From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 19 00:08:58 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:08:58 -0400 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mail robbery -- great names and movies -- PLUSDeadBodies on the N&W Main Line In MAC Dowell County, WV!! References: <3AD71457CF7240959B74C9B045F4D88B@DellVostro><001401ca4dbb$735824e0$6500a8c0@Dad> <8CC1E1C3CAD79DB-57C8-1BD98@webmail-d007.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000d01ca5071$e5133c10$6500a8c0@Dad> Yeah, Harry. My roommate at Tech brought something back to school after a Friday night at Cinder Bottom. And he said it was most uncomfortable. I guess his hostess was overdue for her checkup! Sam ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 11:10 AM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mail robbery -- great names and movies -- PLUSDeadBodies on the N&W Main Line In MAC Dowell County, WV!! heard the body count would go after pay day at the mines when the poor miners would go in town get drunk and get robbed. Kind of like the mugging gangs that preyed on tipsy sailors in port cities. Sam -- The poor man was probably the bad loser of a poker game -- Drunk ? Poker games ? How about Keystone's main attraction, Cinder Bottom ? One N&W employee who owned a service station in Keystone once told me that those providing service were just like locomotives -- the West Virginia Health Department required that they be inspected (at Welch) every 90 days. (Actually a locomotive can go 93 days between federally-mandated inspecions). Harry Bundy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 19 00:06:01 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:06:01 -0500 Subject: J #604/611 Data In-Reply-To: References: <4AB56A09.8040704@vt.edu><001d01ca399e$487c6b90$d97542b0$@net><3A24087D4D954080986F61541B0672DF@Jimmy><001b01ca3ad6$a3e2c2c0$eba84840$@net> <002201ca4dbb$b6c0c430$6500a8c0@Dad> Message-ID: <002a01ca5071$789aae10$69d00a30$@net> Urban legend! There are differences between the tenders of the 610 and 611. 611 is the original 611. Jim Nichols From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 4:50 PM To: NW Mailing List Subject: Re: J #604/611 Data I had the pleasure a few years ago of attending an environmental course with a member of the Norfolk Southern environmental department. I struck up a conversation with him and during the course of that conversation he said that the 611 was really the 610. Some time prior to or at the time of the decision to preserve a J-class, a high ranking Norfolk & Western executive ordered the number change. If my acquaintance gave a name of the executive I cannot recall it. Does anyone have more details about this or is this just an "urban legend" associated with 611? Rick Huddle N&WHS #3689 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 19 00:17:57 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:17:57 -0400 Subject: J #604/611 Data References: <4AB56A09.8040704@vt.edu><001d01ca399e$487c6b90$d97542b0$@net><3A24087D4D954080986F61541B0672DF@Jimmy><001b01ca3ad6$a3e2c2c0$eba84840$@net><002201ca4dbb$b6c0c430$6500a8c0@Dad> Message-ID: <001d01ca5073$23478030$6500a8c0@Dad> There are so many things they'd have to do to pull that off, it just wouldn't be worth it. You'd have to start by changing out the tender, then start filing off numbers on parts, etc. Remember, there were several significant changes between the 611-613 subclass and the previous class. And some were pretty visible. Reminds me of the story I was told by a retired railroader (or so he claimed to be) when I was riding the last Pocahontas between Welch and Crewe. He assured me that most of N&W's modern steamers (A's, J's and Y6's) hadn't really been scrapped. On the orders of the defense department they had been stored serviceable in a hollowed out mountain somewhere in West Virginia. So, I guess like that moon landing was faked on a Hollywood backlot, all those photos of locos in various states of disassembly were faked with cardboard cutouts. Sam Putney ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 5:50 PM Subject: Re: J #604/611 Data I had the pleasure a few years ago of attending an environmental course with a member of the Norfolk Southern environmental department. I struck up a conversation with him and during the course of that conversation he said that the 611 was really the 610. Some time prior to or at the time of the decision to preserve a J-class, a high ranking Norfolk & Western executive ordered the number change. If my acquaintance gave a name of the executive I cannot recall it. Does anyone have more details about this or is this just an "urban legend" associated with 611? Rick Huddle N&WHS #3689 ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:19 PM Subject: Re: J #604/611 Data I've always heard that the 611 was preserved because it was the last J remaining and O. Winston Link made a personal appeal to Stuart Saunders to save it. I'm sure the Link Museum can provide more definitive information. Sam Putney ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:16 PM Subject: RE: J #604/611 Data I will provide my private email address so those who wish to reply to this message can reply to me privately, especially those who would like to submit information for my 611 book. Lois J. Ponton Friends of the 611 ljp611 at ntelos.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Subject: RE: J #604/611 Data Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:56:52 +0000 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org First, I have a interesting question: Why was 604 the first J to go to scrap? Second, in my completion of the book Midnight on the Pocahontas (about 611's 1956 wreck) I have to cover why the 611 was preserved. I would like this to be a private conversation, but I would like to speak with former N&W employees and the like who have information on why the 611 is still with us today. The subject can also be discussed on the board at the moderator's wish. Lois J. Ponton Friends of the 611 > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org > Subject: Re: J #604 builders plate > Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:33:39 -0400 > From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org > > Jimmy > K2 Would have had the regular Alco Brooks rectangle plate, K2a Would > have a regular 9 1/4 Baldwin > round plate. Some that I have seen were chromed but not all of them may have > worn off like most of the > Js did. > > Larry Evans > Kenova,WV > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "NW Mailing List" > To: "NW Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:10 PM > Subject: RE: J #604 builders plate > > > Any particular reason they moved them? > > Mike Weeks > Greenville NC -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. Check it out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 19 04:29:20 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:29:20 +0000 Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 48, Issue 23 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Al, > I seem to have confused you. I am comparing a proven technology that was > available in 1898 (but not made universal) to the new braking system now > being used by Norfolk Southern on train 722. > > Mike It was not proven by any stretch of the imagination (todays ECP brakes can't even be called proven technology))... just possible. As for availability it would be interesting to see if any of the manufacturers actually catalogged such a system back in the day. Robb Fisher RFDI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 19 10:44:52 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 10:44:52 -0400 Subject: Early Prediction Message-ID: <4ADC7B64.2060906@vt.edu> I mentioned my latest read, Cyclopedia of Engineering Vol.III and have just finished it. The final two pages in the section, Self-Contained Railway Cars, include a prophecy of where we are 100 years later. " It is according to human nature, and not unreasonable, for steam railroad men, ... to be disposed to look down on and take a disparaging view of the internal-combustion engine. Many of these, and engineers in general, having closely studied the steam engine, have an inherent prejudice in its favor and regard the internal-combustion engine as an interloper. and, in conclusion, the prophetic words come off the now yellowing pages as clear as a locomotive bell, " ... small engines... when constructed on this principle and coupled together would give any desired power for heavy trunk-line service." (See attached scan.) For those who enjoy steam (count me as one) we can only marvel that the folks in Roanoke kept right on improving steam locomotives for another 50 years regardless. Mike Pierry, Jr. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: InternalClipping.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 84970 bytes Desc: not available Url : From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 19 13:49:32 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:49:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: J #604/611 Data Message-ID: <370434191.976317.1255974572077.JavaMail.root@vms182.mailsrvcs.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 19 17:13:33 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:13:33 -0400 Subject: J #604/611 Data In-Reply-To: <370434191.976317.1255974572077.JavaMail.root@vms182.mailsrvcs.net> References: <370434191.976317.1255974572077.JavaMail.root@vms182.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <8CC1F182607D114-2B2C-200C0@webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Mon, Oct 19, 2009 1:49 pm Subject: Re: Re: J #604/611 Data When I lived out West, I heard about 10 new locomotives being buried in a fake tunnel in the Rockies. Different area same story, now did you hear the one about....? Regards, There IS a C&O 4-4-0 buried in a tunnel near Main Street Station, Richmond. The incident happened around 1926. Tunnel was being maintained when the marl collapsed burying engine AND crew. Harry Bundy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 19 16:12:21 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:12:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: J #604/611 Data Message-ID: <827750.1255983141188.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Oct 20 09:52:08 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:52:08 -0400 Subject: N&W and VGN Territory in 1910--Proposed trolley and railroad lines Message-ID: <0960EA841EF74D3394F6F2EB46E58079@DellVostro> Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 5, 1910 LONDON BANKS HAVE MONEY TO SPEND ------ $2,500,000 to $5,000,000 Ready to Put Into Any Proposition That Will Pay ------ INTEREST IN PROPOSED TROLLEY LINE REVIVED ------ Forty Mile System Connecting All Coalfield Towns and Extending to This City and Princeton Might Prove Attractive ------ RAILROAD TO HINTON VIA PRINCETON ALSO SUGGESTED ------ Grimsley & Company have received a letter from a large London, England, firm in which that concern asks for openings in this section which would net it a return on an investment of from $2,500,000 to $5,000,000 which they are willing to put into some railroad proposition. The concern claims to have a capital of one million dollars. R. C. Grimsley said yesterday that his firm will give a prize of $250 to any one who will map out a line which would interest the concern and which would be acceptable to them. Such a proposition again revives the proposed trolley line which was spoken of in these columns over a year ago. It was proposed to build a line from Bluefield to Welch which would strike all the coal field towns and which should pay a large return on the original investment. The proposed line would be in the neighborhood of forty miles and according to a prominent financier of this section it would take about two millions of dollars to construct it and put it in shape to carry passengers. Such a [trolley] road would be convenient to nearly every coal mine in the Pocahontas and Welch sections as well as to the works on the Tug Fork which embrace all of the United States Coal and Coke Company plants. The only part of the line which would be without immediate return would be the part between this city and Pocahontas. There is a stretch about twelve miles which might not pay on the start but the traffic which it would take to and from this city would more than pay, although the local traffic along the line between these points would be light. After leaving Pocahontas the road would have towns of several hundred people every few miles and there is no reason why it should not be a big paying investment. In fact, all are agreed that such is the case and the investors of this section would largely subscribe to such a line, as it would be of great assistance to everyone along the route. Such a road would go from the country seat of Mercer county to the county seat of McDowell county passing through the most populous sections of both counties. It would also pass through a part of Virginia and would tap Pocahontas, which is one of the best small towns in the southwestern part of Virginia. It would also connect with the towns located in the Crane Creek and Widemouth branches, bringing Bramwell and some of the mining towns into close connection with the mines of all the sections in the field. Another proposition which the company might take up would be to build a steam railroad to Princeton where it would strike the Brush Creek, which it could follow to the Bluestone and along this river to New River and from there into Hinton. Such a line would tap the Norfolk and Western, the Virginian and the Chesapeake and Ohio railroads. It would be a great connecting link and in addition to passing through some excellent timber land would also pass through a great natural salt field. A branch line could be built up Camp Creek which would tap the coalfields in the Great Flat Top Mountain. Such a road could develop by education of the shippers a great freight traffic as well as a very good passenger service. It would strike Bluefield, Princeton and Hinton, three division points on three great coal roads. Hinton as division point on the Chesapeake and Ohio has freight which it could send to Princeton and vice versa, as Princeton is the main point of the Virginian. Princeton is the seat of Mercer county, in which Bluefield is located, and there is all kinds of business waiting for development in which both of these towns are interested. Such a road would open Mercer county and join its two railroads. This county is bound to be the greatest county in the state as far as business, outside of coal mining, in concerned. It has large supplies of the best coal in the world, however, as well as salt, timber and iron. It also has some water power and is close to the New River which has as good water power as can be found in the state. If the trolley proposition should prove feasible it would be possible to locate a central power plant at some point on the New River or below Bluefield. Three or four sub-stations could be erected throughout the field at which electricity could be relayed from the main station so that the plant could be operated at a minimum cost. The company could also sell a great deal of electricity along its line, as all of the coal companies are large users. The letter addressed to Grimsley & Company evidently shows that the London bankers have money to invest in this section and if they are looking for a railroad proposition and really have $5,000,000 to invest, Bluefielders should go after it tooth and toe nail. The company wants to finance the proposition if it is feasible and will, according to its letter consider a proposition which will stand investigation and which is strictly first-class. If the chamber of commerce has a committee which can find something first-class of this company to invest its $5,000,000 it is time to get busy. The correspondence in the matter can be found at the offices of Grimsley & Company. ----- [Although it is intriguing to imagine a trolley line serving the coalfield and a steam road Bluefield to Princeton to Hinton, it is likely that neither would have lasted very long.] Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Oct 20 15:38:24 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:38:24 -0400 Subject: Church Hill Tunnel October 1925 Message-ID: <540e48700910201238t251fc93bra32bf0618bcee894@mail.gmail.com> Harry and all: The Church Hill Tunnel collapse of October 1925 has been well documented over the years by Richmond from time to time as well as the C&O HS with several nice articles in their monthly magazine. The basic story goes like this: It was built in 1873 or so with a lot of trouble due to the soil problems but survived in regular use until it was put on standby in 1901 when the new line was built. It stayed that way, technically available but seldom used except apparently for one period around 1912 or so. By 1915 it was completely downgraded and while not abandoned was apparently never used until with an increase of traffic in the mid-1920's, the C&O decided to reopen it. Their idea was to enlarge it by lowering the grade, but their plan was flawed and the flaw would rear its head on I think it was October 2nd, 1925 but I am going from memory on the date but the month and year I am pretty sure of. In trying to lower the track level, they removed the under-pinning of the roof and on that fateful day, with dozens (maybe even hundreds?) of people digging away, a work train from the east end, led by C&O #231 I think, a 4-4-0 came in with a dozen or so flatcars trailing, to haul out whatever muck had been dug up. When the work train got within 100 yards or so of the west entrance, this is the entrance easily and still quite visible in Shockoe Bottom even today, the roof collapsed, some 100-200 yards of it killing a number of people instantly. That west entrance was closed off immediately for escape and the survivors got out by scrambling the nearly 3/4 of a mile to the east entrance, from where the work train had just come. Over the next 9 days, further settlements occurred (read this as collapses) in the tunnel, and finally 3 shafts were dug from above. One of those shafts finally reached to near the locomotive and the rescuers were able to remove the body of engineer who was pinned in the cab by escaping steam and everything else. The fireman had escaped but died a day later from being scalded. It was never known or admited how many actually were killed but the C&O finally gave in to the inevitable, that the tunnel was not worth repairing. The engine could have been removed, but the cost there too was in excess of what it would have been worth to salvage back then. It was well known then by knowledgeable authorities on the matter, exactly where the engine is located underground. Afterwards, the C&O pumped/stuffed sand into the tunnel as much and as far in as they could from the east end, but obviously there were sections they couldn't and wouldn't get close enough to complete the job. Over the years, along the line of the tunnel, there have been periodic cave ins, reminding people what lies beneath their feet under Church Hill. The east end continued as part of a switching yard for Southern until about 20 years ago and then the track connection was removed. About 10 years ago, someone found that a hole had been broken in the tunnel seal at the east/Chimborazo end and a couple of knowledgeable cavers went in, telling virtually no one including the RR until their excursion was complete. They took photos and estimated they got 200 yards or so in before they reached an unstable area of collapse and returned from where they came. The sand had settled over the years and there were places they could stand upright and others where they could only crawl. This was covered in the Richmond Times-Dispatch. After their escapade they then told the CSX authorities who quickly re-sealed the hole and put a fence in to keep the curious and foolish away from harm. Water seeps from the seal at the Shockoe end and is clearly visible even today. This end is not more than a few blocks from Main Street station. A few years ago, some adventurous souls decided to drill into the tunnel from above in hopes of finding the engine in pristine condition and then clear away the rubble and rescue this artifact. It turned out, not surprisingly that all they found was mud and water and then the city found they hadn't obtained the necessary permits to perform these deeds, so the adventure stopped. This tale of the lost engine is well-known and unlike so many others is not a fairy tale. There are so many "Flying Dutchmen" of the rails from tales of long-gone hoggers and gandy-dancers and the like to fill a number of volumes ... and they have. However this one is one of the true ones. You want to rescue the engine? Get about $5 million and the necessary permits to essentially daylight the first 100-150 yards of said tunnel and you too can have an artifact -- or whatever rust is left of it after its 84-year entombment underground, buried for seeming all-time. Where are the N&W's "Flying Dutchmen" stories but I am sure there are a few? Bob Cohen There IS a C&O 4-4-0 buried in a tunnel near Main Street Station, Richmond. The incident happened around 1926.?Tunnel was being maintained when the marl collapsed burying engine AND crew. Harry Bundy From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Oct 21 17:03:30 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:03:30 -0700 Subject: CH 12 A covered hoppers Message-ID: <20091021210342229.BEPD15360@hrndva-omta03.mail.rr.com> Hi Listers, Anybody know when the CH 12 A covered hoppers were built? These are the later ones then the cars of the CH 12 class built in 1961. Thanks in advance, John Hecker -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Oct 21 19:55:20 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:55:20 -0400 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mail service Message-ID: <27E7C437649745D399C3F8FA16FB2802@DellVostro> Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 7, 1910 NEW MAIL SERVICE ------ Inaugurated on Tug Fork Branch of Norfolk and Western The Norfolk and Western has inaugurated a new mail service on the Tug Fork branch. Two mails a day now go to Anawalt and this service is greatly appreciated. The people along the Anawalt section now want an opportunity to get the train to lay over at Pageton or Anawalt at night instead of at Gary as they figure in this way they will be able to go to Welch or some other point and return the same day. An effort will also be made to get a local freight service on the line. There are eighteen or twenty mines on the Tug Fork branch and the coal companies along the line feel that enough business goes to and from these operations to warrant a local freight. It is likely that a petition will be prepared asking for such an extension of the local freight service. ------ [If there were no local freight service on Tug Fork branch how did these eighteen or so mines get the material for the tipples and mine material such as rails, cars, etc? As far as that goes how did any mines get started before the railroad reached the mine location?] Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 22 00:13:14 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:13:14 -0500 Subject: CH 12 A covered hoppers In-Reply-To: <20091021210342229.BEPD15360@hrndva-omta03.mail.rr.com> References: <20091021210342229.BEPD15360@hrndva-omta03.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <001b01ca52cd$fa1f9eb0$ee5edc10$@net> 1965 Jim Nichols From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:04 PM To: NWHS Subject: CH 12 A covered hoppers Hi Listers, Anybody know when the CH 12 A covered hoppers were built? These are the later ones then the cars of the CH 12 class built in 1961. Thanks in advance, John Hecker -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 22 08:08:21 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:08:21 -0400 Subject: "Taking Twenty" with the Virginian Brethren Message-ID: <4AE04B35.8080603@vt.edu> Last night I had the pleasure of "Takin' Twenty" with nine of the Brethren and Friends of the Virginian Railway. We signed a Happy Birthday card for Dewey Houch, former Virginian Railway Surveyor. He began his career in Mullens in 1956 as a chain man and worked from Deepwater to Sewells Point, including measuring water depths for the coal piers. Dewey retired from Norfolk Southern in 1990 as Assistant Manager Materials with 34 years service. He turns 75 this Saturday. We also signed a card for Jeff Sanders, President and long time member of the Roanoke Chapter NRHS. Jeff is one of the Honorary VGN Brethren who is celebrating a birthday and also retiring at the end of this month from NS with over 30 years service. Jeff served in yard and engine service and recently was part of the remote control operation of yard engines in Roanoke. Jeff is also an avid collector of railroad memorabilia, especially of the VGN variety. He actually owns one the "ROANOKE" boards that once was attached to our Virginian Passenger Station in Roanoke and is a true "Friend of the Virginian Railway". I announced to the Brethren that we now have a contractor, Thor General Contractors and Engineers, for Phase I of the Station Renovation. We also got approval yesterday from the Economic Development Office for Brown Fields, for a grant for asbestos and lead paint removal for the project. Looks like we are finally "turning up the wick" on this operation. Passed around was a poster showing that on the same day of our Excursion Train to Bluefield, November 7, The Historical Society of Western Virginia has chosen the VGN Station as one of the three sights for a "Paint for Preservation" special project. "Ten Artists, 1 Day, 3 Icons" will paint the Station "as is" and then auction off the paintings that night. For more information call 540 224 1206 or visit WWW.HISTORY-MUSEUM.ORG The "Business Week" magazine of September 14, 2009 named Norfolk Southern as "One of the 50 Best Places to Launch a Career". Also on Oct 16 "Trains" News Wire was an article "VGN Rwy. Passenger Station to get $2.4 Million Renovation". Passed around were a couple photos showing Niagara Falls actually frozen solid in 1911. This prompted me to ask the Brethren about the recent discussion on this site about snow removal on the VGN. None of the Brethren remembered a flat car with a snow plow being used to push snow. Landon Gregory recalled VGN operator Fletcher Issac "Fig" Gee being snowbound for three days once at Goodview. He was quite resourceful and had extra food and cooking utensils on hand for just an occasion. Ruf Wingfield, VGN Yardmaster, said he thinks the VGN did use Jordon Spreaders for snow removal and "a flat with a snow plow would probably be used on the New River Division up in West Virginia". At the last N&W (and VGN) Historical Society work day, Harold and Chris Hunley showed me a photo they took at "Sleepy Hollow", NS ballast yard near the VGN main at Norwich and close to the Material Yard, of track sections using steel ties. I checked this out and passed around a couple photos of these track plates. While there, I met Steve Smith, who owns a nearby stored N&W caboose and works on the NS Track Research Car, told me that steel ties were already in use on the NS Norfolk Division near 8 1/2 Street at Roanoke Shops. I went there and took a photo of these ties and passed it around also. Somehow the discussion turned to very large men who worked on the VGN. Ruf and Raymond remembered two engineers, Charlie Hammond and D. P. Clark. Both had to actually be removed from engineer service because they had trouble getting through the engine cab door. Raymond said that on their driver's license under the photo, it said: "Continued on back". Time to pull the pin on this one! Departing Now from V248, Skip Salmon ============= From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 22 12:24:18 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:24:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Mail transportation on the N&W Tug Fork Branch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <334348.94936.qm@web30106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:55:20 -0400 From: NW Mailing List Subject: N&W in 1910--Mail service Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 7, 1910 NEW MAIL SERVICE ------ Inaugurated on Tug Fork Branch of Norfolk and Western The Norfolk and Western has inaugurated a new mail service on the Tug Fork branch. Two mails a day now go to Anawalt and this service is greatly appreciated. The people along the Anawalt section now want an opportunity to get the train to lay over at Pageton or Anawalt at night instead of at Gary as they figure in this way they will be able to go to Welch or some other point and return the same day. An effort will also be made to get a local freight service on the line. There are eighteen or twenty mines on the Tug Fork branch and the coal companies along the line feel that enough business goes to and from these operations to warrant a local freight. It is likely that a petition will be prepared asking for such an extension of the local freight service. ------ [If there were no local freight service on Tug Fork branch how did these eighteen or so mines get the material for the tipples and mine material such as rails, cars, etc? As far as that goes how did any mines get started before the railroad reached the mine location?] Gordon Hamilton October 23, 2009 Hello, Gordon: Wasn't "local freight" service primarily for carload and less-than-carload merchanidise freight? My recollection is that "mine runs" on the N&W were not considered local freight. Regarding the mail service, the Railway Mail Service Third Division would have made a determination that mail volume and dispatches warranted mail being handled on a second train. Although there were frequent communications between a railroad's manager of mail (who also usually handled the express company service relationships, too) and the district RMS staff, the added service would have been initiated by the RMS, not the N&W. Good morning, Frank Scheer f_scheer at yahoo.com From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 22 11:26:38 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:26:38 -0400 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mail service References: <27E7C437649745D399C3F8FA16FB2802@DellVostro> Message-ID: <336FA083C10E418C91BCA44991F8988D@DellVostro> As a postscript to the posting below I should have pointed out that the Pageton, WV, mentioned in the article as being on the Tug Fork branch of the N&W was named for William Nelson Page of Virginian Railway fame as stated in the following from Wikipedia: Pageton was named for William Nelson Page (1854-1932) a civil engineer and industrialist who lived in Ansted, where he managed many iron, coal, and railroad enterprises. William Page was the first president of The Virginian Railway Company (now a part of Norfolk Southern). William N. Page was a principal of the Page Coal and Coke Company, a coal and coking company with another operation in Page in Fayette County. He established the mining operation tipple and coking ovens at Pageton around 1907. The colliery in Page, West Virginia was the Loup Creek Colliery Company and was a completely separate entity. Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: 3N&W Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:55 PM Subject: N&W in 1910--Mail service Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 7, 1910 NEW MAIL SERVICE ------ Inaugurated on Tug Fork Branch of Norfolk and Western The Norfolk and Western has inaugurated a new mail service on the Tug Fork branch. Two mails a day now go to Anawalt and this service is greatly appreciated. The people along the Anawalt section now want an opportunity to get the train to lay over at Pageton or Anawalt at night instead of at Gary as they figure in this way they will be able to go to Welch or some other point and return the same day. An effort will also be made to get a local freight service on the line. There are eighteen or twenty mines on the Tug Fork branch and the coal companies along the line feel that enough business goes to and from these operations to warrant a local freight. It is likely that a petition will be prepared asking for such an extension of the local freight service. ------ [If there were no local freight service on Tug Fork branch how did these eighteen or so mines get the material for the tipples and mine material such as rails, cars, etc? As far as that goes how did any mines get started before the railroad reached the mine location?] Gordon Hamilton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.26/2451 - Release Date: 10/22/09 08:51:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 23 01:34:36 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Boyce grade crossing protection Message-ID: <344457.20167.qm@web30105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> East Main Street Grade Crossing Protection - Boyce, Virginia Once the station was constructed, the Town of Boyce turned to other concerns such as installing street lighting and sidewalks. It also considered public safety at the N&W grade crossing with the Winchester and Berry Ferry's Ferry Turnpike. Vehicular traffic was growing on what would eventually be designated as U.S. Highway 50 through town, now designated as County Route 723, East Main Street. This was developing as a major thoroughfare between Winchester and points west, with towns and cities to the east such as Middleburg and Arlington. The first entry from town council meeting minutes was on August 21, 1916 [third Monday] at pages 269-270. The following letter from the State Corporation Commission was read: Richmond August 10th, 1916,~~~ Hon. Wm. M. Gaunt, Mayor, The Town of Boyce Boyce, Virginia. Dear Sir -- Replying to your letter of the 2nd instant relative to crossing bells -- located on the tracks of the Norfolk & Western Railway Company in the Town of Boyce-- I beg to call your attention to paragraph 6/, Section 1294d, Pollard's Code, which provides that the Council of any City or incorporated Town can require a railway Company to provide gates or keep a watchman at any point within the corporate limits of such city or town where a highway or street is crossed by a railroad, whenever in its opinion the public interest demands such protection. In view of this law it would not appear that further correspondence of the part of this Commission is necessary. However, it you desire that the Commission should take any further steps I would suggest that you file a formal petition under the Commission's Rules of Practice and Procedure (copy of which is herewith enclosed)-- when a date will be fixed and the matter heard before the whole Commission in its Court Room in the City of Richmond. Yours Truly, (Signed) Wm. F. Rhea Commissioner The Mayor wrote to Mr. J. D. Hester, Superintendent, Shenandoah Division, to substitute a crossing watchman for the bell. Apparently, the town also petitioned the State Corporation Commission, but on September 17, 1917 [third Monday] at page 309, this was referred back to the town to inquire what they wanted to substitute for the bell. This was clarified by a vote on November 6, 1917 [first Monday] at page 313: Upon the Petitioner of Wm. M. Gaunt and others-- The Petition of Wm. M. Gaunt and others asking the Removal of the Raiway Electric Bell at the Crossing of The Winchester & Berry's Ferry Turnpike by the Norfolk & Western Railway in the Town of Boyce, and that Gates be erected and maintained in lieu thereof by said Railway. Having been maturely considered by the Council; and the Council of The Town of Boyce, being of the opinion that the public interest requires the removal of said Bell and that a Gate be erected and maintained at said Crossing by the Norfolk & Western Railway and a man kept in charge of the same. It is therefore adjudged, ordained and enacted that written notice be given Mr. L. E. Johnson, President of said Railway by mailing him a copy of the Ordinance certified by the Recorder under the Seal of the Town requesting said Railway to remove said Bell and to erect and maintain at said Crossing from and after the 1st day of January 1918 the style of Gate said President shall prefer and to keep a man in charge thereof. Ayes -- Martin, Wyndham, Van Deventer --3-- Noes-- Dunlap --1-- It's noteworthy that Town Concil member Dunlap was the N&W agent at Boyce station. Not surprisingly, he voted against the proposal. A similar follow-up resolution was passed on January 21, 1918 [third Monday], described at Town Council pages 318-319: The Petition of Wm. M. Gaunt and others asking the removal of the Railway Electric Bell at the crossing of the Winchester & Berry's Ferry Turnpike by the Norfolk & Western Railway in The Town of Boyce, and that Gates be erected and maintained by said Railway in lieu thereof: Having been maturely considered by the Council: and the Council of the Town of Boyce being of opinion that the Public Interest requires the removal of said Bell and that a Gate be erected and maintained at said crossing by the Norfolk & Western Railway and a man kept in charge of the same. It is therefore adjudged, ordained and enacted that written notice be given Mr. N. D. Maker, President of said Railway Company by mailing him a copy of the Ordinance certified by the Recorder under the Seal of the Town requesting said Railway Company to remove said Bell and to erect and maintain at said Crossing from and after the 1st day of March 1918 the style of Gate said President shall deem best suited to said crossing, and to keep a man in charge thereof. Ayes -- Martin, Wyndham, Grim, Van Deventer --3-- Noes--none Mr. Dunlap was not in attendance to vote. N&W's reply was considered at the February 20, 1918 meeting (page 321): Letter from Mr. N. D. Maker President of the N&W Rwy Co read, requesting permission to substitute a visual wig-wag signal for the Gates and man in charge thereof required by the ordinance passed Jany 21, 1918. A proposed Ordinance permitting the erection and maintenance of a visual wig-wag signal and the same should prove satisfactory in operation its substitution for the gates and man in charge required by the ordinance passed January 21, 1918. Was Lost. Ayes--Van Deventer --1-- Noes--Martin, Wyndham, and Grim --3-- Evidentally, several town council members felt a wig-wag was inadequate. However, by March 5, 1918 (page 323) their opinion had changed: Mr. J. B. Baskerville, Assistant General Claim Agent, and Mr. D. W. Richards, Signal Engineer, were present representing The Norfolk & Western Railway. At their request the ordinance passed on the 21st day of January 18 in relation to the Crossing of the Turnpike by the Railway, and providing for the removal of the Electric Bell and the substitution therefor of Gates with a man in charge thereof, was repealed. Ayes--Martin, Wyndham, Grim, Van Deventer & Dunlap --5-- Noes--none- After some additional back-and-forth communications, the matter seems to have been settled by August 13, 1919 (page 371): A letter to Mr. Dunlap from Mr. J. B. Baskerville, Assistant General Claims Agent, Norfolk & Western Railway was read in regard to Crossing Signal. And it was ordered -- that said Railroad be allowed to put in a wig-wag in place of the Bell. In subsequent years, no mention is made of changing the wig-wag to flashers, gates, and bell that presently protect this crossing. Also, there is no discussion in town council notes about crossing protection at Old Chapel Road. Nonetheless, the actions described above were likely similar to those in many other communities along the N&W and other railroads in the early years of motor vehicle growth. Frank Scheer f_scheer at yahoo.com From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 23 10:53:52 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:52 -0400 Subject: Mail transportation on the N&W Tug Fork Branch In-Reply-To: <334348.94936.qm@web30106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CC2207C57FBB58-3BA4-E99B@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> I too am interested in how any non - coal hopper traffic and how much of it was moved on branches mostly existing to service coal mines. I have a small O scale railroad that is loosely based on an N&W coal branch. I always assumed that a boxcar of mining supplies or other freight would just be mixed in with the coal hoppers and brought up on a mine turn when needed. However I have many steam era boxcars and a 4-8-0. I would love to a model a daily mixed freight on my coal branch. Any further info is greatly appreciated. Thanks is advance. Tom Lewis, Jax,FL -----Original Message----- From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Thu, Oct 22, 2009 12:24 pm Subject: Mail transportation on the N&W Tug Fork Branch Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:55:20 -0400 From: NW Mailing List Subject: N&W in 1910--Mail service Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 7, 1910 NEW MAIL SERVICE ------ Inaugurated on Tug Fork Branch of Norfolk and Western The Norfolk and Western has inaugurated a new mail service on the Tug Fork branch. Two mails a day now go to Anawalt and this service is greatly appreciated. The people along the Anawalt section now want an opportunity to get the train to lay over at Pageton or Anawalt at night instead of at Gary as they figure in this way they will be able to go to Welch or some other point and return the same day. An effort will also be made to get a local freight service on the line. There are eighteen or twenty mines on the Tug Fork branch and the coal companies along the line feel that enough business goes to and from these operations to warrant a local freight. It is likely that a petition will be prepared asking for such an extension of the local freight service. ------ [If there were no local freight service on Tug Fork branch how did these eighteen or so mines get the material for the tipples and mine material such as rails, cars, etc? As far as that goes how did any mines get started before the railroad reached the mine location?] Gordon Hamilton October 23, 2009 Hello, Gordon: Wasn't "local freight" service primarily for carload and less-than-carload merchanidise freight? My recollection is that "mine runs" on the N&W were not considered local freight. Regarding the mail service, the Railway Mail Service Third Division would have made a determination that mail volume and dispatches warranted mail being handled on a second train. Although there were frequent communications between a railroad's manager of mail (who also usually handled the express company service relationships, too) and the district RMS staff, the added service would have been initiated by the RMS, not the N&W. Good morning, Frank Scheer f_scheer at yahoo.com ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 23 19:38:58 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:38:58 -0400 Subject: N&W & VGN territory in 1910--Bluefield-Hinton Message-ID: Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 7, 1910 BLUEFIELD-HINTON LINE WOULD PAY ------ Number of Wealthy People Said to be Ready to Invest in Enterprise. ------ PRINCETON MAN TALKS OF PROPOSED ROUTE ------ Would Develop Country Rich in Natural Resources and Establish Connection Between Three Great Coal Carrying Roads ------ LARGE PASSENGER TRADE ASSURED FROM THE FIRST A well known Princeton man who was in the city yesterday, in speaking about the proposed railroad between this city and Hinton, said he believed the route would pay and furthermore that a number of wealthy people along the line would invest in such a property. Part of the route along the Bluestone river, the gentleman said, would be heavy work and some of it might cost as high as $100,000 a mile. Even if such were the case the construction of the forty miles would be far below $5,000,000, which it is stated in a letter to a local firm a British banking institution has for the purpose of financing a road in the locality of Bluefield. The proposed line, according to the Princeton man, would pass through large deposits of limestone, which is found close to other ingredients which go to make up the formula for Portland cement. Red and brown sandstone as well as all of the ingredients used in the making of brick, such as brick clay and pottery clay are found in abundance. Pure white silica, which is used for glassmaking, can be found in large quantities and there is waterpower as well as cheap coal and reason to believe there is natural gas close to the proposed railroad. The route would pass through a field of salt which in some cases bubbles out of the ground. Eight miles from Princeton the road would tap Rich creek, where it would reach a large lumber territory, as well as some fine Pocahontas coal. Six miles further on it would reach Camp creek where it would again reach fine timber as well as a better route into the coal fields of the great Flat Top mountain wherein lies the heart of the Pocahontas coalfield. The road would also pass through good farming communities and besides reaching all of these natural resources, added to which is excellent waterpower, it would touch Hinton, a division point of the Chesapeake and Ohio; Princeton, the principal town and a division point on the Virginian, as well as Bluefield, a division point on the Norfolk and Western and the gateway to the Pocahontas coalfield. The Chesapeake and Ohio reaches the New River coals, the Virginian reaches the Pocahontas, Beckley and Sewell seams, and the Norfolk and Western has the greatest coalfield in the country, embracing the heart of the Pocahontas measures, the Tug River, Thacker and other seams which are valuable for coking as well as steam purposes. At the present time there is a fair passenger trade between the towns and as the road would make a short cut it would develop a large passenger trade. In addition to this large [sic, passenger trade?] shippers would have their goods shipped via the short line so as to save time, and better freight rates would be enjoyed. Bluefield has a population of 15,000; Princeton now claims 5,000 people and Hinton has 6,000. Both Princeton and Bluefield are growing rapidly and Hinton is not far behind. Princeton is bound to reach at least 10,000 within the next two years, and if another railroad should come here, it would grow even more rapidly. Bluefield should go to 25,000 in the next five years and with a new railroad it would grow even more rapidly. The chambers of commerce in Bluefield, Princeton and Hinton should get busy. Bluefield and Princeton, because they need another road and Hinton so that it may be able to force the keeping of the division point at that place instead of allowing it to be removed to Thurmond. The Princeton people are heartily in sympathy with the movement to get as an additional railroad. Bluefield is enthusiastic and Hinton is doubtless not far behind. ------ [The reference to Rich creek is a bit puzzling. Obviously, this does not refer to the community of Rich Creek, VA. There is a stream named Rich creek that flows into the Bluestone river at Spanishburg, WV, but that is up the Bluestone river from the mouth of Brush Creek, which the railroad would presumable follow from Princeton to the Bluestone river. Also, how about it C&O historians. Was there ever a serious threat to move the division point from Hinton to Thurmond?] Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 23 22:50:07 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Collapse of tunnel on the Pokey Message-ID: <23028385.1256352607659.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I got this from another list. One fatality. If this is a repeat on here, and I missed it, please forgive. Story: http://www.wsaz.com/newswestvirginia/headlines/65517252.html Charlie Long From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sat Oct 24 01:06:18 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:06:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Mail transportation on the N&W Tug Fork Branch In-Reply-To: <8CC2207C57FBB58-3BA4-E99B@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <602398.22067.qm@web84404.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Tom, ? The Employee Time Table for January 1930, shows Third Class (mixed trains) for he following Pocahontas Division branch lines; Pond Creek, Lewis Creek, Honaker and Big Creek.? You might want to get a copy of the re-print from the N&WHS store if they are still available. Charlie --- On Fri, 10/23/09, NW Mailing List wrote: From: NW Mailing List Subject: Re: Mail transportation on the N&W Tug Fork Branch To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 2:53 PM I too am interested in how any non - coal hopper traffic and how much of it was moved on branches mostly existing to service coal mines. I have a small O scale railroad that is loosely based on an N&W coal branch.? I always assumed that a boxcar of mining supplies or other freight would just be mixed in with the coal hoppers and brought up on a mine turn when needed.? However I have many steam era boxcars and a 4-8-0.? I would love to a model a daily mixed freight on my coal branch. Any further info is greatly appreciated. Thanks is advance. Tom Lewis, Jax,FL -----Original Message----- From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Thu, Oct 22, 2009 12:24 pm Subject: Mail transportation on the N&W Tug Fork Branch Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:55:20 -0400 From: NW Mailing List Subject: N&W in 1910--Mail service Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 7, 1910 NEW MAIL SERVICE ------ Inaugurated on Tug Fork Branch of Norfolk and Western The Norfolk and Western has inaugurated a new mail service on the Tug Fork branch. Two mails a day now go to Anawalt and this service is greatly appreciated. The people along the Anawalt section now want an opportunity to get the train to lay over at Pageton or Anawalt at night instead of at Gary as they figure in this way they will be able to go to Welch or some other point and return the same day. An effort will also be made to get a local freight service on the line. There are eighteen or twenty mines on the Tug Fork branch and the coal companies along the line feel that enough business goes to and from these operations to warrant a local freight. It is likely that a petition will be prepared asking for such an extension of the local freight service. ------ [If there were no local freight service on Tug Fork branch how did these eighteen or so mines get the material for the tipples and mine material such as rails, cars, etc? As far as that goes how did any mines get started before the railroad reached the mine location?] Gordon Hamilton October 23, 2009 Hello, Gordon: Wasn't "local freight" service primarily for carload and less-than-carload merchanidise freight? My recollection is that "mine runs" on the N&W were not considered local freight. Regarding the mail service, the Railway Mail Service Third Division would have made a determination that mail volume and dispatches warranted mail being handled on a second train. Although there were frequent communications between a railroad's manager of mail (who also usually handled the express company service relationships, too) and the district RMS staff, the added service would have been initiated by the RMS, not the N&W. Good morning, Frank Scheer f_scheer at yahoo.com ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sat Oct 24 12:59:04 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:59:04 -0400 Subject: Operator manual for steam locomotives? Message-ID: I hope this isn't a stupid question: Over the years, I've seen dozens of "operator manuals" for diesel locomotives for sale, but I've never seen one for a N&W steam locomotive (or any steam locomotive, for that matter). Is that because there simply wasn't one? Did you learn to become a steam locomotive engineer by serving as a fireman and then eventually "switch seats" when you were experienced enough? Mike Weeks Greenville NC _________________________________ Mike Weeks, LCSW, LCAS M1, Brody School of Medicine 2013 MSW, UNC at Charlotte 2003 BS Acct, UNC at Charlotte 1989 From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Oct 25 09:50:03 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:50:03 -0400 Subject: N&W in 1910--Rare Pullman move Message-ID: <7FA507023772496C8538B2E938763B10@DellVostro> Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 13, 1910 IN CITY AND COALFIELD ------ Pullman for Injured Man A Pullman car was taken through this city yesterday afternoon to Toms Creek where it will be used to carry Mr. Kent, head agent for the Virginia Iron, Coal and Coke Company, who was injured recently by a draft of cars, to Philadelphia, where he will receive surgical treatment. This is one of the few occasions in this section where a special Pullman car has ever been brought to the Clinch Valley to carry one man to a distant city. [This movement of a Pullman car on the Clinch Valley must have been a particularly rare event because Toms Creek was at the end of the 2.5-mile branch line out of Coeburn, VA.] ------ Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Oct 25 16:06:27 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 16:06:27 -0400 Subject: Passenger schedules Message-ID: <537668AB-1A5E-44E3-85D4-913A66C9B295@earthlink.net> I was looking through the J" book and at the route grade profiles and I was wondering how the schedules changed from the 1920's and 1930's with K1's and K2 pulling the consists to the J's and J1's during WWII and then after WWII. Since the J's were more powerful were they able to reduce the times between stops to any significant amount, or did they just load up the consist to the max for the engines used? What were the average speeds? I figure the J's were more powerful when the boiler pressure was increased from 275 to 300PSI, but did that imply faster, or heavier consists? Did the K2's get different cylinders when they were upgraded? Were the N&W passenger engines limited by speed limits or technical specifications? I hear stories of J's getting past 100MPH, but nothing about the K1's or K2's. Is their any source for finding out their operational specifications, like speed, max loads etc? Mark Lindsey Stuck in the 1930's From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Oct 25 22:41:11 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:41:11 -0400 Subject: Operator manual for steam locomotives? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46116829.38ae.40c7.8433.c874de5b73bd@aol.com> Mike: I can't answer your question directly because I don't know the answer, but I do know that there were "operator's manuals" for the LC2 electrics (and I'd have to assume for the LC1s as well....) because I have one in my possession. Someday when I've gone to my reward ("I was put on this earth to accomplish certain things, and at the rate I'm going I'll live forever!") it will go to the N&WHS archives. Dave Phelps In a message dated 10/25/09 08:48:16 Eastern Daylight Time, nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes: I hope this isn't a stupid question: Over the years, I've seen dozens of "operator manuals" for diesel locomotives for sale, but I've never seen one for a N&W steam locomotive (or any steam locomotive, for that matter). Is that because there simply wasn't one? Did you learn to become a steam locomotive engineer by serving as a fireman and then eventually "switch seats" when you were experienced enough? Mike Weeks Greenville NC _________________________________ Mike Weeks, LCSW, LCAS M1, Brody School of Medicine 2013 MSW, UNC at Charlotte 2003 BS Acct, UNC at Charlotte 1989 ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: