L/R number plates on N&W home signals

[NW Mailing List]

I don't recall the exact date, but until sometime in the 1950's N&W home 
signals were designated, for example, as "22L" or "22R."  The numbers and 
letters corresponded to the numbers on the control machines at the 
controlling towers or dispatchers offices.  "22L" controlled a westward 
movement for the signal, and "22R" controlled an eastward movement.  They 
were eventually removed.

Louis Newton

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Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 83, Issue 26


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> Today's Topics:

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>   1. Re: VGN in 1912--Injury (NW Mailing List)

>   2. Re: Interlocking tower locations (NW Mailing List)

>   3. Re: Interlocking tower locations (NW Mailing List)

>   4. N&W in 1912--DT&I (NW Mailing List)

>   5. L/R Number Plates on N&W Home Signals, And Other Matters

>      (NW Mailing List)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:04:36 -0400

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: Re: VGN in 1912--Injury

> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Message-ID: <SNT103-DS5212A44D0E4F16FAF2E5E92E30 at phx.gbl>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>

> Gordon,

> Would you please provide the topo map quadrant name?  I share your 

> clippings with a cousin who is a history buff.  She is also doing a family 

> genealogy and many of her father's side of the house came from that area 

> of Giles County mentioned in this clip.   She would like to get a copy of 

> the map for her research.

> Many thanks for your help and for sharing these tid-bits of local history.

> Rick Huddle

> Delaware, OH

>  ----- Original Message ----- 

>  From: NW Mailing List<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

>  To: 4VGN Ry Yahoo 

> Group<mailto:VirginianRailwayEnthusiasts at yahoogroups.com> ; 3N&W Mailing 

> List<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

>  Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 4:55 PM

>  Subject: VGN in 1912--Injury

>

>

>  Bluefield Daily Telegraph

>  Fri., May 17, 1912

>

>  PRINCETON DAY BY DAY

>  ------

>  Brakeman Nickle Injured

>  On Wednesday evening at Sinking Creek in Giles county, T. J. Nickle, a 

> brakeman, while on an engine on the Virginian railway, slipped and fell, 

> falling a distance of forty feet and suffering internal injuries. He was 

> brought to the Princeton Hospital Wednesday night and will undergo a 

> surgical operation. At the time of the accident, the engine was standing 

> on a bridge, Nickle falling from the engine under the bridge. Strange to 

> say there were no bones broken nor any outward wounds other than a few 

> small bruises.

>  ------

>  [Topo maps show Sinking Creek flowing east to west in Giles County, and 

> true to its name sinks in the porous limestone near New River.  These maps 

> show the mouth of Sinking Creek (or at least its dry creek bed) located a 

> mile or two west of Eggleston on New River.]

>

>  Gordon Hamilton

>

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> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 2

> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:32:52 -0400

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: Re: Interlocking tower locations

> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Message-ID: <C9A7BEC448AD43479F72B5D9B033D44A at JeffCareyPC>

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>

> Ron -

>

> Forest is several miles west of Lynchburg at the N214.6.  Jack is just 

> west of Petersburg at N88.3.

>

> Jeff Hawkins

>

> www.railsinvirginia.com

> www.railfirephotography.com

>

>  ----- Original Message ----- 

>  From: NW Mailing List

>  To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

>  Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 1:53 PM

>  Subject: Interlocking tower locations

>

>

>  Can anyone tell me where 'FOREST' and 'JACK' Interlocking towers were 

> located (division / milepost)?

>

>  Ron Stafford

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

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> Message: 3

> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:55:26 -0400 (EDT)

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: Re: Interlocking tower locations

> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

> Message-ID: <142b1.6d6df5f4.3d17cd8e at aol.com>

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>

> According to some N&W employee timetables kindly included in the NWHS

> Annual Convention book:

> -Forest is located where the west end of the Lynchburg Belt Line joined 

> the

> main line through downtown Lynchburg.  Measured from Crewe, it's 81.07

> miles west of Crewe via the main line and 79.47 miles from Crewe via  the

> Lynchburg Belt Line.

> - Jack is located where the west end of the Petersburg Belt Line  joined

> the main line through Petersburg.  It is 85.90 miles from Norfolk  and 

> 41.19

> miles east of Crewe.

>

> Dave Phelps

>

>

> In a message dated 6/23/2012 3:51:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

>

> Can anyone tell me where 'FOREST' and 'JACK' Interlocking towers  were

> located (division / milepost)?

>

> Ron  Stafford

>

>

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> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 4

> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:19:25 -0400

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: N&W in 1912--DT&I

> To: "3N&W Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Message-ID: <AED6BC442EB64833A58B5549BDF81172 at DellVostro>

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>

> Bluefield Daily Telegraph

> Sat., May 18, 1912

>

> JOHNSON'S SUCCESSOR HAS NOT BEEN NAMED

> ------

> Much Speculation But No Official Announcement Made by Railroad

>    There have been no appointments on the Norfolk and Western, and 

> although there has been a great deal of surmise regarding who Mr. 

> Johnson's successor might be, it has been all surmise as it has been 

> learned from very good sources that George P. Johnson has not resigned as 

> general superintendent of the western division of the Norfolk and Western. 

> When he will resign depends upon himself, and there can be no appointments 

> until Mr. Johnson does formally resign, which may not be for some time, if 

> at all.

>    There are a number of rumors regarding the situation, but they are 

> mostly rumors, and like all shop track talk may be in line with what is 

> going on and may be premature insofar that the predictions may never come 

> to pass, or may come to pass soon.  One rumor has it that Mr. Johnson has 

> not definitely decided to stay with the Detroit, Toledo & Ironton, and 

> will not do so unless he has full charge of the line in every respect. 

> Car No. 2, his private car, has been returned to this city and he, 

> himself, is in Detroit, having gone there in the private car furnished the 

> chief official by the road.

> ------

> Gordon Hamilton

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> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 5

> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 03:08:12 +0000 (UTC)

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: L/R Number Plates on N&W Home Signals, And Other Matters

> To: N&W Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Message-ID:

> <269214718.1571151.1340593692866.JavaMail.root at sz0174a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>

>

>

>

> Someone recently wrote me inquiring about the N&W's practice in putting 

> number plates on its Position Light home signals.? (Most railroads 

> plated?only the automatic block signals, and the absence of a number plate 

> served as a reminder that a signal without one was a home signal.)? My 

> response to the query trails.? Not wishing to start any fights or be 

> inflamatory, and hoping that my humble musings may be heuristic in 

> some?way for others who think about such historical matters ...

>

> ?

>

> -- abram burnett.

>

> ?

>

> /////////////////////////////

>

> Jim et al:

>

> ?

>

>

>

> The N&W did several inscrutable things with its PL signals. Things that 

> seem strange to us, working with the full PRR PL signal system.

>

> ?

>

>

>

> As background, one must understand that the N&W, beginning with its first 

> PL automatic block signals about 1928 on the Shenandoah Division, and then 

> continuing with its full CTC PL systems of the 1940s, chose NOT to adopt 

> en bloc the entire system of PL signaling that the PRR, US&S and Corning 

> Glass Works had perfected. RATHER, the N&W chose to have its PL signals 

> simply replicate the position of the old semaphore arms. In some cases, 

> this resulted in THREE full arms/backgrounds on some signals, with an 

> ADDITIONAL single marker light at the bottom (indicating that it was a 

> home signal... a very old usage in the signal business.) This accounts for 

> the monstrously high PL signal masts that survived on the N&W right up 

> until the end. That old bottom single "marker light" apparently survived 

> as the "stop and stay" marker in later N&W practice.

>

> ?

>

>

>

> Nor did the N&W fully commit to the PRR's speed signaling system. The 1945 

> N&W Rule Book does associate "Medium Speed" and "Slow Speed" with some of 

> the aspects, but later even that was dropped, and the signals became 

> simply route signals giving only "diverging" indications (and the 

> engineman had to use his Time Table to figure out the speed allowed over 

> any given switch by a "diverging" aspect.) What an absolute waste of a 

> good signal system... especially since someone else had already paid for 

> all the R&D work.

>

> ?

>

>

>

> Another anomally in the N&W signal system is the placing of signal number 

> plates on home signals (with L or R prefixes, for Left or Right.) ?These 

> numbers, of course, correspond to the numbers of the controlling levers, 

> with L or R indicating Left or Right position of the lever (and movement 

> of the trains) as the signalman faced the machine.

>

> ?

>

>

>

> Yet another anomally is that the N&W PL dwarf signals did not display a 

> Slow Approach indication. Rather, what we would call the Slow Approach 

> aspect was, for the N&W, a Restricting. Another waste, since all four lamp 

> housings were already on the PL dwarf signals and it would have taken only 

> one more relay to give the Slow Approach. I think this also shows the 

> "semaphore mentality" that probably prevailed in the N&W Signal Department 

> at the time they were installing their system.

>

> ?

>

>

>

> Nor did N&W adopt the very "transparent" relay and wiring nomenclature 

> system standardized by the PRR, and N&W prints for signal system wiring 

> are rather unfriendly, in my opinion.

>

> ?

>

>

>

> So it appears that the N&W people designed their own signal system and 

> simply chose the PL's for their field hardware, being tied to an older 

> "semaphore mentality" without a lot of reference to what was going on 

> elsewhere in the world of signaling.? (On the other hand, the N&W was very 

> quick to adopt US&S's Coded Track Circuits very shortly after they were 

> invented.)

>

> ?

>

>

>

> But, in all fairness, it must be said that the N&W did not face the same 

> problems as the PRR with its 4-track system, much higher speeds, massive 

> terminals, truly huge interlockings, and trains following each other on 

> close headways.

>

> ?

>

>

>

> I wish I could have talked with some old timer who worked in the N&W 

> System Signal Office and was around during the 1930s and early 1940s, but 

> I never met such a man. Hopefully the N&W Historical Society archive at 

> Shaffers Crossing, West Roanoke, will some day discover a huge box of 

> Signal Department materials with all kinds or correspondence from the 

> 1920s, 1930s and 1940s. Without that kind of documentation, we're just 

> kinda guessing about why they did what they did.

>

> ?

>

>

>

> BTW, I'd be pleased to have my email addy placed on any signal 

> distribution lists of your friend Dick and his confreres.

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