From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 26 02:31:08 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:31:08 -0400 Subject: Operator manual for steam locomotives? References: Message-ID: Mike, International Correspondence School did have a fairly complete set of manuals that described how a steam locomotive and its various appliances operated. If you can find them they are a real treasure trove of information. Excellent is the only word to describe them! Years ago I approached Jim about having my set reprinted and sold through the N&WHS. Nothing ever came of it. The C&O had a fireman's manual that is very very good. At one time it a reprint was available through the C&OHS. There are also a couple of web sites that have manuals from the PRR & NYC. As far as I know the N&W had nothing specific to compare with any of the above, however, my set of ICS books came from an N&W engineer and I would venture a guess that the N&W may have went that route ( plus on the job training ) as far as educating their new firemen. BTW, the ICS course catalog has an illustration of a J on the cover. NYC course: http://www.railarchive.net/firing/index.html I can't find the PRR right now, but, I do have it in a pdf file. Jimmy Lisle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 26 07:05:01 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 04:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Passenger schedules In-Reply-To: <537668AB-1A5E-44E3-85D4-913A66C9B295@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <784968.63021.qm@web31807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A test report at the archives indicates that N&W was interested in operating economy when considering raising the J's boiler pressure from 275 psi to 300 psi. There was a measurable savings in coal and water per unit of output at the higher pressure. Dave Stephenson From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 26 10:31:44 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:31:44 -0400 Subject: N&W in 1910--New Mallets Message-ID: <78141B21BCBC400E80E9B49ED8EBE3AA@DellVostro> Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 13, 1910 MALLET ENGINES WILL ARRIVE NEXT MONTH ------ Six Cents an Hour Additional Pay Granted to the Men Who Will Run Monsters The new Mallet engines, about which there has been so much talk and which have been so anxiously expected, are to arrive on the Pocahontas division between the 1st and 15th of next month. The engines of which there have been ten ordered will be put to work at once. It is claimed for them that they will haul twice as much as the largest engines which are now in use on the road [Class M2 4-8-0s] and anticipating their arrival the Norfolk and Western has strengthened a large number of its bridges over which the engines will have to pass. In many cases new bridges have been built and the roadbed put in shape to accommodate the monsters which are really two engines in one. The engineers who will run them have had their wage questions settled. In this connection the coming of the Mallet engines was provided for, it being understood that six cents an hour additional pay was granted to the men who run the monsters. ------ [The ten Mallets would have been the five X1 0-8-8-0 and five Y1 2-8-8-2 Mallets, of which neither group was particularly successful.] Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 26 10:56:35 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:56:35 -0400 Subject: Passenger schedules In-Reply-To: <784968.63021.qm@web31807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <537668AB-1A5E-44E3-85D4-913A66C9B295@earthlink.net> <784968.63021.qm@web31807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F3554EA464547899B784B928436F25B@071927350f> The reason behind the increase in pressure is one based on thermodynamics. In short, the engine becomes more thermally efficient and more of the heat energy put into the steam can be recovered for mechanical work under the conditions of higher pressure- an increase in 'enthalpy'. Hence, the savings in coal and water usage as mentioned by Dave. Gary Rolih Cincinnati -----Original Message----- From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 7:05 AM To: NW Mailing List Subject: Re: Passenger schedules A test report at the archives indicates that N&W was interested in operating economy when considering raising the J's boiler pressure from 275 psi to 300 psi. There was a measurable savings in coal and water per unit of output at the higher pressure. Dave Stephenson ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 26 15:27:00 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:27:00 -0400 Subject: Steam Locomotive Operating Manuals Message-ID: <540e48700910261227t63e44415v54b2de95d26bcaaf@mail.gmail.com> I, for one, cannot recall seeing any railroad specific operating manuals for steam engines, per se. What I have seen and do see at shows and the like are ICS manuals, fireman's questions, plus various catechisms published over the years by a number of originators. Forney's is one name which comes to mind and another similar one was "The Locomotive Up To Date" starting in I think the late 1890's and being reprinted and updated by the publisher over the next 3 decades. The most recently dated one of those I have seen is 1927. The Locomotive Up To Date was recently reprinted and I am sure you can find it either at a big train show like Gaithersburg, MD this coming weekend or perhaps even on-line. The originals are potentially fragile, hence the desire to preserve them and wear out the reprint. These two I have named provide probably everything one would need to know for the era about firing, operating, braking as well as breakdown and repairs. You want to know about valve gear and valve events; they have it. You want to know about the new airbrakes (remember the early dates of these things), they have that. Backhead pressure .... I think we get the picture. They have it all. I am sure there are more more recently published ones of the same concept and perhaps one of our other corespondents here can assist in that area. But I do not recall seeing any specifically dedicated to one railroad for unlike today when it's kind of one size fits all, you specified exactly what you wanted from your lot of engines and the manufacturer of the day gave you a specific price based upon the quantity ordered and the specs required. Bob Cohen ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:41:11 -0400 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: Re: Operator manual for steam locomotives? > To: "NW Mailing List" > Message-ID: <46116829.38ae.40c7.8433.c874de5b73bd at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Mike: > > I can't answer your question directly because I don't know the answer, but I do know that there were "operator's manuals" for the LC2 electrics (and I'd have to assume for the LC1s as well....) because I have one in my possession. ?Someday when I've gone to my reward ("I was put on this earth to accomplish certain things, and at the rate I'm going I'll live forever!") it will go to the N&WHS archives. > > Dave Phelps > > In a message dated 10/25/09 08:48:16 Eastern Daylight Time, nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes: > I hope this isn't a stupid question: Over the years, I've seen dozens of "operator manuals" for diesel locomotives for sale, but ?I've never seen one for a N&W steam locomotive (or any steam locomotive, for that matter). Is that because there simply wasn't one? Did you learn to become a steam locomotive engineer by serving as a fireman and then eventually "switch seats" when you were experienced enough? > > Mike Weeks > Greenville NC > > > _________________________________ > Mike Weeks, LCSW, LCAS > M1, Brody School of Medicine 2013 > MSW, UNC at Charlotte 2003 > BS Acct, UNC at Charlotte 1989 > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:31:08 -0400 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: Re: Operator manual for steam locomotives? > To: "NW Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Mike, > ? ?International Correspondence School did have a fairly complete set of manuals that described how a steam locomotive and its various appliances operated. If you can find them they are a real treasure trove of information. Excellent is the only word to describe them! > ? ?Years ago I approached Jim about having my set reprinted and sold through the N&WHS. Nothing ever came of it. > ? ?The C&O had a fireman's manual that is very very good. At one time it a reprint was available through the C&OHS. There are also a couple of web sites that have manuals from the PRR & NYC. > ? ?As far as I know the N&W had nothing specific to compare with any of the above, however, my set of ICS books came from an N&W engineer and I would venture a guess that the N&W may have went that route ( plus on the job training ) as far as educating their new firemen. BTW, the ICS course catalog has an illustration of a J on the cover. > > NYC course: http://www.railarchive.net/firing/index.html > > ? ?I can't find the PRR right now, but, I do have it in a pdf file. > Jimmy Lisle From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 26 16:01:02 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:01:02 -0400 Subject: Steam Locomotive Operating Manuals In-Reply-To: <540e48700910261227t63e44415v54b2de95d26bcaaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091026200102.Q5Z95.474852.root@hrndva-web10-z01> I have a copy of the N&W Q&A for promotion of firemen to engineers dated October, 1912. It is quite extensive, covering both firing and running, with subsets for cross-compounds (class B 2-8-0s) and Mallets (X-1, Y-1 and Z-1 - the first Z-1s had were about five months old). It also covers air brake, electrical (headlights) and other items. It is a close as you can find to an operator's manual. EdKing ---- NW Mailing List wrote: > I, for one, cannot recall seeing any railroad specific operating > manuals for steam engines, per se. What I have seen and do see at > shows and the like are ICS manuals, fireman's questions, plus various > catechisms published over the years by a number of originators. > Forney's is one name which comes to mind and another similar one was > "The Locomotive Up To Date" starting in I think the late 1890's and > being reprinted and updated by the publisher over the next 3 decades. > The most recently dated one of those I have seen is 1927. The > Locomotive Up To Date was recently reprinted and I am sure you can > find it either at a big train show like Gaithersburg, MD this coming > weekend or perhaps even on-line. The originals are potentially > fragile, hence the desire to preserve them and wear out the reprint. > > These two I have named provide probably everything one would need to > know for the era about firing, operating, braking as well as breakdown > and repairs. You want to know about valve gear and valve events; they > have it. You want to know about the new airbrakes (remember the early > dates of these things), they have that. Backhead pressure .... I think > we get the picture. They have it all. I am sure there are more more > recently published ones of the same concept and perhaps one of our > other corespondents here can assist in that area. But I do not recall > seeing any specifically dedicated to one railroad for unlike today > when it's kind of one size fits all, you specified exactly what you > wanted from your lot of engines and the manufacturer of the day gave > you a specific price based upon the quantity ordered and the specs > required. > > Bob Cohen > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:41:11 -0400 > > From: NW Mailing List > > Subject: Re: Operator manual for steam locomotives? > > To: "NW Mailing List" > > Message-ID: <46116829.38ae.40c7.8433.c874de5b73bd at aol.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Mike: > > > > I can't answer your question directly because I don't know the answer, but I do know that there were "operator's manuals" for the LC2 electrics (and I'd have to assume for the LC1s as well....) because I have one in my possession. ?Someday when I've gone to my reward ("I was put on this earth to accomplish certain things, and at the rate I'm going I'll live forever!") it will go to the N&WHS archives. > > > > Dave Phelps > > > > In a message dated 10/25/09 08:48:16 Eastern Daylight Time, nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes: > > I hope this isn't a stupid question: Over the years, I've seen dozens of "operator manuals" for diesel locomotives for sale, but ?I've never seen one for a N&W steam locomotive (or any steam locomotive, for that matter). Is that because there simply wasn't one? Did you learn to become a steam locomotive engineer by serving as a fireman and then eventually "switch seats" when you were experienced enough? > > > > Mike Weeks > > Greenville NC > > > > > > _________________________________ > > Mike Weeks, LCSW, LCAS > > M1, Brody School of Medicine 2013 > > MSW, UNC at Charlotte 2003 > > BS Acct, UNC at Charlotte 1989 > > ________________________________________ > > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > > To change your subscription go to > > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:31:08 -0400 > > From: NW Mailing List > > Subject: Re: Operator manual for steam locomotives? > > To: "NW Mailing List" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Mike, > > ? ?International Correspondence School did have a fairly complete set of manuals that described how a steam locomotive and its various appliances operated. If you can find them they are a real treasure trove of information. Excellent is the only word to describe them! > > ? ?Years ago I approached Jim about having my set reprinted and sold through the N&WHS. Nothing ever came of it. > > ? ?The C&O had a fireman's manual that is very very good. At one time it a reprint was available through the C&OHS. There are also a couple of web sites that have manuals from the PRR & NYC. > > ? ?As far as I know the N&W had nothing specific to compare with any of the above, however, my set of ICS books came from an N&W engineer and I would venture a guess that the N&W may have went that route ( plus on the job training ) as far as educating their new firemen. BTW, the ICS course catalog has an illustration of a J on the cover. > > > > NYC course: http://www.railarchive.net/firing/index.html > > > > ? ?I can't find the PRR right now, but, I do have it in a pdf file. > > Jimmy Lisle > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 26 16:23:49 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:23:49 -0400 Subject: Steam Locomotive Operating Manuals In-Reply-To: <540e48700910261227t63e44415v54b2de95d26bcaaf@mail.gmail.com> References: <540e48700910261227t63e44415v54b2de95d26bcaaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0AFE060E730E4AB7AFE27E04A852AB5F@ashememorial.org> It would appear that Locomotive Up to Date is available to download at this address http://www.archive.org/details/locomotiveuptoda00mcshrich. I also found reprints available at LuLu and Amazon for about $60.00. R.D. Williams -----Original Message----- From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 3:27 PM To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Subject: Steam Locomotive Operating Manuals I, for one, cannot recall seeing any railroad specific operating manuals for steam engines, per se. What I have seen and do see at shows and the like are ICS manuals, fireman's questions, plus various catechisms published over the years by a number of originators. Forney's is one name which comes to mind and another similar one was "The Locomotive Up To Date" starting in I think the late 1890's and being reprinted and updated by the publisher over the next 3 decades. The most recently dated one of those I have seen is 1927. The Locomotive Up To Date was recently reprinted and I am sure you can find it either at a big train show like Gaithersburg, MD this coming weekend or perhaps even on-line. The originals are potentially fragile, hence the desire to preserve them and wear out the reprint. These two I have named provide probably everything one would need to know for the era about firing, operating, braking as well as breakdown and repairs. You want to know about valve gear and valve events; they have it. You want to know about the new airbrakes (remember the early dates of these things), they have that. Backhead pressure .... I think we get the picture. They have it all. I am sure there are more more recently published ones of the same concept and perhaps one of our other corespondents here can assist in that area. But I do not recall seeing any specifically dedicated to one railroad for unlike today when it's kind of one size fits all, you specified exactly what you wanted from your lot of engines and the manufacturer of the day gave you a specific price based upon the quantity ordered and the specs required. Bob Cohen ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:41:11 -0400 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: Re: Operator manual for steam locomotives? > To: "NW Mailing List" > Message-ID: <46116829.38ae.40c7.8433.c874de5b73bd at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Mike: > > I can't answer your question directly because I don't know the answer, but I do know that there were "operator's manuals" for the LC2 electrics (and I'd have to assume for the LC1s as well....) because I have one in my possession. ?Someday when I've gone to my reward ("I was put on this earth to accomplish certain things, and at the rate I'm going I'll live forever!") it will go to the N&WHS archives. > > Dave Phelps > > In a message dated 10/25/09 08:48:16 Eastern Daylight Time, nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes: > I hope this isn't a stupid question: Over the years, I've seen dozens of "operator manuals" for diesel locomotives for sale, but ?I've never seen one for a N&W steam locomotive (or any steam locomotive, for that matter). Is that because there simply wasn't one? Did you learn to become a steam locomotive engineer by serving as a fireman and then eventually "switch seats" when you were experienced enough? > > Mike Weeks > Greenville NC > > > _________________________________ > Mike Weeks, LCSW, LCAS > M1, Brody School of Medicine 2013 > MSW, UNC at Charlotte 2003 > BS Acct, UNC at Charlotte 1989 > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:31:08 -0400 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: Re: Operator manual for steam locomotives? > To: "NW Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Mike, > ? ?International Correspondence School did have a fairly complete set of manuals that described how a steam locomotive and its various appliances operated. If you can find them they are a real treasure trove of information. Excellent is the only word to describe them! > ? ?Years ago I approached Jim about having my set reprinted and sold through the N&WHS. Nothing ever came of it. > ? ?The C&O had a fireman's manual that is very very good. At one time it a reprint was available through the C&OHS. There are also a couple of web sites that have manuals from the PRR & NYC. > ? ?As far as I know the N&W had nothing specific to compare with any of the above, however, my set of ICS books came from an N&W engineer and I would venture a guess that the N&W may have went that route ( plus on the job training ) as far as educating their new firemen. BTW, the ICS course catalog has an illustration of a J on the cover. > > NYC course: http://www.railarchive.net/firing/index.html > > ? ?I can't find the PRR right now, but, I do have it in a pdf file. > Jimmy Lisle ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 26 17:09:41 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:09:41 -0400 Subject: Steam Locomotive Operating Manuals In-Reply-To: <540e48700910261227t63e44415v54b2de95d26bcaaf@mail.gmail.com> References: <540e48700910261227t63e44415v54b2de95d26bcaaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks to everyone for the info. What was the career path to becoming an engineer on the N&W? Did you hire on as a brakeman or a fireman and eventually become either a conductor or an engineer based on competence and experience and length of service? _________________________________ Mike Weeks, LCSW, LCAS M1, Brody School of Medicine 2013 MSW, UNC at Charlotte 2003 BS Acct, UNC at Charlotte 1989 ________________________________________ From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List [nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org] Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 3:27 PM To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Subject: Steam Locomotive Operating Manuals I, for one, cannot recall seeing any railroad specific operating manuals for steam engines, per se. What I have seen and do see at shows and the like are ICS manuals, fireman's questions, plus various catechisms published over the years by a number of originators. Forney's is one name which comes to mind and another similar one was "The Locomotive Up To Date" starting in I think the late 1890's and being reprinted and updated by the publisher over the next 3 decades. The most recently dated one of those I have seen is 1927. The Locomotive Up To Date was recently reprinted and I am sure you can find it either at a big train show like Gaithersburg, MD this coming weekend or perhaps even on-line. The originals are potentially fragile, hence the desire to preserve them and wear out the reprint. These two I have named provide probably everything one would need to know for the era about firing, operating, braking as well as breakdown and repairs. You want to know about valve gear and valve events; they have it. You want to know about the new airbrakes (remember the early dates of these things), they have that. Backhead pressure .... I think we get the picture. They have it all. I am sure there are more more recently published ones of the same concept and perhaps one of our other corespondents here can assist in that area. But I do not recall seeing any specifically dedicated to one railroad for unlike today when it's kind of one size fits all, you specified exactly what you wanted from your lot of engines and the manufacturer of the day gave you a specific price based upon the quantity ordered and the specs required. Bob Cohen ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:41:11 -0400 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: Re: Operator manual for steam locomotives? > To: "NW Mailing List" > Message-ID: <46116829.38ae.40c7.8433.c874de5b73bd at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Mike: > > I can't answer your question directly because I don't know the answer, but I do know that there were "operator's manuals" for the LC2 electrics (and I'd have to assume for the LC1s as well....) because I have one in my possession. Someday when I've gone to my reward ("I was put on this earth to accomplish certain things, and at the rate I'm going I'll live forever!") it will go to the N&WHS archives. > > Dave Phelps > > In a message dated 10/25/09 08:48:16 Eastern Daylight Time, nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes: > I hope this isn't a stupid question: Over the years, I've seen dozens of "operator manuals" for diesel locomotives for sale, but I've never seen one for a N&W steam locomotive (or any steam locomotive, for that matter). Is that because there simply wasn't one? Did you learn to become a steam locomotive engineer by serving as a fireman and then eventually "switch seats" when you were experienced enough? > > Mike Weeks > Greenville NC > > > _________________________________ > Mike Weeks, LCSW, LCAS > M1, Brody School of Medicine 2013 > MSW, UNC at Charlotte 2003 > BS Acct, UNC at Charlotte 1989 > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:31:08 -0400 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: Re: Operator manual for steam locomotives? > To: "NW Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Mike, > International Correspondence School did have a fairly complete set of manuals that described how a steam locomotive and its various appliances operated. If you can find them they are a real treasure trove of information. Excellent is the only word to describe them! > Years ago I approached Jim about having my set reprinted and sold through the N&WHS. Nothing ever came of it. > The C&O had a fireman's manual that is very very good. At one time it a reprint was available through the C&OHS. There are also a couple of web sites that have manuals from the PRR & NYC. > As far as I know the N&W had nothing specific to compare with any of the above, however, my set of ICS books came from an N&W engineer and I would venture a guess that the N&W may have went that route ( plus on the job training ) as far as educating their new firemen. BTW, the ICS course catalog has an illustration of a J on the cover. > > NYC course: http://www.railarchive.net/firing/index.html > > I can't find the PRR right now, but, I do have it in a pdf file. > Jimmy Lisle ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 26 18:19:01 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:19:01 -0400 Subject: Steam Locomotive Operating Manuals References: <540e48700910261227t63e44415v54b2de95d26bcaaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <12D5FDB7AF43474E9081E48F2ED95A12@StudyComputer> Wildwood Publications reprinted the ICS stuff in four hardback volumes in 1979 Larry Evans ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" To: Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 3:27 PM Subject: Steam Locomotive Operating Manuals I, for one, cannot recall seeing any railroad specific operating manuals for steam engines, per se. What I have seen and do see at shows and the like are ICS manuals, fireman's questions, plus various catechisms published over the years by a number of originators. Forney's is one name which comes to mind and another similar one was "The Locomotive Up To Date" starting in I think the late 1890's and being reprinted and updated by the publisher over the next 3 decades. The most recently dated one of those I have seen is 1927. The Locomotive Up To Date was recently reprinted and I am sure you can find it either at a big train show like Gaithersburg, MD this coming weekend or perhaps even on-line. The originals are potentially fragile, hence the desire to preserve them and wear out the reprint. These two I have named provide probably everything one would need to know for the era about firing, operating, braking as well as breakdown and repairs. You want to know about valve gear and valve events; they have it. You want to know about the new airbrakes (remember the early dates of these things), they have that. Backhead pressure .... I think we get the picture. They have it all. I am sure there are more more recently published ones of the same concept and perhaps one of our other corespondents here can assist in that area. But I do not recall seeing any specifically dedicated to one railroad for unlike today when it's kind of one size fits all, you specified exactly what you wanted from your lot of engines and the manufacturer of the day gave you a specific price based upon the quantity ordered and the specs required. Bob Cohen ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:41:11 -0400 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: Re: Operator manual for steam locomotives? > To: "NW Mailing List" > Message-ID: <46116829.38ae.40c7.8433.c874de5b73bd at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Mike: > > I can't answer your question directly because I don't know the answer, but > I do know that there were "operator's manuals" for the LC2 electrics (and > I'd have to assume for the LC1s as well....) because I have one in my > possession. Someday when I've gone to my reward ("I was put on this earth > to accomplish certain things, and at the rate I'm going I'll live > forever!") it will go to the N&WHS archives. > > Dave Phelps > > In a message dated 10/25/09 08:48:16 Eastern Daylight Time, > nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes: > I hope this isn't a stupid question: Over the years, I've seen dozens of > "operator manuals" for diesel locomotives for sale, but I've never seen > one for a N&W steam locomotive (or any steam locomotive, for that matter). > Is that because there simply wasn't one? Did you learn to become a steam > locomotive engineer by serving as a fireman and then eventually "switch > seats" when you were experienced enough? > > Mike Weeks > Greenville NC > > > _________________________________ > Mike Weeks, LCSW, LCAS > M1, Brody School of Medicine 2013 > MSW, UNC at Charlotte 2003 > BS Acct, UNC at Charlotte 1989 > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:31:08 -0400 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: Re: Operator manual for steam locomotives? > To: "NW Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Mike, > International Correspondence School did have a fairly complete set of > manuals that described how a steam locomotive and its various appliances > operated. If you can find them they are a real treasure trove of > information. Excellent is the only word to describe them! > Years ago I approached Jim about having my set reprinted and sold through > the N&WHS. Nothing ever came of it. > The C&O had a fireman's manual that is very very good. At one time it a > reprint was available through the C&OHS. There are also a couple of web > sites that have manuals from the PRR & NYC. > As far as I know the N&W had nothing specific to compare with any of the > above, however, my set of ICS books came from an N&W engineer and I would > venture a guess that the N&W may have went that route ( plus on the job > training ) as far as educating their new firemen. BTW, the ICS course > catalog has an illustration of a J on the cover. > > NYC course: http://www.railarchive.net/firing/index.html > > I can't find the PRR right now, but, I do have it in a pdf file. > Jimmy Lisle ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Oct 26 20:38:02 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:38:02 GMT Subject: MOW Sighting in Summerville? Message-ID: <20091026.203802.8565.0@webmail08.vgs.untd.com> Listers, Does any one have info about a piece of N&W MOW equipment parked along with other cars on the south side of Highway 48 in Summerville, Georgia? It is painted in the gray scheme with black "N&W" markings. I spotted it last week traveling through Summerville. Because I was with a group I was unable to stop and get a good look It appeared to be made from a converted boxcar. I was taken by surprised to see a piece of equipment still displaying "N&W" and located so far south. From the fleeting glimpse I had it appeared to be in fairly decent shape. Here's to hoping... Dave Moorehead Milford, OH ____________________________________________________________ Weight Loss Program Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=6MeVz6--485msSBBMBqdIgAAJz0EfYvq2cf24k6W9nXC_g23AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Oct 27 07:24:17 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 07:24:17 -0400 Subject: Steam Locomotive Operating Manuals In-Reply-To: <0AFE060E730E4AB7AFE27E04A852AB5F@ashememorial.org> Message-ID: >>It would appear that Locomotive Up to Date is available to download at this address http://www.archive.org/details/locomotiveuptoda00mcshrich<< Thanks for posting that. For those who haven't looked, it's a scan of the entire book including the end plates. The book languished in UC Berkeley's engineering library without being checked out from 1949 to 1963. The ad pages in the back of the book are interesting too; the George R. Fuller Company apparently thought that locomotive engineers were a target market for their "Walkeasy" artificial legs. Rob Doorack From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Oct 27 10:00:51 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:00:51 -0500 Subject: Steam Locomotive Manuals Message-ID: In my collection I have a 5"x7" manual issued by the Santa Fe, Form 2500: "Instructions for Enginemen - governing - The Care, Maintenance and Economical Operation of the Steam Locomotive" It was Copyrighted by the ATSF RR, 1921, revised 1929, and revised 1942. It's 221 pages, with nine large pullouts for the various components the engineman should be familiar with. Apparently it was issued to all newly hired enginemen; a great little book. In 1979, the late Bill Fitt, then the publisher of Live Steam Magazine and owner of Wildwood Publications, published the four volume series from ICS "The Steam Locomotive Study Course". I paid $85 for the four volume set in 1980, It is no longer published, but you may be able to find used copies on Amazon, our other places. ISBN #0-914104-05-5 http://www.livesteam.net/ Ron Peisker From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Oct 27 22:11:30 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SOU 1701 from the Tennessean Message-ID: <883671.36673.qm@web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks for the link to Souther 1701, Norbert! http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=301900&nseq=0 Best wishes, Frank From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Oct 27 22:51:38 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:51:38 -0400 Subject: Steam Locomotive Operating Manuals References: <540e48700910261227t63e44415v54b2de95d26bcaaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7FD7261EE7B24792B9491D85386DD76E@susan> In the "good 'ole days", the crafts of enginemen and trainmen were totally separate. That's not to say that occasionally a brakeman might switch to a fireman's job, if the opportunity presented itself. After all the enginemen made more money than a trainman. However, if you hired as a fireman, you might fire for 5, 10, or more years before you got to move to the right side of the cab. Promotions were made on an as needed basis. Also, you moved up in seniority order. So, theoretically, the man ahead of you might be promoted, and you might not be promoted for another couple of years. Of course, when you were promoted, you started working extra, or as needed. It might be another five years before you got to run on a regular job. It was all seniority. It is similar today, except that a new hire comes in as a qualified conductor, but when his number is up (except for certain exceptions), he has to go to "engine school" to qualify as an engineer. If he doesn't pass, guess what? He hits the street. Jeff Sanders ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" To: "NW Mailing List" Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 5:09 PM Subject: RE: Steam Locomotive Operating Manuals > Thanks to everyone for the info. > > What was the career path to becoming an engineer on the N&W? Did you hire > on as a brakeman or a fireman and eventually become either a conductor or > an engineer based on competence and experience and length of service? > _________________________________ > Mike Weeks, LCSW, LCAS > M1, Brody School of Medicine 2013 > MSW, UNC at Charlotte 2003 > BS Acct, UNC at Charlotte 1989 > ________________________________________ > From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] > On Behalf Of NW Mailing List [nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org] > Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 3:27 PM > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org > Subject: Steam Locomotive Operating Manuals > > I, for one, cannot recall seeing any railroad specific operating > manuals for steam engines, per se. What I have seen and do see at > shows and the like are ICS manuals, fireman's questions, plus various > catechisms published over the years by a number of originators. > Forney's is one name which comes to mind and another similar one was > "The Locomotive Up To Date" starting in I think the late 1890's and > being reprinted and updated by the publisher over the next 3 decades. > The most recently dated one of those I have seen is 1927. The > Locomotive Up To Date was recently reprinted and I am sure you can > find it either at a big train show like Gaithersburg, MD this coming > weekend or perhaps even on-line. The originals are potentially > fragile, hence the desire to preserve them and wear out the reprint. > > These two I have named provide probably everything one would need to > know for the era about firing, operating, braking as well as breakdown > and repairs. You want to know about valve gear and valve events; they > have it. You want to know about the new airbrakes (remember the early > dates of these things), they have that. Backhead pressure .... I think > we get the picture. They have it all. I am sure there are more more > recently published ones of the same concept and perhaps one of our > other corespondents here can assist in that area. But I do not recall > seeing any specifically dedicated to one railroad for unlike today > when it's kind of one size fits all, you specified exactly what you > wanted from your lot of engines and the manufacturer of the day gave > you a specific price based upon the quantity ordered and the specs > required. > > Bob Cohen > > ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:41:11 -0400 >> From: NW Mailing List >> Subject: Re: Operator manual for steam locomotives? >> To: "NW Mailing List" >> Message-ID: <46116829.38ae.40c7.8433.c874de5b73bd at aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Mike: >> >> I can't answer your question directly because I don't know the answer, >> but I do know that there were "operator's manuals" for the LC2 electrics >> (and I'd have to assume for the LC1s as well....) because I have one in >> my possession. Someday when I've gone to my reward ("I was put on this >> earth to accomplish certain things, and at the rate I'm going I'll live >> forever!") it will go to the N&WHS archives. >> >> Dave Phelps >> >> In a message dated 10/25/09 08:48:16 Eastern Daylight Time, >> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes: >> I hope this isn't a stupid question: Over the years, I've seen dozens of >> "operator manuals" for diesel locomotives for sale, but I've never seen >> one for a N&W steam locomotive (or any steam locomotive, for that >> matter). Is that because there simply wasn't one? Did you learn to become >> a steam locomotive engineer by serving as a fireman and then eventually >> "switch seats" when you were experienced enough? >> >> Mike Weeks >> Greenville NC >> >> >> _________________________________ >> Mike Weeks, LCSW, LCAS >> M1, Brody School of Medicine 2013 >> MSW, UNC at Charlotte 2003 >> BS Acct, UNC at Charlotte 1989 >> ________________________________________ >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org >> To change your subscription go to >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:31:08 -0400 >> From: NW Mailing List >> Subject: Re: Operator manual for steam locomotives? >> To: "NW Mailing List" >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Mike, >> International Correspondence School did have a fairly complete set of >> manuals that described how a steam locomotive and its various appliances >> operated. If you can find them they are a real treasure trove of >> information. Excellent is the only word to describe them! >> Years ago I approached Jim about having my set reprinted and sold >> through the N&WHS. Nothing ever came of it. >> The C&O had a fireman's manual that is very very good. At one time it >> a reprint was available through the C&OHS. There are also a couple of web >> sites that have manuals from the PRR & NYC. >> As far as I know the N&W had nothing specific to compare with any of >> the above, however, my set of ICS books came from an N&W engineer and I >> would venture a guess that the N&W may have went that route ( plus on the >> job training ) as far as educating their new firemen. BTW, the ICS course >> catalog has an illustration of a J on the cover. >> >> NYC course: http://www.railarchive.net/firing/index.html >> >> I can't find the PRR right now, but, I do have it in a pdf file. >> Jimmy Lisle > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.30/1030 - Release Date: > 9/25/2007 8:02 AM > > From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Oct 28 12:11:39 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:11:39 -0400 Subject: Y6B 2171 Message-ID: <8CC2600774D480C-5488-1223C@webmail-m086.sysops.aol.com> The Y6b roster on page 118 of the N&W Class Y book from TLC Publishing shows that engine #2171 was not scrapped until May of 1970. Why was this the last Y6b to be cut-up? Were there any efforts made to save her? I always thought that all Y6b's were scrapped by the 1960's. Jeff Morfit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Oct 28 16:53:19 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:53:19 -0400 Subject: Y6B 2171 References: <8CC2600774D480C-5488-1223C@webmail-m086.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001101ca5810$aef56800$6500a8c0@Dad> I know that there was one Y class still in a scrap yard across the diamond from JK tower where Helm's stone yard is now (or was until recently) into the late 1960's. Might that have been the 2171? I've heard that many efforts were made to save it but that the owner of the business, who, I believe was an absentee owner in Britain, was hostile to any suggestions that it be saved. Sam Putney ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:11 PM Subject: Y6B 2171 The Y6b roster on page 118 of the N&W Class Y book from TLC Publishing shows that engine #2171 was not scrapped until May of 1970. Why was this the last Y6b to be cut-up? Were there any efforts made to save her? I always thought that all Y6b's were scrapped by the 1960's. Jeff Morfit ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Oct 28 19:48:00 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:48:00 -0400 Subject: N&W in 1910--Peculiar accident Message-ID: <4660632E3D92407F83CD67EB417430EF@DellVostro> Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 22, 1910 MEETS PECULIAR DEATH ----- Remains of S. A. Vaught, Fireman, Found Beside Track S. A. Vaught, a fireman, met with a peculiar death early this morning between Coaldale and Maybeury. The man in some way was knocked from his engine and the fact that he had disappeared from his post was not known until the engineer noticed that the steam was getting low. It is supposed that the man had thrown some coal in the firebox and afterwards grasping the handle of the cab leaned out of the window to get a view of the smokestack when some passing freight struck him, pitching him headlong to death. The train crew found his remains alongside the track. Vaught worked out of Vivian and is a brother of H. L. Vaught, section master at Vivian. He was unmarried and twenty-six years of age. ------ Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 29 00:00:48 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:00:48 -0400 Subject: Y6B 2171 References: <8CC2600774D480C-5488-1223C@webmail-m086.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7045635C4D2E49E19F29E5631C1EFB6D@lewisdl0ls5whv> I am not familiar with the roster in the Y Book. The 2171 could have been scrapped in 5-1970, but I cannot verify this. But that was not the last Y6b scrapped. In late 1975, I walked around both Y6 2143 and Y6b 2174 in the yard of the Virginia Iron and Metal in Roanoke. I even walked on top of the boiler of the 2174 and being a bright sunny day, I viewed the "waffleiron" exhaust ports by looking down the stack. The 2174 had its tender; the 2143 did not. I went overseas in early 2-1976. Soon afterward, I received a Roanoke Times newspaper clipping dated Friday, February 20, 1976. The clipping was about the scrapyard cutting up the 2174, the last Y6b. The article stated that the scrapping began on the previous Monday [that would the February 16th] and that its sister [that would be 2143] had been scrapped a couple of weeks earlier. The 2143 was the last Y6 and the 2174 the last Y6b. The article also stated that only one other Y6 class was left--that would be the Y6a 2156 in St. Louis at the National Museum of Transportation. BTW, the 2171 had been in the VI&M, too. I understand that there was some effort to save the 2174 but scrap metal values were extremely high in the mid-70s. The figure I heard was the 2174 was valued at about $50,000 and that the scrapyard had paid only about $5,000 for itin 1960. If this is so, the scrapyard made a killin' on this one. Bud Jeffries ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:11 PM Subject: Y6B 2171 The Y6b roster on page 118 of the N&W Class Y book from TLC Publishing shows that engine #2171 was not scrapped until May of 1970. Why was this the last Y6b to be cut-up? Were there any efforts made to save her? I always thought that all Y6b's were scrapped by the 1960's. Jeff Morfit ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 29 08:55:05 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:55:05 -0400 Subject: "Taking Twenty" with the Virginian Brethren Message-ID: <4AE990A9.2080207@vt.edu> Last night I had the pleasure of "Takin' Twenty" with eleven of the Brethren and Friends of the Virginian Railway. I showed them a response to last week's story about large men who worked on the railroad by Abram Burnett. Abe told about Radford Division trainman Leonard Hodges. "One day there was a run-away at Bluefield and Hodges was the Fireman. Everyone jumped off before the train was moving too fast, except for Hodges. By the time he squeezed thru the door and wobbled to the steps, the speed was too great for him to jump. He rode it out". Thanks Abe for the kind words about Raymond East, he is truly in the "Gentlemen of the Old School club". Ruf Wingfield, Raymond and Landon remembered Abe and some of their comments will be in future reports... I showed the Brethren Norfolk Southern's new "text message live chat support" where a customer can locate their cars, containers or trailers at any time. NS will also alert the customers of any changes in shipment of their merchandise such as shopped cars,delays, and ETAs. All this can be done with cell phones or blackberries. I asked the Brethren what method was used on the VGN to obtain the same information for customers. Ruf Wingfield said that they had a "Camp Book" where each car was tracked through interchange and terminals except for Sewalls Point coal. Landon said that the "backtracking method could take days to locate a specific car where NS customers now get this information instantaneously". Ruf said that the "Camp Books" were updated each shift and each year they were "stored under the yard office". I asked did he meant in the basement and he said no, shelves were build out in the open under the building. "The big flood washed them away" he said. As we ate our dinner, the news was being shown on the Restaurant TV. When a story spoke of our troops Rufus remembered rail cars that carried troops in WWII being called "forty and eights". Someone asked him why they were called this. He said that "each carried 40 G Is and 8 mules". The ebay report this time includes: "The Virginian Era" by Lloyd Lewis, $33.00; slide of EL-2B $13.23; VGN red short globe lantern $306.84; 1915 VGN Pass $28.77; slide of a 2-bay VGN hopper $11.49 and Aubrey's VGN Calendar $9.99. We also discussed a recent news release stating that NS earnings were down for the 3rd quarter by 29% over 2nd quarter earnings. Passed around was Aubrey Wiley's 1961 photo of VGN B-23 Jordan Spreader and Ken Miller's VGN "Plow Car" drawing (photo on this site under rolling stock). This related to the snow removal discussion of weeks past. Since Halloween is this Saturday, I asked if the Brethren remembered any extra security being used on Halloween past on the VGN. Landon said that sometimes if they could locate a "cinder dick" (RR Police officer) "we would get him to check on high priority box cars".Raymond East remembers hitting hay stacked on the track and torpedoes lined up for our trains and nearby street cars to explode on Halloween. I showed the Brethren a "Roanoke Times" story "The devil's route?" about Route 666 in nearby Bedford County near Forest. This road near Thomas Jefferson's "Bedford Forest" summer home runs parallel to the NS tracks and some say it is "haunted by old NS workers who helped build the railroad". "Many rumors surrounding Route 666 in Forest also known as Elton Road, tell of strange happenings at night". Someone mentioned that because spanking kids is now politically incorrect, a lot of parents yell at them instead, and now yelling at them is "under fire". One of the Brethren, I will not mention his name, responded "until I was nine years old, I thought my name was 'Gitwood'". Time to pull the pin on this one! Departing Now from V248, Skip Salmon ============= From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 29 09:25:37 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Pulaski Update Message-ID: <622087.361.qm@web30107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/223966 Frank Scheer f_scheer at yahoo.com From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 29 09:38:09 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:38:09 -0400 Subject: Y6B 2171 In-Reply-To: <7045635C4D2E49E19F29E5631C1EFB6D@lewisdl0ls5whv> References: <8CC2600774D480C-5488-1223C@webmail-m086.sysops.aol.com> <7045635C4D2E49E19F29E5631C1EFB6D@lewisdl0ls5whv> Message-ID: <63A80D5B-3EF2-4875-BA04-A19F502D2EE4@rev.net> Just a minor correct and some addition to Bud's excellent report. The two locomotive, 2143 and 2174 were at United Iron and Metal, not Virginia Scrap Iron and Metal. United had been sold sometime in 1975 to British interests, I am guessing as part of some larger deal, and their main mission was clear, scrap everything on site, and close the business, which was completed sometime in 1976. United had also kept 2189 on the property fairly late, cutting it up sometime about 1967, I remember seeing it, and I have a photo of it in decrepit shape. I don't believe that 2171 lasted very long, scrap steel had a fairly high value in 1960-1962, I wish I could find some historic data on scrap pricing, anyone with suggestions of a internet source? At least one piece of 2171 survives for certain, the number plate has been sitting on my mantle for over 20 years now. I believe that the pilot from 2174 is the one on display placed along Roanoke's Railwalk. The 2143 and 2174 had been stored for sometime at Shaffers Crossing, on the dead line east of the roundhouse, I remember begin taken up there about 1969 and taking snapshots of them sitting there. Sometime about 1970 or so, N&W told United they would have to get them out of there, and moved them to the scrap yard. I don't have any of my references with me, but I am fairly certain they had been sold in 1960 or 1961. I think on the same roll of film, I had a shot of the Virginian Narrows power house in excellent afternoon light. I had made my father stop and let me take the photo on our way back from a family vacation. I said "let me get a picture, you never know when they are going to tear something like that down." His response was, "oh, they are not going to tear that down, it is too much trouble." but he stopped anyway. Less than a year later, the place was gone. Lesson to be learned, always take photos, you never truly know when something will be gone the next time. Best Ken Miller On Oct 29, 2009, at 12:00 AM, NW Mailing List wrote: > I am not familiar with the roster in the Y Book. The 2171 could > have been scrapped in 5-1970, but I cannot verify this. But that > was not the last Y6b scrapped. > > In late 1975, I walked around both Y6 2143 and Y6b 2174 in the yard > of the Virginia Iron and Metal in Roanoke. I even walked on top of > the boiler of the 2174 and being a bright sunny day, I viewed the > "waffleiron" exhaust ports by looking down the stack. The 2174 had > its tender; the 2143 did not. > > I went overseas in early 2-1976. Soon afterward, I received a > Roanoke Times newspaper clipping dated Friday, February 20, 1976. > The clipping was about the scrapyard cutting up the 2174, the last > Y6b. The article stated that the scrapping began on the previous > Monday [that would the February 16th] and that its sister [that > would be 2143] had been scrapped a couple of weeks earlier. > > The 2143 was the last Y6 and the 2174 the last Y6b. The article > also stated that only one other Y6 class was left--that would be > the Y6a 2156 in St. Louis at the National Museum of Transportation. > BTW, the 2171 had been in the VI&M, too. > > I understand that there was some effort to save the 2174 but scrap > metal values were extremely high in the mid-70s. The figure I heard > was the 2174 was valued at about $50,000 and that the scrapyard had > paid only about $5,000 for itin 1960. If this is so, the scrapyard > made a killin' on this one. > > Bud Jeffries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: NW Mailing List > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org > Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:11 PM > Subject: Y6B 2171 > > The Y6b roster on page 118 of the N&W Class Y book from TLC > Publishing shows that engine #2171 was not scrapped until May of > 1970. Why was this the last Y6b to be cut-up? Were there any > efforts made to save her? I always thought that all Y6b's were > scrapped by the 1960's. > > Jeff Morfit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 29 11:19:59 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:19:59 -0400 Subject: Eastern Kentucky Railway Marker event Message-ID: Of possible interest to our Scioto Division members around Kenova WV: On November 21st at 12 Noon, The Eastern Kentucky Railway Historical Society is happy to announce the dedication of the Willard Historical Marker. This will be a Highway Marker dedicated to the Eastern Kentucky Railway and its importance to the people of Eastern Kentucky. The EK railway existed from 1865 through 1933 in Greenup, Carter and Lawrence Counties. The membership of the EK society has completed highway markers at each important stop of the railway so that one might travel via automobile and read the history of the railroad. This railroad gained international fame through Jesse Stuart who wrote about it in his book Huey the Engineer and is the only railroad in the U.S. documented from beginning to end in this manner. The Willard marker will be the only two sided marker dedicated due to the amount of history for this area. The Marker will read: In 1873 the line extended from Grayson to Willard. Located here were a turntable, water tower, railroad scales and engine house. Nearby -the Lick Branch and Lost Creek spurs as well as EK coal mines and a coal camp existed. The EK railroad was prominent in the Porter Lynching of 1892 as an angry mob stole the train and hung Mr. Porter south of Willard from a railroad bridge. On October 31, 1905, 6 men attempted to rob the safe at the Bank of Willard but were thwarted by locals. The robbers escaped by using an EK engine but were later captured as they slept up Johns Creek Branch. In the 1920's for $7.20 a month, kids took the EK's Blue Goose to school from Willard to Grayson each day. Gary Rolih Cincinnati -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 29 13:11:57 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 10:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Y6B 2171 Message-ID: <718064.56084.qm@web82801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am curious if records exist as to how many engines were actually cut up at United? From the looks of the area it wasn't a very large scrap yard, and surely could not have held many engines waiting to be cut up. I am still searching for photos of the scrap yard pre-1976 with the Y-6s still there. Contact me via this forum if you have any available. Bill Drotar, Jr. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 29 14:38:10 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 48, Issue 43 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <262541.90455.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Too bad the British interest involved wasn't Dai Woodham of Barry Scrapyard fame, I'm guessing those engines would still be with us otherwise.? Was United Iron & Metal also owned by Sam Golden of Virginia Scrap Iron & Metal before the sale, or were they two completely separate operations?? I've been told once or twice over the years that the Y6's were in Sam Golden's Norwich yard (the one that still has the N&W steam crane sitting in it).? Sounds like that information might have been wrong?? If so, I'll need to make a correction or two on the Lost Engines site. Richard Jenkins Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:38:09 -0400 From: NW Mailing List Subject: Re: Y6B 2171 To: NW Mailing List Message-ID: <63A80D5B-3EF2-4875-BA04-A19F502D2EE4 at rev.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"; ??? DelSp="yes" Just a minor correct and some addition to Bud's excellent report. The? two locomotive, 2143 and 2174 were at United Iron and Metal, not? Virginia Scrap Iron and Metal. United had been sold sometime in 1975? to British interests, I am guessing as part of some larger deal, and? their main mission was clear, scrap everything on site, and close the? business, which was completed sometime in 1976. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 29 14:52:06 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:52:06 -0400 Subject: Y6B 2171 References: <8CC2600774D480C-5488-1223C@webmail-m086.sysops.aol.com> <7045635C4D2E49E19F29E5631C1EFB6D@lewisdl0ls5whv> <63A80D5B-3EF2-4875-BA04-A19F502D2EE4@rev.net> Message-ID: <11A8EE9890794E22B36D6BD791DC571D@lewisdl0ls5whv> Thanks, Ken, for the correction. I have "United" in my records but wrote "Virginia" instead. Call it old age. Bud Jeffries ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:38 AM Subject: Re: Y6B 2171 Just a minor correct and some addition to Bud's excellent report. The two locomotive, 2143 and 2174 were at United Iron and Metal, not Virginia Scrap Iron and Metal. United had been sold sometime in 1975 to British interests, I am guessing as part of some larger deal, and their main mission was clear, scrap everything on site, and close the business, which was completed sometime in 1976. United had also kept 2189 on the property fairly late, cutting it up sometime about 1967, I remember seeing it, and I have a photo of it in decrepit shape. I don't believe that 2171 lasted very long, scrap steel had a fairly high value in 1960-1962, I wish I could find some historic data on scrap pricing, anyone with suggestions of a internet source? At least one piece of 2171 survives for certain, the number plate has been sitting on my mantle for over 20 years now. I believe that the pilot from 2174 is the one on display placed along Roanoke's Railwalk. The 2143 and 2174 had been stored for sometime at Shaffers Crossing, on the dead line east of the roundhouse, I remember begin taken up there about 1969 and taking snapshots of them sitting there. Sometime about 1970 or so, N&W told United they would have to get them out of there, and moved them to the scrap yard. I don't have any of my references with me, but I am fairly certain they had been sold in 1960 or 1961. I think on the same roll of film, I had a shot of the Virginian Narrows power house in excellent afternoon light. I had made my father stop and let me take the photo on our way back from a family vacation. I said "let me get a picture, you never know when they are going to tear something like that down." His response was, "oh, they are not going to tear that down, it is too much trouble." but he stopped anyway. Less than a year later, the place was gone. Lesson to be learned, always take photos, you never truly know when something will be gone the next time. Best Ken Miller On Oct 29, 2009, at 12:00 AM, NW Mailing List wrote: I am not familiar with the roster in the Y Book. The 2171 could have been scrapped in 5-1970, but I cannot verify this. But that was not the last Y6b scrapped. In late 1975, I walked around both Y6 2143 and Y6b 2174 in the yard of the Virginia Iron and Metal in Roanoke. I even walked on top of the boiler of the 2174 and being a bright sunny day, I viewed the "waffleiron" exhaust ports by looking down the stack. The 2174 had its tender; the 2143 did not. I went overseas in early 2-1976. Soon afterward, I received a Roanoke Times newspaper clipping dated Friday, February 20, 1976. The clipping was about the scrapyard cutting up the 2174, the last Y6b. The article stated that the scrapping began on the previous Monday [that would the February 16th] and that its sister [that would be 2143] had been scrapped a couple of weeks earlier. The 2143 was the last Y6 and the 2174 the last Y6b. The article also stated that only one other Y6 class was left--that would be the Y6a 2156 in St. Louis at the National Museum of Transportation. BTW, the 2171 had been in the VI&M, too. I understand that there was some effort to save the 2174 but scrap metal values were extremely high in the mid-70s. The figure I heard was the 2174 was valued at about $50,000 and that the scrapyard had paid only about $5,000 for itin 1960. If this is so, the scrapyard made a killin' on this one. Bud Jeffries ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:11 PM Subject: Y6B 2171 The Y6b roster on page 118 of the N&W Class Y book from TLC Publishing shows that engine #2171 was not scrapped until May of 1970. Why was this the last Y6b to be cut-up? Were there any efforts made to save her? I always thought that all Y6b's were scrapped by the 1960's. Jeff Morfit ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 29 15:37:38 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 48, Issue 43 In-Reply-To: <262541.90455.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <262541.90455.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42461.768.qm@web82801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Whether the "Norwich yard" of VSI&M may have had Y6s or not I don't know. However, the infamous #s2143,2174 & 2189 were at United Iron and Metal near 4th and Albemarle. The yard sat North of the diamond at JK between the Virginian and N&W mains. Don't believe that Mr. Golden was involved with United....but I could be wrong. ________________________________ From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:38:10 PM Subject: Re: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 48, Issue 43 Too bad the British interest involved wasn't Dai Woodham of Barry Scrapyard fame, I'm guessing those engines would still be with us otherwise. Was United Iron & Metal also owned by Sam Golden of Virginia Scrap Iron & Metal before the sale, or were they two completely separate operations? I've been told once or twice over the years that the Y6's were in Sam Golden's Norwich yard (the one that still has the N&W steam crane sitting in it). Sounds like that information might have been wrong? If so, I'll need to make a correction or two on the Lost Engines site. Richard Jenkins Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:38:09 -0400 >From: NW Mailing List >Subject: Re: Y6B 2171 >To: NW Mailing List >Message-ID: <63A80D5B-3EF2-4875-BA04-A19F502D2EE4 at rev.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"; > DelSp="yes" > >Just a minor correct and some addition to Bud's excellent report. The >two locomotive, 2143 and 2174 were at United Iron and Metal, not >Virginia Scrap Iron and Metal. United had been sold sometime in 1975 >to British interests, I am guessing as part of some larger deal, and >their main mission was clear, scrap everything on site, and close the > >business, which was completed sometime in 1976. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 29 16:15:43 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:15:43 -0400 Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 48, Issue 43 In-Reply-To: <262541.90455.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20091029201543.9UQKB.535968.root@hrndva-web15-z01> AFAIK, United was owned by a guy named Milton Blank. EdKing ---- NW Mailing List wrote: > Too bad the British interest involved wasn't Dai Woodham of Barry Scrapyard fame, I'm guessing those engines would still be with us otherwise.? Was United Iron & Metal also owned by Sam Golden of Virginia Scrap Iron & Metal before the sale, or were they two completely separate operations?? I've been told once or twice over the years that the Y6's were in Sam Golden's Norwich yard (the one that still has the N&W steam crane sitting in it).? Sounds like that information might have been wrong?? If so, I'll need to make a correction or two on the Lost Engines site. > > Richard Jenkins > > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:38:09 -0400 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: Re: Y6B 2171 > To: NW Mailing List > Message-ID: <63A80D5B-3EF2-4875-BA04-A19F502D2EE4 at rev.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"; > ??? DelSp="yes" > > Just a minor correct and some addition to Bud's excellent report. The? > two locomotive, 2143 and 2174 were at United Iron and Metal, not? > Virginia Scrap Iron and Metal. United had been sold sometime in 1975? > to British interests, I am guessing as part of some larger deal, and? > their main mission was clear, scrap everything on site, and close the? > business, which was completed sometime in 1976. From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 29 16:46:30 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:46:30 -0400 Subject: Y6B 2171 Message-ID: My family was in the scrap metal business for many years in southern WV. My father and I still talk about my Grandfather's business principles and how he built the family business. So, I can appreciate a scrap dealer's need to "turn" the inventory, but what a loss for N&W history to lose the last Y6b like that. Had things gone differently, the 2174 could have completed the "Big Three" collection at the VMT. Would this have been the last "22I" tender in existence with 2174? Thanks, Chris Dalton Bluefield, WV _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, now it's more reliable. Wow! http://microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/default-ga.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:102009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Oct 29 19:26:01 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:26:01 -0400 Subject: Saltville Locomotives Message-ID: <309b12130910291626i6ab13df5g8e5e5de7f639b384@mail.gmail.com> We drove over to Saltville this afternoon and were stunned to see what has taken place since our last visit during Labor Day Weekend. D.E. Eakin and Sons, Inc of Roanoke has a contract, being funded by the town of Saltville and a grant from VDOT, to restore the two ex- Mathieson Alkali Works locomotives and has brought them around to be visual head-turners (disregarding the white-painted wheels, of course). I attach a view of the former N&W 2-8-0 sold to Mathieson in 1922. In today's Saltville Progress, Roger A. Allison has written a fine, detailed account of the restoration effort and the history of the two steam engines. Also, the enclosure and surrounding sidewalks and grounds are being given a professional redo. Expect Saltville will now become a distinct destination for railfans. Mike Pierry, Jr. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NewSaltville.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 426545 bytes Desc: not available Url : From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 30 04:04:38 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 04:04:38 -0400 Subject: Y6B 2171 References: Message-ID: "So, I can appreciate a scrap dealer's need to "turn" the inventory," Yes, but just look how long they sat there after the fact! Jimmy Lisle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 30 08:47:42 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:47:42 -0400 Subject: Saltville Locomotives In-Reply-To: <309b12130910291626i6ab13df5g8e5e5de7f639b384@mail.gmail.com> References: <309b12130910291626i6ab13df5g8e5e5de7f639b384@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AEAE06E.8050803@btsrr.com> NW Mailing List wrote: > We drove over to Saltville this afternoon and were stunned to see what > has taken place since our last visit during Labor Day Weekend. > > D.E. Eakin and Sons, Inc of Roanoke has a contract, being funded by > the town of Saltville and a grant from VDOT, to restore the two ex- > Mathieson Alkali Works locomotives and has brought them around to be > visual head-turners (disregarding the white-painted wheels, of course). > (snip) Thanks for the photo, Mike! The folks did a good job. The white tires don't bother me, but all that yellow is a bit much this early in the morn. Take care Bill -- == Scale Model Railroad Products == == Manufacturer - Retailer - Importer == Bill & Diane Wade B.T.S. RR 1 Box 141A Belington, WV 26250 Phone: 304-823-3729 FAX: 304-823-2901 http://www.btsrr.com We wish you Fair Winds and Following Seas. From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 30 10:23:58 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Saltville Locomotives Message-ID: <6738729.1256912638896.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mike: Thanks for the update. When we were there for the NWHS Convention (Bristol), we couldn't help to notice the pride that the Town has for their equipment including the steam engines. I'm a little like one of the other listers, the yellow is a little 'strong'. I wish that would have been, say, silver? Regardless, they are taken care of. Charlie Long Lynchburg -----Original Message----- >From: NW Mailing List >Sent: Oct 29, 2009 7:26 PM >To: NW Mailing List >Subject: Saltville Locomotives > >We drove over to Saltville this afternoon and were stunned to see what has >taken place since our last visit during Labor Day Weekend. > >D.E. Eakin and Sons, Inc of Roanoke has a contract, being funded by the town >of Saltville and a grant from VDOT, to restore the two ex- Mathieson Alkali >Works locomotives and has brought them around to be visual head-turners >(disregarding the white-painted wheels, of course). > >I attach a view of the former N&W 2-8-0 sold to Mathieson in 1922. > >In today's Saltville Progress, Roger A. Allison has written a fine, detailed >account of the restoration effort and the history of the two steam engines. > >Also, the enclosure and surrounding sidewalks and grounds are being given a >professional redo. Expect Saltville will now become a distinct destination >for railfans. > >Mike Pierry, Jr. From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 30 10:53:00 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:53:00 -0400 Subject: Y6A 2156 Message-ID: <8CC2787CF1CCBE8-79C-87B1@webmail-m049.sysops.aol.com> I heard that Robert Claytor was trying to negotiate with the National Museum about leasing, and restorting Y6A 2156 for railfan service during his tenure, but was refused for some reason. He really offered them a sweet deal, too. Said that NS would pay to move the 2156 to Irondale Shops and restore it, and then lease her from the museum for five years. When the lease ended NS again would overhaul the Y6 at their expense so that it could still be operated in train service and return it to the museum. Jeff Morfit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 30 16:32:41 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:32:41 -0400 Subject: Y6A 2156 In-Reply-To: <8CC2787CF1CCBE8-79C-87B1@webmail-m049.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC2787CF1CCBE8-79C-87B1@webmail-m049.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9d5f4ad00910301332g450482c2q513b55fa7e110c3d@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Jeff Morfit wrote: > I heard that Robert Claytor was trying to negotiate with the National Museum > about leasing, and restorting Y6A 2156 for railfan service during his > tenure, but was refused for some reason. Word going around at the time was that the St. Louis folks wanted Norfolk Southern to post a ridiculously high performance bond to cover movement of the engine from St. Louis to Alabama. NS, being in the rail transportation business and having recently completed the successful movement of both the 611 and the 1218 from Roanoke to Alabama, balked at the absurd request. That pretty much put the project at a stalemate. Bruce in Blacksburg From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 30 16:38:13 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:38:13 -0400 Subject: Y6B 2171 Message-ID: <4AEB4EB5.3080309@vt.edu> I too saw them in 1973. And while my slides are marked "Virginia Scrap Iron", United works for me. Attached are some photos. How can one distinguish between a Y6 and Y6b in the state these locos were in? Don Trettel [Moderator] See images at following: http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=69 http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=70 http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=71 From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 30 16:51:00 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:51:00 -0400 Subject: Y6A 2156 In-Reply-To: <9d5f4ad00910301332g450482c2q513b55fa7e110c3d@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CC2787CF1CCBE8-79C-87B1@webmail-m049.sysops.aol.com> <9d5f4ad00910301332g450482c2q513b55fa7e110c3d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: BRUCE The folks in St Louis did not TRUST N&W to return the engine - as the proposed agreement indicted would happen/ We did fly to St Louis twice to meet with them - no luck. PLAN B - restore the Class J #611 instead. The rest is history David Helmer ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" To: "NW Mailing List" Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 4:32 PM Subject: Re: Y6A 2156 > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Jeff Morfit wrote: >> I heard that Robert Claytor was trying to negotiate with the National >> Museum >> about leasing, and restorting Y6A 2156 for railfan service during his >> tenure, but was refused for some reason. > > Word going around at the time was that the St. Louis folks wanted > Norfolk Southern to post a ridiculously high performance bond to cover > movement of the engine from St. Louis to Alabama. NS, being in the > rail transportation business and having recently completed the > successful movement of both the 611 and the 1218 from Roanoke to > Alabama, balked at the absurd request. That pretty much put the > project at a stalemate. > > Bruce in Blacksburg > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 30 16:58:26 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:58:26 +0000 Subject: Y6B 2171 In-Reply-To: <4AEB4EB5.3080309@vt.edu> References: <4AEB4EB5.3080309@vt.edu> Message-ID: The Y6a has two air pumps on the engineer's side, with a BL feedwater heater on the fireman's side . The Y6b has an air pump on each side. James Jarvis > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:38:13 -0400 > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org > Subject: RE: Y6B 2171 > From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org > > I too saw them in 1973. And while my slides are marked "Virginia Scrap > Iron", United works for me. Attached are some photos. > How can one distinguish between a Y6 and Y6b in the state these locos > were in? > > > Don Trettel > > [Moderator] > See images at following: > http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=69 > http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=70 > http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=71 > > > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 30 18:23:00 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:23:00 EDT Subject: Y6B 2171 Message-ID: Don, Thanks for sharing these. I barely remember seeing them in the scrap yard. I was 7 or 8 years old... Richard D. Shell Troutville, VA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 30 22:40:42 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:40:42 -0400 Subject: N&W in 1910--Signals Message-ID: <5A57F0D7F72144A4A6A0BA822D2BC102@DellVostro> Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 22, 1910 IN CITY AND COALFIELD ------ New Signal System The Norfolk and Western has installed a system known as a quadrant system of signals at the Hatfield tunnel near Williamson and the new signals were put in operation on Wednesday. On Monday the new system of automatic signals between Devon and Williamson will be put in working order and from that time they will be used. The superintendent has issued instructions which must be followed so as to preserve life and property and to secure the proper working of the signals. These are only a few of the improvements which the road is making at this time. ------ [The descriptive phrase "...quadrant system of signals...." appears to be incomplete. It probably refers to upper quadrant semaphore signals as opposed to lower quadrant semaphore signals because only two years earlier (1908) the American Railway Association adopted three-position, upper right-hand quadrant semaphore signals as recommended practice, and the N&W would certainly have installed signals that complied with the latest industry recommendations.] Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Oct 30 23:46:23 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:46:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Y6B 2171 In-Reply-To: <4AEB4EB5.3080309@vt.edu> References: <4AEB4EB5.3080309@vt.edu> Message-ID: <845734.13364.qm@web82801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Wow. Fantastic to see them.....but sad at the same time. Thanks for sharing them and please post some more if you have them. The subject has always interested me as they hung around so long after the end of steam yet still vanished well after the "preservation era" had begun. ________________________________ From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Fri, October 30, 2009 4:38:13 PM Subject: RE: Y6B 2171 I too saw them in 1973. And while my slides are marked "Virginia Scrap Iron", United works for me. Attached are some photos. How can one distinguish between a Y6 and Y6b in the state these locos were in? Don Trettel [Moderator] See images at following: http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=69 http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=70 http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=71 ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sat Oct 31 00:31:10 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 00:31:10 -0400 Subject: Y6B 2174 Message-ID: Do any of you guys know if any private individuals tried to purchase 2174 or 2143 before they were cut up at the scrapyard? Its just unbelievable how they sat there that long, and one of them wasn't saved! Jimmy Lisle touched on this in an earlier post, but the scenario is really strange. In my Grandfather's scrapyard he would occasionally "sit" on certain stockpiles of a specific metal waiting for a bump in the market price. I don't think I ever recall a time that something was purchased for scrap like these engines and just left sitting for years. To benefit from an increase in the market price it would seem you'd want it already dismantled and ready to ship. Did the handling of these engines result from a change in ownership at the scrapyard? Thanks in advance for the history lessons. Chris Dalton, Bluefield, WV _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, now it's more reliable. Wow! http://microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/default-ga.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:102009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sat Oct 31 10:52:03 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:52:03 -0700 Subject: Y6B 2171 In-Reply-To: <845734.13364.qm@web82801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4AEB4EB5.3080309@vt.edu> <845734.13364.qm@web82801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <59057AB8F80A4DFB8F35AD042930E51E@don1> Sadly, I was a teenager when I took these pictures and I didn't have the wisdom to realize how precious these objects were. I took only those 3 shots and then turned back to the living railroad. Don _____ From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:46 PM To: NW Mailing List Subject: Re: Y6B 2171 Wow. Fantastic to see them.....but sad at the same time. Thanks for sharing them and please post some more if you have them. The subject has always interested me as they hung around so long after the end of steam yet still vanished well after the "preservation era" had begun. _____ From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Fri, October 30, 2009 4:38:13 PM Subject: RE: Y6B 2171 I too saw them in 1973. And while my slides are marked "Virginia Scrap Iron", United works for me. Attached are some photos. How can one distinguish between a Y6 and Y6b in the state these locos were in? Don Trettel [Moderator] See images at following: http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=69 http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=70 http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=71 ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sat Oct 31 12:40:27 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:40:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Y6B 2174 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <970434.34809.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Maybe someone else will supply more details, but the story has always been the scrap yard was sold to a group from England in 1975 or early 1976 who scrapped the engines shortly after the purchase. ________________________________ From: NW Mailing List To: nw mailing list Sent: Sat, October 31, 2009 12:31:10 AM Subject: Y6B 2174 Do any of you guys know if any private individuals tried to purchase 2174 or 2143 before they were cut up at the scrapyard? Its just unbelievable how they sat there that long, and one of them wasn't saved! Jimmy Lisle touched on this in an earlier post, but the scenario is really strange. In my Grandfather's scrapyard he would occasionally "sit" on certain stockpiles of a specific metal waiting for a bump in the market price. I don't think I ever recall a time that something was purchased for scrap like these engines and just left sitting for years. To benefit from an increase in the market price it would seem you'd want it already dismantled and ready to ship. Did the handling of these engines result from a change in ownership at the scrapyard? Thanks in advance for the history lessons. Chris Dalton, Bluefield, WV ________________________________ Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, now it's more reliable. Wow! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sat Oct 31 16:50:19 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Y6B 2171 In-Reply-To: <59057AB8F80A4DFB8F35AD042930E51E@don1> References: <4AEB4EB5.3080309@vt.edu> <845734.13364.qm@web82801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <59057AB8F80A4DFB8F35AD042930E51E@don1> Message-ID: <754743.46324.qm@web82807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks again for posting the three that you did. With as many people have "foamed" around Roanoke over the years I have never seen any images taken 1976 or earlier from the Walnut Ave. overpass. This would clearly show the facility. Looking around the 'net you find lots of recent pics from there showing the former site. Perhaps this thread will encourage someone else to scan up and post a few more. Bill Drotar, Jr. ________________________________ From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Sat, October 31, 2009 10:52:03 AM Subject: RE: Y6B 2171 Sadly, I was a teenager when I took these pictures and I didn't have the wisdom to realize how precious these objects were. I took only those 3 shots and then turned back to the living railroad. Don ________________________________ From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:46 PM To: NW Mailing List Subject: Re: Y6B 2171 Wow. Fantastic to see them.....but sad at the same time. Thanks for sharing them and please post some more if you have them. The subject has always interested me as they hung around so long after the end of steam yet still vanished well after the "preservation era" had begun. ________________________________ From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Fri, October 30, 2009 4:38:13 PM Subject: RE: Y6B 2171 I too saw them in 1973. And while my slides are marked "Virginia Scrap Iron", United works for me. Attached are some photos. How can one distinguish between a Y6 and Y6b in the state these locos were in? Don Trettel [Moderator] See images at following: http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=69 http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=70 http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=71 ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sat Oct 31 19:57:35 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 19:57:35 -0400 Subject: Virginian in 1910--Rogers Message-ID: <98347112A8EF43F4AC16C0CE3D60DCD5@DellVostro> Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 23, 1910 BIG FORTUNE SHRINKS ------ Heavy Cost of Virginian Ate Up Rogers' Millions New York, April 22--H. H. Rogers, who was credited with building up the Standard Oil's multi-millions, left for his heirs hardly a third of the immense fortune credited to him by Wall Street reports. Instead of the $100,000,000 which outsiders estimated as a conservative figure, for the amount of the Rogers estate, the executors have estimated it at something under $36,606,900. The heavy cost of the Virginian Railway drained his resurces. The inheritance tax was paid yesterday, the last day under the law. ------ [The executors' estimate was slightly blurred on the microfilm. The best interpretation is shown.] Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Nov 1 08:44:02 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 08:44:02 -0500 Subject: "Excursion train visit harkens back to glory days in Bluefield" Message-ID: <4AED90A2.6010005@vt.edu> Bluefield readying for Saturday's Roanoke Chapter-NRHS AMTRAK excursion: http://www.bdtonline.com/local/local_story_304183806.html From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Nov 1 10:31:46 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 10:31:46 -0500 Subject: Shenandoah Trip References: <8CC2600774D480C-5488-1223C@webmail-m086.sysops.aol.com><7045635C4D2E49E19F29E5631C1EFB6D@lewisdl0ls5whv> <63A80D5B-3EF2-4875-BA04-A19F502D2EE4@rev.net> Message-ID: <3CC927506ADF43BA9EDB05D49B64A9E0@Jimmy> I see that the Shenandoah leg of next weekend's excursion hasn't sold out yet. Too bad! For those of you who haven't bought a ticket yet, you're going to be missing much better scenery than going west to BLUEfield ( barring bad weather ). But then again, I guess that I am a little biased. Jimmy Lisle -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Nov 1 11:31:19 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 11:31:19 -0500 Subject: Mail transportation on the N&W Tug Fork Branch References: <334348.94936.qm@web30106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am not aware of any dedicated local freight service on the Tug Fork Branch or other branch lines in McDowell County. I think there was local freight on the Dry Fork Branch that ran between Iaeger and Cedar Bluff, but I would have to check through notes to confirm that. While there was no local freight there was a lot of freight traffic that was normally delivered when the mine runs brought in empty coal cars to the outlying operations. Examples of local freight would be mine timbers, mine equipment, mules and other livestock, livestock feed, lubricants, sand, company store supplies, construction supplies, etc. Most company stores had a railroad siding. Mainline trains would haul the freight cars to the servicing yard such as Wilcoe, Auvil, and Eckman and the freight would be dispatched from these yards to the mining operations. The volume of freight traffic probably dropped off after the mid-1920s as the state and county road was constructed. After March 3, 1924 the early mail to Gary was delivered by truck from Welch because the mail on train No. 4 was delayed because the Gary train waited until train No. 15 left Welch. United States Coal & Coke that ran the 12 operations in Gary at the time insisted on an earlier delivery because most of their mail came from the west. If they waited on train mail delivery they couldn't get answers off until the following day. The post office accommodated the company by the one-way truck delivery. Most supplies and equipment to construct the mining operations were hauled over mountains and down streams by horse/mule pulled wagons. In some cases postal roads had been constructed such as along the Tug Fork. The road came across the mountain from Tazewell, down the South Fork towards present day Black Wolf, along the Tug Fork through present day Gary, Wilcoe, Havaco and on down to Welch to Browns Creek where it continued to Oceana in Wyoming County. The road, constructed btween 1851 and 1855, was known as the Abbs Valley and Tug Road Turnpike. There was also a wagon road from Tazewell up the Dry Fork to Iaeger. Letters from George Wolfe, first superintendent at Berwind, indicates supplies to construct the mining operation were hauled in from Tazewell. A lumber railroad was constructed down the Clear Fork so the old right of way could have been used to haul supplies to construct Coalwood. Once the railroad was constructed up Simmons Creek (or even before) it would be relatively easy to haul materials over the mountain into Maybeury and down the Elkhorn Creek Valley. Early history of Pocahontas indicates supplies and material was hauled to the site from Saltville and Whyteville. Since most of the structures were wooden the first thing hauled in was probably a portable boiler to power a sawmill along with axes and saws. Coal Mining was based on black powder, picks, shovels and labor and could be supplied by pack horse. Coke ovens were probaly built after the railroad could bring in fire brick. Railroads could also be built relatively quickly in a few months to reach the new operation once branch lines started being put in. Alex Schust ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" To: Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:24 AM Subject: Mail transportation on the N&W Tug Fork Branch > Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:55:20 -0400 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: N&W in 1910--Mail service > > Bluefield Daily Telegraph > April 7, 1910 > > NEW MAIL SERVICE > ------ > Inaugurated on Tug Fork Branch of Norfolk and Western > > The Norfolk and Western has inaugurated a new mail service on the Tug Fork > branch. Two mails a day now go to Anawalt and this service is greatly > appreciated. The people along the Anawalt section now want an opportunity > to get the train to lay over at Pageton or Anawalt at night instead of at > Gary as they figure in this way they will be able to go to Welch or some > other point and return the same day. An effort will also be made to get a > local freight service on the line. There are eighteen or twenty mines on > the Tug Fork branch and the coal companies along the line feel that enough > business goes to and from these operations to warrant a local freight. It > is likely that a petition will be prepared asking for such an extension of > the local freight service. > ------ > [If there were no local freight service on Tug Fork branch how did these > eighteen or so mines get the material for the tipples and mine material > such as rails, cars, etc? As far as that goes how did any mines get > started before the railroad reached the mine location?] > > Gordon Hamilton > > > October 23, 2009 > > Hello, Gordon: > > Wasn't "local freight" service primarily for carload and less-than-carload > merchanidise freight? My recollection is that "mine runs" on the N&W were > not considered local freight. > > Regarding the mail service, the Railway Mail Service Third Division would > have made a determination that mail volume and dispatches warranted mail > being handled on a second train. Although there were frequent > communications between a railroad's manager of mail (who also usually > handled the express company service relationships, too) and the district > RMS staff, the added service would have been initiated by the RMS, not the > N&W. > > Good morning, > > Frank Scheer > f_scheer at yahoo.com > > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Nov 1 11:49:01 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 11:49:01 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mail service References: <27E7C437649745D399C3F8FA16FB2802@DellVostro> <336FA083C10E418C91BCA44991F8988D@DellVostro> Message-ID: <2C2131338A5E41C5AFD68ACE02291C3D@DHKYT081> Interesting, but I don't think it is true. Page Coal & Coke Company was incorporated in McDowell County by Samuel Crozer, John Crozer and Louis Page of Upland, WV in 1903. Additional shareholders were John Lincoln, Samuel Evans, and John Tierney of Elkhorn, WV and Laurence Tierney of Powhatan, WV. Each of these shareholders were industrialists and coal men. Page Coal & Coke Company leased its property from Crozer Land Association. The community of Pageton was first proposed as LePage. When the post office rejected that name, the second chioce was Pageville. When that name was rejected, the name choice became Pageton. The Crozer's and Page's of near Philadelphia were fairly closely assocated in business ventures. The Crozers and Louis Page also were the incorporators and major shareholders in the Upland Coal & Coke Company and eventually the Crozer Coal & Land Company. Alex Schust ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mail service As a postscript to the posting below I should have pointed out that the Pageton, WV, mentioned in the article as being on the Tug Fork branch of the N&W was named for William Nelson Page of Virginian Railway fame as stated in the following from Wikipedia: Pageton was named for William Nelson Page (1854-1932) a civil engineer and industrialist who lived in Ansted, where he managed many iron, coal, and railroad enterprises. William Page was the first president of The Virginian Railway Company (now a part of Norfolk Southern). William N. Page was a principal of the Page Coal and Coke Company, a coal and coking company with another operation in Page in Fayette County. He established the mining operation tipple and coking ovens at Pageton around 1907. The colliery in Page, West Virginia was the Loup Creek Colliery Company and was a completely separate entity. Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: 3N&W Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:55 PM Subject: N&W in 1910--Mail service Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 7, 1910 NEW MAIL SERVICE ------ Inaugurated on Tug Fork Branch of Norfolk and Western The Norfolk and Western has inaugurated a new mail service on the Tug Fork branch. Two mails a day now go to Anawalt and this service is greatly appreciated. The people along the Anawalt section now want an opportunity to get the train to lay over at Pageton or Anawalt at night instead of at Gary as they figure in this way they will be able to go to Welch or some other point and return the same day. An effort will also be made to get a local freight service on the line. There are eighteen or twenty mines on the Tug Fork branch and the coal companies along the line feel that enough business goes to and from these operations to warrant a local freight. It is likely that a petition will be prepared asking for such an extension of the local freight service. ------ [If there were no local freight service on Tug Fork branch how did these eighteen or so mines get the material for the tipples and mine material such as rails, cars, etc? As far as that goes how did any mines get started before the railroad reached the mine location?] Gordon Hamilton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.26/2451 - Release Date: 10/22/09 08:51:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Nov 1 16:51:11 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 16:51:11 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mail service References: <27E7C437649745D399C3F8FA16FB2802@DellVostro><336FA083C10E418C91BCA44991F8988D@DellVostro> <2C2131338A5E41C5AFD68ACE02291C3D@DHKYT081> Message-ID: <122B88C8C24843F29F4D7AAA3780B0D6@DellVostro> Alex, Thanks for setting the record straight about Pageton. Most of us know that Wikipedia suffers from some misinformation posted there. I wonder if the Samuel Evans you mentioned would be the Samuel J. Evans who founded the electric company in Keystone, WV, reportedly in 1907, and later the electric company and streetcars in Princeton, WV. Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mail service Interesting, but I don't think it is true. Page Coal & Coke Company was incorporated in McDowell County by Samuel Crozer, John Crozer and Louis Page of Upland, WV in 1903. Additional shareholders were John Lincoln, Samuel Evans, and John Tierney of Elkhorn, WV and Laurence Tierney of Powhatan, WV. Each of these shareholders were industrialists and coal men. Page Coal & Coke Company leased its property from Crozer Land Association. The community of Pageton was first proposed as LePage. When the post office rejected that name, the second chioce was Pageville. When that name was rejected, the name choice became Pageton. The Crozer's and Page's of near Philadelphia were fairly closely assocated in business ventures. The Crozers and Louis Page also were the incorporators and major shareholders in the Upland Coal & Coke Company and eventually the Crozer Coal & Land Company. Alex Schust ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mail service As a postscript to the posting below I should have pointed out that the Pageton, WV, mentioned in the article as being on the Tug Fork branch of the N&W was named for William Nelson Page of Virginian Railway fame as stated in the following from Wikipedia: Pageton was named for William Nelson Page (1854-1932) a civil engineer and industrialist who lived in Ansted, where he managed many iron, coal, and railroad enterprises. William Page was the first president of The Virginian Railway Company (now a part of Norfolk Southern). William N. Page was a principal of the Page Coal and Coke Company, a coal and coking company with another operation in Page in Fayette County. He established the mining operation tipple and coking ovens at Pageton around 1907. The colliery in Page, West Virginia was the Loup Creek Colliery Company and was a completely separate entity. Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: 3N&W Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:55 PM Subject: N&W in 1910--Mail service Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 7, 1910 NEW MAIL SERVICE ------ Inaugurated on Tug Fork Branch of Norfolk and Western The Norfolk and Western has inaugurated a new mail service on the Tug Fork branch. Two mails a day now go to Anawalt and this service is greatly appreciated. The people along the Anawalt section now want an opportunity to get the train to lay over at Pageton or Anawalt at night instead of at Gary as they figure in this way they will be able to go to Welch or some other point and return the same day. An effort will also be made to get a local freight service on the line. There are eighteen or twenty mines on the Tug Fork branch and the coal companies along the line feel that enough business goes to and from these operations to warrant a local freight. It is likely that a petition will be prepared asking for such an extension of the local freight service. ------ [If there were no local freight service on Tug Fork branch how did these eighteen or so mines get the material for the tipples and mine material such as rails, cars, etc? As far as that goes how did any mines get started before the railroad reached the mine location?] Gordon Hamilton -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.26/2451 - Release Date: 10/22/09 08:51:00 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.43/2474 - Release Date: 11/01/09 07:38:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Nov 1 17:12:32 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 17:12:32 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--St. Paul Message-ID: <64BEEC70EE924969A82DAB1966588832@DellVostro> Bluefield Daily Telegraph April 23, 1910 IN CITY AND COALFIELD ------ New Station at St. Paul The Norfolk and Western has commenced the erection of the new union station at St. Paul, Va. This point will be the junction point between the Carolina, Clinchfield and Ohio and the Norfolk and Western and both roads will use and maintain the depot. ------ Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: