From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Nov 23 11:40:34 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:40:34 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Message-ID: <10BCE78316A349E3963B49F104445F34@DellVostro> Bluefield Daily Telegraph June 1, 1910 MALLET ENGINE HERE ------ Monster That Arrived Last Night Created Stir in Local Yard Last night about 7:45 o'clock engine No. 901, one of the new large Mallet engines built by the American Locomotive Company, at the Schenectady, N. Y., shops, arrived in the city. The engine pushed in a small train of empties and was driven by Engineer Charles Musser while Conductor Berger had charge of the train. The engine made quite a stir at the local yard, where the men who received their first information of the coming of the engines over a month ago in the Daily Telegraph have been watching for it every day. The weight of the engine and tender together is 533,600 pounds, while the engine itself, not including the tender, has a total weight of 373,000 pounds. It requires 9,000 gallons of water to fill the tank, which is carried to supply the engine with water. The engine has a tractive poser of 85,000 pounds which can be increased ten per cent by changing the engine into a single expansion. The total heating surface of the boiler is 4,905 square feet while it is fitted with 334 tubes, each twenty-four inches [sic., feet?]long, giving a heating surface of 4,700 square feet. The engine is named after M. Anatole Mallet, a prominent French engineer, who first developed the type of engine. The Norfolk and Western ordered five Mallet engines from the American Locomotive Company [Class X1], and five from the Baldwin Locomotive Works [Class Y1]. The engines are arriving daily and will be used between Northfork and Bluefield. ------ [I wonder why American Locomotive Co. built the X1's in Schenectady instead of in Richmond. Maybe a scheduling consideration?] Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Nov 23 14:49:27 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:49:27 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine In-Reply-To: <10BCE78316A349E3963B49F104445F34@DellVostro> References: <10BCE78316A349E3963B49F104445F34@DellVostro> Message-ID: I wonder why it was the 901. I thought the 901 was a W-2. EdKing From: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:40 AM To: 3N&W Mailing List Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Bluefield Daily Telegraph June 1, 1910 MALLET ENGINE HERE ------ Monster That Arrived Last Night Created Stir in Local Yard Last night about 7:45 o'clock engine No. 901, one of the new large Mallet engines built by the American Locomotive Company, at the Schenectady, N. Y., shops, arrived in the city. The engine pushed in a small train of empties and was driven by Engineer Charles Musser while Conductor Berger had charge of the train. The engine made quite a stir at the local yard, where the men who received their first information of the coming of the engines over a month ago in the Daily Telegraph have been watching for it every day. The weight of the engine and tender together is 533,600 pounds, while the engine itself, not including the tender, has a total weight of 373,000 pounds. It requires 9,000 gallons of water to fill the tank, which is carried to supply the engine with water. The engine has a tractive poser of 85,000 pounds which can be increased ten per cent by changing the engine into a single expansion. The total heating surface of the boiler is 4,905 square feet while it is fitted with 334 tubes, each twenty-four inches [sic., feet?]long, giving a heating surface of 4,700 square feet. The engine is named after M. Anatole Mallet, a prominent French engineer, who first developed the type of engine. The Norfolk and Western ordered five Mallet engines from the American Locomotive Company [Class X1], and five from the Baldwin Locomotive Works [Class Y1]. The engines are arriving daily and will be used between Northfork and Bluefield. ------ [I wonder why American Locomotive Co. built the X1's in Schenectady instead of in Richmond. Maybe a scheduling consideration?] Gordon Hamilton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Nov 23 14:51:57 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:51:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Paint Bank and the Potts Valley line-thanks! Message-ID: <22106686.1259005918660.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> List: Many thanks to those responding to my Potts Valley inquiry. It is indeed a neat, although short lived, branch. With the help of satellite and aerial views, Google and USGS maps online,and of course you historians, it has been interesting and fun to explore decades after being abandoned. I found out about the Waiteville station merely minutes after sending out the inquiry. (about the time that I remembered the ARROW article!) Fortunately, Google maps has ground level observation of both Paint Bank and Waiteville stations. I'm looking forward to exploring as much of this area as possible. Charlie Long -----Original Message----- >From: NW Mailing List >Sent: Nov 21, 2009 11:01 PM >To: NW Mailing List >Subject: Re: Paint Bank and the Potts Valley line > >On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Gordon wrote: >> Somewhere I have seen information that the roadbed grading was extended a >> mile or more east out of Paint Bank down Potts Creek. ?I had always >> visualized it as being a somewhat straight line extention east out of Paint >> Bank, and the DOQ terrain map to which Roger gave a link (no pun intended) >> appears to show residual evidence of such an straight extention if you click >> and drag the map, although it could be just the tail track for the wye. But, >> the DOQ terrain map also appears to show an extention of the south leg of >> the wye curving to the East. ?Indeed, if you click on "Topo" on the DOQ map >> you will see "Old RR Grade" does follow the same path. ?By clicking and >> dragging on the topo map, you can follow the "Old RR Grade" to its apparent >> end. > >Back some time ago, when the N&W Archives were still in the VT Library, I >did some pretty deep digging in the files. I dug out the notes I took from the >correspondence files on the Big Stony Railway. What I have end before there >is a resolution, but there are indications that the line extended beyond Paint >Bank -- although perhaps as a mine branch and not as part of the Potts Valley >Line. > >There are a number of memos and letters in my notes, between company >officers and the the civil engineers: > >April 12, 1909 > >Report -- Schick [the engineer in charge of the project] to Churchill >[company engineer] > >Progress as of April 1st > >"The Vaughan Construction Co. have very little work to do, they will >also finish in April. The Passing Siding and "Y" Track at Paint Bank >are completed. So also are the Passing Siding and Station Siding at >Waiteville. > >"I was with Mr. McHarg, Mr. Shuff and Mr. Vaughan of the Virginia Iron >Coal and Coke Co. on this trip. Their Company is now working a scraper >gang, building a dam for their settling basin at Paint Bank, and have >also a force on their sidings to the Tipple and Washer. > >I understand they intend going right ahead with all their outside >work. I was also told preparations were being made to open up at >Sizers, getting everything ready for a large shipment of ore. This of >course will mean extension of the present line from Paint Bank to >Sizers." > >May 3, 1909 >Memo from Maher to Johnson >Report from Churchill to Maher, April 19, abut Va. I C & C Co. >operation at Sizers, known as "Givens Bank" 5 miles below Paint Bank > >Estimated cost to extend line from Paint Bank is $111,000. >Lowmore Operation on C&O at Jordan has extensive operation to remove >silica from ore >May 8, 1909 >Memo - Schick to Churchill >"At Paint Bank, the Virginia Iron Coal & Coke Co. have a force >completing their settling basin; also a force grading team tracks from >Washer Site to Mine. Timber is all out for washer, and I am told they >will proceed this week to erect the same. I should say that it will be >sixty (60) days before these people can be ready with their settling >basis, tram tracks and washer; it will be necessary for them from now >on to get busy, and work a large force so they can take advantage of >the facilities we will offer when our track reaches their operations. > >I now understand these people are talking about putting a steam shovel >at Paint Bank. At the Given Bank at Sizers the Virginia Iron Coal & >Coke Co. have a small force driving a tunnel." > >July 7, 1909 >>From Big Stony Railway Co. Office of the President >Letter from Johnson to Maher >"Have the Potts Valley Line surveyed from Paint Bank to Givens >Opening, about six miles, and prepare an estimate at once as to the >cost of building this line. The Virginia Iron, Coal and Coke Company >owns the right of way and will arrange with us for the same." > >July 15, 1909 >Letter from Maher to Johnson >"Referring further to your letter of July 7th. >I find on taking up with the Chief Engineer the matter of the survey >from Paint Bank to Givens Opening (this latter point we have >heretofore named Sizers) that this line has already been located and >adopted down to Sizers, and the right of way secured, excepting a few >minor strips for county road changes. > >In this connection please refer to my letter of May 3rd, 1909, with >which I enclosed a copy of Mr. Churchill's letter to me of April 9th, >in which there is an estimate of the cost of the line between Paint >Bank and Sizers whereby if fencing is omitted and small trestles are >substituted for rectangular masonry, the original estimate of this 5 >mile extension could be reduced from $123,000.00 to $111,000.00. It >would therefore appear that we are in shape to go ahead with this 5 >miles extension as soon as authority therefor is given." > >That's where my notes end, so there are indications that the line may >have continued beyond Paint Bank. >Based on these reports, the Virginia Iron Coal & Coke Co. had a pretty >extensive operation right at >Paint Bank. > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlie Long >>> 1. Appears to have been a wye just past the station at Paint Bank. >>> Satellite view hints of a wye. >>> Is this as far as the Potts Valley line went? Looks like it. Were there >>> any plans to extend it on north 25 - 30 miles to Covington? > >>> 2. Were there any plans to extend it on north 25 - 30 miles to Covington? > >I can't find it in my notes, but I do remember correspondence in the file in >reference to this question. Someone asked L.E. Johnson if the N&W had >any such plans to connect to the C&O line that extended down the valley >from the north and the answer was a very firm "no." > >>> 3. Is this (Paint Bank) the only wooden (or not) two story N&W station >>> left? As you may know, it is now a bed and breakfast. > >As mentioned, the station at Waiteville was also a two-story station. I'll >dig through my slides to find photos of this building when it was a >convenience store. > >>> 4. Since the Craigs Valley line of the C&O was only 10-12 miles away in >>> Newcastle, were there any plans to connect and interchange? > >See above. > >Bruce in Blacksburg >________________________________________ >NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org >To change your subscription go to >http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list >Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at >http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Nov 23 13:47:51 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:47:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine In-Reply-To: <10BCE78316A349E3963B49F104445F34@DellVostro> Message-ID: <1288451408.5788661259002071905.JavaMail.root@sz0132a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Where does the 991 fit in the scheme of the Mallet's? I read an engineer's account that the 991 was the first Mallet in Bluefield. Kim Hensley Huntsville -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Nov 23 16:02:18 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:02:18 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine References: <10BCE78316A349E3963B49F104445F34@DellVostro> Message-ID: <86C60D0651824003A7DEC39BA07A15A9@DellVostro> Thanks to the sharp-eyed and sharp-brained out there in Mailing List land. I should have included my frequently used disclaimer about some things in the article were my best interpretation of a blurred microfilm copy of the article. The attached shows the image from which I transcribed the article, and I blithely typed "...engine No. 901...." as I saw it without any strain whatsoever on my brain to question whether that was the correct number for a Class X1 (I did change "buil" in the article to "built" in my transcription, maybe showing that my brain is not completely senile.) I hope that substituting "engine No. 991" for "engine No. 901" in the article will satisfy nit-pickers. Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 2:49 PM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine I wonder why it was the 901. I thought the 901 was a W-2. EdKing From: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:40 AM To: 3N&W Mailing List Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Bluefield Daily Telegraph June 1, 1910 MALLET ENGINE HERE ------ Monster That Arrived Last Night Created Stir in Local Yard Last night about 7:45 o'clock engine No. 901, one of the new large Mallet engines built by the American Locomotive Company, at the Schenectady, N. Y., shops, arrived in the city. The engine pushed in a small train of empties and was driven by Engineer Charles Musser while Conductor Berger had charge of the train. The engine made quite a stir at the local yard, where the men who received their first information of the coming of the engines over a month ago in the Daily Telegraph have been watching for it every day. The weight of the engine and tender together is 533,600 pounds, while the engine itself, not including the tender, has a total weight of 373,000 pounds. It requires 9,000 gallons of water to fill the tank, which is carried to supply the engine with water. The engine has a tractive poser of 85,000 pounds which can be increased ten per cent by changing the engine into a single expansion. The total heating surface of the boiler is 4,905 square feet while it is fitted with 334 tubes, each twenty-four inches [sic., feet?]long, giving a heating surface of 4,700 square feet. The engine is named after M. Anatole Mallet, a prominent French engineer, who first developed the type of engine. The Norfolk and Western ordered five Mallet engines from the American Locomotive Company [Class X1], and five from the Baldwin Locomotive Works [Class Y1]. The engines are arriving daily and will be used between Northfork and Bluefield. ------ [I wonder why American Locomotive Co. built the X1's in Schenectady instead of in Richmond. Maybe a scheduling consideration?] Gordon Hamilton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.78/2521 - Release Date: 11/23/09 02:52:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BDT Mallet 991.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 38588 bytes Desc: not available Url : From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Nov 23 16:41:21 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:41:21 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine References: <1288451408.5788661259002071905.JavaMail.root@sz0132a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <2447183519B44DB8A0534A782C2595AA@DellVostro> Kim, Of course, 991 is correct, but I'm intrigued. Where did you find the engineer's account? Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 1:47 PM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Where does the 991 fit in the scheme of the Mallet's? I read an engineer's account that the 991 was the first Mallet in Bluefield. Kim Hensley Huntsville ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.78/2521 - Release Date: 11/23/09 02:52:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Nov 23 17:03:41 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:03:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine In-Reply-To: <2447183519B44DB8A0534A782C2595AA@DellVostro> Message-ID: <687599894.5881831259013821550.JavaMail.root@sz0132a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Gordon, My great grandfather authored a couple of article's of his time on the Pocahontas as an engineer. After the 991 arrived, he was the first engineer out of the Bluefield yard to put it through its paces. He was then assigned to the 998, and had the dubious but unwanted distinction of rolling the first Mallet! Both he and the fireman jumped.? Nobody was hurt. ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" To: "NW Mailing List" Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 3:41:21 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine ? Kim, Of course, 991 is correct, but I'm intrigued.? Where did you find the engineer's account? Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 1:47 PM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Where does the 991 fit in the scheme of the Mallet's?? I read an engineer's account that the 991 was the first Mallet in Bluefield . Kim Hensley Huntsville ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List@ nwhs .org To change your subscription go to http://list. nwhs .org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list. nwhs .org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.78/2521 - Release Date: 11/23/09 02:52:00 ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List@ nwhs .org To change your subscription go to http://list. nwhs .org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list. nwhs .org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Nov 23 17:46:41 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:46:41 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine In-Reply-To: <86C60D0651824003A7DEC39BA07A15A9@DellVostro> References: <10BCE78316A349E3963B49F104445F34@DellVostro> <86C60D0651824003A7DEC39BA07A15A9@DellVostro> Message-ID: <860EA36E430A492F953C505F4E5DDC87@601ek604PC> Well, I dunno, Gordon. We're pretty nit-picky! EdKing From: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:02 PM To: NW Mailing List Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Thanks to the sharp-eyed and sharp-brained out there in Mailing List land. I should have included my frequently used disclaimer about some things in the article were my best interpretation of a blurred microfilm copy of the article. The attached shows the image from which I transcribed the article, and I blithely typed "...engine No. 901...." as I saw it without any strain whatsoever on my brain to question whether that was the correct number for a Class X1 (I did change "buil" in the article to "built" in my transcription, maybe showing that my brain is not completely senile.) I hope that substituting "engine No. 991" for "engine No. 901" in the article will satisfy nit-pickers. Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 2:49 PM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine I wonder why it was the 901. I thought the 901 was a W-2. EdKing From: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:40 AM To: 3N&W Mailing List Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Bluefield Daily Telegraph June 1, 1910 MALLET ENGINE HERE ------ Monster That Arrived Last Night Created Stir in Local Yard Last night about 7:45 o'clock engine No. 901, one of the new large Mallet engines built by the American Locomotive Company, at the Schenectady, N. Y., shops, arrived in the city. The engine pushed in a small train of empties and was driven by Engineer Charles Musser while Conductor Berger had charge of the train. The engine made quite a stir at the local yard, where the men who received their first information of the coming of the engines over a month ago in the Daily Telegraph have been watching for it every day. The weight of the engine and tender together is 533,600 pounds, while the engine itself, not including the tender, has a total weight of 373,000 pounds. It requires 9,000 gallons of water to fill the tank, which is carried to supply the engine with water. The engine has a tractive poser of 85,000 pounds which can be increased ten per cent by changing the engine into a single expansion. The total heating surface of the boiler is 4,905 square feet while it is fitted with 334 tubes, each twenty-four inches [sic., feet?]long, giving a heating surface of 4,700 square feet. The engine is named after M. Anatole Mallet, a prominent French engineer, who first developed the type of engine. The Norfolk and Western ordered five Mallet engines from the American Locomotive Company [Class X1], and five from the Baldwin Locomotive Works [Class Y1]. The engines are arriving daily and will be used between Northfork and Bluefield. ------ [I wonder why American Locomotive Co. built the X1's in Schenectady instead of in Richmond. Maybe a scheduling consideration?] Gordon Hamilton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.78/2521 - Release Date: 11/23/09 02:52:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Nov 23 19:59:06 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:59:06 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine References: <10BCE78316A349E3963B49F104445F34@DellVostro><86C60D0651824003A7DEC39BA07A15A9@DellVostro> <860EA36E430A492F953C505F4E5DDC87@601ek604PC> Message-ID: After all, it was just one digit. Two out of three ain't bad unless someone is a nit-picker, or maybe a former dispatcher. Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 5:46 PM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Well, I dunno, Gordon. We're pretty nit-picky! EdKing From: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:02 PM To: NW Mailing List Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Thanks to the sharp-eyed and sharp-brained out there in Mailing List land. I should have included my frequently used disclaimer about some things in the article were my best interpretation of a blurred microfilm copy of the article. The attached shows the image from which I transcribed the article, and I blithely typed "...engine No. 901...." as I saw it without any strain whatsoever on my brain to question whether that was the correct number for a Class X1 (I did change "buil" in the article to "built" in my transcription, maybe showing that my brain is not completely senile.) I hope that substituting "engine No. 991" for "engine No. 901" in the article will satisfy nit-pickers. Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 2:49 PM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine I wonder why it was the 901. I thought the 901 was a W-2. EdKing From: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:40 AM To: 3N&W Mailing List Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Bluefield Daily Telegraph June 1, 1910 MALLET ENGINE HERE ------ Monster That Arrived Last Night Created Stir in Local Yard Last night about 7:45 o'clock engine No. 901, one of the new large Mallet engines built by the American Locomotive Company, at the Schenectady, N. Y., shops, arrived in the city. The engine pushed in a small train of empties and was driven by Engineer Charles Musser while Conductor Berger had charge of the train. The engine made quite a stir at the local yard, where the men who received their first information of the coming of the engines over a month ago in the Daily Telegraph have been watching for it every day. The weight of the engine and tender together is 533,600 pounds, while the engine itself, not including the tender, has a total weight of 373,000 pounds. It requires 9,000 gallons of water to fill the tank, which is carried to supply the engine with water. The engine has a tractive poser of 85,000 pounds which can be increased ten per cent by changing the engine into a single expansion. The total heating surface of the boiler is 4,905 square feet while it is fitted with 334 tubes, each twenty-four inches [sic., feet?]long, giving a heating surface of 4,700 square feet. The engine is named after M. Anatole Mallet, a prominent French engineer, who first developed the type of engine. The Norfolk and Western ordered five Mallet engines from the American Locomotive Company [Class X1], and five from the Baldwin Locomotive Works [Class Y1]. The engines are arriving daily and will be used between Northfork and Bluefield. ------ [I wonder why American Locomotive Co. built the X1's in Schenectady instead of in Richmond. Maybe a scheduling consideration?] Gordon Hamilton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.78/2521 - Release Date: 11/23/09 02:52:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.78/2521 - Release Date: 11/23/09 02:52:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Nov 23 20:01:42 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:01:42 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine References: <687599894.5881831259013821550.JavaMail.root@sz0132a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <0F622AD300A149E4A97070BB1EE391D4@Gene> ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Gordon, My great grandfather authored a couple of article's of his time on the Pocahontas as an engineer. After the 991 arrived, he was the first engineer out of the Bluefield yard to put it through its paces. He was then assigned to the 998, and had the dubious but unwanted distinction of rolling the first Mallet! Both he and the fireman jumped. Nobody was hurt. Kim; If you don't mind telling me, what was your Great Grandfathers name? I have my Father's 1942 seniority roster and time book for the Pocohontas division and Bluefield yard that includes employ hire and promotion that dates back to 1893. Also in his hand writing are listed the crew members when he was out on the road. Thank you; Gene Arnold Gloucester, Va. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Mon Nov 23 22:21:12 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:21:12 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine References: <687599894.5881831259013821550.JavaMail.root@sz0132a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <94C8A1B86AAE4EE095B364B8DBBBDF91@DellVostro> Kim, Sounds as though your great grandfather must have been Alfred Hock, a man I once met when I was a child and he was an old man. Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Gordon, My great grandfather authored a couple of article's of his time on the Pocahontas as an engineer. After the 991 arrived, he was the first engineer out of the Bluefield yard to put it through its paces. He was then assigned to the 998, and had the dubious but unwanted distinction of rolling the first Mallet! Both he and the fireman jumped. Nobody was hurt. ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" To: "NW Mailing List" Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 3:41:21 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine ? Kim, Of course, 991 is correct, but I'm intrigued. Where did you find the engineer's account? Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 1:47 PM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Where does the 991 fit in the scheme of the Mallet's? I read an engineer's account that the 991 was the first Mallet in Bluefield. Kim Hensley Huntsville ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.78/2521 - Release Date: 11/23/09 02:52:00 ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.78/2521 - Release Date: 11/23/09 02:52:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Nov 24 04:28:23 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:28:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine In-Reply-To: <0F622AD300A149E4A97070BB1EE391D4@Gene> Message-ID: <781916624.6073911259054903277.JavaMail.root@sz0132a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Alfred Hock. He retired December 1, 1941. ----- Original Message ----- ? Kim; If you don't mind telling me, what was your Great Grandfathers name? I have my Father's 1942 seniority roster and time book for the Pocohontas division and Bluefield yard that includes employ hire and promotion that dates back to 1893. Also in his hand writing are listed the crew members when he was out on the road. Thank you; Gene Arnold Gloucester, Va. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Nov 24 09:48:27 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:48:27 GMT Subject: Dwarf Signal Light Bulbs Message-ID: <20091124.094827.23312.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> Thanks to all those who responded to my question about replacement bulbs for a Union dwarf signal. As suggested by Larry S., Larry Evans and Bob McKell, an automotive backup bulb does the job just fine and at a much cheaper cost than the "real thing". Dave Moorehead ____________________________________________________________ Save $10 on Flowers and Gifts! Shop now at www.ftd.com/16714 http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=u5QFV-hLtqLXRBaWt35OegAAJz0EfYvq2cf24k6W9nXC_g23AAIAAAAUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVBAAAAABodHRwOi8vd3d3LmZ0ZC5jb20vMTY3MTQ= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Nov 24 09:39:39 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:39:39 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine In-Reply-To: <94C8A1B86AAE4EE095B364B8DBBBDF91@DellVostro> References: <687599894.5881831259013821550.JavaMail.root@sz0132a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <94C8A1B86AAE4EE095B364B8DBBBDF91@DellVostro> Message-ID: <8CC3B2B16676AC8-37F0-A28E@webmail-m059.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 10:21 pm Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Alfred Hock wrote several articles in Railroad Magazine during the 40's. Harry Bundy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Nov 24 09:52:13 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:52:13 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1938--Radford In-Reply-To: <932E701176B44FA09CF1A7A6B917943A@DellVostro> References: <932E701176B44FA09CF1A7A6B917943A@DellVostro> Message-ID: <8CC3B2CD7E06346-37F0-A690@webmail-m059.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: NW Mailing List To: 3N&W Mailing List Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2009 7:49 pm Subject: N&W in 1938--Radford Norfolk and Western Magazine November 1938 Name of Station at Radford Changed for Third Time Just recently the State Corporation Commission granted the request of the N. & W. Railway to change the name of the East Ward Station to Radford. This will bring the name of the railway station into conformity with the post office organization. The two post offices were consolidated June 1. So it goes that this is the third name for this station: Central Depot, East Radford and Radford. At the time the station was located here it was know as station 301, being the 301st station west of Norfolk on the railroad. Gordon Hamilton Something's not correct here. Based on the location of the "0" Mile Post which I believe was on Water Street at Norfolk, there'd be a station for every mile of track because Radford was roughly 300 miles from Norfolk. For example, from Juniper (in the Dismal Swamp) to Suffolk, there's 6.09 miles without a station. Harry Bundy, Dispatcher (for one day) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Nov 24 11:55:19 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:55:19 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1938--Radford References: <932E701176B44FA09CF1A7A6B917943A@DellVostro> <8CC3B2CD7E06346-37F0-A690@webmail-m059.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <47E166C3396342B3B226FA21CAF169C2@lewisdl0ls5whv> Harry, One thing to consider is does this also include stations along the branch lines to Durham, Winston Salem, Shenandoah Valley, etc. Also don't know if they are consecutively numbered or are of a total number "west of Norfolk". One thing the magazine article does not bring out is that Radford had two railway stations until 1938: one was named Radford [actually West Radford], and the other was East Radford. In 1938 the old Radford Station was torn down and the article reflects that the old East Radford station simply became RADFORD after that. Bud Jeffries ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:52 AM Subject: Re: N&W in 1938--Radford -----Original Message----- From: NW Mailing List To: 3N&W Mailing List Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2009 7:49 pm Subject: N&W in 1938--Radford Norfolk and Western Magazine November 1938 Name of Station at Radford Changed for Third Time Just recently the State Corporation Commission granted the request of the N. & W. Railway to change the name of the East Ward Station to Radford. This will bring the name of the railway station into conformity with the post office organization. The two post offices were consolidated June 1. So it goes that this is the third name for this station: Central Depot, East Radford and Radford. At the time the station was located here it was know as station 301, being the 301st station west of Norfolk on the railroad. Gordon Hamilton Something's not correct here. Based on the location of the "0" Mile Post which I believe was on Water Street at Norfolk, there'd be a station for every mile oftrack because Radford was roughly 300 miles from Norfolk. For example, fromJuniper (in the Dismal Swamp) to Suffolk, there's 6.09 miles without a station. Harry Bundy, Dispatcher (for one day) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Nov 24 16:56:27 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:56:27 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Coke cars Message-ID: Bluefield Daily Telegraph June 2, 1910 STEEL COKE CARS ------ Norfolk and Western Places Order For Five Hundred of 100,000 Pounds Capacity In pursuance of a policy, adopted and followed steadily for years, the Norfolk and Western has awarded to the Pullman Company, of Pullman, Ill., a contract for building at once five hundred solid steel coke cars of 100,000 pounds capacity each. The Norfolk and Western has now in service a large number of coke cars, but they have much lumber in their make up, the flooring and sides being principally of wood, and this will be done away with entirely in the new stock. Coke is very light as compared with coal and the car that can contain 100,000 pounds of it approaches a passenger coach in size. The order given the Pullman company calls for the very best material and the highest class of construction. With its immense Mallet engine and thousands of new freight cars delivered, building, and ordered, the Norfolk and Western is taking care of its equipment in a most liberal manner. ------ Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Nov 24 17:51:16 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:51:16 -0500 Subject: piggyback question Message-ID: I passed the information about piggyback service in the steam era to another railfan who told me the only other photos from the period he had seen were NKP Berkshires pulling TOFC consists. He asked me if N&W had a name for their trailer on flatcar service. Can anyone answer this question? Southern originally called theirs COMAR - for COntainerized Motor and Rail. Seaboard was Razorback. Some others were TrucTrain for Pennsy, FlexiVan for NYC. I think B&O was TOFCEE. --Rick Morrison -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Nov 24 21:09:22 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:09:22 -0500 Subject: piggyback question References: Message-ID: <1750160F012246C595E893B9242565E6@DellVostro> N&W Magazine article titles in the NWHS online Archives database confirm what I remember, viz., that the N&W used the same name as the PRR, i.e., TrucTrain. The article titles were: Vol. 33 No. 11, Oct. 1955, "N&W to Inaugurate Service November 14, TrucTrain" and Vol. 33 No. 12, Dec. 1955, "N&W Launches TrucTrain Service." Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:51 PM Subject: piggyback question I passed the information about piggyback service in the steam era to another railfan who told me the only other photos from the period he had seen were NKP Berkshires pulling TOFC consists. He asked me if N&W had a name for their trailer on flatcar service. Can anyone answer this question? Southern originally called theirs COMAR - for COntainerized Motor and Rail. Seaboard was Razorback. Some others were TrucTrain for Pennsy, FlexiVan for NYC. I think B&O was TOFCEE. --Rick Morrison ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.81/2524 - Release Date: 11/24/09 14:37:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Nov 24 22:57:07 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:57:07 -0500 Subject: Dwarf Signal Light Bulbs Message-ID: <20091125035707.DE76Z.103206.root@cdptpa-web26-z02> I was told a story by a Conrail signal maintainer who was also a Penn Central maintainer that money got so tight on PC that they were robbing the back up lamps out of all of the company trucks to use in signals. They only put bulbs in the outer lights and would omit the center bulbs, if necessary. Larry S. N&W Signal Dept. From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Tue Nov 24 22:48:45 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:48:45 -0500 Subject: Radford 301 Station Message-ID: <20091125034845.K3D55.103116.root@cdptpa-web26-z02> The stations were probably numbered according to the mile post. The Radford station was probably at the N301 mile post. A lot of N&W railroad buildings were numbered this way. The Scioto Division superintendents house on Waller Street in Portsmouth had a zinc tag with the mile post building number over the front door. Most permanent structures had such a tag near the main entry. Larry S. N&W Signal Dept. From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 07:07:46 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:07:46 -0500 Subject: Flattop Yards Message-ID: Lets go back to Flattop yards (just west of Bluefield) in the early 1950's: What facilities or buildings were located there? Since this was in double track territory, is it safe to assume that the westbound main was located with the eastbound main on one side and the Bluestone River on the other side? Did the main lines both lay on the same side of the yard or were they spaced apart with the yard in between? Do we have a drawing or sketch showing how was the yard laid out? I gather that it was _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 09:41:28 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:41:28 -0500 Subject: Radford 301 Station In-Reply-To: <20091125034845.K3D55.103116.root@cdptpa-web26-z02> References: <20091125034845.K3D55.103116.root@cdptpa-web26-z02> Message-ID: <8CC3BF481CCE91E-4954-F10A@webmail-m092.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:48 pm Subject: Radford 301 Station The stations were probably numbered according to the mile post. The Radford tation was probably at the N301 mile post. A lot of N&W railroad buildings were umbered this way. The Scioto Division superintendents house on Waller Street in ortsmouth had a zinc tag with the mile post building number over the front oor. Most permanent structures had such a tag near the main entry. Larry S. &W Signal Dept. aving consulted N&W's 1972 List of Stations and Sidings, there were 327 entries if the Durham District, Shonondoah Division and others are included. If state lines, Hyco Spur, and industrial sidings constructed after 1944 are excluded, it comes very close to 301. The Accounting Department used station NUMBERS - each station was assigned a number- kinda like USPS's zippity-doo-dah code. Ex: Roanoke is 10254 (254 mi. from Norfolk). I though maybe Radford's station # would be 10301, but it's 15555. If the station is off the main line, the first 2 digits change. Harry Bundy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 09:53:28 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:53:28 -0500 Subject: Flattop Yards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It seems that my msg got truncated - I gather that it was a marshalling point for coal loads going out and empties coming back in for distribution to the mines. What else was it used for? Dave Willis (blt 1962, c/n 4) To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org; nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org Subject: Flattop Yards Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:07:46 -0500 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Lets go back to Flattop yards (just west of Bluefield) in the early 1950's: What facilities or buildings were located there? Since this was in double track territory, is it safe to assume that the westbound main was located with the eastbound main on one side and the Bluestone River on the other side? Did the main lines both lay on the same side of the yard or were they spaced apart with the yard in between? Do we have a drawing or sketch showing how was the yard laid out? I gather that it was Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 10:08:38 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:08:38 -0500 Subject: Radford 301 Station References: <20091125034845.K3D55.103116.root@cdptpa-web26-z02> Message-ID: The East Radford station, renamed Radford in 1938, is located between mile posts N300 and N301. Thanks, Bud Jeffries ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:48 PM Subject: Radford 301 Station > The stations were probably numbered according to the mile post. The > Radford station was probably at the N301 mile post. A lot of N&W railroad > buildings were numbered this way. The Scioto Division superintendents > house on Waller Street in Portsmouth had a zinc tag with the mile post > building number over the front door. Most permanent structures had such a > tag near the main entry. > > Larry S. > N&W Signal Dept. > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 10:15:13 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:15:13 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine References: <781916624.6073911259054903277.JavaMail.root@sz0132a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <9D70F47D821747928BE30D580D323074@Gene> Mr. A Hock is recorded in my roster book as having been hired 3 September, 1896. I'm sure that my Dad, ( Fireman T.C. Arnold Sr. Hired 7/29/26, deceased 12/17/50) worked with him from time to time. I spent many happy hours standing on the Bluefield street corners, call office, and round house listening to Railroad Jargon. These guys were my heroes, which included a hobo introduced to me as "Uncle Sam" who was allowed, when in town, to stay in Mr. Dailey's garage on Giles Street.. Thanks again; Gene A. ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 4:28 AM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Alfred Hock. He retired December 1, 1941. ----- Original Message ----- ? Kim; If you don't mind telling me, what was your Great Grandfathers name? I have my Father's 1942 seniority roster and time book for the Pocohontas division and Bluefield yard that includes employ hire and promotion that dates back to 1893. Also in his hand writing are listed the crew members when he was out on the road. Thank you; Gene Arnold Gloucester, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 10:25:10 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:25:10 -0500 Subject: Dwarf Signal Light Bulbs In-Reply-To: <20091125035707.DE76Z.103206.root@cdptpa-web26-z02> References: <20091125035707.DE76Z.103206.root@cdptpa-web26-z02> Message-ID: <04F1DF013003034193915EE0CCEA9A910131E1D69B@SWEC9924.w-intra.net> I a similar type situation that likewise shows the horror of PC's financial condition, while shooting trains on Horseshoe curve several years ago I had pleasure of conversing with an retired individual who had been in management with NYC/PC/CR. In discussing the poor mainline track conditions (PC mainline track conditions were atrocious) that were so widespread during the PC era he told of going into railroad yards and tearing up good but unneeded trackage to salvage good crossties so the Company could do essential mainline crosstie replacement . PC couldn't even afford to buy new crossties! Ed Painter - Narrows, VA - Currently living in Russellville, AR (also in NE Ohio for 7 years during the PC and early CR era) -----Original Message----- From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:57 PM To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Subject: Re: Dwarf Signal Light Bulbs I was told a story by a Conrail signal maintainer who was also a Penn Central maintainer that money got so tight on PC that they were robbing the back up lamps out of all of the company trucks to use in signals. They only put bulbs in the outer lights and would omit the center bulbs, if necessary. Larry S. N&W Signal Dept. ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 10:33:47 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:33:47 -0500 Subject: piggyback question References: <1750160F012246C595E893B9242565E6@DellVostro> Message-ID: Just to ad a few things to Gordon's answer. Railway Age Oct and Dec 1955 reports. This was the first interline movement of common carrier trailers by railroads. And was a joint N&W-PRR operation. coordinated by Rail-Trailer Company , Chicago. Initially the N&W was to move these cars in regular freights. With plans for solid trains if they had the volume. Larry Evans ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:09 PM Subject: Re: piggyback question N&W Magazine article titles in the NWHS online Archives database confirm what I remember, viz., that the N&W used the same name as the PRR, i.e., TrucTrain. The article titles were: Vol. 33 No. 11, Oct. 1955, "N&W to Inaugurate Service November 14, TrucTrain" and Vol. 33 No. 12, Dec. 1955, "N&W Launches TrucTrain Service." Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:51 PM Subject: piggyback question I passed the information about piggyback service in the steam era to another railfan who told me the only other photos from the period he had seen were NKP Berkshires pulling TOFC consists. He asked me if N&W had a name for their trailer on flatcar service. Can anyone answer this question? Southern originally called theirs COMAR - for COntainerized Motor and Rail. Seaboard was Razorback. Some others were TrucTrain for Pennsy, FlexiVan for NYC. I think B&O was TOFCEE. --Rick Morrison ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.81/2524 - Release Date: 11/24/09 14:37:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 12:09:26 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:09:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine In-Reply-To: <377857892.6582201259168852130.JavaMail.root@sz0132a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1782965966.6582941259168966718.JavaMail.root@sz0132a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Gene, Thank you for the info!? I'm sure they crossed paths!? As Harry pointed out, Alfred Hock wrote several articles for Railroad Magazine. We have copies of those issues. ...Kim ----- Original Message ----- ? Mr. A Hock is recorded in my roster book as having been hired 3 September, 1896. I'm sure that my Dad, ( Fireman T.C. Arnold Sr. Hired 7/29/26, deceased 12/17/50) worked with him from time to time. I spent many happy hours standing on the Bluefield street corners, call office, and round house?listening to Railroad Jargon. These guys were my heroes, which included a hobo introduced to me as "Uncle Sam" who was allowed, when in town, to stay in Mr. Dailey's garage on Giles Street.. Thanks again; Gene A. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 12:51:14 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 12:51:14 -0500 Subject: Dwarf Signal Light Bulbs? PC finances References: <20091125035707.DE76Z.103206.root@cdptpa-web26-z02> <04F1DF013003034193915EE0CCEA9A910131E1D69B@SWEC9924.w-intra.net> Message-ID: <16DC69E5F7BF4BB19D34BD969C693A7E@YOUR6D7EAC4F7F> Here is a movie that PC made, to show congress, just how bad the situation was. http://vodpod.com/watch/1222140-penn-central-1974-movie-used-to-convince-congress-to-provide-loans-to-bankrupt-railroad Thier is some amazingly bad track in that footage. Andy Jennings ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" To: "'NW Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:25 AM Subject: RE: Dwarf Signal Light Bulbs >I a similar type situation that likewise shows the horror of PC's financial >condition, while shooting trains on Horseshoe curve several years ago I had >pleasure of conversing with an retired individual who had been in >management with NYC/PC/CR. In discussing the poor mainline track >conditions (PC mainline track conditions were atrocious) that were so >widespread during the PC era he told of going into railroad yards and >tearing up good but unneeded trackage to salvage good crossties so the >Company could do essential mainline crosstie replacement . PC couldn't >even afford to buy new crossties! > > Ed Painter - Narrows, VA - Currently living in Russellville, AR (also in > NE Ohio for 7 years during the PC and early CR era) > > -----Original Message----- > From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org > [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:57 PM > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org > Subject: Re: Dwarf Signal Light Bulbs > > I was told a story by a Conrail signal maintainer who was also a Penn > Central maintainer that money got so tight on PC that they were robbing > the back up lamps out of all of the company trucks to use in signals. They > only put bulbs in the outer lights and would omit the center bulbs, if > necessary. > > Larry S. > N&W Signal Dept. > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 14:49:13 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:49:13 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--New engine Message-ID: Bluefield Daily Telegraph June 2, 1910 NEW ENGINE IN SERVICE ------ Big Mallet Makes Three Trips to Flat Top Yard and Return Yesterday the Mallet engine No. 991, was put into actual service. The double engine made three trips between this city and Flat Top Yards bringing in 1,750 tons on two trips while the third time it pulled 1,950 tons. The actual tonnage for the last trip was sixty-three cars making a total of 2,860 tons. The Mallet had a class M engine as a lead and easily demonstrated that it could do all that is claimed for it. Today the big fellow will be given a chance at 2,000 tons and will no doubt make good. The railroad people claim that the engine can haul ?,000 tons between this city and Flat Top. The grade is slightly under one per cent. Road Foreman of Engines Woolwine believes that in addition to ability to pull, the engine can develop a speed of thirty-five miles per hour, but it is not likely that this test will be given it. It is expected that seven of the engines will be in this city by the end of the week. As has been announced they will work between Bluefield and Northfork. In the course of time it is likely that they will also be put in use between Vivian or Tug and Williamson. This is a matter for the future and will not be attempted until all of the new track has had a chance to settle. ------ [Some proper names and/or numbers were blurred on the microfilm. The best interpretations are shown. I don't understand why there are differing tonnages for the third and the last trips. With only three trips, the third one would be the last one.] Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 15:17:26 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:17:26 -0500 Subject: Flat Top Yard References: Message-ID: <001601ca6e0c$4f083000$e430fea9@lmnewton> Flat Top (2 words) Yard in the 1950s straddled the Virginia-West Virginia state line. It consisted of 4 tracks that lay between the eastbound and westbound main lines. At the west end of the yard, the 4 tracks connected to a "throat" track which in turn connected to both the eastbound and westbound mains. In other words, the 4 yard tracks could be reached from either main track. At the east end of the yard, the track arrangement was such that all 4 tracks could be reached from the eastbound main, but only the 2 northernmost racks could be reached directly from the westbound main. Near the middle of the yard, just west of the state line, a switch connected the westbound main line to the west end of 2 parallel spur tracks. Just east of the state line, a switch connected the eastbound main line to the east end of a spur track. A water tank was located on the south side of the tracks between the mainline switch at the east end of the yard and Bridge #843 over the Bluestone River. Standpipes (sometimes called water columns) were located, one on the south side of the eastbound main and the other on the north side of the westbound main. I do not recall for sure, but there may have been some MofW tool houses along the south side of the yard near the middle. Mine shifters off the Bluestone Branch would set off their westbound loads at Flat Top to be picked up by through crews out of Bluefield en route to Williamson. In addition, they would sometimes set off their east loads at Flat Top to be picked up by eastbound Elkhorn Turns that would "fill out" there. On some occasions, empties might have been set off there. Louis Newton ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:03 PM Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 49, Issue 47 > Send NW-Mailing-List mailing list submissions to > nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/nw-mailing-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nw-mailing-list-owner at nwhs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of NW-Mailing-List digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: Flattop Yards (NW Mailing List) > 2. Re: Radford 301 Station (NW Mailing List) > 3. Re: Radford 301 Station (NW Mailing List) > 4. Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine (NW Mailing List) > 5. RE: Dwarf Signal Light Bulbs (NW Mailing List) > 6. Re: piggyback question (NW Mailing List) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:53:28 -0500 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: RE: Flattop Yards > To: Norfolk Western Mailing List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > It seems that my msg got truncated - > > > > I gather that it was a marshalling point for coal loads going out and > empties coming back in for distribution to the mines. What else was it > used for? > > > > Dave Willis > > (blt 1962, c/n 4) > > > > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org; nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org > Subject: Flattop Yards > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:07:46 -0500 > From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org > > > > > Lets go back to Flattop yards (just west of Bluefield) in the early > 1950's: > > What facilities or buildings were located there? > Since this was in double track territory, is it safe to assume that the > westbound main was located with the eastbound main on one side and the > Bluestone River on the other side? > Did the main lines both lay on the same side of the yard or were they > spaced apart with the yard in between? > Do we have a drawing or sketch showing how was the yard laid out? > I gather that it was > > > > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:41:28 -0500 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: Re: Radford 301 Station > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org > Message-ID: <8CC3BF481CCE91E-4954-F10A at webmail-m092.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: NW Mailing List > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org > Sent: Tue, Nov 24, 2009 10:48 pm > Subject: Radford 301 Station > > > The stations were probably numbered according to the mile post. The > Radford > tation was probably at the N301 mile post. A lot of N&W railroad buildings > were > umbered this way. The Scioto Division superintendents house on Waller > Street in > ortsmouth had a zinc tag with the mile post building number over the front > oor. Most permanent structures had such a tag near the main entry. > Larry S. > &W Signal Dept. > aving consulted N&W's 1972 List of Stations and Sidings, there were 327 > entries if the Durham District, Shonondoah Division and others are > included. If state lines, Hyco Spur, and industrial sidings constructed > after 1944 are excluded, it comes very close to 301. The Accounting > Department used station NUMBERS - each station was assigned a number- > kinda like USPS's zippity-doo-dah code. Ex: Roanoke is 10254 (254 mi. > from Norfolk). I though maybe Radford's station # would be 10301, but > it's 15555. If the station is off the main line, the first 2 digits > change. > Harry Bundy > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:08:38 -0500 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: Re: Radford 301 Station > To: "NW Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > The East Radford station, renamed Radford in 1938, is located between mile > posts N300 and N301. Thanks, > > Bud Jeffries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "NW Mailing List" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:48 PM > Subject: Radford 301 Station > > >> The stations were probably numbered according to the mile post. The >> Radford station was probably at the N301 mile post. A lot of N&W railroad >> buildings were numbered this way. The Scioto Division superintendents >> house on Waller Street in Portsmouth had a zinc tag with the mile post >> building number over the front door. Most permanent structures had such a >> tag near the main entry. >> >> Larry S. >> N&W Signal Dept. >> ________________________________________ >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org >> To change your subscription go to >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:15:13 -0500 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine > To: "NW Mailing List" > Message-ID: <9D70F47D821747928BE30D580D323074 at Gene> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Mr. A Hock is recorded in my roster book as having been hired 3 September, > 1896. I'm sure that my Dad, ( Fireman T.C. Arnold Sr. Hired 7/29/26, > deceased 12/17/50) > worked with him from time to time. I spent many happy hours standing on > the Bluefield street corners, call office, and round house listening to > Railroad Jargon. These guys were my heroes, which included a hobo > introduced to me as "Uncle Sam" who was allowed, when in town, to stay in > Mr. Dailey's garage on Giles Street.. > Thanks again; > Gene A. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: NW Mailing List > To: NW Mailing List > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 4:28 AM > Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine > > > Alfred Hock. He retired December 1, 1941. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > ? > > > > Kim; > > If you don't mind telling me, what was your Great Grandfathers name? > > I have my Father's 1942 seniority roster and time book for the > Pocohontas division and Bluefield yard that includes employ hire and > promotion that dates back to 1893. Also in his hand writing are listed the > crew members when he was out on the road. > > > > Thank you; > > Gene Arnold > > Gloucester, Va. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:25:10 -0500 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: RE: Dwarf Signal Light Bulbs > To: 'NW Mailing List' > Message-ID: > <04F1DF013003034193915EE0CCEA9A910131E1D69B at SWEC9924.w-intra.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I a similar type situation that likewise shows the horror of PC's > financial condition, while shooting trains on Horseshoe curve several > years ago I had pleasure of conversing with an retired individual who had > been in management with NYC/PC/CR. In discussing the poor mainline track > conditions (PC mainline track conditions were atrocious) that were so > widespread during the PC era he told of going into railroad yards and > tearing up good but unneeded trackage to salvage good crossties so the > Company could do essential mainline crosstie replacement . PC couldn't > even afford to buy new crossties! > > Ed Painter - Narrows, VA - Currently living in Russellville, AR (also in > NE Ohio for 7 years during the PC and early CR era) > > -----Original Message----- > From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org > [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:57 PM > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org > Subject: Re: Dwarf Signal Light Bulbs > > I was told a story by a Conrail signal maintainer who was also a Penn > Central maintainer that money got so tight on PC that they were robbing > the back up lamps out of all of the company trucks to use in signals. They > only put bulbs in the outer lights and would omit the center bulbs, if > necessary. > > Larry S. > N&W Signal Dept. > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:33:47 -0500 > From: NW Mailing List > Subject: Re: piggyback question > To: "NW Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Just to ad a few things to Gordon's answer. Railway Age Oct and Dec 1955 > reports. This > was the first interline movement of common carrier trailers by railroads. > And was a joint N&W-PRR > operation. coordinated by Rail-Trailer Company , Chicago. Initially the > N&W was to move these > cars in regular freights. With plans for solid trains if they had the > volume. > > Larry Evans > ----- Original Message ----- > From: NW Mailing List > To: NW Mailing List > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:09 PM > Subject: Re: piggyback question > > > N&W Magazine article titles in the NWHS online Archives database confirm > what I remember, viz., that the N&W used the same name as the PRR, i.e., > TrucTrain. The article titles were: Vol. 33 No. 11, Oct. 1955, "N&W to > Inaugurate Service November 14, TrucTrain" and Vol. 33 No. 12, Dec. 1955, > "N&W Launches TrucTrain Service." > > Gordon Hamilton > ----- Original Message ----- > From: NW Mailing List > To: NW Mailing List > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:51 PM > Subject: piggyback question > > > I passed the information about piggyback service in the steam era to > another railfan who told me the only other photos from the period he had > seen were NKP Berkshires pulling TOFC consists. He asked me if N&W had a > name for their trailer on flatcar service. Can anyone answer this > question? > > Southern originally called theirs COMAR - for COntainerized Motor and > Rail. Seaboard was Razorback. Some others were TrucTrain for Pennsy, > FlexiVan for NYC. I think B&O was TOFCEE. > > --Rick Morrison > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.81/2524 - Release Date: > 11/24/09 14:37:00 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > > End of NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 49, Issue 47 > *********************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.82/2525 - Release Date: 11/25/09 07:31:00 From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 16:07:03 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:07:03 -0500 Subject: Next Archives session ? Message-ID: <540e48700911251307l68cc65d1i854548fc5abe99a7@mail.gmail.com> Is the next N&W HS Archives session on December 10-11-12? Just checking and thanks. From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 20:57:30 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:57:30 -0500 Subject: FW: Fantastic Night Shots of N&W Steam Message-ID: <20091126015736.MUVH1916.eastrmmtao106.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 18:28:36 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:28:36 -0500 Subject: Flattop Yards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20091125232836.SEGY8.10813.root@cdptpa-web06-z01> > Dave Willis > > (blt 1962, c/n 4) ROTFLOL Larry S. N&W Signal Maintainer (blt 1961, c/n 1) From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Wed Nov 25 20:03:46 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:03:46 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine References: <687599894.5881831259013821550.JavaMail.root@sz0132a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <0F622AD300A149E4A97070BB1EE391D4@Gene> Message-ID: <1C4995523F6146BAB2D5256470B4A362@StudyComputer> Gene Do you have Crittle Leabron Steele listed in your Father's 1942 seniority roster? Larry Evans Kenova, WV ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Gordon, My great grandfather authored a couple of article's of his time on the Pocahontas as an engineer. After the 991 arrived, he was the first engineer out of the Bluefield yard to put it through its paces. He was then assigned to the 998, and had the dubious but unwanted distinction of rolling the first Mallet! Both he and the fireman jumped. Nobody was hurt. Kim; If you don't mind telling me, what was your Great Grandfathers name? I have my Father's 1942 seniority roster and time book for the Pocohontas division and Bluefield yard that includes employ hire and promotion that dates back to 1893. Also in his hand writing are listed the crew members when he was out on the road. Thank you; Gene Arnold Gloucester, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Nov 26 06:37:04 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 06:37:04 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine References: <687599894.5881831259013821550.JavaMail.root@sz0132a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><0F622AD300A149E4A97070BB1EE391D4@Gene> <1C4995523F6146BAB2D5256470B4A362@StudyComputer> Message-ID: <4E1FBA0994D04DFDA739C4EA1F21F508@Gene> Good morning Larry; There are two listings; Enginemen: C.L. Steele Hire date.. 7/3/18 J.B. Steele " " .. 11/22/26 Dad had a register on 31 Jan. 1941 for P.S. (I assume that meant passenger service), engine # 1363, report time 8:45 pm, Engineer Steel ( no initials). There are only 2 hrs 10 min work time recorded. A short run. Must have been an extra train. Thank you for asking; Gene Arnold Gloucester, Va. ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:03 PM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Gene Do you have Crittle Leabron Steele listed in your Father's 1942 seniority roster? Larry Evans Kenova, WV -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Nov 26 08:52:48 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:52:48 -0500 Subject: "Taking Twenty" with the Virginian Brethren Message-ID: <4B0E8830.90202@vt.edu> Last night, on the eve of Thanksgiving this year, I had the pleasure of "Takin' Twenty" with 8 of the Brethren and Friends of the Virginian Railway. We signed a sympathy card for Ken Miller, Historian and Past President of the Roanoke Chapter NRHS, who lost his dad, Elbert Miller, last Sunday. Elbert, who turned 90 in June, was a brakeman on the N&W's Salem Shifter and Radford Division, and several of the Brethren knew him. At the end of Elbert's funeral on Tuesday, the sound of a lonesome whistle and steam locomotive seem to stop as the pall bearers prepared to take him out, and continued sounding those familiar hisses, moans, and forlorn blasts as Elbert was on his way on the westbound... The ebay report this time includes the following Virginian Railway items: slides of Squareheads #109 and #119 for $7.98; slide of VGN hopper car #1045 for $5.55; slide of EL-2B #125 for $5.24; slide of 2-6-6-6-6 #905 for $28.99; 1923 VGN Timetable for $24.99; 1956 VGN Timetable for $19,99; 1926 VGN Pass for $14.24 and a 1936 VGN Safety Rule Book for $19.99. Several weeks ago Aubrey Wiley teased us with a question about a "second Virginian Boat" (other than the WR Coe tugboat). It was a small row boat used by VGN surveyors at Sewells Point. I suspected that our own Dewey Houch, who started as a VGN Surveyor there, may know something about this boat. He did indeed! Dewey told me that "yes the VGN provided them a boat with oars but the job to measure the depths of the water near the coal piers required about three men on board and a motor to move it in a straight line. Dewey said that the surveyors actually took up a collection and bought a motor for the small boat. He said they used a chain that was marked off in feet with a spool on the end that would indicate then they "hit bottom". Two surveyors on either side of the channel would mark their indicated depth and use a transit to read the angle and therefore plot or map the channel's bottom. Dewey said there were no radios. Communication was by hand signals or "just yelling" and they took a depth every 50 feet. He remembered repeating this mapping about every 6 months so the dredges could keep the water deep enough for the collier ships to leave the pier full of coal. I gave the Brethren a brand new flyer about our part of Virginia being named "Virginia's Rail Heritage Region" by our General Assembly. This will allow signs to be placed on Federal and State highways and hopefully will lure more tourists to our area to observe our rail history and visit our museums. Jeff Sanders told the news people at the press conference about the over 1300 people who recently rode our fall excursion trains coming from all over the country, and got the best response from the audience. This designation should also help us when we get the VGN Station and Depot "up and running" in Roanoke. To get more information about this go to: www.varailheritage.org Landon Gregory was about half an hour late for the meeting and when asked why, he responded "There are 28 traffic lights between here and the Parkway where I live, and 27 of 'um were red". The best "slip of the tongue" of the night was when VGN hogger Raymond East was asked what he wanted to drink by a "rookie waiter". Raymond responded without a hitch: "Diet Coffee". He meant to say "decaf" but the Brethren liked his answer better. In our discussion last night someone brought up that earlier this month, the State of Virginia executed a convicted murderer at the State Prison in Jarrett. This prompted Landon to recall that Walter Grigg, whose father was VGN agent at nearby Adsit grew up on the very land that is now the prison. The execution was unusual because the condemned man chose electrocution instead of death by lethal injection. Now in Virginia a death row inmate has the choice. Most take the shot. Someone asked the question "Why is it that if a Virginian Railway engineer were condemned to death, he would not have a choice; he would have to choose lethal injection? The answer...are you ready for this...it is because he is not a conductor! Time to Pull the Pin on this one. Hope all of you have a great Thanksgiving! Departing Now from V248, Skip Salmon ============= From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Nov 26 18:54:43 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:54:43 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine References: <687599894.5881831259013821550.JavaMail.root@sz0132a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><0F622AD300A149E4A97070BB1EE391D4@Gene><1C4995523F6146BAB2D5256470B4A362@StudyComputer> <4E1FBA0994D04DFDA739C4EA1F21F508@Gene> Message-ID: <98C93C1BB928451CB18338344F5AD7C7@StudyComputer> Gene Thanks for the info on C. L. Steele. His brother Henry was a fireman killed in derallment at Twin Branch in 1907 on class M 422. Thanks again Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 6:37 AM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Good morning Larry; There are two listings; Enginemen: C.L. Steele Hire date.. 7/3/18 J.B. Steele " " .. 11/22/26 Dad had a register on 31 Jan. 1941 for P.S. (I assume that meant passenger service), engine # 1363, report time 8:45 pm, Engineer Steel ( no initials). There are only 2 hrs 10 min work time recorded. A short run. Must have been an extra train. Thank you for asking; Gene Arnold Gloucester, Va. ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:03 PM Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Mallet engine Gene Do you have Crittle Leabron Steele listed in your Father's 1942 seniority roster? Larry Evans Kenova, WV ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Nov 26 20:50:39 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:50:39 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Leviathans Message-ID: Bluefield Daily Telegraph June 5, 1910 [A side view photo of 0-8-8-0 engine No. 990 extended across the full width of Page 7 at the top with the caption, "The New Leviathans That Will Haul the Great Output of the Pocahontas Coal Fields from Mine to Market--the Mallet Engine and What it Does." The following article is the first of three related articles on that page to be presented individually.] PRACTICALLY THE SAME AS TWO LOCOMOTIVES ------ The American Company's New Articulated Compound Mallet Furnished The N. & W. Some exceptionally heavy and powerful locomotives for freight service have recently been added to the equipment of the Norfolk and Western Railroad [sic] Company. These are of the type known as the articulated compound, and are more than twice as powerful as the largest freight engine now in service on that road. This type of locomotive represents one of the latest and most important developments in locomotive practice in this country within the past decade. It was first developed by a prominent French engineer, M. Anatole Mallet for freight service on roads having steep grades and sharp curves. To the American Locomotive Company, who quickly realized the adaptability of this type to American railroad conditions, belongs the credit for the introduction of the articulated compound locomotive into this country. In 1904 these builders constructed an engine of this type for freight service on the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad, which was the first of its class ever built in the United States. In the six years then, the articulated compound locomotive has come into great prominence, and is fast becoming the most popular type of heavy freight engine, particularly on those roads where the requirements have outgrown the capacity of locomotives of the more ordinary type. The engine here illustrated, which is one of the five built by the American Locomotive Company for the Norfolk and Western Railroad [sic], is one of the most powerful locomotives ever constructed. This lot of freight engines will be used on some of the heavy grades on this road, of which there are quite a number. They will probably be put into service on the Elkhorn grade, which is a rise of 105.6 feet per mile [2 percent], and the steepest one on the line. At the present time, the heaviest class of freight power is a twelve-wheel engine having a tractive power of 40,160 pounds, weight on driving wheels of 168,000 pounds and a total weight of 168,000 lbs. [sic., Class M total engine weight is 206,200 lbs. in Jeffries' book.] This class of engine will handle only 600 tons on the Elkhorn grade. With the introduction of the articulated locomotives the railroad company will have a class of power capable of handling over twice that tonnage. This order was directly due to the satisfactory performance of engines of similar type built by these same builders for the Virginian Railway, the success of which led the Norfolk and Western Railroad [sic] officials to adopt the articulated type for their road. This engine is practically two locomotives combined in one. It has sixteen drive wheels arranged in two groups of eight each. The rear group of wheels is carried in frames which are rigidly attached to the boiler, while the forward group of wheels is carried in frames which are not so attached, but are joined to the rear frames by hinged connections. The front group are thus in fact a truck which is capable of swiveling radially about the pivot connection with the rear group. This arrangement gives a locomotive capable of passing through curves of short radius, and at the same time having an enormous weight and corresponding hauling power. The weight being distributed over so many driving wheels, this monstrous engine is no harder on track and bridges than an engine of the ordinary type of one-half the weight and power. The high pressure cylinders which are seen in about the center of the engine, and are 2 1-2 [sic, 24-1/2 in Jeffries' book] inches in diameter, drive the rear group of wheels and the low pressure cylinders, which are 3 feet, 3 inches in diameter and 2 feet, 6 inches in stroke, drive the forward group of wheels. After passing through the high pressure cylinder the steam exhausts into what is called a receiver pipe from whence it is led to the low pressure cylinders where it performs additional work. The pipe connections between the high pressure and low pressure cylinders and the low pressure cylinders and the boiler are made with flexible joints so as to provide for the swinging of the front group when the engine is rounding a curve. By an ingenious hydro-pneumatic severing mechanism, the invention of its builders, the reversing of this enormous engine is rendered easier than that of an ordinary locomotive. In working order the engine has a total weight not including tender of 375,000 lbs. The weight of the engine and tender together is 544,300 lbs. [Blurred on microfilm. The value in Jeffries' book is shown.] To supply the boiler with water for the trip it requires a tank having a capacity of 9,000 gallons. Ordinarily, the engine has a tractive power of 85,000 lbs. [sic., tractive effort compound is 66,892 lbs., simple is 83,615 lbs. in Jeffries' book]. With the builders' system of compounding this power can be increased 20 per cent by changing the engine into single expansion. This is done by means of what is called an intercepting valve, which is a feature peculiar to engines of this type built by the American Locomotive Company and also governs the pressure of the steam in the receiver pipes. All the operations of this valve are automatic, except that which changes the engine into single expansion. This latter operation is accomplished by merely turning a valve in the engineer's cab, which permits the steam which passed through the high pressure cylinders to escape to the atmosphere, and admits the steam direct from the boiler to all four cylinders, giving the increase in power above mentioned. The boiler measures 78 inches in diameter outside at the front end, and its largest diameter is 81 1-4 inches. It is fitted with 334 tubes 24 inches [sic] long, giving a heating surface of 4,705 sq. feet. There are 200 square feet of heating surface in the fire-box, making the total heating surface of the boiler 4,905 square feet. The fire-box is ten feet long and 7 feet 1-4 inches wide, and has a grate area of 70.2 square feet. ------ Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Nov 26 22:58:55 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 22:58:55 -0500 Subject: Next Archives session ? In-Reply-To: <540e48700911251307l68cc65d1i854548fc5abe99a7@mail.gmail.co m> References: <540e48700911251307l68cc65d1i854548fc5abe99a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091127035902.CANY19505.eastrmmtao107.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Thu Nov 26 23:09:32 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:09:32 -0500 Subject: 2010 Convention Message-ID: <20091127040938.WJVH1428.eastrmmtao103.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> Mark your Calendars! The 2010 Convention will be June 17-20 at the Holiday Inn Hotel & Suites Front Royal at Blue Ridge Shadows Resort. This is a brand new hotel constructed just last year across from the Virginia Inland Port. This will be our first Convention on the Shenandoah Division. We are planning tours to Luray and Hagerstown and the many towns in between. There are a number of original stations still standing and some impressive bridges to see along the line. More details will be announced on this mailing list and the web site when they become available. From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Fri Nov 27 23:07:41 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:07:41 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Train Orders - Roanoke - Part 2 Message-ID: <20091128040748.TANB11342.eastrmmtao105.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> In further answer to your question about how operations were conducted at the time I hired, in 1964... Although I hired on the Radford Division and have always considered myself a "Radford Division man," I moved around a lot. Back in the 1960s, work fluctuated incredibly. Winters were especially bad and it was not unusual for a younger trainman to be "cut off" (furloughed) anywhere from two weeks to two or three months. I recall that, just after I hired, the 1955 men were wondering if they would be furloughed during the upcoming Winter. If you were furloughed and heard that another Division needed men, you scrambled down there as quickly as possible and "hired out as a new man," i.e. with new seniority. However, you retained your seniority on your previous Division, and when recalled to your previous Division, you could go back there or stay where you were. It was not uncommon for some men to "hold seniority" on three Divisions simultaneously by doing this. By moving around this way, I worked a considerable amount of time on (and held regular jobs on) "the Valley" (Roanoke to Shenandoah) and "the Punk" (Roanoke to Winston-Salem.) Although I worked a good bit on the Norfolk Division (Roanoke-Crewe,) it was always a "We need a man to go to..." situation, and I never held seniority there. We were paid on a mileage basis, and the longer the Division on which you worked, the more money you made. A "basic day" for pay purposes was 100 miles... for that you received 8 hours pay. Anything more than a hundred miles was a bonus. If you ran 150 miles, you received 1 1/2 days pay. Roanoke to Bluefield was only 100 miles, so you received only a "basic day" for that. Roanoke to Bristol was 150 miles, so we were paid 1.5 days pay for that. Roanoke to Shenandoah was 132 miles, Roanoke to Crewe was somewhere around 130 miles, and Roanoke to Winston paid 123 miles. So, in figuring out "where to stay" after recalled to your former Division, you always kept in mind that the longer districts had better paying jobs. (A brakeman's basic day when I hired was $17.56 per day.) If you were a Radford Division man, you could count on spending most of your time "on the River," i.e. running to Bluefield. "The River side" had 16 to 18 pool crews hauling coal, plus 6 (sometimes 8) crews in assigned Time Freight service. But the Bristol Line only had 6 pool crews handling the Time Freights. This meant that the senior men took the longer, higher paying Bristol Line jobs and the only way a younger man worked them was off the Extra List. There were also Radford Division locals, but they were all "up the road" jobs and no Roanoke man wanted to be forced on them: (1) The Ripplemeade Turn out of Bluefield, (2) the Short Run, Bluefield to Radford, out of Bluefield, (3) two Radford-Bristol local freights, (4) the Abingdon Branch job out of Bristol, and (5) daylight and an afternoon Glade Spring to Saltville Turns. (6) There was also a North Carolina Branch job out of Pulaski, but those guys NEVER marked off and I never knew of a Roanoke man being deadheaded to Pulaski to cover it. There may have been a one man extra list at Pulaski to cover it... I don't remember... but Roanoke men never got deadheaded to Pulaski. (7) The only local out of Roanoke was the five-day-a-week Salem Shifter and obviously the old heads stayed on that run. (When I hired, a 1926 man, Otis B. Irvin, was the Conductor on that job.) When I hired, the lay of the land on the Radford Division was that the 1945 men were on the Conductor's Extra List. The 1940 men were holding regular Conductor's jobs on the pool crews hauling coal "on the River." The 1926 men held the Bristol Line jobs and the Time Freights on "the River." The 1918-1926 men were on the passenger trains. And I remember there was still one 1917 hire brakeman running around... Jasper Wilkerson, who had never "taken promotion to Conductor." Jasper was on a Bristol Line job, obviously. To get back to train operations... The whole "Roanoke District" of the Shenandoah Division (Roanoke to Shenandoah) had been made CTC in the late 1940s. So it did not take Train Orders to run there. But there was the Time Table requirement that all trains get a Clearance Card (and orders if necessary) at the initial terminal. At Roanoke, one got Train Orders and/or a Clearance Card from the operator at DO Shaffers Crossing, and in Shenandoah at AN in the Shenandoah Yard Office. Some stations along the way still had Train Order signals and could deliver Train Orders if necessary. Hollins, Cloverdale, Buchannan, Grottoes, Elkton, and Glasgow come to mind... I would have to think about any others that may have still been open. The Norfolk Division between Roanoke and Crewe (including the Virginian Ry portion) was also CTC, except for the "Old Line" via Farmville, which was single track automatic block with no current of traffic, and Time Table superiority still prevailed here. I recall catching Train Orders at Farmville giving us right over No 26, to operate via the Old Line. I cannot recall whether it was APB (absolute permissive block) or not, but we were so il-ilnformed back in those days that we would have had no concept of what that meant. The Old Line through Lynchburg (Phoebe to Forest) was still in, but was used only by the Lynchburg based crews. I never made a complete trip over the Lynchburg Old Line, although I did make one dead-of-the-night move from Forest to Lynchburg during a wreck detour of some kind. The East End of the Norfolk Division (Crewe to Norfolk) was till double track with Rule 251 (one-direction signaling) + current of traffic, as I recall. Thus, if a train had to cross over and run against the current of traffic on the East End, it took Train Orders. But since I never worked the East End, I cannot give you specifics. Now to my favorite of them all, the Winston-Salem District of the Shenandoah Division (Roanoke to Winston-Salem.) That's where I learned real railroading ! This district had automatic block signals, but there was no CTC. The only thing the automatic signals did was space out following moves and prevent two opposing trains from entering a single track between passing sidings and coming to a "Mexican Standoff" situation. Everything on the Winston District was still run by Time Table superiority, right, class and direction, and Train Orders. All three districts of the Shenandoah Division were run from UD (which had originally stood for "Union Depot") the Train Dispatchers Office, located on the second floor of the Roanoke Freight Station on Commerce St. UD had originally been in the Union Depot at Hagerstown; was moved to the upper floor of the old Roanoke passenger station at the time the Shenandoah Valley RR reached Roanoke; had thereafter been moved to second floor of the old Park Street Office Building, until that building burned sometime around 1935; and had thence been moved to the Freight Station.) In my time, UD had on the daylight shift a Trian Dispatcher for the Valley and one for the Punk, but on second and third tricks one Train Dispatcher handled both. The crew of a Punkin Vine train departing Roanoke received Train Orders and a Clearance Card when reporting for duty at DO. But a long time (acouple of hours) elapsed before the crew actually hit the Punkin Vine. The crew had to get the engine out of the Round House, proceed to Park Street, couple to the train, knock off the hand brakes, make a brake test, and then wait for it's turn to depart. Even after departure, it ran by signals (controlled by Randolph Street) to JK at Walnut Avenue in South Roanoke. Due to this elapsed time of an hour and a half or so, the Dispatcher addressed any serious orders for the southward train (meets, waits, etc) for delivery at JK. Quite frequently we would get seven or eight Train Orders at JK, such as the "work extra" order for the Martinsville and Bassett Switchers and meets on opposing trains. (Conductors were required to "register" their trains at JK when going in either direction, but that's a story for another time.) By the time the southward train got to Starkey or Wirtz, the operating situation had changed and there were more Train orders changing the meets. Rocky Mount and Henry always had more orders for you (Lanahan had been torn down by the time I went to work, and Ferrum had just been closed but was still standing.) Payne was a night-only office (11PM to 7AM.) Martinsville was open first and second tricks, but was closed third trick. Stoneville, Madison and Mayodan were open daylight only... no, Madison may have been open two shifts, I can't remember. Walnut Cove was open continuously as I recall. South of Walnut Cove, all the other stations had been closed, so that was the last place you could get orders. Or was Walkertown still open? I can't recall. It was quite ordinary to get 22 to 24 Train Orders during the course of that 123 mile run... and that was after the passenger trains had been taken off ! As I recall, Walnut Cove was the only Train Order Office ("telegraph office" in N&W-speak) which had a color light signal for train orders -- all the others had semaphores. (Kenny on the Norfolk Div also had a color light signal for TO's.) As for radios... There were none in use on the Punkin Vine except that the station agent had one at Bassett and occasionally his clerk would call one of the Bassett switchers with instructions for siding/customer work. The Roanoke District of the Shenandoah Division had radio operable in one or two locations, but it wasn't widespread or reliable. The Norfolk Division seemed to have better radio coverage than any other Division, but that was probably because of the Virginian's route having been integrated into the N&W operation about three years before I hired, with the necessity for better communications and the desire to get rid of what the industry calls "train order operators." General, however, if you needed to talk to the Train Dispatcher, you went to a telephone box and cranked. Another interesting topic is switchtenders. In my time, there were switchtenders at Park Street; at "606" which was at the east end of the Receiving Yard at Shaffers Crossing; at 30th Street, known as the "Motive Power Switchtender," handling engines to and from the Round House; and at "672" at the west end of the Receiving Yard, also known as "the Pull In" or "the Stock Pen." My father spoke of a switchtender at Henry Street, handling the switches just west of the Passenger Station... this job lasted up into the 1950s, I think. Earlier on there had also been switchtender jobs at the east end of the Passenger Station. And one at Shaffers Crossing just west of the tunnels, along the Westbound Main Line, to handle trains coming up the Running Track from the Pull Up Yard and trains into and out of the east end of the Empty Side Yard. There was also a switchtender somewhere east of the Bristol station before CTC. The switchtenders had their own roster and, as their jobs thinned out, were given seniority on the trainman's roster in (I think) 1957. All this seems to me as if it were just yesterday, although it was before you were born ! -- adb From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sat Nov 28 08:15:38 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:15:38 -0500 Subject: Train Orders - Roanoke - Part 2 References: <20091128040748.TANB11342.eastrmmtao105.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <5C6E328B8EA247919507C6A191A8303F@satellite> Where would one find the first part of this article? Thank you in advance. Dan Winter Formerly Wytheville, VA ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" To: Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 11:07 PM Subject: Fwd: Train Orders - Roanoke - Part 2 > In further answer to your question about how operations were conducted at > the time I hired, in 1964... > > Although I hired on the Radford Division and have always considered myself > a "Radford Division man," I moved around a lot. Back in the 1960s, work > fluctuated incredibly. Winters were especially bad and it was not unusual > for a younger trainman to be "cut off" (furloughed) anywhere from two > weeks to two or three months. I recall that, just after I hired, the 1955 > men were wondering if they would be furloughed during the upcoming Winter. > If you were furloughed and heard that another Division needed men, you > scrambled down there as quickly as possible and "hired out as a new man," > i.e. with new seniority. However, you retained your seniority on your > previous Division, and when recalled to your previous Division, you could > go back there or stay where you were. It was not uncommon for some men to > "hold seniority" on three Divisions simultaneously by doing this. By > moving around this way, I worked a considerable amount of time on (and > held regular jobs on) "the Valley" (Roanoke to Shenandoah) and "the Punk" > (Roanoke to Winston-Salem.) Although I worked a good bit on the Norfolk > Division (Roanoke-Crewe,) it was always a "We need a man to go to..." > situation, and I never held seniority there. > > We were paid on a mileage basis, and the longer the Division on which you > worked, the more money you made. A "basic day" for pay purposes was 100 > miles... for that you received 8 hours pay. Anything more than a hundred > miles was a bonus. If you ran 150 miles, you received 1 1/2 days pay. > Roanoke to Bluefield was only 100 miles, so you received only a "basic > day" for that. Roanoke to Bristol was 150 miles, so we were paid 1.5 days > pay for that. Roanoke to Shenandoah was 132 miles, Roanoke to Crewe was > somewhere around 130 miles, and Roanoke to Winston paid 123 miles. So, in > figuring out "where to stay" after recalled to your former Division, you > always kept in mind that the longer districts had better paying jobs. (A > brakeman's basic day when I hired was $17.56 per day.) > > If you were a Radford Division man, you could count on spending most of > your time "on the River," i.e. running to Bluefield. "The River side" had > 16 to 18 pool crews hauling coal, plus 6 (sometimes 8) crews in assigned > Time Freight service. But the Bristol Line only had 6 pool crews handling > the Time Freights. This meant that the senior men took the longer, higher > paying Bristol Line jobs and the only way a younger man worked them was > off the Extra List. > > There were also Radford Division locals, but they were all "up the road" > jobs and no Roanoke man wanted to be forced on them: (1) The Ripplemeade > Turn out of Bluefield, (2) the Short Run, Bluefield to Radford, out of > Bluefield, (3) two Radford-Bristol local freights, (4) the Abingdon Branch > job out of Bristol, and (5) daylight and an afternoon Glade Spring to > Saltville Turns. (6) There was also a North Carolina Branch job out of > Pulaski, but those guys NEVER marked off and I never knew of a Roanoke man > being deadheaded to Pulaski to cover it. There may have been a one man > extra list at Pulaski to cover it... I don't remember... but Roanoke men > never got deadheaded to Pulaski. (7) The only local out of Roanoke was > the five-day-a-week Salem Shifter and obviously the old heads stayed on > that run. (When I hired, a 1926 man, Otis B. Irvin, was the Conductor on > that job.) > > When I hired, the lay of the land on the Radford Division was that the > 1945 men were on the Conductor's Extra List. The 1940 men were holding > regular Conductor's jobs on the pool crews hauling coal "on the River." > The 1926 men held the Bristol Line jobs and the Time Freights on "the > River." The 1918-1926 men were on the passenger trains. And I remember > there was still one 1917 hire brakeman running around... Jasper Wilkerson, > who had never "taken promotion to Conductor." Jasper was on a Bristol > Line job, obviously. > > To get back to train operations... > > The whole "Roanoke District" of the Shenandoah Division (Roanoke to > Shenandoah) had been made CTC in the late 1940s. So it did not take Train > Orders to run there. But there was the Time Table requirement that all > trains get a Clearance Card (and orders if necessary) at the initial > terminal. At Roanoke, one got Train Orders and/or a Clearance Card from > the operator at DO Shaffers Crossing, and in Shenandoah at AN in the > Shenandoah Yard Office. Some stations along the way still had Train Order > signals and could deliver Train Orders if necessary. Hollins, Cloverdale, > Buchannan, Grottoes, Elkton, and Glasgow come to mind... I would have to > think about any others that may have still been open. > > The Norfolk Division between Roanoke and Crewe (including the Virginian Ry > portion) was also CTC, except for the "Old Line" via Farmville, which was > single track automatic block with no current of traffic, and Time Table > superiority still prevailed here. I recall catching Train Orders at > Farmville giving us right over No 26, to operate via the Old Line. I > cannot recall whether it was APB (absolute permissive block) or not, but > we were so il-ilnformed back in those days that we would have had no > concept of what that meant. The Old Line through Lynchburg (Phoebe to > Forest) was still in, but was used only by the Lynchburg based crews. I > never made a complete trip over the Lynchburg Old Line, although I did > make one dead-of-the-night move from Forest to Lynchburg during a wreck > detour of some kind. The East End of the Norfolk Division (Crewe to > Norfolk) was till double track with Rule 251 (one-direction signaling) + > current of traffic, as I recall. Thus, if a train had to cross over and > run against the current of traffic on the East End, it took Train Orders. > But since I never worked the East End, I cannot give you specifics. > > Now to my favorite of them all, the Winston-Salem District of the > Shenandoah Division (Roanoke to Winston-Salem.) That's where I learned > real railroading ! This district had automatic block signals, but there > was no CTC. The only thing the automatic signals did was space out > following moves and prevent two opposing trains from entering a single > track between passing sidings and coming to a "Mexican Standoff" > situation. Everything on the Winston District was still run by Time Table > superiority, right, class and direction, and Train Orders. > > All three districts of the Shenandoah Division were run from UD (which had > originally stood for "Union Depot") the Train Dispatchers Office, located > on the second floor of the Roanoke Freight Station on Commerce St. UD had > originally been in the Union Depot at Hagerstown; was moved to the upper > floor of the old Roanoke passenger station at the time the Shenandoah > Valley RR reached Roanoke; had thereafter been moved to second floor of > the old Park Street Office Building, until that building burned sometime > around 1935; and had thence been moved to the Freight Station.) In my > time, UD had on the daylight shift a Trian Dispatcher for the Valley and > one for the Punk, but on second and third tricks one Train Dispatcher > handled both. > > The crew of a Punkin Vine train departing Roanoke received Train Orders > and a Clearance Card when reporting for duty at DO. But a long time > (acouple of hours) elapsed before the crew actually hit the Punkin Vine. > The crew had to get the engine out of the Round House, proceed to Park > Street, couple to the train, knock off the hand brakes, make a brake test, > and then wait for it's turn to depart. Even after departure, it ran by > signals (controlled by Randolph Street) to JK at Walnut Avenue in South > Roanoke. Due to this elapsed time of an hour and a half or so, the > Dispatcher addressed any serious orders for the southward train (meets, > waits, etc) for delivery at JK. Quite frequently we would get seven or > eight Train Orders at JK, such as the "work extra" order for the > Martinsville and Bassett Switchers and meets on opposing trains. > (Conductors were required to "register" their trains at JK when going in > either direction, but that's a story for another time.) > > By the time the southward train got to Starkey or Wirtz, the operating > situation had changed and there were more Train orders changing the meets. > Rocky Mount and Henry always had more orders for you (Lanahan had been > torn down by the time I went to work, and Ferrum had just been closed but > was still standing.) Payne was a night-only office (11PM to 7AM.) > Martinsville was open first and second tricks, but was closed third trick. > Stoneville, Madison and Mayodan were open daylight only... no, Madison may > have been open two shifts, I can't remember. Walnut Cove was open > continuously as I recall. South of Walnut Cove, all the other stations > had been closed, so that was the last place you could get orders. Or was > Walkertown still open? I can't recall. It was quite ordinary to get 22 > to 24 Train Orders during the course of that 123 mile run... and that was > after the passenger trains had been taken off ! As I recall, Walnut Cove > was the only Train Order Office ("telegraph office" in N&W-speak) which > had a color light signal for train orders -- all the others had > semaphores. (Kenny on the Norfolk Div also had a color light signal for > TO's.) > > As for radios... There were none in use on the Punkin Vine except that the > station agent had one at Bassett and occasionally his clerk would call one > of the Bassett switchers with instructions for siding/customer work. The > Roanoke District of the Shenandoah Division had radio operable in one or > two locations, but it wasn't widespread or reliable. The Norfolk Division > seemed to have better radio coverage than any other Division, but that was > probably because of the Virginian's route having been integrated into the > N&W operation about three years before I hired, with the necessity for > better communications and the desire to get rid of what the industry calls > "train order operators." General, however, if you needed to talk to the > Train Dispatcher, you went to a telephone box and cranked. > > Another interesting topic is switchtenders. In my time, there were > switchtenders at Park Street; at "606" which was at the east end of the > Receiving Yard at Shaffers Crossing; at 30th Street, known as the "Motive > Power Switchtender," handling engines to and from the Round House; and at > "672" at the west end of the Receiving Yard, also known as "the Pull In" > or "the Stock Pen." My father spoke of a switchtender at Henry Street, > handling the switches just west of the Passenger Station... this job > lasted up into the 1950s, I think. Earlier on there had also been > switchtender jobs at the east end of the Passenger Station. And one at > Shaffers Crossing just west of the tunnels, along the Westbound Main Line, > to handle trains coming up the Running Track from the Pull Up Yard and > trains into and out of the east end of the Empty Side Yard. There was > also a switchtender somewhere east of the Bristol station before CTC. The > switchtenders had their own roster and, as their jobs thinned out, were > given seniority on the trainman's roster in (I think) 1957. > > All this seems to me as if it were just yesterday, although it was before > you were born ! > > -- adb > > ________________________________________ > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ > From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sat Nov 28 15:12:08 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:12:08 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Leviathans, Part 2 Message-ID: <6DD73CB0D4DD4E089B7C9B16E361251B@DellVostro> Bluefield Daily Telegraph June 5, 1910 [A side view photo of 0-8-8-0 engine No. 990 extended across the full width of Page 7 at the top with the caption, "The New Leviathans That Will Haul the Great Output of the Pocahontas Coal Fields from Mine to Market--the Mallet Engine and What it Does." The following article is the second of three related articles on that page to be presented individually.] THE MALLET ENGINE ------ Description of The Monster Made by The Baldwin Locomotive Works The Norfolk & Western Railway has recently received from the Baldwin Locomotive Works five locomotives for heavy freight service on mountain grades [Class Y1, 2-8-8-2, N&W 995-999]. These engines belong to what is known, from the name of its inventor, as the mallet type. Each is carried on twenty wheels, and is equivalent to two locomotives of the ordinary type. The driving-wheels are divided into two groups of eight wheels each, and in addition there is a two-wheeled swing truck at each end to assist in guiding the engine around curves. Each group of driving wheels is held in a separate frame and is rotated by a separate pair of cylinders. The front frames are hinged to the rear frames, so that the front group of driving wheels acts like a truck and the engine can traverse sharp curves with ease. The cylinders are arranged on the compound system. That is, the steam is first used in the rear, or high pressure cylinders, and then in the front or low pressure cylinders. This method of using steam results in considerable economy in fuel and water. The Norfolk & Western engines are so constructed that they can be easily separated into two sections. This facilitates handling the locomotives in the shop when making repairs. The front section of the boiler is fitted with a chamber in which the feed-water is heated before being forced into the boiler proper. The principal dimensions of the Norfolk & Western locomotives are as follows: Cylinders, 24 1-2 and 38 x 30 inches. Driving wheels, diameter, 56 inches. Steam pressure, 200 pounds per square inch. Total heating surface, 5905 square feet. Grate area, 75.2 square feet. Weight on driving-wheels, 360,000 pounds. Weight of engine, total, 390,000 pounds. Total weight of engine an tender, 540,000 pounds. Water capacity of tender, 9000 gallons. Coal capacity of tender, 14 tons. Locomotives of the mallet type can frequently be used to advantage in special service, on lines having heavy grades and sharp curves. This is especially true of logging service. A mallet locomotive with two or three pairs of driving wheels in each group, can be designed to haul heavy loads, and at the same time have a moderate amount of weight per wheel and so be easy on the track. Such a locomotive can traverse sharp curves with ease, while it avoids the use of a complicated form of driving mechanism such as is found in geared locomotives. The Baldwin Locomotive Works have built a number of mallet engines for logging roads, and more are under construction for this kind of service. The works will be pleased to furnish further information to interested parties. ------ [The principal dimensions given in the article are not significantly different from those in Jeffries' book on N&W steam except the diameter of the low pressure cylinders, which should be 39 inches instead of the 38 inches given in the article.] Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sat Nov 28 15:41:17 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:41:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Train Orders - Roanoke - Part 2 Message-ID: <93331.97601.qm@web35301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Several years ago I gave to the NWHS Archives a large collection of train orders from the Punkin Vine in the steam era of 1955-56 that I had taken off engines at North Winston. ?They are very interesting reading. Dick Kimball -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sat Nov 28 21:26:30 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:26:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: 0-4-0 "John Kyle" Message-ID: <591862.81941.qm@web81007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A friend of mine inquired about a photo he has in his collection that is labeled as being at Hanging Rock, OH. It is of an 0-4-0 #2 named the "John Kyle." Anyone have any additional information on this locomotive, dates of operation or owner etc? Thanks, Whit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Nov 29 10:56:47 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 07:56:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: 0-4-0 "John Kyle" In-Reply-To: <591862.81941.qm@web81007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <693202.40977.qm@web110810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> hello I would like to know how long did battleship gondolas stay on the line and what were the lengths and car numbers? I have an idea if they were as long as a 6 axle tender I could probably make one out of a Bachmann auxilary tender. thanks. tony putnam --- On Sun, 11/29/09, NW Mailing List wrote: From: NW Mailing List Subject: 0-4-0 "John Kyle" To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009, 2:26 AM A friend of mine inquired about a photo he has in his collection that is labeled as being at Hanging Rock, OH. It is of an 0-4-0 #2 named the? "John Kyle." Anyone have any additional information on this locomotive, dates of operation or owner etc? Thanks, Whit -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Nov 29 10:18:34 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 10:18:34 -0500 Subject: Train Orders - Roanoke - Part 2 References: <93331.97601.qm@web35301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dick, Was there a post to the list "Train Orders-Roanoke-Part 1? I enjoyed part 2 so much, I would like to read part 1. Please advise. Thank you. Dan Winter ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 3:41 PM Subject: Re:Train Orders - Roanoke - Part 2 Several years ago I gave to the NWHS Archives a large collection of train orders from the Punkin Vine in the steam era of 1955-56 that I had taken off engines at North Winston. They are very interesting reading. Dick Kimball ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Nov 29 19:42:49 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:42:49 -0500 Subject: Train Orders - Roanoke - Part 2 References: <93331.97601.qm@web35301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I understand that all messages are archived. Go to www.nwhs.org and click on "Discussion Group by email," then "NW-Mailing-List Archives" or the modeling equivalent. Gordon Hamilton ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: NW Mailing List Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 10:18 AM Subject: Re: Re:Train Orders - Roanoke - Part 2 Dick, Was there a post to the list "Train Orders-Roanoke-Part 1? I enjoyed part 2 so much, I would like to read part 1. Please advise. Thank you. Dan Winter ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Mailing List To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 3:41 PM Subject: Re:Train Orders - Roanoke - Part 2 Several years ago I gave to the NWHS Archives a large collection of train orders from the Punkin Vine in the steam era of 1955-56 that I had taken off engines at North Winston. They are very interesting reading. Dick Kimball ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.87/2534 - Release Date: 11/29/09 02:49:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Nov 29 20:50:12 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:50:12 -0500 Subject: N&W in 1910--Leviathans, Part 3 Message-ID: Bluefield Daily Telegraph June 5, 1910 [A side view photo of 0-8-8-0 engine No. 990 extended across the full width of Page 7 at the top with the caption, "The New Leviathans That Will Haul the Great Output of the Pocahontas Coal Fields from Mine to Market--the Mallet Engine and What it Does." The following article is the third of three related articles on that page to be presented individually.] LOCAL MAN TELLS OF NEW ENGINE ------ Says it is Easy to Fire and Will Be A Success on This Division Harry Weller, trainmaster for the Pocahontas division, said yesterday in talking about the new engine that the Baldwin engines are about ten feet longer than the American type, a photo of which is shown above. The Baldwin type has pony trucks and trailers which support the extra ten feet, and which do not show up in the picture. The engines will be known as class X and class Y, the American being X and the Baldwin Y. The engines have an innovation in the arrangement of the reverse lever. It is worked by air and the engineer simply grips the handle which opens the valve and a push in the desired direction moves the engine either way. From a fireman's standpoint the engine built by the Baldwins is a little more convenient as it is a shorter distance to the firebox which is reached easily from the tender. The tenders, which hold 9,000 gallons of water and 28,000 pounds of coal, are monsters but the coal is rolled to the fireman so that he can reach it without trouble. The several tests to which the engines have been put on this division, said Mr. Weller, prove that they will be satisfactory and will easily do the work of two class M engines with about two thirds the amount of coal. They can be run safely at Twenty-five miles an hour and an even greater speed can be attained. The engines are easy riding and Mr. Weller claims that they are the most comfortable engine that he has ever ridden on through the Elkhorn tunnel. The men in the cab are not troubled with smoke, gases and heat, as the steam goes into the low pressure cylinder from the high pressure cylinder with the result that it loses a good deal of its heat. Much of the cinders is burned up in the engine, and the smokestack is so far from the cab that the men on the engine experience little difficulty in passing through the tunnel, which can be gone through in a very few minutes. Contrary to what was expected the engines, in spite of their heavy drawing power, are not hard on equipment. They start easy and should one or the other engine slip there is absolutely no surging of the train. Mr. Weller believes the engines are the coming engine for the hauling of freight. ------ [Both the Class X1 and Y1 were hand fired. Even accepting that one of these Mallets would burn only two-thirds the coal of two Class M engines, that means that the fireman on a Mallet would have to shovel one-third more coal than he would on one of the two Class M engines. Somewhere I have seen that some railroads had to assign two fireman to the early hand-fired Mallets. Was this done on the N&W?] Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Nov 29 20:52:22 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:52:22 -0500 Subject: The Arrow Oct-Nov-Dec09 In-Reply-To: <20091127040938.WJVH1428.eastrmmtao103.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> References: <20091127040938.WJVH1428.eastrmmtao103.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: <04F1DF013003034193915EE0CCEA9A910133F8C4DF@SWEC9924.w-intra.net> Great Arrow as usual. I wanted to note one error I observed in "Diesel Timeline; Part 3" (it's a great continuation of the first 2 articles) The FM Trainmaster at the bottom of page 20 is identified as being ex-Wabash 3596. I think when looked at it more closely the locomotive number is actually 3598. (I have 35mm slides I took of this locomotive at Mullins and Elmore in 1973 and 1974). It's also not ex-Wabash but ex-Virginian (if you look at the louvers on the top side of the long hood and spark arrestor there are no ALCO repowering mods - all the Wabash TM's were re-powered by ALCO in 1964 prior to the N&W merger) - and too all the ex-Wabash TM's were painted blue, not black. Several H-24-66 TM's went through retirements/renumbering due to equipment trust issues? In reviewing official N&W Diesel Locomotive Retirement sheets and other N&W roster info along with data from a railfan friend (retired-NS) here's the history of N&W road #3598: Wabash 550 became Wabash 598 and post N&W merger it became N&W 1st #3598. 1st #3598 was shown as retired in 6/1969 (but a note next stated it was restored 7/69) Ex-VGN #167 was shown as being retired during 4/70. In reality ex-Wab 1st #3598 was retired and road #3598 was applied to ex-VGN #167 making it 2nd #3598. Road #3598 was next assigned to ex-VGN road #153. This occurred when 2nd #3598 (ex-VGN 167 shows as retired in 4/70). 3rd road #3598 was ex-VGN 153. (This would be the locomotive pictured on page 20 of the Arrow and page 242 in "N&W First Generation Diesels"; also inaccurately captioned....I too photographed it in 73/74). (ex-VGN 153 shows as retired during 7/71) The last renumbering (4th #3598) occurred when ex-Wab N&W road #3592 was renumbered road #3598. I photographed this locomotive (Pevler Blue/ALCO re-engined) at the East End Shops in Spring 1974, first as #3592 and later #3598. The renumbering involved only changing the 2 to an 8 on the cab. Surprisingly it was done rather neatly in blue and yellow. Both ex-Wab N&W road #'s 3592 and 3598 show as being rebuilt into RP-F6's. 9/74 for #3592 and 6/75 for #3598. Bottom line N&W road #3598 was applied to 4 different N&W TM's. It can get a bit confusing to say the least @#$$@!. Summary... 1st N&W #3598 was ex-Wab #398 2nd N&W #3598 was ex-VGN/N&W #167 3rd N&W #3598 was ex-VGN/N&W #153 4th (and last) N&W #3598 was ex-Wab/N&W #3592 Ed Painter - Narrows, VA currently living in Russellville, AR From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Nov 29 23:18:23 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 22:18:23 -0600 Subject: Oct-Dec Arrow Message-ID: <002401ca7174$288b18f0$79a14ad0$@net> While we are making corrections to the latest issue of the Arrow, I need to point out an error in reporting on the model contest (pages 4 & 5). The photos of Bill McClure's Vgn big gondola and mine have been swapped. The picture on page 4 is my car and the picture on page 5 (with all the interior bracing shown) is Bill's model. Jim Nichols -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org Sun Nov 29 23:23:01 2009 From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 22:23:01 -0600 Subject: N&W in 1910--Leviathans, Part 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002901ca7174$ce08f900$6a1aeb00$@net> The two fireman report was on the early Virginian Mallets. As big as the N&W engines were, one would expect the same problem (as Gordon apparently does) but I have never seen it reported. Jim Nichols ------ [Both the Class X1 and Y1 were hand fired. Even accepting that one of these Mallets would burn only two-thirds the coal of two Class M engines, that means that the fireman on a Mallet would have to shovel one-third more coal than he would on one of the two Class M engines. Somewhere I have seen that some railroads had to assign two fireman to the early hand-fired Mallets. Was this done on the N&W?] Gordon Hamilton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: