Concrete Water Tank

Mon Feb 16 22:40:50 EST 2015

Gordon,

You have information that I don’t.  In the Data Book No. II dated 8-21-51, it lists 17 water softening plants system wide but does not list either Roanoke or Shaffers Crossing.  It also lists 53 water treatment plants throughout the system (not just Virginia) which does not list Roanoke or Shaffers Crossing.  I do know that the annual reports mentioned the water system system at Shaffers and it capabilities but I cannot explain the discrepancy.

In my statement below, I was referring to the whole system not just Virginia.  My observation of the two water softening plant in Virginia was emphasizing the statement by those I interviewed that the best water for locomotive boilers was in Virginia and that water from the western portions of the system was especially hard on boilers even after being treated.  Looking at the locations of the softening plants validates this.

I am interested in any sources you have.  Also I will furnish any information I have for an article in the Arrow.

Bud Jeffries

From: NW Mailing List 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 11:46 AM
To: NW Mailing List 
Subject: Re: Concrete Water Tank

Bud,

In addition to the two named water softening plants in Virginia, we should include Shaffers Crossing in Roanoke--at 5,400,000 gallons per 24 hours, the largest on the N&W in 1951.

Also, in case someone gets the misimpression that these three softening plants constitute all of the N&W's water treatment plants in Virginia, we could point out that the same 1951 reference lists 24 (by my quick count) "wayside treating plants" in Virginia, in addition to the three water softening plants.

For some time previously I have toyed with the idea of combining some info that I have on N&W water treatment for its locomotives into an article for The Arrow, where the info would be disseminated more widely, so I'll be interested in any info that anyone can contribute on this subject.

Gordon Hamilton

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: NW Mailing List 
  Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 11:41 PM
  Subject: Re: Concrete Water Tank

  The tank in Radford was a “standard” design which came in two variations.  One was a 200K variety (like the one in Radford) and the second was 250K.  The difference was the 200K had only one tank for holding either treated or untreated water and the 250K had two tanks – one of 200K for treated water and 50K above holding untreated water.

  There were variations about where the water was treated.  Water could be treated before it enter the tank, in the tank, in the pipe to the stand pipe, at the base of the stand pipe or spout (when water was dispensed directly from the tank to the tender instead of using a stand pope), or even at or near the suction pump at a stream or other source.  

  Now about Radford's tank.  It had only the 200K tank which held raw water pumped from the New River.  The bottom of the tank was more than 20 feet above ground and the water was fed by an outlet pipe to the stand pipe by gravity.  With the tank full, the water level would have been about 50+ feet above ground resulting in plenty of pressure to the standpipe (there is 44 psi for every 100 feet of elevation).  At Radford the water treatment was done at the base of the standpipe.  The tank was at least a hundred yards from the stand pipe.  It probably (but I don’t know) did provide water to the tie treating plant and its three narrow gauge dinkies.  If it did, the water would have to be treated at the tie treating plant.

  The N&W in 1951 listed 17 “water softening plants”.  Two (at Vicker and Glade Spring) were in Virginia and the others were in West Virginia and Ohio.  It also listed 53 “wayside treating plants” which Radford was one.  In my interviews, a number of officials stated that the water in the area of southwestern Virginia was the best water for steam locomotives; although it was relatively hard, it was easily treated.  Water further west and especially in Ohio was the hardest to treat and caused a lot of boiler work because it created a lot scale even after treatment.

  Hope that someone who has knowledge of how water was treated and with what elements/compounds would come forth.  I have some information about proportions of what was used at the wayside treatment plants but I don’t know what the abbreviations mean.  Maybe someone can help on this.

  Bud Jeffries

  From: NW Mailing List 
  Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 9:23 AM
  To: NW Mailing List 
  Subject: Re: Concrete Water Tank

  On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 9:15 PM, Ed wrote:

    It appears to me that there would be no water in the structure below the level of the spout; what would be the  point of having to pump it into a tender?  It’s likely that all the space under that height would be empty.

  Given the location of the concrete tank in Radford, off on a side track and nowhere near the roundhouse or main line, I'll posit that the tank was a holding tank for raw water pumped from the New River. Once treated by the equipment in the room at the bottom of the tank, the softened water would then be pumped to another tank or tanks, from which tenders would be filled. I assume that the treated water would also be used in the boiler in the power house adjacent to the tie treating plant. Sounds like this could be a good article for The Arrow . . .

  Bruce in Blacksburg

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