No ARROW in Midlothian VA

NW Mailing List nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Mon Mar 31 22:44:02 EDT 2008

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I live in Midlothian, VA (just outside of Richmond). I haven't seen my copy
of the ARROW as of 03/31.

Bill Mason

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Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:28 PM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 28, Issue 59

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Today's Topics:

1. RE: White and Black Smoke (NW Mailing List)
2. Re: VGN AFE's (NW Mailing List)
3. RE: VGN AFE's (NW Mailing List)
4. Re: VGN AFE's (NW Mailing List)
5. Re: VGN AFE's (NW Mailing List)
6. arrow (NW Mailing List)
7. Re: White and Black Smoke (NW Mailing List)
8. Re: White and Black Smoke (NW Mailing List)

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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:15:06 -0400
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: RE: White and Black Smoke
To: "'NW Mailing List'" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <00fb01c8934a$624c9c30$8dfdb94b at 071927350f>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

"Some examples....

UP 8444 shows proper steaming technique, as she rolls her train thru Hondo
TX at track speed...
NW 611, shows a "clear stack" as well..

A lot of the smoke you see on rail fan videos, is "theatric smoke", that is
put on for the benefit of the fans, many of whom tend to EXPECT it.

Remember one of the conditions, that was placed apon O Winston Link, about
taking photographs of locomotives, showing "excessive black smoke" "

In fact, one individual upon looking at a 20 x24" black and white
enlargement that I was selling at a railroad show with the 610 on the
Cavalier at Coal Grove on an April morning in 1949, exclaimed that, 'The
locomotive must be a diesel as there was no smoke!"

I took some time explaining the combustion of coal, lean and rich fires, and
the duties of a fireman on a steam locomotive.

Gary Rolih
Cincinnati

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:11:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: VGN AFE's
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Message-ID:

<11254507.1206983470072.JavaMail.root at mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

>The Virginian AFEs were cataloged by the dedicated efforts of Tom

>Salmon who took a personal interest in them. If someone steps forward

>and volunteers, we can have the N&W AFEs cataloged too.

>

>Ron Davis

Thanks for the kudo Ron.

All 9,000 plus VGN AFE's are listed in the VGN CD for sale by the
Commissary, as well as other good info. The missing 4000 AFE's have not
been located, but by including them in the Excel Master List you can get a
very good idea of "progess and improvements" on the road.

The reason NWHS does not list them is that they are not in the Archives.
However the complete list makes a very useful tool for the Virginian
researcher.

Tom Salmon

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:15:43 -0400
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: RE: VGN AFE's
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Message-ID:
<21CE380B38E40E47874D22FCF4564AF409857E at orlex03.firm.lddkr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Pardon my ignorance, but what is an AFE ?

Paul Mandelkern

-----Original Message-----
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:11 PM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: VGN AFE's

>The Virginian AFEs were cataloged by the dedicated efforts of Tom

>Salmon who took a personal interest in them. If someone steps forward

>and volunteers, we can have the N&W AFEs cataloged too.

>

>Ron Davis

Thanks for the kudo Ron.

All 9,000 plus VGN AFE's are listed in the VGN CD for sale by the
Commissary, as well as other good info. The missing 4000 AFE's have not
been located, but by including them in the Excel Master List you can get
a very good idea of "progess and improvements" on the road.

The reason NWHS does not list them is that they are not in the Archives.
However the complete list makes a very useful tool for the Virginian
researcher.

Tom Salmon
________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:08:33 -0400
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: VGN AFE's
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <003e01c89362$9e271a60$2f01a8c0 at eMachT6216>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original

Authorization for Expenditure, related to a specific proposed project.
Useful in research as it often contains useful drawings and design
information.

Ed Sproles

----- Original Message -----
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:15 PM
Subject: RE: VGN AFE's

> Pardon my ignorance, but what is an AFE ?

>

>

> Paul Mandelkern

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org

> [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List

> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:11 PM

> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

> Subject: Re: VGN AFE's

>

>

>

>>The Virginian AFEs were cataloged by the dedicated efforts of Tom

>>Salmon who took a personal interest in them. If someone steps forward

>>and volunteers, we can have the N&W AFEs cataloged too.

>>

>>Ron Davis

>

>

> Thanks for the kudo Ron.

>

>

> All 9,000 plus VGN AFE's are listed in the VGN CD for sale by the

> Commissary, as well as other good info. The missing 4000 AFE's have not

> been located, but by including them in the Excel Master List you can get

> a very good idea of "progess and improvements" on the road.

>

> The reason NWHS does not list them is that they are not in the Archives.

> However the complete list makes a very useful tool for the Virginian

> researcher.

>

> Tom Salmon

> ________________________________________

> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org

> To change your subscription go to

> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list

> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at

> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

> ________________________________________

> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org

> To change your subscription go to

> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list

> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at

> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:11:45 EDT
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: VGN AFE's
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Message-ID: <d1f.1ff14b5c.35229171 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Paul:

AFE = Authorization For Expenditure

Jim Gillum

In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:52:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

Pardon my ignorance, but what is an AFE ?

Paul Mandelkern

-----Original Message-----
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:11 PM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: VGN AFE's

>The Virginian AFEs were cataloged by the dedicated efforts of Tom

>Salmon who took a personal interest in them. If someone steps forward

>and volunteers, we can have the N&W AFEs cataloged too.

>

>Ron Davis

Thanks for the kudo Ron.

All 9,000 plus VGN AFE's are listed in the VGN CD for sale by the
Commissary, as well as other good info. The missing 4000 AFE's have not
been located, but by including them in the Excel Master List you can get
a very good idea of "progess and improvements" on the road.

The reason NWHS does not list them is that they are not in the Archives.
However the complete list makes a very useful tool for the Virginian
researcher.

Tom Salmon
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
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________________________________________
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**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:05:45 -0400
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: arrow
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <003501c89362$39bc50e0$2f01a8c0 at eMachT6216>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original

Arrow arrived in Princeton area today. Princeton NJ that is, not WVa!

Ed Sproles

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:31:37 -0400
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: White and Black Smoke
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <003c01c89376$9e32ea20$86f7f804 at EOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

When I looked up the newspaper articles about the last N&W steam operations
in Hagerstown, MD I found a quote from an official which said "They won't
have us to blame for black smoke anymore." Railroads weren't the only
businesses which could be cited by the state of Maryland for excessive
smoke. The company I worked for still had two 1917 vintage coal fired
boilers in the 1980's. It took a forced draft to operate these things
especially when they were stoked with fresh coal. One cold winter day the
superintendent ordered the fireman not to run the blowers, and the company
was prompty cited for a certain density of black smoke. These boilers were
hand fired, and in the severe winter of 1977 they burned 19 tons a day at
least once.

Rick Morrison

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 6:54 PM
Subject: RE: White and Black Smoke

I remember reading somewhere that the railroads could be fined if they
produced excessive black smoke in populated areas; a "smoke density" chart
was used to gauge the extent of the violation. Does anybody know more about
how that worked or any stories of "repeat offenders"? I remember reading
somewhere that you never wanted to leave Roanoke past the N&W office
buildings with black smoke because you might get spotted by the president of
the N&W and really catch an earful.

Mike Weeks

Charlotte, NC

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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:24:11 -0400
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: White and Black Smoke
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <000801c8938e$b5935570$6401a8c0 at DellDesktop>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

My recollection from five summers of working on, under and around N&W steam
engines is that at least some of the tenders were paint stenciled on the
front behind the engineer's position:

Safety
First

Save
Fuel

And on the fireman's side of the tender front:

Black
Smoke
Is
Waste

I do not remember whether the letters were all upper case (probably) or
mixed case as depicted above or what the size of the letters may have been.
Also, the arrangement of words may have had two words on each line instead
of only one word on each line as depicted above.

Gordon Hamilton
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Mailing List
To: NW Mailing List
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 10:52 AM
Subject: RE: White and Black Smoke

Black Smoke would have been bad for both reasons; pollution and more
important to a railway because of the fuel cost impact, it was a waste of
fuel. I'm at work this morning as I read this note. I may not have the
wording exact ally correct, but in a MicoScale N&W steam locomotive decal
sets that I've used on my models there's is a decal that is placed on the
tender facing the locomotive cab for the engineer and fireman to read that
states, "Black Smoke Means Waste".

Ed Painter - A Virginian from Narrows living in Russellville, AR.

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 5:43 AM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: RE: White and Black Smoke

(Writing from Scotland) I recently watched a 1947 training film made by
one of the "Big Four" British railway companies, the London, Midland and
Scottish (LMS). It was called "Little and Often" and was made to instruct
firemen in the art of firing a steam locomotive. It was detailed in the
scientific explanation of combustion: such as exhaust gases being fed back
on to the fire to fully consume the combustible materials. So the answer to
the question (I think!) is that black smoke indicates poor stoking: it means
that the fuel is not being completely turned in to energy and the wasted
carbon and gasses are being exhausted through the chimney instead. White or
thin, gray smoke indicates efficient firing.

In fact did I not read that the N&W authorities gave O Winston Link
permission to take his superb photos....but on the proviso that he did not
take pictures of locos belching out black smoke???

Best regards to all my friends on your side of the pond from a fan of the
N&W in the UK.

Phil Taylor
Stirlingshire
Scotland

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: RE: White and Black Smoke
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:54:17 -0400
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

I remember reading somewhere that the railroads could be fined if they
produced excessive black smoke in populated areas; a "smoke density" chart
was used to gauge the extent of the violation. Does anybody know more about
how that worked or any stories of "repeat offenders"? I remember reading
somewhere that you never wanted to leave Roanoke past the N&W office
buildings with black smoke because you might get spotted by the president of
the N&W and really catch an earful.

Mike Weeks

Charlotte, NC

-----Original Message-----
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 8:27 AM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: White and Black Smoke

Good morning.

I am not worried about my Arrow not arriving yet and will not be posting
when it arrives.

The purpose of my post this morning is to inquire as to why on many of the
programs that I watch on RFD TV (Trains and Locomotives) some of the smoke
is black and some is white. What is the cause of this? Have a great weekend
and thank you in advance for any responses.

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