"Bottling the Air"

[NW Mailing List]

Interesting discussion and I appreciate the responses. One more question: If
you let bleed the air out of train car, can you not move it unless you hook
it up to an air supply from a locomotive?

Mike Weeks
Brody School of Medicine
Greenville NC

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 5:20 PM, NW Mailing List
<nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>wrote:


>  When I started working as a car inspector on SCL in 1971 at Collier, the

> yard foreman(Conductor) bled the cars off when he walked and put on the

> chalk marks indicating the track number that the cars were to be switched

> into.

>

> Walt Gay

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> *From:* NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> *To:* NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> *Sent:* Monday, October 25, 2010 1:57 PM

> *Subject:* Re: "Bottling the Air"

>

>   Jim,

>

> The process of getting the cars bleed off, at least at Roanoke, has changed

> through the years. Thirty years ago (and before), N&W employed "air

> bleeders". These men's sole job consisted of bleeding the air off the trains

> after they arrived in the receiving yard. Either before, or after, the car

> department finished inspecting an inbound train, the air bleeders, as

> instructed by the yardmaster, would walk the entire train, bleeding the air

> off all the cars, except, leaving enough air and/or handbrakes to ensure the

> cars would not move.

>

> When a yard engine was coupled to a track to hump, the brakeman would then

> remove any remaining brakes (air or hand).

>

> At the present time, the bleedding of the cars is handled by the car

> department (car knockers, car monkeys, etc), who bleed the cars as they

> inspect the inbound trains. Train or yard crews still handle the brakes, as

> necessary.

>

> Jeff Sanders

>

> --- On *Mon, 10/25/10, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>* wrote:

>

>

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: Re: "Bottling the Air"

> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 12:41 PM

>

>  What was done at Bluefield was simply a variation of what they still do

> in "hump" yards (where retarders are used instead of riders). Which makes me

> wonder - how do they go about releasing the brakes on cars that are humped?

> I can see the men working the cut levers at the Radnor hump in Nashville,

> but I don't see them doing anything with the angle cocks. In Bluefield there

> were riders in proportion to the length of the cut to do the braking, and

> there was a big motor car which brought the riders back up to the scale

> house. Once in awhile, not enough riders would get on a cut, and there would

> be a big derailment when the cut got down to the cars already at the east

> end.

>      As to the length of time to pump up an entire train, that is why N&W

> put the second air pump on the S1a's and retrofitted the S1's. I can

> remember a railroader saying that the first S1's assigned to Williamson took

> a long time to pump up the train. (they were accustomed to the two pumps on

> a Z1a) Shortly afterward, the 200 came out of Roanoke with two pumps. How

> C&O got by with one pump all those years is a mystery. They obviously had a

> different operating philosophy from N&W.    Jim Nichols

>

>  ------------------------------

> *From:* NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> *To:* NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> *Sent:* Mon, October 25, 2010 10:12:46 AM

> *Subject:* Re: "Bottling the Air"

>

> Gene

>

> Technically I would seriously doubt that.

>

> What was done on what you saw, and someone who actually was a

> brakeman/conductor like Jeff could confirm. In Bluefield yard, and other

> places, the cars were set out on tracks, and a certain number of cars had

> hand brakes tied down. That would depend on the size of the cut as to how

> many brakes were tied down. Once hand brakes were tied down, the switch

> engine would cut off, the air on the cut was dumped, causing an emergency

> application, but hand brakes had already been applied. Over time, the air

> system would leak off, depending on how long they had sat.

>

> Once the yard shifter came in and coupled on to the cut, and applied its

> independent brake (for the locomotive) to hold it all in place. The brake

> systems on the cars had probably sat long enough that most if not all the

> air had bleed off the system, but the brakemen would walk along the cut to

> the triple valve on each car, and bleed off the remaining air, to release

> all air brakes. The brakemen did not couple the air line, therefore the hand

> brakes were all that would hold the cut. The hand brakes would still be on,

> once the air had been bleed, the brakemen would go along and release the

> hand brakes, the switch engine would pull back out, with the cut, into the

> clear, then shove the cut towards where they were to be put, if they were

> sorting cars, one man would pull the cut lever between the cars, and a

> brakeman would ride the cut, if needed for controlling the speed with the

> hand brake, while the cars rolled down into its track and couple with the

> other cars in that track, the brakeman would tie down the hand brakes, and

> the go back and do it again with another cut, etc.

>

> Generally handing rolling cars, not coupled to a locomotive, was rarely

> done with air in the system. As Harry reported, air pumping can take some

> time to fill the entire train line. You used to see with the diesels,

> running at high RPMs while standing, the engineer, is running the diesel up

> to run the compressor faster, and pump air through the train quicker. A

> number of factors can determine how long it takes to pump a train,

> including, of course, train length, cold weather, how many leaks are in the

> system and how much initial terminal time that crew wants to report on their

> time sheet! I've heard of occasions where it would take several hours of

> pumping time to release all the brakes in a coal train.

>

> In my younger days, when I was riding my bicycle down to the track, I'd sit

> and watch, and see eastbound coal trains get stopped by the signal at VN

> before going into South Yard, once the signal cleared, it might take them

> 30-45 minutes to pump air before they moved, and that was in good weather.

> They were great days, and I wish I had the interest and time to do that

> today, but alas, I have neither today.

>

> Ken Miller

>

>  On Oct 25, 2010, at 9:12 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:

>

>  Ken;

>

>  Bluefield had a natural grade in both the East and West yard with the

> high point being in the area of the Round House. I remember as a young

> fellow in the East End of Bluefield, watching the "yard shifters" sorting

> the cars. There would be a number of cars released to freely roll to an

> appointed switch to make up trains. The Yard brakeman with his brake stick

> would control the speed until making couple with the other cars. I remember

> watching the men try to time the coupling just right and jump up in the

> air so as to miss the coming jolt of the sudden stop. I assume that free

> roll had to be done by "bottling the air", which was a common practice even

> in the late 50's. Also I remember watching "road shifters" push cars up to a

> speed and then stopping the locomotive allowing the cars to run freely

> though a switch, either coming to a stop on their own, or making couple with

> other cars.

>

> Gene Arnold

>

>

> "Bottling the air" which I think, is now prohibited by most rule

> books, means to close the angle cock (air line) on both ends of the

> car or cut of cars before separating them from the train. That way,

> air stays in the system, and does not dump the air to emergency on

> that car or cut of cars. It is, among other things, made to speed up

> operations, as with air already in the train line of those cars, it

> means that the locomotive air compressor, does not have to run as long

> to pump air back into the system, which can be a considerable amount

> of time, meaning the crew can get underway sooner.

>

> If the air is dumped from the car or cars, it sets those brake systems

> into emergency, and to release those brakes, the air system has to be

> pumped up again from the locomotive. By bottling the air, it means

> that only hand brakes, or chocks may be holding the cut of cars in

> place, which can lead to a drift off, or runaway, or difficulty

> coupling if the brakes are not holding well.

>

> Ken Miller

>

> ________________________________________

> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org<http://us.mc840.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NW-Mailing-List@nwhs.org>

> To change your subscription go to

> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list

> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at

> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

>

>

>

> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----

>

> ________________________________________

> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org<http://us.mc840.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NW-Mailing-List@nwhs.org>

> To change your subscription go to

> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list

> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at

> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

>

>  ------------------------------

>

> ________________________________________

> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org

> To change your subscription go to

> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list

> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at

> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

>

> ------------------------------

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3218 - Release Date: 10/25/10

> 02:34:00

>

>

> ________________________________________

> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org

> To change your subscription go to

> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list

> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at

> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/attachments/20101025/18cfb2ac/attachment-0001.html>