End of Service for VGN EL-2B Streamliners
NW Mailing List
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Fri Oct 26 09:07:58 EDT 2012
Gordon:
Thanks for the update! Here's a nice site on the Alco version; I couldn't
find anything about GE-built versions. Some on "low cab" 44 ton
switchers, but that's not the same.
_http://www.harpoondatabases.com/encyclopedia/Entry2750.aspx_ (http://www.harpoondatabases.com/encyclopedia/Entry2750.aspx)
(Mr. Moderator, we promise to return to N&W topics real soon!)
Dave Phelps
In a message dated 10/26/2012 8:16:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
Dave,
Yes, GE produced this "universal" locomotive. We were told that by the
time it had been equipped with all of the "universal" apparatus, it's weight
would have exceeded the specified light axle load limit dictated by the
light rail infrastructure in many foreign countries, so the superstructure of
the locomotive was made of aluminum to keep the axle loading within limits.
As I recall, this locomotive was out-shopped in its narrow-gauge version,
which caused no problem on the multi-gauge GE test track.
Gordon Hamilton
----- Original Message -----
From: _NW Mailing List_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
To: _nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: End of Service for VGN EL-2B Streamliners
Gordon:
Thank you very much for sharing these wonderful experiences!
Yes, all rectifier locomotives and EMU cars must have smoothing reactors
to reduce the a.c. ripple riding on the d.c. to a level that will allow the
conventional d.c. traction motors (which really do NOT like this a.c.
component!) to commutate without excessive sparking. Of course, the smoothing
reactors had a significant electromagnetic field associated with them, as
you describe, and experience such as the one you describe quickly reminded
folks of the need to shield the surroundings. Proper orientation helped,
but brute force steel shielding was often needed. Out of curiosity I looked
at the smoothing reactor on 135 when it was parked down near the Link
Museum last year (it's clearly visible under the locomotive) and it's well
shielded.
The mercury arc tubes used as rectifiers were pretty rugged and reliable,
but still inherently a weak spot. When silicon rectifier cells of
sufficient rating were available, changeout was a no-brainer. The last few E-44's
were build with silicon cells instead of mercury arc tubes, and if I'm not
mistaken all were eventually retrofitted. I was told that the mercury arc
tubes were what limited the rating to 4400 "diesel equivalent" hp. and that
the changeout to solid state rectifiers allowed a 5000 hp "diesel
equivalent" continuous rating. The Budd-built "Silverliner" EMU cars used mercury
arc tubes in a phase-control mode* (silicon-control recitfiers - SCR's - of
sufficient rating were not yet available), and we quickly discovered that
going around curves, centrifugal force would pull the pool of mercury away
from the igniters and cause the cars to lose power. Fortunately the tubes
had two igniters (the thought had been to use one and have the other as a
spare), so they were quickly rewired to put the two in parallel. I never
heard of this being a problem on EP-5s, EL-Cs or E-44s.
(*These tubes - two "back to back" - were placed between the transformer
secondary and the rectifiers [which by then, 1962, were solid state]. By
firing the tubes "on" at varying places on the a.c. wave, the output voltage
could be controlled to regulate the current. Once the polarity of the a.c.
wave reversed, the tubes automatically shut off and waited for the next
"turn on" pulse to the igniter.)
I wasn't aware GE had build any of the "universal" locomotives. I knew of
the Alco versions (called "MRS-1" for "Military Road Switcher") which had
GE electrical equipment (I *think* 539 engines; they were rated 1000 HP).
There were several at Ft. Eustis when I was there for OCS and "commanding a
desk" in 1966-1969. They belonged to the 714th Railway Operating
Battalion. I'm not sure if they were left-over WWII units or new production. I
thought the latter and may have documentation in my archives somewhere, but I
could be mis-remembering, it's been known to happen!
I only took the NKP-DL&W Chicago-New York sleeper once, but will never
forget waking up to the beauty of the Delaware Water Gap from the eastbound
Lake Cities. My one west-bound trip on the NKP was Erie-Chicago the weekend
the North Shore quit running. Unfortunately by then NKP passenger service
was no longer PA's; we had two steam-generator road switchers, a GP and
NKP's only steam generator Alco road switcher. I came back on the New
England States as the NKP schedule just didn't work for getting home Sunday
evening to go to work Monday morning. Y'all with good memories will recall that
it snowed like **** that weekend; the 'States made an unscheduled
refueling stop at Collingswood "just in case."
Thanks again!
Dave Phelps
In a message dated 10/25/2012 12:22:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
Dave,
Your mention of the New Haven Class EP-5 electric locomotives reminds me
of a story about them that I heard from a fellow Mechanical Engineering
student at VPI (now Virginia Tech) in the 1955-56 time frame. He was Gerald
Healy (spelling?), who had worked in GE's Locomotive and Car Equipment
Department at Erie, PA, but who had just recently left to go back to school.
He said that the first EP-5 to be completed was tested on GE's test track
there with a number of important observers to witness the event.
Initially, the light locomotive was run back and forth on the test track and
performed beautifully. Then someone noticed ten loaded cars of coal on the
powerhouse track and suggested that the new locomotive be coupled to them and
pull them up and down the track.
According to Gerald, after the air was pumped up on the cars and the
brakes released, the engineer pulled back on the controller handle to start the
train, but the locomotive just made a strange noise and could not budge the
ten cars! He said there was consternation among the observers that this
supposedly powerful locomotive could not pull 10 loaded cars!
As Gerald explained it, these locomotive used mercury arc rectifier tubes
to convert the AC from the trolley wire to DC for the traction motors (like
the VGN EL-C's), and they had "smoothing reactors" to smooth out the
rectified current. The problem was that the reactors were placed near the
rectifier tubes and the reactors developed a magnetic field somewhat
proportional to the current passing through them. When the locomotive was operating
light, the current was low enough that the magnetic field of the reactors
created no problem, but when the current was increased in the attempt to
start the ten loaded cars, the magnetic field of the reactors was sufficient to
extinguish the arc in the nearby rectifier tubes! Obviously, some "fix"
was made for this problem.
Your quote of the remark by the New Haven folks that "GE had learned a lot
about packaging the rectifier equipment since the EP-5's" appears to lead
credence to what Gerald told me.
Incidentally, after VPI I was drafted into the Army and eventually
assigned to the Signal Research and Development Laboratories at Fort Monmouth,
where I was assigned to a radio interference suppression section. One
assignment, in company with a civilian engineer, was to GE at Erie to run
interference tests on a "universal" diesel locomotive that GE had built for the US
Army. This locomotive could be adapted to various track gauges, various
coupler arrangements and either air or vacuum brakes. We set up our
receivers along the test track and checked the unit for compliance with military
radio interference specifications. I even got a short ride on the test
track. I heard later that this locomotive saw service on the Rio Grande narrow
gauge, but I have often wondered about its ultimate disposition.
While traveling out of Ft. Monmouth I took advantage of assignments like
this to ride trains whenever possible. For the Erie trip I took a PRR train
on the New York & Long Branch RR from Red Bank (near Ft. Monmouth) to
Newark, NJ where I transferred to the Newark Lackawanna station for a ride on
the DL&W's Phoebe Snow to Buffalo, NY, a fine trip except for the business
car coupled to the rear of the lounge car, blocking the view to the rear.
Buffalo to Erie was on the Nickel Plate Road. As I rode over this track on
the NKP passenger train I had no inkling that some twenty years later I
would be operating diesel locomotives and hauling freight over these same
tracks! The occasion was the 82-day N&W Clerk's strike of 1978, which saw
many N&W employees pressed into unfamiliar service to keep the freight moving.
During that time I logged some 11,000 miles running locomotives over the
248 miles of old NKP main line between Bellevue, OH and Buffalo.
The return trip from Erie was the same at the extremities, but instead of
returning on the DL&W I substituted a ride on the NYC's Empire State
Express where I had an unobstructed view out the rear of the lounge car on the
Water Level Route. This lounge car even had a short rearward facing bench
seat at the rear windows for those people (like me) who wanted to see the
railroad without getting a crick in their neck.
Gordon Hamilton
----- Original Message -----
From: _NW Mailing List_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
To: _nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: End of Service for VGN EL-2B Streamliners
Stewart:
You're thinking of what Vgn called the EL-C. The EL-2b's were the
two-unit (back to back) "streamliners." They had 25 Hz to DC motor-generator sets
to feed DC to their traction motors.
The rectifiers went straight from N&W to the New Haven in the summer of
1963, NH arranged for a service engineer from the GE New York office to come
to New Haven and check them out. As it happened, that summer was when I
was doing my three-month field assignment as part of my 21-month rotating
training assignments for what was then the Locomotive and Car Equipment
Department of GE, and I had been assigned to the NY Office for that assignment
(which was very convenient because we were living on Long Island at the
time). I was invited to come along for the inspection, which was a great
experience. The New Haven folks remarked that "GE had learned a lot about
packaging the rectifier equipment since the EP-5's."
Dave Phelps
In a message dated 10/21/2012 9:11:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
Hi Group, please forgive the ignorance of a Yankee member.- Were the VGN
EL-2b's, the "hood style" rectifier locomotives delivered by General
Electric to the VGN? If so, some of them came to the New Haven Railroad, probably
in the 1960's and probably by way of General Electric-Erie Works. They
passed from the New Haven into Penn Central then into Conrail. I'm a member
of the Railroad Museum of New England and the museum owns one of the units
in very faded Conrail blue and minus it's main transformer due to it's
concentration of PCB's in the transformer oil. It will never run again, there's
no main transformer and the 20 mile Naugatuck Railroad subsidiary of the
museum has absolutely no centenary.
Stewart Fritts
----- Original Message -----
From: _NW Mailing List_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
To: _NW Mailing List_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: End of Service for VGN EL-2B Streamliners
Sorry I can't answer all your inquiries about the EL2b's. I do have a
note, of which I do not remember the source, that says the EL2b's were
scrapped at the Peck Iron
& Metal Co. in south Richmond. Maybe this will jog someone's memory with
the details.
Jeff Sanders
From: NW Mailing List <_nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_
(mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org) >
To: _nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 1:59 PM
Subject: End of Service for VGN EL-2B Streamliners
I've seen several accounts of the end of the EL-2Bs which say they were
taken out of service and scrapped between 1959 and 1962. The early date is
clearly incorrect as McClure and Plant show several pictures in their book
of these motors in service into at least Oct. 1960. Can anyone clear up
the history of the final days of the EL-2Bs? When were they actually taken
out of service? Were they stored for a while before disposal? Were they
sent back to General Electric or were they scrapped by some local company?
If so, who, when and where? Many thanks for your help.
Tom
________________________________________
_NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org_ (mailto:NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org)
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
____________________________________
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
____________________________________
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
____________________________________
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - _www.avg.com_ (http://www.avg.com/)
Version: 2013.0.2741 / Virus Database: 2614/5846 - Release Date: 10/21/12
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
____________________________________
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
____________________________________
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - _www.avg.com_ (http://www.avg.com/)
Version: 2013.0.2741 / Virus Database: 2617/5853 - Release Date: 10/25/12
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/attachments/20121026/0af4bf76/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the NW-Mailing-List
mailing list