Cities

[NW Mailing List]

Craig,

Perhaps I should have said that Virginia is the only state in which all cities are completely independent of counties.  I do know that in the past couple of decades other states have allowed some of their larger cities to expand and completely combine geographically and administration-wise with the counties that surrounded them.  Jacksonville/Duval and Miami/Dade in Florida come to mind.  I believe Oklahoma City is another case and I know there are others I've forgotten.  I wasn't aware that Baltimore was completely independent of Baltimore County, but I certainly can't argue against that.  If that is so, I think that is probably another case where the City became so large in relation to the county that having two overlapping jurisdictions became superfluous.  But as you point out, even in Maryland that is probably the exception rather than the rule.

An example of a huge city that is so large that it encompasses several counties geographically, each of which still retains county functions, is New York City.  Each borough is actually a separate county.  For example the island of Manhattan is New York County and the borough of Brooklyn is Kings County.

And Ed,

Even though the sign says you're leaving Narrows and entering Giles County, that doesn't signify that the two are totally separate jurisdictions.  Narrows is a town within Giles County, not an independent city.  Many Virginia towns have signs such as that and I've always thought it was kind of misleading because when you're in a town you're still in the county.

And though the custom may go back to English law, I believe the actual statutes separating cities and counties is a legacy of the Byrd regime in Virginia in the 1930's or 1940's.  The politics of it is definitely not something to go into here.  Suffice it to say that any Virginian my age or older has a pretty good understanding of how the Byrd machine worked to keep everybody in line and all political power in a few hands.

Sam Putney



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: 'NW Mailing List' 
  Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:19 PM
  Subject: Cities


  Even when living in VA I was not sure why there was the statement that VA is the only state with independent cities. Perhaps the practice is more prevalent there, perhaps applying to smaller municipalities, but Baltimore, MD is an independent city. MD has other cities, Annapolis for example, which are not independent from the county. MD also has towns similar to VA towns which are still a part of the county.

  It is not the place on this list to continue this discussion, but I would be interested in hearing additional discussion if anyone can shed light on this claim.

  Thanks

  Craig Close 
  Balimer, Merlan 
  OK: Far West Catonsville 
  OR: Greater Oella 





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  From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
  Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 7:24 PM
  To: NW Mailing List
  Subject: Re: Boaz Siding


    For the sake of history.......this separation of towns from counties within Virginia goes back to the Commonwealth's English heritage.    I always remember a sign near my home when I lived in Narrows that read, "Leaving Narrows - entering Giles County".  Virginia, as Sam said is the only state that does it this way.

    Ed Painter Narrows, VA - Currently Russellville, AR


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: NW Mailing List 
    To: NW Mailing List 
    Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 8:25 PM
    Subject: Re: Boaz Siding


    Actually, everyone is more or less right.  The soccer fields do belong to Roanoke County; however they are located within the city limits of Roanoke.  A similar situation exists in the Cave Spring area where Hidden Valley Junior High School, which my son attended, is located within the Roanoke city limits but is part of Roanoke County's school system.  I know about the soccer fields because my son participated in Roanoke County rec league games there.  This is a situation that is peculiar to Virginia because it is the only state where cities are totally independent from counties and expansion of city boundaries by annexation (which hasn't been permitted for a couple of decades) could surround facilities and infrastructure that counties weren't willing to give up.  Deals were cut whereby counties, like any other entity, could retain ownership if not governance.

    Sam Putney
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: NW Mailing List 
      To: NW Mailing List 
      Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:52 PM
      Subject: Re: Boaz Siding


      Gordon and Harry,

      You guys are right and I was wrong. 

      The City and Vinton are interleaved through that part of town. On her way to work, my wife goes from the County, to the City, to the Town of Vinton, then back into the City! It's crazy!

      I've always thought the soccer fields near Boaz Siding were Roanoke County fields, but I may be wrong. I suspect that east of Vinton, the City does not reach south of the tracks. And as you said, where were the boundaries back when? 

      Ron Davis

      At 10:10 PM 8/1/2007, you wrote:

        Ron,
         
        I don't know about that hand-drawn track plan that you attached or what the City of Roanoke boundaries were in 1950, but a January 1, 1987, track chart shows that going east from Vinton the railroad crosses from Vinton into the City of Roanoke at about Mile Post N-254.8, passes Boaz (and Bridge 96) at about Mile Post N-254.1 and crosses from the City of Roanoke into Roanoke County at about Mile Post N-253.6, putting Boaz in the current boundaries of the City of Roanoke.
         
        Maybe the question is whether Boaz was or is in the City of Roanoke.
         
        Gordon Hamilton


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