that
>>>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will
>>>> help us  understand how life
>>>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
>>>> carbonaceous chondrite
>>>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
>>>> system,  collecting all the
>>>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
>>>> that mean diverse organic
>>>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
>>>> systems?
>>>>>
>>>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
>>>> asteroids and other
>>>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
>>>> life when everywhere else
>>>>> seems to be lifeless?
>>>>>
>>>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
>>>> to "seed" young star
>>>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
>>>> The conditions for life
>>>>> may not be that rare after all.
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From felipeg36 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 22:50:37 2010
From: felipeg36 at gmail.com (Felipe Guajardo)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:50:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002161948i255cdb00hd065d24d66ce8c19@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31964642.1266373885775.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<C0AA9722-2C2D-42E5-A789-43B2F5B2DC18@mac.com>
	<e51421551002161948i255cdb00hd065d24d66ce8c19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18fdccaa1002161950s62a29b3ap42833d89473a5601@mail.gmail.com>

LOL... that has to be the funniest thing I've heard today!



On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
<meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Folks!
>
> So it's true about the aroma of Murchison? ?I wish I had a piece big
> enough to smell without actually inhaling it.
>
> If I try to sniff my current Murchison, it will fly up my nose. LOL
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
> On 2/16/10, Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com> wrote:
>> Ha ha! ?I concur, and must confess that I too love the smell of
>> Murchison in the morning.
>>
>> Sent from Gary's iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Greg Redfern <gredfern at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I
>>> LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine
>>> cognac.
>>>
>>> This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
>>>> Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>>
>>>> I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
>>>> Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
>>>> When information comes out like this, it always adds something even
>>>> more special to it.
>>>>
>>>> Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently
>>>> have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good
>>>> prices on ebay:
>>>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
>>>>
>>>> Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to
>>>> show that the study of this is ongoing.
>>>>
>>>> Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
>>>>
>>>> Greg Catterton
>>>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>>>> IMCA member 4682
>>>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
>>>>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
>>>>>
>>>>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
>>>>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
>>>>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
>>>>> first row.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
>>>>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
>>>>> pattern.
>>>>>
>>>>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
>>>>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
>>>>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
>>>>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
>>>>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
>>>>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
>>>>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
>>>>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
>>>>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
>>>>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
>>>>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
>>>>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
>>>>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
>>>>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
>>>>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
>>>>> diversity?
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
>>>>> scientist ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Matthias B.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>>>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Darren, list,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
>>>>> research we (a
>>>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
>>>>> months on
>>>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
>>>>> extraterrestrial
>>>>> organic contents.
>>>>>
>>>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
>>>>> the list of
>>>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
>>>>> "organic
>>>>> contant".
>>>>>
>>>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
>>>>> (right in
>>>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
>>>>> anounced
>>>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>>>>>
>>>>> Abstract can be read here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> More discussions are available through various media press
>>>>> comments
>>>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
>>>>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>>>>>
>>>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
>>>>> we had found
>>>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
>>>>> targeted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
>>>>> of
>>>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
>>>>> that seems to
>>>>> provoke debate in the media.
>>>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
>>>>> meteorites in
>>>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
>>>>> particular, that
>>>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>>>>>
>>>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
>>>>> Philippe
>>>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
>>>>> in 2008.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
>>>>> all the
>>>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
>>>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
>>>>> discern and
>>>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
>>>>> expertise
>>>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
>>>>> expectations.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
>>>>> other
>>>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
>>>>> continuously;
>>>>> thay will be published in the months to come.
>>>>>
>>>>> My best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Zelimir
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
>>>>> a ??crit? :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Darren and List
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
>>>>> how scientist ?have identified over 14,000 compounds
>>>>> and counting. While we are on ?the topic of Murchison
>>>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line ?that
>>>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
>>>>> Murchison ?as quoted from the article as follows....
>>>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
>>>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>>>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
>>>>> older than ?the solar system."
>>>>>> But just how old?
>>>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
>>>>> Murchison ?meteorite, which is well-known for the
>>>>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long
>>>>> the grains spent ?in interstellar space before winding
>>>>> up
>>>>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
>>>>> reported in a ?recent paper of the Astrophysical
>>>>> Journal,
>>>>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
>>>>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>>>>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
>>>>> that the ?majority of grains spent between 3
>>>>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before
>>>>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>>>>>> years ago."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>>>>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
>>>>> age of presolar ?SiC grains found in Murchison
>>>>> meteorite.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Enjoy
>>>>>> Shawn Alan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
>>>>> Garrison ?cynapse at charter.net
>>>>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
>>>>> Meteorite Hunt - ?February 15, 2009
>>>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
>>>>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
>>>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
>>>>> author ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
>>>>> Compounds
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
>>>>> hasn't quit ?giving up its
>>>>>> secrets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
>>>>> space rocks because many
>>>>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
>>>>> it fell through the
>>>>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
>>>>> carbonaceous chondrite was
>>>>>> recovered.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
>>>>> scientists as they were
>>>>>> formed from material that existed in the solar
>>>>> system's ?planet-forming disk of
>>>>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
>>>>> holding onto ?a 4 billion
>>>>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
>>>>> another clue as to the
>>>>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
>>>>> Earth had formed. In
>>>>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
>>>>> from material ?older than our
>>>>>> sun.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
>>>>> saw the ?complexity I was so
>>>>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
>>>>> Institute for Ecological
>>>>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
>>>>> to understand them you
>>>>>> are looking back in time."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This new research made use of high resolution
>>>>> spectroscopic tools to identify
>>>>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
>>>>> has provided scientists
>>>>>> with vast amounts of information about specific
>>>>> carbon-based organics before,
>>>>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
>>>>> the ?researchers weren't
>>>>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
>>>>> broad analysis ?for all the
>>>>>> chemicals it might contain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
>>>>> the primordial ?solar system
>>>>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than
>>>>> present-day Earth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
>>>>> amino acids were
>>>>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
>>>>> the iceberg; ?the meteorite
>>>>>> probably contains millions of different organic
>>>>> compounds. More detailed
>>>>>> analysis will now be carried out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity
>>>>> of organic chemicals that
>>>>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will
>>>>> help us ?understand how life
>>>>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
>>>>> carbonaceous chondrite
>>>>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
>>>>> system, ?collecting all the
>>>>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
>>>>> that mean diverse organic
>>>>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
>>>>> systems?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
>>>>> asteroids and other
>>>>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
>>>>> life when everywhere else
>>>>>> seems to be lifeless?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
>>>>> to "seed" young star
>>>>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
>>>>> The conditions for life
>>>>>> may not be that rare after all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Tue Feb 16 22:55:48 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:55:48 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002161948i255cdb00hd065d24d66ce8c19@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31964642.1266373885775.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	<C0AA9722-2C2D-42E5-A789-43B2F5B2DC18@mac.com>
	<e51421551002161948i255cdb00hd065d24d66ce8c19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7B68C4.7060306@meteoritesusa.com>

LOL LMAO!!! Now that was funny! Nice Mike...



On 2/16/2010 7:48 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
> Hi Folks!
>
> So it's true about the aroma of Murchison?  I wish I had a piece big
> enough to smell without actually inhaling it.
>
> If I try to sniff my current Murchison, it will fly up my nose. LOL
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
> On 2/16/10, Gary Fujihara<fujmon at mac.com>  wrote:
>    
>> Ha ha!  I concur, and must confess that I too love the smell of
>> Murchison in the morning.
>>
>> Sent from Gary's iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Greg Redfern<gredfern at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I
>>> LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine
>>> cognac.
>>>
>>> This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>        
>>>> From: Greg Catterton<star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
>>>> Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>>
>>>> I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
>>>> Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
>>>> When information comes out like this, it always adds something even
>>>> more special to it.
>>>>
>>>> Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently
>>>> have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good
>>>> prices on ebay:
>>>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
>>>>
>>>> Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to
>>>> show that the study of this is ongoing.
>>>>
>>>> Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
>>>>
>>>> Greg Catterton
>>>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>>>> IMCA member 4682
>>>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann<majbaermann at web.de>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>> From: Matthias B?rmann<majbaermann at web.de>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
>>>>> Hello Zelimir&  Murchisionados,
>>>>>
>>>>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
>>>>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
>>>>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
>>>>> first row.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
>>>>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
>>>>> pattern.
>>>>>
>>>>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
>>>>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
>>>>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
>>>>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
>>>>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
>>>>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
>>>>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
>>>>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
>>>>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
>>>>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
>>>>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
>>>>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
>>>>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
>>>>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
>>>>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
>>>>> diversity?
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
>>>>> scientist ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Matthias B.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From:<Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>>>>> To:<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Darren, list,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
>>>>> research we (a
>>>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
>>>>> months on
>>>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
>>>>> extraterrestrial
>>>>> organic contents.
>>>>>
>>>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
>>>>> the list of
>>>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
>>>>> "organic
>>>>> contant".
>>>>>
>>>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
>>>>> (right in
>>>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
>>>>> anounced
>>>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>>>>>
>>>>> Abstract can be read here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> More discussions are available through various media press
>>>>> comments
>>>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
>>>>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>>>>>
>>>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
>>>>> we had found
>>>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
>>>>> targeted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
>>>>> of
>>>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
>>>>> that seems to
>>>>> provoke debate in the media.
>>>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
>>>>> meteorites in
>>>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
>>>>> particular, that
>>>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>>>>>
>>>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
>>>>> Philippe
>>>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
>>>>> in 2008.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
>>>>> all the
>>>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR&  GC) were run.
>>>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
>>>>> discern and
>>>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
>>>>> expertise
>>>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
>>>>> expectations.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
>>>>> other
>>>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
>>>>> continuously;
>>>>> thay will be published in the months to come.
>>>>>
>>>>> My best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Zelimir
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Shawn Alan<photophlow at yahoo.com>
>>>>> a ??crit? :
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>> Darren and List
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
>>>>>>              
>>>>> how scientist  have identified over 14,000 compounds
>>>>> and counting. While we are on  the topic of Murchison
>>>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line  that
>>>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
>>>>> Murchison  as quoted from the article as follows....
>>>>>            
>>>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
>>>>>>              
>>>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>>>>>            
>>>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
>>>>>>              
>>>>> older than  the solar system."
>>>>>            
>>>>>> But just how old?
>>>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
>>>>>>              
>>>>> Murchison  meteorite, which is well-known for the
>>>>>            
>>>>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long
>>>>>>              
>>>>> the grains spent  in interstellar space before winding
>>>>> up
>>>>>            
>>>>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
>>>>>>              
>>>>> reported in a  recent paper of the Astrophysical
>>>>> Journal,
>>>>>            
>>>>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
>>>>>>              
>>>>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>>>>>            
>>>>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
>>>>>>              
>>>>> that the  majority of grains spent between 3
>>>>>            
>>>>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before
>>>>>>              
>>>>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>>>>>            
>>>>>> years ago."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>>>>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
>>>>>>              
>>>>> age of presolar  SiC grains found in Murchison
>>>>> meteorite.
>>>>>            
>>>>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Enjoy
>>>>>> Shawn Alan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
>>>>>>              
>>>>> Garrison  cynapse at charter.net
>>>>>            
>>>>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
>>>>>>              
>>>>> Meteorite Hunt -  February 15, 2009
>>>>>            
>>>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
>>>>>>              
>>>>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
>>>>>            
>>>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
>>>>>>              
>>>>> author ]
>>>>>            
>>>>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
>>>>>>              
>>>>> Compounds
>>>>>            
>>>>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
>>>>>>              
>>>>> hasn't quit  giving up its
>>>>>            
>>>>>> secrets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
>>>>>>              
>>>>> space rocks because many
>>>>>            
>>>>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
>>>>>>              
>>>>> it fell through the
>>>>>            
>>>>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
>>>>>>              
>>>>> carbonaceous chondrite was
>>>>>            
>>>>>> recovered.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
>>>>>>              
>>>>> scientists as they were
>>>>>            
>>>>>> formed from material that existed in the solar
>>>>>>              
>>>>> system's  planet-forming disk of
>>>>>            
>>>>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
>>>>>>              
>>>>> holding onto  a 4 billion
>>>>>            
>>>>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
>>>>>>              
>>>>> another clue as to the
>>>>>            
>>>>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
>>>>>>              
>>>>> Earth had formed. In
>>>>>            
>>>>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
>>>>>>              
>>>>> from material  older than our
>>>>>            
>>>>>> sun.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
>>>>>>              
>>>>> saw the  complexity I was so
>>>>>            
>>>>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
>>>>>>              
>>>>> Institute for Ecological
>>>>>            
>>>>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
>>>>>>              
>>>>> to understand them you
>>>>>            
>>>>>> are looking back in time."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This new research made use of high resolution
>>>>>>              
>>>>> spectroscopic tools to identify
>>>>>            
>>>>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
>>>>>>              
>>>>> has provided scientists
>>>>>            
>>>>>> with vast amounts of information about specific
>>>>>>              
>>>>> carbon-based organics before,
>>>>>            
>>>>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
>>>>>>              
>>>>> the  researchers weren't
>>>>>            
>>>>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
>>>>>>              
>>>>> broad analysis  for all the
>>>>>            
>>>>>> chemicals it might contain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
>>>>>>              
>>>>> the primordial  solar system
>>>>>            
>>>>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than
>>>>>>              
>>>>> present-day Earth.
>>>>>            
>>>>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
>>>>>>              
>>>>> amino acids were
>>>>>            
>>>>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
>>>>>>              
>>>>> the iceberg;  the meteorite
>>>>>            
>>>>>> probably contains millions of different organic
>>>>>>              
>>>>> compounds. More detailed
>>>>>            
>>>>>> analysis will now be carried out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity
>>>>>>              
>>>>> of organic chemicals that
>>>>>            
>>>>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will
>>>>>>              
>>>>> help us  understand how life
>>>>>            
>>>>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
>>>>>>              
>>>>> carbonaceous chondrite
>>>>>            
>>>>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
>>>>>>              
>>>>> system,  collecting all the
>>>>>            
>>>>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
>>>>>>              
>>>>> that mean diverse organic
>>>>>            
>>>>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
>>>>>>              
>>>>> systems?
>>>>>            
>>>>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
>>>>>>              
>>>>> asteroids and other
>>>>>            
>>>>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
>>>>>>              
>>>>> life when everywhere else
>>>>>            
>>>>>> seems to be lifeless?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
>>>>>>              
>>>>> to "seed" young star
>>>>>            
>>>>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
>>>>>>              
>>>>> The conditions for life
>>>>>            
>>>>>> may not be that rare after all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>          
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>        
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>      
>
>    


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 16 23:13:13 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:13:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison smells.....
Message-ID: <817269.43871.qm@web113613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Mike G and Listers,
?
Thats funny you asked if Murchison smells cause I have a Murchison fragment?and it smells. At first?I thought that the smell might be due to the foam but I am mistaken and the little sugarier rascal smells. If I am not mistaken, I think the Murchison has water in it and I wonder if the water has something to do with why the Murchison is able to retain its smell?
?
Shawn Alan?
?
?
?
?
Galactic Stone & Ironworks >meteoritemike at gmail.com 
Tue Feb 16 22:48:55 EST 2010 


Previous message: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison..... 
Next message: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison..... 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 

Hi Folks! 

So it's true about the aroma of Murchison? I wish I had a piece big 
enough to smell without actually inhaling it. 

If I try to sniff my current Murchison, it will fly up my nose. LOL 

Best regards, 

MikeG 



On 2/16/10, Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com> wrote: 

> Ha ha! I concur, and must confess that I too love the smell of 

> Murchison in the morning. 

> 

> Sent from Gary's iPhone 

> 

> On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Greg Redfern <gredfern at earthlink.net> 

> wrote: 

> 

>> My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I 

>> LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine 

>> cognac. 

>> 

>> This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-) 

>> 

>> Greg 

>> 

>> 

>> -----Original Message----- 

>>> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> 

>>> Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM 

>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison..... 

>>> 

>>> I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion. 

>>> Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection. 

>>> When information comes out like this, it always adds something even 

>>> more special to it. 

>>> 

>>> Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently 

>>> have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good 

>>> prices on ebay: 

>>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1 

>>> 

>>> Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to 

>>> show that the study of this is ongoing. 

>>> 

>>> Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great! 

>>> 

>>> Greg Catterton 

>>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com 

>>> IMCA member 4682 

>>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote: 

>>> 

>>>> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> 

>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison..... 

>>>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

>>>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM 

>>>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados, 

>>>> 

>>>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us 

>>>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us 

>>>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very 

>>>> first row. 

>>>> 

>>>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted 

>>>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse 

>>>> pattern. 

>>>> 

>>>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular 

>>>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms 

>>>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial 

>>>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant 

>>>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The 

>>>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less 

>>>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that 

>>>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of 

>>>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would 

>>>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements 

>>>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by 

>>>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make 

>>>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could 

>>>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and 

>>>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial) 

>>>> diversity? 

>>>> 

>>>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural 

>>>> scientist ... 

>>>> 

>>>> Best regards, 

>>>> 

>>>> Matthias B. 

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr> 

>>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> 

>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM 

>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison..... 

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> Darren, list, 

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the 

>>>> research we (a 

>>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several 

>>>> months on 

>>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its 

>>>> extraterrestrial 

>>>> organic contents. 

>>>> 

>>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified 

>>>> the list of 

>>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and 

>>>> "organic 

>>>> contant". 

>>>> 

>>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time 

>>>> (right in 

>>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just 

>>>> anounced 

>>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago. 

>>>> 

>>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010). 

>>>> 

>>>> Abstract can be read here: 

>>>> 

>>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763 

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> More discussions are available through various media press 

>>>> comments 

>>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe 

>>>> Schmitt-Kopplin"). 

>>>> 

>>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules 

>>>> we had found 

>>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not 

>>>> targeted. 

>>>> 

>>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands 

>>>> of 

>>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something 

>>>> that seems to 

>>>> provoke debate in the media. 

>>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on 

>>>> meteorites in 

>>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in 

>>>> particular, that 

>>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate... 

>>>> 

>>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that 

>>>> Philippe 

>>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian 

>>>> in 2008. 

>>>> 

>>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where 

>>>> all the 

>>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run. 

>>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his 

>>>> discern and 

>>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his 

>>>> expertise 

>>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial 

>>>> expectations. 

>>>> 

>>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more" 

>>>> other 

>>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming 

>>>> continuously; 

>>>> thay will be published in the months to come. 

>>>> 

>>>> My best wishes, 

>>>> 

>>>> Zelimir 

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> 

>>>> a ??crit? : 

>>>> 

>>>>> Darren and List 

>>>>> 

>>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on 

>>>> how scientist have identified over 14,000 compounds 

>>>> and counting. While we are on the topic of Murchison 

>>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line that 

>>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the 

>>>> Murchison as quoted from the article as follows.... 

>>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar 

>>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago. 

>>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are 

>>>> older than the solar system." 

>>>>> But just how old? 

>>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the 

>>>> Murchison meteorite, which is well-known for the 

>>>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long 

>>>> the grains spent in interstellar space before winding 

>>>> up 

>>>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages, 

>>>> reported in a recent paper of the Astrophysical 

>>>> Journal, 

>>>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system 

>>>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the 

>>>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."...... 

>>>>> 

>>>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate 

>>>> that the majority of grains spent between 3 

>>>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before 

>>>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion 

>>>>> years ago." 

>>>>> 

>>>>> 

>>>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line. 

>>>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf 

>>>>> 

>>>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the 

>>>> age of presolar SiC grains found in Murchison 

>>>> meteorite. 

>>>>> 

>>>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf 

>>>>> 

>>>>> Enjoy 

>>>>> Shawn Alan 

>>>>> 

>>>>> 

>>>>> 

>>>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren 

>>>> Garrison cynapse at charter.net 

>>>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010 

>>>>> 

>>>>> 

>>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas 

>>>> Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009 

>>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite 

>>>> Hunt - February 15, 2009 

>>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ 

>>>> author ] 

>>>>> 

>>>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html 

>>>>> 

>>>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic 

>>>> Compounds 

>>>>> 

>>>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET 

>>>>> 

>>>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia, 

>>>> hasn't quit giving up its 

>>>>> secrets. 

>>>>> 

>>>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied 

>>>> space rocks because many 

>>>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as 

>>>> it fell through the 

>>>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the 

>>>> carbonaceous chondrite was 

>>>>> recovered. 

>>>>> 

>>>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to 

>>>> scientists as they were 

>>>>> formed from material that existed in the solar 

>>>> system's planet-forming disk of 

>>>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules 

>>>> holding onto a 4 billion 

>>>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system. 

>>>>> 

>>>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us 

>>>> another clue as to the 

>>>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the 

>>>> Earth had formed. In 

>>>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated 

>>>> from material older than our 

>>>>> sun. 

>>>>> 

>>>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and 

>>>> saw the complexity I was so 

>>>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the 

>>>> Institute for Ecological 

>>>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany. 

>>>>> 

>>>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try 

>>>> to understand them you 

>>>>> are looking back in time." 

>>>>> 

>>>>> This new research made use of high resolution 

>>>> spectroscopic tools to identify 

>>>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite 

>>>> has provided scientists 

>>>>> with vast amounts of information about specific 

>>>> carbon-based organics before, 

>>>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words, 

>>>> the researchers weren't 

>>>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a 

>>>> broad analysis for all the 

>>>>> chemicals it might contain. 

>>>>> 

>>>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that 

>>>> the primordial solar system 

>>>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than 

>>>> present-day Earth. 

>>>>> 

>>>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70 

>>>> amino acids were 

>>>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of 

>>>> the iceberg; the meteorite 

>>>>> probably contains millions of different organic 

>>>> compounds. More detailed 

>>>>> analysis will now be carried out. 

>>>>> 

>>>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity 

>>>> of organic chemicals that 

>>>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will 

>>>> help us understand how life 

>>>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of 

>>>> carbonaceous chondrite 

>>>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar 

>>>> system, collecting all the 

>>>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does 

>>>> that mean diverse organic 

>>>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star 

>>>> systems? 

>>>>> 

>>>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets, 

>>>> asteroids and other 

>>>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of 

>>>> life when everywhere else 

>>>>> seems to be lifeless? 

>>>>> 

>>>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning 

>>>> to "seed" young star 

>>>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea. 

>>>> The conditions for life 

>>>>> may not be that rare after all. 

>>>>> 

>>>>> ______________________________________________ 

>>>>> Visit the Archives at 

>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 

>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list 

>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

>>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> ______________________________________________ 

>>>> Visit the Archives at 

>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 

>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list 

>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

>>>> 

>>>> ______________________________________________ 

>>>> Visit the Archives at 

>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 

>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list 

>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

>>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> ______________________________________________ 

>>> Visit the Archives at 

>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 

>>> Meteorite-list mailing list 

>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> ______________________________________________ 

>> Visit the Archives at 

>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 

>> Meteorite-list mailing list 

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http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone 
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From minador at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 16 23:27:00 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:27:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball over Tucson 2-16-2010 7:28pm
In-Reply-To: <FB2117BE90A44EDA946ECCE179675749@Gregor>
References: <FB2117BE90A44EDA946ECCE179675749@Gregor>
Message-ID: <656643.54518.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Wow, third one in 2 months!? I know 5 people who saw one on the 9th, but haven't heard more...

Mark B.
Vail, AZ



----- Original Message ----
From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Tue, February 16, 2010 7:58:38 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball over Tucson 2-16-2010 7:28pm

Dear Fireball Chasers:

Mike Farmer wanted to let you know about a large green fireball he witnessed tonight over/near Tucson at about 7:28pm local time. He watched the fireball last for 3-4 seconds heading straight down and due east as he was driving east on Speedway. He suggests it could have fallen in SE Arizona or even New Mexico.

Any radar images, Rob, Marc??

Good luck!!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault


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From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Wed Feb 17 07:38:04 2010
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:38:04 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002161948i255cdb00hd065d24d66ce8c19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100217123804.RB1KI.743571.root@web04-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi All,

Really excited by all this Murchison talk and new science....by some strange luck I 'invested' in a 50g lump before Tucson that should arrive in the post (fingers crossed) within the week...can't wait for a sniff!

Graham E, UK

 
---- Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote: 
> Hi Folks!
> 
> So it's true about the aroma of Murchison?  I wish I had a piece big
> enough to smell without actually inhaling it.
> 
> If I try to sniff my current Murchison, it will fly up my nose. LOL
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> MikeG
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/16/10, Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com> wrote:
> > Ha ha!  I concur, and must confess that I too love the smell of
> > Murchison in the morning.
> >
> > Sent from Gary's iPhone
> >
> > On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Greg Redfern <gredfern at earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I
> >> LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine
> >> cognac.
> >>
> >> This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)
> >>
> >> Greg
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> >>> Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
> >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
> >>>
> >>> I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
> >>> Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
> >>> When information comes out like this, it always adds something even
> >>> more special to it.
> >>>
> >>> Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently
> >>> have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good
> >>> prices on ebay:
> >>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
> >>>
> >>> Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to
> >>> show that the study of this is ongoing.
> >>>
> >>> Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
> >>>
> >>> Greg Catterton
> >>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
> >>> IMCA member 4682
> >>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
> >>>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
> >>>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
> >>>>
> >>>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
> >>>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
> >>>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
> >>>> first row.
> >>>>
> >>>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
> >>>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
> >>>> pattern.
> >>>>
> >>>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
> >>>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
> >>>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
> >>>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
> >>>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
> >>>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
> >>>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
> >>>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
> >>>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
> >>>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
> >>>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
> >>>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
> >>>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
> >>>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
> >>>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
> >>>> diversity?
> >>>>
> >>>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
> >>>> scientist ...
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Matthias B.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
> >>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
> >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Darren, list,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
> >>>> research we (a
> >>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
> >>>> months on
> >>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
> >>>> extraterrestrial
> >>>> organic contents.
> >>>>
> >>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
> >>>> the list of
> >>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
> >>>> "organic
> >>>> contant".
> >>>>
> >>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
> >>>> (right in
> >>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
> >>>> anounced
> >>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
> >>>>
> >>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
> >>>>
> >>>> Abstract can be read here:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> More discussions are available through various media press
> >>>> comments
> >>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
> >>>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
> >>>>
> >>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
> >>>> we had found
> >>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
> >>>> targeted.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
> >>>> of
> >>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
> >>>> that seems to
> >>>> provoke debate in the media.
> >>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
> >>>> meteorites in
> >>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
> >>>> particular, that
> >>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
> >>>>
> >>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
> >>>> Philippe
> >>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
> >>>> in 2008.
> >>>>
> >>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
> >>>> all the
> >>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
> >>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
> >>>> discern and
> >>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
> >>>> expertise
> >>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
> >>>> expectations.
> >>>>
> >>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
> >>>> other
> >>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
> >>>> continuously;
> >>>> thay will be published in the months to come.
> >>>>
> >>>> My best wishes,
> >>>>
> >>>> Zelimir
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> >>>> a ??crit? :
> >>>>
> >>>>> Darren and List
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
> >>>> how scientist  have identified over 14,000 compounds
> >>>> and counting. While we are on  the topic of Murchison
> >>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line  that
> >>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
> >>>> Murchison  as quoted from the article as follows....
> >>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
> >>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
> >>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
> >>>> older than  the solar system."
> >>>>> But just how old?
> >>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
> >>>> Murchison  meteorite, which is well-known for the
> >>>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long
> >>>> the grains spent  in interstellar space before winding
> >>>> up
> >>>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
> >>>> reported in a  recent paper of the Astrophysical
> >>>> Journal,
> >>>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
> >>>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
> >>>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
> >>>> that the  majority of grains spent between 3
> >>>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before
> >>>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
> >>>>> years ago."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
> >>>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
> >>>> age of presolar  SiC grains found in Murchison
> >>>> meteorite.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Enjoy
> >>>>> Shawn Alan
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
> >>>> Garrison  cynapse at charter.net
> >>>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
> >>>> Meteorite Hunt -  February 15, 2009
> >>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
> >>>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
> >>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
> >>>> author ]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
> >>>> Compounds
> >>>>>
> >>>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
> >>>> hasn't quit  giving up its
> >>>>> secrets.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
> >>>> space rocks because many
> >>>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
> >>>> it fell through the
> >>>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
> >>>> carbonaceous chondrite was
> >>>>> recovered.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
> >>>> scientists as they were
> >>>>> formed from material that existed in the solar
> >>>> system's  planet-forming disk of
> >>>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
> >>>> holding onto  a 4 billion
> >>>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
> >>>> another clue as to the
> >>>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
> >>>> Earth had formed. In
> >>>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
> >>>> from material  older than our
> >>>>> sun.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
> >>>> saw the  complexity I was so
> >>>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
> >>>> Institute for Ecological
> >>>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
> >>>> to understand them you
> >>>>> are looking back in time."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This new research made use of high resolution
> >>>> spectroscopic tools to identify
> >>>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
> >>>> has provided scientists
> >>>>> with vast amounts of information about specific
> >>>> carbon-based organics before,
> >>>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
> >>>> the  researchers weren't
> >>>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
> >>>> broad analysis  for all the
> >>>>> chemicals it might contain.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
> >>>> the primordial  solar system
> >>>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than
> >>>> present-day Earth.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
> >>>> amino acids were
> >>>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
> >>>> the iceberg;  the meteorite
> >>>>> probably contains millions of different organic
> >>>> compounds. More detailed
> >>>>> analysis will now be carried out.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity
> >>>> of organic chemicals that
> >>>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will
> >>>> help us  understand how life
> >>>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
> >>>> carbonaceous chondrite
> >>>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
> >>>> system,  collecting all the
> >>>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
> >>>> that mean diverse organic
> >>>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
> >>>> systems?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
> >>>> asteroids and other
> >>>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
> >>>> life when everywhere else
> >>>>> seems to be lifeless?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
> >>>> to "seed" young star
> >>>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
> >>>> The conditions for life
> >>>>> may not be that rare after all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ______________________________________________
> >>>>> Visit the Archives at
> >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ______________________________________________
> >>>> Visit the Archives at
> >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>>>
> >>>> ______________________________________________
> >>>> Visit the Archives at
> >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________________________
> >>> Visit the Archives at
> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> Visit the Archives at
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Wed Feb 17 08:02:30 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:02:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 17,
	2010
Message-ID: <442437690.20351266411750274.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_17_2010.html



From bolidechaser at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 10:49:55 2010
From: bolidechaser at yahoo.com (Robert Verish)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:49:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Small Asteroids Are Held Together by Van Der Waals
	Forces
Message-ID: <996542.64766.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

<http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24818/?ref=rss>

Tuesday, February 16, 2010
Small Asteroids Are Held Together by Van Der Waals Forces

Small spinning asteroids are piles of rubble and dust that ought to fly apart but don't. Now astronomers have worked out why not. 

Interesting comments,
Bob V.
<http://meteorite-recovery.org/>


From cdtucson at cox.net  Wed Feb 17 11:04:21 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:04:21 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pictures of earth
Message-ID: <20100217110421.GW6YJ.733048.imail@fed1rmwml35>

Here are pictures of Earth by Sunita Wiklliams from space. Enjoy
Be sure and click on Full in lower right just below screen for full screen images.

http://www.slideshare.net/LawrenceCarson/astronaut-sunita-williams-pics-of-earth

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax



From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Wed Feb 17 11:13:19 2010
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 17 Feb 2010 16:13:19 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Test - Please ignore
Message-ID: <DIIE.000000BD0000453F@paulinet.de>

Bernd



From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr  Wed Feb 17 11:17:03 2010
From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:17:03 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
In-Reply-To: <CC71CDC220074F00B2ADA10018B9106B@thinkcentre>
References: <873024.82174.qm@web113619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<20100216215845.anl2an6jvx44wc4s@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>
	<CC71CDC220074F00B2ADA10018B9106B@thinkcentre>
Message-ID: <20100217171703.gijsi7s6fef44ock@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>


Dear Matthias,

Your questions are very pertinent. I'll try to reply the best I can,  
by trying to avoid confusion between "diversity" and "complexity".

Let's try to simplify.
Here is my modest understanding of the issue, bearing in mind I am by  
no means an expert in biology and its development, neither I am  
regarding the conditions in space that can provoke (or at least had  
provoked in Murchison) a high molecular diversity.

Our spectra richness gives (experimental) evidence of intrinsic and  
compositional diversity in space, within and across chemical classes,  
which is an acknowledged feature of extraterrestrial chemistry (see  
e.g. J. R. Cronin et al., Geochim. Cosmochim. Acta 57 (1993), 4745
Comparable but lesser diversity was also found in terrestrial organic  
matter. Ref.: N. Hertkorn et al., Anal. Chem. 80 (2008), 9808 ;  
Norbert Hertkorn, co-author of our paper, is expert, along with Phil  
Schmitt-Kopplin, of NOM's (Natural Organic Matter, thus "humic acids"  
& related, present in terrestrial aqueous systems ....)

To answer more specifically your 6 questions (that are related), I'd say:
No, the development of life does not depend (necessarily) on a kind of  
reduction of chemical diversity.
In other words, life can develop (as it did on Earth) from a  
relatively small (reduced or not) number of initial molecules,  
provided some other parameters (than in space) act as driving force  
(presence of oxygen, water (under ambient conditions), ambient (= not  
extreme) temperature.....).
But this does not imply that it can't develop from a large number of  
molecules as well.
This does certainly not mean that such a life did not develop  
"somewhere in space" under different conditions.
As mentioned J. R. Beda in his comments on our paper in "C&EN" (Feb 16, 2010):
"The challenge now is to fish out molecules that may have some  
important early biochemical role".

Would life be linked to a process of picking up elements out of the  
construction kit and combine them ?
I defy anyone to answer that question.

Now regarding distinction between diversity and complexity, I don't  
imagine that the complexity of terrestrial biochemical "space" is  
necessarily a result of reduction of (initial) diversity.
I believe this can also most probably occur if a high diversity is maintained.
In other words, should the high diversity of molecules (such as we  
found in Murchison) be also present on Earth at the time when the  
conditions were conductive to the expansion of life, this expansion  
would probably have occurred as readily as if that diversity was  
somewhat restricted (this is an hypothesis that I'd be glad if someone  
more expert than me could comment - but not necessarily confirm).

To conclude, we give in our paper a little more detailed picture than  
what is summarized in one sentence of the abstract.
The DIVERSITY of extraterrestrial organics was driven (but also  
possibly sometimes restricted) by "extreme" physical parameters such  
as "temperature", radiation, various alterations....leading to a  
selectivity of reaction pathways (entropy-driven continuous  
distribution of molecular compositions and structural characteristics  
of ABIOTIC syntheses).
Such thermodynamic and kinetic constraints might deviate from  
terrestrial biogeochemistry, under our current mild conditions  
(oxygen, ambient temperature etc).
In other words, these latter conditions could lead, from a restricted  
number of initial molecules (but not necessarily restricted!) to a  
high and EARTH-SPECIFIC COMPLEXITY, by inducing various favorable  
transformations.

Just some thoughts from a non expert chemist. I encourage Phil  
Schmitt-Kopplin, who is reading us, to possibly add his own comments.
I also stay flexible to any (constructive or destructive) remark from  
any of you.

Matthias, I will forward you the full paper as attachment.
Unfortunately, for the list, I have no link to provide. Those  
interested, feel fee to request a copy.

Kind regards to all,

Zelimir

Oh, I almost forgot:
YES, definitely Murchison smells (a quite strong smell, not really  
unpleasent, especially when the sample was sealed in some jar for  
years).



Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> a ??crit??:

> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
>
> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us about  
> your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us so the  
> feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very first row.
>
> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted focus of  
> investigation leads directly to a highly diverse pattern.
>
> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular complexity,  
> which provides hints on heteroatoms chronological assembly, suggests  
> that the extraterrestrial chemodiversity is high compared to  
> terrestrial relevant biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical  
> space." The high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the  
> less diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that  
> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of  
> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would be  
> essentially linked to a process of picking up elements out of the  
> construction kit? But than it begins to play by combining them?  
> Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make a strong distinction  
> between diversity and complexity? Could that mean that the  
> complexity of terrestrial biological and biochemical "space" is a  
> result of reduction of (initial) diversity?
>
> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural scientist ...
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matthias B.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>
>
>
> Darren, list,
>
>
> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the research we (a
> group of scientists) are being conducting since several months on
> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its extraterrestrial
> organic contents.
>
> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified the list of
> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and "organic
> contant".
>
> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time (right in
> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just anounced
> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>
> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>
> Abstract can be read here:
>
> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>
>
> More discussions are available through various media press comments
> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>
> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules we had found
> originated from the fact that the screening was not targeted.
>
> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands of
> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something that seems to
> provoke debate in the media.
> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on meteorites in
> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in particular, that
> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>
> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that Philippe
> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian in 2008.
>
> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where all the
> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his discern and
> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his expertise
> that caused its success beyond any of our initial expectations.
>
> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more" other
> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming continuously;
> thay will be published in the months to come.
>
> My best wishes,
>
> Zelimir
>
>
> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> a ??crit? :
>
>> Darren and List
>>
>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on how scientist   
>> have identified over 14,000 compounds and counting. While we are on  
>>  the topic of Murchison meteorite, I came across an article on line  
>>  that points out these interesting facts and finds on the Murchison  
>>  as quoted from the article as follows....
>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar system,"  
>> says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are older than   
>> the solar system."
>> But just how old?
>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the Murchison   
>> meteorite, which is well-known for the
>> organic material it contains, and measured how long the grains  
>> spent  in interstellar space before winding up
>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages, reported in a   
>> recent paper of the Astrophysical Journal,
>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system formed after a  
>> smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>>
>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate that the   
>> majority of grains spent between 3
>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before falling into our  
>> molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>> years ago."
>>
>>
>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>>
>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the age of  
>> presolar  SiC grains found in Murchison meteorite.
>>
>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>>
>> Enjoy
>> Shawn Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren Garrison   
>> cynapse at charter.net
>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>>
>>
>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt -   
>> February 15, 2009
>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009
>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>>
>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>>
>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic Compounds
>>
>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>>
>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia, hasn't quit   
>> giving up its
>> secrets.
>>
>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied space rocks because many
>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as it fell through the
>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the carbonaceous chondrite was
>> recovered.
>>
>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to scientists as they were
>> formed from material that existed in the solar system's   
>> planet-forming disk of
>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules holding onto  
>>  a 4 billion
>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>>
>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us another clue as to the
>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the Earth had formed. In
>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated from material   
>> older than our
>> sun.
>>
>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and saw the   
>> complexity I was so
>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the Institute for Ecological
>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>>
>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try to  
>> understand them you
>> are looking back in time."
>>
>> This new research made use of high resolution spectroscopic tools  
>> to identify
>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite has provided  
>> scientists
>> with vast amounts of information about specific carbon-based  
>> organics before,
>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words, the   
>> researchers weren't
>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a broad analysis   
>> for all the
>> chemicals it might contain.
>>
>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that the primordial  
>>  solar system
>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than present-day Earth.
>>
>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70 amino acids were
>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of the iceberg;   
>> the meteorite
>> probably contains millions of different organic compounds. More detailed
>> analysis will now be carried out.
>>
>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity of organic  
>> chemicals that
>> were floating around a primordial solar system will help us   
>> understand how life
>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of carbonaceous chondrite
>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar system,   
>> collecting all the
>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does that mean  
>> diverse organic
>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star systems?
>>
>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets, asteroids and other
>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of life when  
>> everywhere else
>> seems to be lifeless?
>>
>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning to "seed" young star
>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea. The  
>> conditions for life
>> may not be that rare after all.
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at  
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at  
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list  
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at  
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list





From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 11:20:26 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:20:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Update on NEO computer hack
Message-ID: <314294.90816.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


"As a result of the recent hacking at CfA and the consequent
uncertainty as to when we will be able to update the website at
CfA, the Minor Planet Center is announcing (several months ahead
of its planned date) the availability of its official mirror
site:

http://www.minorpla netcenter. org/iau/mpc. html

It will eventually be an exact copy of the CfA site. At the
moment, it is nowhere near complete. The only links that are
functional currently are:

1) Recent MPECs page, along with the MPECs issued in 2010.
2) The MPC Status page (and the E-Mail Woes pages)
3) The NEOCP
4) The MPES
5) The New Object Ephemeris Generator
and any link to a script or page on the MPC's webserver.

Other links will be made active in the near future, but the priority
was to the NEOCP and MPECs back on the web. Until access to the
main CfA site is restored, the copying to the mirror site will
be very slow.

If you experience problems using the new mirror site, send a full
report via the Feedback Forms.

Gareth"




      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 11:42:26 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:42:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact catalogues, anyone?
Message-ID: <95106.9679.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

>From the MPML mailing list. 

"Good morning all.

I am interested in the latest research on how many known impact sites there are on earth. I thought the number was under a hundred - but my information may be several decades old.

I just started watching a program on the science channel, Meteorite Men. I know, sounds a bit hoaky. But it is interesting to see them find meteorites from a few ounces to several hundred pounds on a regular bases. During a recent episode they showed a map of Kansas with known meteor strikes/fields - apparently associated with past meteorite finds. There appeared to be more then a hundreds sites depicted in the map. So now I am wondering just how many known sites there are and also the number of known impact craters.

Where would one go to find authoritative information on the subject?

If I should be asking the question on a different list, just point me in the right direction.

Terry - W6LMJ"

 




      


From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Wed Feb 17 12:03:56 2010
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:03:56 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact catalogues, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <95106.9679.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100217170356.F13EQ.748001.root@web03-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Try here...

http://www.unb.ca/passc/ImpactDatabase/index.html

but not updated since March last year.

Around 120 confirmed I think.


---- "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Hi all - 
> 
> >From the MPML mailing list. 
> 
> "Good morning all.
> 
> I am interested in the latest research on how many known impact sites there are on earth. I thought the number was under a hundred - but my information may be several decades old.
> 
> I just started watching a program on the science channel, Meteorite Men. I know, sounds a bit hoaky. But it is interesting to see them find meteorites from a few ounces to several hundred pounds on a regular bases. During a recent episode they showed a map of Kansas with known meteor strikes/fields - apparently associated with past meteorite finds. There appeared to be more then a hundreds sites depicted in the map. So now I am wondering just how many known sites there are and also the number of known impact craters.
> 
> Where would one go to find authoritative information on the subject?
> 
> If I should be asking the question on a different list, just point me in the right direction.
> 
> Terry - W6LMJ"
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From balisterjames at att.net  Wed Feb 17 12:06:25 2010
From: balisterjames at att.net (James Balister)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:06:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact catalogues, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <95106.9679.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <95106.9679.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <498436.20366.qm@web180105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Terry,? I think you have got a lot of reading ahead of you.? This site /list is a good place to learn about meteorites.? The map you saw that had so many marks on it were points where meteorites have been found.? When a meteor explodes in the air and the pieces fall to the ground is called a strewn field.? There are many all over the world.? What part of the world do you live in?? There is a catalog that lists where meteorites have been found, but it is very expensive.



----- Original Message ----
> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 10:42:26 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact catalogues, anyone?
> 
> Hi all - 

>From the MPML mailing list. 

"Good morning 
> all.

I am interested in the latest research on how many known impact 
> sites there are on earth. I thought the number was under a hundred - but my 
> information may be several decades old.

I just started watching a program 
> on the science channel, Meteorite Men. I know, sounds a bit hoaky. But it is 
> interesting to see them find meteorites from a few ounces to several hundred 
> pounds on a regular bases. During a recent episode they showed a map of Kansas 
> with known meteor strikes/fields - apparently associated with past meteorite 
> finds. There appeared to be more then a hundreds sites depicted in the map. So 
> now I am wondering just how many known sites there are and also the number of 
> known impact craters.

Where would one go to find authoritative 
> information on the subject?

If I should be asking the question on a 
> different list, just point me in the right direction.

Terry - 
> W6LMJ"






? ? ? 
> 
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list 
> mailing list
> href="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Wed Feb 17 12:30:36 2010
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:30:36 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact catalogues, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <498436.20366.qm@web180105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100217173036.5FAYE.748819.root@web03-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Terry,

As James says there are many places documented where falls have occurred and meteorites can still be found.

They are not necessarily found near the large documented craters due to ages of the craters or the fact that the impactors were mostly completely vapourized....more likely to be found in historical strewnfields that fell to earth much more gently and survived.

Coordinates are usually given to falls here...

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php

Graham


---- James Balister <balisterjames at att.net> wrote: 
> Terry,? I think you have got a lot of reading ahead of you.? This site /list is a good place to learn about meteorites.? The map you saw that had so many marks on it were points where meteorites have been found.? When a meteor explodes in the air and the pieces fall to the ground is called a strewn field.? There are many all over the world.? What part of the world do you live in?? There is a catalog that lists where meteorites have been found, but it is very expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 10:42:26 AM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact catalogues, anyone?
> > 
> > Hi all - 
> 
> >From the MPML mailing list. 
> 
> "Good morning 
> > all.
> 
> I am interested in the latest research on how many known impact 
> > sites there are on earth. I thought the number was under a hundred - but my 
> > information may be several decades old.
> 
> I just started watching a program 
> > on the science channel, Meteorite Men. I know, sounds a bit hoaky. But it is 
> > interesting to see them find meteorites from a few ounces to several hundred 
> > pounds on a regular bases. During a recent episode they showed a map of Kansas 
> > with known meteor strikes/fields - apparently associated with past meteorite 
> > finds. There appeared to be more then a hundreds sites depicted in the map. So 
> > now I am wondering just how many known sites there are and also the number of 
> > known impact craters.
> 
> Where would one go to find authoritative 
> > information on the subject?
> 
> If I should be asking the question on a 
> > different list, just point me in the right direction.
> 
> Terry - 
> > W6LMJ"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> > 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list 
> > mailing list
> > href="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Wed Feb 17 12:38:22 2010
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:38:22 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Degrees in Meteoritics
Message-ID: <c3cf.1a933671.38ad838e@aol.com>

Hello List,

I have just had a high school  aged viewer of our show "Meteorite Men" 
contact me asking for all the  Universities that offer some type of Meteoritics 
degrees, as it seems after  watching some of our episodes, this is now the 
direction this young man wants to  pursue as a vocation.

I was curious if there is a comprehensive list of  the institutions that 
offer either undergraduate or post graduate courses  in what might be grouped 
as "Meteoritics"?  As Geoff and I begin to do more  work speaking to Junior 
High and High School aged kids, it would seem that this  might be a common 
question for us to be asked, and I would want to be prepared  to offer the 
best answer possible.

On a side note, is there much demand  for new meteorite scientists out 
there?  If all the slots are filled, or  someone isn't likely to be able to get 
a job once they would get a degree, I  might want to caution kids not to get 
too serious about this field for a career  without seriously evaluating the 
options first.  But since I am not one to  try to quash anyone's dreams, I 
would like to be as helpful as  possible.

And as a reminder, tonight is our Dry Lake Bed hunt episode of  Meteorite 
Men on Science Channel with our amazing guest stars Sonny Clary and  his dog 
Brix.  I hope the fun we had on this expedition comes through in  the final 
cut.  The only time I ever experienced anything close to what  happens 
tonight was 13 years or so ago when I took several trips to Imilac and I  found a 
lot of small pieces in a small area.  It was a blast to shoot this  episode 
and I look forward to being able to share it with the world.    I will be 
putting some of the meteorites I found on the show up on Ebay with buy  it 
now, so if you want one of the finds, check that out a little later today.  

Steve Arnold
of "Meteorite Men"  



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 12:59:59 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:59:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact catalogues, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <20100217173036.5FAYE.748819.root@web03-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <772790.16731.qm@web113605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Ed reposted a message from MPML. I do not think Terry is on this list, so responding to him here probably won't get him the information he requested.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Wed, 2/17/10, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Impact catalogues, anyone?
> To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, "James Balister" <balisterjames at att.net>
> Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 10:30 AM
> Terry,
> 
> As James says there are many places documented where falls
> have occurred and meteorites can still be found.
> 
> They are not necessarily found near the large documented
> craters due to ages of the craters or the fact that the
> impactors were mostly completely vapourized....more likely
> to be found in historical strewnfields that fell to earth
> much more gently and survived.
> 
> Coordinates are usually given to falls here...
> 
> http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php
> 
> Graham
> 
> 
> ---- James Balister <balisterjames at att.net>
> wrote: 
> > Terry,? I think you have got a lot of reading ahead
> of you.? This site /list is a good place to learn about
> meteorites.? The map you saw that had so many marks on it
> were points where meteorites have been found.? When a
> meteor explodes in the air and the pieces fall to the ground
> is called a strewn field.? There are many all over the
> world.? What part of the world do you live in?? There is a
> catalog that lists where meteorites have been found, but it
> is very expensive.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 10:42:26 AM
> > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact catalogues,
> anyone?
> > > 
> > > Hi all - 
> > 
> > >From the MPML mailing list. 
> > 
> > "Good morning 
> > > all.
> > 
> > I am interested in the latest research on how many
> known impact 
> > > sites there are on earth. I thought the number
> was under a hundred - but my 
> > > information may be several decades old.
> > 
> > I just started watching a program 
> > > on the science channel, Meteorite Men. I know,
> sounds a bit hoaky. But it is 
> > > interesting to see them find meteorites from a
> few ounces to several hundred 
> > > pounds on a regular bases. During a recent
> episode they showed a map of Kansas 
> > > with known meteor strikes/fields - apparently
> associated with past meteorite 
> > > finds. There appeared to be more then a hundreds
> sites depicted in the map. So 
> > > now I am wondering just how many known sites
> there are and also the number of 
> > > known impact craters.
> > 
> > Where would one go to find authoritative 
> > > information on the subject?
> > 
> > If I should be asking the question on a 
> > > different list, just point me in the right
> direction.
> > 
> > Terry - 
> > > W6LMJ"
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ? ? ? 
> > > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at 
> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list 
> > > mailing list
> > > href="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Wed Feb 17 12:49:23 2010
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:49:23 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Degrees in Meteoritics
References: <c3cf.1a933671.38ad838e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A4761A25574A4AF9825003865BA46C9F@bellatrix>

There is no such thing as an undergraduate degree in meteoritics. Many good 
schools, however, should provide independent study opportunities for 
students with astronomy, geology, geophysics type majors to explore the 
area.

The situation is different with graduate studies, however. Here, you would 
look for an academic researcher as an advisor, and you'd work on an advanced 
degree under that person (and whatever department he happened to be 
associated with). You don't get a PhD in any particular subject, you choose 
your research and specialization based on your own interests and the 
expertise of your advisor and other staff at a particular institution.

IMO there is more than enough room for some more meteoritics researchers, so 
there's no reason to discourage high school students from pursuing this 
area. Realistically, very few will actually do so. They should focus their 
undergraduate studies in the physical sciences.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <MeteorHntr at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 10:38 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Degrees in Meteoritics


> Hello List,
>
> I have just had a high school  aged viewer of our show "Meteorite Men"
> contact me asking for all the  Universities that offer some type of 
> Meteoritics
> degrees, as it seems after  watching some of our episodes, this is now the
> direction this young man wants to  pursue as a vocation.
>
> I was curious if there is a comprehensive list of  the institutions that
> offer either undergraduate or post graduate courses  in what might be 
> grouped
> as "Meteoritics"?  As Geoff and I begin to do more  work speaking to 
> Junior
> High and High School aged kids, it would seem that this  might be a common
> question for us to be asked, and I would want to be prepared  to offer the
> best answer possible.
>
> On a side note, is there much demand  for new meteorite scientists out
> there?  If all the slots are filled, or  someone isn't likely to be able 
> to get
> a job once they would get a degree, I  might want to caution kids not to 
> get
> too serious about this field for a career  without seriously evaluating 
> the
> options first.  But since I am not one to  try to quash anyone's dreams, I
> would like to be as helpful as  possible.
>
> And as a reminder, tonight is our Dry Lake Bed hunt episode of  Meteorite
> Men on Science Channel with our amazing guest stars Sonny Clary and  his 
> dog
> Brix.  I hope the fun we had on this expedition comes through in  the 
> final
> cut.  The only time I ever experienced anything close to what  happens
> tonight was 13 years or so ago when I took several trips to Imilac and I 
> found a
> lot of small pieces in a small area.  It was a blast to shoot this 
> episode
> and I look forward to being able to share it with the world.    I will be
> putting some of the meteorites I found on the show up on Ebay with buy  it
> now, so if you want one of the finds, check that out a little later today.
>
> Steve Arnold



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Feb 17 13:24:17 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:24:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's WISE Mission Releases Medley of First Images
Message-ID: <201002171824.o1HIOH1S024281@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



Feb. 17, 2010

J.D. Harrington 
Headquarters, Washington 
202-358-5241 
j.d.harrington at nasa.gov 

Whitney Clavin 
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 
818-354-4673 
whitney.clavin at jpl.nasa.gov 

RELEASE: 10-038

NASA'S WISE MISSION RELEASES MEDLEY OF FIRST IMAGES

WASHINGTON -- A diverse cast of cosmic characters is showcased in the 
first survey images NASA released Wednesday from its Wide-field 
Infrared Survey Explorer, or WISE. 

Since WISE began its scan of the entire sky in infrared light on Jan. 
14, the space telescope has beamed back more than a quarter of a 
million raw, infrared images. Four new, processed pictures illustrate 
a sampling of the mission's targets -- a wispy comet, a bursting 
star-forming cloud, the grand Andromeda galaxy and a faraway cluster 
of hundreds of galaxies. The images are online at: 

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/WISE/multimedia/images20100216.html 

"WISE has worked superbly," said Ed Weiler, associate administrator of 
the Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters in Washington. 
"These first images are proving the spacecraft's secondary mission of 
helping to track asteroids, comets and other stellar objects will be 
just as critically important as its primary mission of surveying the 
entire sky in infrared." 

One image shows the beauty of a comet called Siding Spring. As the 
comet parades toward the sun, it sheds dust that glows in infrared 
light visible to WISE. The comet's tail, which stretches about 10 
million miles, looks like a streak of red paint. A bright star 
appears below it in blue. 

"We've got a candy store of images coming down from space," said 
Edward (Ned) Wright of UCLA, the principal investigator for WISE. 
"Everyone has their favorite flavors, and we've got them all." 

During its survey, the mission is expected to find perhaps dozens of 
comets, including some that ride along in orbits that take them 
somewhat close to Earth's path around the sun. WISE will help unravel 
clues locked inside comets about how our solar system came to be. 

Another image shows a bright and choppy star-forming region called NGC 
3603, lying 20,000 light-years away in the Carina spiral arm of our 
Milky Way galaxy. This star-forming factory is churning out batches 
of new stars, some of which are monstrously massive and hotter than 
the sun. The hot stars warm the surrounding dust clouds, causing them 
to glow at infrared wavelengths. 

WISE will see hundreds of similar star-making regions in our galaxy, 
helping astronomers piece together a picture of how stars are born. 
The observations also provide an important link to understanding 
violent episodes of star formation in distant galaxies. Because NGC 
3603 is much closer, astronomers use it as a lab to probe the same 
type of action that is taking place billions of light-years away. 

Traveling farther out from our Milky Way, the third new image shows 
our nearest large neighbor, the Andromeda spiral galaxy. Andromeda is 
a bit bigger than our Milky Way and about 2.5 million light-years 
away. The new picture highlights WISE's wide field of view -- it 
covers an area larger than 100 full moons and even shows other 
smaller galaxies near Andromeda, all belonging to our "local group" 
of more than about 50 galaxies. WISE will capture the entire local 
group. 

The fourth WISE picture is even farther out, in a region of hundreds 
of galaxies all bound together into one family. Called the Fornax 
cluster, these galaxies are 60 million light-years from Earth. The 
mission's infrared views reveal both stagnant and active galaxies, 
providing a census of data on an entire galactic community. 

"All these pictures tell a story about our dusty origins and destiny," 
said Peter Eisenhardt, the WISE project scientist at NASA's Jet 
Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. "WISE sees dusty comets and 
rocky asteroids tracing the formation and evolution of our solar 
system. We can map thousands of forming and dying solar systems 
across our entire galaxy. We can see patterns of star formation 
across other galaxies, and waves of star-bursting galaxies in 
clusters millions of light years away." 

Other mission targets include comets, asteroids and cool stars called 
brown dwarfs. WISE discovered its first near-Earth asteroid on Jan. 
12 and first comet on Jan. 22. The mission will scan the sky 
one-and-a-half times by October. At that point, the frozen coolant 
needed to chill its instruments will be depleted. 

JPL manages WISE for NASA's Science Mission Directorate. The mission 
was competitively selected under NASA's Explorers Program, which 
NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., manages. The 
Space Dynamics Laboratory in Logan, Utah, built the science 
instrument, and Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp. of Boulder, 
Colo., built the spacecraft. Science operations and data processing 
take place at the Infrared Processing and Analysis Center at the 
California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 

For more information about WISE, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/wise 

To read about the near-Earth asteroid WISE discovered Jan. 12, visit: 

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/wise/newsfeatures.cfm?release=2459 

-end-



From jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 13:30:33 2010
From: jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com (Jason Chadwick)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:30:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be movie stars...
Message-ID: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hey,

That is just great Steve Arnold of "meteorite men".  Did not Sonny Clary get arrested last year in Georgia. Literally chased out of the state?  Your show is irresponsible.

Jason Chadwick


      



From erikfwebb at msn.com  Wed Feb 17 14:10:09 2010
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:10:09 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Degrees in Meteoritics
In-Reply-To: <A4761A25574A4AF9825003865BA46C9F@bellatrix>
References: <c3cf.1a933671.38ad838e@aol.com>,
	<A4761A25574A4AF9825003865BA46C9F@bellatrix>
Message-ID: <COL119-W249244822B8A28E2E037C1A4480@phx.gbl>


I was just going to major in Geology and go from there.? Any suggestions?

[Erik]

> From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:49:23 -0700
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Degrees in Meteoritics
> 
> There is no such thing as an undergraduate degree in meteoritics. Many good 
> schools, however, should provide independent study opportunities for 
> students with astronomy, geology, geophysics type majors to explore the 
> area.
> 
> The situation is different with graduate studies, however. Here, you would 
> look for an academic researcher as an advisor, and you'd work on an advanced 
> degree under that person (and whatever department he happened to be 
> associated with). You don't get a PhD in any particular subject, you choose 
> your research and specialization based on your own interests and the 
> expertise of your advisor and other staff at a particular institution.
> 
> IMO there is more than enough room for some more meteoritics researchers, so 
> there's no reason to discourage high school students from pursuing this 
> area. Realistically, very few will actually do so. They should focus their 
> undergraduate studies in the physical sciences.
> 
> Chris
> 
> *****************************************
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <MeteorHntr at aol.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 10:38 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Degrees in Meteoritics
> 
> 
>> Hello List,
>>
>> I have just had a high school  aged viewer of our show "Meteorite Men"
>> contact me asking for all the  Universities that offer some type of 
>> Meteoritics
>> degrees, as it seems after  watching some of our episodes, this is now the
>> direction this young man wants to  pursue as a vocation.
>>
>> I was curious if there is a comprehensive list of  the institutions that
>> offer either undergraduate or post graduate courses  in what might be 
>> grouped
>> as "Meteoritics"?  As Geoff and I begin to do more  work speaking to 
>> Junior
>> High and High School aged kids, it would seem that this  might be a common
>> question for us to be asked, and I would want to be prepared  to offer the
>> best answer possible.
>>
>> On a side note, is there much demand  for new meteorite scientists out
>> there?  If all the slots are filled, or  someone isn't likely to be able 
>> to get
>> a job once they would get a degree, I  might want to caution kids not to 
>> get
>> too serious about this field for a career  without seriously evaluating 
>> the
>> options first.  But since I am not one to  try to quash anyone's dreams, I
>> would like to be as helpful as  possible.
>>
>> And as a reminder, tonight is our Dry Lake Bed hunt episode of  Meteorite
>> Men on Science Channel with our amazing guest stars Sonny Clary and  his 
>> dog
>> Brix.  I hope the fun we had on this expedition comes through in  the 
>> final
>> cut.  The only time I ever experienced anything close to what  happens
>> tonight was 13 years or so ago when I took several trips to Imilac and I 
>> found a
>> lot of small pieces in a small area.  It was a blast to shoot this 
>> episode
>> and I look forward to being able to share it with the world.    I will be
>> putting some of the meteorites I found on the show up on Ebay with buy  it
>> now, so if you want one of the finds, check that out a little later today.
>>
>> Steve Arnold
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  

From erikfwebb at msn.com  Wed Feb 17 14:16:53 2010
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:16:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] MEGABRECCIA
Message-ID: <COL119-W18C2E5FFF31DB136344C3BA4480@phx.gbl>


I though I'd seen some big breccia in meteorites till I saw this!!! 

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007767_1970
This breccia is 30 meters across!? :o
 		 	   		  

From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Wed Feb 17 14:23:57 2010
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:23:57 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Degrees in Meteoritics
References: <c3cf.1a933671.38ad838e@aol.com>,
	<A4761A25574A4AF9825003865BA46C9F@bellatrix>
	<COL119-W249244822B8A28E2E037C1A4480@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B385195D92394090A7555687025A106A@bellatrix>

Physics. Lots of physics. Some schools have geology programs that are 
focused more on geomorphology and geologic processes, and some more on 
mineralogy. The latter is more useful for a meteoriticist. Look for a 
geology program that emphasizes the physics and chemistry more than 
classification. And some good astronomy courses can't hurt, either. They're 
rocks, but they're rocks from space!

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Erik Fisler" <erikfwebb at msn.com>
To: "meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Degrees in Meteoritics



I was just going to major in Geology and go from there. Any suggestions?

[Erik]



From twelker at alaska.net  Wed Feb 17 13:26:32 2010
From: twelker at alaska.net (Eric Twelker)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:26:32 -0900
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men DVD
Message-ID: <AFB425A5-6D54-4BB1-AD8F-72A3856AF199@alaska.net>

Are DVDs of the later episodes of "Meteorite Men" available for sale  
or download?  Darren posted a link to the first (thanks!), but the  
others sound good too. I don't have TV here . . .
Eric Twelker




From ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com  Wed Feb 17 14:31:31 2010
From: ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com (Matson, Robert D.)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:31:31 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Casting stones
In-Reply-To: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702CD5E6A@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Hi Jason,

I doubt I'll be the only list member to opine that the good things
that Sonny Clary has done -- and continues to do -- for meteoritics
and the meteorite community carry far more weight than the one
painful misstep that you've singled out. Who among us has not made
an unfortunate decision at some point in his or her life that they
wish could be undone? For instance, do you heap similar scorn on Bob
Haag for his 1992 Campo incident in Argentina?

If you have the good fortune to ever meet either of these men, you
will find them to be friendly, engaging, passionate individuals.
These qualities (not to mention Sonny's considerable skills) are
what made him an attractive choice for Geoff and Steve's show.

Best,
Rob


From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 14:47:52 2010
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:47:52 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be movie stars...
In-Reply-To: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <80659e1a1002171147v634647c7p79728590c475a49d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jason,

I read your post and respectfully disagree. However, I must admit that
it is possible I don't completely understand your point. Are you
against Sonny appearing on the show "Meteorite Men" simply because he
has been arrested? Or is there another reason?

If you are indeed against any meteorite hunter appearing in a TV show
because of a past arrest - which BTW they paid for by serving time,
parole or paying a fine. Then you would also not like the fact that
some of my best friends and most influential people in the meteorite
community have also been arrested and appeared on TV shows. I don't
want to name them but there are many and we all know it.

I'm quite sure that the networks, nor Steve and Geoff condone
trespassing but instead see past it to the real value of the human
being and also the value of their expertise. Sonny, is the real thing!

If everyone agreed with you I would have never seen Bob Haag on TV, 12
plus years ago and been inspired to become a meteorite hunter myself.

This is not a thread that is good for meteorites ( in my opinion ) so
I will say no more.

Just my two cents....

P.S. If I misunderstood your email then I will ask for forgiveness in advance


Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From clwaldeniii at comcast.net  Wed Feb 17 14:55:28 2010
From: clwaldeniii at comcast.net (Chauncey Walden)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:55:28 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Degrees in Meteoritics
Message-ID: <4B7C49B0.2040903@comcast.net>

Erik wrote:
> I was just going to major in Geology and go from there.? Any suggestions?
>    
The University of New Mexico has the Institute of Meteoritics and ties 
it in with some of their classes in the Department of Earth and 
Planetary Sciences.
http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/courses.html

Chauncey


From edeckert at triad.rr.com  Wed Feb 17 15:06:21 2010
From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:06:21 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be movie stars...
References: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01bd01cab00c$acf64fc0$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain>

Jason,

Unfortunately, I have never seen any of the "Meteorite Men" shows as it is 
not available through my cable subscription, so I cannot comment on the show 
itself.  But based on comments and reviews, it is a very successful and well 
produced show.  Kudos to Steve, Geoff and their Production Team!

As far as your email message is concerned, I have some questions for you. 
Did you get out on the wrong side of the bed this morning?  Or were you 
half-asleep when you wrote your email?

Exactly how is the "Meteorite Men" show "irresponsible," and how exactly 
does Sonny Clary fit into your attack on Steve and Geoff's show?

Please share.

Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jason Chadwick" <jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be movie stars...


> Hey,
>
> That is just great Steve Arnold of "meteorite men".  Did not Sonny Clary 
> get arrested last year in Georgia. Literally chased out of the state? 
> Your show is irresponsible.
>
> Jason Chadwick
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
> Database version: 6.14370
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ 





E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
Database version: 6.14370
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 15:15:58 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:15:58 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be movie stars...
In-Reply-To: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002171215v48614cd8tddbf5ddd1e190aac@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jason and List,

That Georgia judge is backwards hillbilly.  Sonny and Mike are two of
the nicest guys in the meteorite world and their "problem" in Georgia
had everything to do with redneck BS and nothing to do with Sonny or
Mike doing anything wrong intentionally.

No offense to Georgia collectors (Hi Noah!), but after hearing what
that judge said, I'd rather die than live in Georgia.  Remember -
Georgia still has an all-white town that runs out black people.

(cue the banjos)

Best regards,

MikeG


On 2/17/10, Jason Chadwick <jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hey,
>
> That is just great Steve Arnold of "meteorite men".  Did not Sonny Clary get
> arrested last year in Georgia. Literally chased out of the state?  Your show
> is irresponsible.
>
> Jason Chadwick
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 17 15:39:01 2010
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:39:01 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be movie stars...
In-Reply-To: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W130F28C62C919D2D9F5A8FD2480@phx.gbl>


Jason:

I suspect Sonny was chosen to appear on the show because of his vast knowledge and experience hunting dry lake beds in Nevada.? Just because he got arrested in Georgia does not change that.? I do not know if you have seen the show, but the purpose is to invite the most experienced and knowledgeable people to explain the techniques of meteorite hunting.? As to the Georgia judge, I do not know, but I do know this... things are just a little different in the South.

I hope you give the show a chance... watch it.

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:30:33 -0800
> From: jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be movie stars...
>
> Hey,
>
> That is just great Steve Arnold of "meteorite men". Did not Sonny Clary get arrested last year in Georgia. Literally chased out of the state? Your show is irresponsible.
>
> Jason Chadwick
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/

From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Feb 17 04:45:14 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 04:45:14 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be movie stars...
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002171215v48614cd8tddbf5ddd1e190aac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<e51421551002171215v48614cd8tddbf5ddd1e190aac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1benn55ngnlu06qtbu7djhlo8q4msv5i0k@4ax.com>

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:15:58 -0500, you wrote:

>That Georgia judge is backwards hillbilly.  

At the risk of starting another argument on the list, do you have anything to
back up that statement?  Such as the amount of education the judge had, such as
law degrees and such?  Because otherwise that sounds a hell of a lot like the
typical Northen bigotry/prejudice/sterotyping against the south.

>Georgia had everything to do with redneck 

>that judge said, I'd rather die than live in Georgia.  Remember -
>Georgia still has an all-white town that runs out black people.
>
>(cue the banjos)

Yep, that clears that up-- you are just a bigot.  (Oddly, I see that you live if
Florida, not the North.)  


From majbaermann at web.de  Wed Feb 17 17:18:30 2010
From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:18:30 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
Message-ID: <64F79D6DFF26421BA090664B7F3B02E9@thinkcentre>


Dear Zelimir,

thank you so much for your effort to answer the questions of a layman on
this field - very impressive indeed, I estimate that much.

I like the expression "biochemical space". And indeed, the question seems to 
be, what a kind of transformational space - if indeed - it is. The
 differentiation between "diversity" and "complexity" seems to be important
 too, as you've pointed out clearly. Perhaps we'll hear some additional
 opinions here on the list, would be great.

 And the smell? Well, let's pull out the cork ... ... ah ... good vintage 
...
 4.6 ...

 My best as ever,

 Matthias


> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
> To: "Matthias B?rmann" <majbaermann at web.de>
> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>
>
>
> Dear Matthias,
>
> Your questions are very pertinent. I'll try to reply the best I can,
> by trying to avoid confusion between "diversity" and "complexity".
>
> Let's try to simplify.
> Here is my modest understanding of the issue, bearing in mind I am by
> no means an expert in biology and its development, neither I am
> regarding the conditions in space that can provoke (or at least had
> provoked in Murchison) a high molecular diversity.
>
> Our spectra richness gives (experimental) evidence of intrinsic and
> compositional diversity in space, within and across chemical classes,
> which is an acknowledged feature of extraterrestrial chemistry (see
> e.g. J. R. Cronin et al., Geochim. Cosmochim. Acta 57 (1993), 4745
> Comparable but lesser diversity was also found in terrestrial organic
> matter. Ref.: N. Hertkorn et al., Anal. Chem. 80 (2008), 9808 ;
> Norbert Hertkorn, co-author of our paper, is expert, along with Phil
> Schmitt-Kopplin, of NOM's (Natural Organic Matter, thus "humic acids"
> & related, present in terrestrial aqueous systems ....)
>
> To answer more specifically your 6 questions (that are related), I'd say:
> No, the development of life does not depend (necessarily) on a kind of
> reduction of chemical diversity.
> In other words, life can develop (as it did on Earth) from a
> relatively small (reduced or not) number of initial molecules,
> provided some other parameters (than in space) act as driving force
> (presence of oxygen, water (under ambient conditions), ambient (= not
> extreme) temperature.....).
> But this does not imply that it can't develop from a large number of
> molecules as well.
> This does certainly not mean that such a life did not develop
> "somewhere in space" under different conditions.
> As mentioned J. R. Beda in his comments on our paper in "C&EN" (Feb 16, 
> 2010):
> "The challenge now is to fish out molecules that may have some
> important early biochemical role".
>
> Would life be linked to a process of picking up elements out of the
> construction kit and combine them ?
> I defy anyone to answer that question.
>
> Now regarding distinction between diversity and complexity, I don't
> imagine that the complexity of terrestrial biochemical "space" is
> necessarily a result of reduction of (initial) diversity.
> I believe this can also most probably occur if a high diversity is 
> maintained.
> In other words, should the high diversity of molecules (such as we
> found in Murchison) be also present on Earth at the time when the
> conditions were conductive to the expansion of life, this expansion
> would probably have occurred as readily as if that diversity was
> somewhat restricted (this is an hypothesis that I'd be glad if someone
> more expert than me could comment - but not necessarily confirm).
>
> To conclude, we give in our paper a little more detailed picture than
> what is summarized in one sentence of the abstract.
> The DIVERSITY of extraterrestrial organics was driven (but also
> possibly sometimes restricted) by "extreme" physical parameters such
> as "temperature", radiation, various alterations....leading to a
> selectivity of reaction pathways (entropy-driven continuous
> distribution of molecular compositions and structural characteristics
> of ABIOTIC syntheses).
> Such thermodynamic and kinetic constraints might deviate from
> terrestrial biogeochemistry, under our current mild conditions
> (oxygen, ambient temperature etc).
> In other words, these latter conditions could lead, from a restricted
> number of initial molecules (but not necessarily restricted!) to a
> high and EARTH-SPECIFIC COMPLEXITY, by inducing various favorable
> transformations.
>
> Just some thoughts from a non expert chemist. I encourage Phil
> Schmitt-Kopplin, who is reading us, to possibly add his own comments.
> I also stay flexible to any (constructive or destructive) remark from
> any of you.
>
> Matthias, I will forward you the full paper as attachment.
> Unfortunately, for the list, I have no link to provide. Those
> interested, feel fee to request a copy.
>
> Kind regards to all,
>
> Zelimir
>
> Oh, I almost forgot:
> YES, definitely Murchison smells (a quite strong smell, not really
> unpleasent, especially when the sample was sealed in some jar for
> years).
>
>
>
> Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> a ??crit? :
>
>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
>>
>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us about  your 
>> and your colleagues scientific work and giving us so the  feeling of 
>> being privileged enough to sit in the very first row.
>>
>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted focus of 
>> investigation leads directly to a highly diverse pattern.
>>
>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular complexity, 
>> which provides hints on heteroatoms chronological assembly, suggests 
>> that the extraterrestrial chemodiversity is high compared to  terrestrial 
>> relevant biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical  space." The high 
>> level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the  less diverse 
>> terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that  development of life 
>> could depend on a kind of reduction of  diversity? Caused by selection (= 
>> "targetting"?)? Life would be  essentially linked to a process of picking 
>> up elements out of the  construction kit? But than it begins to play by 
>> combining them?  Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make a strong 
>> distinction  between diversity and complexity? Could that mean that the 
>> complexity of terrestrial biological and biochemical "space" is a  result 
>> of reduction of (initial) diversity?
>>
>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural scientist ...
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Matthias B.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>
>>
>>
>> Darren, list,
>>
>>
>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the research we (a
>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several months on
>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its extraterrestrial
>> organic contents.
>>
>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified the list of
>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and "organic
>> contant".
>>
>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time (right in
>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just anounced
>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>>
>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>>
>> Abstract can be read here:
>>
>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>>
>>
>> More discussions are available through various media press comments
>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>>
>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules we had found
>> originated from the fact that the screening was not targeted.
>>
>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands of
>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something that seems to
>> provoke debate in the media.
>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on meteorites in
>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in particular, that
>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>>
>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that Philippe
>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian in 2008.
>>
>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where all the
>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his discern and
>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his expertise
>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial expectations.
>>
>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more" other
>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming continuously;
>> thay will be published in the months to come.
>>
>> My best wishes,
>>
>> Zelimir
>>
>>
>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> a ??crit? :
>>
>>> Darren and List
>>>
>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on how scientist   have 
>>> identified over 14,000 compounds and counting. While we are on  the 
>>> topic of Murchison meteorite, I came across an article on line  that 
>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the Murchison  as quoted 
>>> from the article as follows....
>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar system,"  says 
>>> Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are older than   the 
>>> solar system."
>>> But just how old?
>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the Murchison meteorite, 
>>> which is well-known for the
>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long the grains  spent 
>>> in interstellar space before winding up
>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages, reported in a 
>>> recent paper of the Astrophysical Journal,
>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system formed after a 
>>> smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>>>
>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate that the majority 
>>> of grains spent between 3
>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before falling into our 
>>> molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>>> years ago."
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>>>
>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the age of  presolar 
>>> SiC grains found in Murchison meteorite.
>>>
>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>>>
>>> Enjoy
>>> Shawn Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren Garrison 
>>> cynapse at charter.net
>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>>>
>>>
>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - 
>>> February 15, 2009
>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 
>>> 2009
>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>>>
>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>>>
>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic Compounds
>>>
>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>>>
>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia, hasn't quit 
>>> giving up its
>>> secrets.
>>>
>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied space rocks because 
>>> many
>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as it fell through 
>>> the
>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the carbonaceous chondrite 
>>> was
>>> recovered.
>>>
>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to scientists as they 
>>> were
>>> formed from material that existed in the solar system's   planet-forming 
>>> disk of
>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules holding onto  a 4 
>>> billion
>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>>>
>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us another clue as to 
>>> the
>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the Earth had formed. 
>>> In
>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated from material 
>>> older than our
>>> sun.
>>>
>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and saw the   complexity 
>>> I was so
>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the Institute for 
>>> Ecological
>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>>>
>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try to  understand 
>>> them you
>>> are looking back in time."
>>>
>>> This new research made use of high resolution spectroscopic tools  to 
>>> identify
>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite has provided 
>>> scientists
>>> with vast amounts of information about specific carbon-based  organics 
>>> before,
>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words, the   researchers 
>>> weren't
>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a broad analysis   for 
>>> all the
>>> chemicals it might contain.
>>>
>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that the primordial 
>>> solar system
>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than present-day Earth.
>>>
>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70 amino acids were
>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of the iceberg;   the 
>>> meteorite
>>> probably contains millions of different organic compounds. More detailed
>>> analysis will now be carried out.
>>>
>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity of organic 
>>> chemicals that
>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will help us   understand 
>>> how life
>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of carbonaceous 
>>> chondrite
>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar system,   collecting 
>>> all the
>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does that mean  diverse 
>>> organic
>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star systems?
>>>
>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets, asteroids and 
>>> other
>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of life when 
>>> everywhere else
>>> seems to be lifeless?
>>>
>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning to "seed" young 
>>> star
>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea. The  conditions 
>>> for life
>>> may not be that rare after all.
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at 
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> 



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Wed Feb 17 17:53:17 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:53:17 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be movie stars...
In-Reply-To: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C735D.3050004@meteoritesusa.com>

I've been trying to respond to this all day but my email was down.

I don't know why people feel it necessary to slam anyone on this list, 
least of all some of the best meteorite hunters in the world, and good 
people too. I'm not sure you understand the whole of the story, nor do I 
believe your comment was fair at all to Sonny, Steve, Geoff, or the 
Discovery network, or the Science Channel crew.  They've all worked very 
hard to bring meteorites more public awareness and to educate the world 
about rocks from space and how much can be learned from them. I couldn't 
say it better and echo Rob and Ruben's sentiments on the matter.

Great work Sonny! Steve! Geoff, and thank you Discovery Science Channel 
for creating such a great show!

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


From meteorhntr at aol.com  Wed Feb 17 18:30:49 2010
From: meteorhntr at aol.com (meteorhntr at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:30:49 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dukes of Hazzard
Message-ID: <1050538972-1266449451-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2136085657-@bda353.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Everyone knows that Bo and Luke Duke got arrested by Sheriff Roscoe P. Coaltrain in Hazzard County, Georgia.  But we all know they were just a couple of "good ol' boys not a meanin' no harm."


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel


From John at Cabassi.net  Wed Feb 17 19:01:46 2010
From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:01:46 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dukes of Hazzard
In-Reply-To: <1050538972-1266449451-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2136085657-@bda353.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <000401cab02d$916e6af0$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2>


Ahh the met-list, SNAP CRACKLE AND POP Hmmm reminds me of a cereal. Oh
the doc called me today regarding the last list checkup despite slightly
above normal blood pressure all is well.

cheers John



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
meteorhntr at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:31 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dukes of Hazzard


Everyone knows that Bo and Luke Duke got arrested by Sheriff Roscoe P.
Coaltrain in Hazzard County, Georgia.  But we all know they were just a
couple of "good ol' boys not a meanin' no harm."


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From mlblood at cox.net  Wed Feb 17 19:19:14 2010
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:19:14 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be movie stars...
In-Reply-To: <10449.87711.qm@web114017.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C7A1C782.B924%mlblood@cox.net>

Boo, Hiss 

THE METEORITE MEN is the greatest promotion of meteoritics
Ever. Geoff & Steve make a great combo and those that don't get
It have eyes, but do not see and ears, but do not hear.
        Michael


On 2/17/10 10:30 AM, "Jason Chadwick" <jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hey,
> 
> That is just great Steve Arnold of "meteorite men".  Did not Sonny Clary get
> arrested last year in Georgia. Literally chased out of the state?  Your show
> is irresponsible.
> 
> Jason Chadwick
> 
> 
>       
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Feb 17 19:18:55 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:18:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - February 17, 2010
Message-ID: <201002180018.o1I0Ita0006078@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
February 17, 2010

o D?bris Flows on Mars 
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007033_1445

o Exhumed Layers Near the Nili Fossae
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_002176_2025

o Slope Streaks in Terra Sabaea
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001808_1875

o Eroding Layers in an Impact Crater
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001503_1645

o Layers in Olympus Mons Basal Scarp
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001432_2015

All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.



From minador at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 19:25:07 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:25:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be movie stars...
In-Reply-To: <C7A1C782.B924%mlblood@cox.net>
References: <C7A1C782.B924%mlblood@cox.net>
Message-ID: <233594.52213.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I agree 100%? - Way to go Sonny, Geoff & Steve (and the scores of others who have worked hard on the show - which airs a new episode tonight...).? Sonny is a great?human being and an?ethical hunter.

Clear skies (now off to the Sky Bar to watch the next episode!!!!),
Mark B.
Vail, AZ



----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Blood <mlblood at cox.net>
To: Jason Chadwick <jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com>; Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 5:19:14 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be movie stars...

Boo, Hiss 

THE METEORITE MEN is the greatest promotion of meteoritics
Ever. Geoff & Steve make a great combo and those that don't get
It have eyes, but do not see and ears, but do not hear.
? ? ? ? Michael


On 2/17/10 10:30 AM, "Jason Chadwick" <jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hey,
> 
> That is just great Steve Arnold of "meteorite men".? Did not Sonny Clary get
> arrested last year in Georgia. Literally chased out of the state?? Your show
> is irresponsible.
> 
> Jason Chadwick
> 
> 
>? ? ? 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Feb 17 19:27:30 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:27:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Did Human DNA Hitch a Ride to Mars?
Message-ID: <201002180027.o1I0RVbD008523@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35428496/ns/technology_and_science-space  

Did human DNA hitch a ride to Mars?

Scientists creating instrument that could search soil, ice samples
from Mars

By Michael Schirber
space.com
February 16, 2010

The iguanas of the Galapagos Islands have evolved many unique
characteristics due to their isolation from mainland iguanas. Because
they can't swim long distances, biologists believe that the first
Galapagos iguanas arrived on natural rafts made from vegetation.

The same thing may have happened across the ocean of space. Some
researchers speculate that life on Mars - if there is any - may be 
composed of "island species" that were carried away from Earth on 
interplanetary meteorites.

Or perhaps both planets were seeded by life from an even more distant 
"mainland."

"Earth may not be the center of the DNA-based universe," says Gary
Ruvkun, professor of genetics at Harvard Medical School and
Massachusetts General Hospital.

The idea isn't too crazy. We already have evidence that some
biologically important molecules, such as the ingredients for amino
acids, are delivered by comets. And we know that around 3.5 billion
years ago, meteorite impacts often kicked up rocks from the Earth's
surface and launched them into space.

Microbes and/or bio-molecules may have hitched a ride on one these
cosmic "rafts."

To test this theory ??? called panspermia - Ruvkun and his 
colleagues have started a project called the Search for Extraterrestrial 
Genomes (SETG, as a play on SETI). They are putting together an instrument 
that could go to Mars and search soil or ice samples for the presence of 
DNA. If the device finds any, it could then analyze the genetic code to 
see if the "Martians" are related to us.

A SETG prototype will have its first field test this year with funding
from NASA's Astrobiology Science and Technology Instrument Development
program.

DNA detection

Some argue that it is too soon to be thinking about DNA on Mars.

"If there were other signs of life, more specifically biomass, I would
applaud DNA analysis," says Norman Pace of the University of Colorado,
Boulder. "Without even trace target biomass, talking about DNA sequences
seems premature to me."

But Ruvkun argues that his team's technique can detect a single DNA
molecule in a sample, whereas other tests for biology - such as
identifying chemical constituents with mass spectrometry - are not
nearly as sensitive.

"It's very hard to detect a single molecule with chemical analysis,"
concurs Harry Noller from the University of California at Santa Cruz.
"But you can uniquely amplify DNA," so that its signal clearly stands out. 

Immutable DNA

In order to amplify small traces of potential alien DNA, Ruvkun
and his collaborators have looked for a stretch of DNA that would likely
be conserved in both Martians and Earthlings.

They believe this common thread should be in the 16S ribosomal RNA gene,
which is vital to the protein-making process in cells. This gene has
regions of its sequence that have barely changed over billions of years
of evolution.

In fact, short segments in the 16S ribosomal RNA sequence are exactly
identical in more than 100,000 species that have so far had their
ribosome genes analyzed.

"There's no way to have a mutation here and live to tell about it," says
Noller, who is not part of the SETG team.

As a consequence, any Martians that share our genetic heritage will
presumably carry the 16S ribosomal RNA gene with the same conserved
pieces that all of us Earthlings have.

A primer for life

The proposed strategy is for the SETG instrument to receive a Martian
sample and add small extracts from the 16S ribosomal RNA gene as
"primers" for DNA replication. If the sample contains DNA and if some
part of that DNA's genetic code matches the primer's, then a suite of
chemical reactions will produce a million or so copies of the sample's DNA.

The amplified DNA can be detected with special markers and part of its
code can be sequenced in order to identify what sort of life-form is the
owner of this DNA.  

If the sample were contaminated by Earthling DNA, then the SETG
researchers should be able to recognize signatures in the sequenced code
that will pinpoint whether the contamination comes from a human or a
bacteria or something else familiar to us.

But if nothing on Earth matches the observed sequence, Ruvkun and his
colleagues will claim to have found our long-lost Martian cousins.

Ruvkun and his colleagues have built a prototype of their DNA analyzer
and are in the midst of calibrating it. The team will travel to
Argentina's Copahue Volcano, which is considered to be one of the most
Mars-like environments on Earth. There, they will test whether the
prototype can sequence the DNA of some of the hearty microbes that live
in the acidic runoff from the volcano.



From mlblood at cox.net  Wed Feb 17 19:30:01 2010
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:30:01 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Degrees in Meteoritics
In-Reply-To: <c3cf.1a933671.38ad838e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C7A1CA09.B92B%mlblood@cox.net>

Hi Steve and all,
        With few exceptions, it matters little what one major is in when
Getting a BA. In fact, most graduate schools prefer to take students
With a different BA than the focus of the Masters or PhD program
To which they are applying. They openly state they prefer to see
Students from broad backgrounds in their programs.
        Of course, if one wants to be a medical doctor, an engineer or
Seeks a 2 year professional AA, then, of course, one's major matters
Far more. 
        Therefore, I encourage you to feel no hesitation at all  in
recommending, or at least informing students of colleges that offer
opportunities in the field of meteoritics.
        This is an example of one of the many ways METEORITE MEN
Are a service to the meteorite community.
        Best wishes, Michael



On 2/17/10 9:38 AM, "Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne" <MeteorHntr at aol.com> wrote:

> On a side note, is there much demand  for new meteorite scientists out
> there?  If all the slots are filled, or  someone isn't likely to be able to
> get 
> a job once they would get a degree, I  might want to caution kids not to get
> too serious about this field for a career  without seriously evaluating the
> options first.  




From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Wed Feb 17 19:53:48 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:53:48 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Baby Powder Meteorite
Message-ID: <4B7C8F9C.2040408@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi All,

Just sliced a nice UNWA meteorite which smells very strongly of baby 
powder. Is this terrestrial contamination or could it be natural?

Anyone ever smell a meteorite like this?

Regards,
Eric


From webbth1 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 20:46:48 2010
From: webbth1 at yahoo.com (Thomas Webb)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:46:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re:  Trespassers will be movie stars...
Message-ID: <160583.49400.qm@web56508.mail.re3.yahoo.com>



--- On Wed, 2/17/10, Thomas Webb <webbth1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Thomas Webb <webbth1 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be movie stars...
> To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>, meteorite-listac at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 8:41 PM
> Hello Mike,
> I believe Sonny is a good guy and an asset to the meteorite
> community.? Having said that, I object to your
> disparaging terminology, "backwards hillbilly" and "redneck"
> as well as "cue the banjos".
> I'm a hillbilly from North Carolina and proud of it.?
> If you must talk about the judge and others from the area do
> it off the list or if you must use offensive terms on the
> list, which is forbidden by list policy, at least use some
> that would not be directed to a certain region.?
> Perhaps you could just use that word which begins with a and
> ends with e, which seems to be universally understood and is
> not considered to be endemic to any specific area.
> Thanks,
> Thomas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trespassers will be
> movie stars...
> > To: "Jason Chadwick" <jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 3:15 PM
> > Hi Jason and List,
> > 
> > That Georgia judge is backwards hillbilly.? Sonny
> and
> > Mike are two of
> > the nicest guys in the meteorite world and their
> "problem"
> > in Georgia
> > had everything to do with redneck BS and nothing to do
> with
> > Sonny or
> > Mike doing anything wrong intentionally.
> > 
> > No offense to Georgia collectors (Hi Noah!), but
> after
> > hearing what
> > that judge said, I'd rather die than live in
> Georgia.?
> > Remember -
> > Georgia still has an all-white town that runs out
> black
> > people.
> > 
> > (cue the banjos)
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
> > MikeG
> > 
> > 
> > On 2/17/10, Jason Chadwick <jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Hey,
> > >
> > > That is just great Steve Arnold of "meteorite
> > men".? Did not Sonny Clary get
> > > arrested last year in Georgia. Literally chased
> out of
> > the state?? Your show
> > > is irresponsible.
> > >
> > > Jason Chadwick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > Visit the Archives at
> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Mike Gilmer
> > http://www.galactic-stone.com
> > http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 


      



From Metorman46 at aol.com  Wed Feb 17 21:17:30 2010
From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:17:30 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] THE METEORITE MEN is the greatest promotion of
	meteoritics Ever.
Message-ID: <1cdf5.d2562db.38adfd3a@aol.com>

Hello Michael;
 
I highlighted your statement from a previous post because i think it says  
all that can simply be said about their great program.It energizes me to 
watch  Geoff and Steve do the thing that most of the worlds meteorite 
collectors would  like to be doing.But,we are too busy with our work- a- world lives 
to ever do  much of that kind of activity.It sure is pleasant to sit in an 
easy chair,warm  or cool and enjoy seeing it done while educating the world 
community about the  joy of the hunt and even profitable sometimes.There 
probably will be a lot of  new interest in meteorites and collecting them.(Get 
ready dealers and collectors  that sell specimens).It"s a coming!
 
Thanks to all for the great posts;Herman Archer IMCA #  2770


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Wed Feb 17 22:07:53 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:07:53 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] THE METEORITE MEN is the greatest promotion
 of	meteoritics Ever.
In-Reply-To: <1cdf5.d2562db.38adfd3a@aol.com>
References: <1cdf5.d2562db.38adfd3a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4B7CAF09.7090500@meteoritesusa.com>

"...THE METEORITE MEN is the greatest promotion of meteoritics Ever..."

Aside from the legends and pioneers, Nininger, Norton, and Haag, I 
second that! The Meteorite Men show is perhaps the single biggest 
vehicle for the science and education of meteoritics to reach the masses.

What better way than to combine science, adventure and treasure hunting 
all in one exciting and fun cohesive show to promote the love and 
enjoyment of meteorites to the world?!

Can't wait for the DVD box set of season 1 of the Meteorite Men 
(including the pilot and behind the scenes interviews and featurettes 
perhaps? Maybe some funny bloopers and outtakes too?). ;)

It will hold a place of honor in my library right next to O Richard 
Norton's "Rocks From Space" and the "Encyclopedia of Meteorites".

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA

On 2/17/2010 6:17 PM, Metorman46 at aol.com wrote:
> Hello Michael;
>
> I highlighted your statement from a previous post because i think it says
> all that can simply be said about their great program.It energizes me to
> watch  Geoff and Steve do the thing that most of the worlds meteorite
> collectors would  like to be doing.But,we are too busy with our work- a- world lives
> to ever do  much of that kind of activity.It sure is pleasant to sit in an
> easy chair,warm  or cool and enjoy seeing it done while educating the world
> community about the  joy of the hunt and even profitable sometimes.There
> probably will be a lot of  new interest in meteorites and collecting them.(Get
> ready dealers and collectors  that sell specimens).It"s a coming!
>
> Thanks to all for the great posts;Herman Archer IMCA #  2770
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 22:11:37 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:11:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values come
	from?
Message-ID: <e51421551002171911w110cb30bn70c24798b03c4e54@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

Is it just me, or do the dollar values for some of the meteorites
shown on Meteorite Men seem a little inflated?  This is not a
criticism, but just a straight question.  As a collector and part-time
dealer, the prices given for some of these specimens seems a bit on
the optimistic side.

>From a dealer's perspective,  if the public thinks a meteorite is
worth more than it actually is, the dealer charge more for them.

>From a hunter's perspective, if the public thinks a meteorite is worth
more than it actually is, they can have unrealistic expectations for
what their rocks are worth.

Steve has spoken about this on the List previously, because landowners
will have unrealistic expectations of what their specimens are worth -
and this gives hunters fits who are trying to buy specimens or cut
deals with landowners.

So, where exactly are these dollar values coming from?  Who is setting
them and putting them on the screen during the final edit?

Best regards and happy hunting,

MikeG


On 2/17/10, Metorman46 at aol.com <Metorman46 at aol.com> wrote:
> Hello Michael;
>
> I highlighted your statement from a previous post because i think it says
> all that can simply be said about their great program.It energizes me to
> watch  Geoff and Steve do the thing that most of the worlds meteorite
> collectors would  like to be doing.But,we are too busy with our work- a-
> world lives
> to ever do  much of that kind of activity.It sure is pleasant to sit in an
> easy chair,warm  or cool and enjoy seeing it done while educating the world
> community about the  joy of the hunt and even profitable sometimes.There
> probably will be a lot of  new interest in meteorites and collecting
> them.(Get
> ready dealers and collectors  that sell specimens).It"s a coming!
>
> Thanks to all for the great posts;Herman Archer IMCA #  2770
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From energylightandlove at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 22:30:28 2010
From: energylightandlove at yahoo.com (power ofunity)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:30:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] See a Parent Body - Get Set for a Possible Glimpse
	of an Asteroid (Vesta)
In-Reply-To: <201002170123.o1H1NMIJ012297@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <201002170123.o1H1NMIJ012297@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <547189.77080.qm@web59008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Just a reminder...clear skies in Northern California and fantastic viewing of Vesta tonight.

thank you to Ron Baalke for the inside reporting.


----- Original Message ----
From: Ron Baalke <baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
To: Meteorite Mailing List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tue, February 16, 2010 5:23:22 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Get Set for a Possible Glimpse of an Asteroid (Vesta)


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-051? 

Get Set for a Possible Glimpse of an Asteroid
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
February 16, 2010

The most prominent asteroid in the sky is currently yours for the
perusing with binoculars -- and perhaps even the naked eye.

Tomorrow night, Wednesday, Feb. 17, Vesta, the second most massive
object in the asteroid belt, reaches what astronomers like to call
"opposition." An asteroid (or planet or comet) is said to be "in
opposition" when it is opposite to the sun as seen from Earth. In other
words, if you were to stand outside with the sun directly above you at
high noon, Vesta would be directly below your feet some 211,980,000
kilometers (131,700,000 miles) away. With Vesta at opposition, the
asteroid is at its closest point to Earth in its orbit.

Wednesday night, the asteroid is expected to shine at magnitude 6.1.
That brightness should make it visible to interested parties brandishing
telescopes or binoculars, and even those blessed with excellent vision
and little or no light pollution or clouds in their vicinity. Vesta will
be visible in the eastern sky in the constellation Leo.

What makes this space rock so prominent these days? Along with its
relative proximity at this point, a full half of the asteroid is being
bathed by sunlight when seen from Earth, making it appear brighter.
Another attribute working in the observer's favor is that Vesta has a
unique surface material that is not as dark as most main belt asteroids
- allowing more of the sun's rays to reflect off its surface.

If spotting Vesta in the night sky has whetted your appetite for
mega-rocks, all we can say is, stay tuned. NASA's Dawn spacecraft,
currently motoring its way through the asteroid belt, will begin its
exploration of Vesta in the summer of 2011.

For more information about Dawn, visit: http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/ .

DC Agle 818-393-9011
agle at jpl.nasa.gov

2010-051

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      


From meteorhntr at aol.com  Wed Feb 17 22:40:04 2010
From: meteorhntr at aol.com (meteorhntr at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:40:04 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values
	comefrom?
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002171911w110cb30bn70c24798b03c4e54@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e51421551002171911w110cb30bn70c24798b03c4e54@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1896902894-1266464414-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2135908392-@bda353.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Hi MikeG and List,

In this episode, Sony's CM1 is one of only two found outside of Antarctica. The other one, as I understand, sold out quickly at several thousand dollars per gram. Sony has placed a value of $1,000 per gram thus the estimation of his 699g rock at $700,000 is probably reasonable for a US find.

I was quoted as saying these ordinary chondrite pieces were probably worth $1 per gram but I will probably list them on eBay for $5 per gram (for the 2-10g size pieces) and see how they do.

Steve Arnold

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

-----Original Message-----
From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:11:37 
To: <Metorman46 at aol.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values come
	from?

Hi Folks,

Is it just me, or do the dollar values for some of the meteorites
shown on Meteorite Men seem a little inflated?  This is not a
criticism, but just a straight question.  As a collector and part-time
dealer, the prices given for some of these specimens seems a bit on
the optimistic side.

>From a dealer's perspective,  if the public thinks a meteorite is
worth more than it actually is, the dealer charge more for them.

>From a hunter's perspective, if the public thinks a meteorite is worth
more than it actually is, they can have unrealistic expectations for
what their rocks are worth.

Steve has spoken about this on the List previously, because landowners
will have unrealistic expectations of what their specimens are worth -
and this gives hunters fits who are trying to buy specimens or cut
deals with landowners.

So, where exactly are these dollar values coming from?  Who is setting
them and putting them on the screen during the final edit?

Best regards and happy hunting,

MikeG


On 2/17/10, Metorman46 at aol.com <Metorman46 at aol.com> wrote:
> Hello Michael;
>
> I highlighted your statement from a previous post because i think it says
> all that can simply be said about their great program.It energizes me to
> watch  Geoff and Steve do the thing that most of the worlds meteorite
> collectors would  like to be doing.But,we are too busy with our work- a-
> world lives
> to ever do  much of that kind of activity.It sure is pleasant to sit in an
> easy chair,warm  or cool and enjoy seeing it done while educating the world
> community about the  joy of the hunt and even profitable sometimes.There
> probably will be a lot of  new interest in meteorites and collecting
> them.(Get
> ready dealers and collectors  that sell specimens).It"s a coming!
>
> Thanks to all for the great posts;Herman Archer IMCA #  2770
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From carothersdl at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 23:14:25 2010
From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:14:25 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
References: <20100217123804.RB1KI.743571.root@web04-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <5FFA36B7663342A2B225D275AAE24283@your291etg47cr>

Wow!!! Everyone's getting high snorting Murchison.  Before you know it, the 
Feds will make it a crime.

Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
To: "Gary Fujihara" <fujmon at mac.com>; "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" 
<meteoritemike at gmail.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Greg Redfern" 
<gredfern at earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....


> Hi All,
>
> Really excited by all this Murchison talk and new science....by some 
> strange luck I 'invested' in a 50g lump before Tucson that should arrive 
> in the post (fingers crossed) within the week...can't wait for a sniff!
>
> Graham E, UK
>
>
> ---- Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Folks!
>>
>> So it's true about the aroma of Murchison?  I wish I had a piece big
>> enough to smell without actually inhaling it.
>>
>> If I try to sniff my current Murchison, it will fly up my nose. LOL
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/16/10, Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com> wrote:
>> > Ha ha!  I concur, and must confess that I too love the smell of
>> > Murchison in the morning.
>> >
>> > Sent from Gary's iPhone
>> >
>> > On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Greg Redfern <gredfern at earthlink.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I
>> >> LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine
>> >> cognac.
>> >>
>> >> This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Greg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
>> >>> Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
>> >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>> >>>
>> >>> I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
>> >>> Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
>> >>> When information comes out like this, it always adds something even
>> >>> more special to it.
>> >>>
>> >>> Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently
>> >>> have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good
>> >>> prices on ebay:
>> >>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
>> >>>
>> >>> Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to
>> >>> show that the study of this is ongoing.
>> >>>
>> >>> Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
>> >>>
>> >>> Greg Catterton
>> >>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>> >>> IMCA member 4682
>> >>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>> >>>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
>> >>>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
>> >>>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
>> >>>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
>> >>>> first row.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
>> >>>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
>> >>>> pattern.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
>> >>>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
>> >>>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
>> >>>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
>> >>>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
>> >>>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
>> >>>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
>> >>>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
>> >>>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
>> >>>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
>> >>>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
>> >>>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
>> >>>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
>> >>>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
>> >>>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
>> >>>> diversity?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
>> >>>> scientist ...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best regards,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Matthias B.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>> >>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
>> >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Darren, list,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
>> >>>> research we (a
>> >>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
>> >>>> months on
>> >>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
>> >>>> extraterrestrial
>> >>>> organic contents.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
>> >>>> the list of
>> >>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
>> >>>> "organic
>> >>>> contant".
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
>> >>>> (right in
>> >>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
>> >>>> anounced
>> >>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Abstract can be read here:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> More discussions are available through various media press
>> >>>> comments
>> >>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
>> >>>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>> >>>>
>> >>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
>> >>>> we had found
>> >>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
>> >>>> targeted.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
>> >>>> that seems to
>> >>>> provoke debate in the media.
>> >>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
>> >>>> meteorites in
>> >>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
>> >>>> particular, that
>> >>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
>> >>>> Philippe
>> >>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
>> >>>> in 2008.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
>> >>>> all the
>> >>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
>> >>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
>> >>>> discern and
>> >>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
>> >>>> expertise
>> >>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
>> >>>> expectations.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
>> >>>> other
>> >>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
>> >>>> continuously;
>> >>>> thay will be published in the months to come.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> My best wishes,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Zelimir
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
>> >>>> a ??crit? :
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Darren and List
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
>> >>>> how scientist  have identified over 14,000 compounds
>> >>>> and counting. While we are on  the topic of Murchison
>> >>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line  that
>> >>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
>> >>>> Murchison  as quoted from the article as follows....
>> >>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
>> >>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>> >>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
>> >>>> older than  the solar system."
>> >>>>> But just how old?
>> >>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
>> >>>> Murchison  meteorite, which is well-known for the
>> >>>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long
>> >>>> the grains spent  in interstellar space before winding
>> >>>> up
>> >>>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
>> >>>> reported in a  recent paper of the Astrophysical
>> >>>> Journal,
>> >>>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
>> >>>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>> >>>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
>> >>>> that the  majority of grains spent between 3
>> >>>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before
>> >>>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>> >>>>> years ago."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>> >>>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
>> >>>> age of presolar  SiC grains found in Murchison
>> >>>> meteorite.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Enjoy
>> >>>>> Shawn Alan
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
>> >>>> Garrison  cynapse at charter.net
>> >>>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
>> >>>> Meteorite Hunt -  February 15, 2009
>> >>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
>> >>>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
>> >>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
>> >>>> author ]
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
>> >>>> Compounds
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
>> >>>> hasn't quit  giving up its
>> >>>>> secrets.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
>> >>>> space rocks because many
>> >>>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
>> >>>> it fell through the
>> >>>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
>> >>>> carbonaceous chondrite was
>> >>>>> recovered.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
>> >>>> scientists as they were
>> >>>>> formed from material that existed in the solar
>> >>>> system's  planet-forming disk of
>> >>>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
>> >>>> holding onto  a 4 billion
>> >>>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
>> >>>> another clue as to the
>> >>>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
>> >>>> Earth had formed. In
>> >>>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
>> >>>> from material  older than our
>> >>>>> sun.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
>> >>>> saw the  complexity I was so
>> >>>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
>> >>>> Institute for Ecological
>> >>>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
>> >>>> to understand them you
>> >>>>> are looking back in time."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> This new research made use of high resolution
>> >>>> spectroscopic tools to identify
>> >>>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
>> >>>> has provided scientists
>> >>>>> with vast amounts of information about specific
>> >>>> carbon-based organics before,
>> >>>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
>> >>>> the  researchers weren't
>> >>>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
>> >>>> broad analysis  for all the
>> >>>>> chemicals it might contain.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
>> >>>> the primordial  solar system
>> >>>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than
>> >>>> present-day Earth.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
>> >>>> amino acids were
>> >>>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
>> >>>> the iceberg;  the meteorite
>> >>>>> probably contains millions of different organic
>> >>>> compounds. More detailed
>> >>>>> analysis will now be carried out.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity
>> >>>> of organic chemicals that
>> >>>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will
>> >>>> help us  understand how life
>> >>>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
>> >>>> carbonaceous chondrite
>> >>>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
>> >>>> system,  collecting all the
>> >>>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
>> >>>> that mean diverse organic
>> >>>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
>> >>>> systems?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
>> >>>> asteroids and other
>> >>>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
>> >>>> life when everywhere else
>> >>>>> seems to be lifeless?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
>> >>>> to "seed" young star
>> >>>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
>> >>>> The conditions for life
>> >>>>> may not be that rare after all.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Visit the Archives at
>> >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ______________________________________________
>> >>>> Visit the Archives at
>> >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ______________________________________________
>> >>>> Visit the Archives at
>> >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ______________________________________________
>> >>> Visit the Archives at
>> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ______________________________________________
>> >> Visit the Archives at
>> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > Visit the Archives at
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Mike Gilmer
>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 00:29:05 2010
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:29:05 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values
	comefrom?
In-Reply-To: <1896902894-1266464414-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2135908392-@bda353.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <e51421551002171911w110cb30bn70c24798b03c4e54@mail.gmail.com>
	<1896902894-1266464414-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2135908392-@bda353.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <93aaac891002172129u26a2a1e6i126868403eb036e5@mail.gmail.com>

Hell Mike, Steve, and List,
Right, but you're applying the price per gram that would apply to
small pieces in retail to a much larger stone.
A single gram may be worth a thousand dollars (in this case, it's
probably justified, given what comparable material is known to sell
for), but the simple fact of the matter is that it would take decades
to sell off 700 grams at that price in small pieces.  Ask any dealer
who's held a stable asking price for material for which they are the
only source.
As a complete stone, I estimate that the highest offer on it would
reach $60-70,000.  Don't get me wrong - it could sell for more,
but...it's wholesale.
Yes, it might be "worth" more in a sense, but I believe that the
general consensus here has always been that these rocks are "worth"
what people were willing to pay for them.  I haven't asked Sonny, but
based on what I know of the market, I doubt that he's gotten an offer
as high as 100k for it.  He might well get a better offer, but that
would make it one of the more costly meteorites to actually sell - in
the past decade.

So, no.  I think it's safe to say that $700,000 is not close to a
reasonable estimate.
Even if you assume $1000/g for smaller pieces, you're not taking
cutting losses into account, which would take it to at most $500k, or
thereabouts, and it would take so long to sell that simply stating a
price like that is rather deceptive.

There's a reason that the asking price for the 420kg Fukang main mass
is in the 2-3 million dollar range (about $5-6/g), as opposed to being
$16.8 million.  Fukang may be "worth" $40/g.  That doesn't mean that a
large piece is worth that much.

And the same principle applies across the board - a single acre of
land will run you more per acre than will an acre of land in a
hundred-acre parcel.  And if you buy ten cars from a dealer, they'll
probably give you something of a discount, whereas if you buy only
one...not so much.

I appreciate the optimistic quote from the market's perspective,
but...it's just not reasonable to say that the rock is worth that much
when it wouldn't fetch that on the market.

Jason




On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:40 PM,  <meteorhntr at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi MikeG and List,
>
> In this episode, Sony's CM1 is one of only two found outside of Antarctica. The other one, as I understand, sold out quickly at several thousand dollars per gram. Sony has placed a value of $1,000 per gram thus the estimation of his 699g rock at $700,000 is probably reasonable for a US find.
>
> I was quoted as saying these ordinary chondrite pieces were probably worth $1 per gram but I will probably list them on eBay for $5 per gram (for the 2-10g size pieces) and see how they do.
>
> Steve Arnold
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:11:37
> To: <Metorman46 at aol.com>
> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values come
> ? ? ? ?from?
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Is it just me, or do the dollar values for some of the meteorites
> shown on Meteorite Men seem a little inflated? ?This is not a
> criticism, but just a straight question. ?As a collector and part-time
> dealer, the prices given for some of these specimens seems a bit on
> the optimistic side.
>
> >From a dealer's perspective, ?if the public thinks a meteorite is
> worth more than it actually is, the dealer charge more for them.
>
> >From a hunter's perspective, if the public thinks a meteorite is worth
> more than it actually is, they can have unrealistic expectations for
> what their rocks are worth.
>
> Steve has spoken about this on the List previously, because landowners
> will have unrealistic expectations of what their specimens are worth -
> and this gives hunters fits who are trying to buy specimens or cut
> deals with landowners.
>
> So, where exactly are these dollar values coming from? ?Who is setting
> them and putting them on the screen during the final edit?
>
> Best regards and happy hunting,
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 2/17/10, Metorman46 at aol.com <Metorman46 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hello Michael;
>>
>> I highlighted your statement from a previous post because i think it says
>> all that can simply be said about their great program.It energizes me to
>> watch ?Geoff and Steve do the thing that most of the worlds meteorite
>> collectors would ?like to be doing.But,we are too busy with our work- a-
>> world lives
>> to ever do ?much of that kind of activity.It sure is pleasant to sit in an
>> easy chair,warm ?or cool and enjoy seeing it done while educating the world
>> community about the ?joy of the hunt and even profitable sometimes.There
>> probably will be a lot of ?new interest in meteorites and collecting
>> them.(Get
>> ready dealers and collectors ?that sell specimens).It"s a coming!
>>
>> Thanks to all for the great posts;Herman Archer IMCA # ?2770
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From beardownbob at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 00:43:20 2010
From: beardownbob at gmail.com (Bob Holmes)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:43:20 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Degrees in Meteoritics
In-Reply-To: <C7A1CA09.B92B%mlblood@cox.net>
References: <c3cf.1a933671.38ad838e@aol.com> <C7A1CA09.B92B%mlblood@cox.net>
Message-ID: <2bc48ad01002172143o5ea9f03yb9a023f4fb36a223@mail.gmail.com>

(Posted for Dave Mouat)



Please pass this on for me.

Michael Blood is dead wrong on this.  In the physical sciences
(meteoritics, geology, physics, etc.), having a strong background in
mathematics, physics, and chemistry is absolutely essential.  If you
have a BA in English (with little or no coursework in those fields),
you would have to be one incredibly sharp cookie to be considered for
a graduate program in the physical sciences.  You would be taking
graduate courses in geochemistry, geophysics and the like with no
background in the basics.  In fact, most graduate courses have
prerequisites (read "undergrad courses in related fields").

My two cents worth

Dave (current grad student advisor; former Coordinator, Arid Lands
Resource Sciences PhD Program, UofAZ

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Michael Blood <mlblood at cox.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve and all,
> ? ? ? ?With few exceptions, it matters little what one major is in when
> Getting a BA. In fact, most graduate schools prefer to take students
> With a different BA than the focus of the Masters or PhD program
> To which they are applying. They openly state they prefer to see
> Students from broad backgrounds in their programs.
> ? ? ? ?Of course, if one wants to be a medical doctor, an engineer or
> Seeks a 2 year professional AA, then, of course, one's major matters
> Far more.
> ? ? ? ?Therefore, I encourage you to feel no hesitation at all ?in
> recommending, or at least informing students of colleges that offer
> opportunities in the field of meteoritics.
> ? ? ? ?This is an example of one of the many ways METEORITE MEN
> Are a service to the meteorite community.
> ? ? ? ?Best wishes, Michael
>
>
>
> On 2/17/10 9:38 AM, "Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne" <MeteorHntr at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On a side note, is there much demand ?for new meteorite scientists out
> > there? ?If all the slots are filled, or ?someone isn't likely to be able to
> > get
> > a job once they would get a degree, I ?might want to caution kids not to get
> > too serious about this field for a career ?without seriously evaluating the
> > options first.
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From meteorhntr at aol.com  Thu Feb 18 01:14:31 2010
From: meteorhntr at aol.com (meteorhntr at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:14:31 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar
	valuescomefrom?
In-Reply-To: <93aaac891002172129u26a2a1e6i126868403eb036e5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e51421551002171911w110cb30bn70c24798b03c4e54@mail.gmail.com><1896902894-1266464414-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2135908392-@bda353.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><93aaac891002172129u26a2a1e6i126868403eb036e5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <402328373-1266473672-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1240053059-@bda353.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Jason,

I agree getting $700,000 in green bills is a long shot, but if it can be traded for, say 14 items each in the $50,000 range, and those could be converted to green cash, is it wrong to say it is worth that.

Need I remind everyone that the finder of the Tagish Lake 800 gram rock (similar in size and composition as Sonny's) got $800,000 in Canadian money for his find.

Sonny is in the business, and as such, he really might realize $700k for his CM1 rock over time.  Could he take it to a pawn shop in vegas and get $700,000?  No, I would think not.  

But if someone else finds a CM1 here in the US and wants to sell theirs for $72/g ($50,000 / 699g) then cool.

Steve


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:29:05 
To: Meteorite-list<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values
	comefrom?

Hell Mike, Steve, and List,
Right, but you're applying the price per gram that would apply to
small pieces in retail to a much larger stone.
A single gram may be worth a thousand dollars (in this case, it's
probably justified, given what comparable material is known to sell
for), but the simple fact of the matter is that it would take decades
to sell off 700 grams at that price in small pieces.  Ask any dealer
who's held a stable asking price for material for which they are the
only source.
As a complete stone, I estimate that the highest offer on it would
reach $60-70,000.  Don't get me wrong - it could sell for more,
but...it's wholesale.
Yes, it might be "worth" more in a sense, but I believe that the
general consensus here has always been that these rocks are "worth"
what people were willing to pay for them.  I haven't asked Sonny, but
based on what I know of the market, I doubt that he's gotten an offer
as high as 100k for it.  He might well get a better offer, but that
would make it one of the more costly meteorites to actually sell - in
the past decade.

So, no.  I think it's safe to say that $700,000 is not close to a
reasonable estimate.
Even if you assume $1000/g for smaller pieces, you're not taking
cutting losses into account, which would take it to at most $500k, or
thereabouts, and it would take so long to sell that simply stating a
price like that is rather deceptive.

There's a reason that the asking price for the 420kg Fukang main mass
is in the 2-3 million dollar range (about $5-6/g), as opposed to being
$16.8 million.  Fukang may be "worth" $40/g.  That doesn't mean that a
large piece is worth that much.

And the same principle applies across the board - a single acre of
land will run you more per acre than will an acre of land in a
hundred-acre parcel.  And if you buy ten cars from a dealer, they'll
probably give you something of a discount, whereas if you buy only
one...not so much.

I appreciate the optimistic quote from the market's perspective,
but...it's just not reasonable to say that the rock is worth that much
when it wouldn't fetch that on the market.

Jason




On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:40 PM,  <meteorhntr at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi MikeG and List,
>
> In this episode, Sony's CM1 is one of only two found outside of Antarctica. The other one, as I understand, sold out quickly at several thousand dollars per gram. Sony has placed a value of $1,000 per gram thus the estimation of his 699g rock at $700,000 is probably reasonable for a US find.
>
> I was quoted as saying these ordinary chondrite pieces were probably worth $1 per gram but I will probably list them on eBay for $5 per gram (for the 2-10g size pieces) and see how they do.
>
> Steve Arnold
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:11:37
> To: <Metorman46 at aol.com>
> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values come
> ? ? ? ?from?
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Is it just me, or do the dollar values for some of the meteorites
> shown on Meteorite Men seem a little inflated? ?This is not a
> criticism, but just a straight question. ?As a collector and part-time
> dealer, the prices given for some of these specimens seems a bit on
> the optimistic side.
>
> >From a dealer's perspective, ?if the public thinks a meteorite is
> worth more than it actually is, the dealer charge more for them.
>
> >From a hunter's perspective, if the public thinks a meteorite is worth
> more than it actually is, they can have unrealistic expectations for
> what their rocks are worth.
>
> Steve has spoken about this on the List previously, because landowners
> will have unrealistic expectations of what their specimens are worth -
> and this gives hunters fits who are trying to buy specimens or cut
> deals with landowners.
>
> So, where exactly are these dollar values coming from? ?Who is setting
> them and putting them on the screen during the final edit?
>
> Best regards and happy hunting,
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 2/17/10, Metorman46 at aol.com <Metorman46 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hello Michael;
>>
>> I highlighted your statement from a previous post because i think it says
>> all that can simply be said about their great program.It energizes me to
>> watch ?Geoff and Steve do the thing that most of the worlds meteorite
>> collectors would ?like to be doing.But,we are too busy with our work- a-
>> world lives
>> to ever do ?much of that kind of activity.It sure is pleasant to sit in an
>> easy chair,warm ?or cool and enjoy seeing it done while educating the world
>> community about the ?joy of the hunt and even profitable sometimes.There
>> probably will be a lot of ?new interest in meteorites and collecting
>> them.(Get
>> ready dealers and collectors ?that sell specimens).It"s a coming!
>>
>> Thanks to all for the great posts;Herman Archer IMCA # ?2770
>>______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Feb 18 01:39:36 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:39:36 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] 80 years ago today, first KBO discovered
In-Reply-To: <547189.77080.qm@web59008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <201002170123.o1H1NMIJ012297@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
	<547189.77080.qm@web59008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <53opn55aaash39edm8n7lk8nna4unelp0v@4ax.com>

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2010/02/17/2204744.aspx


From info at meteorites.com.au  Thu Feb 18 01:45:08 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:45:08 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pictures of earth
In-Reply-To: <20100217110421.GW6YJ.733048.imail@fed1rmwml35>
References: <20100217110421.GW6YJ.733048.imail@fed1rmwml35>
Message-ID: <90C8EBE71B3045A5B3D56450451E3D9E@JeffPC>

These are easily my favourite Earth images!

However they are not by Astronaut Sunita Wiklliams... rather they are a 
famous composite of images known as "Blue Marble 2002". They were taken by 
the MODIS satellite through 2001 and later stitched together by NASA. More 
details and downloads are available here:

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/BlueMarble/BlueMarble_2002.php

If you have never taken a look through NASA's Earth Observatory website, I 
highly recommend it. There are many, many beautiful images of the Earth from 
Space.

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <cdtucson at cox.net>
To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 3:04 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pictures of earth


> Here are pictures of Earth from space. Enjoy
> Be sure and click on Full in lower right just below screen for full screen 
> images.
>
> http://www.slideshare.net/LawrenceCarson/astronaut-sunita-williams-pics-of-earth
>
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From paul at meteorite.com  Thu Feb 18 04:23:49 2010
From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:23:49 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone ever deal with Angie Jeffreys?
Message-ID: <4B7D0725.1090109@meteorite.com>

Dear List,

If anyone has ever dealt with a person by the name of Angie Jeffreys 
please contact me off list.

Thank you!

Paul



From mlblood at cox.net  Thu Feb 18 04:50:35 2010
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:50:35 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Degrees in Meteoritics
In-Reply-To: <2bc48ad01002172143o5ea9f03yb9a023f4fb36a223@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C7A24D6B.B967%mlblood@cox.net>

Hi Bob,
        Of course, you are right - when it comes to the "hard sciences."
I was unthinkingly referring to social/behavioral sciences - which,
since Meteoritics is a "hard science," was inappropriate or at least
Needed clarification.
        Best wishes, Michael


On 2/17/10 9:43 PM, "Bob Holmes" <beardownbob at gmail.com> wrote:

> (Posted for Dave Mouat)
> 
> 
> 
> Please pass this on for me.
> 
> Michael Blood is dead wrong on this.  In the physical sciences
> (meteoritics, geology, physics, etc.), having a strong background in
> mathematics, physics, and chemistry is absolutely essential.  If you
> have a BA in English (with little or no coursework in those fields),
> you would have to be one incredibly sharp cookie to be considered for
> a graduate program in the physical sciences.  You would be taking
> graduate courses in geochemistry, geophysics and the like with no
> background in the basics.  In fact, most graduate courses have
> prerequisites (read "undergrad courses in related fields").
> 
> My two cents worth
> 
> Dave (current grad student advisor; former Coordinator, Arid Lands
> Resource Sciences PhD Program, UofAZ
> 
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Michael Blood <mlblood at cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Steve and all,
>> ? ? ? ?With few exceptions, it matters little what one major is in when
>> Getting a BA. In fact, most graduate schools prefer to take students
>> With a different BA than the focus of the Masters or PhD program
>> To which they are applying. They openly state they prefer to see
>> Students from broad backgrounds in their programs.
>> ? ? ? ?Of course, if one wants to be a medical doctor, an engineer or
>> Seeks a 2 year professional AA, then, of course, one's major matters
>> Far more.
>> ? ? ? ?Therefore, I encourage you to feel no hesitation at all ?in
>> recommending, or at least informing students of colleges that offer
>> opportunities in the field of meteoritics.
>> ? ? ? ?This is an example of one of the many ways METEORITE MEN
>> Are a service to the meteorite community.
>> ? ? ? ?Best wishes, Michael
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/17/10 9:38 AM, "Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne" <MeteorHntr at aol.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On a side note, is there much demand ?for new meteorite scientists out
>>> there? ?If all the slots are filled, or ?someone isn't likely to be able to
>>> get
>>> a job once they would get a degree, I ?might want to caution kids not to get
>>> too serious about this field for a career ?without seriously evaluating the
>>> options first.
>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:26:26 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:26:26 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar
	valuescomefrom?
In-Reply-To: <402328373-1266473672-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1240053059-@bda353.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <e51421551002171911w110cb30bn70c24798b03c4e54@mail.gmail.com>
	<1896902894-1266464414-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2135908392-@bda353.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<93aaac891002172129u26a2a1e6i126868403eb036e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<402328373-1266473672-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1240053059-@bda353.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <e51421551002180426i2b80b723l60d22dae871d53a6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Steve, Jason and List,

I woke up this morning with the intention of writing a thoughtful
reply to Steve's last post, but Jason Utas already beat me to it.

I wasn't trying to be critical.  I like the show a lot and have not
missed an episode yet.  My wife and I make time to watch it every
Wednesday, and we enjoy it together.  I have fun pointing out the
people I "know" while watching the show.  It's funny because Dr.
Garvie recently invited me to come to ASU and smell their Murchison
samples and then I said to my wife - "Hey look, that's the guy who
said I can come smell his meteorites.", and she got a laugh out of
that.  It's fun a show and I hope it continues to be successful - not
just for Steve and Geoff (which kudos to them), but for the whole
meteorite community.

But (you knew there was a but!), I have some reservations about the
emphasis on dollar amounts.  The network and producers know that
nothing motivates the general public like money and that in this
economy, treasure hunting is very popular.  Let's face it, not
everyone shares our sometimes-irrational love of space rocks.  So I
can imagine the network/producers (or whoever calls these types of
shots) pushing for more emphasis on the profit angle of meteorite
hunting - to keep the lay public interested and watching the show.
That angle alone won't snag new viewers who are completely
uninterested in meteorites, but it may convince a few who are sitting
on the fence to watch.

Jason and Steve, you both raise good points.  Something is only worth
what someone will pay for it.  I once paid $100 for a 1mg speck of
Sylacauga.   That is an astounding $100,000.00 a gram.  But, I
seriously doubt I could sell a 1-gram fragment of Sylacauga for $100K.
 We may know the ways of the market and how collectors spend their
money, but the general lay public does not.  Those of us reading this
on the List, we know what Steve and Jason just said is true.  But I
can imagine a newbie watching the show and walking away with the idea
that he can find a half-million dollar rock (that is not a planetary
and weighs less than 1 kilo) in the desert and actually get that much
money for it at auction from Christies or some other big auction
house.   We know the realities of the market - some of the viewers
probably do not.  It would be nice to hear Steve or Geoff mention
something along the lines of what Steve just posted - that yes, the
specimen is "worth" that much, but it will probably never bring that
much from a sale.  The only way a million-dollar (or half-million
dollar) meteorite is going to bring in that much money is if the owner
insures it, then it burns up in a house fire, and the insurance
company cuts a big check for it.

As for Tagish Lake - only a government would pay that kind of money
for something.  Most private individuals couldn't afford to fork over
almost a million dollars for a 800-gram briquette.  In the US, the
finder of that 800 gram specimen would still be sitting on it and
hoping for a sale someday. (or an insured house fire)

Don't get me wrong.  I am not picking on Sonny's awesome specimen.
That is truly an amazing find and any meteorite hunter would cream
himself upon finding it.  The only thing better would be if Sonny
found the first US lunaite.  And my dollar amount gripe was
specifically targeted at Sonny's CM1.  Even those dry lake bed
weathered chondrites seem overpriced at $1.50 a gram or $2 a gram.  I
guess they are probably worth that much now because they have been on
TV, but I can buy prettier weathered ordinary-chondrites from NWA for
a 20 cents a gram.  A collector looking for a cool rock that was on TV
and was found by a famous meteorite hunter will pay extra for an OC
from Meteorite Men - but most collectors who buy weathered OC's are
also the types who look for bargains and will buy the stones that cost
.20 cents a gram and pass on the more expensive ones, regardless of
their connection to TV.   Heck, I just traded 100 grams of trinitite
for 4000 grams of weathered uNWA stones.  I won't say what my cost on
trinitite is, but I can say that the batch of uNWA I traded for is
prettier than the dry lake bed specimens (for the most part, I do have
some UGLY ones though) and my cost was less than $1 a gram -
substantially less.  (FWIW, the ugliest ones are going into a rock
tumbler)

I just don't want this emphasis on dollar values to come back and bite
us in the ass.  I can imagine Steve (or any hunter) going up to some
landowner and attempting to broker a deal to hunt on the land, and the
landowner will expect $10,000 for every 100-gram OC that is pulled out
of the dirt on his land - because there is an inflated sense of what
these stones are worth.  On the List, we know that a meteorite's
stated value often has an asterisk next to it, and I think it's
important that the general public knows that as well.

Best regards and happy huntings,

MikeG






On 2/18/10, meteorhntr at aol.com <meteorhntr at aol.com> wrote:
> Jason,
>
> I agree getting $700,000 in green bills is a long shot, but if it can be
> traded for, say 14 items each in the $50,000 range, and those could be
> converted to green cash, is it wrong to say it is worth that.
>
> Need I remind everyone that the finder of the Tagish Lake 800 gram rock
> (similar in size and composition as Sonny's) got $800,000 in Canadian money
> for his find.
>
> Sonny is in the business, and as such, he really might realize $700k for his
> CM1 rock over time.  Could he take it to a pawn shop in vegas and get
> $700,000?  No, I would think not.
>
> But if someone else finds a CM1 here in the US and wants to sell theirs for
> $72/g ($50,000 / 699g) then cool.
>
> Steve
>
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:29:05
> To: Meteorite-list<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values
> 	comefrom?
>
> Hell Mike, Steve, and List,
> Right, but you're applying the price per gram that would apply to
> small pieces in retail to a much larger stone.
> A single gram may be worth a thousand dollars (in this case, it's
> probably justified, given what comparable material is known to sell
> for), but the simple fact of the matter is that it would take decades
> to sell off 700 grams at that price in small pieces.  Ask any dealer
> who's held a stable asking price for material for which they are the
> only source.
> As a complete stone, I estimate that the highest offer on it would
> reach $60-70,000.  Don't get me wrong - it could sell for more,
> but...it's wholesale.
> Yes, it might be "worth" more in a sense, but I believe that the
> general consensus here has always been that these rocks are "worth"
> what people were willing to pay for them.  I haven't asked Sonny, but
> based on what I know of the market, I doubt that he's gotten an offer
> as high as 100k for it.  He might well get a better offer, but that
> would make it one of the more costly meteorites to actually sell - in
> the past decade.
>
> So, no.  I think it's safe to say that $700,000 is not close to a
> reasonable estimate.
> Even if you assume $1000/g for smaller pieces, you're not taking
> cutting losses into account, which would take it to at most $500k, or
> thereabouts, and it would take so long to sell that simply stating a
> price like that is rather deceptive.
>
> There's a reason that the asking price for the 420kg Fukang main mass
> is in the 2-3 million dollar range (about $5-6/g), as opposed to being
> $16.8 million.  Fukang may be "worth" $40/g.  That doesn't mean that a
> large piece is worth that much.
>
> And the same principle applies across the board - a single acre of
> land will run you more per acre than will an acre of land in a
> hundred-acre parcel.  And if you buy ten cars from a dealer, they'll
> probably give you something of a discount, whereas if you buy only
> one...not so much.
>
> I appreciate the optimistic quote from the market's perspective,
> but...it's just not reasonable to say that the rock is worth that much
> when it wouldn't fetch that on the market.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:40 PM,  <meteorhntr at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hi MikeG and List,
>>
>> In this episode, Sony's CM1 is one of only two found outside of
>> Antarctica. The other one, as I understand, sold out quickly at several
>> thousand dollars per gram. Sony has placed a value of $1,000 per gram thus
>> the estimation of his 699g rock at $700,000 is probably reasonable for a
>> US find.
>>
>> I was quoted as saying these ordinary chondrite pieces were probably worth
>> $1 per gram but I will probably list them on eBay for $5 per gram (for the
>> 2-10g size pieces) and see how they do.
>>
>> Steve Arnold
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:11:37
>> To: <Metorman46 at aol.com>
>> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values come
>>        from?
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Is it just me, or do the dollar values for some of the meteorites
>> shown on Meteorite Men seem a little inflated?  This is not a
>> criticism, but just a straight question.  As a collector and part-time
>> dealer, the prices given for some of these specimens seems a bit on
>> the optimistic side.
>>
>> >From a dealer's perspective,  if the public thinks a meteorite is
>> worth more than it actually is, the dealer charge more for them.
>>
>> >From a hunter's perspective, if the public thinks a meteorite is worth
>> more than it actually is, they can have unrealistic expectations for
>> what their rocks are worth.
>>
>> Steve has spoken about this on the List previously, because landowners
>> will have unrealistic expectations of what their specimens are worth -
>> and this gives hunters fits who are trying to buy specimens or cut
>> deals with landowners.
>>
>> So, where exactly are these dollar values coming from?  Who is setting
>> them and putting them on the screen during the final edit?
>>
>> Best regards and happy hunting,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
>> On 2/17/10, Metorman46 at aol.com <Metorman46 at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Michael;
>>>
>>> I highlighted your statement from a previous post because i think it says
>>> all that can simply be said about their great program.It energizes me to
>>> watch  Geoff and Steve do the thing that most of the worlds meteorite
>>> collectors would  like to be doing.But,we are too busy with our work- a-
>>> world lives
>>> to ever do  much of that kind of activity.It sure is pleasant to sit in
>>> an
>>> easy chair,warm  or cool and enjoy seeing it done while educating the
>>> world
>>> community about the  joy of the hunt and even profitable sometimes.There
>>> probably will be a lot of  new interest in meteorites and collecting
>>> them.(Get
>>> ready dealers and collectors  that sell specimens).It"s a coming!
>>>
>>> Thanks to all for the great posts;Herman Archer IMCA #  2770
>>>______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Mike Gilmer
>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:29:39 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:29:39 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar
	valuescomefrom?
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002180426i2b80b723l60d22dae871d53a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e51421551002171911w110cb30bn70c24798b03c4e54@mail.gmail.com>
	<1896902894-1266464414-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2135908392-@bda353.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<93aaac891002172129u26a2a1e6i126868403eb036e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<402328373-1266473672-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1240053059-@bda353.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<e51421551002180426i2b80b723l60d22dae871d53a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002180429v3c0ccad1n640b75f09e48224d@mail.gmail.com>

In my last post there was a typo -

My post said - "And my dollar amount gripe was specifically targeted
at Sonny's CM1."

I meant to say - "And my dollar amount gripe was NOT specifically
targeted at Sonny's CM1."



On 2/18/10, Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Steve, Jason and List,
>
> I woke up this morning with the intention of writing a thoughtful
> reply to Steve's last post, but Jason Utas already beat me to it.
>
> I wasn't trying to be critical.  I like the show a lot and have not
> missed an episode yet.  My wife and I make time to watch it every
> Wednesday, and we enjoy it together.  I have fun pointing out the
> people I "know" while watching the show.  It's funny because Dr.
> Garvie recently invited me to come to ASU and smell their Murchison
> samples and then I said to my wife - "Hey look, that's the guy who
> said I can come smell his meteorites.", and she got a laugh out of
> that.  It's fun a show and I hope it continues to be successful - not
> just for Steve and Geoff (which kudos to them), but for the whole
> meteorite community.
>
> But (you knew there was a but!), I have some reservations about the
> emphasis on dollar amounts.  The network and producers know that
> nothing motivates the general public like money and that in this
> economy, treasure hunting is very popular.  Let's face it, not
> everyone shares our sometimes-irrational love of space rocks.  So I
> can imagine the network/producers (or whoever calls these types of
> shots) pushing for more emphasis on the profit angle of meteorite
> hunting - to keep the lay public interested and watching the show.
> That angle alone won't snag new viewers who are completely
> uninterested in meteorites, but it may convince a few who are sitting
> on the fence to watch.
>
> Jason and Steve, you both raise good points.  Something is only worth
> what someone will pay for it.  I once paid $100 for a 1mg speck of
> Sylacauga.   That is an astounding $100,000.00 a gram.  But, I
> seriously doubt I could sell a 1-gram fragment of Sylacauga for $100K.
>  We may know the ways of the market and how collectors spend their
> money, but the general lay public does not.  Those of us reading this
> on the List, we know what Steve and Jason just said is true.  But I
> can imagine a newbie watching the show and walking away with the idea
> that he can find a half-million dollar rock (that is not a planetary
> and weighs less than 1 kilo) in the desert and actually get that much
> money for it at auction from Christies or some other big auction
> house.   We know the realities of the market - some of the viewers
> probably do not.  It would be nice to hear Steve or Geoff mention
> something along the lines of what Steve just posted - that yes, the
> specimen is "worth" that much, but it will probably never bring that
> much from a sale.  The only way a million-dollar (or half-million
> dollar) meteorite is going to bring in that much money is if the owner
> insures it, then it burns up in a house fire, and the insurance
> company cuts a big check for it.
>
> As for Tagish Lake - only a government would pay that kind of money
> for something.  Most private individuals couldn't afford to fork over
> almost a million dollars for a 800-gram briquette.  In the US, the
> finder of that 800 gram specimen would still be sitting on it and
> hoping for a sale someday. (or an insured house fire)
>
> Don't get me wrong.  I am not picking on Sonny's awesome specimen.
> That is truly an amazing find and any meteorite hunter would cream
> himself upon finding it.  The only thing better would be if Sonny
> found the first US lunaite.  And my dollar amount gripe was
> specifically targeted at Sonny's CM1.  Even those dry lake bed
> weathered chondrites seem overpriced at $1.50 a gram or $2 a gram.  I
> guess they are probably worth that much now because they have been on
> TV, but I can buy prettier weathered ordinary-chondrites from NWA for
> a 20 cents a gram.  A collector looking for a cool rock that was on TV
> and was found by a famous meteorite hunter will pay extra for an OC
> from Meteorite Men - but most collectors who buy weathered OC's are
> also the types who look for bargains and will buy the stones that cost
> .20 cents a gram and pass on the more expensive ones, regardless of
> their connection to TV.   Heck, I just traded 100 grams of trinitite
> for 4000 grams of weathered uNWA stones.  I won't say what my cost on
> trinitite is, but I can say that the batch of uNWA I traded for is
> prettier than the dry lake bed specimens (for the most part, I do have
> some UGLY ones though) and my cost was less than $1 a gram -
> substantially less.  (FWIW, the ugliest ones are going into a rock
> tumbler)
>
> I just don't want this emphasis on dollar values to come back and bite
> us in the ass.  I can imagine Steve (or any hunter) going up to some
> landowner and attempting to broker a deal to hunt on the land, and the
> landowner will expect $10,000 for every 100-gram OC that is pulled out
> of the dirt on his land - because there is an inflated sense of what
> these stones are worth.  On the List, we know that a meteorite's
> stated value often has an asterisk next to it, and I think it's
> important that the general public knows that as well.
>
> Best regards and happy huntings,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/18/10, meteorhntr at aol.com <meteorhntr at aol.com> wrote:
>> Jason,
>>
>> I agree getting $700,000 in green bills is a long shot, but if it can be
>> traded for, say 14 items each in the $50,000 range, and those could be
>> converted to green cash, is it wrong to say it is worth that.
>>
>> Need I remind everyone that the finder of the Tagish Lake 800 gram rock
>> (similar in size and composition as Sonny's) got $800,000 in Canadian
>> money
>> for his find.
>>
>> Sonny is in the business, and as such, he really might realize $700k for
>> his
>> CM1 rock over time.  Could he take it to a pawn shop in vegas and get
>> $700,000?  No, I would think not.
>>
>> But if someone else finds a CM1 here in the US and wants to sell theirs
>> for
>> $72/g ($50,000 / 699g) then cool.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
>> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:29:05
>> To: Meteorite-list<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values
>> 	comefrom?
>>
>> Hell Mike, Steve, and List,
>> Right, but you're applying the price per gram that would apply to
>> small pieces in retail to a much larger stone.
>> A single gram may be worth a thousand dollars (in this case, it's
>> probably justified, given what comparable material is known to sell
>> for), but the simple fact of the matter is that it would take decades
>> to sell off 700 grams at that price in small pieces.  Ask any dealer
>> who's held a stable asking price for material for which they are the
>> only source.
>> As a complete stone, I estimate that the highest offer on it would
>> reach $60-70,000.  Don't get me wrong - it could sell for more,
>> but...it's wholesale.
>> Yes, it might be "worth" more in a sense, but I believe that the
>> general consensus here has always been that these rocks are "worth"
>> what people were willing to pay for them.  I haven't asked Sonny, but
>> based on what I know of the market, I doubt that he's gotten an offer
>> as high as 100k for it.  He might well get a better offer, but that
>> would make it one of the more costly meteorites to actually sell - in
>> the past decade.
>>
>> So, no.  I think it's safe to say that $700,000 is not close to a
>> reasonable estimate.
>> Even if you assume $1000/g for smaller pieces, you're not taking
>> cutting losses into account, which would take it to at most $500k, or
>> thereabouts, and it would take so long to sell that simply stating a
>> price like that is rather deceptive.
>>
>> There's a reason that the asking price for the 420kg Fukang main mass
>> is in the 2-3 million dollar range (about $5-6/g), as opposed to being
>> $16.8 million.  Fukang may be "worth" $40/g.  That doesn't mean that a
>> large piece is worth that much.
>>
>> And the same principle applies across the board - a single acre of
>> land will run you more per acre than will an acre of land in a
>> hundred-acre parcel.  And if you buy ten cars from a dealer, they'll
>> probably give you something of a discount, whereas if you buy only
>> one...not so much.
>>
>> I appreciate the optimistic quote from the market's perspective,
>> but...it's just not reasonable to say that the rock is worth that much
>> when it wouldn't fetch that on the market.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:40 PM,  <meteorhntr at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Hi MikeG and List,
>>>
>>> In this episode, Sony's CM1 is one of only two found outside of
>>> Antarctica. The other one, as I understand, sold out quickly at several
>>> thousand dollars per gram. Sony has placed a value of $1,000 per gram
>>> thus
>>> the estimation of his 699g rock at $700,000 is probably reasonable for a
>>> US find.
>>>
>>> I was quoted as saying these ordinary chondrite pieces were probably
>>> worth
>>> $1 per gram but I will probably list them on eBay for $5 per gram (for
>>> the
>>> 2-10g size pieces) and see how they do.
>>>
>>> Steve Arnold
>>>
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:11:37
>>> To: <Metorman46 at aol.com>
>>> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values
>>> come
>>>        from?
>>>
>>> Hi Folks,
>>>
>>> Is it just me, or do the dollar values for some of the meteorites
>>> shown on Meteorite Men seem a little inflated?  This is not a
>>> criticism, but just a straight question.  As a collector and part-time
>>> dealer, the prices given for some of these specimens seems a bit on
>>> the optimistic side.
>>>
>>> >From a dealer's perspective,  if the public thinks a meteorite is
>>> worth more than it actually is, the dealer charge more for them.
>>>
>>> >From a hunter's perspective, if the public thinks a meteorite is worth
>>> more than it actually is, they can have unrealistic expectations for
>>> what their rocks are worth.
>>>
>>> Steve has spoken about this on the List previously, because landowners
>>> will have unrealistic expectations of what their specimens are worth -
>>> and this gives hunters fits who are trying to buy specimens or cut
>>> deals with landowners.
>>>
>>> So, where exactly are these dollar values coming from?  Who is setting
>>> them and putting them on the screen during the final edit?
>>>
>>> Best regards and happy hunting,
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/17/10, Metorman46 at aol.com <Metorman46 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Michael;
>>>>
>>>> I highlighted your statement from a previous post because i think it
>>>> says
>>>> all that can simply be said about their great program.It energizes me
>>>> to
>>>> watch  Geoff and Steve do the thing that most of the worlds meteorite
>>>> collectors would  like to be doing.But,we are too busy with our work-
>>>> a-
>>>> world lives
>>>> to ever do  much of that kind of activity.It sure is pleasant to sit in
>>>> an
>>>> easy chair,warm  or cool and enjoy seeing it done while educating the
>>>> world
>>>> community about the  joy of the hunt and even profitable
>>>> sometimes.There
>>>> probably will be a lot of  new interest in meteorites and collecting
>>>> them.(Get
>>>> ready dealers and collectors  that sell specimens).It"s a coming!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all for the great posts;Herman Archer IMCA #  2770
>>>>______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Mike Gilmer
>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Thu Feb 18 07:47:11 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:47:11 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] THE METEORITE MEN is the greatest promotion
	ofmeteoritics Ever.
In-Reply-To: <1cdf5.d2562db.38adfd3a@aol.com>
References: <1cdf5.d2562db.38adfd3a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001d01cab098$7dd159b0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>



Hello,

I fully agree!

Dr.Hey, Dr.Mason, Prof. Orcel, Prof. Sztrokay and Dr.Fournier D'Albe wrote
once:


"Since meteorites are the only specimens we receive of material from outside
our Earth, it is essential for the progress of science that every effort be
made to collect these specimens and make them available for investigation.
Unesco, through its Working Group on Meteorites, is trying to interest
people everywhere in the observation and recovery of meteorites."

That are the first sentences of a circular, they proposed, which....

"It is recommended that the circular"..."be sent to the institution
responsible for meteorites in each country, with the suggestion that copies
of it be given wide circulations in schools, post offices, police stations
and other public services. It is desirable that the press and radio be
encouraged to arouse public interest in this subject."

(UNESCO/NS/189, Paris 1964).


I'm not aware of any attempt in the recent 45 years, which accomplished that
mission so grandiosely like Geoff's and Steve's Meteorite Men series.

I hope, the series will be broadcasted in Europe too,
where, seen the situation of most museums and institutes, meteoritics
urgently could need more publicity.

And if you ask me, I would know two hot candidates for the next Service
Award of the Meteoritical Society  ;-)

Best!
Martin

 



From cdtucson at cox.net  Thu Feb 18 11:18:21 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:18:21 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] THE METEORITE MEN is the greatest promotion
 ofmeteoritics Ever.
In-Reply-To: <001d01cab098$7dd159b0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <20100218111821.7T4PO.80127.imail@fed1rmwml43>

Martin 
I second your nomination for Steve and Geoff but would also add three more critical players to that list.
Dr's Meenakshi Wadhwa, Laurence Garvie and Jeff Grossman. Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote: 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I fully agree!
> 
> Dr.Hey, Dr.Mason, Prof. Orcel, Prof. Sztrokay and Dr.Fournier D'Albe wrote
> once:
> 
> 
> "Since meteorites are the only specimens we receive of material from outside
> our Earth, it is essential for the progress of science that every effort be
> made to collect these specimens and make them available for investigation.
> Unesco, through its Working Group on Meteorites, is trying to interest
> people everywhere in the observation and recovery of meteorites."
> 
> That are the first sentences of a circular, they proposed, which....
> 
> "It is recommended that the circular"..."be sent to the institution
> responsible for meteorites in each country, with the suggestion that copies
> of it be given wide circulations in schools, post offices, police stations
> and other public services. It is desirable that the press and radio be
> encouraged to arouse public interest in this subject."
> 
> (UNESCO/NS/189, Paris 1964).
> 
> 
> I'm not aware of any attempt in the recent 45 years, which accomplished that
> mission so grandiosely like Geoff's and Steve's Meteorite Men series.
> 
> I hope, the series will be broadcasted in Europe too,
> where, seen the situation of most museums and institutes, meteoritics
> urgently could need more publicity.
> 
> And if you ask me, I would know two hot candidates for the next Service
> Award of the Meteoritical Society  ;-)
> 
> Best!
> Martin
> 
>  
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Thu Feb 18 11:27:06 2010
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:27:06 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Ebay auctions and Lodranite for 16/g!
Message-ID: <1416280513-1266510423-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-663192252-@bda690.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Ok this is ridiculously priced to sell, my piece of 2871 for 16/g.  Many unclassifieds for low low prices as well...
http://stores.ebay.com/Mile-High-Meteorites

Matt Morgan
----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA


From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Thu Feb 18 11:50:36 2010
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:50:36 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trying to contact Edward Hodges
Message-ID: <B90E02903FF34AB082E4A116A728E340@Bandli1>

Dear List:

I am trying to contact Edward Hodges. If someone has his email, can you
please send it to me privately? Thank you!

Mike Bandli

-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA?#5765
-----------------------------------




From fujmon at mac.com  Thu Feb 18 14:24:37 2010
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:24:37 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-New Lodranite, ebay offerings
Message-ID: <20B1F4D2-122F-42E6-8ED8-55BAC073C19A@mac.com>

Aloha Listoids,

NEW LODRANITE --------------------------------------------------------------
Some of you may remember an achondrite exhibiting an iridescent crystal on its surface that I had shared with the list (http://astroday.net/meteorites.html).  A 29g fragment was originally purchased and examined by Dr Ken Hon of UHH Geology as well as Dr Jeffrey Taylor of UH HIGP, and finally classified by Dr Tony Irving of UW.  Tony informs me that the stone is formally classified as NWA 6075, a brecciated lodranite paired with NWAs 4478, 4875, 5403, and 5488.  

Olivine Fa10.6 (FeO/MnO = 21.6)
Clinopyroxene Fs4.7Wo44.5 (FeO/MnO = 11.0)
Orthopyroxene Fs9.7Wo1.3 (FeO/MnO = 14.6)

Although Lodranites on the market are priced from between $100-$1500/g, the Big Kahuna is offering NWA 6075 to the Meteorite list community for $40/g in various sizes of full and part slices that can be seen here:  http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/NWA6075.html

There are specimens available in every budget range, so take a look!  Whatever does not sell will be offered on ebay, so grab it now while you can without having to fight with other bidders.

EBAY AUCTIONS ---------------------------------------------------------------
In addition to NWA 6075, I have my usual assortment of quality meteorites at the lowest prices on earth on ebay, in auctions that will end this Saturday starting at 7:55 am Pacific / 10:55 am Eastern / 3:55 pm London / 5:55 pm Helsinki / 11: 55 pm Singapore.  Up for grabs are:

NWA 4734 Lun 0.04, 0.91g part slices of a fresh Lunar Mare Basalt
NWA 6075 Lod 0.91, 4.25g slices of a New Lodranite, from $36
Kem Kem 22 15.75g polished half stone, predates NWAs, $20 
Chergach H5 14.15g 98% FC, one of my best, currently $33.50
Gao H5 11.07g individual w/ natural patina, less than a buck/g
Park Forest L5 Hammer slices 0.36, 1.11g from only $14 WOW
Allende CV3 - The bestest, freshest material on ebay bar none!
NWA 3118 CV3 - Hot Desert carbonaceous for less than lunch $
Murchison CM2 0.21, 1.01g lot, I love the smell of Murch in AM
SaU 290 CH3 2.55g Very Rare type, usually $100/g, Bid now!
Karoonda CK4 0.10g frag, get your CK here at only $20
Millbillillie Euc 5.68g Best Millies on the market!  Currently $55
Camel Donga Euc 1.21g Glossy flowlines, a steal at only $9
NWA 2698 How 1.17g slice, get this beauty starting at only $23
Odessa IA 3.4g gaggle of 3 individuals can be yours for $5
Mundrabilla IAB 34.68 stunning individual starting at $40
Gibeon IVA 8.03g sculpted beauty crazy cheap at only $1/g 
Vaca Muerta Mes 15.75g gorgeous individual only $18
LDG Impactite  5.44g Good Clarity, Color, Shape for $10

... and much more, like some cool pendant vials filled with Murchison frags, NWA x Pal, Henbury, Tatahouine, and many quality unclassified and NWA 869 stones.

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html

Remember that you can count on the Big Kahuna to provide you with the highest quality authentic meteorites at the lowest prices on earth.  

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
(808) 640-9161







From mlblood at cox.net  Thu Feb 18 15:47:36 2010
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:47:36 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values
 come from?
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002180426i2b80b723l60d22dae871d53a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C7A2E768.B99C%mlblood@cox.net>

Hi Michael and all,
        It reminds me of the 60s when the cops made a bust on
Like 5 Kilos of pot and said "it has a street value of $10,000!"
Of course, in those days pot was not NEARLY as potent as
I hear it is today (due to massive concentration of THC through
"better genetics") and sold at that time  for $10 a "lid" which
Was  an oz. - so, $360 for a Kilo sold by the "lid." Of course, if
you bought a whole Kilo, it was more like $95 for very good stuff
on Height Street - which brought the best price on the west coast
And you could sell a whole suitcase full just walking down Heigt
Like a paper boy saying, "Kilos, Kilos, anyone want a Kilo?"
And sell them all 1 to 3 at a time.
        So, the cops and the news media (some of the news people
HAD to know this was BS from first hand experience) would
Inflate a stash worth less than $500-$1,800max to "$10K street
value!" (heard this figure was "justified" by figuring $1 per
"Joint,"  which, of course, no one bought or sold by then - though
I hear they did back in the day when the beatniks and jazz
musicians were the primary indulgers of pot) and besides, those
would have been the thinnest joints ever seen by man.
        Unfortunately, for meteorite dealers, the mark up is not
What it was for pot in the 60s - but, of course, there is a mark
Up or no one could be a dealer and hunting meteorites would
Be exclusively a non-profit hobby.
        The point is, while it might take more than a lifetime to sell
A large meteorite 1 gram at a time, yes, a TV show IS designed
To attract viewers and what could be more appealing than science
Mixed with TREASURE HUNTING! with two of the nicest guys
In the meteorite community & commentary by a respected leading
Scientist in a lab?
        As far as overinflating prices farmers may want, etc. THAT
Has been going on a very long time.
        Best wishes, Michael


On 2/18/10 4:26 AM, "Michael Gilmer" <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steve, Jason and List,
> 
> I woke up this morning with the intention of writing a thoughtful
> reply to Steve's last post, but Jason Utas already beat me to it.
> 
> I wasn't trying to be critical.  I like the show a lot and have not
> missed an episode yet.  My wife and I make time to watch it every
> Wednesday, and we enjoy it together.  I have fun pointing out the
> people I "know" while watching the show.  It's funny because Dr.
> Garvie recently invited me to come to ASU and smell their Murchison
> samples and then I said to my wife - "Hey look, that's the guy who
> said I can come smell his meteorites.", and she got a laugh out of
> that.  It's fun a show and I hope it continues to be successful - not
> just for Steve and Geoff (which kudos to them), but for the whole
> meteorite community.
> 
> But (you knew there was a but!), I have some reservations about the
> emphasis on dollar amounts.  The network and producers know that
> nothing motivates the general public like money and that in this
> economy, treasure hunting is very popular.  Let's face it, not
> everyone shares our sometimes-irrational love of space rocks.  So I
> can imagine the network/producers (or whoever calls these types of
> shots) pushing for more emphasis on the profit angle of meteorite
> hunting - to keep the lay public interested and watching the show.
> That angle alone won't snag new viewers who are completely
> uninterested in meteorites, but it may convince a few who are sitting
> on the fence to watch.
> 
> Jason and Steve, you both raise good points.  Something is only worth
> what someone will pay for it.  I once paid $100 for a 1mg speck of
> Sylacauga.   That is an astounding $100,000.00 a gram.  But, I
> seriously doubt I could sell a 1-gram fragment of Sylacauga for $100K.
>  We may know the ways of the market and how collectors spend their
> money, but the general lay public does not.  Those of us reading this
> on the List, we know what Steve and Jason just said is true.  But I
> can imagine a newbie watching the show and walking away with the idea
> that he can find a half-million dollar rock (that is not a planetary
> and weighs less than 1 kilo) in the desert and actually get that much
> money for it at auction from Christies or some other big auction
> house.   We know the realities of the market - some of the viewers
> probably do not.  It would be nice to hear Steve or Geoff mention
> something along the lines of what Steve just posted - that yes, the
> specimen is "worth" that much, but it will probably never bring that
> much from a sale.  The only way a million-dollar (or half-million
> dollar) meteorite is going to bring in that much money is if the owner
> insures it, then it burns up in a house fire, and the insurance
> company cuts a big check for it.
> 
> As for Tagish Lake - only a government would pay that kind of money
> for something.  Most private individuals couldn't afford to fork over
> almost a million dollars for a 800-gram briquette.  In the US, the
> finder of that 800 gram specimen would still be sitting on it and
> hoping for a sale someday. (or an insured house fire)
> 
> Don't get me wrong.  I am not picking on Sonny's awesome specimen.
> That is truly an amazing find and any meteorite hunter would cream
> himself upon finding it.  The only thing better would be if Sonny
> found the first US lunaite.  And my dollar amount gripe was
> specifically targeted at Sonny's CM1.  Even those dry lake bed
> weathered chondrites seem overpriced at $1.50 a gram or $2 a gram.  I
> guess they are probably worth that much now because they have been on
> TV, but I can buy prettier weathered ordinary-chondrites from NWA for
> a 20 cents a gram.  A collector looking for a cool rock that was on TV
> and was found by a famous meteorite hunter will pay extra for an OC
> from Meteorite Men - but most collectors who buy weathered OC's are
> also the types who look for bargains and will buy the stones that cost
> .20 cents a gram and pass on the more expensive ones, regardless of
> their connection to TV.   Heck, I just traded 100 grams of trinitite
> for 4000 grams of weathered uNWA stones.  I won't say what my cost on
> trinitite is, but I can say that the batch of uNWA I traded for is
> prettier than the dry lake bed specimens (for the most part, I do have
> some UGLY ones though) and my cost was less than $1 a gram -
> substantially less.  (FWIW, the ugliest ones are going into a rock
> tumbler)
> 
> I just don't want this emphasis on dollar values to come back and bite
> us in the ass.  I can imagine Steve (or any hunter) going up to some
> landowner and attempting to broker a deal to hunt on the land, and the
> landowner will expect $10,000 for every 100-gram OC that is pulled out
> of the dirt on his land - because there is an inflated sense of what
> these stones are worth.  On the List, we know that a meteorite's
> stated value often has an asterisk next to it, and I think it's
> important that the general public knows that as well.
> 
> Best regards and happy huntings,
> 
> MikeG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/18/10, meteorhntr at aol.com <meteorhntr at aol.com> wrote:
>> Jason,
>> 
>> I agree getting $700,000 in green bills is a long shot, but if it can be
>> traded for, say 14 items each in the $50,000 range, and those could be
>> converted to green cash, is it wrong to say it is worth that.
>> 
>> Need I remind everyone that the finder of the Tagish Lake 800 gram rock
>> (similar in size and composition as Sonny's) got $800,000 in Canadian money
>> for his find.
>> 
>> Sonny is in the business, and as such, he really might realize $700k for his
>> CM1 rock over time.  Could he take it to a pawn shop in vegas and get
>> $700,000?  No, I would think not.
>> 
>> But if someone else finds a CM1 here in the US and wants to sell theirs for
>> $72/g ($50,000 / 699g) then cool.
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
>> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:29:05
>> To: Meteorite-list<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values
>> comefrom?
>> 
>> Hell Mike, Steve, and List,
>> Right, but you're applying the price per gram that would apply to
>> small pieces in retail to a much larger stone.
>> A single gram may be worth a thousand dollars (in this case, it's
>> probably justified, given what comparable material is known to sell
>> for), but the simple fact of the matter is that it would take decades
>> to sell off 700 grams at that price in small pieces.  Ask any dealer
>> who's held a stable asking price for material for which they are the
>> only source.
>> As a complete stone, I estimate that the highest offer on it would
>> reach $60-70,000.  Don't get me wrong - it could sell for more,
>> but...it's wholesale.
>> Yes, it might be "worth" more in a sense, but I believe that the
>> general consensus here has always been that these rocks are "worth"
>> what people were willing to pay for them.  I haven't asked Sonny, but
>> based on what I know of the market, I doubt that he's gotten an offer
>> as high as 100k for it.  He might well get a better offer, but that
>> would make it one of the more costly meteorites to actually sell - in
>> the past decade.
>> 
>> So, no.  I think it's safe to say that $700,000 is not close to a
>> reasonable estimate.
>> Even if you assume $1000/g for smaller pieces, you're not taking
>> cutting losses into account, which would take it to at most $500k, or
>> thereabouts, and it would take so long to sell that simply stating a
>> price like that is rather deceptive.
>> 
>> There's a reason that the asking price for the 420kg Fukang main mass
>> is in the 2-3 million dollar range (about $5-6/g), as opposed to being
>> $16.8 million.  Fukang may be "worth" $40/g.  That doesn't mean that a
>> large piece is worth that much.
>> 
>> And the same principle applies across the board - a single acre of
>> land will run you more per acre than will an acre of land in a
>> hundred-acre parcel.  And if you buy ten cars from a dealer, they'll
>> probably give you something of a discount, whereas if you buy only
>> one...not so much.
>> 
>> I appreciate the optimistic quote from the market's perspective,
>> but...it's just not reasonable to say that the rock is worth that much
>> when it wouldn't fetch that on the market.
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:40 PM,  <meteorhntr at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Hi MikeG and List,
>>> 
>>> In this episode, Sony's CM1 is one of only two found outside of
>>> Antarctica. The other one, as I understand, sold out quickly at several
>>> thousand dollars per gram. Sony has placed a value of $1,000 per gram thus
>>> the estimation of his 699g rock at $700,000 is probably reasonable for a
>>> US find.
>>> 
>>> I was quoted as saying these ordinary chondrite pieces were probably worth
>>> $1 per gram but I will probably list them on eBay for $5 per gram (for the
>>> 2-10g size pieces) and see how they do.
>>> 
>>> Steve Arnold
>>> 
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:11:37
>>> To: <Metorman46 at aol.com>
>>> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values come
>>>        from?
>>> 
>>> Hi Folks,
>>> 
>>> Is it just me, or do the dollar values for some of the meteorites
>>> shown on Meteorite Men seem a little inflated?  This is not a
>>> criticism, but just a straight question.  As a collector and part-time
>>> dealer, the prices given for some of these specimens seems a bit on
>>> the optimistic side.
>>> 
>>>> From a dealer's perspective,  if the public thinks a meteorite is
>>> worth more than it actually is, the dealer charge more for them.
>>> 
>>>> From a hunter's perspective, if the public thinks a meteorite is worth
>>> more than it actually is, they can have unrealistic expectations for
>>> what their rocks are worth.
>>> 
>>> Steve has spoken about this on the List previously, because landowners
>>> will have unrealistic expectations of what their specimens are worth -
>>> and this gives hunters fits who are trying to buy specimens or cut
>>> deals with landowners.
>>> 
>>> So, where exactly are these dollar values coming from?  Who is setting
>>> them and putting them on the screen during the final edit?
>>> 
>>> Best regards and happy hunting,
>>> 
>>> MikeG
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2/17/10, Metorman46 at aol.com <Metorman46 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Michael;
>>>> 
>>>> I highlighted your statement from a previous post because i think it says
>>>> all that can simply be said about their great program.It energizes me to
>>>> watch  Geoff and Steve do the thing that most of the worlds meteorite
>>>> collectors would  like to be doing.But,we are too busy with our work- a-
>>>> world lives
>>>> to ever do  much of that kind of activity.It sure is pleasant to sit in
>>>> an
>>>> easy chair,warm  or cool and enjoy seeing it done while educating the
>>>> world
>>>> community about the  joy of the hunt and even profitable sometimes.There
>>>> probably will be a lot of  new interest in meteorites and collecting
>>>> them.(Get
>>>> ready dealers and collectors  that sell specimens).It"s a coming!
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks to all for the great posts;Herman Archer IMCA #  2770
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Mike Gilmer
>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
> 




From news at chladnis-heirs.com  Thu Feb 18 15:48:00 2010
From: news at chladnis-heirs.com (Chladnis Heirs)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:48:00 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?AD=3A_Special_-_Fabulous_=26_New_?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Diogenite__-_NWA_6024_prov=2E?=
Message-ID: <001101cab0db$c015c8e0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Dear collectors,

Today we have the pleasure to present you an ? in our eyes - simply
wonderful stone:

NWA 6024 - a new diogenite.

We all are aware of the Vesta-debris-breccias,
where the bow is drawn from the polymict eucrites with their often typically
light-grey matrix - over the howardites - to the polymict diogenites.
And at the diogenitic end we arrived with NWA 6024.
And to what an end we came!

NWA 6024 is by all means unusual, as it contains these large smashed
blackish pyroxene crystals,
giving it an extraordinary appearance.

This diogenite is looking so characteristically, that we are not aware of
any other similar NWA at present ? so that we strongly presume that it is
probably unpaired and a really new one.

Never before it was so easy for us to advertise a diogenite. ?
Just watch the pictures and you?ll know why!


Here the data:

NWA 6024 prov.
Morocco 2009
Tkw? 65g
Diogenite
Shock stage: moderate, Weathering grade: low

Unfortunately it had a low weight.
Fullslices we priced at 45$ a gram,
40$ a gram for the endcut with patches of remaining fusion crust.

And here you are:

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/special-nwa6024.html


Enjoy!

Stefan Ralew & Martin Altmann

Chladni's Heirs
Munich - Berlin
Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors
http://www.chladnis-heirs.com






From Impactika at aol.com  Thu Feb 18 15:49:29 2010
From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:49:29 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - I am back home!
Message-ID: <124e3.11357173.38af01d9@aol.com>

Hello everybody,

Yes, I made it back to Denver, it is a long drive. The car has now been 
unloaded and I have boxes all over the house, that I need to sort and empty so 
I can find what I am looking for. And I have a lot of emails to read and 
answer. Sorry but the show was so busy that by the time I would turn on my 
laptop and check my in box it was usually very late in the evening, I was very 
tired and words just danced across the screen without making any sense. So 
I'll try again in the next few days.
And yes the show was very busy and very succesful, Geoff and I had a lot of 
visitors, the room was crowded almost every day, and we were delighted to 
see all of you!.
I sold a lot of Almahata Sitta specimens, but I made a deal with my German 
colleague (Thank you Siegfried) and I am not sending it back to Germany any 
time soon, so if you asked for a piece of it, don't worry, I still have a 
very nice assortment of pieces, most sizes and prices. And I still have a 
couple small pieces of the Somervell County pallasite, from the Monnig 
Collection.
I also acquired some great pieces: the main mass(?) of Zacatecas, a bunch 
of great slices of Esquel, and Bencubbin, Marjalahti, Parnallee ... and more. 
They will all show up eventually on my site.
Also, to finish the show on a very high note, I made a great trade with ASU 
(Thank you Minnie and Laurence!) and brought home a large fragment of New 
Concord, a huge slice of Haskell, some not so small fragments of Murray and 
more. Those too will eventually show up on my site, but if you simply cannot 
wait, just contact me off-list. There could be a discount for saving me the 
time and trouble of listing them on my site. 

Now, back to work!!

Anne M. Black
http://www.impactika.com/
IMPACTIKA at aol.com
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
http://www.imca.cc/


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Feb 18 16:51:08 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:51:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Enhanced 3D Model of Mars Crater Edge Shows Ups
	and Downs
Message-ID: <201002182151.o1ILp89J000380@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-053  

Enhanced 3D Model of Mars Crater Edge Shows Ups and Downs
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
February 17, 2010

A dramatic 3D Mars view based on terrain modeling from NASA's Mars
Reconnaissance Orbiter data shows "highs and lows" of Mojave Crater.

The vertical dimension is exaggerated three-fold compared with
horizontal dimensions in the synthesized images of a portion of the
crater's wall. The resulting images look like the view from a
low-altitude aircraft. They reflect one use of digital modeling derived
from two observations by the orbiter's High Resolution Imaging Science
Experiment camera.

This enhanced view shows material that has ponded and is backed up
behind massive blocks of bedrock in the crater's terrace walls. Hundreds
of Martian impact craters have similar ponding with pitted surfaces.
Scientists believe these "pitted ponds" are created when material melted
by the crater-causing impacts is captured behind the wall terraces.

Mojave Crater, one of the freshest large craters on Mars, is about 60
kilometers (37 miles) in diameter. In a sense, it is like the Rosetta
Stone of Martian craters, because it is so fresh. Other craters of this
size generally have already been affected by erosion, sediment and other
geologic process. Fresh craters like Mohave reveal information about the
impact process, including ejecta, melting and deposits.

Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov

2010-053



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Feb 18 16:53:17 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:53:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Stardust Burns for Comet,
	Less Than a Year Away
Message-ID: <201002182153.o1ILrH46001246@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-055  

NASA's Stardust Burns for Comet, Less Than a Year Away
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
February 18, 2010

PASADENA, Calif. - Just three days shy of one year before its planned
flyby of comet Tempel 1, NASA's Stardust spacecraft has successfully
performed a maneuver to adjust the time of its encounter by eight hours
and 20 minutes. The delay maximizes the probability of the spacecraft
capturing high-resolution images of the desired surface features of the
2.99-kilometer-wide (1.86 mile) potato-shaped mass of ice and dust.

With the spacecraft on the opposite side of the solar system and beyond
the orbit of Mars, the trajectory correction maneuver began at 5:21 p.m.
EST (2:21 p.m. PST) on Feb. 17. Stardust's rockets fired for 22 minutes
and 53 seconds, changing the spacecraft's speed by 24 meters per second
(54 miles per hour).

Stardust's maneuver placed the spacecraft on a course to fly by the
comet just before 8:42 p.m. PST (11:42 p.m. EST) on Feb. 14, 2011 -
Valentine's Day. Time of closest approach to Tempel 1 is important
because the comet rotates, allowing different regions of the comet to be
illuminated by the sun's rays at different times. Mission scientists
want to maximize the probability that areas of interest previously
imaged by NASA's Deep Impact mission in 2005 will also be bathed in the
sun's rays and visible to Stardust's camera when it passes by.

"We could not have asked for a better result from a burn with even a
brand-new spacecraft," said Tim Larson, project manager for the
Stardust-NExT at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
"This bird has already logged one comet flyby, one Earth return of the
first samples ever collected from deep space, over 4,000 days of flight
and approximately 5.4 billion kilometers (3.4 billion miles) since launch."

Launched on Feb. 7, 1999, Stardust became the first spacecraft in
history to collect samples from a comet and return them to Earth for
study. While its sample return capsule parachuted to Earth in January
2006, mission controllers were placing the still viable spacecraft on a
trajectory that would allow NASA the opportunity to re-use the
already-proven flight system if a target of opportunity presented
itself. In January 2007, NASA re-christened the mission "Stardust-NExT"
(New Exploration of Tempel), and the Stardust team began a
four-and-a-half year journey to comet Tempel 1. This will be humanity's
second exploration of the comet - and the first time a comet has been
"re-visited."

"Stardust-NExT will provide scientists the first opportunity to see the
surface changes on a comet between successive visits into the inner
solar system," said Joe Veverka, principal investigator of Stardust-NExT
from Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y. "We have theories galore on how
each close pass to the sun causes changes to a comet. Stardust-NExT
should give some teeth to some of these theories, and take a bite out of
others."

Along with the high-resolution images of the comet's surface,
Stardust-NExT will also measure the composition, size distribution, and
flux of dust emitted into the coma, and provide important new
information on how Jupiter family comets evolve and how they formed 4.6
billion years ago.

Stardust-NExT is a low-cost mission that will expand the investigation
of comet Tempel 1 initiated by NASA's Deep Impact spacecraft. JPL, a
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages
Stardust-NExT for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C.
Joe Veverka of Cornell University is the mission's principal
investigator. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver Colo., built the
spacecraft and manages day-to-day mission operations.

For more information about Stardust-NExT, please visit:

http://stardustnext.jpl.nasa.gov

DC Agle 818-393-9011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
agle at jpl.nasa.gov

Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726
NASA Headquarters, Washington DC
dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov

2010-055



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Feb 18 18:24:16 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:24:16 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Some perspective for ya
Message-ID: <4B7DCC20.6080603@meteoritesusa.com>

Gives you some perspective.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/01/bigger-better-telescopes-needed-to-find-near-earth-asteroids/

Enjoy...

Regards,
Eric


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Feb 18 18:27:55 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:27:55 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Oops! - Lorton Murchison Meteorite - CBS Flubs
	Photo
Message-ID: <4B7DCCFB.2020103@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi All,

An article on the CBS Tech website has a captioned photo of the Lorton 
meteorite as the photo of the Murchison meteorite. It does not offer the 
"File Photo" caption either. The caption reads:

"Scientists say a meteorite may hold clues to the chemistry of the early 
solar system  (AP Photo)"

Ancient Meteorite May Be Older than Sun
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/18/tech/main6220188.shtml

Maybe someone should contact CBS...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA

P.S. Sorry if this gets posted twice. I posted it almost an hour ago and 
it didn't go through.



From mccartney at blackbearddata.com  Thu Feb 18 19:12:21 2010
From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:12:21 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - McCartney near Plane Impactor
Message-ID: <727a3f90$25d6f1d0$49b0b46$@com>


Not the crater I was looking for.

I was about a mile away when the plane hit. Just wanted my tires rotated.
Drove by the carnage on the way home. I got to see the aftermath and
breathe the smoke.

I had just gotten my new camcorder this morning so I had it with me. Video
of what I saw is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foDXmALwwM8

-mt




From meteoritefinder at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 19:47:23 2010
From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:47:23 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo/ Moldivite/web site update//AD/
Message-ID: <468bf6051002181647r4a0d4ce4r23fad19f6def0252@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone I have just finished adding some nice Canyon Diablo and
Moldivites to the site. These are from a collection which I traded
some of my custom Glorieta knives for so they are the hand picked good
stuff. Have a look here
http://www.meteoritefinder.com/whats-new-sale.htm
Oh yea I will be adding more tomorrow and I changed the look of the
what's new page, let me know what you think.
I am also looking to make fair trades as well, I have lots more
material to trade so if you are interested in expanding your inventory
let me know and perhaps we can arrange a fair trade. Muon, Canyon,
Toluca, Nantan, Brenham, Admire, Chinga, Dronino, Campo, well the list
goes on.
 Also we have auctions running on Ebay in two places
http://shop.ebay.com/flattoprocks/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
    and also here
http://shop.ebay.com/flatop-2/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

Thanks for looking

-- 
Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
www.meteoritefinder.com
     928-753-6825


From Marc.D.Fries at jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Feb 18 19:31:26 2010
From: Marc.D.Fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D (3225))
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:31:26 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball over Tucson 2-16-2010 7:28pm
In-Reply-To: <FB2117BE90A44EDA946ECCE179675749@Gregor>
Message-ID: <C7A31BDE.100E7%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>

First off, I?m back!  We had a very successful ANSMET season this year and
collected 1010 meteorites (with probably a few terrestrials in there).  The
weather was spectacular and allowed us to put about 750 miles on our
snowmobiles while searching.

As for this meteor ? I?ve pulled the radar data but I?m going to need a
better positional fix.  That radar outside of Tucson is notoriously ?noisy?
for some reason.  I?ll work on this further to see if something obvious pops
up in the meanwhile.

Cheers,
Marc Fries

************************************************
Solving the world?s problems one meteorite at a time.





On 2/16/10 6:58 PM, "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:

> Dear Fireball Chasers:
> 
> Mike Farmer wanted to let you know about a large green fireball he witnessed
> tonight over/near Tucson at about 7:28pm local time. He watched the fireball
> last for 3-4 seconds heading straight down and due east as he was driving
> east on Speedway. He suggests it could have fallen in SE Arizona or even New
> Mexico.
> 
> Any radar images, Rob, Marc??
> 
> Good luck!!
> 
> Best regards,
> Greg
> 
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Thu Feb 18 20:32:47 2010
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:32:47 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Kainsaz CO3 micrograph gallery post
Message-ID: <1a1fe.4f59557e.38af443f@aol.com>

Hi List,  I have a new set of micrographs  on my gallery.  They are of 
Kainsaz, a CO3.  I am trying a less than  conventional approach to these images 
and the results are  interesting.

There are some cool barred chondrule structures so many of  you may enjoy 
them.

The link is at:   
http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-gallery/articles/kainsaz/index.htm

This  link will take you straight to the images.


Kainsaz

Muslyumov,  Tatar Republic, Russia
Fell 1937, September 13, 1415 hrs
Tkw:  ~200kg
Carbonaceous chondrite  CO3  (25.56% total  iron)


Thanks,   Tom Phillips  



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 21:08:21 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:08:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sonny Clary on Meteorite Men
Message-ID: <629955.46301.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I have to say this was one of the most fun episodes yet. Too bad there is only one more episode left to go. Here's hoping for cycle two. My only complaint is that I just wish they spent more than just five minutes at the end of each episode taking about the science. It is the Science Channel after all!

It was good to see Sonny out on the lake bed. Sonny was one of three people who generously took me out on my first meteorite hunt some months ago. Though we all came up empty, it was great fun and for me, a huge learning experience. One that left many fond memories. I hope to be able to hunt with him again in the future.

It was great to see him again during The Show a few weeks ago and meet his wife and Brix too.

I have to say that one scene when they got back to the hotel room exhausted, looked very familiar. We all looked that way at the end of the day during our hunt too!

One thing I didn't discuss with Sonny during our time together was what he did for a living. As a former fireman myself, it was a great and pleasant surprise to find out that Sonny is a member of the brotherhood, a Fireman & EMT in Las Vegas. So, we have a great meteorite hunter, a selfless public servant and an all round great guy all in one!

Thanks to Steve & Geoff for asking Sonny to be on your show. I can't think of anyone who would make a better guest to be spotlighted on your show!

He is exactly the type of person we should be seeing on TV!


--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


      


From darryl at dof3.com  Thu Feb 18 21:27:11 2010
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:27:11 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Kainsaz CO3 micrograph gallery post
In-Reply-To: <1a1fe.4f59557e.38af443f@aol.com>
References: <1a1fe.4f59557e.38af443f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <F1E89CA0-C6AD-4704-8759-59774D0F00CC@dof3.com>



So completely fantastic, Tom.

As a CO 3.1 witnessed fall---it's a fantastic meteorite....and yours  
are wondrous, surreal images.

Kudos!


All best / d,


On Feb 18, 2010, at 8:32 PM, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote:

> Hi List,  I have a new set of micrographs  on my gallery.  They are of
> Kainsaz, a CO3.  I am trying a less than  conventional approach to  
> these images
> and the results are  interesting.
>
> There are some cool barred chondrule structures so many of  you may  
> enjoy
> them.
>
> The link is at:
> http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-gallery/articles/kainsaz/index.htm
>
> This  link will take you straight to the images.
>
>
> Kainsaz
>
> Muslyumov,  Tatar Republic, Russia
> Fell 1937, September 13, 1415 hrs
> Tkw:  ~200kg
> Carbonaceous chondrite  CO3  (25.56% total  iron)
>
>
> Thanks,   Tom Phillips
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From GeoZay at aol.com  Thu Feb 18 21:31:31 2010
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:31:31 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sonny Clary on Meteorite Men
Message-ID: <1bb15.6897a55e.38af5203@aol.com>

>>As a former fireman myself, it was a  great and pleasant surprise to find 
out that Sonny is a member of the  brotherhood, a Fireman & EMT in Las 
Vegas.<<

I watched the  latest episode tonight too and was also thrilled to see that 
Sonny was a  fireman. Looks like we got a batch of people around here that 
was or is in that  profession. I retired from the fire service in Southern 
California after 30  years. As a matter of fact, there's a good chance that 
Michael Blood has  probably seen my engine drive by a time or two. I was 
stationed on top of Mt.  Helix bordering the city of La Mesa. I believe Michael 
lives in La Mesa?  
George Zay  



From photophlow at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 22:00:58 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:00:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" episode 5 video
Message-ID: <406420.62489.qm@web113614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello Listers,
?
Here is a link to Meteorite Men, episode 05 for those who haven't seen this one. I tried to look for episodes 2,3,4 but can only find 1 and 5. In this episode Sonny is a guest on the show and presents his Moapa Valley?CM1 meteorite, valued at $700,000. I am?wondering how much the Paris?CM?meteorite would bring in this market for the fact its the only CM meteorite to?exists, now that's a rare find. 
?
Lastly, after watching this episode I could see why alot of numbers $$$?were thrown?around this episode?because half of the episode showed Steve, Geoffrey, and Sonny repetitively picking up weathered old meteorite fragments over and over on the dry lake bed in AZ. But again, I did enjoy the episode and at the end when Steve and Geoffrey go to ASU to get the classification done on the meteorites that?they found on the dry lake bed. Thank you Meteorite Men.
?
Shawn Alan 
?
http://www.sendspace.com/file/nvnyl9

?


From balisterjames at att.net  Thu Feb 18 22:06:52 2010
From: balisterjames at att.net (James Balister)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:06:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fake pallasites
Message-ID: <956019.77238.qm@web180104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Are they still making fake pallasite's ?? 


From balisterjames at att.net  Thu Feb 18 22:12:40 2010
From: balisterjames at att.net (James Balister)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:12:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
Message-ID: <621078.93404.qm@web180114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

On the meteorite men Jeff and Steve showed a meteorite that was non magnetic and seemed to have no iron at all.? Anyone know if it had nickel in it?? How did they determin it was a meteorite?? Has anyone ever heard of wingstars?? Could that stone be a wingstar?? Wingstars have always interested me because they are oriented and look just like a meteorite but lack ni/fe.? Perhaps many meteorwrongs actually were meteorites!? 


From freequarks at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 22:32:02 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:32:02 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fake pallasites
In-Reply-To: <956019.77238.qm@web180104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <956019.77238.qm@web180104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a1002181932n9ea3f56t2c0be8ef36ff4b0b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello James,

Any chance you can elaborate on who is "they" and if the fake
pallasite you are alluding to is Shirokovsky?

We are a global list that generally appreciates more background with
questions? Otherwise we have to write followup replies in order to
help find an answer for you.

Thanks,

Martin




On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:06 PM, James Balister <balisterjames at att.net> wrote:
> Are they still making fake pallasite's ?
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From cdtucson at cox.net  Thu Feb 18 22:42:44 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:42:44 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
In-Reply-To: <621078.93404.qm@web180114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100218224244.REOSN.154463.imail@fed1rmwml46>

James,
 The link below shows everything you want to know about this meteorite. Says Moapa CM1 meteorite has 28% Fe and only 1.6% nickel
but has NO attraction to a magnet. very cool though. 

http://www.nevadameteorites.com/nevadameteorites/NEVADAMETEORITE_%26_SCIENCE_Ralph_Sonny_Clary.html

Carl.
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- James Balister <balisterjames at att.net> wrote: 
> On the meteorite men Jeff and Steve showed a meteorite that was non magnetic and seemed to have no iron at all.? Anyone know if it had nickel in it?? How did they determin it was a meteorite?? Has anyone ever heard of wingstars?? Could that stone be a wingstar?? Wingstars have always interested me because they are oriented and look just like a meteorite but lack ni/fe.? Perhaps many meteorwrongs actually were meteorites!? 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From azizhabibi at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 23:30:10 2010
From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:30:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] big nice 6 kilos fresh chondrite
Message-ID: <906854.47444.qm@web62007.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

hello all,

a very?great meteorite; enjoy, thumbreprinted annd flow lines
http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/


thanks
aziz habibi



      


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 08:51:05 2010
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:51:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] 4 stoney unclassified freebies
Message-ID: <496586.49207.qm@web57808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hello list. Just a heads up. I said I would have a nwa 869 freebie session after tucson. Well that fell thru. So instead I have 4 very nice complete unclassified stoney to givaway to?whomever chimes in first.Remember only 4,so hurry. Shipping will be on me.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From icedance at swbell.net  Fri Feb 19 13:55:24 2010
From: icedance at swbell.net (Don Edwards)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:55:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Millioners only" - Lorton on FleaBay
Message-ID: <111821.41995.qm@web81608.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Anyone with a few extra thousands of $$?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Space-Rock-For-the-millioner-only_W0QQitemZ250583694980QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a57f3be84


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Fri Feb 19 14:06:17 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:06:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 19,
	2010
Message-ID: <1226351610.333641266606377467.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_19_2010.html



From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 19 14:28:35 2010
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:28:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Millioners only"
Message-ID: <6310382.1266607715611.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Don and List,

I have sent an inquiry to the seller of the "Lorton" asking for proof that it is that meteorite. Let's see what happens next...

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536

-----Original Message-----
>From: Don Edwards <icedance at swbell.net>
>Sent: Feb 19, 2010 1:55 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] "Millioners only" - Lorton on FleaBay
>
>Anyone with a few extra thousands of $$?
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Space-Rock-For-the-millioner-only_W0QQitemZ250583694980QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a57f3be84
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 15:41:19 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:41:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dry Lake Bed Hunt versus Hugh Hefner: Wives,
	Girlfriends, Centerfolds
Message-ID: <719153.58642.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

Did Steve and Geoff find anything?

Just joking. The episode repeated later on in the evening, which was a very good plan.

10,000 years ago (8,000 BCE) moves their new impact discovery into the time of human occupation of North America. How big was the crater? 

It kind of makes me wonder if another piece of the asteroid did not hit somewhere else on the Earth at the same time. 

By the way, more of the YD impact layer is reported on over at 
http://www.cosmictusk.com
along with radioactive decay right above the impactite layer. 

good hunting, 
E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 19 15:41:58 2010
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:41:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] " Milloners only"  Seller response.
Message-ID: <15054532.1266612119090.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Dear Don, Gary and List,

Here is the response I received just now from the seller of the "Lorton". Verbatim.

Dir Buyer,

I own the medical building where the rock fe. The rock belong to 
me. We are not playing games. Your payment is secure by pypal 
buyer protection. Thank you. 


- systemswirefly


English must be a second, or third language...but, he says he owns the building....and the meteorite.

Count Deiro

-----Original Message-----
>From: Don Edwards <icedance at swbell.net>
>Sent: Feb 19, 2010 1:55 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] "Millioners only" - Lorton on FleaBay
>
>Anyone with a few extra thousands of $$?
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Space-Rock-For-the-millioner-only_W0QQitemZ250583694980QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a57f3be84
>______________________________________________
>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 19 15:50:38 2010
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:50:38 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] " Milloners only"  Seller response.
In-Reply-To: <15054532.1266612119090.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <15054532.1266612119090.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W224CAAFE2B09477DA8C2A5D2460@phx.gbl>


But he does not HAVE the meteorite, the Smithsonian does.? It's just a BS joke.

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:41:58 -0500
> From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
> To: icedance at swbell.net; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] " Milloners only" Seller response.
>
> Dear Don, Gary and List,
>
> Here is the response I received just now from the seller of the "Lorton". Verbatim.
>
> Dir Buyer,
>
> I own the medical building where the rock fe. The rock belong to
> me. We are not playing games. Your payment is secure by pypal
> buyer protection. Thank you.
>
>
> - systemswirefly
>
>
> English must be a second, or third language...but, he says he owns the building....and the meteorite.
>
> Count Deiro
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Don Edwards 
>>Sent: Feb 19, 2010 1:55 PM
>>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] "Millioners only" - Lorton on FleaBay
>>
>>Anyone with a few extra thousands of $$?
>>
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Space-Rock-For-the-millioner-only_W0QQitemZ250583694980QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a57f3be84
>>______________________________________________
>>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/

From cynapse at charter.net  Fri Feb 19 16:15:36 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:15:36 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] " Milloners only"  Seller response.
In-Reply-To: <SNT117-W224CAAFE2B09477DA8C2A5D2460@phx.gbl>
References: <15054532.1266612119090.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<SNT117-W224CAAFE2B09477DA8C2A5D2460@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <fqvtn5da8kobjskj4s0nit32lbg3lpfvp1@4ax.com>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:50:38 -0800, you wrote:

>
>But he does not HAVE the meteorite, the Smithsonian does.? It's just a BS joke.
>

The photo he is using belongs to the AP:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/18/tech/main6220188.shtml


From fujmon at mac.com  Fri Feb 19 16:22:02 2010
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:22:02 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] " Milloners only"  Seller response.
In-Reply-To: <fqvtn5da8kobjskj4s0nit32lbg3lpfvp1@4ax.com>
References: <15054532.1266612119090.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<SNT117-W224CAAFE2B09477DA8C2A5D2460@phx.gbl>
	<fqvtn5da8kobjskj4s0nit32lbg3lpfvp1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <F00B9309-623A-4001-A3FC-8F8B7EECCC5E@mac.com>

Aloha Darren, Count, Don, list,

So was this ebay listing posted by the property owner of the Dentist office, into which the Lorton meteorite crashed?  I thought it still resided at the Smithsonian, or is this person trying to sell something that is either not his, or has not yet been decided by a court of law?  And indeed he is using a press file photo of the meteorite.

He states that he will "donate the money from the Smithsonian to Haiti earthquake relief", but his listing states that 10% will go to Kids With Heart National Assn for Children's Heart Disorders, Inc.  So which one is it?

With only 26 feedbacks and a history of selling cell phones, this person may be less than reputable - or at the very least a shameless opportunist.  

Whatever the case, some of the claims this person makes on his listing is everything bad that can come from the public's perception of the value of meteorites.  My $0.02 ...

gary

On Feb 19, 2010, at 11:15 AM, Darren Garrison wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:50:38 -0800, you wrote:
> 
>> 
>> But he does not HAVE the meteorite, the Smithsonian does.  It's just a BS joke.
>> 
> 
> The photo he is using belongs to the AP:
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/18/tech/main6220188.shtml
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
(808) 640-9161







From meteoriteshow at free.fr  Fri Feb 19 16:23:19 2010
From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (meteoriteshow at free.fr)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:23:19 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday
Message-ID: <1266614599.4b7f0147e549f@imp.free.fr>

Dear Fellow Listees,

Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow

They include:

1- NWA 5611 (Prov.) - 13.2g slice - EUCRITE
SLICE #005, weighing 13.2g, dimensions ~72x52x2mm.
Partially fusion crusted on the edge, typical of a polymict eucrite with nice
inclusions
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330404538557

2- NWA 859 (Taza) IRON UNGR. - 2.5g oriented (A
OUTSTANDING ORIENTED INDIVIDUAL weighing 2.5g (A), dimensions ~15x12x6mm.
BEAUTIFUL SHAPE, WITH RELICS OF FUSION CRUST & ROLL OVER LIPS.
SEE PICTURE
(shipped in a display box)
STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330404538814

3- OUED EL HADJAR 7.1g endcut - WITNESSED FALL!
CRUSTED Endcut weighing 7.1g, dimensions ~23x18x13mm.
With FUSION CRUST, many sharply defined chondrules and iron flakes in fair grey
matrix.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330404539354

4- SAH 02500 L3 - 57g "MONOLITH"
"Monolith" weighing 57g, dimensions: 52x23x22mm.
Enduct glued on a plexiglass stand for display (no varnish).
Typical structure of SAH 02500 diplaying sharp chondrules in a fresh structure.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330404539634

5- SAHARAN OC batch #03/09 - 196.6g - 47 pces
Batch of 47 small individuals & fragments, total weight of 196.6g.
MOST OF THEM WITH FUSION CRUST & SOME OF THEM ORIENTED
(see pictures)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330404540333

6- ZAG H3-6 - 55.7g -10 Frags - WITNESSED FALL!
10 Fragments (ten pieces - see picture), total weight 55.7g.
Some of them with FUSION CRUST or SLICKENSIDE.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330404540536

Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!!
Kind regards,

Frederic Beroud
http://www.meteoriteshow.com
IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/)


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 16:41:19 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:41:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list]  " Milloners only" Seller response.
Message-ID: <295056.7021.qm@web113611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello Listers 
 
I emailed the individual on eBay asking.....
 
Hi i was wondering whats the weight of the meteorite and if you have more images that you have taken. Also how did you get the meteorite?
 
And the individuals response was......
 
"3.7 Lb. I am the owner of the medical building it feel on. No this is the only photo. It is in a container for it's own protection. Thank you." 
- systemswirefly
 
 
I guess the owner must have found more fragments of the Lorton meteorite because the last time I checked it weighed at 318g, making it less then a lbs.
 
I also called up the Smithsonian today and spoke with a women on the phone and she had told me that the meteorite is no longer in the possession of the Museum and that the meteorite is with the Lawyers that are dealing with the case. This might be true that the owner could be selling the meteorite, but he has no clue what hes doing.
 
Shawn Alan
 
 
 
meteorite-list] " Milloners only" Seller response.countdeiro at earthlink.net countdeiro at earthlink.net 
Fri Feb 19 15:41:58 EST 2010 


Previous message: [meteorite-list] Dry Lake Bed Hunt versus Hugh Hefner: Wives, Girlfriends, Centerfolds 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 
 
Dear Don, Gary and List, 

Here is the response I received just now from the seller of the "Lorton". Verbatim. 

Dir Buyer, 

I own the medical building where the rock fe. The rock belong to 
me. We are not playing games. Your payment is secure by pypal 
buyer protection. Thank you. 


- systemswirefly 


English must be a second, or third language...but, he says he owns the building....and the meteorite. 

Count Deiro 

-----Original Message----- 

>From: Don Edwards <icedance at swbell.net> 

>Sent: Feb 19, 2010 1:55 PM 

>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

>Subject: [meteorite-list] "Millioners only" - Lorton on FleaBay 

> 

>Anyone with a few extra thousands of $$? 

> 

>http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Space-Rock-For-the-millioner-only_W0QQitemZ250583694980QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a57f3be84 

>______________________________________________ 

>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 

>Meteorite-list mailing list 

>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 

>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 








Previous message: [meteorite-list] Dry Lake Bed Hunt versus Hugh Hefner: Wives, Girlfriends, Centerfolds 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 

More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list


From warnerem at astro.umd.edu  Fri Feb 19 16:30:04 2010
From: warnerem at astro.umd.edu (Elizabeth Warner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:30:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] " Milloners only"  Seller response.
In-Reply-To: <F00B9309-623A-4001-A3FC-8F8B7EECCC5E@mac.com>
References: <15054532.1266612119090.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	<SNT117-W224CAAFE2B09477DA8C2A5D2460@phx.gbl>	<fqvtn5da8kobjskj4s0nit32lbg3lpfvp1@4ax.com>
	<F00B9309-623A-4001-A3FC-8F8B7EECCC5E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F02DC.50009@astro.umd.edu>

The listing has been removed!!

Elizabeth

Gary Fujihara wrote:
> Aloha Darren, Count, Don, list,
> 
> So was this ebay listing posted by the property owner of the Dentist office, into which ...


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 16:55:35 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:55:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list]  " Milloners only" Seller response. WAS A HACK
Message-ID: <554220.14869.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello Listers 

The post of the Lorton meteorite on eBay was a hack into someones email account on ebay. eBay contacted me with this email. Also, I called up the Smithsonian today and spoke with a women on the phone and she had told me that the meteorite is no longer in the possession of the Museum and that the meteorite is with the Lawyers that are dealing with the case.

 eBay sent this message to.
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.  
 MC010 Account Security Communication Partner Warning -    
 
Hello,

Our records show that you recently contacted or received messages from michaelaltit9833 through eBay's messaging system. This account was recently found to have been accessed.

Our records show that you recently contacted or received messages from michaelaltit9833 through eBay's messaging system. This account was recently found to have been accessed by an unauthorized third party, who may have used the account in an attempt to defraud other members. 

We've taken action to restore this account to the original owner, but wanted to let you know to be suspicious of any communication you may have received from them. Nothing is wrong with your account at this time ? this message is just being sent as a precaution. If you have received any messages from michaelaltit9833 that appears suspicious, please feel free to forward them to us at spoof at ebay.com for review. 

-- Safety Tips --
-- Don't respond to the sender, through either eBay or your email provider, if the message is an offer to buy or sell an item. This type of offer may be fraudulent, and the transaction won't be covered by eBay protection programs. 

- - If you received what appears to be a Second Chance Offer for an item you recently bid on, and it appears in My Messages with the subject of "Message from eBay Member," it isn't a legitimate Second Chance Offer. 

Real Second Chance Offers appear in My Messages with a blue background and subject that says, "eBay Second Chance Offer for Item...". Always check for both the blue background in My Messages and the subject line of "eBay Second Chance Offer for Item?" when responding to a Second Chance Offer.

-- Never pay for your eBay items using instant cash wire transfer services such as Western Union or MoneyGram. It is against eBay's Safe Payments Policy for a seller to request payment with these methods, as these types of payments are unsafe if you're paying someone you don't know. 

-- If You've Already Sent Payment or Shipped an Item --
- - If you already sent payment for an off-eBay transaction, or if you're a seller who already shipped an item to a fraudulent buyer, we suggest you take the following steps:

-- Contact the payment service you used to make the purchase. If you paid by credit card, most card issuers provide consumer protections in instances of online fraud. 

- - If you sold and shipped an item to a fraudulent buyer, contact the carrier you used to ship the item. You might be able to receive additional assistance from the shipping service. If it was sent through the United States Postal Service, you may want to file mail fraud charges. Please go to: 
http://www.usps.gov/websites/depart/inspect/ 

- - Report the fraudulent buyer or seller both to law enforcement officials in your area, and in the area where the buyer or seller lives. To find law enforcement agencies by area, please visit:
http://www.usacops.com

When you contact a law enforcement officer, please explain the following:

- eBay will be happy to help with the officer's investigation. 
- For more information on how the officer can contact eBay, go to:
http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter/law_enforcement.html

-- You may also want to file a complaint with the Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3). The IC3 is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the National White Collar Crime Center. The IC3 will review complaints and refer information to the appropriate local, state, or federal agency. To file a complaint with the IC3, please go to: 
http://www.ic3.gov/

We also need you to take a few minutes to provide more information related to the transaction. The information you provide will allow us to work more effectively with law enforcement should an investigation occur. Please go to:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/isgw-fraud-non-ebay.html

Click the "Item Bought Outside of eBay" or "Item Sold Outside of eBay" link. 

Thanks for your cooperation.

Sincerely,

eBay Trust & Safety team


H19881
 



Shawn Alan
 
 




[meteorite-list] " Milloners only" Seller response.
Shawn Alan photophlow at yahoo.com 
Fri Feb 19 16:41:19 EST 2010 

Previous message: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Listers 

I emailed the individual on eBay asking..... 

Hi i was wondering whats the weight of the meteorite and if you have more images that you have taken. Also how did you get the meteorite? 

And the individuals response was...... 

"3.7 Lb. I am the owner of the medical building it feel on. No this is the only photo. It is in a container for it's own protection. Thank you." 
- systemswirefly 


I guess the owner must have found more fragments of the Lorton meteorite because the last time I checked it weighed at 318g, making it less then a lbs. 

I also called up the Smithsonian today and spoke with a women on the phone and she had told me that the meteorite is no longer in the possession of the Museum and that the meteorite is with the Lawyers that are dealing with the case. This might be true that the owner could be selling the meteorite, but he has no clue what hes doing. 

Shawn Alan 



meteorite-list] " Milloners only" Seller response.countdeiro at earthlink.net countdeiro at earthlink.net 
Fri Feb 19 15:41:58 EST 2010 


Previous message: [meteorite-list] Dry Lake Bed Hunt versus Hugh Hefner: Wives, Girlfriends, Centerfolds 
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Dear Don, Gary and List, 

Here is the response I received just now from the seller of the "Lorton". Verbatim. 

Dir Buyer, 

I own the medical building where the rock fe. The rock belong to 
me. We are not playing games. Your payment is secure by pypal 
buyer protection. Thank you. 


- systemswirefly 


English must be a second, or third language...but, he says he owns the building....and the meteorite. 

Count Deiro 

-----Original Message----- 


>From: Don Edwards <icedance at swbell.net> 



>Sent: Feb 19, 2010 1:55 PM 



>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 



>Subject: [meteorite-list] "Millioners only" - Lorton on FleaBay 



> 



>Anyone with a few extra thousands of $$? 



> 



>http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Space-Rock-For-the-millioner-only_W0QQitemZ250583694980QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a57f3be84 



>______________________________________________ 



>Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html 



>Meteorite-list mailing list 



>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 



>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 









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From pgspears at cox.net  Fri Feb 19 17:20:40 2010
From: pgspears at cox.net (Paul  G. Spears)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:20:40 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Microscope search
Message-ID: <4272A598B19041288E98656C5E0D26BB@GrandpasNetbook>

Hi, all:
My eyes need a little help seeing the finer details of metal, mineral, 
shock, and crystals in meteorite slices.  A microscope would be helpful, and 
I surmise that many of the scores of scopes out there could be useful.  Has 
anyone been particularly impressed by his/her scope's features and functions 
when used for this purpose?

Any tips, or cautions, for selecting a starter microscope will be 
appreciated.  I would be willing to pay more for a scope with features 
everyone feels are essential, and would consider new or used, if anyone has 
recently upgraded and has a reliable unit that needs a new home.

My wife, Grace, and I had an unbelievably great experience at the Tucson 
show!  It was our first time there and, if you have never attended before, 
we encourage you to be there at your first opportunity as it is an 
experience you will never forget.
Regards,
Paul G. Spears
IMCA #3272
 



From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Fri Feb 19 17:33:51 2010
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:33:51 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Microscope search
Message-ID: <13e12.7a8dcb05.38b06bcf@aol.com>

Hi Paul,  I love to talk about microscopes.  In fact I just  bought an 
other one today.

In May of 2008 I did a little write up for  Meteorite Times titled "The 
right microscope for you"  It does not go into  which brand is better than 
others or the like but rather, what type of  microscope should you be looking 
for.

It sounds like you will be best  served by a stereo scope and you are in 
luck.  Those are plentifully on  eBay in all price ranges and as a result of 
the frequent examples ending every  day, I see some killer deals.

Check out my article.  It has  micrographs using different type of scopes 
so you can se what you would like to  accomplish.

http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2008/may/index.htm

This  link should take you right to the article.

Tom

In a message dated 2/19/2010 3:20:50 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
pgspears at cox.net writes:
Hi, all:
My eyes need a little help seeing the  finer details of metal, mineral, 
shock, and crystals in meteorite  slices.  A microscope would be helpful, 
and 
I surmise that many of the  scores of scopes out there could be useful.  
Has 
anyone been  particularly impressed by his/her scope's features and 
functions 
when used  for this purpose?

Any tips, or cautions, for selecting a starter  microscope will be 
appreciated.  I would be willing to pay more for a  scope with features 
everyone feels are essential, and would consider new or  used, if anyone 
has 
recently upgraded and has a reliable unit that needs a  new home.

My wife, Grace, and I had an unbelievably great experience at  the Tucson 
show!  It was our first time there and, if you have never  attended before, 
we encourage you to be there at your first opportunity as  it is an 
experience you will never forget.
Regards,
Paul G.  Spears
IMCA  #3272


______________________________________________
Visit the  Archives at  
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list  mailing  list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Fri Feb 19 17:45:54 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:45:54 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] " Milloners only" Seller response. WAS A HACK
In-Reply-To: <554220.14869.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <554220.14869.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F14A2.1070205@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi List,

Rare screenshot of the Lorton ebay auction: 
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1219094173#!/photo.php?pid=30597633&id=1219094173&fbid=1230775729059

You too can now have this likeness of the original Lorton meteorite. 
Make it your desktop wallpaper, print it out and hang it on your wall, 
or just share it with your friends. Print it and fold it into a paper 
airplane and pretend it's really the Lorton meteorite flying through the 
air. Tape some string to it and take it for a walk. The possibilities 
are endless and only limited by your imagination. DISCLAIMER: For fun 
only. Do not try this at home, beware or morons, check both ways before 
listing bullshit auctions, use only as directed, harmful if swallowed, 
do not puncture or incinerate, keep out of reach of idiots, do not stop, 
pass GO and do not collect $115,000 for something you do not own.

By the way you can check out the article here where I'm keeping 
everything updated regarding the Lorton meteorite.
http://www.meteoritesusa.com/meteorite-news/lorton-meteorite-fall/

Enjoy...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


On 2/19/2010 1:55 PM, Shawn Alan wrote:
> Hello Listers
>
> The post of the Lorton meteorite on eBay was a hack into someones email account on ebay. eBay contacted me with this email. Also, I called up the Smithsonian today and spoke with a women on the phone and she had told me that the meteorite is no longer in the possession of the Museum and that the meteorite is with the Lawyers that are dealing with the case.
>
>   eBay sent this message to.
> Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.
>   MC010 Account Security Communication Partner Warning -
>
> Hello,
>
> Our records show that you recently contacted or received messages from michaelaltit9833 through eBay's messaging system. This account was recently found to have been accessed.
>
> Our records show that you recently contacted or received messages from michaelaltit9833 through eBay's messaging system. This account was recently found to have been accessed by an unauthorized third party, who may have used the account in an attempt to defraud other members.
>
> We've taken action to restore this account to the original owner, but wanted to let you know to be suspicious of any communication you may have received from them. Nothing is wrong with your account at this time ? this message is just being sent as a precaution. If you have received any messages from michaelaltit9833 that appears suspicious, please feel free to forward them to us at spoof at ebay.com for review.
>
> -- Safety Tips --
> -- Don't respond to the sender, through either eBay or your email provider, if the message is an offer to buy or sell an item. This type of offer may be fraudulent, and the transaction won't be covered by eBay protection programs.
>
> - - If you received what appears to be a Second Chance Offer for an item you recently bid on, and it appears in My Messages with the subject of "Message from eBay Member," it isn't a legitimate Second Chance Offer.
>
> Real Second Chance Offers appear in My Messages with a blue background and subject that says, "eBay Second Chance Offer for Item...". Always check for both the blue background in My Messages and the subject line of "eBay Second Chance Offer for Item?" when responding to a Second Chance Offer.
>
> -- Never pay for your eBay items using instant cash wire transfer services such as Western Union or MoneyGram. It is against eBay's Safe Payments Policy for a seller to request payment with these methods, as these types of payments are unsafe if you're paying someone you don't know.
>
> -- If You've Already Sent Payment or Shipped an Item --
> - - If you already sent payment for an off-eBay transaction, or if you're a seller who already shipped an item to a fraudulent buyer, we suggest you take the following steps:
>
> -- Contact the payment service you used to make the purchase. If you paid by credit card, most card issuers provide consumer protections in instances of online fraud.
>
> - - If you sold and shipped an item to a fraudulent buyer, contact the carrier you used to ship the item. You might be able to receive additional assistance from the shipping service. If it was sent through the United States Postal Service, you may want to file mail fraud charges. Please go to:
> http://www.usps.gov/websites/depart/inspect/
>
> - - Report the fraudulent buyer or seller both to law enforcement officials in your area, and in the area where the buyer or seller lives. To find law enforcement agencies by area, please visit:
> http://www.usacops.com
>
> When you contact a law enforcement officer, please explain the following:
>
> - eBay will be happy to help with the officer's investigation.
> - For more information on how the officer can contact eBay, go to:
> http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter/law_enforcement.html
>
> -- You may also want to file a complaint with the Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3). The IC3 is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the National White Collar Crime Center. The IC3 will review complaints and refer information to the appropriate local, state, or federal agency. To file a complaint with the IC3, please go to:
> http://www.ic3.gov/
>
> We also need you to take a few minutes to provide more information related to the transaction. The information you provide will allow us to work more effectively with law enforcement should an investigation occur. Please go to:
> http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/isgw-fraud-non-ebay.html
>
> Click the "Item Bought Outside of eBay" or "Item Sold Outside of eBay" link.
>
> Thanks for your cooperation.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> eBay Trust&  Safety team
>
>
> H19881
>
>
>
>
> Shawn Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [meteorite-list] " Milloners only" Seller response.
> Shawn Alan photophlow at yahoo.com
> Fri Feb 19 16:41:19 EST 2010
>
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Listers
>
> I emailed the individual on eBay asking.....
>
> Hi i was wondering whats the weight of the meteorite and if you have more images that you have taken. Also how did you get the meteorite?
>
> And the individuals response was......
>
> "3.7 Lb. I am the owner of the medical building it feel on. No this is the only photo. It is in a container for it's own protection. Thank you."
> - systemswirefly
>
>
> I guess the owner must have found more fragments of the Lorton meteorite because the last time I checked it weighed at 318g, making it less then a lbs.
>
> I also called up the Smithsonian today and spoke with a women on the phone and she had told me that the meteorite is no longer in the possession of the Museum and that the meteorite is with the Lawyers that are dealing with the case. This might be true that the owner could be selling the meteorite, but he has no clue what hes doing.
>
> Shawn Alan
>
>
>
> meteorite-list] " Milloners only" Seller response.countdeiro at earthlink.net countdeiro at earthlink.net
> Fri Feb 19 15:41:58 EST 2010
>
>
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Dry Lake Bed Hunt versus Hugh Hefner: Wives, Girlfriends, Centerfolds
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
> Dear Don, Gary and List,
>
> Here is the response I received just now from the seller of the "Lorton". Verbatim.
>
> Dir Buyer,
>
> I own the medical building where the rock fe. The rock belong to
> me. We are not playing games. Your payment is secure by pypal
> buyer protection. Thank you.
>
>
> - systemswirefly
>
>
> English must be a second, or third language...but, he says he owns the building....and the meteorite.
>
> Count Deiro
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
>    
>> From: Don Edwards<icedance at swbell.net>
>>      
>
>
>    
>> Sent: Feb 19, 2010 1:55 PM
>>      
>
>
>    
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>      
>
>
>    
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] "Millioners only" - Lorton on FleaBay
>>      
>
>
>    
>>      
>
>
>    
>> Anyone with a few extra thousands of $$?
>>      
>
>
>    
>>      
>
>
>    
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Space-Rock-For-the-millioner-only_W0QQitemZ250583694980QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a57f3be84
>>      
>
>
>    
>> ______________________________________________
>>      
>
>
>    
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>      
>
>
>    
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>      
>
>
>    
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>      
>
>
>    
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>      
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Dry Lake Bed Hunt versus Hugh Hefner: Wives, Girlfriends, Centerfolds
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
> More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>    


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Fri Feb 19 19:56:33 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:56:33 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky Psuedopallastites
Message-ID: <4B7F3341.6010009@cox.net>

Dark Matter wrote in "Fake pallasites" at
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2010-February/061171.html

"Any chance you can elaborate on who is "they"
and if the fake pallasite you are alluding to is
Shirokovsky?"

By the way, is anyone selling pieces of the Shirokovsky
Psuedopallastite?

The only fragment that could find for sale is at
"Shirokovsky Pallasite 1,16 gms" at http://tiny.cc/SchirokovskyPallasite and
http://tiny.cc/ShirokovskyPallasite2  or
http://www.online-schmuck.biz/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=638&osCsid=02c4a2d3b6f48098f34f2a18b1d096c7
http://www.online-schmuck.biz/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=636&osCsid=02c4a2d3b6f48098f34f2a18b1d096c7
where the seller is still under the delusion that it
is a real meteorite.

Even though it is a fake, it seems like would be fun to have
a piece in one's collections given the way "minics" a type
of meteorite that normally lacks any meteorwrongs that can
be mistaken for it.

Yours,

Paul H.






From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Feb 19 20:06:22 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:06:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bill Gordon, Father of Arecibo Observatory,
	Dies at 92
Message-ID: <201002200106.o1K16MgZ001833@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



February 18, 2010

Contact:
Blaine Friedlander
Cornell University
+1 (607) 254-8093; Cell: (607) 351-2610
bpf2 at cornell.edu

BILL GORDON, FATHER OF ARECIBO OBSERVATORY, DIES AT 92

Bill Gordon, the engineer who conceived, built and managed the Arecibo
Observatory -- arguably the world's largest ear aimed toward the
universe -- located in Arecibo, Puerto Rico, died Feb. 16 in Ithaca,
N.Y. He was 92 and died of natural causes.

Gordon was serving on Cornell University's engineering faculty when,
in the late 1950s, he began designing a very large radar system
capable of studying the properties of the Earth's ionosphere out to
distances of several thousand miles, a region of the Earth's
atmosphere of great interest in the post-Sputnik era.

Gordon realized that such a telescope could also contribute
significantly to the study of the solar system and to the then
relatively new field of radio astronomy. Taking a technical gamble, he
and his Advanced Research Project Agency sponsors designed a telescope
with a 1,000-foot fixed spherical reflector and a movable focusing
system that is suspended above the reflector.

The resulting structure was a marvel of civil engineering. It was so
large that the Empire State Building could fit sideways and the
Washington Monument could easily fit standing from the dish bottom to
its focal point. The observatory was inaugurated in 1963 when the
first measurements of the properties of the ionosphere were made.

Within a year of opening, the telescope was used to determine the
planet Mercury's rotation period and, after radio pulsars -- rotating
neutron stars -- were discovered in 1967, played a prominent role in
studying the properties of these unique objects. The first binary
pulsar was discovered using Arecibo in 1974, leading to the
confirmation of the existence of gravitational radiation and the 1993
Nobel Prize for its discoverers.

The telescope itself held a prominent role in the film 'Contact'
(1997) and the title role in the James Bond film 'GoldenEye' (1995).

At Arecibo's 40th Anniversary in 2003, Gordon said: "When we were
talking about building [the telescope] back in the late '50s, we were
told by eminent authorities it couldn't be done. We were in the
position of trying to do something that was impossible, and it took a
lot of guts and we were young enough that we didn't know we couldn't
do it. It took five years from idea to dedication, and that is short.
But we were in the right place at the right time and had the right
idea and the right preparation. We had no rules or precedents."

The observatory, now operated by Cornell through the National
Astronomy and Ionosphere Center for the National Science Foundation,
has enjoyed two major equipment upgrades since opening, and it remains
a unique and vital scientific tool -- as today it searches for
asteroids and comets aimed at the Earth.

Gordon served as the observatory's director from 1960 to 1965. Using
the radar signals returned by charged particles, he studied the
temperature, density, chemical composition and other properties of the
ionosphere, which he called "both the gateway to space and our first
line of defense against the deadly radiation streaming toward us from
the Sun and other stars."

William E. Gordon was born Jan. 8, 1918, in Paterson, N.J. Gordon
earned a bachelor's degree from Montclair State Teacher's College, a
master's degree from New York University and his doctorate at Cornell.

During World War II, Gordon served in the Air Force as captain and
electronics engineer; and worked with the National Defense Research
Committee on the effects of weather on radar range. He came to Cornell
in 1948. In 1950, Gordon published (with Henry G. Booker) the theory
of radio wave scattering in the troposphere.

In 1966 Gordon moved to Rice University, where he served as a
professor, dean, provost and vice president, retiring in 1985. He is
one of only two Rice faculty to be honored with the title
Distinguished Emeritus Professor.

Gordon was a member of the National Academy of Sciences and the
National Academy of Engineering; a foreign associate of the
Engineering Academy of Japan; and a fellow of the American Academy of
Arts and Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of
Science, American Geophysical Union and Institute of Electrical and
Electronics Engineers.

Among many international honors, Gordon received the 1966 Balth van
der Pol Gold Medal, the 1984 Arctowski Gold Medal, a 1985 USSR Academy
of Sciences Medal for distinguished contributions in international
geophysical programs and the Centennial Medal of the University of
Sofia in 1988.

In 1941, he married Elva Freile. She died in 2002. Their survivors
include their two children, Larry and Nancy; four grandchildren,
Matthew and Amanda Gordon, and George and Elizabeth Ward; and three
great-grandsons: Jacob, Kyle and Andrew Gordon. In 2003, after the
deaths of their respective spouses, he married Mary Elizabeth
Bolgiano, a friend of long standing.



From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net  Fri Feb 19 20:07:27 2010
From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:07:27 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] from Bernd as he could not post to list
Message-ID: <1BEF371ECFE84BD29497E7E97E7A5947@DFZN8X81>

> Hello Paul, Tom, and List,
>
> I can full-heartedly second Tom's comments but would like to add that
> apart from opting for a *stereo microscope* for convenient "seeing", it
> is also vital to purchase or acquire a microscope that allows you to view
> meteorite thin sections in cross-polarized light!
>
> As soon as you have become a microscope "addict" of those messengers
> from space, you will wish to go one or several steps further and enjoy all
> these beauties in their multi-color glory!
>
> The microscope I own is one of the less expensive examples but the images
> you can take with it are stunning. And my digital camera is just one of
> those
> rather inexpensive supermarket "models" you can purchase for ca. 50-100$.
>
> In the USA, it was Michael Blood who offered these microscopes a few years
> ago. Should you want to buy one of these from Michael, you will also need
> the
> so-called "Tobin Adapter" which will allow you to view thin sections in
> x-pol.
> light -- a real treat!
>
> To let you know what I am talking about, I will send you one one my
> favorite
> thin section pics in x-pol. light in a private mail. This pic was taken
> with my
> MBS-10 Stereo Microscope and my "supermarket 5 Megapix" digital camera.
>
> .. wishing you good luck searching
> for an appropriate microscope,
>
> Bernd (in Germany)
> 



From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Fri Feb 19 20:16:07 2010
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 02:16:07 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT:   Looking for H.  McLean
Message-ID: <017901cab1ca$47da00e0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Hello,

has anyone a working email-address of Howard McLean?

Many thanks!
Martin



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Feb 19 20:17:36 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:17:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: February 15-19, 2010
Message-ID: <201002200117.o1K1Ha0R003116@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
February 15-19, 2010

o Capri Chasma (15 February 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100215a

o Holden Crater Fan (16 February 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100216a

o Candor Chasma (17 February 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100217a

o Olympica Fossae (18 February 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100218a

o Juventae Chasma (19 February 2010)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20100219a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 





From midwest at meteorman.org  Fri Feb 19 21:27:47 2010
From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:27:47 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky Psuedopallastites
References: <4B7F3341.6010009@cox.net>
Message-ID: <8D1EB5C23336431FA415DAACB144F089@basement>

Hi Paul,

I thought it was fun to have a piece of the best Palawrong on the Planet:)


There is  link on this page to a .pdf file about the Shirokovsky
http://www.meteorman.org/Best_Palawrong.htm


I have been working on this for years to find the best meteorwrongs on the 
Planet,
it just goes to show that there are some good fakes out there.
http://www.meteorman.org/Bestwrongs_index.htm




Tim Heitz


Midwest Meteorites
http://www.meteorman.org



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Heinrich" <oxytropidoceras at cox.net>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 6:56 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky Psuedopallastites


> Dark Matter wrote in "Fake pallasites" at
> http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2010-February/061171.html
>
> "Any chance you can elaborate on who is "they"
> and if the fake pallasite you are alluding to is
> Shirokovsky?"
>
> By the way, is anyone selling pieces of the Shirokovsky
> Psuedopallastite?
>
> The only fragment that could find for sale is at
> "Shirokovsky Pallasite 1,16 gms" at http://tiny.cc/SchirokovskyPallasite 
> and
> http://tiny.cc/ShirokovskyPallasite2  or
> http://www.online-schmuck.biz/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=638&osCsid=02c4a2d3b6f48098f34f2a18b1d096c7
> http://www.online-schmuck.biz/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=636&osCsid=02c4a2d3b6f48098f34f2a18b1d096c7
> where the seller is still under the delusion that it
> is a real meteorite.
>
> Even though it is a fake, it seems like would be fun to have
> a piece in one's collections given the way "minics" a type
> of meteorite that normally lacks any meteorwrongs that can
> be mistaken for it.
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul H.
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 21:39:57 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:39:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Microscope search
In-Reply-To: <4272A598B19041288E98656C5E0D26BB@GrandpasNetbook>
Message-ID: <209846.45142.qm@web113605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hey Paul.

A seemingly simple question with literally hundreds of answers. I just purchased a microscope, but I think my needs were possibly very different than many of the people on this list.

Here's a few questions to ask yourself before you can narrow down the microscope that is right for you.

How much can you budget for the microscope?

Do you only want to view individuals and slices at lower power to see the details you mention better, or do you want to view thin sections in polarized light at high magnification?

Do you want to do photography of your meteorites?

Do you want to view things other than meteorites, ie. biological specimens?

If you simply want to view your specimens magnified and have no plans to view or photograph thin sections, you can find a reasonably good 10x - 30x stereo microscope for about $100. For another $50 you can find a VGA webcam that can be mounted where one of the eyepieces goes and view your specimens on your computer screen.

Of course if you want to have a microscope that can "do everything" you're going to have to have a very large budget. But, as you can see on Tom's page, he has multiple microscopes to do what he needs, so a simple $100 stereo microscope might be enough to get your feet wet and help solidify the direction you want to go if, I mean when you purchase your next microscope!

I can tell you more about the microscope I just purchased and why I got what I did privately if you are interested.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


--- On Fri, 2/19/10, Paul G. Spears <pgspears at cox.net> wrote:

> From: Paul G. Spears <pgspears at cox.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Microscope search
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 3:20 PM
> Hi, all:
> My eyes need a little help seeing the finer details of
> metal, mineral, shock, and crystals in meteorite
> slices.? A microscope would be helpful, and I surmise
> that many of the scores of scopes out there could be
> useful.? Has anyone been particularly impressed by
> his/her scope's features and functions when used for this
> purpose?
> 
> Any tips, or cautions, for selecting a starter microscope
> will be appreciated.? I would be willing to pay more
> for a scope with features everyone feels are essential, and
> would consider new or used, if anyone has recently upgraded
> and has a reliable unit that needs a new home.
> 
> My wife, Grace, and I had an unbelievably great experience
> at the Tucson show!? It was our first time there and,
> if you have never attended before, we encourage you to be
> there at your first opportunity as it is an experience you
> will never forget.
> Regards,
> Paul G. Spears
> IMCA #3272
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From magellon.ken at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 21:55:43 2010
From: magellon.ken at gmail.com (Ken Newton)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:55:43 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
In-Reply-To: <621078.93404.qm@web180114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <621078.93404.qm@web180114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c626e3e81002191855y30912875r21f68cda9c9db4c5@mail.gmail.com>

>Perhaps many meteorwrongs actually were meteorites!

I seem to encounter misguided individuals who tenuously believe such
dribble on regular basis. Russell T Wing is the exemplar of
meteorwrong 'wingnuts' just as Harvey Nininger is to meteorite
enthusiasts. Here is an example from Wing's book:"This entire
experience seemed incredible and unbelievable. How could a small
collection of stones - not over 100 - and over half of them picked up
out of my rock garden in 1969, produce 25 earth-type quartz meteorites
when never before had a quartz meteorite been known!  ... But in this
investigation, the unthinkable thing seems to be the common thing. And
again, after thinking things over, my unbelievable collection of
quartz meteorites needed to balance it off; they simply could not be
alone. There must also be many other kinds of meteorites here if my
quartz ones were authentic."

 And Wing goes on to 'discover' 'authentic' meteoritic petrified wood
and meteoritic fossils, etc. The wingstars were everywhere! All you
have to do is look!  Yikes!

Can anyone explain this dogged type thinking? That the owner's rock
HAS TO BE a meteorite despite the fact that every expert contacted has
told them differently. I just don't understand the thinking but I want
to.

kn

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:12 PM, James Balister <balisterjames at att.net> wrote:
> On the meteorite men Jeff and Steve showed a meteorite that was non magnetic and seemed to have no iron at all.? Anyone know if it had nickel in it?? How did they determin it was a meteorite?? Has anyone ever heard of wingstars?? Could that stone be a wingstar?? Wingstars have always interested me because they are oriented and look just like a meteorite but lack ni/fe.? Perhaps many meteorwrongs actually were meteorites!
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From carothersdl at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 22:24:20 2010
From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:24:20 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
References: <621078.93404.qm@web180114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<c626e3e81002191855y30912875r21f68cda9c9db4c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EBC85684FC674AB0A3CE726CC37B6429@your291etg47cr>

Ken

You ask:  "Can anyone explain this dogged type thinking? That the owner's 
rock HAS TO BE a meteorite despite the fact that every expert contacted has 
told them differently. I just don't understand the thinking but I want
to."

I can only reply that people who think like this have rocks in their heads.

Regards,

Dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken Newton" <magellon.ken at gmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites


> >Perhaps many meteorwrongs actually were meteorites!
>
> I seem to encounter misguided individuals who tenuously believe such
> dribble on regular basis. Russell T Wing is the exemplar of
> meteorwrong 'wingnuts' just as Harvey Nininger is to meteorite
> enthusiasts. Here is an example from Wing's book:"This entire
> experience seemed incredible and unbelievable. How could a small
> collection of stones - not over 100 - and over half of them picked up
> out of my rock garden in 1969, produce 25 earth-type quartz meteorites
> when never before had a quartz meteorite been known!  ... But in this
> investigation, the unthinkable thing seems to be the common thing. And
> again, after thinking things over, my unbelievable collection of
> quartz meteorites needed to balance it off; they simply could not be
> alone. There must also be many other kinds of meteorites here if my
> quartz ones were authentic."
>
> And Wing goes on to 'discover' 'authentic' meteoritic petrified wood
> and meteoritic fossils, etc. The wingstars were everywhere! All you
> have to do is look!  Yikes!
>
> Can anyone explain this dogged type thinking? That the owner's rock
> HAS TO BE a meteorite despite the fact that every expert contacted has
> told them differently. I just don't understand the thinking but I want
> to.
>
> kn
>
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:12 PM, James Balister <balisterjames at att.net> 
> wrote:
>> On the meteorite men Jeff and Steve showed a meteorite that was non 
>> magnetic and seemed to have no iron at all. Anyone know if it had nickel 
>> in it? How did they determin it was a meteorite? Has anyone ever heard of 
>> wingstars? Could that stone be a wingstar? Wingstars have always 
>> interested me because they are oriented and look just like a meteorite 
>> but lack ni/fe. Perhaps many meteorwrongs actually were meteorites!
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Fri Feb 19 22:24:29 2010
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:24:29 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Microscope search
Message-ID: <1a378.8a8abc0.38b0afed@aol.com>

Hi list, Richard is absolutely right when he  said.  "so a simple $100 
stereo microscope might be enough to get your feet  wet and help solidify the 
direction you want to go if, I mean when you purchase  your next microscope!"


He touches on an aspect that meteorite and  microscope enthusiasts have 
known since our first scope.  It is more  interesting close up.  Any specimen 
in your collection is much more  interesting when you can observe the 
subtleties that make it different from the  rest.

If you care to look at the micrographs of Angrites in my gallery  you will 
know what I am saying.

I might also add.  I have  inexpensive some Xpol scopes that are beautiful 
to look at thin sections  in.  I don't take micrographs with these scopes 
but for observation they  are wonderful and even with the setup I use to take 
micrographs on, the view  first hand is 10X better than a picture.  I would 
even say that the  observational view in one of these inexpensive scopes is 
better than the best  micrograph I can produce.


Tom


In a message dated 2/19/2010  7:40:05 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
damoclid at yahoo.com writes:
Hey  Paul.

A seemingly simple question with literally hundreds of answers. I  just 
purchased a microscope, but I think my needs were possibly very different  than 
many of the people on this list.

Here's a few questions to ask  yourself before you can narrow down the 
microscope that is right for  you.

How much can you budget for the microscope?

Do you only want  to view individuals and slices at lower power to see the 
details you mention  better, or do you want to view thin sections in 
polarized light at high  magnification?

Do you want to do photography of your  meteorites?

Do you want to view things other than meteorites, ie.  biological specimens?

If you simply want to view your specimens magnified  and have no plans to 
view or photograph thin sections, you can find a reasonably  good 10x - 30x 
stereo microscope for about $100. For another $50 you can find a  VGA webcam 
that can be mounted where one of the eyepieces goes and view your  specimens 
on your computer screen.

Of course if you want to have a  microscope that can "do everything" you're 
going to have to have a very large  budget. But, as you can see on Tom's 
page, he has multiple microscopes to do  what he needs, so a simple $100 
stereo microscope might be enough to get your  feet wet and help solidify the 
direction you want to go if, I mean when you  purchase your next microscope!

I can tell you more about the microscope I  just purchased and why I got 
what I did privately if you are  interested.

--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA  #1081


--- On Fri, 2/19/10, Paul G. Spears <pgspears at cox.net>  wrote:

> From: Paul G. Spears <pgspears at cox.net>
>  Subject: [meteorite-list] Microscope search
> To:  meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Friday, February 19, 2010,  3:20 PM
> Hi, all:
> My eyes need a little help seeing the finer  details of
> metal, mineral, shock, and crystals in meteorite
>  slices.  A microscope would be helpful, and I surmise
> that many of  the scores of scopes out there could be
> useful.  Has anyone been  particularly impressed by
> his/her scope's features and functions when  used for this
> purpose?
> 
> Any tips, or cautions, for  selecting a starter microscope
> will be appreciated.  I would be  willing to pay more
> for a scope with features everyone feels are  essential, and
> would consider new or used, if anyone has recently  upgraded
> and has a reliable unit that needs a new home.
> 
>  My wife, Grace, and I had an unbelievably great experience
> at the Tucson  show!  It was our first time there and,
> if you have never attended  before, we encourage you to be
> there at your first opportunity as it is  an experience you
> will never forget.
> Regards,
> Paul G.  Spears
> IMCA #3272
> 
> 
>  ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at  
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>  Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>  http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>  



______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at  
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list  mailing  list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list   



From balisterjames at att.net  Fri Feb 19 22:29:56 2010
From: balisterjames at att.net (James Balister)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:29:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
In-Reply-To: <c626e3e81002191855y30912875r21f68cda9c9db4c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <621078.93404.qm@web180114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<c626e3e81002191855y30912875r21f68cda9c9db4c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <855649.56695.qm@web180101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

What I am trying to say is that you can not be sure if a rock is or is not a meteorite simply because a magnet will not stick to it!? Not to forget that a rare earth magnet has a stronger pull then a simple magnet.? I am not talking about having it checked out as to content.? I am talking about finding one with a magnet.? I use a metal detecter, and sight when hunting.? Then cut them open to look for nickel.? But the magnet test now seems up in the air as far as a quick ID.?? I wonder how many rocks I just passed over simply because the magnet did not stick!



----- Original Message ----
> From: Ken Newton <magellon.ken at gmail.com>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Fri, February 19, 2010 8:55:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
> 
> >Perhaps many meteorwrongs actually were meteorites!

I seem to 
> encounter misguided individuals who tenuously believe such
dribble on regular 
> basis. Russell T Wing is the exemplar of
meteorwrong 'wingnuts' just as 
> Harvey Nininger is to meteorite
enthusiasts. Here is an example from Wing's 
> book:"This entire
experience seemed incredible and unbelievable. How could a 
> small
collection of stones - not over 100 - and over half of them picked 
> up
out of my rock garden in 1969, produce 25 earth-type quartz 
> meteorites
when never before had a quartz meteorite been known!? ... But 
> in this
investigation, the unthinkable thing seems to be the common thing. 
> And
again, after thinking things over, my unbelievable collection 
> of
quartz meteorites needed to balance it off; they simply could not 
> be
alone. There must also be many other kinds of meteorites here if 
> my
quartz ones were authentic."

And Wing goes on to 'discover' 
> 'authentic' meteoritic petrified wood
and meteoritic fossils, etc. The 
> wingstars were everywhere! All you
have to do is look!? 
> Yikes!

Can anyone explain this dogged type thinking? That the owner's 
> rock
HAS TO BE a meteorite despite the fact that every expert contacted 
> has
told them differently. I just don't understand the thinking but I 
> want
to.

kn

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:12 PM, James Balister 
> <> href="mailto:balisterjames at att.net">balisterjames at att.net> wrote:
> 
> On the meteorite men Jeff and Steve showed a meteorite that was non magnetic and 
> seemed to have no iron at all.? Anyone know if it had nickel in it?? How did 
> they determin it was a meteorite?? Has anyone ever heard of wingstars?? Could 
> that stone be a wingstar?? Wingstars have always interested me because they are 
> oriented and look just like a meteorite but lack ni/fe.? Perhaps many 
> meteorwrongs actually were meteorites!
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> 
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> > ymailto="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" 
> href="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> 
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
______________________________________________
Visit 
> the Archives at > href="http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html" target=_blank 
> >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list 
> mailing list
> href="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> href="http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list" target=_blank 
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From freequarks at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 23:43:45 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:43:45 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky Psuedopallastites
In-Reply-To: <8D1EB5C23336431FA415DAACB144F089@basement>
References: <4B7F3341.6010009@cox.net>
	<8D1EB5C23336431FA415DAACB144F089@basement>
Message-ID: <822da19a1002192043o48ed583cs3f5c473ef8105250@mail.gmail.com>

Here's another reference if you have a copy of Meteorite Mag:

The Shirokovsky object: Meteorite, terrestrial, or none of the above?
(Meteorite, Aug. 2003, Vol. 9, No. 3, pp. 5-6).

Best,

Martin



On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Timothy Heitz <midwest at meteorman.org> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> I thought it was fun to have a piece of the best Palawrong on the Planet:)
>
>
> There is ?link on this page to a .pdf file about the Shirokovsky
> http://www.meteorman.org/Best_Palawrong.htm
>
>
> I have been working on this for years to find the best meteorwrongs on the
> Planet,
> it just goes to show that there are some good fakes out there.
> http://www.meteorman.org/Bestwrongs_index.htm
>
>
>
>
> Tim Heitz
>
>
> Midwest Meteorites
> http://www.meteorman.org
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Heinrich" <oxytropidoceras at cox.net>
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 6:56 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky Psuedopallastites
>
>
>> Dark Matter wrote in "Fake pallasites" at
>> http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2010-February/061171.html
>>
>> "Any chance you can elaborate on who is "they"
>> and if the fake pallasite you are alluding to is
>> Shirokovsky?"
>>
>> By the way, is anyone selling pieces of the Shirokovsky
>> Psuedopallastite?
>>
>> The only fragment that could find for sale is at
>> "Shirokovsky Pallasite 1,16 gms" at http://tiny.cc/SchirokovskyPallasite
>> and
>> http://tiny.cc/ShirokovskyPallasite2 ?or
>>
>> http://www.online-schmuck.biz/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=638&osCsid=02c4a2d3b6f48098f34f2a18b1d096c7
>>
>> http://www.online-schmuck.biz/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=636&osCsid=02c4a2d3b6f48098f34f2a18b1d096c7
>> where the seller is still under the delusion that it
>> is a real meteorite.
>>
>> Even though it is a fake, it seems like would be fun to have
>> a piece in one's collections given the way "minics" a type
>> of meteorite that normally lacks any meteorwrongs that can
>> be mistaken for it.
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Paul H.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Sat Feb 20 00:09:28 2010
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:09:28 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
References: <621078.93404.qm@web180114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><c626e3e81002191855y30912875r21f68cda9c9db4c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<EBC85684FC674AB0A3CE726CC37B6429@your291etg47cr>
Message-ID: <3179513171CE4EEC909BAE39637FE213@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, All,

The ultimate in this kind of crazy thinking is the case of
Randolph Kirkpatrick. He was the assistant keeper of lower
invertebrates at the British Natural History Museum from
1886 until his retirement in 1927 and made several valid
scientific discoveries. However, he had one immensely
crazy notion.

In 1912, he published a book entitled "The Nummulosphere"
which put forward the theory that the entire Earth was formed
from the accumulation of the calcium shells of forams, like
the Nummulites, small creatures like the ones he'd spent a
lifetime studying.

He believed everything geological -- basalts, red seafloor clays,
marble, granites, mountains -- everything was formed from
these little one-celled shelled organisms. It's crazy enough to
think the entire Earth was made out of them, but even better,
he apparently believed that the Earth GREW from a beginning
speck of water and nummulites into the planet of today, built
by the nummulites the way corals build a reef.

Russell T. Wing, like Randolph Kirkpatrick, has one immensely
crazy idea. The key word there is ONE. What we have here are
monomaniacs. They do not "tenuously believe" their crazy notion.
For them, it is a burning luminous concept that commands belief.

Monomaniacs are so obsessed with their one idea that it
overpowers every other thought and corrupts their judgment
until they believe it explains everything. I have no doubt that
if Wing got worse and worse, he would end up believing that the
Earth was made of accumulated Wingstars just as Kirkpatrick
believed the Earth was made of accumulated Nummulites!

PS: I haven't read Russell Wing, so I don't know that he doesn't
already think that. If the Earth is covered with a huge number
of fresh Wingstars (like in his garden), why not? What better
explanation? The Earth is just a self-gravitating sphere of
accumulating Wingstars -- a Wingstarosphere! Someone should
suggest it to him. Would it be fun to push him over the edge?
Assuming he's not already there, that is.


Sterling K. Webb
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can read about Kirkpatrick here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ddpCtPz8D78C&pg=PA139&dq=NUMMULOSPHERE&ei=e2p_S6XMIKHWNJ3WzOcP&cd=5#v=onepage&q=NUMMULOSPHERE&f=false
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dave carothers" <carothersdl at gmail.com>
To: "Ken Newton" <magellon.ken at gmail.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites


> Ken
>
> You ask:  "Can anyone explain this dogged type thinking? That the 
> owner's rock HAS TO BE a meteorite despite the fact that every expert 
> contacted has told them differently. I just don't understand the 
> thinking but I want
> to."
>
> I can only reply that people who think like this have rocks in their 
> heads.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ken Newton" <magellon.ken at gmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
>
>
>> >Perhaps many meteorwrongs actually were meteorites!
>>
>> I seem to encounter misguided individuals who tenuously believe such
>> dribble on regular basis. Russell T Wing is the exemplar of
>> meteorwrong 'wingnuts' just as Harvey Nininger is to meteorite
>> enthusiasts. Here is an example from Wing's book:"This entire
>> experience seemed incredible and unbelievable. How could a small
>> collection of stones - not over 100 - and over half of them picked up
>> out of my rock garden in 1969, produce 25 earth-type quartz 
>> meteorites
>> when never before had a quartz meteorite been known!  ... But in this
>> investigation, the unthinkable thing seems to be the common thing. 
>> And
>> again, after thinking things over, my unbelievable collection of
>> quartz meteorites needed to balance it off; they simply could not be
>> alone. There must also be many other kinds of meteorites here if my
>> quartz ones were authentic."
>>
>> And Wing goes on to 'discover' 'authentic' meteoritic petrified wood
>> and meteoritic fossils, etc. The wingstars were everywhere! All you
>> have to do is look!  Yikes!
>>
>> Can anyone explain this dogged type thinking? That the owner's rock
>> HAS TO BE a meteorite despite the fact that every expert contacted 
>> has
>> told them differently. I just don't understand the thinking but I 
>> want
>> to.
>>
>> kn
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:12 PM, James Balister 
>> <balisterjames at att.net> wrote:
>>> On the meteorite men Jeff and Steve showed a meteorite that was non 
>>> magnetic and seemed to have no iron at all. Anyone know if it had 
>>> nickel in it? How did they determin it was a meteorite? Has anyone 
>>> ever heard of wingstars? Could that stone be a wingstar? Wingstars 
>>> have always interested me because they are oriented and look just 
>>> like a meteorite but lack ni/fe. Perhaps many meteorwrongs actually 
>>> were meteorites!
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at 
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From cdtucson at cox.net  Sat Feb 20 00:45:29 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 0:45:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
In-Reply-To: <855649.56695.qm@web180101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100220004529.HL6FB.789907.imail@fed1rmwml45>

James,
I think we were with you on this.
The truth is that saying meteorites stick to a magnet is generally correct but, there are exceptions to every rule. 
If you read Tony Irving's web site on Mars he is very clear that there are meteorites that we have yet to recognize. 
Included in the list are types that most classifiers would not even give a second look at. see web site linked here;

http://www.imca.cc/mars/martian-meteorites.htm


Tony mentions a number of rover discovered types of rocks on Mars including; Sedimentary rocks with hematite blueberries and lots of jarosite. 
Other igneous rocks like Adirondack which I think are andesites.
Highly altered rocks like Mer sites on Mars 
and shergottites with hydrothermal alteration.
None of these would be expected to stick to any magnet and the same thing goes for most if not all lunar meteorites. So, I never throw away anything without taking a very close look at it at home. 
And if you get serious about it you would not use a magnet at all. According to Tony the use of a magnet on any meteorite ruins the ability to even preform certain tests they like to do. Instead he recommends removal of a small piece of the meteorite for testing with a magnet so as not to contaminate the specimen. Obviously playing the numbers you will find more with a magnet but some can be found without a magnet. Fusion crust and morphology are important indicators of a space rock. 
I would highly recommend reading Tony's web site . Another must read is Randy Korotev's Lunar site. both are amazing.
Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- James Balister <balisterjames at att.net> wrote: 
> What I am trying to say is that you can not be sure if a rock is or is not a meteorite simply because a magnet will not stick to it!? Not to forget that a rare earth magnet has a stronger pull then a simple magnet.? I am not talking about having it checked out as to content.? I am talking about finding one with a magnet.? I use a metal detecter, and sight when hunting.? Then cut them open to look for nickel.? But the magnet test now seems up in the air as far as a quick ID.?? I wonder how many rocks I just passed over simply because the magnet did not stick!
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Ken Newton <magellon.ken at gmail.com>
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Sent: Fri, February 19, 2010 8:55:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
> > 
> > >Perhaps many meteorwrongs actually were meteorites!
> 
> I seem to 
> > encounter misguided individuals who tenuously believe such
> dribble on regular 
> > basis. Russell T Wing is the exemplar of
> meteorwrong 'wingnuts' just as 
> > Harvey Nininger is to meteorite
> enthusiasts. Here is an example from Wing's 
> > book:"This entire
> experience seemed incredible and unbelievable. How could a 
> > small
> collection of stones - not over 100 - and over half of them picked 
> > up
> out of my rock garden in 1969, produce 25 earth-type quartz 
> > meteorites
> when never before had a quartz meteorite been known!? ... But 
> > in this
> investigation, the unthinkable thing seems to be the common thing. 
> > And
> again, after thinking things over, my unbelievable collection 
> > of
> quartz meteorites needed to balance it off; they simply could not 
> > be
> alone. There must also be many other kinds of meteorites here if 
> > my
> quartz ones were authentic."
> 
> And Wing goes on to 'discover' 
> > 'authentic' meteoritic petrified wood
> and meteoritic fossils, etc. The 
> > wingstars were everywhere! All you
> have to do is look!? 
> > Yikes!
> 
> Can anyone explain this dogged type thinking? That the owner's 
> > rock
> HAS TO BE a meteorite despite the fact that every expert contacted 
> > has
> told them differently. I just don't understand the thinking but I 
> > want
> to.
> 
> kn
> 
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:12 PM, James Balister 
> > <> href="mailto:balisterjames at att.net">balisterjames at att.net> wrote:
> > 
> > On the meteorite men Jeff and Steve showed a meteorite that was non magnetic and 
> > seemed to have no iron at all.? Anyone know if it had nickel in it?? How did 
> > they determin it was a meteorite?? Has anyone ever heard of wingstars?? Could 
> > that stone be a wingstar?? Wingstars have always interested me because they are 
> > oriented and look just like a meteorite but lack ni/fe.? Perhaps many 
> > meteorwrongs actually were meteorites!
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at 
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > 
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > ymailto="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" 
> > href="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > 
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> ______________________________________________
> Visit 
> > the Archives at > href="http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html" target=_blank 
> > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list 
> > mailing list
> > href="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > href="http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list" target=_blank 
> > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Sat Feb 20 04:49:52 2010
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:49:52 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
In-Reply-To: <3179513171CE4EEC909BAE39637FE213@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <621078.93404.qm@web180114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><c626e3e81002191855y30912875r21f68cda9c9db4c5@mail.gmail.com>,
	<EBC85684FC674AB0A3CE726CC37B6429@your291etg47cr>,
	<3179513171CE4EEC909BAE39637FE213@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W593166E7F376CA932BCA0FA2450@phx.gbl>


Good ole schizophrenia. How do you deal with it when it comes knocking? What do you say to a madman that insists he has a meteorite or tektite in hand when he's staring you in the eye at your front door raging in your face?
 
It's very uncomfortable having to tell someone with a dozen pieces of plastic they found in their field after seeing lights drop them there, that they are only parts of old toys, even when you show them the identical rubber tractor toy wheels on a toy in your collection, from the 50's that must have washed out of a small garbage dump... gasp... 
 
After all the cards and flyers I've circulated they all know where I live so I must invite them in. The price we pay for science :)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ----------------------------------------
> From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net
> To: carothersdl at gmail.com; magellon.ken at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:09:28 -0600
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
>
> Hi, All,
>
> The ultimate in this kind of crazy thinking is the case of
> Randolph Kirkpatrick. He was the assistant keeper of lower
> invertebrates at the British Natural History Museum from
> 1886 until his retirement in 1927 and made several valid
> scientific discoveries. However, he had one immensely
> crazy notion.
>
> In 1912, he published a book entitled "The Nummulosphere"
> which put forward the theory that the entire Earth was formed
> from the accumulation of the calcium shells of forams, like
> the Nummulites, small creatures like the ones he'd spent a
> lifetime studying.
>
> He believed everything geological -- basalts, red seafloor clays,
> marble, granites, mountains -- everything was formed from
> these little one-celled shelled organisms. It's crazy enough to
> think the entire Earth was made out of them, but even better,
> he apparently believed that the Earth GREW from a beginning
> speck of water and nummulites into the planet of today, built
> by the nummulites the way corals build a reef.
>
> Russell T. Wing, like Randolph Kirkpatrick, has one immensely
> crazy idea. The key word there is ONE. What we have here are
> monomaniacs. They do not "tenuously believe" their crazy notion.
> For them, it is a burning luminous concept that commands belief.
>
> Monomaniacs are so obsessed with their one idea that it
> overpowers every other thought and corrupts their judgment
> until they believe it explains everything. I have no doubt that
> if Wing got worse and worse, he would end up believing that the
> Earth was made of accumulated Wingstars just as Kirkpatrick
> believed the Earth was made of accumulated Nummulites!
>
> PS: I haven't read Russell Wing, so I don't know that he doesn't
> already think that. If the Earth is covered with a huge number
> of fresh Wingstars (like in his garden), why not? What better
> explanation? The Earth is just a self-gravitating sphere of
> accumulating Wingstars -- a Wingstarosphere! Someone should
> suggest it to him. Would it be fun to push him over the edge?
> Assuming he's not already there, that is.
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can read about Kirkpatrick here:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=ddpCtPz8D78C&pg=PA139&dq=NUMMULOSPHERE&ei=e2p_S6XMIKHWNJ3WzOcP&cd=5#v=onepage&q=NUMMULOSPHERE&f=false
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dave carothers" 
> To: "Ken Newton" ;
> 
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
>
>
>> Ken
>>
>> You ask: "Can anyone explain this dogged type thinking? That the
>> owner's rock HAS TO BE a meteorite despite the fact that every expert
>> contacted has told them differently. I just don't understand the
>> thinking but I want
>> to."
>>
>> I can only reply that people who think like this have rocks in their
>> heads.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ken Newton" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Non magnetic meteorites
>>
>>
>>>>Perhaps many meteorwrongs actually were meteorites!
>>>
>>> I seem to encounter misguided individuals who tenuously believe such
>>> dribble on regular basis. Russell T Wing is the exemplar of
>>> meteorwrong 'wingnuts' just as Harvey Nininger is to meteorite
>>> enthusiasts. Here is an example from Wing's book:"This entire
>>> experience seemed incredible and unbelievable. How could a small
>>> collection of stones - not over 100 - and over half of them picked up
>>> out of my rock garden in 1969, produce 25 earth-type quartz
>>> meteorites
>>> when never before had a quartz meteorite been known! ... But in this
>>> investigation, the unthinkable thing seems to be the common thing.
>>> And
>>> again, after thinking things over, my unbelievable collection of
>>> quartz meteorites needed to balance it off; they simply could not be
>>> alone. There must also be many other kinds of meteorites here if my
>>> quartz ones were authentic."
>>>
>>> And Wing goes on to 'discover' 'authentic' meteoritic petrified wood
>>> and meteoritic fossils, etc. The wingstars were everywhere! All you
>>> have to do is look! Yikes!
>>>
>>> Can anyone explain this dogged type thinking? That the owner's rock
>>> HAS TO BE a meteorite despite the fact that every expert contacted
>>> has
>>> told them differently. I just don't understand the thinking but I
>>> want
>>> to.
>>>
>>> kn
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:12 PM, James Balister
>>> wrote:
>>>> On the meteorite men Jeff and Steve showed a meteorite that was non
>>>> magnetic and seemed to have no iron at all. Anyone know if it had
>>>> nickel in it? How did they determin it was a meteorite? Has anyone
>>>> ever heard of wingstars? Could that stone be a wingstar? Wingstars
>>>> have always interested me because they are oriented and look just
>>>> like a meteorite but lack ni/fe. Perhaps many meteorwrongs actually
>>>> were meteorites!
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/

From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Sat Feb 20 08:47:15 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 05:47:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 20,
	2010
Message-ID: <917554521.415821266673635482.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_20_2010.html



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 09:44:20 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:44:20 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Lookup not working?
Message-ID: <e51421551002200644u76293eava8d044b559c489d0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List,

Is anyone else having problems loading the Met Bulletin lookup page?
I've been trying to access it since yesterday afternoon and it's not
loading.

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php

Best regards,

MikeG


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From cynapse at charter.net  Sat Feb 20 10:16:42 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:16:42 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Prometheus unround
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002200644u76293eava8d044b559c489d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e51421551002200644u76293eava8d044b559c489d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36vvn556p6mkionnrdquuhjqala04vr3ev@4ax.com>

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/19/dr-tongues-3d-house-of-prometheus/


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Sat Feb 20 10:18:14 2010
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:18:14 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Lookup not working?
Message-ID: <COL108-W5142BD549FB15B899C228E9B450@phx.gbl>


Yeah, me too. I was just about to fling this old computer out of the window until I saw your post! :D Good. Now I don't need to make a special trip to the library today.

Carl2
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/

From mary.kashuba at verizon.net  Sat Feb 20 09:59:06 2010
From: mary.kashuba at verizon.net (Kashuba)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 06:59:06 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Lookup not working?
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002200644u76293eava8d044b559c489d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e51421551002200644u76293eava8d044b559c489d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001cab23d$40249950$c06dcbf0$@kashuba@verizon.net>

Mike,

It seems to have gone down yesterday about 2:30 PM Pacific.  

- John

John Kashuba
Ontario, California


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic
Stone & Ironworks
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:44 AM
To: Meteorite List
Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Lookup not working?

Hi List,

Is anyone else having problems loading the Met Bulletin lookup page?
I've been trying to access it since yesterday afternoon and it's not
loading.

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php

Best regards,

MikeG


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From edeckert at triad.rr.com  Sat Feb 20 11:10:00 2010
From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:10:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Lookup not working?
References: <e51421551002200644u76293eava8d044b559c489d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001cab23d$40249950$c06dcbf0$@kashuba@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <005201cab247$27ad2040$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain>

All,

I have found the lookup to be very slow, but it still works... 
eventually...

Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kashuba" <mary.kashuba at verizon.net>
To: "'Galactic Stone & Ironworks'" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>; "'Meteorite 
List'" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Lookup not working?


> Mike,
>
> It seems to have gone down yesterday about 2:30 PM Pacific.
>
> - John
>
> John Kashuba
> Ontario, California
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic
> Stone & Ironworks
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:44 AM
> To: Meteorite List
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Lookup not working?
>
> Hi List,
>
> Is anyone else having problems loading the Met Bulletin lookup page?
> I've been trying to access it since yesterday afternoon and it's not
> loading.
>
> http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
> Database version: 6.14390
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ 





E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
Database version: 6.14390
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 11:11:07 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:11:07 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Emergency Meteorite Fire Sale - Free $50
	Store Credit to the Next Buyer
Message-ID: <e51421551002200811h31dd7c6btf2bac80832cb04e4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Listees!

I need to make a sale, fast.  So the next person to spend $40 or more
in my store will receive a FREE $50 STORE CREDIT - good on this
current order or a future order.  Use the credit on anything in the
store.  This offer is only good for next customer to order after I
post this notice.

You may combine this offer with your 25% Met-List discount!

So, use the coupon code "metlist" at checkout and you will receive 25%
OFF your entire order - then, if you order if $40 or more, you will
also receive the free $50 store credit.  How cool is that?

This offer is not going to last long - you snooze, you lose.

I will contact the lucky buyer via email to give them the store credit.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask - mike at galactic-stone.com

Thanks for looking and happy huntings!

MikeG

http://www.galactic-stone.com


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sat Feb 20 11:15:23 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:15:23 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Lookup not working?
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002200644u76293eava8d044b559c489d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e51421551002200644u76293eava8d044b559c489d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B800A9B.3030002@meteoritesusa.com>

Perhaps there are a multitude of would be meteorite hunters searching 
the database for meteorites to hunt in their area and the server may not 
have been able to handle the load. ;)



On 2/20/2010 6:44 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> Is anyone else having problems loading the Met Bulletin lookup page?
> I've been trying to access it since yesterday afternoon and it's not
> loading.
>
> http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>    


From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Sat Feb 20 10:46:54 2010
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:46:54 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Lookup not working?
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W5142BD549FB15B899C228E9B450@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W5142BD549FB15B899C228E9B450@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B8003EE.5080309@usgs.gov>

USGS server facilities are undergoing electrical maintenance this 
weekend.  There could be outages through Sunday morning.

Jeff

On 2010-02-20 10:18 AM, Carl 's wrote:
> Yeah, me too. I was just about to fling this old computer out of the window until I saw your post! :D Good. Now I don't need to make a special trip to the library today.
>
> Carl2
>   		 	   		
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From p.marmet at sunrise.ch  Sat Feb 20 13:23:35 2010
From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:23:35 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay-auction: Almahata Sitta, Nakhla, Vigarano,
	Ibbenbueren, Ella Island, ...
Message-ID: <871799a21002201023w55dfd3dlfac3bb34621c7231@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

I have 12 very rare meteorites ending in about one day:

http://shop.ebay.com/pema9/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=


Thank you,
Peter

Peter Marmet - IMCA #2747
Bern, Switzerland
http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 13:50:30 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:50:30 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Lookup not working? (and Daule
	Fall Ecuador 2008)
Message-ID: <e51421551002201050j547f6165n27f98a3e32030f78@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the heads up on why the bulletin is not working properly.

I thought I was finally going crazy from that Murchison-laced Coca
Cola I drank about a month ago. LOL

Best regards,

MikeG

PS - did anyone else notice that a "new" fall was approved in the
Bulletin recently?  The fall is Daule from Ecuador.  It was a L5
chondrite fall on March 23, 2008.  I don't recall this one being
discussed on the List.  How come we didn't hear much about this fall
until now?  I don't recall it being  on Mike Jensen's fall page
either.  Was it just me and I was under a rock and missed the chatter
about it?


On 2/20/10, Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> wrote:
> USGS server facilities are undergoing electrical maintenance this
> weekend.  There could be outages through Sunday morning.
>
> Jeff
>
> On 2010-02-20 10:18 AM, Carl 's wrote:
>> Yeah, me too. I was just about to fling this old computer out of the
>> window until I saw your post! :D Good. Now I don't need to make a special
>> trip to the library today.
>>
>> Carl2
>>   		 	   		
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From photophlow at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 14:10:12 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:10:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] 238U/235U Variations in Meteorites: Extant 247Cm
	and Implications for Pb-Pb Dating
Message-ID: <746999.36052.qm@web113609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello Listers,
?
I found an article today on the topic of Pb-Pb dating and how it might be flawed. Down below is the abstract and the article and also a link to the pdf file which also has graphs and the reference section. 
?
Shawn Alan
?
http://www.geo.umass.edu/petrology/PetSem/Brennecka%20et%20al_Science_2010_UPb.pdf
?
?
?
                                Abstract
The 238U/235U isotope ratio has long been considered invariant in meteoritic materials (equal to 137.88). This assumption is a cornerstone of the high-precision lead-lead dates that define the absolute age of the solar system. Calcium-aluminum?rich inclusions (CAIs) of the Allende meteorite display variable 238U/235U ratios, ranging between 137.409 ? 0.039 and 137.885 ? 0.009. This range implies substantial uncertainties in the ages that were previously determined by lead-lead dating of CAIs, which may be overestimated by several million years. The correlation of uranium isotope ratios with proxies for curium/uranium (that is, thorium/uranium and neodymium/uranium) provides strong evidence that the observed variations of 238U/235U in CAIs were produced by the decay of extant curium-247 to uranium-235 in the early solar system, with an initial 247Cm/235U ratio of approximately 1.1 ? 10?4 to 2.4 ? 10?4. 
?
?
?
?
?
Meteorites can provide a wealth of information 
about the formation and evolution 
of the solar system. In chondrite 
meteorites, calcium-aluminum?rich inclusions 
(CAIs) represent the first solids to condense from 
the cooling protoplanetary disk during the birth 
of the solar system (1); therefore, the ages of 
CAIs are generally considered to date the solar 
system?sorigin (2?4). High-precision Pb-Pb dating 
studies, which rely on a known ratio of parent 
U isotopes, assume that the 238U/235U ratio is 
invariant in meteoritic material (equal to 137.88) 
(5). Uranium isotope variations in meteorites may 
be produced by many mechanisms, including 
the decay of extant 247Cm to 235U, nucleosynthetic 
anomalies in U isotopes, or fractionation of 
U isotopes during chemical reactions, as recently 
observed on Earth (6, 7). Any or all of these mechanisms 
may play some role in 238U/235U variability 
in early solar system materials; however, the existence 
and effect of 247Cm on the 238U/235U ratio can 
be studied using geochemical proxies for Cm. 
247Cm is only created in certain types of supernovae 
during r-process nucleosynthesis. It 
decays to 235U with a half-life of 15.6 million years 
(My) (8?13). If 247Cm was present during the 
formation of the solar system, it would be detected 
by variations of 238U/235U in ancient meteoritic 
materials in which the original solar 
system Cm/U ratio may have been substantially 
fractionated by processes associated with the 
formation of the meteoritic materials. The CAIs 
in chondritic meteorites are likely to be such materials, 
because many of them experienced ele

1School of Earth and Space Exploration, Arizona State University, 
Tempe, AZ 85287 USA. 2Institut fur Geowissenschaften, 
Goethe-Universit?t, Frankfurt, Germany. 3Senckenberg Forschungsinstitut 
und Naturmuseum, Frankfurt, Germany. 4Department 
of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Arizona State 
University, Tempe, AZ 85287, USA. 
*To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: 
brennecka at asu.edu 
?Present address: Institut f?r Geology und Mineralogie, Universit?t 
zu K?ln, Cologne, Germany. 
mental fractionation during condensation and 
evaporation processes that were involved in their 
formation and because Cm is more refractory 
than U (14). 
Quantification of the abundance of extant 
247Cm has the potential to provide new constraints 
on the origin of short-lived radionuclides 
in the early solar system. If the 247Cm in the early 
solar system was predominantly inherited from 
galactic chemical evolution (13), then it should 
be possible for us to determine the time interval 
of free decay (D) between the last r-process nucleosynthetic 
event and the formation of the solar 
system (5, 1 , 15, 16). Supposed claims of large 
variations in the 238U/235U ratio that were caused 
by the decay of 247Cm (8, 9) were refuted in subsequent 
studies (5, 10, 1 , 17). Here we present 
high-precision 238U/235U ratios obtained from 
13 CAIs of the Allende meteorite to quantify the 
amount of 247Cm present in the early solar sys-
Fig. 1. 238U/235Uisotope 
values for the samples of 
this study. The box represents 
the measured value 

and analytical precision 
of replicate analyses of 
20? to 100?parts per 
billion solutions of the 
SRM950a standard. Error 
bars are calculated as 2 
times the standard deviation 
(2SD) of multiple 
runs of each sample, when 
possible. In samples with 
extremely limited uranium, 
for which fewer than three 
runs were possible, the 
reported errors are conservatively 
represented by 
the long-term reproducibilities 
(2SD) based on 
multiple runs of SRM950a 
measured over the course 
of this study at the same concentration as the sample. 

Downloaded from www.sciencemag.org on January 26, 2010 

www.sciencemag.org SCIENCE VOL 327 22 JANUARY 2010 449 

REPORTS 
Fig. 2. (A) 232Th/238Uand 
(B) 144Nd/238U ratios plotted 
versus 235U/238Uratios,the 
reciprocal values of our 
measured 238U/235Uratios. 
The gray dashed lines represent 
the 2SD errors on 
the best-fit line (solid 
black). Errors on the y-axis 
data are T2SD; x-axis error 
bars are T5% of the de

termined value of the elemental 
ratio. 
group II CAIs, suggests a complex condensation 
history involving fractional condensation 
(21, 22). The four CAIs of this study that have 
the highest Nd/U and Th/U ratios (as well as 
the lowest 238U/235U ratios) are all classified as 
group II CAIs by their REE patterns (Fig. 3). 
Because of the lower condensation temperature 
of U relative to Nd and Th (23), the fractional 
condensation history that resulted in the characteristic 
group II REE pattern in these objects 
is likely to have produced the relatively high 
Nd/U and Th/U ratios. 
The correlation of both Th/U and Nd/U with 
U isotope ratios in the CAIs indicates that the 
238U/235U variations do not arise from nucleosynthetic 
anomalies or U isotope fractionation, 
neither of which easily give rise to such a trend, 
and instead provide evidence for the presence 
of extant 247Cm in the early solar system. Under 
this interpretation, deviations from the best-fit 
lines in Fig. 2 could be caused by heterogeneity 
of 238U/235U in the solar nebula, Th and Nd 
acting as imperfect proxies for Cm, or 238U/235U 
fractionation following Allende CAI formation, 
possibly from variable redox during secondary 
alteration processes (7). 
In contrast to our findings, a recent study did 
not detect deviations in the 238U/235U ratio among 
a variety of bulk meteorite samples, including 
Allende and Murchison (1 ). Given the reported 
precision of the study?s U isotope analysis, the 
144Nd/238U ratios should have been sufficient to 
reveal detectable variations in 238U/235U from 
247Cm decay. Although the 238U/235U value of bulk 
Murchison samples agrees within error with our 
observed values, those for bulk Allende differ 
well outside of reported errors. The reason for 
this disagreement is unclear at this time. 
The initial 247Cm/235U ratio in the early solar 
system can be estimated by using the slopes of 
the best-fit lines in Fig. 2 (1 ). UsingThandNd 
as proxies for Cm, we estimate the initial solar 
system 247Cm/235U ratio to be 2.4 ? 10-4 T 0.6 ? 
10-4 and 1.1 ? 10-4 T 0.2 ? 10-4, respectively. 
The difference between the estimates may be 
due to slight differences in the geochemical behavior 
of Th and Nd or possibly because of uncertainties 
in the assumed solar system Nd/U or 
Th/U ratios. Nevertheless, these values are, on 
average, higher than the upper limit derived previously 
using analyses of the U isotope com-

Fig. 3. REE patterns of four group II CAIs analyzed in this study, normalized to CI chondrites. All other 
CAI samples studied here (except 3531-D, for which the REE abundances were not measured) display 
flat REE patterns, indicating chondritic relative abundances of these elements (light gray lines). 
Fig.4.Ageadjustmentrequiredforsamplesfoundnottohavea238U/235Uvalueof137.88,asassumedinthePb-Pbageequation(Eq.1).TheshadedregionrepresentstherangeofUisotopecompositionsreportedinthisstudy,andtheasterisksrepresentthespecific238U/235Uratiosmeasuredinthesesamples.
Downloaded from www.sciencemag.org on January 26, 2010 

positions of bulk chondritic meteorites (1 ). Our 
estimates are, however, in agreement with the 
upper limit of ~4 ? 10-3 that was determined previously 
based on analyses of CAIs (12). If 247Cm 
is inherited from galactic chemical evolution, 
the range of initial solar system 247Cm/235U 
ratios estimated here translates to D ~ 110 to 
140 My. This value is similar to, but more 
precise than, previous estimates of D based on 
the inferred initial solar system abundances of 
other r-process?only radionuclides such as 244Pu 
and 129I, but does not match the significantly 
shorter estimate of D (~30 My) derived from the 
initial abundance of 182Hf (16). However, because 
182Hf was overabundant in the early solar 
system compared with its expected abundance 
from galactic chemical evolution, it may have 
been injected into the presolar molecular cloud or 
the solar nebula by a nearby supernova event [for 
example, (13)]. 
450 22 JANUARY 2010 VOL 327 SCIENCE www.sciencemag.org 

REPORTS

Our findings also have implications for precise 
dating of early events in the history of the 
solar system. The Pb-Pb age equation (Eq. 1) 
has been used for decades to calculate the absolute 
ages of both meteoritic and terrestrial materials 
(24). This equation assumes that 238U/235U 
is invariant at any given time, and that the present-
day value is 137.88. 
206Pb* 235Uel235 t - 11 el235 t - 1 
??
206Pb* 238Uel238 t - 1 137:88 el238 t - 1 
?1? 
Here, l is the decay constant for the specific 
isotope and t is the age. Any deviation from this 
assumed 238U/235U would cause miscalculation 
in the determined Pb-Pb age of a sample. A 
difference of up to 3.5 per mil (?) implies that a 
correction of up to ?5 My would be required if 
the Pb-Pb ages of these CAIs were obtained 
using the previously assumed 238U/235Uvalue 
(Fig. 4). 
Because 238U/235U variations in solar system 
materials are not restricted to CAIs, this requirement 
may extend to high-precision Pb-Pb dating 
of other materials as well. It is possible, however, 
that the 238U/235U values of bulk chondrites 
are controlled to a substantial degree by CAIs, 
which may be heterogeneously distributed at the 
scale at which these analyses were made. 
The Pb-Pb dating technique is the only absolute 
dating technique able to resolve age differences 
of <1 My in materials formed in the 
early solar system. Whereas the full range of 
238U/235U ratios reported here would result in an 
overestimation of the ages of these CAIs by up 
to 5 My, the largest excesses (>3.5?)in 235U 
occur in the group II CAIs that appear to have 
experienced the largest Cm/U fractionation. 
For non?group II CAIs, the age overestimation 
is =1 My. The apparent discrepancies between 
absolute Pb-Pb ages and relative (for example, 
26Al-26Mg, 53Mn-53Cr, and 182Hf-182W) ages 
(2, 4, 25, 26) may therefore place limits on the 
uncertainty of the age of the solar system. 



From fcressy at prodigy.net  Sat Feb 20 14:04:48 2010
From: fcressy at prodigy.net (Frank Cressy)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:04:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Lookup not working? (and Daule
	Fall Ecuador 2008)
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002201050j547f6165n27f98a3e32030f78@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e51421551002201050j547f6165n27f98a3e32030f78@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <963075.7223.qm@web80208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Mike and List members,

This was announced back in November.? Mike Farmer has a write-up with photos on his website.? Look under his "collection" link and click on Duale.? The link to his site is:

http://www.meteoritehunter.com/

Enjoy,

Frank


----- Original Message ----
From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
To: Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov>
Cc: Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, February 20, 2010 10:50:30 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Lookup not working? (and Daule Fall Ecuador 2008)

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the heads up on why the bulletin is not working properly.

I thought I was finally going crazy from that Murchison-laced Coca
Cola I drank about a month ago. LOL

Best regards,

MikeG

PS - did anyone else notice that a "new" fall was approved in the
Bulletin recently?? The fall is Daule from Ecuador.? It was a L5
chondrite fall on March 23, 2008.? I don't recall this one being
discussed on the List.? How come we didn't hear much about this fall
until now?? I don't recall it being? on Mike Jensen's fall page
either.? Was it just me and I was under a rock and missed the chatter
about it?


On 2/20/10, Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> wrote:
> USGS server facilities are undergoing electrical maintenance this
> weekend.? There could be outages through Sunday morning.
>
> Jeff
>
> On 2010-02-20 10:18 AM, Carl 's wrote:
>> Yeah, me too. I was just about to fling this old computer out of the
>> window until I saw your post! :D Good. Now I don't need to make a special
>> trip to the library today.
>>
>> Carl2
>>? ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? 
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman? ? ? phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey? ? ? ? ? fax:? (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 14:22:48 2010
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:22:48 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper discovered one year ago... yesterday!
Message-ID: <80659e1a1002201122q283ccea2qad20843b77d0abc4@mail.gmail.com>

Just thought I'd mention it,

http://www.mr-meteorite.net/abouthopper.htm
-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 07:45:21 2010
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 04:45:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] freebies
Message-ID: <913645.61250.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi list. Just want to let all know the freebies are all gone. Thanks tho for chiming in.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 15:33:47 2010
From: whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com (Dave Myers)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:33:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002201050j547f6165n27f98a3e32030f78@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <592814.91533.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi list,

I have never been lucky enough to see a bolide, or fire-ball.

But I have in my life seen 3 that were bright green, 2 That made a  loud hissing or swishing noise. But this past november, I seen a very
Bright white one start directly over head and head south east, as the bright light burnt out, for a few tenths of a second, the object just glowed bright red, went dim, and glowed about half as bright again, no tail.

I would think this object made it through the lowest levels of the atmosphere. Anyone ever had an encounter like that!

Thanks
Dave




      


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 15:52:42 2010
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:52:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
In-Reply-To: <592814.91533.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <19177.82142.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I saw a really nice one on the way to the recent MAG meeting. I first thought it was for 10 seconds, but more close to the time for me to tell my wife "oh my god, look at that one!" then it went out.
I tried to find out more about it, but had no luck.
That was the biggest and brightest one I think I have ever seen. Kinda nice early in the morning on the way to a meteorite meeting.

Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites


--- On Sat, 2/20/10, Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
> To: "Jeff Grossman" <jgrossman at usgs.gov>, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 3:33 PM
> Hi list,
> 
> I have never been lucky enough to see a bolide, or
> fire-ball.
> 
> But I have in my life seen 3 that were bright green, 2 That
> made a? loud hissing or swishing noise. But this past
> november, I seen a very
> Bright white one start directly over head and head south
> east, as the bright light burnt out, for a few tenths of a
> second, the object just glowed bright red, went dim, and
> glowed about half as bright again, no tail.
> 
> I would think this object made it through the lowest levels
> of the atmosphere. Anyone ever had an encounter like that!
> 
> Thanks
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From balisterjames at att.net  Sat Feb 20 17:03:43 2010
From: balisterjames at att.net (James Balister)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:03:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw:  Your top meteor sightings!
In-Reply-To: <19177.82142.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <19177.82142.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <341273.99562.qm@web180115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>





----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: James Balister <balisterjames at att.net>
> To: Meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Sat, February 20, 2010 4:01:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
> 
> What got me started in meteorites was one that I saw in 1957 or 58.? I was 
> looking up into the night sky and exactly where I was looking one just lit!? To 
> make things better it came right for me!? It dropted small teardrop shaped fire 
> of different colors as it came down.? It was totaly silent.? It passed between 
> the next door garage which was about 30 feet away and me.? I knew that because 
> the sparks fell on this side of the garage.? It would have landed in the field 
> to my left, but some how it slightly raised and went two blocks North and landed 
> on the other side of the tree line.? I have been looking ever since.? Now that 
> we have Google Earth I beleive I have found the spot where it landed.??I??am 
> going after it this spring.? That meteor was? most? exciting to see streaking 
> in!? The sighting was at least 10 seconds.? And I will never gorget it.? There 
> was a story about it in the local newspaper that I cut out and come accross 
> from
time to time.. 



----- Original Message ----
> 
> From: Greg Catterton <> href="mailto:star_wars_collector at yahoo.com">star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> 
> To: Dave Myers <> href="mailto:whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com">whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
> 
> Cc: > href="mailto:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> 
> Sent: Sat, February 20, 2010 2:52:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 
> Your top meteor sightings!
> 
> I saw a really nice one on the way 
> to the recent MAG meeting. I first thought it 
> was for 10 seconds, but 
> more close to the time for me to tell my wife "oh my 
> god, look at that 
> one!" then it went out.
I tried to find out more about it, 
> but had 
> no luck.
That was the biggest and brightest one I think I have ever 
> 
> seen. Kinda nice early in the morning on the way to a meteorite 
> 
> meeting.

Greg Catterton
> 
> href="http://www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com">> href="http://www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com">www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA 
> 
> member 4682
On Ebay: 
> 
> http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites


--- On Sat, 
> 
> 2/20/10, Dave Myers <> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com" 
> href="mailto:whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com">whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com">> ymailto="mailto:whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com" 
> href="mailto:whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com">whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com> 
> 
> wrote:

> From: Dave Myers <> ymailto="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com" 
> href="mailto:whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com">whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com" 
> 
> href="mailto:> href="mailto:whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com">whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com">> ymailto="mailto:whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com" 
> href="mailto:whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com">whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
> 
> 
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
> To: 
> "Jeff 
> Grossman" <> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:jgrossman at usgs.gov" 
> href="mailto:jgrossman at usgs.gov">jgrossman at usgs.gov">> ymailto="mailto:jgrossman at usgs.gov" 
> href="mailto:jgrossman at usgs.gov">jgrossman at usgs.gov>, "Galactic Stone 
> 
> & Ironworks" <> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com" 
> href="mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com">meteoritemike at gmail.com">> ymailto="mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com" 
> href="mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com">meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> 
> 
> Cc: "Meteorite-list" <> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" 
> href="mailto:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">> ymailto="mailto:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" 
> href="mailto:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> 
> 
> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 3:33 PM
> Hi list,
> 
> 
> I 
> have never been lucky enough to see a bolide, or
> 
> fire-ball.
> 
> 
> But I have in my life seen 3 that were 
> bright green, 2 That
> 
> made a? loud hissing or swishing noise. 
> But this past
> november, I seen a 
> very
> Bright white one 
> start directly over head and head south
> 
> east, as the bright 
> light burnt out, for a few tenths of a
> second, the 
> object just 
> glowed bright red, went dim, and
> glowed about half as bright 
> 
> again, no tail.
> 
> I would think this object made it through the 
> 
> lowest levels
> of the atmosphere. Anyone ever had an encounter 
> like 
> that!
> 
> Thanks
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Visit the 
> Archives at 
> 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> 
> 
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> > ymailto="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" 
> href="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" 
> 
> href="mailto:> href="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">> ymailto="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" 
> href="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> 
> 
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> 


? ? ? 
> 
> 
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at > 
> href="> target=_blank >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html" 
> target=_blank 
> >> href="http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html" target=_blank 
> >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list 
> 
> mailing list
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> href="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">> ymailto="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" 
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> 
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> target=_blank 
> >> href="http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list" target=_blank 
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From freequarks at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 17:18:14 2010
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:18:14 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
In-Reply-To: <592814.91533.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <e51421551002201050j547f6165n27f98a3e32030f78@mail.gmail.com>
	<592814.91533.qm@web110110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a1002201418k32002c58xdca559333f33d721@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Dave,

This is the best one I've ever seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwWc_eCkSyw

The smoke was quite colorful and lasted a long time. I saw it as it
flew across western Montana on its way to its closest earth approach
over Canada.

Best,

Martin




On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> I have never been lucky enough to see a bolide, or fire-ball.
>
> But I have in my life seen 3 that were bright green, 2 That made a ?loud hissing or swishing noise. But this past november, I seen a very
> Bright white one start directly over head and head south east, as the bright light burnt out, for a few tenths of a second, the object just glowed bright red, went dim, and glowed about half as bright again, no tail.
>
> I would think this object made it through the lowest levels of the atmosphere. Anyone ever had an encounter like that!
>
> Thanks
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From cdtucson at cox.net  Sat Feb 20 17:31:21 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:31:21 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lorton case settled
Message-ID: <20100220173121.8SNNN.177874.imail@fed1rmwml46>

This is a way to settle the Lorton ownership case. see link;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DqSw41jD2Q

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax



From shelly1999 at msn.com  Sat Feb 20 17:41:01 2010
From: shelly1999 at msn.com (Shelly)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:41:01 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
References: <19177.82142.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP9113D5EE455018614E9568CA450@phx.gbl>

I hesitate to relate my story as I do not have all the facts in 
place...........In fact I have been saying to myself that I should do just 
that but time has gone on way to long without action.......your topic is the 
perfect place to start........
1993 I believe....the date I do not recall......but can be 
determined..........I was the Chief of Police of a NE Pennsylvania Police 
Dept......at approx. 0400 hrs. I was talking to a Police officer from the 
next jurisdiction.....when a large object was observed by both of 
us....travelling west to east........almost directly above us...in fact it 
made us duck slightly when seen.....This huge piece of rock was the lenght 
of my index finger with arm extended.......It was not on 'Fire" but totaly 
visible with surface features casting shadows upon itself from the full 
moon......the speed of the object was very slow.........the full moon cast 
shadows off of the high peaks onto it's surface and the tips of the high 
areas took turns dropping.....red....white......blue.....yellow sparklers!
If you know what a sparkler looks like while it burns....some of the sparks 
go fast and some slow.....well that's what these object did....dropped slow 
sparklers off the high peaks..........
The rock was shaped like a heavy topped kidney bean.....the surface had 
definate contours with high peaks and the middle of the object had a very 
jagged looking area.....reminding me of jagged teeth.......Two long thin 
electric lime trails extended from the top and bottom of the object and 
stayed in place as the object slowly moved east.........
The first thing that alerted us to the object was a loud roaring sound.. 
that...funny at the time sounded like the engine from a star trek 
ship.....steady .....high pitched whistles went with the sparkler effect 
with the sound of a string of firecrackers going off........numerous " Booms 
"........etc.
I will say this about the experience......Having served my Country during 
Vietnam as a Special Forces soldier and in  Law enforcement situations..... 
I have never been in a situation that I did not feel in control of until 
this.......It looked like a computer generated object complete with 
sparklers and sound.......I thought if this things explodes Philadelphia to 
New York would be effected...I had nothing to do but watch.......I counted 
off 25 sec. untill the object disappered.........
The next day I heard that people from Virginia to New England reported 
seeing a object .......two days later I had ufo investigators looking for 
info.......I told them like I am telling you....It was a huge Rock and a 
once in a lifetime event.
Oh!...the police officer that witnessed this with me ....refused to discuss 
the event with anyone to the point of almost denial..........he has since 
retired and I am going to make contact ...and get his side......because he 
left quite quickly that nite and never spoke about it again........it's time 
we talked.
Michael Mikowski
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Catterton" <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
To: "Dave Myers" <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!


I saw a really nice one on the way to the recent MAG meeting. I first 
thought it was for 10 seconds, but more close to the time for me to tell my 
wife "oh my god, look at that one!" then it went out.
I tried to find out more about it, but had no luck.
That was the biggest and brightest one I think I have ever seen. Kinda nice 
early in the morning on the way to a meteorite meeting.

Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites


--- On Sat, 2/20/10, Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
> To: "Jeff Grossman" <jgrossman at usgs.gov>, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" 
> <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 3:33 PM
> Hi list,
>
> I have never been lucky enough to see a bolide, or
> fire-ball.
>
> But I have in my life seen 3 that were bright green, 2 That
> made a loud hissing or swishing noise. But this past
> november, I seen a very
> Bright white one start directly over head and head south
> east, as the bright light burnt out, for a few tenths of a
> second, the object just glowed bright red, went dim, and
> glowed about half as bright again, no tail.
>
> I would think this object made it through the lowest levels
> of the atmosphere. Anyone ever had an encounter like that!
>
> Thanks
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From fujmon at mac.com  Sat Feb 20 18:57:11 2010
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:57:11 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP9113D5EE455018614E9568CA450@phx.gbl>
References: <19177.82142.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP9113D5EE455018614E9568CA450@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1EAD2E87-4855-4BCF-9A11-E5959D99C78E@mac.com>

Aloha meteor watchers,

My most memorable meteor sighting was on November 21, 2001, during the peak of the Leonids shower on the summit of Mauna Kea on Hawaii Island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.  Hawaii was in the perfect location to view the peak (of the 2001 shower and 33 year cycle), and I happened to be working at the 8.3m Subaru Telescope, operating the SuprimeCam wide field imager on the prime focus of the telescope.  Night lunch is at 11:30 pm, and I took my break outside to get a glimpse of the meteor shower.  I faced the eastern sky and observed as Leo slowly rose above the horizon.  Several meteors were already appearing, with occasional earth-grazers traversing almost 180 degrees across the sky.  

One I recall would appear as a bright greenish-blue streak that pierced the dark night sky, fading out before reappearing again this time as an orange-yellow meteor.  This was probably an earth-grazer that skipped across and through the earth's atmosphere not unlike a stone across a pond or lake's surface.  But that was not the most memorable meteor of the night.

At 12:09 am, there was a super bright bolide that appeared and got brighter and brighter in intensity, seemingly without moving at all in the sky.  It was apparently traveling toward me, and its light cast shadows from the support building and railings that danced all around me.  At its brightest, I would estimate that it was -13 v magnitude, or about equal to that of the full moon.   While all this occurred I thought I could hear a buzzing sound associated with the meteor.  Its intensity seemed to match that of the bolide I was watching.  After what seemed like an eternity (but was probably only a few seconds at the most), the meteor spiked in brightness before extinguishing to darkness.  Wow!  I had to pinch myself to be sure I had not imagined that experience.  

In retrospect I know that any sound emanating from a meteor could not coincide with the vision of it, because of the difference in speed of light and sound waves.  But I know what I heard and and experienced and later learned of electrophonic sound phenomenon, which could explain what I had experienced.  A most unforgettable meteor sighting! 

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
(808) 640-9161







From GeoZay at aol.com  Sat Feb 20 19:26:13 2010
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:26:13 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] GPAA Gold Show in Fresno Today
Message-ID: <2ce57.a4f6b49.38b1d7a5@aol.com>


Hi all...I just got back from the GPAA gold  and treasure show in Fresno 
today. It was quite crowded. Maybe a thousand or two  people.  Anyways, I went 
there mainly for the gold panning contest. I  placed third, but had a 
problem with picking out the small nuggets with my  fingers that slowed me down. 
Besides, I already got 3 copper pan trophies and my  wife doesn't want 
anymore on the wall. :O) there also wasn't much of anything in  the ways of 
equipment that I desired to purchase. Oh...I bought a 30.5 gram  nugget for only 
$4. I should add that it wasn't made up of gold, but copper.  Still it was 
natural and river worn. It looks pretty neat. It was from Michigan.  During 
my wonderings at the show, I noted one vendor with several fragments of  
Meteorites kinda hidden off to the side. I recognzed them before I was able to  
find a hand scribbled note that simply said, "Meteorites". No prices, but I  
doubt they would have sold for much. they all looked like ordinary 
chondrites  probably unclassifed NWA's. I'm now wondering why there's no vendor that 
has a  sizeable amount of modest priced meteorites for sale there? I bet it 
would be  worth the effort. Someone could do what several vendors usually 
do with a small  gold nugget or two and that is to raffle them off. Tickets 
for about a buck a  piece and selling maybe a couple hundred by days end. 
Selling raffle tickets are  real popular at these shows. At the end of the day, 
the show raffles a lot of  items, including what the individual vendors 
provided from their ticket sales. A  couple years ago, I won a 3 gram gold 
nugget this way. It was a hoot! :O) Now my  wife posses it. These shows are only 
weekends long and there's about 10 of them  thru out the U.S. each year. 
I'm not a meteorite dealer, but if I was one, I  sure would contact the GPAA 
folks to find out the particulars. Maybe someone  could set up a display at a 
show that's near your location. I noticed that  there's usually two in 
Arizona, One In Primm, Nevada, San Bernardino, Fresno,  two in Oregon, Montana, 
N. Carolina, Washington State, Colorado, Penn. these  were last years 
locations, but often they are in the same place. Besides the  gold related 
paraphanalia, I see some gemstones and what have you. I'd think  meteorites would 
fit right in. 
George Zay  



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 19:35:28 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:35:28 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
In-Reply-To: <1EAD2E87-4855-4BCF-9A11-E5959D99C78E@mac.com>
References: <19177.82142.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP9113D5EE455018614E9568CA450@phx.gbl>
	<1EAD2E87-4855-4BCF-9A11-E5959D99C78E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002201635q2dcd12a5kea0d1d89b69a7e41@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gary,

Great stories.   Being an amateur astronomer, you know that if you
spend enough time looking up, you will see things that many people
don't ever see or rarely see.  I used to think shooting stars and
bolides were rare until I picked up telescopes and big binoculars for
the first time.

One night, while sitting out under NELM 5 skies (not exactly dark, but
not terrible either), I had a 25x100mm binocular mounted a
paralellogram.  I kicked back in a chair and did sweeps of the sky
from zenith to horizon.  This was standard operating procedure for me.
 I would take a cooler full of iced coffees outside with me, a cigar,
and the S&T Pocket Sky Atlas.  I'd pick a couple of areas, like Orion
or Cygnus (depending on the season) and just concentrate on finding
DSO's in that region.  I stay out for about 6 hours and then finish
the night with the cigar before packing it in.

Well anyhoot, that particular night I was out to observe and there was
no meteor shower or other activity on the schedule.  I saw a total of
7 sporadic meteors that night, many of which came from different
radiants.  Some were bright and some were faint.  Most were quick
streaks of white or whitish light that would last only 1-2 seconds and
then suddenly vanish like a switch turned them off.  One I saw while
looking through the eyepieces of 100mm binocular and it lasted several
seconds.  I looked away from the eyepieces and tried to spot the
meteor with my naked eye, but it was too faint.  I quickly returned to
the binocular just in time to see it suddenly wink out.  Well, despite
having dew shields, it was very humid that night and the big 4-inch
objectives of the binocular dewed up on me.  So it was time to go in.
I lit my cigar and kicked back in the chair, ticking off the DSO's I
had spotted that night in my observing log using a dim red flashlight.
 I looked up and saw a BIG BRIGHT BOLIDE that was bright yellow, it
travelled from west to east across Ursa Major and it left behind a
bright trail of sparks which were yellow and white.  The bolide lasted
about 4-5 seconds before it brightened to about Magnitude 1 before it
winked out (apparently an airburst or explosion), leaving behind a
trail of sparks that lingered for a second longer before it was
utterly gone.  I didn't hear any sounds associated with it.

Gary, that big bright one you saw that had electrophonic effects, it's
quite possible that bolide dropped meteorites.  Did it go out over the
ocean?

If so, I wonder if it would be possible to plot something like that
and drop a big magnet behind a trawler and locate it.  (assuming the
water is not too deep - which it probably is)

Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG

On 2/20/10, Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com> wrote:
> Aloha meteor watchers,
>
> My most memorable meteor sighting was on November 21, 2001, during the peak
> of the Leonids shower on the summit of Mauna Kea on Hawaii Island in the
> middle of the Pacific Ocean.  Hawaii was in the perfect location to view the
> peak (of the 2001 shower and 33 year cycle), and I happened to be working at
> the 8.3m Subaru Telescope, operating the SuprimeCam wide field imager on the
> prime focus of the telescope.  Night lunch is at 11:30 pm, and I took my
> break outside to get a glimpse of the meteor shower.  I faced the eastern
> sky and observed as Leo slowly rose above the horizon.  Several meteors were
> already appearing, with occasional earth-grazers traversing almost 180
> degrees across the sky.
>
> One I recall would appear as a bright greenish-blue streak that pierced the
> dark night sky, fading out before reappearing again this time as an
> orange-yellow meteor.  This was probably an earth-grazer that skipped across
> and through the earth's atmosphere not unlike a stone across a pond or
> lake's surface.  But that was not the most memorable meteor of the night.
>
> At 12:09 am, there was a super bright bolide that appeared and got brighter
> and brighter in intensity, seemingly without moving at all in the sky.  It
> was apparently traveling toward me, and its light cast shadows from the
> support building and railings that danced all around me.  At its brightest,
> I would estimate that it was -13 v magnitude, or about equal to that of the
> full moon.   While all this occurred I thought I could hear a buzzing sound
> associated with the meteor.  Its intensity seemed to match that of the
> bolide I was watching.  After what seemed like an eternity (but was probably
> only a few seconds at the most), the meteor spiked in brightness before
> extinguishing to darkness.  Wow!  I had to pinch myself to be sure I had not
> imagined that experience.
>
> In retrospect I know that any sound emanating from a meteor could not
> coincide with the vision of it, because of the difference in speed of light
> and sound waves.  But I know what I heard and and experienced and later
> learned of electrophonic sound phenomenon, which could explain what I had
> experienced.  A most unforgettable meteor sighting!
>
> Gary Fujihara
> Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
> 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
> http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
> http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html
> (808) 640-9161
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 22:18:13 2010
From: whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com (Dave Myers)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:18:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
In-Reply-To: <822da19a1002201418k32002c58xdca559333f33d721@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <141818.24595.qm@web110103.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Martin and list,

Seeing something like that is my dream before I Die, That is Awesome! Great video! I just hope,

I don't see one like that while driving! LOL, I know, I will (crash),...I would never keep my eyes on the road!

But the top 5,( meteors) I did see and here, Well, I will take with me through the cosmic dust, and  tell all about it on the other side!
(LOL),

I wish you all the best visual effects, that this universe can display in all our life time, and hope it is soon, so you can tell now, rather then later!

Take care all, and great posts, so keep them coming!


Dave Myers

 










--- On Sat, 2/20/10, Dark Matter <freequarks at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Dark Matter <freequarks at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
> To: "Dave Myers" <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 10:18 PM
> Hi Dave,
> 
> This is the best one I've ever seen:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwWc_eCkSyw
> 
> The smoke was quite colorful and lasted a long time. I saw
> it as it
> flew across western Montana on its way to its closest earth
> approach
> over Canada.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi list,
> >
> > I have never been lucky enough to see a bolide, or
> fire-ball.
> >
> > But I have in my life seen 3 that were bright green, 2
> That made a ?loud hissing or swishing noise. But this past
> november, I seen a very
> > Bright white one start directly over head and head
> south east, as the bright light burnt out, for a few tenths
> of a second, the object just glowed bright red, went dim,
> and glowed about half as bright again, no tail.
> >
> > I would think this object made it through the lowest
> levels of the atmosphere. Anyone ever had an encounter like
> that!
> >
> > Thanks
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> 


      


From info at meteorites.com.au  Sat Feb 20 22:35:28 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:35:28 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
In-Reply-To: <19177.82142.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <19177.82142.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8EFBC3AFAF624D349C21BAC46C042DB1@JeffPC>

The best I ever saw was a huge Earth grazer about 17 years ago. A massive 
fireball travelled from almost the western horizon and dissapeared over the 
eastern. It seemed like it must have taken 30-60 seconds to do it. Imagine 
the Trenton fireball at night and that's what it was like. I've never seen 
anything like it since.

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Catterton" <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
To: "Dave Myers" <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!


I saw a really nice one on the way to the recent MAG meeting. I first 
thought it was for 10 seconds, but more close to the time for me to tell my 
wife "oh my god, look at that one!" then it went out.
I tried to find out more about it, but had no luck.
That was the biggest and brightest one I think I have ever seen. Kinda nice 
early in the morning on the way to a meteorite meeting.

Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites


--- On Sat, 2/20/10, Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
> To: "Jeff Grossman" <jgrossman at usgs.gov>, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" 
> <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 3:33 PM
> Hi list,
>
> I have never been lucky enough to see a bolide, or
> fire-ball.
>
> But I have in my life seen 3 that were bright green, 2 That
> made a loud hissing or swishing noise. But this past
> november, I seen a very
> Bright white one start directly over head and head south
> east, as the bright light burnt out, for a few tenths of a
> second, the object just glowed bright red, went dim, and
> glowed about half as bright again, no tail.
>
> I would think this object made it through the lowest levels
> of the atmosphere. Anyone ever had an encounter like that!
>
> Thanks
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From minador at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 22:45:40 2010
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:45:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper discovered one year ago... yesterday!
In-Reply-To: <80659e1a1002201122q283ccea2qad20843b77d0abc4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <80659e1a1002201122q283ccea2qad20843b77d0abc4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <411575.70451.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Contratulations Ruben, I hadn't heard that cool?story until this years B-day bash.
Happy hunting,
Mark B
Vail, AZ

----- Original Message ----
From: Ruben Garcia <mrmeteorite at gmail.com>
To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, February 20, 2010 12:22:48 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper discovered one year ago... yesterday!

Just thought I'd mention it,

http://www.mr-meteorite.net/abouthopper.htm
-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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From info at meteorites.com.au  Sat Feb 20 22:40:31 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:40:31 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
In-Reply-To: <1EAD2E87-4855-4BCF-9A11-E5959D99C78E@mac.com>
References: <19177.82142.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><BLU0-SMTP9113D5EE455018614E9568CA450@phx.gbl>
	<1EAD2E87-4855-4BCF-9A11-E5959D99C78E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0652AF4A2F7546B99C10E4DD91146DF3@JeffPC>

Hi Gary,

Indeed it does sound like you experienced electrophonic sounds. Many years 
ago Bernd helped me put a meteor sound page together using his famous 
database of info. It's amazing as when you read through them you start to 
see a definite pattern in the descriptions. The witness descriptions of many 
falls are here:

http://www.meteorites.com.au/odds&ends/sounds.html

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gary Fujihara" <fujmon at mac.com>
To: "Shelly" <shelly1999 at msn.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!


> Aloha meteor watchers,
>
> My most memorable meteor sighting was on November 21, 2001, during the 
> peak of the Leonids shower on the summit of Mauna Kea on Hawaii Island in 
> the middle of the Pacific Ocean.  Hawaii was in the perfect location to 
> view the peak (of the 2001 shower and 33 year cycle), and I happened to be 
> working at the 8.3m Subaru Telescope, operating the SuprimeCam wide field 
> imager on the prime focus of the telescope.  Night lunch is at 11:30 pm, 
> and I took my break outside to get a glimpse of the meteor shower.  I 
> faced the eastern sky and observed as Leo slowly rose above the horizon. 
> Several meteors were already appearing, with occasional earth-grazers 
> traversing almost 180 degrees across the sky.
>
> One I recall would appear as a bright greenish-blue streak that pierced 
> the dark night sky, fading out before reappearing again this time as an 
> orange-yellow meteor.  This was probably an earth-grazer that skipped 
> across and through the earth's atmosphere not unlike a stone across a pond 
> or lake's surface.  But that was not the most memorable meteor of the 
> night.
>
> At 12:09 am, there was a super bright bolide that appeared and got 
> brighter and brighter in intensity, seemingly without moving at all in the 
> sky.  It was apparently traveling toward me, and its light cast shadows 
> from the support building and railings that danced all around me.  At its 
> brightest, I would estimate that it was -13 v magnitude, or about equal to 
> that of the full moon.   While all this occurred I thought I could hear a 
> buzzing sound associated with the meteor.  Its intensity seemed to match 
> that of the bolide I was watching.  After what seemed like an eternity 
> (but was probably only a few seconds at the most), the meteor spiked in 
> brightness before extinguishing to darkness.  Wow!  I had to pinch myself 
> to be sure I had not imagined that experience.
>
> In retrospect I know that any sound emanating from a meteor could not 
> coincide with the vision of it, because of the difference in speed of 
> light and sound waves.  But I know what I heard and and experienced and 
> later learned of electrophonic sound phenomenon, which could explain what 
> I had experienced.  A most unforgettable meteor sighting!
>
> Gary Fujihara
> Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
> 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
> http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
> http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html
> (808) 640-9161
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 23:16:07 2010
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:16:07 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] 9.8 LB Stony Meteorite - NO RESERVE starting at $1
Message-ID: <80659e1a1002202016g7d942859v31eadbcba0e69c89@mail.gmail.com>

See here.

http://shop.ebay.com/mr-meteorite/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From rhartman04 at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 21 01:38:24 2010
From: rhartman04 at earthlink.net (R N Hartman)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:38:24 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] 9.8 LB Stony Meteorite - NO RESERVE starting
	at $1
References: <80659e1a1002202016g7d942859v31eadbcba0e69c89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17FB386792324FE4B904FBAEB524C8BA@DBZC5NB1>

Where?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ruben Garcia" <mrmeteorite at gmail.com>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] 9.8 LB Stony Meteorite - NO RESERVE starting at $1


> See here.
>
> http://shop.ebay.com/mr-meteorite/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
>
> -- 
> Rock On!
>
> Ruben Garcia
>
> Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
> Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
> Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
> Database version: 6.14390
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ 





E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
Database version: 6.14390
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Sun Feb 21 02:36:50 2010
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:36:50 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] 9.8 LB Stony Meteorite - NO RESERVE startingat
	$1
References: <80659e1a1002202016g7d942859v31eadbcba0e69c89@mail.gmail.com>
	<17FB386792324FE4B904FBAEB524C8BA@DBZC5NB1>
Message-ID: <505ADC0596F7408B96E7FEF9BD005B03@ATARIENGINE2>

This is just a sort of a
double-ditto to Ron's.

Where is is it from?
When was it found?
Did you collect it in the field?
Or buy it for re-sale?
NWA?
USA?
And all the rest of it!

Inquiring Minds Want To Know...


Sterling K. Webb
-------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "R N Hartman" <rhartman04 at earthlink.net>
To: "Ruben Garcia" <mrmeteorite at gmail.com>; "Meteorite List" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 9.8 LB Stony Meteorite - NO RESERVE 
startingat $1


> Where?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ruben Garcia" <mrmeteorite at gmail.com>
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:16 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] 9.8 LB Stony Meteorite - NO RESERVE starting 
> at $1
>
>
>> See here.
>>
>> http://shop.ebay.com/mr-meteorite/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
>>
>> -- 
>> Rock On!
>>
>> Ruben Garcia
>>
>> Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
>> Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
>> Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>> Database version: 6.14390
>> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
> Database version: 6.14390
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From mail at spaceguarduk.com  Sun Feb 21 07:59:13 2010
From: mail at spaceguarduk.com (Spaceguard)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:59:13 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] A query
Message-ID: <4B812E21.40109@spaceguarduk.com>

I received the following today.  Does anyone have any ideas, or can 
anyone help Mr Bartley?

Jay Tate
The Spaceguard Centre
http://www.spaceguarduk.com


"hi, I found your site and believe the work you are doing is extremely 
important. 
 
There was an impacts site in my area of Alabama , USA.  I have , on 
several occasions, tried to contact the professor at Auburn University 
that investigated the impact site to verify a few potential meteorites 
with out success.  The department head took a quick look at a few 
samples that I had taken to Auburn for review.  He stated he was 
extremely sure they were real.

As a novas, I tried to cut one to see what it was made of.  After 
wearing out several hack saw blades, I obtained a diamond saw wheel and 
was able to cut into the sample.  To my surprise there was a pocket of 
compressed air inside. Really wished it had been inside a vacuum chamber. 
 
By chance to you have any contacts in the US that may be willing to 
review some of the samples to see if there could be any value to science.
Keep looking for potential NEOs.

Richard W. W. Bartley, Sr   132 Bartley Lane Grady, Al 36036   334-546-9734"



From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net  Sun Feb 21 08:45:35 2010
From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 06:45:35 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] A query, sent from Bernd
Message-ID: <A8B57FDA70E346FAB23F3F45D9BE9A05@DFZN8X81>


Hello Jay and List,

The only impact crater in Alabama (as far as I know) is the Wetumpka impact 
crater.
It is located in Elmore County, Alabama, USA (32? 31.5' N, 86? 10.5' W), its 
diameter
is 6.5 km.

Planar deformation features in quartz, an iridium component and impactites 
have
been found there.

Bernd (in Germany)



From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 09:47:59 2010
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:47:59 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] 9.8 LB Stony Meteorite - NO RESERVE startingat
	$1
In-Reply-To: <505ADC0596F7408B96E7FEF9BD005B03@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <80659e1a1002202016g7d942859v31eadbcba0e69c89@mail.gmail.com>
	<17FB386792324FE4B904FBAEB524C8BA@DBZC5NB1>
	<505ADC0596F7408B96E7FEF9BD005B03@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <80659e1a1002210647w85bccdbh348e4b7a2145257b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Sterling and Ron (and anyone else I may have unintentionally confused),

Sorry about my lazy post..

Here is the exact link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220560097766&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

It is 4450 grams (about 9.8 Lbs) probably an unlassified NWA - as I
bought it in Tucson just to have a large stony meteorite to show off.
However, just a couple of days later I was offered a 5 pound chondrite
that I FOUND and had sold many years ago. Once I got that
one back I decided I didn't need this one. After all showing off a
meteorite I found is much better than showing one someone else found.



On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:36 AM, Sterling K. Webb
<sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> This is just a sort of a
> double-ditto to Ron's.
>
> Where is is it from?
> When was it found?
> Did you collect it in the field?
> Or buy it for re-sale?
> NWA?
> USA?
> And all the rest of it!
>
> Inquiring Minds Want To Know...
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> -------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R N Hartman" <rhartman04 at earthlink.net>
> To: "Ruben Garcia" <mrmeteorite at gmail.com>; "Meteorite List"
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 9.8 LB Stony Meteorite - NO RESERVE startingat
> $1
>
>
>> Where?
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruben Garcia" <mrmeteorite at gmail.com>
>> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:16 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] 9.8 LB Stony Meteorite - NO RESERVE starting at
>> $1
>>
>>
>>> See here.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://shop.ebay.com/mr-meteorite/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rock On!
>>>
>>> Ruben Garcia
>>>
>>> Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
>>> Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
>>> Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>>> Database version: 6.14390
>>> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>> Database version: 6.14390
>> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>



-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Sun Feb 21 09:58:35 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:58:35 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorwrongs for sale on Ebay
Message-ID: <4B814A1B.3080101@cox.net>

Dear Friends,

There some Martian Meteorwrongs for sale on Ebay at
either http://tiny.cc/MeteoriteFossils or
http://shop.ebay.com/lin440315/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

They include
1. "Martian Fossil Meteorite" ball containing BV fossil,
2. "Martian Fossil Meteorite" containing fossil BV/HC/RBC ,
and 3. "Martian Iron Meteorite" containing fossil BV/HC/RBC

In the "Martian Fossil Meteorite" containing fossil BV/HC/RBC ," at 
either http://tiny.cc/MartianMeteoriteFossil or
http://cgi.ebay.com/Prettiest-Fossil-Meteorite-seal-containing-Martian-BV_W0QQitemZ130367057871QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5a7b6fcf 
the person states:

"Uniqueness: Pretty scarlet blood vessel remains are visible
with a simple magnifier.

Origin: Mars

Age: Over 2.5 billion years old

Content: fossilized blood vessels and red blood cells

Size: About 9 X 4 X 4 centimeters

Shape: a Chinese big seal

Unique feature: contains fossilized remains of blood vessels and
osteon canals, which are the distinguishing feature of animal
compact bones."

and

"I recently found many meteorites actually contain fossils of Mars.

They are from Mars because there are thousands upon thousands
of meteorites that possess fossils of mammals. Thousands of
mammals could not have lived in asteroids, for they needed a
complex ecosystem to sustain them, such as water source,
vegetation, other smaller animals, etc. So, they must have originated
from a planet, not asteroids. Mars, rather than any other planet, is
the only possible planet that originated those fossil meteorites."

The same person also has a 290 million-year old "Fossil Hominid"
bone, "Antique primate leg bone fossil 290 million years old,"
for sale at

http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-primate-leg-bone-fossil-290-million-years-old_W0QQitemZ130368774308QQcategoryZ3216QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DDLSL%252BSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D10%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8002578974541559374

A blog about the "primate" pseudofossil, actually a siderite
concretion, can be found in "Convinced You Found a 230
MYA Human Fossil? Sell it on eBay for 2-3 Mil!" at
either http://tiny.cc/HominidFossilEbay or
http://lostinliminality.wordpress.com/2010/02/09/found-a-230-mya-human-fossil-sell-it-on-ebay-for-2-3-mil/

and in "$3 million ?primate fossil? on eBay, Journal of
ImprobableResearch at:

http://improbable.com/2010/02/09/3-million-primate-fossil-on-ebay/

Yours,

Paul H.


From almitt2 at localnet.com  Sun Feb 21 10:39:45 2010
From: almitt2 at localnet.com (almitt2 at localnet.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:39:45 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorwrongs for sale on Ebay
In-Reply-To: <4B814A1B.3080101@cox.net>
References: <4B814A1B.3080101@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20100221103945.9kcpdzj4mqboowkg@webmail.localnet.com>

Hi Paul,

This seller offering any Plymouth, Indiana? ;-)

--AL Mitterling

Quoting Paul Heinrich <oxytropidoceras at cox.net>:

> Dear Friends,
>
> There some Martian Meteorwrongs for sale on Ebay at
> either http://tiny.cc/MeteoriteFossils or
> http://shop.ebay.com/lin440315/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
>
> They include
> 1. "Martian Fossil Meteorite" ball containing BV fossil,
> 2. "Martian Fossil Meteorite" containing fossil BV/HC/RBC ,
> and 3. "Martian Iron Meteorite" containing fossil BV/HC/RBC
>
> In the "Martian Fossil Meteorite" containing fossil BV/HC/RBC ," at 
> either http://tiny.cc/MartianMeteoriteFossil or
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Prettiest-Fossil-Meteorite-seal-containing-Martian-BV_W0QQitemZ130367057871QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5a7b6fcf the person 
> states:
>
> "Uniqueness: Pretty scarlet blood vessel remains are visible
> with a simple magnifier.
>
> Origin: Mars
>
> Age: Over 2.5 billion years old
>
> Content: fossilized blood vessels and red blood cells
>
> Size: About 9 X 4 X 4 centimeters
>
> Shape: a Chinese big seal
>
> Unique feature: contains fossilized remains of blood vessels and
> osteon canals, which are the distinguishing feature of animal
> compact bones."
>
> and
>
> "I recently found many meteorites actually contain fossils of Mars.
>
> They are from Mars because there are thousands upon thousands
> of meteorites that possess fossils of mammals. Thousands of
> mammals could not have lived in asteroids, for they needed a
> complex ecosystem to sustain them, such as water source,
> vegetation, other smaller animals, etc. So, they must have originated
> from a planet, not asteroids. Mars, rather than any other planet, is
> the only possible planet that originated those fossil meteorites."
>
> The same person also has a 290 million-year old "Fossil Hominid"
> bone, "Antique primate leg bone fossil 290 million years old,"
> for sale at
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-primate-leg-bone-fossil-290-million-years-old_W0QQitemZ130368774308QQcategoryZ3216QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DDLSL%252BSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D10%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8002578974541559374
>
> A blog about the "primate" pseudofossil, actually a siderite
> concretion, can be found in "Convinced You Found a 230
> MYA Human Fossil? Sell it on eBay for 2-3 Mil!" at
> either http://tiny.cc/HominidFossilEbay or
> http://lostinliminality.wordpress.com/2010/02/09/found-a-230-mya-human-fossil-sell-it-on-ebay-for-2-3-mil/
>
> and in "$3 million "primate fossil" on eBay, Journal of
> ImprobableResearch at:
>
> http://improbable.com/2010/02/09/3-million-primate-fossil-on-ebay/
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul H.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list





From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 21 10:49:46 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:49:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] A query
In-Reply-To: <4B812E21.40109@spaceguarduk.com>
References: <4B812E21.40109@spaceguarduk.com>
Message-ID: <752161.99531.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,

I noticed a lot of recent traffic to my email from people who think they have a real meteorite.  They know it is real because it looks just like the piece they saw on a web-site or TV.  They are contacting me through eBay which I find objectionable.  I just say, "that is great, you need to go find a credible source to confirm it and then we can talk and please do not use eBay for non-business related inquiries."

I no longer offer to help as these leads never pan out and the finder doesn't want to 
believe what you tell them anyway.  They think their ordinary rock or 
slag is worth millions and their ticket out of a bad economy.  There is a serious increase in such inquiries and I find them to be a complete 
waste of time so I no longer provide references to credible laboratories. 

I find it best to ignore such inquiries as there is no way to win in such circumstances. You will always be the bad guy or gal when you tell them it is not a meteorite.      

Best Regards,

Adam

  


----- Original Message ----
From: Spaceguard <mail at spaceguarduk.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 4:59:13 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] A query

I received the following today.  Does anyone have any ideas, or can anyone help Mr Bartley?

Jay Tate
The Spaceguard Centre
http://www.spaceguarduk.com


"hi, I found your site and believe the work you are doing is extremely important. 
There was an impacts site in my area of Alabama , USA.  I have , on several occasions, tried to contact the professor at Auburn University that investigated the impact site to verify a few potential meteorites with out success.  The department head took a quick look at a few samples that I had taken to Auburn for review.  He stated he was extremely sure they were real.

As a novas, I tried to cut one to see what it was made of.  After wearing out several hack saw blades, I obtained a diamond saw wheel and was able to cut into the sample.  To my surprise there was a pocket of compressed air inside. Really wished it had been inside a vacuum chamber. 
By chance to you have any contacts in the US that may be willing to review some of the samples to see if there could be any value to science.
Keep looking for potential NEOs.

Richard W. W. Bartley, Sr   132 Bartley Lane Grady, Al 36036   334-546-9734"

______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 21 15:22:59 2010
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:22:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Selling meteorites on TV
Message-ID: <841258.93061.qm@web113612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I was flipping channels late last night and came across the image of a meteorite in a Riker on the screen. It caught my attention so I watched for a while. It was on the channel called "Gem TV".

The meteorite was a etched slice of Campo, about 21g listed on the label. Asking price was ~$30.

Next up was a group of three meteorites, another Campo, a slice or end cut of uNWA and a slice of Canyon Diablo. This grouping went for ~$40. The last thing offered was a Sikote shrapnel, also going for about $30. The "sizes may vary" for all three offerings...

I was chuckling at the comments made by the sales girl about going to the "Science places" the word for which suddenly dawned on her, museums, where one can go and see and touch large meteorites on display and related a story about her waking up at 4am to see a meteor shower.

I don't watch these home shopping channels, so can't say if this is the first time any of them have offered meteorites for sale, but this was the first time I've seen them being sold on TV.

A new development because of the Meteorite Men program?


--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


      


From deanbessey at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 21 15:28:00 2010
From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:28:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Dean's Ebay "Moving to Australia" Sale
In-Reply-To: <20100220173121.8SNNN.177874.imail@fed1rmwml46>
Message-ID: <736267.56439.qm@web56108.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Around once every five years it is commonplace for people to immigrate to a new country (Well, isn't it?).
I have started packing now and should go within the next couple months. In an effort to raise some cash and sell off a few things so I will have less to ship I have put a 25% discount on all of my ebay buy it nows - including more than 300 meteorites.
See my ebay user id AMUNRE for some great ebay deals (That might not come again for another five years)
Cheers
DEAN
www.meteoriteshop.com
click here:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&since=1&userid=amunre&include=0&rows=200&sort=3&completed=1


      



From nakhladog at comcast.net  Sun Feb 21 16:06:38 2010
From: nakhladog at comcast.net (Rob Wesel)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:06:38 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Brenham - NR Chergach ends today
Message-ID: <4D745338A5D14E55B40A7EC0C05D6574@windows9bb74fe>

Hello all

Just a reminder that the 601 gram fresh Mali/Chergach is ending in a couple 
hours.

The Brenham slice on eBay has sold but I have a few that didn't sell in 
Tucson back en route if any are interested in obtaining one of these massive 
slices.

I know the price is both a good one and at the same time beyond the scope of 
some collectors so I am happy to do timed payments to see you get a slice.I 
am presently down to my last three slices with a buyer considering all three 
but nothing firm.

There will be some more slices down the road but it will be a while.

When's the last time three grand could buy a pallasite slice as big as a 
pizza?

Mali:
http://shop.ebay.com/nakhladog/m.html

Rob Wesel
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
www.facebook.com/nakhladog
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




From photophlow at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 21 18:18:48 2010
From: photophlow at yahoo.com (Shawn Alan)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:18:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Selling meteorites on TV
Message-ID: <973100.97703.qm@web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Richard and List,

The women on JTV.com this am selling the iron meteorites goes by the name Dawn. I have been watching JTV.com for about 10 years and they are the leaders in jewelry and gem stones. Its funny you asked about meteorites being sold on TV because in early December I was watching her sell those meteorites and a week later I bought my first meteorite from JTV.com (Sikhote Alin). If you go to their website you can watch them live and they also?have a section where they sell minerals and within that section is where they?sell meteorites. 

It wouldn't surprise me that they would sell meteorites because they are ahead of the curve when it comes the gem market. I bet If some dealers with?have alot of meteorites and I mean alot, contacted JTV.com could?sell a shit load?of?meteorites from common falls and could see them selling on JTV.com. And with?the Meteorite Men show??I can?see in the next few months sales for common meteorites going up and more?people?wanting to own a meteorite. ?
?
Shawn Alan 
?


[meteorite-list] Selling meteorites on TV
Richard Kowalski damoclid at yahoo.com 
Sun Feb 21 15:22:59 EST 2010 


Previous message: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorwrongs for sale on Ebay 
Next message: [meteorite-list] AD - Brenham - NR Chergach ends today 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 


I was flipping channels late last night and came across the image of a meteorite in a Riker on the screen. It caught my attention so I watched for a while. It was on the channel called "Gem TV". 

The meteorite was a etched slice of Campo, about 21g listed on the label. Asking price was ~$30. 

Next up was a group of three meteorites, another Campo, a slice or end cut of uNWA and a slice of Canyon Diablo. This grouping went for ~$40. The last thing offered was a Sikote shrapnel, also going for about $30. The "sizes may vary" for all three offerings... 

I was chuckling at the comments made by the sales girl about going to the "Science places" the word for which suddenly dawned on her, museums, where one can go and see and touch large meteorites on display and related a story about her waking up at 4am to see a meteor shower. 

I don't watch these home shopping channels, so can't say if this is the first time any of them have offered meteorites for sale, but this was the first time I've seen them being sold on TV. 

A new development because of the Meteorite Men program? 


-- 
Richard Kowalski 
Full Moon Photography 
IMCA #1081 








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More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list



From debfred at att.net  Sun Feb 21 18:18:03 2010
From: debfred at att.net (debfred at att.net)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:18:03 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
In-Reply-To: <0652AF4A2F7546B99C10E4DD91146DF3@JeffPC>
References: <19177.82142.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><BLU0-SMTP9113D5EE455018614E9568CA450@phx.gbl><1EAD2E87-4855-4BCF-9A11-E5959D99C78E@mac.com>
	<0652AF4A2F7546B99C10E4DD91146DF3@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <022120102318.11643.4B81BF2B000693B100002D7B22228869349B0A02D29B9B0EBF0B0A9D000D0A0B@att.net>

  Hello List,
My TOP meteor sighting has to be Jan. 11th 1998 just after midnight. My wife and I were on our way home from a friends birthday party in Lakewood, Colorado. We were on the Colfax viaduct where it crosses the Platt River, Interstate 25, and many rail lines when the sky to the south lit up like it was daytime. We looked and saw a incredible meteor moving at a low angle from west to east over Pikes Peak. The meteor lasted a few seconds and the sky went dark. 
I was part of a search team organized by the Denver Museum and later have spent several days looking for the meteorites it may have produced. I think it was about two years later when a young boy found a beautiful black crusted meteorite in the projected strewnfield. It has been classified as a L6 chondrite. Then just a couple of years ago Matt Morgan and Gary Curtiss were able to purchase that stone. Thanks to them I was able to purchase a full slice and I now am able to look over at my display case and see that "meteor" any time I want. It is so special, I feel incredibly lucky to have a piece of the Elbert Meteorite! I have often wondered how many others on the list have seen a meteor and then were able to obtain a piece of the meteorite that produced it?

Best Regards, Fred Olsen, Denver
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list







From debfred at att.net  Sun Feb 21 18:36:35 2010
From: debfred at att.net (debfred at att.net)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:36:35 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
In-Reply-To: <022120102318.11643.4B81BF2B000693B100002D7B22228869349B0A02D29B9B0EBF0B0A9D000D0A0B@att.net>
References: <19177.82142.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><BLU0-SMTP9113D5EE455018614E9568CA450@phx.gbl><1EAD2E87-4855-4BCF-9A11-E5959D99C78E@mac.com><0652AF4A2F7546B99C10E4DD91146DF3@JeffPC>
	<022120102318.11643.4B81BF2B000693B100002D7B22228869349B0A02D29B9B0EBF0B0A9D000D0A0B@att.net>
Message-ID: <022120102336.24825.4B81C38300076DFD000060F922228869349B0A02D29B9B0EBF0B0A9D000D0A0B@att.net>

  My Bad, Elbert is an LL6. I think it was the 4th of 5 wittnessed falls in Colorado.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: debfred at att.net
>
>   Hello List,
My TOP meteor sighting has to be Jan. 11th 1998 just after midnight. My wife and 
I were on our way home from a friends birthday party in Lakewood, Colorado. We 
were on the Colfax viaduct where it crosses the Platt River, Interstate 25, and 
many rail lines when the sky to the south lit up like it was daytime. We looked 
and saw a incredible meteor moving at a low angle from west to east over Pikes 
> Peak. The meteor lasted a few seconds and the sky went dark. 
I was part of a search team organized by the Denver Museum and later have spent 
several days looking for the meteorites it may have produced. I think it was 
about two years later when a young boy found a beautiful black crusted meteorite 
in the projected strewnfield. It has been classified as a L6 chondrite. Then 
just a couple of years ago Matt Morgan and Gary Curtiss were able to purchase 
that stone. Thanks to them I was able to purchase a full slice and I now am able 
> to look over at my display case and see that "meteor" any time I want. It is so 
> special, I feel incredibly lucky to have a piece of the Elbert Meteorite! I have 
> often wondered how many others on the list have seen a meteor and then were able 
> to obtain a piece of the meteorite that produced it?
> 
> Best Regards, Fred Olsen, Denver
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list







From GeoZay at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 18:44:56 2010
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 18:44:56 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
Message-ID: <f68e.78fd23ea.38b31f78@aol.com>

Fred...how fast did it seem to go during those 2  seconds? As fast as a 
satellite, plane, or a little faster? Zip across the skies  or a little slower 
etc? About as fast as the Geminids? Taurids? The time of the  night of its 
appearance kinda bothers me some. Any sonics reported from this  meteor? 
GeoZay  



From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Sun Feb 21 19:06:57 2010
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:06:57 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
References: <f68e.78fd23ea.38b31f78@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CF4A66D8D6E34246A3E8621B0BFD97AB@bellatrix>

This was a slow fireball- several seconds long, observed by hundreds of 
witnesses. It was also caught on video, as a reflection on a car from a 
security camera. I've still got the original witness reports as well as the 
big maps where the data was plotted. Although the original search failed to 
find anything, the subsequent finds (three separate pieces) match up very 
well with the estimated strewn field from that original analysis. There were 
reports of both electrophonic noise as well as sonic booms.

This was the last big fireball before we got our camera network running. All 
the big events since then have been caught on at least one allsky camera.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GeoZay at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!


> Fred...how fast did it seem to go during those 2  seconds? As fast as a
> satellite, plane, or a little faster? Zip across the skies  or a little 
> slower
> etc? About as fast as the Geminids? Taurids? The time of the  night of its
> appearance kinda bothers me some. Any sonics reported from this  meteor?
> GeoZay



From GeoZay at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 19:22:40 2010
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:22:40 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Your top meteor sightings!
Message-ID: <1017c.22f21b73.38b32850@aol.com>


>>This was a slow fireball- several  seconds long, observed by hundreds of 
witnesses. It was also caught on  video, as a reflection on a car from a 
security camera. I've still got the  original witness reports as well as 
the 
big maps where the data was plotted.  Although the original search failed 
to 
find anything, the subsequent finds  (three separate pieces) match up very 
well with the estimated strewn field  from that original analysis. There 
were 
reports of both electrophonic noise  as well as sonic booms.>>

That all sounds good...:O)
GeoZay  



From cynapse at charter.net  Sun Feb 21 19:34:38 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:34:38 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Just found Meteorite Men 1x05
In-Reply-To: <973100.97703.qm@web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <973100.97703.qm@web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <n8k3o5tua98vv9ovhhf6s53dashvhbckd8@4ax.com>

http://www.sendspace.com/file/owsban

http://www.sendspace.com/file/tzss6k


From mmurray at montrose.net  Sun Feb 21 19:11:46 2010
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:11:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] A query, sent from Bernd
In-Reply-To: <A8B57FDA70E346FAB23F3F45D9BE9A05@DFZN8X81>
References: <A8B57FDA70E346FAB23F3F45D9BE9A05@DFZN8X81>
Message-ID: <8B3D202D-6B27-4FBA-97BB-0CC3B339679E@montrose.net>

I'd contact Elton on this first.
Mike in Co
On Feb 21, 2010, at 6:45 AM, Larry & Twink Monrad wrote:

>
> Hello Jay and List,
>
> The only impact crater in Alabama (as far as I know) is the Wetumpka  
> impact crater.
> It is located in Elmore County, Alabama, USA (32? 31.5' N, 86? 10.5'  
> W), its diameter
> is 6.5 km.
>
> Planar deformation features in quartz, an iridium component and  
> impactites have
> been found there.
>
> Bernd (in Germany)
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sun Feb 21 21:20:15 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 18:20:15 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Brecciated, Crusted,
	& Thumbprinted Specimens & a Carbonaceous
Message-ID: <4B81E9DF.4010502@meteoritesusa.com>

Here's my ad for the week. I've added some special hand picked 
meteorites and some very cool fusion crusted individuals, as well as the 
"Baby Powder Meteorite". It actually smells like baby powder. I didn't 
notice this until I cut into it. All the other material from this 
meteorite has been sold. This meteorite has been sliced and I only have 
1 piece left of this material. Also available is about 20 grams of 
carbonaceous chondrites, and some nice brecciated slices and end cuts as 
well.

SPECIAL ?CHERRY? STONES ? 213.2g $190
200g Lot of Brecciated Meteorites ? $150
http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tucson/

More meteorites to be added to this page tonight and into tomorrow. 
First come first served.

$100 orders get free shipping in the USA.

Be sure to register on my blog if you're not subscribed already for all 
the latest meteorite news from around the United States (USA) and other 
important worldwide news and events relating to meteorites, meteorite 
hunting, collecting, and the science of meteorites.
http://www.meteoritesusa.com/wp-login.php?action=register

In addition, Meteorites USA is now in the Top 5 for ALL meteorite sites 
on the web and enjoys over 35,000 hits per month. If you're a dealer or 
own an astronomy/space related website or blog, please see this page for 
details for advertising your site: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/advertising/

Meteorite Dealers Go Here: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/meteorite-dealers/

Also, I'm compiling a list of meteorite museums in the United States. 
The permanent link will be located here: 
http://www.meteoritesusa.com/meteorite-museums/ If you are a curator at 
a museum with a public meteorite exhibit please send me and email with 
your institution's information and I will add it to the Meteorites USA 
museum database.

Keep an eye out for the maps too... ;)

Enjoy...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Sun Feb 21 23:57:21 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:57:21 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Abstract About Younger Dryas Event Record In
	Midwest Lake Deposits
Message-ID: <4B820EB1.6080505@cox.net>

Dear Friends,

I came across the following abstract about ongoing research
concerning trhe Younger Dryas impact hypothesis. It is:

Gill, J. L., J. P. Marsicek, J. P. Donnelly, B. Simonson, and
J. W. Williams, 2009, Do lake sediment records show evidence
of a Younger Dryas impact event or its potential ecological effects?
Abstract COS 13-5, The 94th ESA Annual Meeting (August 2 --
7, 2009) Albuquerque, New Mexico.

http://eco.confex.com/eco/2009/techprogram/P20277.HTM

In part, the abstract states:

"We collected sediment cores from Appleman and Spicer
Lakes, IN, Silver Lake, OH, and Kirchner Marsh, MN, with
radiocarbon-dated records spanning the YD. Our sites are
ideally situated to record regional environmental responses
to a nearby impact."

It concludes:

"Results from LOI, magnetics, microspherules, charcoal and
XRF do not show the signatures predicted for a YD event.
Vegetation reconstructions are still in progress as of the time
of this abstract, but at Appleman, the Sporormiella decline
precedes the YD. We are continuing analyses to determine
whether this apparent discrepancy between the predictions of
the YD impact hypothesis and the lack of evidence in lake
sediments persist across sites."

It is part of the "COS 13 - Paleoecology" session at:

http://eco.confex.com/eco/2009/techprogram/S4761.HTM

Yours,

Paul H.


From info at meteorites.com.au  Mon Feb 22 02:07:50 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:07:50 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] A query
In-Reply-To: <752161.99531.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B812E21.40109@spaceguarduk.com>
	<752161.99531.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7EC462A203F645378FE1CE4AE510E179@JeffPC>

I receive hundreds of emails a year from people wanting to know if they have 
a meteorite. In about 9 years I can count the number that were actually 
meteorites on one hand. I always find the best place to direct people with 
meteorwrongs is to these two websites:

http://epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/meteorites/meteorwrongs/meteorwrongs.htm
http://www.meteorite-identification.com/

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
To: "Adam" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:49 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A query


> Dear List Members,
>
> I noticed a lot of recent traffic to my email from people who think they 
> have a real meteorite.  They know it is real because it looks just like 
> the piece they saw on a web-site or TV.  They are contacting me through 
> eBay which I find objectionable.  I just say, "that is great, you need to 
> go find a credible source to confirm it and then we can talk and please do 
> not use eBay for non-business related inquiries."
>
> I no longer offer to help as these leads never pan out and the finder 
> doesn't want to
> believe what you tell them anyway.  They think their ordinary rock or
> slag is worth millions and their ticket out of a bad economy.  There is a 
> serious increase in such inquiries and I find them to be a complete
> waste of time so I no longer provide references to credible laboratories.
>
> I find it best to ignore such inquiries as there is no way to win in such 
> circumstances. You will always be the bad guy or gal when you tell them it 
> is not a meteorite.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Spaceguard <mail at spaceguarduk.com>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 4:59:13 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] A query
>
> I received the following today.  Does anyone have any ideas, or can anyone 
> help Mr Bartley?
>
> Jay Tate
> The Spaceguard Centre
> http://www.spaceguarduk.com
>
>
> "hi, I found your site and believe the work you are doing is extremely 
> important.
> There was an impacts site in my area of Alabama , USA.  I have , on 
> several occasions, tried to contact the professor at Auburn University 
> that investigated the impact site to verify a few potential meteorites 
> with out success.  The department head took a quick look at a few samples 
> that I had taken to Auburn for review.  He stated he was extremely sure 
> they were real.
>
> As a novas, I tried to cut one to see what it was made of.  After wearing 
> out several hack saw blades, I obtained a diamond saw wheel and was able 
> to cut into the sample.  To my surprise there was a pocket of compressed 
> air inside. Really wished it had been inside a vacuum chamber.
> By chance to you have any contacts in the US that may be willing to review 
> some of the samples to see if there could be any value to science.
> Keep looking for potential NEOs.
>
> Richard W. W. Bartley, Sr   132 Bartley Lane Grady, Al 36036 
> 334-546-9734"
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From darryl at dof3.com  Mon Feb 22 08:20:05 2010
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:20:05 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina
Message-ID: <EB34791B-F1AC-484C-AB7E-EB09E95F7D2B@dof3.com>


Good Morning,

This past Tucson I was struck by so many of you coming up to me to  
express your regrets that Lovina, a sanctioned anomalous meteorite,  
turned out not to be a meteorite.  I advised that while the  
observations made by the Smithsonian which questioned Lovina's  
certification were fascinating, its status was not yet certain.

Today I have some news.

John Wasson, who requires no introduction, has stated the following:

"I am ready on the basis of the composition to state that I am  
convinced that Lovina is a meteorite.  The argument is that every  
single element is within the range commonly encountered in iron  
meteorites.  Metals that have been made by man will always differ from  
meteorites in terms of several elements."

The results of other research being done on this remarkable object  
will dutifully be reported.


All best / Darryl


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Mon Feb 22 08:47:47 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:47:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina
In-Reply-To: <EB34791B-F1AC-484C-AB7E-EB09E95F7D2B@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <2048408931.565261266846467313.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

Congrats Darryl!
That is great news!

Regards,
Michael Johnson
http://www.rocksfromspace.org

----- Original Message -----
From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
To: Adam List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:20:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina


Good Morning,

This past Tucson I was struck by so many of you coming up to me to  
express your regrets that Lovina, a sanctioned anomalous meteorite,  
turned out not to be a meteorite.  I advised that while the  
observations made by the Smithsonian which questioned Lovina's  
certification were fascinating, its status was not yet certain.

Today I have some news.

John Wasson, who requires no introduction, has stated the following:

"I am ready on the basis of the composition to state that I am  
convinced that Lovina is a meteorite.  The argument is that every  
single element is within the range commonly encountered in iron  
meteorites.  Metals that have been made by man will always differ from  
meteorites in terms of several elements."

The results of other research being done on this remarkable object  
will dutifully be reported.


All best / Darryl
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Mon Feb 22 08:48:55 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:48:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 22,
	2010
Message-ID: <1620877887.565421266846535647.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_22_2010.html



From nwa482 at comcast.net  Mon Feb 22 09:21:14 2010
From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:21:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
In-Reply-To: <186810596.1071151266847923933.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <567833185.1076481266848474878.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

Listees......

There was a lot of discussion at the Tucson show about the Lovina Iron Meteorite found in Indonesia in 1981.  It was first determined to be a meteorite, a very unusual meteorite in appearance.  Then news came out that it was possibly not a meteorite.  Anyway, the partslices looked so cool that I got one off of Darryl Pitt in Tucson.  I knew full well that the jury was still out.

Well, just received news this morning from Darryl that it is now back to being a meteorite.

Check out the photo of Lovina before cutting:

http://www.macovich.com/imagesOct2909/Lovina_large.jpg

I bet everybody that got a piece of this will be really stoked.  Congrats Darryl.

Jim Strope
421 Fourth Street
Glen Dale, WV  26038

http://www.catchafallingstar.com/


From majbaermann at web.de  Mon Feb 22 09:47:33 2010
From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:47:33 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
References: <567833185.1076481266848474878.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <DCE18DE1F1DC4F92B6B1AEF1B8B32B5D@thinkcentre>

Thanks, Jim, Darryll - as I already mentioned: simply incredible. Should 
have been found in the treasure of an old Aztec pyramide. (But Indonesian 
beach is okay too ;-)

Best regards,

Matthias


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>
To: "Meteorite Central" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:21 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron


> Listees......
>
> There was a lot of discussion at the Tucson show about the Lovina Iron 
> Meteorite found in Indonesia in 1981.  It was first determined to be a 
> meteorite, a very unusual meteorite in appearance.  Then news came out 
> that it was possibly not a meteorite.  Anyway, the partslices looked so 
> cool that I got one off of Darryl Pitt in Tucson.  I knew full well that 
> the jury was still out.
>
> Well, just received news this morning from Darryl that it is now back to 
> being a meteorite.
>
> Check out the photo of Lovina before cutting:
>
> http://www.macovich.com/imagesOct2909/Lovina_large.jpg
>
> I bet everybody that got a piece of this will be really stoked.  Congrats 
> Darryl.
>
> Jim Strope
> 421 Fourth Street
> Glen Dale, WV  26038
>
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From info at meteorites.com.au  Mon Feb 22 09:51:12 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:51:12 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
In-Reply-To: <DCE18DE1F1DC4F92B6B1AEF1B8B32B5D@thinkcentre>
References: <567833185.1076481266848474878.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<DCE18DE1F1DC4F92B6B1AEF1B8B32B5D@thinkcentre>
Message-ID: <1F4E9F810E7B46508F3B443D17432AA6@JeffPC>

Agreed! Great news and easily the most interesting looking meteorite I've 
ever seen!

Cheers,

Jeff

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matthias B?rmann" <majbaermann at web.de>
To: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>; "Meteorite Central" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron


> Thanks, Jim, Darryll - as I already mentioned: simply incredible. Should 
> have been found in the treasure of an old Aztec pyramide. (But Indonesian 
> beach is okay too ;-)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matthias
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>
> To: "Meteorite Central" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:21 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
>
>
>> Listees......
>>
>> There was a lot of discussion at the Tucson show about the Lovina Iron 
>> Meteorite found in Indonesia in 1981.  It was first determined to be a 
>> meteorite, a very unusual meteorite in appearance.  Then news came out 
>> that it was possibly not a meteorite.  Anyway, the partslices looked so 
>> cool that I got one off of Darryl Pitt in Tucson.  I knew full well that 
>> the jury was still out.
>>
>> Well, just received news this morning from Darryl that it is now back to 
>> being a meteorite.
>>
>> Check out the photo of Lovina before cutting:
>>
>> http://www.macovich.com/imagesOct2909/Lovina_large.jpg
>>
>> I bet everybody that got a piece of this will be really stoked.  Congrats 
>> Darryl.
>>
>> Jim Strope
>> 421 Fourth Street
>> Glen Dale, WV  26038
>>
>> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 22 12:13:06 2010
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:13:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina
Message-ID: <522461.38261.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Congratulations Darryl - 

I wonder what formation process can account for the unusual appearance?

Is it compositionally in accord with the meteoritic iron used in keris?

good hunting, 
E.P. 


      


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Mon Feb 22 12:30:48 2010
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:30:48 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
In-Reply-To: <1F4E9F810E7B46508F3B443D17432AA6@JeffPC>
References: <567833185.1076481266848474878.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>	<DCE18DE1F1DC4F92B6B1AEF1B8B32B5D@thinkcentre>
	<1F4E9F810E7B46508F3B443D17432AA6@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <4B82BF48.8000104@meteoritesusa.com>

I second that question... This is perhaps the oddest looking meteorite 
I've seen.

It appears to have some sort of mineral growth attached to it. Perhaps a 
mineralization which formed the crystalline pyramidal structures. The 
structures show no sign of ablation at all and appear to be too fragile 
to have survived atmospheric entry in such pristine shape. What are we 
looking at in those structures?

Regards,
Eric


On 2/22/2010 6:51 AM, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
> Agreed! Great news and easily the most interesting looking meteorite 
> I've ever seen!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthias B?rmann" 
> <majbaermann at web.de>
> To: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>; "Meteorite Central" 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
>
>
>> Thanks, Jim, Darryll - as I already mentioned: simply incredible. 
>> Should have been found in the treasure of an old Aztec pyramide. (But 
>> Indonesian beach is okay too ;-)
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Matthias
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>
>> To: "Meteorite Central" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:21 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
>>
>>
>>> Listees......
>>>
>>> There was a lot of discussion at the Tucson show about the Lovina 
>>> Iron Meteorite found in Indonesia in 1981.  It was first determined 
>>> to be a meteorite, a very unusual meteorite in appearance.  Then 
>>> news came out that it was possibly not a meteorite.  Anyway, the 
>>> partslices looked so cool that I got one off of Darryl Pitt in 
>>> Tucson.  I knew full well that the jury was still out.
>>>
>>> Well, just received news this morning from Darryl that it is now 
>>> back to being a meteorite.
>>>
>>> Check out the photo of Lovina before cutting:
>>>
>>> http://www.macovich.com/imagesOct2909/Lovina_large.jpg
>>>
>>> I bet everybody that got a piece of this will be really stoked.  
>>> Congrats Darryl.
>>>
>>> Jim Strope
>>> 421 Fourth Street
>>> Glen Dale, WV  26038
>>>
>>> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at 
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From cdtucson at cox.net  Mon Feb 22 12:35:22 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:35:22 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina
In-Reply-To: <EB34791B-F1AC-484C-AB7E-EB09E95F7D2B@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <20100222123522.2YVNA.198566.imail@fed1rmwml46>

Darryl, List,
 "Metals that have been made by man will always differ from  
> meteorites in terms of several elements." John Wasson.

All due respect to all involved here but, Please refresh my memory as I don't remember any mention that this may have been "man made"? I thought it was ruled out as meteoritic based on the fact that this material was naturally found in the area in which it was found? In addition the bottom section differed from the glorious top section. I have been told that Earth has a great variety of rock combinations still unknown to Man and can be any and all combinations of minerals. . 
In any case I am very pleased that John Wasson has taken a closer look at it. 
How do you explain the differences in opinions? Is there No test that can be done to prove it one way or the other ? Or is it a matter of opinion?  
I know as opinions go, Wasson has a great one. 
Carl

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote: 
> 
> Good Morning,
> 
> This past Tucson I was struck by so many of you coming up to me to  
> express your regrets that Lovina, a sanctioned anomalous meteorite,  
> turned out not to be a meteorite.  I advised that while the  
> observations made by the Smithsonian which questioned Lovina's  
> certification were fascinating, its status was not yet certain.
> 
> Today I have some news.
> 
> John Wasson, who requires no introduction, has stated the following:
> 
> "I am ready on the basis of the composition to state that I am  
> convinced that Lovina is a meteorite.  The argument is that every  
> single element is within the range commonly encountered in iron  
> meteorites.  Metals that have been made by man will always differ from  
> meteorites in terms of several elements."
> 
> The results of other research being done on this remarkable object  
> will dutifully be reported.
> 
> 
> All best / Darryl
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From balisterjames at att.net  Mon Feb 22 12:46:08 2010
From: balisterjames at att.net (James Balister)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:46:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina
In-Reply-To: <20100222123522.2YVNA.198566.imail@fed1rmwml46>
References: <20100222123522.2YVNA.198566.imail@fed1rmwml46>
Message-ID: <520818.96108.qm@web180112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Consider this, when the earth was made, we are told that it grew in size due to meteorite bombardment!? So in what form?? Magma? rocks?? dirt??? How much can still be detected?? When you find a large chunk of nickel, did it grow here on earth?? Or was it?deposited?here from a meteorite a long time ago?? We may never know the difference!



----- Original Message ----
> From: "cdtucson at cox.net" <cdtucson at cox.net>
> To: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>; meteoritelist <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Mon, February 22, 2010 11:35:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina
> 
> Darryl, List,
"Metals that have been made by man will always differ 
> from? 
> meteorites in terms of several elements." John 
> Wasson.

All due respect to all involved here but, Please refresh my 
> memory as I don't remember any mention that this may have been "man made"? I 
> thought it was ruled out as meteoritic based on the fact that this material was 
> naturally found in the area in which it was found? In addition the bottom 
> section differed from the glorious top section. I have been told that Earth has 
> a great variety of rock combinations still unknown to Man and can be any and all 
> combinations of minerals. . 
In any case I am very pleased that John Wasson 
> has taken a closer look at it. 
How do you explain the differences in 
> opinions? Is there No test that can be done to prove it one way or the other ? 
> Or is it a matter of opinion?? 
I know as opinions go, Wasson has a 
> great one. 
Carl

--
Carl or Debbie 
> Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Darryl Pitt <> ymailto="mailto:darryl at dof3.com" 
> href="mailto:darryl at dof3.com">darryl at dof3.com> wrote: 
> 
> 
> Good Morning,
> 
> This past Tucson I was struck by so many of you 
> coming up to me to? 
> express your regrets that Lovina, a sanctioned 
> anomalous meteorite,? 
> turned out not to be a meteorite.? I 
> advised that while the? 
> observations made by the Smithsonian which 
> questioned Lovina's? 
> certification were fascinating, its status 
> was not yet certain.
> 
> Today I have some news.
> 
> 
> John Wasson, who requires no introduction, has stated the following:
> 
> 
> "I am ready on the basis of the composition to state that I am? 
> 
> convinced that Lovina is a meteorite.? The argument is that 
> every? 
> single element is within the range commonly encountered in 
> iron? 
> meteorites.? Metals that have been made by man will 
> always differ from? 
> meteorites in terms of several 
> elements."
> 
> The results of other research being done on this 
> remarkable object? 
> will dutifully be reported.
> 
> 
> 
> All best / Darryl
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> 
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> > ymailto="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" 
> href="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> 
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
Visit 
> the Archives at > href="http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html" target=_blank 
> >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list 
> mailing list
> href="mailto:Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com">Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> href="http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list" target=_blank 
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de  Mon Feb 22 12:49:34 2010
From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (info at niger-meteorite-recon.de)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:49:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
In-Reply-To: <DCE18DE1F1DC4F92B6B1AEF1B8B32B5D@thinkcentre>
References: <567833185.1076481266848474878.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<DCE18DE1F1DC4F92B6B1AEF1B8B32B5D@thinkcentre>
Message-ID: <850955101.48720.1266860974955.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxltgw16.schlund.de>


?
Thats awesome news Darryl, my sincere congrats.
?
As Matthias already pointed out, if this iron was not from space, where else
could a mass so enigmatic and so utterly different in appearance come from? I
appreciate the fact that its extraterrestrial origin has been confirmed now.
Given the difficulties of determining the meteoritic origin, one is tempted to
expect further surprises along with the proceeding chemical and metallurgical
analysis.
?
As to the meteorite's particular morphology: I personally like the idea that in
the warm shallow waters of the Indopacific the erosive forces of nature are
working in unison with the local principles of artistry and style.
?
Svend
?
www.meteorite-recon.com
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>
> To: "Meteorite Central" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:21 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
>
>
> > Listees......
> >
> > There was a lot of discussion at the Tucson show about the Lovina Iron
> > Meteorite found in Indonesia in 1981.? It was first determined to be a
> > meteorite, a very unusual meteorite in appearance.? Then news came out
> > that it was possibly not a meteorite.? Anyway, the partslices looked so
> > cool that I got one off of Darryl Pitt in Tucson.? I knew full well that
> > the jury was still out.
> >
> > Well, just received news this morning from Darryl that it is now back to
> > being a meteorite.
> >
> > Check out the photo of Lovina before cutting:
> >
> > http://www.macovich.com/imagesOct2909/Lovina_large.jpg
> >
> > I bet everybody that got a piece of this will be really stoked.? Congrats
> > Darryl.
> >
> > Jim Strope
> > 421 Fourth Street
> > Glen Dale, WV? 26038
> >
> > http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From gmhupe at htn.net  Mon Feb 22 13:06:55 2010
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:06:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee & Whetstone monograph Auctions - AD
Message-ID: <02D8F73D55CC4D529D1833461AAFE62E@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

Starting in about four hours I have the following eBay auctions ending, and 
then 14 others ending on Wednesday, most are still at their LOW starting 
price of just 99 cents!

Whetstone Mountains monograph 'Unlimited Edition' (a paperback documentary
of Jack Schrader's epic discovery of the strewnfield, along with a small
number of other hunters). Starting at just one penny, you may ask, "Why?".
Simple, I purchased more than I needed to give to family and friends.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350317638956&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Buzzard Coulee H4 Meteorite w/ Legal Export Permits(Last one Left!):
12.5 gram Individual with 85% Primary/15% Secondary fusion crust.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170446937806&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Click here to see all of my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

Thank you for bidding and looking!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




From daistiho at hotmail.com  Mon Feb 22 13:09:19 2010
From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:09:19 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina
In-Reply-To: <522461.38261.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <522461.38261.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT120-W466E98E1D2109B23029FE9CA430@phx.gbl>


RE: Lovina's unusual appearance.? I had understood that it was due to the etching action of sea water on the crystalline structure of the iron, rather like 3-D Wiedmanstatten patterns.? What we are seeing is individual iron-nickel crystals that have been partly freed from the surrounding metal.

Best!
Tracy Latimer

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:13:06 -0800
> From: epgrondine at yahoo.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina
>
> Congratulations Darryl -
>
> I wonder what formation process can account for the unusual appearance?
>
> Is it compositionally in accord with the meteoritic iron used in keris?
>
> good hunting,
> E.P.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 13:11:36 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:11:36 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina
In-Reply-To: <SNT120-W466E98E1D2109B23029FE9CA430@phx.gbl>
References: <522461.38261.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<SNT120-W466E98E1D2109B23029FE9CA430@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e51421551002221011g277f7df7k47e4b52ea5228480@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tracy and List,

I am glad to hear that Lovinas is a meteorite.  But, regardless of
it's origin, it is an amazing aesthetic specimen.  Even if it was some
sort of terrestrial product, it's otherworldly beauty would look great
in any display case.

Has anyone tried to etch a piece of it yet?  (or did I miss that part)

Best regards,

MikeG


On 2/22/10, tracy latimer <daistiho at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> RE: Lovina's unusual appearance.  I had understood that it was due to the
> etching action of sea water on the crystalline structure of the iron, rather
> like 3-D Wiedmanstatten patterns.  What we are seeing is individual
> iron-nickel crystals that have been partly freed from the surrounding metal.
>
> Best!
> Tracy Latimer
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:13:06 -0800
>> From: epgrondine at yahoo.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina
>>
>> Congratulations Darryl -
>>
>> I wonder what formation process can account for the unusual appearance?
>>
>> Is it compositionally in accord with the meteoritic iron used in keris?
>>
>> good hunting,
>> E.P.
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>  		 	   		
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From darryl at dof3.com  Mon Feb 22 13:23:09 2010
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:23:09 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina
In-Reply-To: <20100222123522.2YVNA.198566.imail@fed1rmwml46>
References: <20100222123522.2YVNA.198566.imail@fed1rmwml46>
Message-ID: <7499380E-9417-446C-A8BC-CF4F2DFBADB0@dof3.com>


Hi there,

At an effort to provide some clarity....

Lovina had been a certified as a meteorite by the Nomenclature  
Committee.

The more recent concern was that Lovina was an artifact and toda it  
was announced that its elemental fingerprint demonstrates otherwise.

The artifact issue can be found in the archives of the list.  The  
observations made which questioned Lovina's certification were smart  
and inspired.  For purposes of clarity, the ziggurat (pyramidal)  
structures are the result of this nickel-rich material having been in  
solution (the shallows of Bali) for centuries.

Lovina had been classified as an anomalous iron...and it's a bit more  
anomalous then had been imagined.


Hope this helps.  /d,





On Feb 22, 2010, at 12:35 PM, <cdtucson at cox.net> <cdtucson at cox.net>  
wrote:

> Darryl, List,
> "Metals that have been made by man will always differ from
>> meteorites in terms of several elements." John Wasson.
>
> All due respect to all involved here but, Please refresh my memory  
> as I don't remember any mention that this may have been "man made"?  
> I thought it was ruled out as meteoritic based on the fact that this  
> material was naturally found in the area in which it was found? In  
> addition the bottom section differed from the glorious top section.  
> I have been told that Earth has a great variety of rock combinations  
> still unknown to Man and can be any and all combinations of  
> minerals. .
> In any case I am very pleased that John Wasson has taken a closer  
> look at it.
> How do you explain the differences in opinions? Is there No test  
> that can be done to prove it one way or the other ? Or is it a  
> matter of opinion?
> I know as opinions go, Wasson has a great one.
> Carl
>
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
>
>
> ---- Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
>>
>> Good Morning,
>>
>> This past Tucson I was struck by so many of you coming up to me to
>> express your regrets that Lovina, a sanctioned anomalous meteorite,
>> turned out not to be a meteorite.  I advised that while the
>> observations made by the Smithsonian which questioned Lovina's
>> certification were fascinating, its status was not yet certain.
>>
>> Today I have some news.
>>
>> John Wasson, who requires no introduction, has stated the following:
>>
>> "I am ready on the basis of the composition to state that I am
>> convinced that Lovina is a meteorite.  The argument is that every
>> single element is within the range commonly encountered in iron
>> meteorites.  Metals that have been made by man will always differ  
>> from
>> meteorites in terms of several elements."
>>
>> The results of other research being done on this remarkable object
>> will dutifully be reported.
>>
>>
>> All best / Darryl
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



From darryl at dof3.com  Mon Feb 22 13:29:33 2010
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:29:33 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002221011g277f7df7k47e4b52ea5228480@mail.gmail.com>
References: <522461.38261.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<SNT120-W466E98E1D2109B23029FE9CA430@phx.gbl>
	<e51421551002221011g277f7df7k47e4b52ea5228480@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9D635E89-3CFC-47F2-B77F-BC75F4EF4DCA@dof3.com>


Hi,

An image of an etched section will soon be a pic of the day which  
reveals the grains.

A slice which does not reveal the grains can be seen here....

http://www.macovich.com/imagesOct2909/Lovina_31.53g.jpg





On Feb 22, 2010, at 1:11 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:

> Hi Tracy and List,
>
> I am glad to hear that Lovinas is a meteorite.  But, regardless of
> it's origin, it is an amazing aesthetic specimen.  Even if it was some
> sort of terrestrial product, it's otherworldly beauty would look great
> in any display case.
>
> Has anyone tried to etch a piece of it yet?  (or did I miss that part)
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 2/22/10, tracy latimer <daistiho at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> RE: Lovina's unusual appearance.  I had understood that it was due  
>> to the
>> etching action of sea water on the crystalline structure of the  
>> iron, rather
>> like 3-D Wiedmanstatten patterns.  What we are seeing is individual
>> iron-nickel crystals that have been partly freed from the  
>> surrounding metal.
>>
>> Best!
>> Tracy Latimer
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:13:06 -0800
>>> From: epgrondine at yahoo.com
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina
>>>
>>> Congratulations Darryl -
>>>
>>> I wonder what formation process can account for the unusual  
>>> appearance?
>>>
>>> Is it compositionally in accord with the meteoritic iron used in  
>>> keris?
>>>
>>> good hunting,
>>> E.P.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 		 	   		
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From maurizio.eltri at libero.it  Mon Feb 22 13:39:40 2010
From: maurizio.eltri at libero.it (Maurizio Eltri)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:39:40 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] new site on meteorites
Message-ID: <4B7B1273005FF957@cp-out7.libero.it> (added by
	postmaster@cp-out7.libero.it)

Hi,

with pleasure I inform you of my new site about the
meteorites, unfortunately only in Italian language at
present: http://www.meteoriti.info/

A greeting to all

Maurizio 



From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 14:11:10 2010
From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:11:10 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Meteorite books for sale
Message-ID: <6f9da8301002221111w535b59f6u3445d28d5ed4b195@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All
I have recently picked up a couple of new meteorite books. The first
is Alain Carion's 3rd edition of his fantastic works Meteorites. This
edition has been completely updated with many new color pictures. The
cost is now $20 which is quite a bargain for this glossy high quality
71 page softcover book. It is a great book for novices as well as
seasoned collectors so be sure to order it quickly as my supplies are
limited.

The second book is The History of Meteoritics and Key Meteorite
Collections (2005). This massive 502 page hard cover book is filled
with loads of information about the history of meteorites/meteoritics.
The last book to cover this topic so extensively was Cosmic Debris in
1976 by John Burke. It also includes several sections on the history
of several of the larger meteorite collections around the world. I
only had two disappointments with the book; first the ASU collection
is not included and second was the initial price. It still sells for
around $200 per copy. But I managed to pick up 5 copies still in the
original wraps for a much lower price. I will sell them for for a
limited time at $90 each!

Here is a pdf showing the first 10 pages of the book;
http://sp.lyellcollection.org/cgi/issue_pdf/frontmatter_pdf/256/1.pdf

As an additional incentive buy either copy of the books and get free
shipping in the USA. If you buy both books with free shipping in the
USA plus get an additional free copy of Carion's second edition. In
other words $110 for 3 fantastic books that are valued at nearly
double this price.



Mike



Mike Jensen Meteorites
16730 E Ada PL
Aurora, CO 80017-3137
USA
303-337-4361
IMCA 4264
website: www.jensenmeteorites.com


From majbaermann at web.de  Mon Feb 22 15:03:29 2010
From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:03:29 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] new site on meteorites
References: <4B7B1273005FF957@cp-out7.libero.it> (added
	bypostmaster@cp-out7.libero.it)
Message-ID: <5F047C4345A840079B45925A3B734991@thinkcentre>

Hi Maurizio,

very nice website indeed - complimenti e grazie.

Con saluti,

Matthias


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Maurizio Eltri" <maurizio.eltri at libero.it>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 7:39 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] new site on meteorites


> Hi,
>
> with pleasure I inform you of my new site about the
> meteorites, unfortunately only in Italian language at
> present: http://www.meteoriti.info/
>
> A greeting to all
>
> Maurizio
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From cynapse at charter.net  Mon Feb 22 16:04:26 2010
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:04:26 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Check out this meteor!
In-Reply-To: <4B7B1273005FF957@cp-out7.libero.it> (added by
	postmaster@cp-out7.libero.it)
References: <4B7B1273005FF957@cp-out7.libero.it> (added by
	postmaster@cp-out7.libero.it)
Message-ID: <9as5o55ib3a69hk70ml77ichc279gtr13c@4ax.com>

http://twitpic.com/14of2q


From abudka at nycap.rr.com  Mon Feb 22 18:47:31 2010
From: abudka at nycap.rr.com (abudka at nycap.rr.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:47:31 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina
Message-ID: <20100222234731.X0EO4.24174.root@cdptpa-web21-z02>

Lovina is full of beautiful iron-nickel DENDRITES!  A ?dendrite indicates a linear, branched structure of which the arms are all parallel to specific crystallographic directions? (1).  AND, dendritic morphology (of which there are various kinds) always indicates non-equilibrium solidification.  Furthermore, if Lovina IS a meteorite, throw in the concept that Lovina must have solidified under different gravitational conditions than the 1g we know on earth (perhaps microgravity?).

While unusual ? but not unknown in the meteoritics world, such structures are familiar to casting metallurgists.  Iron dendrites found in pockets and veins in the Yanzhuang H6 meteorite are characterized in papers by Li Z. et al. (2) and Brooks et Al. (3).

A though experiment: Thicken Lovina?s dendritic branches, give it more melt liquid and more time to grow in low gravity ? and what do you have?  The Widmanst?tten structure!

An alternate interpretation of the meteoritic Widmanst?tten structure as a primary crystallization, 3-dimensional dendritic structure solidified under non-equilibrium microgravity conditions is found at my website,

http://meteormetals.com/

For background on the circular reasoning behind how meteoritic Widmanst?tten morphology became the Widmanst?tten mechanism, click Learn More at my website.


Phyllis Budka
abudka at nycap.rr.com

References:
1. Chalmers, Bruce, ?Principles of Solidification Processing,? 1977 edition, p. 92.
2. Li Z., Xie X., and Zhang D. Meteoritics 27, 249.
3. Brooks, C., Biery, N., Li Z., Xie X., and Zhang D., Materials Characterization 35:165-174 (1995).



From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Mon Feb 22 18:52:54 2010
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:52:54 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lots of 'new' meteorites!
In-Reply-To: <n8k3o5tua98vv9ovhhf6s53dashvhbckd8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20100222235254.FEEPW.849362.root@web05-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>


All of a sudden everyone knows they have a meteorite and wants to sell it...do you think they've been watching too much science channel?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320488987311
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320488986235
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320488985109

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220557527060

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190374127732

No doubt we will be seeing many more...oh what fun!

Just hope it doesn't completely mess up new collectors confidence in the genuine market if they get duped!

Graham E, UK




From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Mon Feb 22 19:46:01 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:46:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] METEORITE HUNTER NEWSLETTER
Message-ID: <533366454.704681266885961293.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

Posting this for my friend Michael Cottingham:

http://www.spacerocksinc.com/METEORITE_HUNTER_NEWSLETTER.html


Regards,
Michael Johnson



From dfpens01 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 22 21:32:43 2010
From: dfpens01 at yahoo.com (David Pensenstadler)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:32:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Microscope search
In-Reply-To: <1a378.8a8abc0.38b0afed@aol.com>
Message-ID: <190831.7470.qm@web112314.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Some of the folks on the Paleolist have recommended the Celestron and Dino-micro scopes in the links below.  They appear to be very well suited for low power images at a reasonable price:

 
http://www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?CatID=81&ProdID=557
 
YouTube videos
 
http://tinyurl.com/ydbgx57
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/user/DinoMicro#p/u/4/HpqCR4SnEgo
 
I was not aware of these and think they would be great for both a beginner and a more advanced person.

Dave

Dave
 

--- On Fri, 2/19/10, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com <STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com> wrote:

> From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com <STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Microscope search
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 10:24 PM
> Hi list, Richard is absolutely right
> when he? said.? "so a simple $100 
> stereo microscope might be enough to get your feet?
> wet and help solidify the 
> direction you want to go if, I mean when you purchase?
> your next microscope!"
> 
> 
> He touches on an aspect that meteorite and? microscope
> enthusiasts have 
> known since our first scope.? It is more?
> interesting close up.? Any specimen 
> in your collection is much more? interesting when you
> can observe the 
> subtleties that make it different from the? rest.
> 
> If you care to look at the micrographs of Angrites in my
> gallery? you will 
> know what I am saying.
> 
> I might also add.? I have? inexpensive some Xpol
> scopes that are beautiful 
> to look at thin sections? in.? I don't take
> micrographs with these scopes 
> but for observation they? are wonderful and even with
> the setup I use to take 
> micrographs on, the view? first hand is 10X better
> than a picture.? I would 
> even say that the? observational view in one of these
> inexpensive scopes is 
> better than the best? micrograph I can produce.
> 
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> In a message dated 2/19/2010? 7:40:05 P.M. Mountain
> Standard Time, 
> damoclid at yahoo.com
> writes:
> Hey? Paul.
> 
> A seemingly simple question with literally hundreds of
> answers. I? just 
> purchased a microscope, but I think my needs were possibly
> very different? than 
> many of the people on this list.
> 
> Here's a few questions to ask? yourself before you can
> narrow down the 
> microscope that is right for? you.
> 
> How much can you budget for the microscope?
> 
> Do you only want? to view individuals and slices at
> lower power to see the 
> details you mention? better, or do you want to view
> thin sections in 
> polarized light at high? magnification?
> 
> Do you want to do photography of your? meteorites?
> 
> Do you want to view things other than meteorites, ie.?
> biological specimens?
> 
> If you simply want to view your specimens magnified?
> and have no plans to 
> view or photograph thin sections, you can find a
> reasonably? good 10x - 30x 
> stereo microscope for about $100. For another $50 you can
> find a? VGA webcam 
> that can be mounted where one of the eyepieces goes and
> view your? specimens 
> on your computer screen.
> 
> Of course if you want to have a? microscope that can
> "do everything" you're 
> going to have to have a very large? budget. But, as
> you can see on Tom's 
> page, he has multiple microscopes to do? what he
> needs, so a simple $100 
> stereo microscope might be enough to get your? feet
> wet and help solidify the 
> direction you want to go if, I mean when you? purchase
> your next microscope!
> 
> I can tell you more about the microscope I? just
> purchased and why I got 
> what I did privately if you are? interested.
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Full Moon Photography
> IMCA? #1081
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Paul G. Spears <pgspears at cox.net>?
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Paul G. Spears <pgspears at cox.net>
> >? Subject: [meteorite-list] Microscope search
> > To:? meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Friday, February 19, 2010,? 3:20 PM
> > Hi, all:
> > My eyes need a little help seeing the finer?
> details of
> > metal, mineral, shock, and crystals in meteorite
> >? slices.? A microscope would be helpful, and
> I surmise
> > that many of? the scores of scopes out there
> could be
> > useful.? Has anyone been? particularly
> impressed by
> > his/her scope's features and functions when? used
> for this
> > purpose?
> > 
> > Any tips, or cautions, for? selecting a starter
> microscope
> > will be appreciated.? I would be? willing to
> pay more
> > for a scope with features everyone feels are?
> essential, and
> > would consider new or used, if anyone has
> recently? upgraded
> > and has a reliable unit that needs a new home.
> > 
> >? My wife, Grace, and I had an unbelievably great
> experience
> > at the Tucson? show!? It was our first time
> there and,
> > if you have never attended? before, we encourage
> you to be
> > there at your first opportunity as it is? an
> experience you
> > will never forget.
> > Regards,
> > Paul G.? Spears
> > IMCA #3272
> > 
> > 
> >? ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at? 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >? Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >? 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at? 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list? mailing? list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list???
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From dfronfld at hiwaay.net  Mon Feb 22 22:36:37 2010
From: dfronfld at hiwaay.net (Dan Fronefield)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:36:37 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] 300 lb Gibeon FS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.24.1266872630.9624.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.24.1266872630.9624.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <012d01cab439$741577e0$5c4067a0$@net>

I offered to post a very nice looking 300lb Gibeon meteorite for sale;
offered at $100K (offers considered).  If you know of anyone who might be
interested, please contact the owner Irma Muller [enikom3 at gmail.com].
Please do not contact me.  I know that she may have contacted some of you
directly, so please forgive the double email. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14263495 at N03/

Dan Fronefield

Meteor Forge
http://Meteorforge.net
"Specializing in meteorites and other exotic materials"




From info at meteorites.com.au  Tue Feb 23 01:45:20 2010
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:45:20 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
In-Reply-To: <4B82BF48.8000104@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <567833185.1076481266848474878.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>	<DCE18DE1F1DC4F92B6B1AEF1B8B32B5D@thinkcentre><1F4E9F810E7B46508F3B443D17432AA6@JeffPC>
	<4B82BF48.8000104@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <BC07A2FC5483497F8ABA6255D1E53E2E@JeffPC>

While I don't actually know (so don't assume it's anywhere near correct) I 
would presume the pyramidal feature is a result of weathering in the 
tropical climate exposing the crystalline structure of the meteorite and 
it's different minerals. (i.e. kamacite, taenite, etc, etc.) I would also 
assume the extremely high nickel content helped the whole thing from pulling 
a Nantan and allowing this to occur.

Does anyone actually know how this occured?

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:30 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron


I second that question... This is perhaps the oddest looking meteorite
I've seen.

It appears to have some sort of mineral growth attached to it. Perhaps a
mineralization which formed the crystalline pyramidal structures. The
structures show no sign of ablation at all and appear to be too fragile
to have survived atmospheric entry in such pristine shape. What are we
looking at in those structures?

Regards,
Eric


On 2/22/2010 6:51 AM, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
> Agreed! Great news and easily the most interesting looking meteorite I've 
> ever seen!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthias B?rmann" <majbaermann at web.de>
> To: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>; "Meteorite Central" 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
>
>
>> Thanks, Jim, Darryll - as I already mentioned: simply incredible. Should 
>> have been found in the treasure of an old Aztec pyramide. (But Indonesian 
>> beach is okay too ;-)
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Matthias
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>
>> To: "Meteorite Central" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:21 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
>>
>>
>>> Listees......
>>>
>>> There was a lot of discussion at the Tucson show about the Lovina Iron 
>>> Meteorite found in Indonesia in 1981.  It was first determined to be a 
>>> meteorite, a very unusual meteorite in appearance.  Then news came out 
>>> that it was possibly not a meteorite.  Anyway, the partslices looked so 
>>> cool that I got one off of Darryl Pitt in Tucson.  I knew full well that 
>>> the jury was still out.
>>>
>>> Well, just received news this morning from Darryl that it is now back to 
>>> being a meteorite.
>>>
>>> Check out the photo of Lovina before cutting:
>>>
>>> http://www.macovich.com/imagesOct2909/Lovina_large.jpg
>>>
>>> I bet everybody that got a piece of this will be really stoked. 
>>> Congrats Darryl.
>>>
>>> Jim Strope
>>> 421 Fourth Street
>>> Glen Dale, WV  26038
>>>
>>> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at 
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Tue Feb 23 02:31:51 2010
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:31:51 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
References: <567833185.1076481266848474878.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>	<DCE18DE1F1DC4F92B6B1AEF1B8B32B5D@thinkcentre><1F4E9F810E7B46508F3B443D17432AA6@JeffPC><4B82BF48.8000104@meteoritesusa.com>
	<BC07A2FC5483497F8ABA6255D1E53E2E@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <50CEA61C86F44E07AE26EC0B753CF700@ATARIENGINE2>

I think what we all assume, just from looking at
the remarkable photograph, is that these pyramids
are the taenite portion of the meteorite and that
sea water, oxygen, UV light, and all the agents of
weathering has eaten the kamacite away entirely
to miraculously reveal it.

Both iron phases, taemite and kamacite, are
isometric-hexoctahedral crystals, which is a
fancy geometry term for a unit crystal shaped
like two four-sided pyramids fitted base-to-base.
More commonly this is called a "cubic" crystal.

The "pyramids" in Lovina are "step" pyramids. I'm
guessing that the height of those "steps" corresponds
to what would be the width of the Widmanst?tten
bands if the original structure were in place and
we could slice and etch it.

It is a remarkable chance to "look inside" the crystal
structure of an iron meteorite in three dimensions
and with "x-ray" vision. What it shows is something
I don't think any imaging technique could ever
produce.

I'm not a petrologist, you understand, just an old
physicist and anything bigger than an atom (like
crystals) is above my pay grade. These are just
my guesses.

It certainly is pretty, though.


Sterling K. Webb
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Kuyken" <info at meteorites.com.au>
To: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron


While I don't actually know (so don't assume it's anywhere near correct) 
I
would presume the pyramidal feature is a result of weathering in the
tropical climate exposing the crystalline structure of the meteorite and
it's different minerals. (i.e. kamacite, taenite, etc, etc.) I would 
also
assume the extremely high nickel content helped the whole thing from 
pulling
a Nantan and allowing this to occur.

Does anyone actually know how this occured?

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:30 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron


I second that question... This is perhaps the oddest looking meteorite
I've seen.

It appears to have some sort of mineral growth attached to it. Perhaps a
mineralization which formed the crystalline pyramidal structures. The
structures show no sign of ablation at all and appear to be too fragile
to have survived atmospheric entry in such pristine shape. What are we
looking at in those structures?

Regards,
Eric


On 2/22/2010 6:51 AM, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
> Agreed! Great news and easily the most interesting looking meteorite 
> I've ever seen!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthias B?rmann" 
> <majbaermann at web.de>
> To: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>; "Meteorite Central" 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
>
>
>> Thanks, Jim, Darryll - as I already mentioned: simply incredible. 
>> Should have been found in the treasure of an old Aztec pyramide. (But 
>> Indonesian beach is okay too ;-)
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Matthias
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>
>> To: "Meteorite Central" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:21 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
>>
>>
>>> Listees......
>>>
>>> There was a lot of discussion at the Tucson show about the Lovina 
>>> Iron Meteorite found in Indonesia in 1981.  It was first determined 
>>> to be a meteorite, a very unusual meteorite in appearance.  Then 
>>> news came out that it was possibly not a meteorite.  Anyway, the 
>>> partslices looked so cool that I got one off of Darryl Pitt in 
>>> Tucson.  I knew full well that the jury was still out.
>>>
>>> Well, just received news this morning from Darryl that it is now 
>>> back to being a meteorite.
>>>
>>> Check out the photo of Lovina before cutting:
>>>
>>> http://www.macovich.com/imagesOct2909/Lovina_large.jpg
>>>
>>> I bet everybody that got a piece of this will be really stoked. 
>>> Congrats Darryl.
>>>
>>> Jim Strope
>>> 421 Fourth Street
>>> Glen Dale, WV  26038
>>>
>>> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at 
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca  Tue Feb 23 03:00:58 2010
From: miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca (Melanie Matthews)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:00:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Young Earth Creationist's explaination on
	meteorites
Message-ID: <707913.51358.qm@web114008.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l188/dhawkinsmo/flood_meteorites.jpg&imgrefurl=http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D23%26t%3D10675%26start%3D50&usg=__XKHQPlONAPvDQ5DUzCHjxX3f11g=&h=446&w=800&sz=86&hl=en&start=50&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=zw3vj4AeBmin9M:&tbnh=80&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmeteorites%26start%3D36%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26channel%3Ds%26ndsp%3D18%26tbs%3Disch:1
Scroll down to the third post. Thought I'd post this for some LOLs! 

Fossil remains of ancient meteorites HAVE been found.. 

 -----------
Melanie
IMCA: 2975
eBay: metmel2775
Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09

Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know what you're gonna get!



      __________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! 

http://www.flickr.com/gift/



From steve.dunklee at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 07:31:26 2010
From: steve.dunklee at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:31:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 15 lunar rock sample
Message-ID: <960957.48602.qm@web113906.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Please check out this link if you have an interest.
Cheers
Steve Dunklee
http://www.mindat.org/photo-288541.html



      


From steve.dunklee at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 07:37:22 2010
From: steve.dunklee at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:37:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mindat.org auctions
Message-ID: <864844.98348.qm@web113920.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

you may want to auction your meteorites at mindat.org to avoid e-bay
Cheers
Steve Dunklee
http://www.mindat.org/auctions.php



      



From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 12:51:39 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:51:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Auctions/Thoughts
Message-ID: <521892.9764.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,
 
I have many great auctions ending this afternoon.  You will find the most 
complete assemblage of rarities currently available on eBay.  I will be adding 
more new items each week as my final inventory comes out of preparation.  It is 
becoming increasingly difficult, if not impossible to replace this inventory 
once it is sold so you may want to take advantage of some of these offerings 
while the price is the lowest it has been in history.
 
I imagine there will be a lot of complaints when Martian material is back 
up to $1,000.00/gram when it can be had for a fraction of this price right now. 
The planetary find trend is way off and peaked a few years ago. It will not be 
long before the price catches up as the supply is depleted.  Even Antarctica is 
running dry in this sector, something I thought was not possible just a few 
years ago.  Although Northwest Africa has handily overtaken Antarctica in 
planetary finds, I thought that the long-term trend was in Antarctica's favor 
but this does not seem to be the case any more.  I always thought that the tortoise beat the hare! 

 
I wonder what the next plateau will be once these places have been swept clean?      

 

All Auctions Can Be Found At This link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ



Thank 
you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck.


Best Regards,

------------------------------------
Adam 
Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
raremeteorites at yahoo.com 


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 13:40:02 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:40:02 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Auctions/Thoughts
In-Reply-To: <521892.9764.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <521892.9764.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002231040y6db5175x5b6bc802dd128c49@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Adam and List,

I don't pretend to be an experienced or knowledgeable as you or some
of the other veterans, but I have noticed some trends since I started
out in the meteorite world three years ago.  When I first started out,
I could buy kilos of uNWA material for .05 cents a gram, and that
included nice dark specimens that weren't covered in caliche.  I'd buy
a couple of kilos and I had a hard time letting most of the pieces go,
because each kilo contained several stones that had relatively-fresh
crust, thumbprints, and other desirable features.  Now, if you can
find a kilo for .05 cents a gram (without buying 100 kilos), you get a
batch of heavily-weathered crap that is only fit for a rock tumbler.

I've talked to several "old timers" and they all seem to agree that
the Saharan situation is unique.  There is not another Morocco waiting
in the wings - when the offerings from the Sahara finally peter out,
that's it.  Don't expect China to open up the Gobi (which is covered
in dark native rocks and would be a nightmare to search), and the
world's other hot deserts are in countries that frown upon open
exports of material - like Australia.

The good news is, there is literally tons of uNWA material sitting in
stockpiles and that material is going to keep the market stocked for a
long time to come.  The bad news is, the good prices are rapidly
becoming a memory.  Don't expect cheap deals when those stockpiles are
opened up and distributed.

I only wish I had taken out loans and got myself a dozen credit cards
and maxxed them out on every nice uNWA I could find 3 years ago.  Now
I find myself unable to purchase the kind of material I like to
collect because I simply can't afford it.  When it comes to paying the
electric bill, or buying a fresh dark crusted uNWA, I have to pay
bills.

I recently sold off 90% of my personal collection of over 100
localities - to pay medical bills.  I seriously doubt I will be able
to replace many of those pieces because the replacements will cost
several times what I paid originally.

So Adam is speaking the truth - bid now and bid often.  I would if I could.

Best regards and happy huntings,

MikeG

http://www.galactic-stone.com




On 2/23/10, Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear List Members,
>
> I have many great auctions ending this afternoon.  You will find the most
> complete assemblage of rarities currently available on eBay.  I will be
> adding
> more new items each week as my final inventory comes out of preparation.  It
> is
> becoming increasingly difficult, if not impossible to replace this inventory
> once it is sold so you may want to take advantage of some of these offerings
> while the price is the lowest it has been in history.
>
> I imagine there will be a lot of complaints when Martian material is back
> up to $1,000.00/gram when it can be had for a fraction of this price right
> now.
> The planetary find trend is way off and peaked a few years ago. It will not
> be
> long before the price catches up as the supply is depleted.  Even Antarctica
> is
> running dry in this sector, something I thought was not possible just a few
> years ago.  Although Northwest Africa has handily overtaken Antarctica in
> planetary finds, I thought that the long-term trend was in Antarctica's
> favor
> but this does not seem to be the case any more.  I always thought that the
> tortoise beat the hare!
>
>
> I wonder what the next plateau will be once these places have been swept
> clean?
>
>
>
> All Auctions Can Be Found At This link:
> http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ
>
>
>
> Thank
> you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> ------------------------------------
> Adam
> Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> Team LunarRock
> IMCA 2185
> raremeteorites at yahoo.com
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From Marc.D.Fries at jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Feb 23 13:49:07 2010
From: Marc.D.Fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D (3225))
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:49:07 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
In-Reply-To: <50CEA61C86F44E07AE26EC0B753CF700@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <C7A96323.102C2%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>


What a beautiful meteorite!  My first take on it is that it must have
crystallized directly from a melt.  The pyramidal forms looks like dendrites
complete with a preferred orientation.  Dendrites do not form in solids like
Widmannstatten patterns do ? they form by solidification from a liquid.  If
that?s what we?re looking at here and not just some sort of
corrosion-etching effect, then it appears that this solidified directly from
an iron/nickel melt without significant recrystallization afterwards.   It
will be fun to see what comes of this.  I think we all know that photographs
never tell the whole story.

Cheers,
Marc Fries


On 2/22/10 11:31 PM, "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> I think what we all assume, just from looking at
> the remarkable photograph, is that these pyramids
> are the taenite portion of the meteorite and that
> sea water, oxygen, UV light, and all the agents of
> weathering has eaten the kamacite away entirely
> to miraculously reveal it.
> 
> Both iron phases, taemite and kamacite, are
> isometric-hexoctahedral crystals, which is a
> fancy geometry term for a unit crystal shaped
> like two four-sided pyramids fitted base-to-base.
> More commonly this is called a "cubic" crystal.
> 
> The "pyramids" in Lovina are "step" pyramids. I'm
> guessing that the height of those "steps" corresponds
> to what would be the width of the Widmanst?tten
> bands if the original structure were in place and
> we could slice and etch it.
> 
> It is a remarkable chance to "look inside" the crystal
> structure of an iron meteorite in three dimensions
> and with "x-ray" vision. What it shows is something
> I don't think any imaging technique could ever
> produce.
> 
> I'm not a petrologist, you understand, just an old
> physicist and anything bigger than an atom (like
> crystals) is above my pay grade. These are just
> my guesses.
> 
> It certainly is pretty, though.
> 
> 
> Sterling K. Webb
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Kuyken" <info at meteorites.com.au>
> To: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>;
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
> 
> 
> While I don't actually know (so don't assume it's anywhere near correct)
> I
> would presume the pyramidal feature is a result of weathering in the
> tropical climate exposing the crystalline structure of the meteorite and
> it's different minerals. (i.e. kamacite, taenite, etc, etc.) I would
> also
> assume the extremely high nickel content helped the whole thing from
> pulling
> a Nantan and allowing this to occur.
> 
> Does anyone actually know how this occured?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
> 
> 
> I second that question... This is perhaps the oddest looking meteorite
> I've seen.
> 
> It appears to have some sort of mineral growth attached to it. Perhaps a
> mineralization which formed the crystalline pyramidal structures. The
> structures show no sign of ablation at all and appear to be too fragile
> to have survived atmospheric entry in such pristine shape. What are we
> looking at in those structures?
> 
> Regards,
> Eric
> 
> 
> On 2/22/2010 6:51 AM, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
>> Agreed! Great news and easily the most interesting looking meteorite
>> I've ever seen!
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthias B?rmann"
>> <majbaermann at web.de>
>> To: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>; "Meteorite Central"
>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
>> 
>> 
>>> Thanks, Jim, Darryll - as I already mentioned: simply incredible.
>>> Should have been found in the treasure of an old Aztec pyramide. (But
>>> Indonesian beach is okay too ;-)
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Matthias
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>
>>> To: "Meteorite Central" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:21 PM
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Listees......
>>>> 
>>>> There was a lot of discussion at the Tucson show about the Lovina
>>>> Iron Meteorite found in Indonesia in 1981.  It was first determined
>>>> to be a meteorite, a very unusual meteorite in appearance.  Then
>>>> news came out that it was possibly not a meteorite.  Anyway, the
>>>> partslices looked so cool that I got one off of Darryl Pitt in
>>>> Tucson.  I knew full well that the jury was still out.
>>>> 
>>>> Well, just received news this morning from Darryl that it is now
>>>> back to being a meteorite.
>>>> 
>>>> Check out the photo of Lovina before cutting:
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.macovich.com/imagesOct2909/Lovina_large.jpg
>>>> 
>>>> I bet everybody that got a piece of this will be really stoked.
>>>> Congrats Darryl.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim Strope
>>>> 421 Fourth Street
>>>> Glen Dale, WV  26038
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> 
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Feb 23 14:20:07 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:20:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Behold the Violent History of Saturn's White Whale
	Moon (Prometheus)
Message-ID: <201002231920.o1NJK7bI020642@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-057  

Behold the Violent History of Saturn's White Whale Moon
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
February 19, 2010

Like the battered white whale Moby Dick taunting Captain Ahab, Saturn's
moon Prometheus surges toward the viewer in a 3-D image from NASA's
Cassini spacecraft.

The image exposes the irregular shape and circular surface scars on
Prometheus, pointing to a violent history. These craters are probably
the remnants from impacts long ago.

Prometheus is one of Saturn's innermost moons. It orbits the gas-giant
at a distance of about 140,000 kilometers (86,000 miles) and is 86
kilometers (53 miles) across at its widest point. The porous, icy world
was originally discovered in images taken by NASA's Voyager 1 spacecraft
back in 1980.

Cassini's narrow-angle camera captured two black-and-white images of the
moon on Dec. 26, 2009, and the imaging team combined the images to make
this new stereo view. It looks different from the "egg-cellent" raw
image of Prometheus obtained on Jan. 27
<http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-034> because that
view shows one of the short ends of the oddly shaped moon. In this 3-D
image, the sun illuminates Prometheus at a different angle, making the
moon's elongated body visible.

The Cassini Equinox Mission is a joint United States and European
endeavor. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California
Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the mission for NASA's
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. The Cassini orbiter was
designed, developed and assembled at JPL. For more information about the
Cassini Equinox Mission visit: http://www.nasa.gov/cassini and
http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov.

Jia-Rui C. Cook 818-354-0850
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
jia-rui.c.cook at jpl.nasa.gov

2010-057



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Feb 23 14:25:03 2010
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:25:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Stellar, Metal-Free Way to Make Carbon Nanotubes
Message-ID: <201002231925.o1NJP3PY022010@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.nasa.gov/topics/technology/features/metal-free-nanotubules.html

A Stellar, Metal-Free Way to Make Carbon Nanotubes
Elizabeth Zubritsky
Goddard Space Flight Center
February 22, 2010
 
Space apparently has its own recipe for making carbon nanotubes, one of the 
most intriguing contributions of nanotechnology here on Earth, and metals are
conspicuously missing from the list of ingredients.

The finding is the surprising by-product of lab experiments designed by
Joseph Nuth at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. and
his colleagues to address the astronomical question of how carbon gets
recycled in the regions of space that spawn stars and planets. The work
also could help researchers understand puzzling observations about some
supernovas.

In a recent paper in Astrophysical Journal Letters, Nuth's team
describes the modest chemical reaction. Unlike current methods for
producing carbon nanotubes  tiny yet strong structures with a range of
applications in electronics and, ultimately, perhaps even medicine - the
new approach does not need the aid of a metal catalyst. "Instead,
nanotubes were produced when graphite dust particles were exposed to a
mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen gases," explains Nuth.

"I am amazed at the implications of this paper, not only for
astrophysics but also for materials science," says Dick Zare, the chair
of the chemistry department at Stanford University, Stanford, Calif.
"Could Nature know a new chemistry for making carbon nanotubes that we
have yet to discover?"

One indication of that possibility came in 2008, when the long, thin
carbon structures known as graphite whiskers - essentially, bigger cousins
of carbon nanotubes - were identified in three meteorites. That finding
offered the tantalizing prospect that a haze of graphite whiskers in
space could explain why some supernovas appear dimmer, and therefore
farther away, than they should be, according to current models. Yet,
"very little is known about graphite whisker formation, and so it is
difficult to adequately interpret their discovery," says Marc Fries of
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

Fries and Andrew Steele at the Carnegie Institution for Science,
Washington, reported the meteorite findings.

Now, the experiments by Nuth's team suggest a possible route for forming
such structures. This "is exactly the sort of fundamental approach
needed for a meaningful understanding of what graphite whiskers are and
what their presence means in the larger context of solar system
formation and astronomical observations," Fries explains.

Nuth's approach is a variation of a well-established way to produce
gasoline or other liquid fuels from coal. It's known as Fischer-Tropsch
synthesis, and researchers suspect that it could have produced at least
some of the simple carbon-based compounds in the early solar system.
Nuth proposes that the nanotubes yielded by such reactions could be the
key to the recycling of the carbon that gets released when carbon-rich
grains are destroyed by supernova explosions.

The structure of the carbon nanotubes produced in these experiments was
determined by Yuki Kimura, a materials scientist at Tohoku University,
Japan, who examined the samples under a powerful transmission electron
microscope. He saw particles on which the original smooth graphite
gradually morphed into an unstructured region and finally to an area
rich in tangled hair-like masses. A closer look with an even more
powerful microscope showed that these tendrils were in fact cup-stacked
carbon nanotubes, which resemble a stack of Styrofoam cups with the
bottoms cut out.

These observations surprised Kimura because carbon nanotubes are
typically grown with platinum or another metal as a catalyst, yet Nuth's
reaction had used no metals. Kimura checked for contamination but "did
not find the presence of metallic particles accompanying the nanotube in
the sample," he says.

If further testing indicates that the new method is suitable for
materials-science applications, it could supplement, or even replace,
the familiar way of making nanotubes, explains Kimura. That possibility
"is most exciting and invites yet more study," says Zare.

The findings also might open a new realm of investigation in astronomy,
because "we can take the whiskers produced by Joe and interrogate their
properties," says Steele.

In particular, researchers can evaluate whether graphite whiskers absorb
light, he notes. A positive result would lend credence to the
proposition that the presence of these molecules in space affects the
observations of some supernovas. The ability to test this hypothesis
could start a reaction of its own.
 
 


From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Tue Feb 23 14:17:38 2010
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:17:38 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
Message-ID: <A9DC4C67F94541058D1CA087BF15F0C4@ET>

That thing is truly an enigma wrapped in a riddle inside a mystery!  The 
most freakishly weird iron ever!  A dendritic isometric-hexoctahedral melt 
crystallization.  How often do you see those?


Phil Whitmer 



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Tue Feb 23 14:21:51 2010
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:21:51 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina Iron
Message-ID: <D4C8FC6AEFA9470BA0D7663455A50BFB@ET>

 That thing is truly an enigma wrapped in a riddle inside a mystery!  The 
most freakishly weird iron ever!  A dendritic isometric-hexoctahedral melt 
crystallization.  How often do you see those?

Phil Whitmer


From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net  Tue Feb 23 16:32:46 2010
From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:32:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Lovina Iron
Message-ID: <25BD9A4AC5A249CD90560BD66B19E369@DFZN8X81>

Posting for Bernd

From: <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:34 PM
Subject: Lovina Iron




Marc wrote:

What a beautiful meteorite! My first take on it is that it must have 
crystallized
directly from a melt. The pyramidal forms looks like dendrites complete with 
a
preferred orientation. Dendrites do not form in solids like Widmannstatten 
patterns
do ? they form by solidification from a liquid.


Hello List,

Looks like the perfect counterpart to the curious chondrule of the JaH 055 
(L4/5),
on which Alan Rubin commented: "The dentrites indicate very rapid cooling.
The material surrounding the dentrites is (or was, before metamorphism) 
glass."

As for the photo of this dentritic chondrule in JaH 055, go to Tom Phillips' 
website!

Best wishes,

Bernd (in Germany)



From markmurphy at cablerocket.com  Tue Feb 23 16:40:22 2010
From: markmurphy at cablerocket.com (Mark Murphy)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:40:22 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Ad- Wanted Sulagiri
References: <3A9DCFCA-9D35-419B-8010-65FCD838F282@cablerocket.com>
Message-ID: <F2059913-4C09-4645-96CF-9664DC1274C6@cablerocket.com>



Begin forwarded message:

>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Mark Murphy <markmurphy at cablerocket.com>
>> Date: February 23, 2010 2:43:00 PM EST (CA)
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Ad- Wanted Sulagiri
>>
>> Hello List,
>>
>> I am looking for some Sulagiri from the Sept.12, 2008 fall in india.
>> Please contact me off-list if anyone has some to part with.
>> Photos and prices would be very much appreciated.
>>
>> Also, I have a 6.9 gram Buzzard Coulee Individual with fresh jet  
>> black fusion crust. That ends soon on ebay.
>> This Buzzard comes with the Original Canadian Export Permit (Not a  
>> copy). Shipping Worldwide only $5.
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.ca/Buzzard-Coulee-Individual-Meteorite-with-Export- 
>> Permit_W0QQitemZ250582623550QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2? 
>> hash=item3a57e3653e#ht_500wt_979
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Mark Murphy
>> IMCA# 6216
>



From metlist at plu.to  Tue Feb 23 17:10:26 2010
From: metlist at plu.to (matt)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:10:26 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] La Grange - Information Sought
Message-ID: <4B845252.8050202@plu.to>

Last week members of the British and Irish Meteorite Society (BIMS, 
http://www.bimsociety.org) visited the Manchester Museum (UK). One of the 
specimens we saw was a partslice of the iron La Grange, found in Kentucky in 
1860. It was part of an old collection acquired by the Museum in the late 1870's.

The Catalogue of Meteorites only states "A mass of 112lb was found". Can anybody 
add more information to this?

Thanks in advance,

Matt.


From whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 19:02:30 2010
From: whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com (Dave Myers)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:02:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] La Grange - Information Sought
In-Reply-To: <4B845252.8050202@plu.to>
Message-ID: <662412.82456.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Matt,

I am just out side of of Cincinnati OH. on the Kentucky-Indiana borader.

If you go to this web-site, it will show all 27 meteorites found in Kentucky and all the info. about it!

http://kgs.uky.edu/kgsweb/olops/pub/kgs/sp01_12.pdf

If this does not work (it should) just type in "unbroken meteorites rough
draft" in yahoo! That is what came up when I typed meteorites found in Kentucky. It is a PDF file full of great meteorite info.

Good Luck,

Dave













--- On Tue, 2/23/10, matt <metlist at plu.to> wrote:

> From: matt <metlist at plu.to>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] La Grange - Information Sought
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 10:10 PM
> Last week members of the British and
> Irish Meteorite Society (BIMS, http://www.bimsociety.org) visited the Manchester
> Museum (UK). One of the specimens we saw was a partslice of
> the iron La Grange, found in Kentucky in 1860. It was part
> of an old collection acquired by the Museum in the late
> 1870's.
> 
> The Catalogue of Meteorites only states "A mass of 112lb
> was found". Can anybody add more information to this?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Matt.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      



From whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 20:37:06 2010
From: whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com (Dave Myers)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:37:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] La Grange - Information Sought
In-Reply-To: <4B845252.8050202@plu.to>
Message-ID: <358295.66542.qm@web110105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Matt and list,

Not sure why, but my 1st reply ended up in my own spam box, So not sure if you got it! ......(But what it says!..is)


La Grange (Iron) Oldham County Kentucky, 38 degrees 24'N and 85 degrees 22'w, Found in Oct. 1860 near La Grange, Oldham Co. KY.

This flatten, elongate mass is turtle-shaped and smooth. It was acquired by J.L.Smith in 1861 who distributed one-third of it to various museums.

It is classified as a fine to finest Octahedrite (subtype IVA) contains Trolites, and has interesting zig-zag features, which may represent fissuring of the main mass and injection of trolite melts. The widmanstatten strutures implying that the meteorite under-went some form of cold deformation. (A mass of 112 lbs was recovered|) 

This info. is from Unbroken meteorites rough draft.com

Hope this helps
Dave





--- On Tue, 2/23/10, matt <metlist at plu.to> wrote:

> From: matt <metlist at plu.to>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] La Grange - Information Sought
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 10:10 PM
> Last week members of the British and
> Irish Meteorite Society (BIMS, http://www.bimsociety.org) visited the Manchester
> Museum (UK). One of the specimens we saw was a partslice of
> the iron La Grange, found in Kentucky in 1860. It was part
> of an old collection acquired by the Museum in the late
> 1870's.
> 
> The Catalogue of Meteorites only states "A mass of 112lb
> was found". Can anybody add more information to this?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Matt.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Feb 23 22:36:27 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:36:27 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of the Dakhleh impact event
Message-ID: <4B849EBB.6060902@cox.net>

Renne, R. P., H. P. Schwarcz, M. R. Kleindienst,
G. R. Osinski, and J. J. Donovan, 2010, Age of the
Dakhleh impact event and implications for Middle
Stone Age archeology in the Western Desert of Egypt.
Earth and Planetary Science Letters. vol. 29, No. 1-4,
pp. 201?206

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.epsl.2010.01.014

In part the abstract reads:

"Dakhleh Glass comprises a suite of chemically distinctive
and heterogeneous glassy rocks that occur over an area of
ca. 400 km2 in and around the Dakhleh Oasis in central
western Egypt."

and

"The age of the impact event is determined from a
compositionally filtered subset of the data that yield an
isochron age of 145 ? 19 ka."

Dakhleh Oasis, Egypt
http://epsc.wustl.edu/~kieniewicz/dakhleh_oasis.htm
http://www.dakhleh.com/publications.htm

Yours,

Paul H.


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Feb 23 22:46:23 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:46:23 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] A new chronology for the end-Triassic mass
	extinction
Message-ID: <4B84A10F.6040101@cox.net>

Deenen, M.H.L., M. Ruhl, N.R. Bonis, W. Krijgsman,
W.M. Kuerschner, M. Reitsma, M.J. van Bergen, 2010,
A new chronology for the end-Triassic mass extinction.
Earth and Planetary Science Letters. vol. 291,
no. 1-4, pp. 113-125.

Abstract at:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.epsl.2010.01.003

PDF file at:
http://www.geo.uu.nl/~forth/publications/Deenen_2010a.pdf
http://www.geo.uu.nl/~forth/people/Martijn/Martijn.htm

In part, the abstract reads:

"The transition from the Triassic to Jurassic Period, initiating
the ?Age of the dinosaurs?, approximately 200 Ma, is marked
by a profound mass extinction with more than 50% genus
loss in both marine and continental realms."

and

"We show that the oldest CAMP basalts are diachronous by
20 kyr across the Atlantic Ocean, and that these two volcanic
pulses coincide with the end-Triassic extinction interval in the
marine realm. Our results support the hypotheses of Phanerozoic
mass extinctions resulting from emplacement of Large Igneous
Provinces (LIPs) and provide crucial time constraints for
numerical modelling of Triassic?Jurassic climate change and
global carbon-cycle perturbations."

Yours,

Paul H.


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Feb 23 23:19:36 2010
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:19:36 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Convincing Identification of Terrestrial
	Meteorite Impact Strutures
Message-ID: <4B84A8D8.2060502@cox.net>

Frencha, B. M., and C. Koeberl, 2010, The convincing
identification of terrestrial meteorite impact structures:
What works, what doesn't, and why. Earth-Science
Reviews. vol. 98, no. 1-2, pp. 123-170.

Abstract at:

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.10.009
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=PublicationURL&_tockey=%23TOC%235802%232010%23999019998%231570149%23FLA%23&_cdi=5802&_pubType=J&view=c&_auth=y&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=2e423780e17d5ed60d7ca17a1faf9e9b

The PDF file for this paper and issue is open access
and can be freely downloaded.

Yours,

Paul H.


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Wed Feb 24 00:01:01 2010
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:01:01 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Convincing Identification of
	TerrestrialMeteorite Impact Strutures
References: <4B84A8D8.2060502@cox.net>
Message-ID: <D20DDB04C6A74F73A59AE6765B75F447@ATARIENGINE2>

Thanks, Paul,

Few people have been a greater help
in filling my hard drive than you.

Just in case, others were perplexed by it,
the first URL costs $31.50 for the paper:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.10.009

It's the second URL that is the FREE one:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=PublicationURL&_tockey=%23TOC%235802%232010%23999019998%231570149%23FLA%23&_cdi=5802&_pubType=J&view=c&_auth=y&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=2e423780e17d5ed60d7ca17a1faf9e9b

And, yes, the first paper was made available by
taxpayer dollars, so we have to pay for it twice...
naturally.

Thanks for all these sources. (The paper on
Astronomical Dating is a good read also.)


Sterling K. Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Heinrich" <oxytropidoceras at cox.net>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:19 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Convincing Identification of 
TerrestrialMeteorite Impact Strutures


> Frencha, B. M., and C. Koeberl, 2010, The convincing
> identification of terrestrial meteorite impact structures:
> What works, what doesn't, and why. Earth-Science
> Reviews. vol. 98, no. 1-2, pp. 123-170.
>
> Abstract at:
>
> http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.10.009
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=PublicationURL&_tockey=%23TOC%235802%232010%23999019998%231570149%23FLA%23&_cdi=5802&_pubType=J&view=c&_auth=y&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=2e423780e17d5ed60d7ca17a1faf9e9b
>
> The PDF file for this paper and issue is open access
> and can be freely downloaded.
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul H.
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From illaenus at wp.pl  Wed Feb 24 05:18:11 2010
From: illaenus at wp.pl (Tomasz Jakubowski)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:18:11 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Millbillillie and AURE
Message-ID: <4b84fce35889c7.66126631@wp.pl>

Dear List Members,
I havefor sale a nice crusted Millbillillie 150.4 grams 99% of crust.
http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/Millbillillie150G#

Also Ureilite NWA 6069 Main Mass on eBay (Make Offer) :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190374636011&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
Great collector piece. I open also for trade.

And many nice looking NWA chondrites. Please ask what weight You are 
looking for, and I send photos..

All question please send to : illaenus at gmail.com


Kind Regards
Tomasz Jakubowski
IMCA #2321




From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Wed Feb 24 10:33:44 2010
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:33:44 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] La Grange Pics
Message-ID: <19DBF3BEB54945C498F040FCAAE2D2B3@ET>

Matt:

Here are some La Grange pics from Buchwald's Iron Meteorites. 


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/012.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/z.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/z1.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/z2.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/z3.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/z4.jpg

Phil Whitmer


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 10:36:10 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:36:10 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] La Grange Pics
In-Reply-To: <19DBF3BEB54945C498F040FCAAE2D2B3@ET>
References: <19DBF3BEB54945C498F040FCAAE2D2B3@ET>
Message-ID: <e51421551002240736ye5337f0u6dd05b9e8682beb0@mail.gmail.com>

A rare video of LaGrange -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnMFOeEPUks

;)

On 2/24/10, JoshuaTreeMuseum <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com> wrote:
> Matt:
>
> Here are some La Grange pics from Buchwald's Iron Meteorites.
>
>
> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/012.jpg
> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/z.jpg
> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/z1.jpg
> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/z2.jpg
> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/z3.jpg
> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/z4.jpg
>
> Phil Whitmer
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Wed Feb 24 11:17:14 2010
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:17:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 24,
	2010
Message-ID: <29034477.69191267028234332.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/LOVINA_METEORITE.html



From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 24 12:09:35 2010
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:09:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	24, 2010
In-Reply-To: <29034477.69191267028234332.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
References: <29034477.69191267028234332.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <62085.6972.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Very interesting, what are voids (vesicles) doing in an iron meteorite?  I have only heard of sparse vugs found in one iron before and thought vesicles would most certainly disqualify an object from being an iron meteorite.  Has cosmic ray exposure testing been done?  It would be interesting to see how long this object has been in space.

Best Regards,

Adam





----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, February 24, 2010 8:17:14 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 24, 2010

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/LOVINA_METEORITE.html

______________________________________________
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From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:21:24 2010
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:21:24 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	24, 2010
In-Reply-To: <62085.6972.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <29034477.69191267028234332.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
	<62085.6972.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e51421551002240921n40bb6f75vf3b2087492ba6ed5@mail.gmail.com>

HI Adam and List,

This is a fascinating specimen.  Surely it represents a
previously-unknown parent body.

While the presence of vugs/vesicles suggests the specimen was not
formed in a vacuum, maybe there was some gases present during the
formation.

For example, suppose a large comet slammed into a predominately-iron
asteroid.  Comets contain large volumes of material that can
sublimate, and maybe during the collision, some of this gaseous
material injected into the iron body.  The heat and/or shock resulting
from the collision provided inroads for the cometary material by
expanding existing fissures or faults.  Then the intermingled material
rapidly cooled, forming the vesicles we see now.  The massive shock
and/or heating would also wipe out the native widmanstatten pattern
present in the iron body, leaving behind an ataxite-like mass without
the typical crystallization patterns......???

Then this curious mass fell to Earth and experienced
weathering/alteration to provide the strange external appearance we
see now.

Or, to play devil's advocate, perhaps this is a very atypical type of
industrial slag unlike any seen before.   Is there any industry
present in the area where this mass was found?

Best regards,

MikeG




On 2/24/10, Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Very interesting, what are voids (vesicles) doing in an iron meteorite?  I
> have only heard of sparse vugs found in one iron before and thought vesicles
> would most certainly disqualify an object from being an iron meteorite.  Has
> cosmic ray exposure testing been done?  It would be interesting to see how
> long this object has been in space.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, February 24, 2010 8:17:14 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 24,
> 2010
>
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/LOVINA_METEORITE.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------


From cdtucson at cox.net  Wed Feb 24 12:48:23 2010
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:48:23 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
 24, 2010
In-Reply-To: <62085.6972.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100224124823.H9CCD.842422.imail@fed1rmwml37>

Adam,
Interestingly, Albion Iron meteorite also has vugs up to 9MM and was classified by Wasson as well. see link;

http://www.meteorlab.com/METEORLAB2001dev/albtxt3.htm

Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Very interesting, what are voids (vesicles) doing in an iron meteorite?  I have only heard of sparse vugs found in one iron before and thought vesicles would most certainly disqualify an object from being an iron meteorite.  Has cosmic ray exposure testing been done?  It would be interesting to see how long this object has been in space.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, February 24, 2010 8:17:14 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 24, 2010
> 
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/LOVINA_METEORITE.html
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From riffraff at timewarp.de  Wed Feb 24 13:06:11 2010
From: riffraff at timewarp.de (Norbert Classen)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:06:11 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	February24, 2010
In-Reply-To: <e51421551002240921n40bb6f75vf3b2087492ba6ed5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <29034477.69191267028234332.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com><62085.6972.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<e51421551002240921n40bb6f75vf3b2087492ba6ed5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C117D764D9634D8F8FF5EABD87ADE01B@lunatic>

Hi Adam, Greg, and All,

I'm no expert when it comes to iron meteorites, but could these "voids"
represent troilite nodules or other phases which have been weathered out of
the specimen by the same forces that created the ziggurat structures? Just
think of the exterior parts of Mundrabilla and its "voids" and "vugs" which
are also weathered out troilite nodules and no primary features...

Just my two cents,
Norbert

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----

HI Adam and List,

This is a fascinating specimen.  Surely it represents a previously-unknown
parent body.

While the presence of vugs/vesicles suggests the specimen was not formed in
a vacuum, maybe there was some gases present during the formation.

For example, suppose a large comet slammed into a predominately-iron
asteroid.  Comets contain large volumes of material that can sublimate, and
maybe during the collision, some of this gaseous material injected into the
iron body.  The heat and/or shock resulting from the collision provided
inroads for the cometary material by expanding existing fissures or faults.
Then the intermingled material rapidly cooled, forming the vesicles we see
now.  The massive shock and/or heating would also wipe out the native
widmanstatten pattern present in the iron body, leaving behind an
ataxite-like mass without the typical crystallization patterns......???

Then this curious mass fell to Earth and experienced weathering/alteration
to provide the strange external appearance we see now.

Or, to play devil's advocate, perhaps this is a very atypical type of
industrial slag unlike any seen before.   Is there any industry
present in the area where this mass was found?

Best regards,

MikeG

On 2/24/10, Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Very interesting, what are voids (vesicles) doing in an iron 
> meteorite?  I have only heard of sparse vugs found in one iron before 
> and thought vesicles would most certainly disqualify an object from 
> being an iron meteorite.  Has cosmic ray exposure testing been done?  
> It would be interesting to see how long this object has been in space.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adam
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, February 24, 2010 8:17:14 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
> February 24, 2010
>
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/LOVINA_METEORITE.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


--
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From darryl at dof3.com  Wed Feb 24 13:12:52 2010
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:12:52 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February
	24, 2010
In-Reply-To: <62085.6972.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <29034477.69191267028234332.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
	<62085.6972.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <38128441-C5D4-48AE-A85E-9A15458C2CE2@dof3.com>



Dear List and Mike, Adam, Carl...

The voids remarked upon are not vesicles but an artifact of  
weathering.  The depressions seen are the end points where by water  
penetrated the meteorite and you just aren't able to see the entry  
point (which were the crevasses between the ziggurat structures).

For vug lovers--and I count myself among you!:  Lovina does indeed  
contain a blanketing of tiny vugs, which are fun to have but are  
actuality only fully oxidized iron sulfide pockets.  Remember, Lovina  
was in saltwater for centuries, if not longer.  If you enlarge and  
scan the image of the cut surface, you can see where the sulfide  
remains in the matrix and where it oxidized out.

As expressed by J. Wasson, the compositional fingerprint (the  
meteorite's DNA, if you will) is the incontrovertible smoking gun.


All best / Darryl






On Feb 24, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:

> Very interesting, what are voids (vesicles) doing in an iron  
> meteorite?  I have only heard of sparse vugs found in one iron  
> before and thought vesicles would most certainly disqualify an  
> object from being an iron meteorite.  Has cosmic ray exposure  
> testing been done?  It would be interesting to see how long this  
> object has been in space.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adam


On Feb 24, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:

> HI Adam and List,
>
> This is a fascinating specimen.  Surely it represents a
> previously-unknown parent body.
>
> While the presence of vugs/vesicles suggests the specimen was not
> formed in a vacuum, maybe there was some gases present during the
> formation.
>
> For example, suppose a large comet slammed into a predominately-iron
> asteroid.  Comets contain large volumes of material that can
> sublimate, and maybe during the collision, some of this gaseous
> material injected into the iron body.  The heat and/or shock resulting
> from the collision provided inroads for the cometary material by
> expanding existing fissures or faults.  Then the intermingled material
> rapidly cooled, forming the vesicles we see now.  The massive shock
> and/or heating would also wipe out the native widmanstatten pattern
> present in the iron body, leaving behind an ataxite-like mass without
> the typical crystallization patterns......???
>
> Then this curious mass fell to Earth and experienced
> weathering/alteration to provide the strange external appearance we
> see now.
>
> Or, to play devil's advocate, perhaps this is a very atypical type of
> industrial slag unlike any seen before.   Is there any industry
> present in the area where this mass was found?
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>





From darryl at dof3.com  Wed Feb 24 13:20:15 2010
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:20:15 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	February24, 2010
In-Reply-To: <C117D764D9634D8F8FF5EABD87ADE01B@lunatic>
References: <29034477.69191267028234332.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com><62085.6972.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<e51421551002240921n40bb6f75vf3b2087492ba6ed5@mail.gmail.com>
	<C117D764D9634D8F8FF5EABD87ADE01B@lunatic>
Message-ID: <8C14063C-2706-4D88-B738-336A9