Pocahontas consist Q & A

Sun Sep 27 13:50:10 EDT 2015

Rick:

Thank you for this detailed explanation.  However, I need you to  clarify 
the following two sentences:
"At Portsmouth train 3 picked up three more head end cars, two from  
Greensboro and one Washington-Cincinnati car (all from Southern Ry).   These cars 
were forwarded west in local train 23."  
Do you mean "These  cars had been forwarded west in local train 23." In 
other words,  N&W train 23 got them from the Southern in Lynchburg or Roanoke, 
but  they weren't put on train 3 until Portsmouth?

Thanks,

Dave Phelps  

In a message dated 9/27/2015 9:00:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

To answer Ray's question about how mail and  express cars which came east 
on N&W train 4 returned  west: Number 3 ran with only the BMf car Norfolk to 
Roanoke.   In Roanoke, two more express and storage mail cars destined for 
Cincinnati  were picked up.  One of these came from Petersburg on local train 
 7.  At Portsmouth train 3 picked up three more head end cars, two  from 
Greensboro and one Washington-Cincinnati car (all from Southern  Ry).  These 
cars were forwarded west in local train 23.  The  Washington-Cincinnti car 
came off The Tennessean at Roanoke along with a New  York-Roanoke car!  To 
complicate matters, not all these headend cars  operated every day of the week. 
 The Washington-Cincinnati car ran only  on Saturday.  After the demise of 
the  N&W locals, what was left of the interline mail and express business 
moved  to the name trains. Jim is correct that prior to the 1960's you did not 
see  box express cars running on most N&W trains, but you did on the 
Southern  run throughs. The term express car does not necessarily mean "box  
express." The mail and express cars on the Tennessean operated to and from  
Chattanooga except for the baggage-coach combine running on to the train's  
Memphis destination.

The Pocahontas had a heavier eastbound consist  than westbound.  The 
consist sheets show 15 cars between Williamson and  Roanoke on Thurs, Fri, Sat, 
Sunday.  So yes, a J had the capability to  handle so large a consist.  The 
best photo of this is in Norfolk  and Western Passenger Service 1946-71 by 
Warden and Ken Miller, page 36.  Fourteen cars, and 6 of them are heavyweights.

Who says passenger train operation and modeling  isn't interesting?

--Rick Morrison

From:  _NW Mailing List_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)  
To: _NW Mailing List_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)  
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 10:25  AM
Subject: Re: More on the Pocahontas  image

This is just a guess, but is based on the  fact that I don't remember 
seeing box express cars in the consist of the  Pocahontas. You say the cars 
originated in Cincinnati and Chicago. Perhaps  they came down the CNO&TP to 
Chattanooga and were put on the  Tennessean there. If so, the cars returning on 
the Pelican might have gone  back to Chattanooga on the Pelican. In other 
words, maybe the cars did not  run on the N&W main between Walton and 
Cincinnati. Just a  guess!

Jim  Nichols 

On Friday, September 25, 2015 5:56 AM,  NW Mailing List 
<nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>  wrote:

Rick,

Thanks for this interesting and helpful information.

Given your expertise demonstrated in your answer, you may be able to  help 
me with a consist question I have been unable to answer. Between 1960  and 
1964 I spent considerable time watching trains at Kemper St Station in  
Lynchburg. During that period No.46, The Tennessean, always has between two  and 
five mail cars attached to its end coming through Lynchburg. These were  
taken off at Monroe and put on Southern No. 19, the mail only train that  left 
Monroe about 6pm headed south.

My questions are:

1.  How did these mail cars get to Roanoke? As I recall they were  from 
Cincinnati and Chicago. Some were "box express" cars and some were of  the kind 
shown in the photo of No. 4 in Roanoke. While the most obvious  answer is 
that they came to Roanoke on No. 4, I have not seen  pictures  of No. 4 in 
Roanoke or points west with the box express cars. Further, I  question if No 4 
had the capacity to handle five of these mail cars  (sometimes fewer) as 
well as its other consist.

2. By what trains did these cars make their return trip west? I believe  
they came north on Southern No. 30. (The Peach Queen), were left in Monroe  
around 2:30am and picked up by No. 41 (The Pelican) about 4 am.  for  the trip 
west. But The Pelican went to Bristol and on south, so how did the  cars 
get back to Cincinnati and Chicago.  The Powhatan Arrow was the  next 
westbound train through Roanoke but we know the cars were not attached  to this 
train (or so I think because I saw No. 25 in Roanoke and points west  a number 
of times and never observed these cars in the consist).

Any insight you or anyone else can provide will be appreciated.  Thanks.

Ray Smoot

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 24, 2015, at 12:20 PM, NW Mailing List <_nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_ 
(mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org) >  wrote:

Rick is absolutely right. I am wiser now, and agree with  everything he 
asaid.

Jim Nichols

On Thursday, September 24, 2015 6:39  AM, NW Mailing List 
<_nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org) >  wrote:

Re: The Pocahontas Image.

Please look very carefully at the  far left of the photo from 
_railpictures.net_ (http://railpictures.net/) .  In front of the class Pg coach  is a BMf 
postal baggage with a shadow over the postal  apartment.  Behind the Pg 
coach is a Pm coach which would be highly  unusual for Trains 9 and 10.  That 
is why my logic tells me  this is the Pocahontas.

If anyone has any doubt about the postal car  on the Pocahontas in 1954 
check out these b&w photos.  The postal  car always ran ahead of the first 
coach, baggage end forward. The fifth  car in the Roanoke view is a Bmf postal 
baggage car scheduled Cincinnati  to Norfolk.  Three of the storage mail cars 
came off in Roanoke.  One went on to Lynchburg on train 10 (to Greensboro 
NC via Southern), the  other to Petersburg in Train 8. 

I will scan and submit separately train  consist sheets for Train 4 as it 
existed in March 1954.  I also  have sheets for Trains 9 and 10 if there is 
enough  interest. 

--Rick Morrison

Moderator:
http://nwhs.org/mailinglist/2015/20150924.NW_Pocahontas_1950_2nd_115.jpg
http://nwhs.org/mailinglist/2015/20150924.NW_Pocahontas_nr_Farmville_1953116
.jpg

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