Why the 611?

[NW Mailing List]

Not a problem, our esteemed Mr. Bud Jefferies informed me that at  
least one other Class J, 612 underwent Class repairs after 611, he  
will report that to the list as soon as he finishes with the hay at  
the farm. However, the 611 was the last servicable. The 610 and 612  
were on the Norfolk Division, both being officially retired on August  
21, 1959, 610 at Crewe and 612 at Lamberts Point.

Again, likely reason was a failed or less than cooperative major  
component, and no desire to do any heavy service for a call that would  
not likely come.

Regarding the book on the J, it has been out of print for about 8  
years now. N&WHS is considering a reprint, possibly with a few changes  
and such.

Best
Ken Miller

On Jun 6, 2010, at 6:37 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:


> Mr. Miller;

> Once again thank you for taking so much time to give the details of  

> "Why the 611" was chosen. I'm sure that our email conversations were  

> appreciated by many. I looked through the on line N&WHS commissary  

> for your book, but couldn't find any thing. Does not mean that it is  

> not there, just means that I didn't see it.

> Thank you again Sir;

> Gene Arnold

> Gloucester, Va.

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org 

> >

> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:35 AM

> Subject: Re: Why the 611?

>

>

>> Gene

>>

>> I don't have any reference material with me, nor a copy of the book  

>> handy, so if I have some dates off, well, check the book. If you   

>> look, you'll see the first J retired was in, IIRC, August of 1958.  

>> By  July, with the lease of the RF&P and ACL E units to handle all  

>> the  mainline passenger trains, the Js were pushed to secondary  

>> service,  and all were equipped for freight service, with addition  

>> of  connections for auxiliary tenders. As mechanical issues faced  

>> the in  service Js, the immediate need was determined, and if it  

>> cost too  much, or took too much time, they were stored and/or  

>> retired. Several  went in local freight service on the east and  

>> west end of the  railroad, during the holiday rush, Js were used in  

>> passenger service,  especially when the diesels failed.

>>

>> By late December 1958, the first N&W passenger diesels arrived on  

>> the property, limiting the use of the Js on passenger trains, with  

>> the passing of the holiday mail and express rush, there were soon  

>> enough diesels on the property to handle to regular trains. In  

>> addition, the  N&W was going through a lot of passenger train offs,  

>> eliminating a  lot of local service and mail and express. Many Js  

>> were stored, and  over the next few months retired, particularly as  

>> flue dates passed.  The 611, was the last Class J to have received  

>> a major overhaul,  after the wreck on No. 3 at Cedar, West Virginia  

>> on January 23, 1956.  It had the most recent flues, and major  

>> repairs. By the summer of  1959, it was likely the only J with  

>> usable flues. Again, if I recall  correctly, a number of the other  

>> Js were gone from the property in  Spring 1959, others being  

>> retired in June and July.

>>

>> The reason none were to be saved was simple, it was financial,  

>> Stuart Saunders and his management team had no sentimentality, no  

>> interest  in the history, only the bottom line. They had presented  

>> the Y6a No.  2156 to the St. Louis Museum, and the E2a No. 578 to  

>> the Museum at  Worthington, Ohio, as well as Class M No. 433 to  

>> Abingdon and No. 5  to Bluefield, No. 6 to Roanoke.

>>

>> However, short of the Y6, note that all of these locomotives were   

>> small power, lightweight, those did not have nearly the scrap  

>> value  as bigger power, A, J, etc. I'm certain that saving an S1a  

>> like 244  was not even considered. It was not that old, not  

>> interesting. Again,  if I recall correctly, the 244 was retired  

>> sometime in 1958. The  price of scrap was pretty high at the time,  

>> don't give away something  that the company can return value on. Of  

>> which they did. It is noted  that there were a huge number of steam  

>> engines on hand at the end,  including a bunch of Virginian steam,  

>> perfect basis of a  transportation museum in all cases. However,  

>> with the value high, all  was scrapped, and the VGN stuff was moved  

>> in a funeral train very  late in December 1959 to get it off the  

>> property before the end of  the physical year. There could easily  

>> have been more saved, if the  desire had been there, and the value  

>> of scrap been down to nothing,  things may have stayed on the  

>> property longer, awaiting value to  rise. Perhaps by then, someone  

>> may have come along with money or a  decent plan to save things,  

>> but it costs money, then as today. However, it was a scorched earth  

>> policy that cleaned the property of  most all those old steam  

>> locomotives, as well as a bunch of other  cost cutting things done  

>> in 1959-1962. Why? Very simple, it improved  the bottom line,  

>> increasing stock value, of which executives like  Presidents of the  

>> company own and it makes stockholders happy as  well, which means  

>> they keep the President in his job.

>>

>> Anyway, by August of 1959, 611 was the last J standing, still in  

>> operating condition, operated on a special trip for Appalachian   

>> Power, again, the Clayton connection. It was about that time that   

>> Graham began to write to Stuart Saunders. Graham Claytor was a  

>> lawyer  at a DC firm, not yet with the Southern, Bob Clayton was in  

>> N&W law  department, and still rising in the company, so had to  

>> maintain as  low a profile as possible. However, the Claytors knew  

>> Saunders  personally, not just another crazy railfan writing a  

>> letter saying to  save this stuff.  Graham was very determined,  

>> visiting, writing  frequently about it. He suggested keeping the  

>> 611 in operating  condition for a potential transportation museum  

>> in Roanoke that was  being talked about, and finally came to pass  

>> in 1963. There was even  an evaluation done by N&W in 1962-63 to  

>> put 611 back into operating  condition, estimated to cost about  

>> $5,000 then.

>>

>> Anyway, that is a round about explanation of why the 611, not  

>> because  it was chosen, but it was the last survivor, then and now.

>>

>> Ken Miller

>>

>>

>> On Jun 4, 2010, at 8:43 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:

>>

>>> Thank you Mr. Miller.

>>> Back to the original question. Was the 611 saved because of its   

>>> good condition, or was it just the only "J" available?

>>> Gene A.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing- list at nwhs.org 

>>> >

>>> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

>>> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 11:01 PM

>>> Subject: Re: Why the 611?

>>>

>>>

>>>> Link liked to believe he was responsible for saving the 611,   

>>>> however he had nothing to do with it.

>>>>

>>>> Copies of correspondence I have regarding the saving of 611 lie   

>>>> solely with W. Graham Clayton, his personal appeal to Stuart   

>>>> Saunders and repeated efforts resulted in the 611 being saved,  

>>>> not  scrapped. Graham's letters begin about late August 1959. I  

>>>> is  covered in my book on the Class J.

>>>>

>>>> There is absolutely no mention, ever, of Link's involvement or  

>>>> inquiry. Behind the scenes also working to save a J was Robert B.  

>>>> Claytor, then in N&W law department with some additional help of   

>>>> C.E. Pond as well.

>>>>

>>>> This was covered in my book on the Class J, published in 2000.

>>>>

>>>> Ken Miller

>>>>

>>>> On Jun 3, 2010, at 7:51 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> In one of the early videos, I believe "Queen of the fleet",   

>>>>> Mr.   Link explains that the 611  was in the Yard at Roanoke  

>>>>> ready to   send for scrapping. He called one of the Officials  

>>>>> and suggested   that is should be set aside and saved. The 1218  

>>>>> was being used as  a stationary boiler some where up North.

>>>>> Gene A.

>>>>> Gloucester, Va.

>>>>> ________________________________________

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