[N&W] Re: VGN Steam on N&W? (Was G'day)

[nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org]

Good golly gee!
Makes you wonder how the C&O & VGN stayed in business using that useless Lima
Superpower! :o)
Bob Moore
__________________________________________________________________________
At least one of the AG's and several of the BA's were cut up at Platnick 
Brothers scrapyard in Bluefield,Va in early 1960. I lived across the tracks 
(Clinch Valley line) and street from the scrapyard and watched as they 
disappeared one by one into the yard over a several week period.
Allen Evans



From: N&W Mailing List <mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: N&W Mailing List <mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: VGN Steam on N&W? (Was G'day)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 09:52:07 -0400

By the date of the merger, all operating N&W steam was in Bluefield or west
of there.  The few 0-8-0s that caught yard tricks at Shaffers Crossing after
I started work there in 1959 didn't last more than a month; I got there
about a month after the last steam road run on the Norfolk Division.  So no
N&W steam would have operated on the Virginian as a result of the merger.

Under steam era conditions, I do not believe the N&W would have kept the
2-6-6-6s; their immense horsepower was developed in the wrong speed range
for the service in which they were used, and they were far heavier than any
N&W locomotive including the Y-6, whose horsepower and tractive effort
curves were much more usable in mountain drag service.  The N&W management
of the 1930s would not have approved a design of locomotive that weighed
over 385 tons that developed only 110,200 pounds of starting tractive
effort, regardless of the drawbar horsepower claimed.  The C&O management
blindly bought everything the AMC recommended to them - they figured if they
paid that much money for locomotive design specialists, they'd damn well use
what they recommended - which is why they had the world's heaviest Hudsons
(for a coal road?), so many 69"-drivered 2-8-4s they had to use many of them
in low-speed coal drag service, and, of course, the 2-6-6-6.  N&W's
management had come up through the ranks and knew what made the wheels go
'round, and no engine with 80,000 pound axle loading and so little tractive
effort would have been allowed.  The lawyers and financiers that ran the C&O
didn't know the difference.  And, of course, George Brooke came from the C&O
to run the Virginian, and he didn't know any better, either; he ordered the
AGs and the BAs.  Imagine!  Basically a 35 MPH railroad with an articulated
developing its maximum drawbar horsepower at 40MPH +, and a 69"-drivered
2-8-4 capable of running a freight train better than 65 MPH.

But, managements being what they were, the N&W could probably have flogged
the AGs off to the C&O.

Someone needs to do the gross ton mile cost comparisons between an N&W Y-6a
(the AG contemporary), and the AG.

They were big and impressive, though, and with all that weight on drivers
and such modest tractive effort, crews would love them. I wonder what the
track and structures department thought of them, though.  In none of the C&O
2-6-6-6 literature can I find any instance where the Track Department was
ever consulted . . .

EdKing
_____________________________________________________________________

Many thanks for the replies, today #907 is a live and well on the E.R.&C.M.
and will shortly be leaving with 100 cars of N&W and Virginian coal with a
N&W canteen. And you're right Roger, it looks cool. B-)

John Simon

----- Original Message -----
From: "N&W Modeling List" <mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: <mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: G'day


 > VGN steam on the N&W? I doubt it as by the time the N&W took control of the
 > Virginian all VGN steam was in a retired state. The VGN aux water tenders
 > were totally different than those the N&W designed and built.
 >
 > An AG or BA would have looked cool with NORFOLK & WESTERN on the tender 
though!
 >
 >
 > Roger Huber
 > ____________________________________________________________________
 > John - It doesn't matter.
 >
 > It's your basement, your money and your trains. Run them like you want to.
 > Anybody who doesn't like it can stay out of your basement.
 >
 > But IMHO, N&W would have gotten rid of the VGN 2-6-6-6s as quickly as they
 > could - probably selling them to C&O or swapping for more 0-8-0s - and
 > replaced them with about five or six Y-6s.
 >
 > EdKing
 > ____________________________________________________________________
 > Hi John;
 > This is a fine place for the question. At the time of the merger, all of
 > the VGN steam locomotives were already in storage, on the scrap line, or
 > scrapped. Very very few of the N&W steam locomotives were left also.
 > Nigel F Misso
 > nfmisso at cox.net
 > N&W in HO in OKC
 > ____________________________________________________________________
 > Historically, Virginian's magnificent Lima locomotives were disposed of
 > within weeks of the finalization of the merger. The Class BA 2-8-4's & Blue
 > Ridge Class AG 2-6-6-6's had been stored serviceable since 1955, & except
 > for display, & maintenance turns, pretty much stayed in the barn waiting
 > for a call that never came. Several were towed to scrappers in the Roanoke,
 > VA & Charleston, WV areas.
 > Since N&W steam ended just over a year later at Williamson, it's POSSIBLE
 > that Y-6's COULD have operated on ex-VGN trackage. But did they ever? Now
 > THERE's a good research question!!!
 > As for your concept of a Virginian AG paired with N&W auxillary tender; all
 > I can say is, "It's YOUR railroad, 'mate! Run it as you like it & enjoy."
 > Such a combination would really go far without a water stop.
 > Among the coolest parts of model railroading is, as CEO of your own
 > railway, writing your own history as much as imagination allows. Good luck!
 > Yours in VGN,Bob Moore
 >
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "N&W Modeling List" <mailing-list at nwhs.org>
 > To: <mailing-list at nwhs.org>
 > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 10:58 PM
 > Subject: G'day
 >
 >> I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask this question 
but............
 >> I've acquired one of Rivarossi's 2-6-6-6 loco's and am in the middle of re
 >> decaling it to Virginian. My main question is, after the 1959 merger of N&W
 >> and Virginian did the two companies ever swap power? ie Would a Y6B 
have run
 >> on Virginian rails? Would an AG have run on N&W rails?
 >> The reason I ask is that to stir up the local here in Australia I'm 
going to
 >> run my re-decaled AG with a N&W water canteen.
 >>
 >> John Simon