From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Sep  7 07:29:56 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 07:29:56 -0400
Subject: NRH&W (Wolf Creek line)
Message-ID: <fa3c91530909070429x37bf7470sa1d1c4fe2473bd0b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all.
I was wondering if anyone can tell me when the Wolf Creek Line was
abandoned and why?

Thanks,
Ben Blevins

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Sep  7 09:20:33 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 09:20:33 -0400
Subject: NRH&W (Wolf Creek line)
References: <fa3c91530909070429x37bf7470sa1d1c4fe2473bd0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CFB26AB57AB245D4A61098337E9EA7A4@StudyComputer>

Ben
   If your talking about Wolf Creek Branch in Kentucky it
is still a active branch.

Larry


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 7:29 AM
Subject: NRH&W (Wolf Creek line)


> Hello all.
> I was wondering if anyone can tell me when the Wolf Creek Line was
> abandoned and why?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ben Blevins
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> 
>


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Sep  7 09:02:26 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 13:02:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Automatic Train Control
In-Reply-To: <357469.45557.qm@web30108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1956624259.3046921252328546345.JavaMail.root@sz0048a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>



Frank, 



The Hagerstown District of the Shenandoah Division was selected by N&W to implement the ICC directive in Order No. 13413.? Installaton was begun December 1923, completed November 10, 1924.? See Mason Cooper's Shenandoah Valley Line book, pp. 108-111. 



Jim Brewer 

Glenwood MD 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> 
To: "N&W Historical Society" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 5:08:45 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: Automatic Train Control 

Was there ever Automatic Train Control on the Shenandoah Division? ?My understanding is that the only place N&W locomotives operated under ATC was over the Atlantic Coast Line between Petersburg and Richmond. 

Thanks for the information, 

Frank Scheer 
f_scheer at yahoo.com 
________________________________________ 
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org 
To change your subscription go to 
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Sep  7 11:28:31 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 11:28:31 -0400
Subject: NRH&W (Wolf Creek line)
References: <fa3c91530909070429x37bf7470sa1d1c4fe2473bd0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A836722ECB31485C8DE3347677625E52@DellVostro>

Ben,

If you are asking about the N&W Narrows Branch that followed Wolf Creek from 
Giles County into Bland County, Virginia, the following may help.  It is an 
excerpt from my comment in a 1/2/08 posting on the Mailing List of a 5/21/03 
Bluefield Daily Telegraph article on this line:

This line was built as the standard-gauge New River, Holston and Western 
Railroad Co., and it had been extended in stages  from its connection with 
the N&W at Narrows, VA, to Rocky Gap, VA, 20.6 miles, when the N&W acquired 
the company in December 1912.  But, it continued to operate as the NRH&W, 
and was extended 14 miles to Suiter, VA. in 1914.  A 1915 schedule shows a 
passenger train each way the full length of the line.  On June 1, 1919, the 
NRH&W became the N&W's Narrows Branch, but it never reached Saltville.  In 
1942 the 4.13 miles between Suiter and Bastian was abandoned, and in 1946 
the remainder of the branch was abandoned.

Gordon Hamilton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 7:29 AM
Subject: NRH&W (Wolf Creek line)


> Hello all.
> I was wondering if anyone can tell me when the Wolf Creek Line was
> abandoned and why?
>
> Thanks,
> Ben Blevins
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.80/2349 - Release Date: 09/06/09 
05:51:00


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Sep  7 12:12:55 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:12:55 -0400
Subject: N&W in 1910--Improvements
References: <02E7365F0B3F4CDCA826F5914924454C@DellVostro>
	<F20101FEE40E4854A1FCF7F88A4B83EA@DHKYT081>
Message-ID: <043FC9E5645944BF9D5B4E3E957477AB@DellVostro>

Alex,

Thank you for calling my attention to an error in my comments about the ends of double track on the Pocahontas Division in early 1910.  The timetable page that I refered to listed miles from Williamson to Bluefield (eastward) whereas I am used to thinking in increasing milepost order (westward), so the error crept in.

The following corrected info is from TT No. 18, eff. Sun., May 15th, 1910 (in the N&WHS Archives) and lists miles from Bluefield (Wyoming and Jim are bracketed by more familiar locations to aid in understanding where they were located.):

Distance
0                 Bluefield        E. End DT
                                                            (26.2 mi. DT)
26.2            East Vivian   W. End DT        
                                                            (5.5 mi. ST)
31.7            Huger            E. End DT        
64.7            Panther                               (35.6 mi. DT)
67.3            Wyoming      W. End DT 
69.7            Alnwick
                                                              (15.2 mi ST.  Passing siding at Alnwick)
82.0            Devon
82.5            Jim                E. End DT 
86.5            Sands
                                                              (21.9 mi. DT)
89.1            Delorme
104.4          E.Williamson    W. End DT 

  Because the double tracking was an on-going project during early 1910, the ends of double track changed as the work progressed.

Gordon Hamilton


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: NW Mailing List 
  Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:28 AM
  Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Improvements


  Wyoming, also known as Wyoming City and Wyoming Station is located near the McDowell-MIngo County boarder at the mouth of Fourpole Creek.  I expect that  would put the community at the east end of the 12.8- mile double track if Jim is west of Devon.  N&W places the community at milepost N432.22

  Wyoming was platted as a community with 61 lots and the first lot was sold on June 12, 1893.  The community got a big boost in 1899 when W.G.W Iaeger sold 9,000 acres of timber rights in the vicinity to what became the Longpole Lumber Company.  Longpole Lumber Co. built a lumber mill and manufacturing co. at Wyoming City.  They also operated a 42-inch gauge lumber railroad up Fourpole and Longpole creeks.

  Alex Schust  
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: NW Mailing List 
    To: 3N&W Mailing List 
    Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 3:12 PM
    Subject: N&W in 1910--Improvements


    Bluefield Daily Telegraph
    January 28, 1910

    $3,500,000 TO BE EXPENDED ON THIS DIVISION
    ------
    Twenty-one Contractors Figuring on Work for Norfolk and Western
    ------
    MANY SHARP CURVES ARE TO BE CUT OUT
    ------
    Two Tunnels Will be Driven Between Kimball and Welch and Double Track, it is Learned, Will Be Laid at Once
    ------
    TWO MILLIONS APPROPRIATED FOR DRY FORK CUT OFF
    ------
        The Daily Telegraph stated recently that the Norfolk and Western is to let a number of contracts on February 1st for work on the Pocahontas and Scioto divisions.  Following this statement it is now learned, unofficially, that the work on this division alone will amount to over $3,500,000 while the work on the Sciota division will reach $1,500,000.  Two tunnels between Kimball and Welch will be built in addition to straightening the track at several points.  Double track will be laid between West Vivian or Kimball and Huger, while a double track tunnel will be built in Kimball which will cut off from where the old station was located and pass through the hill at that point.  This tunnel will pass very closely underneath the cemetery.  At Big Four another tunnel will be built.  The Dry Fork tunnel, which will be 4,700 feet long, will also be constructed.  This will be a single track tunnel, and it is learned that there has been about $2,000,000 appropriated for work on the Dry Fork cut off which will eventually connect with the Clinch Valley division
        At Kimball the company will extend its yards west, putting in several tracks which are known as classification tracks.  Near Wyoming the company will build double track from Wyoming to mile post 435 and from mile post 445 1/2 to 447.  A number of sharp curves will be cut out and if the original plan is followed tunnels will be constructed at Panther, Mount's Curve and Delorme.  The tunnels are to be 1,200, 1,800 and 1,500 feet respectively.  The Kimball tunnel, outside of approaches, will be about 900 feet in length while the Big Four tunnel without the approaches will be about 600 feet in length.
        Twenty-one contracts have been figuring on the work and most of them were in this city yesterday morning and last night.  They arrived at various times from the field and will leave here for Roanoke where they will submit their bids on the first of February when the contracts will either be let or turned down according to the bids which will be received.
        The work which is to be done will be of the greatest importance to the Norfolk and Western, as it will straighten out many places in the line which are in first class condition but which now cost the company a great deal of money on account of the curves which are a continual wear on equipment and which require a heavy outlay to maintain.  The most noticeable of all the improvements which have been made up to date on the road are those near Roderfield, or the present station, Claren; at Welch, where a tunnel allows the road to save a long haul on a continual curve; and between Hallsville and Hemphill, where two tunnels cut off quite a distance.  There are a number of other places which were greatly and materially improved by the six tunnels which were built in 1907 and their effect on the earnings of the road has been apparent, inasmuch as they primarily saved mileage and then the ordinary wear which every one connected with a railroad knows is continual on a road cut up with curves.  When the original plans of the company are complete the Norfolk and Western will be perhaps the best coal carrying road in the country.  All of the proposed work in addition to many other improvements is being made without any great additional outlays and in face of an increased dividend.
    ------
    [A 1910 operating timetable in the N&WHS Archives shows Wyoming to be about midway between Panther and Alnwick.  Wyoming was the west end of the 12.8-mile double track whose east end was at Jim, which was 0.5 mi. west of Devon.  A Pocahontas division track chart reveals that the proposed tunnels at Panther and Delorme were never built.  The tunnel at Mount's Curve is doubtful as that name does not show up in the operating timetables of 1909 and 1910.]

    Gordon Hamilton


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Sep  7 12:20:16 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:20:16 -0400
Subject: Twelve-Pole Line
Message-ID: <ABA943CD3FAB4FB08A6A06E34FB10968@DellVostro>

I am researching the N&W's Twelve Pole line in the vicinity of Dingess and Breeden tunnels, but the track chart of this line in the N&WHS Archives is a machine copy of a blueprint and is not fully legible.

If anyone has an original track chart of this line with legible tunnel lengths, etc., please contact me at:

gordonshamilton at cox.net

541 989-4370

Thanks,

Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Sep  7 12:11:09 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:11:09 -0400
Subject: Automatic Train Control
References: <1956624259.3046921252328546345.JavaMail.root@sz0048a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <391A62C8B6C94841A974FC98E61F476E@Jimmy>

"Frank,
    The Hagerstown District of the Shenandoah Division was selected by N&W to implement the ICC directive in Order No. 13413.  Installaton was begun December 1923, completed November 10, 1924.  See Mason Cooper's Shenandoah Valley Line book, pp. 108-111.
Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD"

The Roanoke District also was so equipped. 
Oddly enough, even though the system has been long gone, we still have problems from time to time with penalty brake applications on cab signal equipped diesels.

Jimmy Lisle
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Sep  7 13:14:55 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:14:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ATC
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1252339208.34739.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <50303.60218.qm@web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 13:02:26 +0000 (UTC)
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: Automatic Train Control

Frank, 

The Hagerstown District of the Shenandoah Division was selected by N&W to implement the ICC directive in Order No. 13413.? Installaton was begun December 1923, completed November 10, 1924.? See Mason Cooper's Shenandoah Valley Line book, pp. 108-111. 

Jim Brewer 
Glenwood MD


September 7, 2009

Hello, Jim:

Thanks for the reference.  I'll look it up.

Good afternoon,

Frank Scheer
f_scheer at yahoo.com



From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Sep  7 14:44:43 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:44:43 -0400
Subject: NRH&W (Wolf Creek line)
In-Reply-To: <A836722ECB31485C8DE3347677625E52@DellVostro>
References: <fa3c91530909070429x37bf7470sa1d1c4fe2473bd0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<A836722ECB31485C8DE3347677625E52@DellVostro>
Message-ID: <fa3c91530909071144wa36c70cq71393fa11273893e@mail.gmail.com>

Gentlemen,
Yes, I'm referring to the Narrows Branch.  I have been reporting to
Narrows for the last month or so.  To get there, I've been travelling
Virginia highway 61, which appears to me to have been built right over
top of the railroad grade.

So, was this line destined to be built to Saltville?  That is
certainly possible as it is on the other end of that valley.  I also
remember reading in a post not too long ago that they were headed for
Sharon Springs, Ceres, and possibly Bland.  Of course, Bland was not
on the way to Sharon Springs so I don't know how they wanted to route
it.

Was there a mine at Suiter?  What was their source of revenue?  Any stations?

Ben Blevins


On 9/7/09, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> Ben,
>
> If you are asking about the N&W Narrows Branch that followed Wolf Creek from
> Giles County into Bland County, Virginia, the following may help.  It is an
> excerpt from my comment in a 1/2/08 posting on the Mailing List of a 5/21/03
> Bluefield Daily Telegraph article on this line:
>
> This line was built as the standard-gauge New River, Holston and Western
> Railroad Co., and it had been extended in stages  from its connection with
> the N&W at Narrows, VA, to Rocky Gap, VA, 20.6 miles, when the N&W acquired
> the company in December 1912.  But, it continued to operate as the NRH&W,
> and was extended 14 miles to Suiter, VA. in 1914.  A 1915 schedule shows a
> passenger train each way the full length of the line.  On June 1, 1919, the
> NRH&W became the N&W's Narrows Branch, but it never reached Saltville.  In
> 1942 the 4.13 miles between Suiter and Bastian was abandoned, and in 1946
> the remainder of the branch was abandoned.
>
> Gordon Hamilton
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 7:29 AM
> Subject: NRH&W (Wolf Creek line)
>
>
>> Hello all.
>> I was wondering if anyone can tell me when the Wolf Creek Line was
>> abandoned and why?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ben Blevins
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.80/2349 - Release Date: 09/06/09
> 05:51:00
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Sep  7 16:01:05 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:01:05 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: NRH&W (Wolf Creek line)
In-Reply-To: <fa3c91530909071144wa36c70cq71393fa11273893e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fa3c91530909070429x37bf7470sa1d1c4fe2473bd0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<A836722ECB31485C8DE3347677625E52@DellVostro>
	<fa3c91530909071144wa36c70cq71393fa11273893e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <435542.85886.qm@web87015.mail.ird.yahoo.com>



 


________________________________
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, 7 September, 2009 7:44:43 PM
Subject: Re: NRH&W (Wolf Creek line)

<snip>

So, was this line destined to be built to Saltville?  That is
certainly possible as it is on the other end of that valley..  I also
remember reading in a post not too long ago that they were headed for
Sharon Springs, Ceres, and possibly Bland.  Of course, Bland was not
on the way to Sharon Springs so I don't know how they wanted to route
it.

Was there a mine at Suiter?  What was their source of revenue?  Any stations?

<snip>

Some details are at http://www.bland.k12.va..us/bland/rocky/railroad/web-content/index.html

"New River, Holston, and Western
Railroad Company continued the railroad all the way to Rocky Gap in
1912. This came about because of a purchase by W.M. Ritter Lumber
Company called Buck Horn Timber. The railroad was built to Suiter in
1914, when Mr. W.E. Mingea, Jr., of Abingdon, Virginia, owner of all
the big survey in Bland County, built it to help the lumber and bark
industry. In 1919, it was sold to Norfolk and Western Railroad Company."

It seems to have been more the timber interests that were the attraction.

Dominic Pinto
http://www.ecademy.com/user/dominicpinto
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dominicpinto

e-m: dominic.pinto at ieee.org
Skype: zorrodp
M: +44 780 302-8268
Ph: +44 207 379-8341
In the U.S. M/Cell: +1 215 667-3001
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Sep  7 15:41:37 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 15:41:37 -0400
Subject: NRH&W (Wolf Creek line)
In-Reply-To: <fa3c91530909071144wa36c70cq71393fa11273893e@mail.gmail.com >
References: <fa3c91530909070429x37bf7470sa1d1c4fe2473bd0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<A836722ECB31485C8DE3347677625E52@DellVostro>
	<fa3c91530909071144wa36c70cq71393fa11273893e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0KPM001II993UVY4@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>

The charter for the NRH&W envisioned the line extending to the 
Tennessee or Kentucky border. A 1916 proposed extension from Suiter 
of 6.2 miles up Hunting Camp Creek to the divide between Hunting Camp 
Creek and Lick Creek in Bland County.  As far as I have been able to 
determine no further extensions were planned to reach the destination 
in the original charter.

Over the life of the line there were about 33 stations or locations 
on the line.  Perhaps the lumber operations around Suiter generated 
the most traffic.

Jim Blackstock



At 02:44 PM 9/7/2009, you wrote:
>Gentlemen,
>Yes, I'm referring to the Narrows Branch.  I have been reporting to
>Narrows for the last month or so.  To get there, I've been travelling
>Virginia highway 61, which appears to me to have been built right over
>top of the railroad grade.
>
>So, was this line destined to be built to Saltville?  That is
>certainly possible as it is on the other end of that valley.  I also
>remember reading in a post not too long ago that they were headed for
>Sharon Springs, Ceres, and possibly Bland.  Of course, Bland was not
>on the way to Sharon Springs so I don't know how they wanted to route
>it.
>
>Was there a mine at Suiter?  What was their source of revenue?  Any stations?
>
>Ben Blevins
>
>
>On 9/7/09, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> > Ben,
> >
> > If you are asking about the N&W Narrows Branch that followed Wolf 
> Creek from
> > Giles County into Bland County, Virginia, the following may help.  It is an
> > excerpt from my comment in a 1/2/08 posting on the Mailing List 
> of a 5/21/03
> > Bluefield Daily Telegraph article on this line:
> >
> > This line was built as the standard-gauge New River, Holston and Western
> > Railroad Co., and it had been extended in stages  from its connection with
> > the N&W at Narrows, VA, to Rocky Gap, VA, 20.6 miles, when the N&W acquired
> > the company in December 1912.  But, it continued to operate as the NRH&W,
> > and was extended 14 miles to Suiter, VA. in 1914.  A 1915 schedule shows a
> > passenger train each way the full length of the line.  On June 1, 1919, the
> > NRH&W became the N&W's Narrows Branch, but it never reached Saltville.  In
> > 1942 the 4.13 miles between Suiter and Bastian was abandoned, and in 1946
> > the remainder of the branch was abandoned.
> >
> > Gordon Hamilton
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 7:29 AM
> > Subject: NRH&W (Wolf Creek line)
> >
> >
> >> Hello all.
> >> I was wondering if anyone can tell me when the Wolf Creek Line was
> >> abandoned and why?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Ben Blevins
> >> ________________________________________
> >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >> To change your subscription go to
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> >
> >
> > 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.80/2349 - Release Date: 09/06/09
> > 05:51:00
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> > To change your subscription go to
> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> >
>________________________________________
>NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>To change your subscription go to
>http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>signature database 4403 (20090907) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>http://www.eset.com


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Sep  7 23:12:21 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 23:12:21 -0400
Subject: Twelve Pole today
Message-ID: <895F049E30C84811B31177A6BBF61782@DellVostro>

If you haven't ridden on WV County Route 3/5 that was laid over the N&W's old Twelve Pole line's roadbed you can do the next best thing by taking a vicarious ride at www.YouTube.com.  If you search for "twelvepole road" at the YouTube site you will be treated to a nine-minute trip along the road, through "single-track" bridges and through the "single-track" Breeden tunnel on a Suzuki V-Strom 1000 motorcycle.  If you search for "Dingess Tunnel" you can experience a ride through the long "single-track" Dingess tunnel on the same motorcycle.

Enjoy,

Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Sep  8 03:39:11 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 07:39:11 +0000
Subject: VGN to Huntington
In-Reply-To: <mailman.46.1252331753.22774.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
References: <mailman.46.1252331753.22774.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <BAY143-W49A32FFA5B7D1C224B3BDD1EA0@phx.gbl>


 [Either the reporter or I need a geography lesson.  If the Virginian were to cross the Ohio River on the way to seventeenth street, it would be in Ohio instead of Huntington, WV.] 
 Gordon Hamilton


Gordon...  from this blurb:

"The line, which will be the main line, will extend from Elmore, two and one-half miles from Mullens, down the Guyandotte River for fifty miles, where it will connect with another road which has charter rights to build a line up the Guyandotte on the opposite side of the river from the Chesapeake and Ohio. section."
I gather that it would already on the Ohio side (i.e, the  Kanawha & Michigan) ergo it would be crossing back over to the WV side in Huntington
Robb Fisher
RFDI



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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Sep  8 11:06:12 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:06:12 -0500
Subject: VGN to Huntington
In-Reply-To: <BAY143-W49A32FFA5B7D1C224B3BDD1EA0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.46.1252331753.22774.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
	<BAY143-W49A32FFA5B7D1C224B3BDD1EA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001201ca3095$e81ff7f0$b85fe7d0$@net>

Excuse me, but I thought the K&M ran along the Kanawha, not the Guyandotte.
At any rate, that still does not require a crossing and recrossing of the
Ohio.   Jim Nichols

 

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:39 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: RE: VGN to Huntington

 

 [Either the reporter or I need a geography lesson. If the Virginian were to
cross the Ohio River on the way to seventeenth street, it would be in Ohio
instead of Huntington, WV.] 
 Gordon Hamilton


Gordon...  from this blurb:

"The line, which will be the main line, will extend from Elmore, two and
one-half miles from Mullens, down the Guyandotte River for fifty miles,
where it will connect with another road which has charter rights to build a
line up the Guyandotte on the opposite side of the river from the Chesapeake
and Ohio. section."
I gather that it would already on the Ohio side (i.e, the  Kanawha &
Michigan) ergo it would be crossing back over to the WV side in Huntington
Robb Fisher
RFDI




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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Sep  8 09:56:23 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:56:23 -0400
Subject: Automatic Train Control
In-Reply-To: <357469.45557.qm@web30108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <357469.45557.qm@web30108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CBFEA349342B88-3308-23EFD@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>





Frank-

Without going to my ACL timetables, I'm not sure whether ACL

was equipped for Automatic Train Control or Automatic Train

Stop.? There are minor differences in the two systems.? Some-

time after N&W's application, the ATC system was modified.?

Apparently the engines assigned to the "short runs" and the

Cannonball- Broad Street Station (Richmond) to Petersburg over

the ACL would not integrate with the system on the Shenandoah Division.

In the final days of steam, N&W had streamlined K's equipped for

ACL service - Nos. 121-122-123.? Strictly from memory, it was GP9 503

that was equipped during diesel days.? There was a test track near 

Appomattox Station in Petersburg for ACL's system.? Remember,

the K's didn't go to Acca for service during the layover in Richmond, so

Petersburg had to test for signals.



The maximum authorized speed for diesel-powered ACL passenger

trains (in ATC or ATS) territory was 90 MPH.? In the final days of

ACL Nos. 87/88 (The all pullman Florida Special), I plunked down

the premium?fare and bought a seat in a roomette Richmond-

Rocky Mount just to see what kind of show ACL would put on.

In the midst?of a snow storm,? the signal system failed? and No. 87

moved signal-to-signal at restricted speed.? The conductor noted

that if I'd been on a merry-go-round, I'd have to pay extra for the

ride time.????????????????? Harry Bundy
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Sep  8 17:09:16 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:09:16 -0400
Subject: Virginian in 1910--Passenger train
Message-ID: <A8ECFF1CE4534E41BBB756F52FC856B0@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
February 1, 1910

IN CITY AND COALFIELD
------
To Add Passenger Train

    It is reported here that the Virginian Railway will put on another passenger train between Roanoke and St Albans.  The date for the inauguration of the morning and afternoon service each way has not been announced.
------
[I don't think it ever happened.]

Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Sep  8 17:19:59 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:19:59 -0400
Subject: N&W in 1910--On top of Pullman
Message-ID: <884CD9326BC24EC3A6163F7ADED2A1E9@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
February 1, 1910

ON TOP OF PULLMAN
------
Man Cllinging, Without Gloves, Almost Covered With Snow

    When train No. 4 pulled into Dry Branch yesterday and was passed by No. 1 a strange sight met the gaze of the people on No. 1.  Clinging to the fast moving No. 4 a man was hanging for dear life to the top of a Pullman car.  His hands were without gloves and he was holding on as tight as he could to a handle which was on top of the car.  His body was partly covered with the rapidly falling snow.  Nothing of the man could be learned at the local office yesterday.  It is supposed that at some point where the train had stopped the man had climbed onto the car and was stealing a ride somewhere.  If without gloves, as is thought, it is not likely that the man will have any flesh on his hands when taken from the car.  He should be partly frozen, as the weather was none too warm yesterday, and added to this the breeze which the man must have experienced while riding on top of a car would not have been conducive to warmth.
------
[Unfortunately, I found no follow-up article to this incredible event.]

Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Sep  8 17:04:56 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:04:56 -0400
Subject: Lettering color on early steam
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1248796807.71201.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
References: <mailman.7.1248796807.71201.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <C6BD0157-B6FC-41F5-949B-7DBFD144750A@oscalemag.com>

Gentlemen,
I've been asked by a model company to supply info about the lettering  
on early N&W steam. My information is that the lettering color on  
both passenger and freight pre-1900 steam was gold leaf. Can anyone  
confirm or deny that?
Thanks
Joe Giannovario
O Scale Trains Magazine

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Sep  8 20:51:53 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:51:53 -0400
Subject: Twelve Pole today
References: <895F049E30C84811B31177A6BBF61782@DellVostro>
Message-ID: <33F45CBCACD248BB82E6127765E24322@DESKTOP>

This has to be seen.  Being a West Virginian I can say that this has to be the best engineered highway in the state.  The 1/2 mile tunnel must be a thrill!

--Rick Morrison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu7yGiS54D0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu7yGiS54D0
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: N&W Mailing LIST 
  Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:12 PM
  Subject: Twelve Pole today


  If you haven't ridden on WV County Route 3/5 that was laid over the N&W's old Twelve Pole line's roadbed you can do the next best thing by taking a vicarious ride at www.YouTube.com.  If you search for "twelvepole road" at the YouTube site you will be treated to a nine-minute trip along the road, through "single-track" bridges and through the "single-track" Breeden tunnel on a Suzuki V-Strom 1000 motorcycle.  If you search for "Dingess Tunnel" you can experience a ride through the long "single-track" Dingess tunnel on the same motorcycle.

  Enjoy,

  Gordon Hamilton


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  ________________________________________
  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
  To change your subscription go to
  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
  Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Sep  8 21:20:27 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 21:20:27 -0400
Subject: Lettering color on early steam
References: <mailman.7.1248796807.71201.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
	<C6BD0157-B6FC-41F5-949B-7DBFD144750A@oscalemag.com>
Message-ID: <F96C1E47B459467D9CB9972C1C4C24A5@StudyComputer>

Joe

   I have drawing  F1154  Oct 24 1884 shows gold leaf on passenger tenders 
and gold paint on
fright locomotive tenders

Larry Evans
Kenova, WV


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:04 PM
Subject: Lettering color on early steam


> Gentlemen,
> I've been asked by a model company to supply info about the lettering  on 
> early N&W steam. My information is that the lettering color on  both 
> passenger and freight pre-1900 steam was gold leaf. Can anyone  confirm or 
> deny that?
> Thanks
> Joe Giannovario
> O Scale Trains Magazine
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
> 



From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Sep  8 23:58:07 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 23:58:07 -0400
Subject: Automatic Train Control in N&WHS Newsletter
References: <357469.45557.qm@web30108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<8CBFEA349342B88-3308-23EFD@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <E7C7CD88768A4248A9D281BC8F991578@Jimmy>

    In Vol.1 #5 of the N&WHS Newsletter / Sept.- Oct. 1985, you find a reprint of an article that ran in Railway Age in 1925 titled "N&W Completes Train Control".
    Also mentioned is the fact that the Shenandoah Div. was the first division to get Color Postion Light signals.
    In Vol.2 #5 of the N&WHS Newsletter / Sept.- Oct. 1986, there is another reprint from Railway Age in 1956 titled "End of ATC".
    I thought the three or four of us "Valley" fans would like to reread these articles.
Jimmy Lisle
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 08:03:33 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 08:03:33 EDT
Subject: Automatic Train Control in N&WHS Newsletter
Message-ID: <d6a.4d7124b3.37d8f395@aol.com>

Jimmy,
 
As a certified Valley fan, sometimes I wonder why in the early days the  
Valley line was often the first to get new technology and now it is usually 
the  last.
 
Also, I was transferring some video to DVD the other night and I came  
across the News 7 story about the first day of the Conrail takeover. The big  
news was the expected traffic on the valley line was supposed to triple. They  
put up all the signs that said, "warning, increased train traffic..." and 
after  a year or so they took them down. I was looking forward to the extra 
traffic  myself!
 
Thanks,
 
Richard D. Shell
"Nace" VA
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 06:20:27 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 06:20:27 -0400
Subject: Lettering color on early steam
In-Reply-To: <F96C1E47B459467D9CB9972C1C4C24A5@StudyComputer>
References: <mailman.7.1248796807.71201.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org><C6BD0157-B6FC-41F5-949B-7DBFD144750A@oscalemag.com>
	<F96C1E47B459467D9CB9972C1C4C24A5@StudyComputer>
Message-ID: <2649CFC887C144E29F547CA7A2C98CD2@silver>

It appears to me, that in VERY early photos of N&W locomotives (perhaps 
freight only) that the lettering is white rather than gold, for example the 
picture of the first loco produced by Roanoke.  Anyone else have data?
Jim Cochran
dcochran116 at roadrunner.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam


> Joe
>
>   I have drawing  F1154  Oct 24 1884 shows gold leaf on passenger tenders 
> and gold paint on
> fright locomotive tenders
>
> Larry Evans
> Kenova, WV
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:04 PM
> Subject: Lettering color on early steam
>
>
>> Gentlemen,
>> I've been asked by a model company to supply info about the lettering  on 
>> early N&W steam. My information is that the lettering color on  both 
>> passenger and freight pre-1900 steam was gold leaf. Can anyone  confirm 
>> or deny that?
>> Thanks
>> Joe Giannovario
>> O Scale Trains Magazine
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> 


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 09:04:20 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 09:04:20 -0400
Subject: FYI: VMT - Night Photo Session
Message-ID: <4AA7A7D4.8030206@vt.edu>

The Roanoke Night Photo Session at VMT
The Virginia Museum of Transportation

> Experience and photograph N&W 611 and N&W 1218 in what may be as close
> to operational service as they will ever look again! We will have fog and smoke
> devices as well as props and actors in order to recreate 1950's scenes. All of the
> lights in the museum will be turned off, leaving only our lights on for photography.

November 13th-14th 2009
7:00pm-11:00pm

http://www.lerroproductions.com/roanoke.htm

http://vmt.org/calendar.html


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 09:44:56 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:44:56 -0400
Subject: Automatic Train Control in N&WHS Newsletter
References: <d6a.4d7124b3.37d8f395@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CC05C9749E574FBF95927F4292A88EA0@DESKTOP>

Richard:

The rail traffic did increase on the Hagerstown District north of Riverton Junction (Front Royal). There are days where it seems to have tripled, but that's not consistent.  I worry about the future of the line between Front Royal and Roanoke.  Maybe Jimmy can explain why so much traffic is diverted to the old Southern main at Manassas.  As for the signs about increased train traffic, I think they only had to be posted for a specified amount of time.

--Rick Morrison
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 8:03 AM
  Subject: Re: Automatic Train Control in N&WHS Newsletter


  Jimmy,

  As a certified Valley fan, sometimes I wonder why in the early days the Valley line was often the first to get new technology and now it is usually the last.

  Also, I was transferring some video to DVD the other night and I came across the News 7 story about the first day of the Conrail takeover. The big news was the expected traffic on the valley line was supposed to triple. They put up all the signs that said, "warning, increased train traffic..." and after a year or so they took them down. I was looking forward to the extra traffic myself!

  Thanks,

  Richard D. Shell
  "Nace" VA


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  ________________________________________
  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
  To change your subscription go to
  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
  Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 10:25:45 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 10:25:45 -0400
Subject: Automatic Train Control in N&WHS Newsletter
References: <357469.45557.qm@web30108.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CBFEA349342B88-3308-23EFD@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>
	<E7C7CD88768A4248A9D281BC8F991578@Jimmy>
Message-ID: <2BC8059E4C4C475BA2C64AC2F69516BC@Jimmy>

"the Shenandoah Div. was the first division to get Color Postion Light signals."

OOPS...Where is my proofreader when I need her? That should read ..."Position Light signals".
Jimmy Lisle
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 10:55:28 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 10:55:28 -0400
Subject: Automatic Train Control in N&WHS Newsletter
References: <d6a.4d7124b3.37d8f395@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002e01ca315d$921e9dc0$6500a8c0@Dad>

Richard,

I think the predictions of greatly increased traffic on the Valley were tied in with the expectation that a major intermodal terminal would now be constructed somewhere near or north of Hagerstown on the CR Cumberland Valley line.  Supposedly NS had wanted to route much of its intermodal traffic from the Northeast to the Mid-South down this line but Conrail was not being cooperative.  I think the expectation was that, with Conrail's foot-dragging out of the way, NS would get to work quickly in setting up the intermodal facility and rerouting traffic.  I recently saw an article (someone may have posted it on this site) announcing that NS is finally going to do this.  Makes you wonder if Conrail had really been the major problem.  Of course, the economy might have had something to do with the delay, but there was a long period of economic and traffic boom between the NS-Conrail merger and the present recession.

Sam Putney
 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 8:03 AM
  Subject: Re: Automatic Train Control in N&WHS Newsletter


  Jimmy,

  As a certified Valley fan, sometimes I wonder why in the early days the Valley line was often the first to get new technology and now it is usually the last.

  Also, I was transferring some video to DVD the other night and I came across the News 7 story about the first day of the Conrail takeover. The big news was the expected traffic on the valley line was supposed to triple. They put up all the signs that said, "warning, increased train traffic..." and after a year or so they took them down. I was looking forward to the extra traffic myself!

  Thanks,

  Richard D. Shell
  "Nace" VA


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  ________________________________________
  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
  To change your subscription go to
  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
  Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 11:59:58 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:59:58 -0400
Subject: Lettering color on early steam
In-Reply-To: <2649CFC887C144E29F547CA7A2C98CD2@silver>
References: <mailman.7.1248796807.71201.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org><C6BD0157-B6FC-41F5-949B-7DBFD144750A@oscalemag.com>
	<F96C1E47B459467D9CB9972C1C4C24A5@StudyComputer> 
	<2649CFC887C144E29F547CA7A2C98CD2@silver>
Message-ID: <COL103-W21CB372FAC1271D030F36EAFE90@phx.gbl>


In generic terms, what is gold leaf comprised of? and how is it applied to the prototypes?

 

Thanks,

Dave Willis

(blt 1962, c/n 4)
 
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 06:20:27 -0400
> From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> 
> It appears to me, that in VERY early photos of N&W locomotives (perhaps 
> freight only) that the lettering is white rather than gold, for example the 
> picture of the first loco produced by Roanoke. Anyone else have data?
> Jim Cochran
> dcochran116 at roadrunner.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
> 
> 
> > Joe
> >
> > I have drawing F1154 Oct 24 1884 shows gold leaf on passenger tenders 
> > and gold paint on
> > fright locomotive tenders
> >
> > Larry Evans
> > Kenova, WV
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:04 PM
> > Subject: Lettering color on early steam
> >
> >
> >> Gentlemen,
> >> I've been asked by a model company to supply info about the lettering on 
> >> early N&W steam. My information is that the lettering color on both 
> >> passenger and freight pre-1900 steam was gold leaf. Can anyone confirm 
> >> or deny that?
> >> Thanks
> >> Joe Giannovario
> >> O Scale Trains Magazine
> >> ________________________________________
> >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >> To change your subscription go to
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 12:23:07 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:23:07 -0400
Subject: Early lettering color
In-Reply-To: <mailman.14.1252498944.61575.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
References: <mailman.14.1252498944.61575.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <CA19DAA9-6FCD-4481-9DE7-547018219C56@oscalemag.com>

Would anyone know if that "gold" would be Dulux Gold, i.e., yellow?  
Otherwise, why the distinction between gold and gold leaf?
Thanks
Joe G.

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 10:29:53 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 10:29:53 -0400
Subject: Automatic Train Control in N&WHS Newsletter
References: <d6a.4d7124b3.37d8f395@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0AD0FF8E82434C069D280257F3F7BEDE@Jimmy>

"I was looking forward to the extra traffic myself!"

Richard,
    Yeah, I was too. Seems as though the Valley always gets the short end of the stick. It's been going on since the Southern merger. Back when we had an ID run to Hagerstown, the dispatchers would always give priority to the Southern crews at Riverton Junction!
Jimmy
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 16:07:30 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:07:30 -0400
Subject: Early lettering color
References: <mailman.14.1252498944.61575.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
	<CA19DAA9-6FCD-4481-9DE7-547018219C56@oscalemag.com>
Message-ID: <943A3DEDDC7A4259A19E186B4FC59BEE@StudyComputer>

Who knows? One thing for sure it would not be Dulux as it
was not around in1884. Dulux is a DuPont trade name from the 
40s or 50s

Larry Evans
Kenova,WV

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: Early lettering color


> Would anyone know if that "gold" would be Dulux Gold, i.e., yellow?  
> Otherwise, why the distinction between gold and gold leaf?
> Thanks
> Joe G.
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 17:50:00 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:50:00 -0400
Subject: Lettering color on early steam
In-Reply-To: <COL103-W21CB372FAC1271D030F36EAFE90@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.7.1248796807.71201.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org><C6BD0157-B6FC-41F5-949B-7DBFD144750A@oscalemag.com><F96C1E47B459467D9CB9972C1C4C24A5@StudyComputer>
	<2649CFC887C144E29F547CA7A2C98CD2@silver>
	<COL103-W21CB372FAC1271D030F36EAFE90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DB0BF3202C8943D194F50468FAC20674@071927350f>

Strictly speaking gold leaf is gold beaten extensively between two sheets of
leather so that it forms an extremely thin sheet, about 0.001" thick and
thinner. Gold is a very soft, plastic metal in pure form.  This thin sheet
would be cut up adhesively applied to jewelry and furniture.  This
technology goes back centuries.  This was not used on locomotives.  Too
expensive.

 

Gold leaf paint is paint that has actual 'ground-up' powder of actual gold
metal in it as the pigment.  Thus, it is costly.

 

"Gold" paint today has some other ground up mineral as the powder that
mimics the color and reflectivity of gold (Au) but doesn't cost that much.
Iron Pyrite (all that glitters is not gold) used to be part of the pigment
but that too became too costly.

 

DULUX gold paint is a yellow pigmented paint that is not based on a metallic
pigment.  But, it looks gold-like.  Cheaper.

 

Gary Rolih

Cincinnati

 

 

  _____  

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:00 PM
To: Norfolk Western Mailing List
Subject: RE: Lettering color on early steam

 

In generic terms, what is gold leaf comprised of? and how is it applied to
the prototypes?
 
Thanks,
Dave Willis
(blt 1962, c/n 4)
 
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 06:20:27 -0400
> From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> 
> It appears to me, that in VERY early photos of N&W locomotives (perhaps 
> freight only) that the lettering is white rather than gold, for example
the 
> picture of the first loco produced by Roanoke. Anyone else have data?
> Jim Cochran
> dcochran116 at roadrunner.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
> 
> 
> > Joe
> >
> > I have drawing F1154 Oct 24 1884 shows gold leaf on passenger tenders 
> > and gold paint on
> > fright locomotive tenders
> >
> > Larry Evans
> > Kenova, WV
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:04 PM
> > Subject: Lettering color on early steam
> >
> >
> >> Gentlemen,
> >> I've been asked by a model company to supply info about the lettering
on 
> >> early N&W steam. My information is that the lettering color on both 
> >> passenger and freight pre-1900 steam was gold leaf. Can anyone confirm 
> >> or deny that?
> >> Thanks
> >> Joe Giannovario
> >> O Scale Trains Magazine
> >> ________________________________________
> >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >> To change your subscription go to
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

  _____  

HotmailR is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now.
<http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:
WM_HYGN_faster:082009> 

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 20:31:29 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 20:31:29 -0400
Subject: N&W in 1910--Double track
Message-ID: <68AC4C88B5724FB8ACB8CB284E344550@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
February 2, 1910

SEVENTY-FIVE MILES OF DOUBLE TRACK
------
Bids Opened at Roanoke And Who GetsContracts Will Not be Known For Several Days

    Roanoke, Va., Feb. 1--Bids were opened today by Chief Engineer Chas. S. Churchill of the Norfolk and Western for the construction of about seventy-five miles of double track in West Virginia and Ohio, and the construction of a 4, 700 foot tunnel on the branch line from Bluff City, Va., to Iaeger, W. Va., and a number of large railroad contractors are in the city looking after their interests.
    The bids were on building double track at the following points:
    In West Virginian:  Vivian to Huger, five and a half miles, Wyoming to Alnwick, three miles, milepost 27 1-2 to milepost 44 1-2 [On the Big Sandy Low Grade Line?], seven miles.  A total distance of thirteen and a half miles [Fifteen and a half miles?]
    In Ohio: From Rock to Williamsburg, thirteen miles.
    From Davis to Waverly, twenty-three miles.
    From Renick to Delano, six miles.
    From Gregg to Cromley, eight miles.  A total in Ohio of fifty-three miles [Fifty miles?].
    Among the prominent contractors represented at the opening of the bids were the Luck Construction Company; Mason, Hanger & Coleman; Peroell & Sheehan; Samuel Walton and John T. McKinney.
    It will require several days to tabulate the bids and arrive at a conclusion as to who will be awarded the various contracts.
------
[Some of the proper names were indistinct on the microfilm so the best interpretations are shown.]

Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 16:17:51 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 15:17:51 -0500
Subject: Lettering color on early steam
In-Reply-To: <COL103-W21CB372FAC1271D030F36EAFE90@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.7.1248796807.71201.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org><C6BD0157-B6FC-41F5-949B-7DBFD144750A@oscalemag.com>	<F96C1E47B459467D9CB9972C1C4C24A5@StudyComputer>
	<2649CFC887C144E29F547CA7A2C98CD2@silver>
	<COL103-W21CB372FAC1271D030F36EAFE90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <002701ca318a$9c185a50$d4490ef0$@net>

Gold leaf is a thin foil of actual gold metal. It is applied over a "ground"
color (usually buff), and I assume some sort of adhesive is used. Generally,
a black outline was then painted around the lettering. The reason for going
to dulux  imitation gold, naturally, is cost. Lower cost for raw material
and much less labor. And, generally no black outline, further reducing labor
cost.   Jim Nichols

 

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:00 AM
To: Norfolk Western Mailing List
Subject: RE: Lettering color on early steam

 

In generic terms, what is gold leaf comprised of? and how is it applied to
the prototypes?
 
Thanks,
Dave Willis
(blt 1962, c/n 4)
 
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 06:20:27 -0400
> From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> 
> It appears to me, that in VERY early photos of N&W locomotives (perhaps 
> freight only) that the lettering is white rather than gold, for example
the 
> picture of the first loco produced by Roanoke. Anyone else have data?
> Jim Cochran
> dcochran116 at roadrunner.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
> 
> 
> > Joe
> >
> > I have drawing F1154 Oct 24 1884 shows gold leaf on passenger tenders 
> > and gold paint on
> > fright locomotive tenders
> >
> > Larry Evans
> > Kenova, WV
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:04 PM
> > Subject: Lettering color on early steam
> >
> >
> >> Gentlemen,
> >> I've been asked by a model company to supply info about the lettering
on 
> >> early N&W steam. My information is that the lettering color on both 
> >> passenger and freight pre-1900 steam was gold leaf. Can anyone confirm 
> >> or deny that?
> >> Thanks
> >> Joe Giannovario
> >> O Scale Trains Magazine
> >> ________________________________________
> >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >> To change your subscription go to
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

  _____  

HotmailR is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now.
<http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:
WM_HYGN_faster:082009> 

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 17:19:28 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:19:28 -0400
Subject: Automatic Train Control in N&WHS Newsletter
References: <357469.45557.qm@web30108.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CBFEA349342B88-3308-23EFD@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com><E7C7CD88768A4248A9D281BC8F991578@Jimmy>
	<2BC8059E4C4C475BA2C64AC2F69516BC@Jimmy>
Message-ID: <09D7B4124CAA4B7CA2AC35EB08DF8AD4@DESKTOP>

Jimmy, if my memory is correct the Shenandoah Division got color position lights about 1962 or 1963.

--Rick Morrison
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: NW Mailing List 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 10:25 AM
  Subject: Re: Automatic Train Control in N&WHS Newsletter


  "the Shenandoah Div. was the first division to get Color Postion Light signals."

  OOPS...Where is my proofreader when I need her? That should read ..."Position Light signals".
  Jimmy Lisle


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  ________________________________________
  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
  To change your subscription go to
  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
  Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 17:36:26 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:36:26 -0400
Subject: Traffic on the Valley
References: <d6a.4d7124b3.37d8f395@aol.com>
	<002e01ca315d$921e9dc0$6500a8c0@Dad>
Message-ID: <25554461F69D48FABDA66CCC448EBDFF@DESKTOP>

Sam is correct about the Intermodal facility on the former Conrail north of Hagerstown.  Actually it will be at Greencastle, PA a few miles north of Hagerstown, and convenient to I-81.  Several years ago, NS hoped to place this facility on land they owned in the Vardo yard area south of Hagerstown.  The county objected to it because they did not want increased truck traffic on roads there. PA seems happy to be getting the facility.  It will be on a 200 acre site.  When N&W built Vardo, circa 1917, they bought a farm so they have a lot of acreage west of the yard that will be developed someday whether the locals like it or not.

If what I read is true about California's Pacific sea terminals losing container ships when the new canal is built across Central America, I predict the shipping will go to Gulf of Mexico ports, and NS will see a lot of northbound container traffic.  Presently, the new CSX terminal at Chambersburg, PA sees one inbound and one outbound container train each day.

--Rick Morrison 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: NW Mailing List 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 10:55 AM
  Subject: Re: Automatic Train Control in N&WHS Newsletter


  Richard,

  I think the predictions of greatly increased traffic on the Valley were tied in with the expectation that a major intermodal terminal would now be constructed somewhere near or north of Hagerstown on the CR Cumberland Valley line.  Supposedly NS had wanted to route much of its intermodal traffic from the Northeast to the Mid-South down this line but Conrail was not being cooperative.  I think the expectation was that, with Conrail's foot-dragging out of the way, NS would get to work quickly in setting up the intermodal facility and rerouting traffic.  I recently saw an article (someone may have posted it on this site) announcing that NS is finally going to do this.  Makes you wonder if Conrail had really been the major problem.  Of course, the economy might have had something to do with the delay, but there was a long period of economic and traffic boom between the NS-Conrail merger and the present recession.

  Sam Putney




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  ________________________________________
  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
  To change your subscription go to
  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
  Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Sep  9 17:06:48 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:06:48 -0400
Subject: Lettering color on early steam
References: <mailman.7.1248796807.71201.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org><C6BD0157-B6FC-41F5-949B-7DBFD144750A@oscalemag.com><F96C1E47B459467D9CB9972C1C4C24A5@StudyComputer>
	<2649CFC887C144E29F547CA7A2C98CD2@silver>
	<COL103-W21CB372FAC1271D030F36EAFE90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C6CE90A8023742EA8A311E485D6C164C@DESKTOP>

Gold leaf is 22k gold hammered micro thin.  It comes in little booklets and the gold leaves are separated by tissue paper.  The leaves have to be lifted into place on a tacky surface and burnished smooth with a fine brush.  For more details see: http://users.lmi.net/drewid/Gold_leaf.html.  BTW, the N&W business car fleet, at least up to the NS merger, was lettered in gold leaf outlined with black pinstriping. I have closeup photos of the lettering and you can see how each leaf is slightly overlapped within just one letter.  It is painstaking work and traditionally sign painters were skilled in working with it.  Imitation gold leaf is available, but it doesn't have the impact and durability of the real thing.

--Rick Morrison


---- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: Norfolk Western Mailing List 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:59 AM
  Subject: RE: Lettering color on early steam


  In generic terms, what is gold leaf comprised of? and how is it applied to the prototypes?
   
  Thanks,
  Dave Willis
  (blt 1962, c/n 4)
   
  > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
  > Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
  > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 06:20:27 -0400
  > From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
  > 
  > It appears to me, that in VERY early photos of N&W locomotives (perhaps 
  > freight only) that the lettering is white rather than gold, for example the 
  > picture of the first loco produced by Roanoke. Anyone else have data?
  > Jim Cochran
  > dcochran116 at roadrunner.com
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
  > To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
  > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:20 PM
  > Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
  > 
  > 
  > > Joe
  > >
  > > I have drawing F1154 Oct 24 1884 shows gold leaf on passenger tenders 
  > > and gold paint on
  > > fright locomotive tenders
  > >
  > > Larry Evans
  > > Kenova, WV
  > >
  > >
  > > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > > From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
  > > To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
  > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:04 PM
  > > Subject: Lettering color on early steam
  > >
  > >
  > >> Gentlemen,
  > >> I've been asked by a model company to supply info about the lettering on 
  > >> early N&W steam. My information is that the lettering color on both 
  > >> passenger and freight pre-1900 steam was gold leaf. Can anyone confirm 
  > >> or deny that?
  > >> Thanks
  > >> Joe Giannovario
  > >> O Scale Trains Magazine
  > >> ________________________________________
  > >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
  > >> To change your subscription go to
  > >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
  > >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
  > >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  ________________________________________
  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
  To change your subscription go to
  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
  Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Sep 10 06:53:47 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:53:47 -0400
Subject: "Taking Twenty" with the Virginian Brethren
Message-ID: <4AA8DABB.8090609@vt.edu>

Last night I had the pleasure of "Takin' Twenty" with 8 of the Brethren and 
Friends of the Virginian Railway. Most of the discussion concerned 
tomorrow's dedication ceremony of our new flag pole at the Virginian 
Station at 11 AM. Since Landon Gregory is representing the Brethren, and 
making "a few remarks", they asked me to seat him between Mayor Bowers of 
Roanoke and State Senator Edwards. Ruf said that this will make him "sort 
of a politician".

As we left the Restaurant last week, Landon Gregory overheard a 
conversation, while in the cashier's line, about the Shenandoah Division 
and stopped to talk to three gentlemen. Turns out the elderly gentlemen was 
Claude Woolfolk, who started out on the Virginian in the MW gang, Norfolk 
Division. Mr. Woolfolk was hard of hearing so his son did most of the 
talking for him. Seems that Mr. Woolfolk's father, when he found out he had 
gotten a job on the VGN, gave him a $40 mule. Mr. Woolfolk used the mule to 
clean out ditches along the right of way and was paid 47 cents an hour for 
himself and 3 cents an hour for the mule. He went on to be an N&W MW 
supervisor after the merger in the Engineering Department, Shenandoah 
Division. As the conversation continued, Mr. Woolfolk asked Landon "Do you 
know Landon Gregory?" Seems that they had communicated when Landon was an 
operator and dispatcher but had never met face to face until last week!

I showed the Brethren photos taken of them by Doug and Marcelle Bess who 
visited us last week from Lithonia, Georgia. Also passed around was a photo 
I got off railpictures of a BNSF work train taken last month with a 
caboose, crane, flat and 10 hoppers pulled by a large high rail truck at 
Grand Forks, ND. To see this photo go to:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=296580

The DVDs included one showing the actual setting of our new 30' flag pole 
into its base and the first "test flag" raised on it. Also one DVD showed a 
very picturesque passing of a "fast flying" coal train at Kumis.

Also passed around were two of the Virginian Railway Standard Drawings 
books, available at the N&W (and VGN) Historical Society. They were Book 
"B" Masonry, and Book "C" Trestles.

Rufus Wingfield and Raymond East remembered that right after the merger in 
'59, a drilling was done across and under South Yard for fiber optic cable 
by N&W.

Frank Breedlove, VGN Brakeman and Conductor, also played third base for the 
Virginian Baseball Team. Once after a game with a team that had a very 
fast, but wild, pitcher, Frank was asked if he got any hits. He answered 
"yes, one in the gut, one in the butt and one in the back". Most agree that 
the best VGN player was Elmer Gene "Bunk" Gibson. Gibson once inquired 
about an ad in the Roanoke paper for ballplayers for the Roanoke Red Sox of 
the Pro Piedmont League. He tried out and they asked him to play the next 
day in a game at Maher Field, just across Naval Reserve Avenue from the 
Virginian Yard. "Bunk" who worked in the yard, marked off sick and went to 
the afternoon game. When he hit a triple, the PA blasted out his name and 
the yardmaster said "here I am paying a brakeman time and a half and 'Bunk' 
is playing ball". Frank said that "Bunk" was also an avid deer and turkey 
hunter and consider himself a professional sportsman. Once he and Frank 
were on their way hunting to Watts Creek in "Bunk's" 1961 American Rambler. 
When they arrived, "Bunk" was anxious and loaded his Model 12 Winchester in 
the Rambler and accidentally shot out the back window. Frank said that he 
took the car to the deer checking station and told the warden that "he 
wanted to check in a 2 point Rambler".

Time to pull the pin on this one!

Departing Now from V248,

Skip Salmon

=============

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Sep 10 07:55:54 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:55:54 -0400
Subject: Lettering color on early steam
In-Reply-To: <C6CE90A8023742EA8A311E485D6C164C@DESKTOP>
References: <mailman.7.1248796807.71201.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org><C6BD0157-B6FC-41F5-949B-7DBFD144750A@oscalemag.com><F96C1E47B459467D9CB9972C1C4C24A5@StudyComputer>
	<2649CFC887C144E29F547CA7A2C98CD2@silver>
	<COL103-W21CB372FAC1271D030F36EAFE90@phx.gbl> 
	<C6CE90A8023742EA8A311E485D6C164C@DESKTOP>
Message-ID: <COL103-W153EBF6075F7FAC604B1B0AFE80@phx.gbl>


Rick,

Can you post an example photo?
Thanks,

Dave.


To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:06:48 -0400
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org




Gold leaf is 22k gold hammered micro thin.  It comes in little booklets and the gold leaves are separated by tissue paper.  The leaves have to be lifted into place on a tacky surface and burnished smooth with a fine brush.  For more details see: http://users.lmi.net/drewid/Gold_leaf.html.  BTW, the N&W business car fleet, at least up to the NS merger, was lettered in gold leaf outlined with black pinstriping. I have closeup photos of the lettering and you can see how each leaf is slightly overlapped within just one letter.  It is painstaking work and traditionally sign painters were skilled in working with it.  Imitation gold leaf is available, but it doesn't have the impact and durability of the real thing.
 
--Rick Morrison
 
 
---- Original Message ----- 

From: NW Mailing List 
To: Norfolk Western Mailing List 
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:59 AM
Subject: RE: Lettering color on early steam

In generic terms, what is gold leaf comprised of? and how is it applied to the prototypes?
 
Thanks,
Dave Willis
(blt 1962, c/n 4)
 
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 06:20:27 -0400
> From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> 
> It appears to me, that in VERY early photos of N&W locomotives (perhaps 
> freight only) that the lettering is white rather than gold, for example the 
> picture of the first loco produced by Roanoke. Anyone else have data?
> Jim Cochran
> dcochran116 at roadrunner.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
> 
> 
> > Joe
> >
> > I have drawing F1154 Oct 24 1884 shows gold leaf on passenger tenders 
> > and gold paint on
> > fright locomotive tenders
> >
> > Larry Evans
> > Kenova, WV
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:04 PM
> > Subject: Lettering color on early steam
> >
> >
> >> Gentlemen,
> >> I've been asked by a model company to supply info about the lettering on 
> >> early N&W steam. My information is that the lettering color on both 
> >> passenger and freight pre-1900 steam was gold leaf. Can anyone confirm 
> >> or deny that?
> >> Thanks
> >> Joe Giannovario
> >> O Scale Trains Magazine
> >> ________________________________________
> >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >> To change your subscription go to
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/



Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. 




________________________________________
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To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
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Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Sep 10 10:10:04 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:10:04 -0400
Subject: Automatic Train Control in N&WHS Newsletter
In-Reply-To: <d6a.4d7124b3.37d8f395@aol.com>
References: <d6a.4d7124b3.37d8f395@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CC003786FCBBE1-2054-24B1D@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com>




-----Also, I was transferring some video to DVD the other night and I came across the News 7 story about the first day of the Conrail takeover. The big news was the expected traffic on the valley line was supposed to triple. They put up all the signs that said, "warning, increased train traffic..." and after a year or so they took them down. I was looking forward to the extra traffic myself!

?

???? Beginning with the N&W/Southern merger, the policy-makers at Southern seemed to dominate.? Southern

had a run-through Potomac Yard to Sheffield, AL.?via Salisbury-Atlanta-B'ham -950 miles. Via?Montview-

N&W-Bristol-Knoxville, the mileage would have been 770 miles.? When the new NS came along, was the

run-through rerouted ?? NO!?? When?traffic shifted to Hagerstown, rather than move traffic down the

Shenanoah Division, the new NS elected?to haul it over Manassas Gap.? It's been improved, but the

Manassas Gap line?was "dark" territory and had one short passing siding.? A GP9 was rated at 900 tons.

It's also interesting to note that NS has (or had ?) trackage rights on CSX Glasgow to Lynchburg - 29.8

miles.? How about hauling traffic down the Valley to Glasgow, then CSX to Lynchburg (Durmid) and

NS to Spencer ?? It's 24 mi. shorter than the Manassas Gap route.? Nothin' doing - trains are incurring

an hour delay (average) on CSX.? But now there's a new route proposed -? a 30 or 40 mi. cut-off from

Linden (near Front Royal) to Culpeper.?? It'll reduce the mileage via?Manassas.? Several routes are

proposed.? One involves a tunnel (about two mi. long).?? Harry Bundy

??

???? Beginning with the N&W/Southern merger, the policy-makers at Southern seemed to dominate.? Southern
had a run-through Potomac Yard to Sheffield, AL.?via Salisbury-Atlanta-B'ham -950 miles. Via?Montview-

N&W-Bristol-Knoxville, the mileage would have been 770 miles.? When the new NS came along, was the

run-through rerouted ?? NO!?? When?traffic shifted to Hagerstown, rather than move traffic down the

Shenanoah Division, the new NS elected?to haul it over Manassas Gap.? It's been improved, but the

Manassas Gap line?was "dark" territory and had one short passing siding.? A GP9 was rated at 900 tons.

It's also interesting to note that NS has (or had ?) trackage rights on CSX Glasgow to Lynchburg - 29.8

miles.? How about hauling traffic down the Valley to Glasgow, then CSX to Lynchburg (Durmid) and

NS to Spencer ?? It's 24 mi. shorter than the Manassas Gap route.? Nothin' doing - trains are incurring

an hour delay (average) on CSX.? But now there's a new route proposed -? a 30 or 40 mi. cut-off from

Linden (near Front Royal) to Culpeper.?? It'll reduce the mileage via?Manassas.? Several routes are

proposed.? One involves a tunnel (about two mi. long).?? Harry Bundy

??


________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
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http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Sep 10 12:34:31 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:34:31 -0400
Subject: Lettering color
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1252598407.43457.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
References: <mailman.5.1252598407.43457.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <86DE1E88-CC98-4E80-9BC9-5AE9E95874D9@oscalemag.com>

Thanks to everyone for the inputs on the color of lettering.
Regards
Joe Giannovario
Publisher
O Scale Trains Magazine


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Sep 10 12:04:19 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:04:19 -0400
Subject: Convention Contests
Message-ID: <000601ca3230$5c8a31a0$159e94e0$@net>

Didn't see the results of the various convention contests in T.A.F. Anyone
have the results?  Many thanks.

 

Todd Arnett

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Sep 10 13:34:35 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:34:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: VGN bridge over New River & NW at Glen Lyn, VA
Message-ID: <734339.20530.qm@web111209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Are there photos of the deck truss bridge at Glen Lyn somewhere in the archives?
Mike Shockley


      
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Sep 10 16:53:13 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:53:13 -0500
Subject: Convention Contests
In-Reply-To: <000601ca3230$5c8a31a0$159e94e0$@net>
References: <000601ca3230$5c8a31a0$159e94e0$@net>
Message-ID: <002401ca3258$b810a590$2831f0b0$@net>

My guess is that results (maybe with photos) will be in next issue of The
Arrow.   Jim Nichols

 

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:04 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Convention Contests

 

Didn't see the results of the various convention contests in T.A.F. Anyone
have the results?  Many thanks.

 

Todd Arnett

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Sep 10 19:20:13 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:20:13 -0400
Subject: Lettering color on early steam
References: <mailman.7.1248796807.71201.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org><C6BD0157-B6FC-41F5-949B-7DBFD144750A@oscalemag.com><F96C1E47B459467D9CB9972C1C4C24A5@StudyComputer><2649CFC887C144E29F547CA7A2C98CD2@silver><COL103-W21CB372FAC1271D030F36EAFE90@phx.gbl>
	<DB0BF3202C8943D194F50468FAC20674@071927350f>
Message-ID: <1041D15F5710485B8F7D56B33F733D98@StudyComputer>

Gary

   " This was not used on locomotives" 

What do you base this statement on? I do not have any first hand knowledge about Locomotive lettering with gold leaf.
But I do know for fact the N&W and C&O used real gold leaf in passenger applications. And would think it would
be in the realm of possibility that in the day they may have use it on passenger locomotives as the drawing suggest.

Larry



----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: 'NW Mailing List' 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:50 PM
  Subject: RE: Lettering color on early steam


  Strictly speaking gold leaf is gold beaten extensively between two sheets of leather so that it forms an extremely thin sheet, about 0.001" thick and thinner. Gold is a very soft, plastic metal in pure form.  This thin sheet would be cut up adhesively applied to jewelry and furniture.  This technology goes back centuries.  This was not used on locomotives.  Too expensive.

   

  Gold leaf paint is paint that has actual 'ground-up' powder of actual gold metal in it as the pigment.  Thus, it is costly.

   

  "Gold" paint today has some other ground up mineral as the powder that mimics the color and reflectivity of gold (Au) but doesn't cost that much.  Iron Pyrite (all that glitters is not gold) used to be part of the pigment but that too became too costly.

   

  DULUX gold paint is a yellow pigmented paint that is not based on a metallic pigment.  But, it looks gold-like.  Cheaper.

   

  Gary Rolih

  Cincinnati

   

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
  Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:00 PM
  To: Norfolk Western Mailing List
  Subject: RE: Lettering color on early steam

   

  In generic terms, what is gold leaf comprised of? and how is it applied to the prototypes?
   
  Thanks,
  Dave Willis
  (blt 1962, c/n 4)
   
  > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
  > Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
  > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 06:20:27 -0400
  > From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
  > 
  > It appears to me, that in VERY early photos of N&W locomotives (perhaps 
  > freight only) that the lettering is white rather than gold, for example the 
  > picture of the first loco produced by Roanoke. Anyone else have data?
  > Jim Cochran
  > dcochran116 at roadrunner.com
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
  > To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
  > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:20 PM
  > Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
  > 
  > 
  > > Joe
  > >
  > > I have drawing F1154 Oct 24 1884 shows gold leaf on passenger tenders 
  > > and gold paint on
  > > fright locomotive tenders
  > >
  > > Larry Evans
  > > Kenova, WV
  > >
  > >
  > > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > > From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
  > > To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
  > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:04 PM
  > > Subject: Lettering color on early steam
  > >
  > >
  > >> Gentlemen,
  > >> I've been asked by a model company to supply info about the lettering on 
  > >> early N&W steam. My information is that the lettering color on both 
  > >> passenger and freight pre-1900 steam was gold leaf. Can anyone confirm 
  > >> or deny that?
  > >> Thanks
  > >> Joe Giannovario
  > >> O Scale Trains Magazine
  > >> ________________________________________
  > >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
  > >> To change your subscription go to
  > >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
  > >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
  > >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now.



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  To change your subscription go to
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  Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Sep 10 22:20:15 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:20:15 -0400
Subject: N&W in 1910--New equipment
Message-ID: <8EFD65A23E4F4A77907F3B7CD85822AC@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
February 2, 1910

FIFTY LOCOMOTIVES AND 2,500 FREIGHT CARS
------
Total Amount of Norfolk and Western Contracts for Rolling Stock Exceeds $3,500,000

    Roanoke, Va., Feb. 1--The Norfolk and Western Railway Company gave out contracts today for 2,500 cars and fifty locomotives.  The total amounts of the contracts exceeded $3,500,000.
    Contracts were awarded as follows:
    American Locomotive Works, Richmond, sixteen passenger engines.
    Baldwin Locomotive Works, Philadelphia, forty freight engines.
    American Car and Foundry Company, Huntington, W. Va. 1,500 all steel cars, 50,000 capacity.
    American Car and Foundry Company, Huntington, W. Va. 500 steel side and underframe box cars, 40,000 pounds capacity.
    Western Steel Car and Foundry Co. Hegewisch, Ill. 500 all steel, fifty-ton gondolas.
    These concerns are under contract to begin delivery of these orders June 1, and it is fully expected that the entire combined orders of locomotives and cars will be ready for use by the time the proposed double trackage through the coal fields and through Ohio is completed.
-------
[I'll bet the "50,000 capacity" and "40,000 pounds capacity" were actually 50-tons capacity and 40-tons capacity, respectively.  These capacities were typical by 1910 as shown by an N&W drawing in the N&WHS Archives: C10157, TOP CENTER PLATE FOR 40 AND 50 TON FREIGHT CARS AND TENDERS, dated 12/06/1909.]

Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Fri Sep 11 00:13:12 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 0:13:12 -0400
Subject: N&W in 1910--New equipment
In-Reply-To: <8EFD65A23E4F4A77907F3B7CD85822AC@DellVostro>
Message-ID: <20090911041312.ETHVV.407045.root@hrndva-web24-z01>

I wonder what those forty Baldwin freight engines were.  They already had the 50 M-2s and the five Y-1s, and the 15 Z-1s of 1912 were to come from Richmond.

EdK
---- NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 
> Bluefield Daily Telegraph
> February 2, 1910
> 
> FIFTY LOCOMOTIVES AND 2,500 FREIGHT CARS
> ------
> Total Amount of Norfolk and Western Contracts for Rolling Stock Exceeds $3,500,000
> 
>     Roanoke, Va., Feb. 1--The Norfolk and Western Railway Company gave out contracts today for 2,500 cars and fifty locomotives.  The total amounts of the contracts exceeded $3,500,000.
>     Contracts were awarded as follows:
>     American Locomotive Works, Richmond, sixteen passenger engines.
>     Baldwin Locomotive Works, Philadelphia, forty freight engines.
>     American Car and Foundry Company, Huntington, W. Va. 1,500 all steel cars, 50,000 capacity.
>     American Car and Foundry Company, Huntington, W. Va. 500 steel side and underframe box cars, 40,000 pounds capacity.
>     Western Steel Car and Foundry Co. Hegewisch, Ill. 500 all steel, fifty-ton gondolas.
>     These concerns are under contract to begin delivery of these orders June 1, and it is fully expected that the entire combined orders of locomotives and cars will be ready for use by the time the proposed double trackage through the coal fields and through Ohio is completed.
> -------
> [I'll bet the "50,000 capacity" and "40,000 pounds capacity" were actually 50-tons capacity and 40-tons capacity, respectively.  These capacities were typical by 1910 as shown by an N&W drawing in the N&WHS Archives: C10157, TOP CENTER PLATE FOR 40 AND 50 TON FREIGHT CARS AND TENDERS, dated 12/06/1909.]
> 
> Gordon Hamilton


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Fri Sep 11 10:22:04 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:22:04 -0400
Subject: Lettering color on early steam
Message-ID: <4AAA5D0C.7030604@vt.edu>

I have copies of PRR locomotive painting diagrams, and I'm certain that 
road lettered steam in gold leaf until a certain date.

--Rick Morrison

     ----- Original Message -----
     From: NW Mailing List
     To: NW Mailing List
     Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:20 PM
     Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam

     Gary

        "This was not used on locomotives"

     What do you base this statement on? I do not have any first hand 
knowledge about Locomotive lettering with gold leaf. But I do know for fact 
the N&W and C&O used real gold leaf in passenger applications. And would 
think it would be in the realm of possibility that in the day they may have 
use it on passenger locomotives as the drawing suggest.

     Larry

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Fri Sep 11 20:33:28 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:33:28 -0400
Subject: Lettering color on early steam
References: <4AAA5D0C.7030604@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <000301ca3340$a66daed0$6500a8c0@Dad>

I'm sure that the J's were never lettered or striped in gold leaf.  Can't 
say about earlier passenger power.

Sam Putney

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam


>I have copies of PRR locomotive painting diagrams, and I'm certain that 
>road lettered steam in gold leaf until a certain date.
>
> --Rick Morrison
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: NW Mailing List
>     To: NW Mailing List
>     Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:20 PM
>     Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
>
>     Gary
>
>        "This was not used on locomotives"
>
>     What do you base this statement on? I do not have any first hand 
> knowledge about Locomotive lettering with gold leaf. But I do know for 
> fact the N&W and C&O used real gold leaf in passenger applications. And 
> would think it would be in the realm of possibility that in the day they 
> may have use it on passenger locomotives as the drawing suggest.
>
>     Larry
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ 


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Fri Sep 11 21:34:02 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:34:02 -0400
Subject: History Costs
Message-ID: <4AAAFA8A.6080702@vt.edu>

The Section Foreman's house in Abingdon (a going B&B) is now for sale ---- 
and something from the 1850s is not inexpensive. The asking price is 
$550,000. But if anyone wants to be up close to the action this would be ideal.

Mike Pierry, Jr.

[Moderator]
See image at following:
http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=61

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Fri Sep 11 22:43:30 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:43:30 -0400
Subject: N&W in 1910--New equipment
References: <20090911041312.ETHVV.407045.root@hrndva-web24-z01>
Message-ID: <3490B12C0B1B45ACBBA6F03FCCBFE8B7@DellVostro>

Ed,

Fifty M2 4-8-0 locos (1100 - 1149) were delivered by Baldwin in 1910 
beginning in September.  This would be the "FIFTY LOCOMOTIVES" stated in the 
headline.  I don't know why the reporter changed that number to 40 in the 
article.  Also, the article lists 16 passenger locos from American Loco. 
Works, Richmond, which would be the 16 E2's (564 - 579) delivered in 1910 
beginning in February.  Whoever added the headline without these 16 locos 
must have thought that passenger locomotives did not count.

Say tuned for articles on the Class X and Y1 loco also delevered in 1910.

Gordon Hamilton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--New equipment


>I wonder what those forty Baldwin freight engines were.  They already had 
>the 50 M-2s and the five Y-1s, and the 15 Z-1s of 1912 were to come from 
>Richmond.
>
> EdK
> ---- NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>> Bluefield Daily Telegraph
>> February 2, 1910
>>
>> FIFTY LOCOMOTIVES AND 2,500 FREIGHT CARS
>> ------
>> Total Amount of Norfolk and Western Contracts for Rolling Stock Exceeds 
>> $3,500,000
>>
>>     Roanoke, Va., Feb. 1--The Norfolk and Western Railway Company gave 
>> out contracts today for 2,500 cars and fifty locomotives.  The total 
>> amounts of the contracts exceeded $3,500,000.
>>     Contracts were awarded as follows:
>>     American Locomotive Works, Richmond, sixteen passenger engines.
>>     Baldwin Locomotive Works, Philadelphia, forty freight engines.
>>     American Car and Foundry Company, Huntington, W. Va. 1,500 all steel 
>> cars, 50,000 capacity.
>>     American Car and Foundry Company, Huntington, W. Va. 500 steel side 
>> and underframe box cars, 40,000 pounds capacity.
>>     Western Steel Car and Foundry Co. Hegewisch, Ill. 500 all steel, 
>> fifty-ton gondolas.
>>     These concerns are under contract to begin delivery of these orders 
>> June 1, and it is fully expected that the entire combined orders of 
>> locomotives and cars will be ready for use by the time the proposed 
>> double trackage through the coal fields and through Ohio is completed.
>> -------
>> [I'll bet the "50,000 capacity" and "40,000 pounds capacity" were 
>> actually 50-tons capacity and 40-tons capacity, respectively.  These 
>> capacities were typical by 1910 as shown by an N&W drawing in the N&WHS 
>> Archives: C10157, TOP CENTER PLATE FOR 40 AND 50 TON FREIGHT CARS AND 
>> TENDERS, dated 12/06/1909.]
>>
>> Gordon Hamilton
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Fri Sep 11 22:17:01 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:17:01 -0400
Subject: History Costs
In-Reply-To: <4AAAFA8A.6080702@vt.edu>
References: <4AAAFA8A.6080702@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <9d5f4ad00909111917i2b8c1c7bs56b0ac18a6717050@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Mike wrote:

> The Section Foreman's house in Abingdon (a going B&B) is now for sale ----
> and something from the 1850s is not inexpensive. The asking price is
> $550,000. But if anyone wants to be up close to the action this would be
> ideal.
>

The website for the B&B: http://www.1857foremanhouse.com/

Bruce in Blacksburg
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Fri Sep 11 22:45:31 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:45:31 -0400
Subject: N&W in 1910--Big engines
Message-ID: <2C57C35A6FD44296ACEB685C4B30AFAF@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
February 4, 1910

BIG MALLET ENGINES SOON TO BE SEEN HERE
------
Number Ordered by Norfolk and Western for Work Between Bluefield and Flat Top Yards

    The time is not far distant when the Bluefield yard will see Mallet engines daily.  The Norfolk and Western has a number of the engines ordered and delivery is now some months late.  They are expected to arrive during the present year and when they do come some of them will be put to work between Bluefield and Flat Top Yards.  At the present time the local trains pull but twenty-eight cars between those two points on account of the grade but this will all be changed when the big engines get to work and show what modern equipment can do with a train load of cars.
    [The balance of the article quotes a magazine article on Mallet locomotives and is omitted here.]

Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sat Sep 12 07:48:59 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:48:59 -0400
Subject: Lettering color on early steam
References: <mailman.7.1248796807.71201.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org><C6BD0157-B6FC-41F5-949B-7DBFD144750A@oscalemag.com><F96C1E47B459467D9CB9972C1C4C24A5@StudyComputer><2649CFC887C144E29F547CA7A2C98CD2@silver><COL103-W21CB372FAC1271D030F36EAFE90@phx.gbl><DB0BF3202C8943D194F50468FAC20674@071927350f>
	<1041D15F5710485B8F7D56B33F733D98@StudyComputer>
Message-ID: <73D577B859584CF1B8447FF074C6AD1B@StudyComputer>

Please reference the Arrow, Jan-Mar 2007 (volume 23, number 1) Pg 17. Charlie Schlotthober's article should end this debate. He used company inter-office letters. The collection of letters is at the Archives should anyone want or need more information. Here are quotes from the article, as excerpted from a letter from then General Supt. R. G. Henley in reply to Mr. R. H. Smith who was VP- General Manager  and later became President of the company.


"Prior to 1903 we used gold leaf for stenciling and stripping our locomotive cabs and tenders." He then added "I'm told by some of the older employees, although we have nothing in the record, that during that year (1903) it was decided on account of the expense of the gold leaf, to use gold enamel on the freight locomotives and silver leaf on the passenger locomotives. That practice has been followed since that time, except aluminum paint has been substituted for the silver leaf."

Check the link below and you  will see that the price of 22.5 caret gold leaf in a 3.25 inch by 3.25 inch square or 10.5 sq. in.) is about $1.30. Not cheap but not all that bad either. In any case, gold and silver leaf was used and used rather extensively on the N&W. I would imagine this was widely practiced but that would be speculation. 

http://www.lagoldleaf.com/product_info.php?products_id=44



Larry Evans
Kenova,WV
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: NW Mailing List 
  Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:20 PM
  Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam


  Gary

     " This was not used on locomotives" 

  What do you base this statement on? I do not have any first hand knowledge about Locomotive lettering with gold leaf.
  But I do know for fact the N&W and C&O used real gold leaf in passenger applications. And would think it would
  be in the realm of possibility that in the day they may have use it on passenger locomotives as the drawing suggest.

  Larry



  ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: NW Mailing List 
    To: 'NW Mailing List' 
    Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 5:50 PM
    Subject: RE: Lettering color on early steam


    Strictly speaking gold leaf is gold beaten extensively between two sheets of leather so that it forms an extremely thin sheet, about 0.001" thick and thinner. Gold is a very soft, plastic metal in pure form.  This thin sheet would be cut up adhesively applied to jewelry and furniture.  This technology goes back centuries.  This was not used on locomotives.  Too expensive.

     

    Gold leaf paint is paint that has actual 'ground-up' powder of actual gold metal in it as the pigment.  Thus, it is costly.

     

    "Gold" paint today has some other ground up mineral as the powder that mimics the color and reflectivity of gold (Au) but doesn't cost that much.  Iron Pyrite (all that glitters is not gold) used to be part of the pigment but that too became too costly.

     

    DULUX gold paint is a yellow pigmented paint that is not based on a metallic pigment.  But, it looks gold-like.  Cheaper.

     

    Gary Rolih

    Cincinnati

     

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
    Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:00 PM
    To: Norfolk Western Mailing List
    Subject: RE: Lettering color on early steam

     

    In generic terms, what is gold leaf comprised of? and how is it applied to the prototypes?
     
    Thanks,
    Dave Willis
    (blt 1962, c/n 4)
     
    > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
    > Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
    > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 06:20:27 -0400
    > From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
    > 
    > It appears to me, that in VERY early photos of N&W locomotives (perhaps 
    > freight only) that the lettering is white rather than gold, for example the 
    > picture of the first loco produced by Roanoke. Anyone else have data?
    > Jim Cochran
    > dcochran116 at roadrunner.com
    > 
    > ----- Original Message ----- 
    > From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
    > To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
    > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:20 PM
    > Subject: Re: Lettering color on early steam
    > 
    > 
    > > Joe
    > >
    > > I have drawing F1154 Oct 24 1884 shows gold leaf on passenger tenders 
    > > and gold paint on
    > > fright locomotive tenders
    > >
    > > Larry Evans
    > > Kenova, WV
    > >
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message ----- 
    > > From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
    > > To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
    > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:04 PM
    > > Subject: Lettering color on early steam
    > >
    > >
    > >> Gentlemen,
    > >> I've been asked by a model company to supply info about the lettering on 
    > >> early N&W steam. My information is that the lettering color on both 
    > >> passenger and freight pre-1900 steam was gold leaf. Can anyone confirm 
    > >> or deny that?
    > >> Thanks
    > >> Joe Giannovario
    > >> O Scale Trains Magazine
    > >> ________________________________________
    > >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
    > >> To change your subscription go to
    > >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
    > >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
    > >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sat Sep 12 20:21:51 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:21:51 -0400
Subject: Signal Head (NW Modeling List)
Message-ID: <4AAC3B1F.1080300@vt.edu>

My memory is a little foggy.  I grew up in Portsmouth, Ohio and mad many 
trips up and down US 23 to Columbus.  I was born in the late 50's and don't 
remember steam but I do remember it was a treat to me seeing a train along 
23 as the tracks ran almost right beside it in a lot of places.  I was also 
able to check out the signals and through my own deductions during the 
years (I lived in the area up until 1983).  I can't remember if the lights 
were approach lit or not.  But they were yellow red or green position light 
signals.  They always glowed just one color,  I usually got my hopes up if 
I saw a yellow or a red going the same direction I was going as I had the 
hope of catching a train.  Sometimes when I was a passenger I would turn 
around and check the signal going in the opposite direction, hoping for a 
green.  Sometimes I would get lucky, other times not.

A.J. Gemperline

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sat Sep 12 21:06:48 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:06:48 -0400
Subject: N&W in 1910--Contracts
Message-ID: <79DCA8F7675F4A1BB74BA6504B0CE4E8@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
February 5, 1910

CONTRACTS LET BY NORFOLK AND WESTERN
------
Bids Accepted on Thirty Miles of Track and Several Tunnels
------
MUCH OF WORK TO BE DONE IN THIS SECTION
------
Three and Half Miles East of Devon, Three and Fifth West of Wharnecliffe and Three Miles East of Huger Including Tunnels
------
    BRANCH LINES ON INDIAN CREEK NEAR CEDAR BLUFF

    Roanoke, Va., Feb. 4 (Special)--The Norfolk and Western Railway Company today awarded contracts for various construction work on the western division [Western General Division] as follows:
    Strum & Adams, Columbus, Ohio, six miles of track between Renick and Delano, Ohio.
    The E. G. Nare Bros. Co., Portsmouth, Ohio, seven miles of double track east of Piketon, Ohio.
    The Ryan Company, Lexington, N. C., eleven miles of double track in Ohio, west of Davies.
    Moorman Bros. Co., Lynchburg, three and one half miles of double track east of Devon, W. Va.
    Carpenter & Boxley, Roanoke, three and one-fifth miles of double track west of Wharncliffe, W. Va.
    Lock Construction Company, Roanoke, three miles of double track west of Wyoming, W. Va.
    J. H. Sherpell & Sons, Louisville, Ky., three miles of double track, including tunnels, east of Huger, W. Va.
    D. W. Flickwir, Roanoke, three miles of Branch line work on Indian Creek, above Cedar Bluff, including tunnel.
------
[Some proper names were blurred on the microfilm.  The best interpretations are shown.]

Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Sep 13 08:44:44 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 08:44:44 -0400
Subject: "Taking 20 with the Brethren"
Message-ID: <540e48700909130544m6a1d0e59n807c7c85b0366820@mail.gmail.com>

Skip:

This your BEST report of "Taking Twenty with the Brethren yet." Keep
them tales a rollin' bruddah! Right on!

 ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:53:47 -0400
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: "Taking Twenty" with the Virginian Brethren
> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <4AA8DABB.8090609 at vt.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Last night I had the pleasure of "Takin' Twenty" with 8 of the Brethren and
> Friends of the Virginian Railway. Most of the discussion concerned
> tomorrow's dedication ceremony of our new flag pole at the Virginian
> Station at 11 AM. Since Landon Gregory is representing the Brethren, and
> making "a few remarks", they asked me to seat him between Mayor Bowers of
> Roanoke and State Senator Edwards. Ruf said that this will make him "sort
> of a politician".
>
> As we left the Restaurant last week, Landon Gregory overheard a
> conversation, while in the cashier's line, about the Shenandoah Division
> and stopped to talk to three gentlemen. Turns out the elderly gentlemen was
> Claude Woolfolk, who started out on the Virginian in the MW gang, Norfolk
> Division. Mr. Woolfolk was hard of hearing so his son did most of the
> talking for him. Seems that Mr. Woolfolk's father, when he found out he had
> gotten a job on the VGN, gave him a $40 mule. Mr. Woolfolk used the mule to
> clean out ditches along the right of way and was paid 47 cents an hour for
> himself and 3 cents an hour for the mule. He went on to be an N&W MW
> supervisor after the merger in the Engineering Department, Shenandoah
> Division. As the conversation continued, Mr. Woolfolk asked Landon "Do you
> know Landon Gregory?" Seems that they had communicated when Landon was an
> operator and dispatcher but had never met face to face until last week!
>
> I showed the Brethren photos taken of them by Doug and Marcelle Bess who
> visited us last week from Lithonia, Georgia. Also passed around was a photo
> I got off railpictures of a BNSF work train taken last month with a
> caboose, crane, flat and 10 hoppers pulled by a large high rail truck at
> Grand Forks, ND. To see this photo go to:
> http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=296580
>
> The DVDs included one showing the actual setting of our new 30' flag pole
> into its base and the first "test flag" raised on it. Also one DVD showed a
> very picturesque passing of a "fast flying" coal train at Kumis.
>
> Also passed around were two of the Virginian Railway Standard Drawings
> books, available at the N&W (and VGN) Historical Society. They were Book
> "B" Masonry, and Book "C" Trestles.
>
> Rufus Wingfield and Raymond East remembered that right after the merger in
> '59, a drilling was done across and under South Yard for fiber optic cable
> by N&W.
>
> Frank Breedlove, VGN Brakeman and Conductor, also played third base for the
> Virginian Baseball Team. Once after a game with a team that had a very
> fast, but wild, pitcher, Frank was asked if he got any hits. He answered
> "yes, one in the gut, one in the butt and one in the back". Most agree that
> the best VGN player was Elmer Gene "Bunk" Gibson. Gibson once inquired
> about an ad in the Roanoke paper for ballplayers for the Roanoke Red Sox of
> the Pro Piedmont League. He tried out and they asked him to play the next
> day in a game at Maher Field, just across Naval Reserve Avenue from the
> Virginian Yard. "Bunk" who worked in the yard, marked off sick and went to
> the afternoon game. When he hit a triple, the PA blasted out his name and
> the yardmaster said "here I am paying a brakeman time and a half and 'Bunk'
> is playing ball". Frank said that "Bunk" was also an avid deer and turkey
> hunter and consider himself a professional sportsman. Once he and Frank
> were on their way hunting to Watts Creek in "Bunk's" 1961 American Rambler.
> When they arrived, "Bunk" was anxious and loaded his Model 12 Winchester in
> the Rambler and accidentally shot out the back window. Frank said that he
> took the car to the deer checking station and told the warden that "he
> wanted to check in a 2 point Rambler".
>
> Time to pull the pin on this one!
>
> Departing Now from V248,
>
> Skip Salmon
>
> =============
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
> End of NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 47, Issue 17
> ***********************************************
>

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Sep 13 22:13:30 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:13:30 -0400
Subject: Virginian in 1910--Bluefield
Message-ID: <1D7977C3E0DB4DDF95D83E7101267195@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
February 5, 1910

HOW THE VIRGINIAN CAN GET INTO BLUEFIELD
------
Route Through Bland Would Give Line to Radford Twenty Miles Shorter Than N. & W.

    One of the proposed routes which will bring the Virginian Railway to Bluefield was the subject of a great deal of discussion at Welch the other day, and a gentleman who claimed that he knew of a route which had been surveyed by engineers suggested a line that may be built.  By following the contours on a geological map it can be seen that the route is a feasible one and one that will require but one tunnel between Bluefield and a connection with the Virginian Railway near Radford.
    The proposed route leaving South Bluefield would go to Davidson Gap, about four miles from the southern terminus of Bland Street, and would, after passing through Bethel, or Cross Roads, make a tunnel through the East River mountain, having followed the county road to that point, would go up Dry Fork and then pass through Rocky Gap between Rich Mountain and Wolf Creek or Buckhorn mountain.  From there it would go along Wilderness Creek to Compton's Gap and by following the north fork of Kimberling Creek to Kimberling Creek and follow Walker Creek to where it joins with Little Walker Creek and then would pass through the gap known as Shannon's Gap, which would take it through the Walker Mountain and Little Walker mountain and Cloyd's mountain, and from that point on to Dry Gap, near Radford, the road would have easy sailing, crossing Back Creek and Neck Creek and going into Montgomery county where it would join up with the Virginian and from there it would have the main line to any point.  This route would be from fifteen to twenty miles shorter than the Norfolk and Western route to Radford.
    This route would also allow the Virginian to follow the Cedar Fork from Rocky Gap to the south fork of Clinch river, where it would reach the Norfolk and Western about three miles below Five Oaks, Va., thereby giving the road a route into the coal lands of Virginia.  It would also be in shape to build along Wolf's Creek through Hicksville, Va., in to the Rich mountain territory, via Crabtree Gap and Little Creek.  From Hicksville the road could go along Hunting Camp Creek into the Round mountain coal and iron territory and following the creek could also get into Brushy Mountain.  An almost impregnable barrier in the form of mountains seems to stand in the way of getting into Burks's Garden, but it is by no means improbable, as a route could be secured by either the Wolf Creek and Little Creek route or the Hunting Camp route.  The road could also get into Smythe county, and while that is a very remote possibility at present there is no reason why it could not be done.
    The people of the entire section are taking a great deal of interest in the Virginian Railway, and any plan which would bring it to Bluefield and help the town by bringing new people and new business interests to the city would be greatly appreciated by the people in all walks of life.
    The proposed route would open a large undeveloped timber and mineral territory which at the present time is not touched by a railroad.  It is a well known fact that there are large tracts of timber and many deposits of coal and iron, as well as other minerals in the territory which can be reached by such a route and it is only lying there to be awakened by the civilizing touch of the railroads of the country, which are the empire builders.  These are a number of fine tracts of agricultural lands which are watered by some very good rivers and these too would be brought in touch with the outside world as they have never been able to do before.
------
[Could you follow along with  all of the streams, mountains and  gaps named?]

Gordon Hamilton
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