N&WHC-3 covered hoppers

[NW Mailing List]

Some additional information from a friend who has studied the glass industry follows:

Matt Goodman


----- Forwarded Message ----

Matt,

Sorry for the delay in responding, but I've been sorting through Marion
images to post and share on line.

I have a B&O Form 6 book that covers stations and customers served along the
railroad. It is dated 1926 and covers St. Bernard, Ohio. BUT, there doesn't
seem to be a sand or gravel company served by the B&O there in 1926. This
could have changed by the late 1950s time period of the inquiry you sent.

The glass industry preferred a source of clean silica. This means sandstone
was usually mined, crushed and screened before shipping. Sandstone can range
in quality. A very clean sandstone has less clay binding the grains
together. So it depends on the quality of the product as to how far it would
be shipped. Good stuff was in demand and often shippped a pretty good
distance. As it was N&W and B&O covered hoppers noted in this service, it
seems the two railroads shared a few cars to pool into specific use for
supplying sand to the glass industry on the O&LC. 

It was great meeting you at Marion. I really enjoyed the event and meeting
many others. Thanks for sending along your gallery link. I'm sure it will be
viewed often.

Eric



________________________________
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 12:48:26 PM
Subject: RE: Re: N&WHC-3 covered hoppers


It may be that the source of the silica sand was not in the Cincinnati area, but it may be that the car(s) were loaded nearby in quarries located along the Great Miami River or Little Miami River where there were many quarries operated in the 1950’s.  These quarries were along the rivers from the Ohio River well up north towards Dayton, Ohio.  But, I am not aware of a quarry that dug quartz sand from the river bottoms around here.
 
It is also possible that the sand came from a distributor of sand for different industrial purposes.  A number of these were suppliers to foundries (sand for castings) of which there were many (many, many) in the Cincinnati area due to the machine tool industries there.  Hill and Griffiths still exists in Cincinnati off of the Southern Ry as a foundry supplier and they started in 1896.
 
It also could be that the silica sand came by barge and was off loaded on the riverfront or near the mouth of the Mill Creek and transloaded into the railroad hopper cars along the river bank downstream from Cincinnati along the B&O and Big Four lines.
 
Note that the N&W did interchange with the B&O Ohio Division in a small yard/set off near Berry Yard in Bond Hill along Tennessee Avenue.  They also interchanged with the B&O Toledo Division in the yard near Ivorydale in St. Bernard/Elmwood Place on the north side of the Proctor & Gamble plant.  The N&W would interchange with the Big Four there as well.    It may be that the Bond Hill interchange was recorded as Norwood (right next door) rather than implying the Norwood Yard of the N&W in Norwood.  
 
The NYC also interchanged with the B&O Ohio Division there as well- the old CH&D yard in St. Bernard.
 
It would seem to me that the best route for a car from Cincinnati to the Rutland RR in Vermont would be on the Big Four/NYC with a routing from Cincinnati to Dayton, Springfield, Bellfountaine and the Beeline Route to Cleveland and the Water Level Route rather than a routing over the B&O or the PRR which would be less direct.  
 
Gary Rolih
Cincinnati 
 
 
 
From:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 7:30 AM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Re: N&WHC-3 covered hoppers
 
Kurt,
  I have tried searching silica, silicone dioxide and sand on the web and found several companies in Ohio which mine silica but none seem to have an apparent connection to St. Bernard, Norwood or Cincinnati.  There where a bunch of mergers mentioned but still no clue who it was in 1953.  The deposit of silica may have been in a different area with the refining process being done in the Cincinnati area.  N&W cars shipped tended to have the origin "St. Bernard" while B&O cars had "Norwood" but these are next to each other and suburbs of Cincinnati. 
Andy Clermont
----- Original Message ----- 

>From:NW Mailing List 

>To:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org 

>Sent:Friday, April 30, 2010 11:48 PM

>Subject:Re: Re: N&WHC-3 covered hoppers

> 

>Try looking for sand which is silicone dioxide or silica.

> 

>Kurt S. Kramke

>

>

>Apr 30, 2010 02:51:39 PM, nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org wrote:

>Matt,

>>Thanks for the help, I have been searching the internet and have found 

>>nothing connecting St. Bernard, OH to silica. I have found that some of the 

>>cars shipped, B&O, originated from Norwood, OH which is close to St. 

>>Bernard but web searches have turned nothing on that location either. Let 

>>me know what you find.

>>Andy Clermont

>>----- Original Message ----- 

>>From: "NW Mailing List" 

>>To: "NW Mailing List" 

>>Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 11:17 PM

>>Subject: Re: N&WHC-3 covered hoppers

>>

>>

>>> Andy,

>>>

>>> I attended a Prototype Modelers Meet in Marion, Ohio this past weekend, 

>>> and by chance one of the clinics was on the glass industry in WVA, Western 

>>> Pa and Ohio. The presenter had done some good research on where raw 

>>> materials were, so it's possible he may know of the silica source in St 

>>> Bernard.

>>>

>>> I'm attempting to contact him about your question and will let you know if 

>>> that bears fruit.

>>>

>>> Matt Goodman

>>> Columbus Ohio

>>>

>>> On Apr 24, 2010, at 6:23 PM, NW Mailing List 

>>> wrote:

>>>

>>> 1. Who was the shipper of silica in St. Bernard, OH in 1953

>>> and is there any information available? They must have been served by the

>>> N&W and the B&O.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

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>>

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