Operations out of Wilcoe

NW Mailing List nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Mon Jan 11 07:57:46 EST 2016 

I for one am always interested in the operations of the branches.   It been ten years since I had the pleasure of exploring the old N&W. 

Tom Lewis
Jacksonville Fl

> On Jan 10, 2016, at 10:10 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> 
> If anyones interested, I can tell about what Wilcoe does now that its reopened. They average about 3 or 4 crews called out of there each day. 
> 
> -Chase Freeman
> Grundy,VA
> 
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 8:51 AM, <nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org> wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>    1. Re: Virginian AG's taken over by N&W (NW Mailing List)
>>    2. Merging the Virginia Division into the Pocahontas Division
>>       (NW Mailing List)
>>    3. Re: Virginian AG's  taken over by N&W (NW Mailing List)
>>    4. Re: Tug Fork Operations (NW Mailing List)
>>    5. Re: Virginian AG's  taken over by N&W (NW Mailing List)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 02:37:41 -0500
>> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
>> Subject: Re: Virginian AG's taken over by N&W
>> Message-ID: <mailman.3002.1452433785.20657.nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>> 
>> N&W merged with the Virginian in december 1959 virtually on the edge of
>> steam retirement. Lets just assume steam could continue way beyond that
>> date or the merger occur earlier. The A's were designed for a more
>> faster less graded level line for speed and some passenger service.
>> The Y's were already a proven success on the line. Why not an AG?
>> Technical differrences, N&W had in design a Y7 which would be a full
>> simple engine, no compound, they more than likely would have gone to
>> that design perhaps even one up the AG. N&W needed core power on the
>> Blue Ridge hills, their loco design work has always reflected that, when
>> they ran the smaller engines like 2-8-0's whatever, and looked for
>> better power then, they chose a 4-8-0 over 2-8-2 because they wanted to
>> get the most weight on the drivers, hence the M, M-1 and M2 and M2c.
>> Perhaps they could have found an operating home for the AG's, likely on
>> the aquired Virginian lines anyways since thats where they ran. I wonder
>> if there are any other details that might prevent them from using the
>> AG. Perhaps they would find a place on the mine runs.
>> It  would be a curious theory dig and see what others out there think
>> about this. They are clearly one of the most powerfull engines, they
>> were also more stocky, shorter than the Y's. 12 driving wheels versus 16
>> on the Y, is that a  weight issue on the N&W? Clearanced problems?
>> 
>> Its a good question there.
>> 
>> -Lynn-
>> 
>> 
>> On 1/10/2016 1:38 AM, nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org wrote:
>> > Subject:
>> > Virginian AG's taken over by N&W
>> > From:
>> > NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> > Date:
>> > 1/9/2016 4:25 AM
>> >
>> > To:
>> > "nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> >
>> >
>> > Members , here is a question from an Englishman
>> >
>> > I have read several books on the Virginian RR and Gene Huddlestones book
>> > on the H8
>> >
>> > My question is  :Why did the N&W mothball the 8 AG's it inherited from
>> > the Virginian. It seems to me that those 8 locomotives would have fitted
>> > in well with N&W "A" diagrams
>> >
>> > Geoff Burton
>> 
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>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 00:30:59 -0500
>> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Subject: Merging the Virginia Division into the Pocahontas Division
>> Message-ID: <mailman.3003.1452433826.20657.nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> 
>> From very credible sources that asked to remain anonymous ?.(and rumors and info from NS and railfan friends over the last several months):
>> 
>> On February 1st Norfolk Southern's Virginia Division will be merged into the Pocahontas Division.  The expanded Pocahontas Division headquarters will be in Roanoke along with all Division dispatching.  There is also a high probability that the West Virginia Secondary, currently part of the Pocahontas Division, (former NYC-PC-Conrail from Columbus to east of Charleston,WV) will be merged into the Lake Division.  A key driver in this is NS needing to reduce operating costs associated with the falling coal business that once made the Pocahontas Division overwhelmingly the greatest source of revenue for the N&W and NS.  Additionally?... as a result of CP?s attempts to buy NS, NS management is working hard to lower NS's overall operating ratio from the high 60?s to the low 60?s.  The expected cost savings realized by combining the Divisions will support this goal.
>> 
>> Ed Painter - Narrows,VA living in North Georgia
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 09:22:31 -0500
>> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Subject: Re: Virginian AG's  taken over by N&W
>> Message-ID: <mailman.3004.1452433847.20657.nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Geoff -
>> 
>> The VGN was merged into the N&W in late 1959.  N&W had decided to dieselize several years before, and the process was almost completed.  The Class A engines made their last runs before the VGN merger.  N&W didn?t ?mothball? the AGs; it scrapped them.
>> 
>> No VGN steam locomotives operated after merger date that I know of; the VGN itself had been dieselized before the merger date.
>> 
>> The AG was not a viable competitor for the Class A.  It was vastly overweight for its power output and was, IMHO, misapplied on the VGN ? even more so than the H-8 was on the C&O.  The H-8 was not designed to provide efficient transportation service to the C&O; it was designed to make a name for its designers by producing more drawbar horsepower than any steam locomotive yet built, and this it did.  But when measured in gross ton miles per train hour per dollar (first cost, operating cost, etc.) it was not in the same league with either N&W?s A or the Y-6.  The first H-8s weighed more than UP?s Big Boy ? more than 100 tons more than the A, and cost, on average, more than $100,000 per engine and tender more than the A.  These comparisons with backup figures can be found in the last chapter of someone?s book on the Class A which has been out for several years (it?s available through the Society).
>> 
>> But the 2-6-6-6 was impressive to look at, and Gene Huddleston was its most vociferous cheerleader . . .
>> 
>> Ed King
>> 
>> From: NW Mailing List
>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2016 4:25 AM
>> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
>> Subject: Virginian AG's taken over by N&W
>> 
>> Members , here is a question from an Englishman
>> 
>> I have read several books on the Virginian RR and Gene Huddlestones book on the H8
>> 
>> My question is  :Why did the N&W mothball the 8 AG's it inherited from the Virginian. It seems to me that those 8 locomotives would have fitted in well with N&W "A" diagrams
>> 
>> Geoff Burton
>> 
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>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 09:24:54 -0500
>> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Subject: Re: Tug Fork Operations
>> Message-ID: <mailman.3005.1452433860.20657.nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Alex -
>> 
>> You might refer the questioner to an article that appeared in The ARROW a while back entitled ?Flagging Instructions?.  It described in detail how trains were dispatched on the Tug Fork Branch.
>> 
>> Ed King
>> 
>> From: NW Mailing List
>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2016 7:08 AM
>> To: NW Mailing List
>> Subject: FW: Tug Fork Operations
>> 
>> I have received a request about operations on the Tug Fork. I expect members on the mailing list have firsthand knowledge and can provide better information than I can. Any help is appreciated.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Alex Schust
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To: Alex Schust
>> Subject: Tug Fork Operations
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Alex -
>> 
>> Can you provide any information concerning Tug Fork
>> operations circa 1950-52 regarding the following:
>> 
>> When trains ran backwards (in reverse) or when they
>> pulled backwards by running around their consist.
>> 
>> I assume on the the Sand Lick Branch (freight and
>> passenger consists) this happened from Filbert to
>> the Gary Wye at least.
>> 
>> I assume on the North Fork Branch they ran backwards
>> (freight and passenger consists) from Jenkinjones to
>> the Anawalt wye.
>> 
>> How was it done on the South Fork Branch from Munson
>> (No. 14) to the USC&C Cleaning Plant at Gary.
>> 
>> If the Cleaning Plant was fed by pushing cars onto the
>> car dump lead, where did the run-around of the consist
>> take place so the engine could get behind?  Thorpe siding?
>> 
>> Regarding passenger operations, besides the two examples
>> mentioned above (Sand Lick & North Fork),  and considering
>> there was no wye (that I know of) at Welch, it appears that at
>> least in one direction or the other passenger trains had to run
>> backwards at least to the Wilcoe turntable.  Can this be true?
>> The pictures I have seen show local passenger trains backed
>> into the Welch station which would mean, assuming no wye,
>> they would start off backing down the Tug Fork Branch.  They
>> could get to the other end of the consist by running around at
>> the first siding (Storage or Tuglum), but they would still be
>> running backwards although pulling their consist at least to
>> the Wilcoe yard.
>> 
>> One other thing I am looking for information on is how the
>> mine shifter that handled the North Fork keep the USC&C
>> coal loads seperate from the Pageton, Jenkinjones & Nassau
>> coal loads (ie. the coal going to the cleaning plant versus the coal
>> going to the Wilcoe yard for export east or other destinations
>> west).
>> 
>> Any information or insight you can provide on these items would be
>> greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> By the way, I enjoyed Gary Hollow so much I bought a second copy for
>> my aunt and uncle in Anawalt.  Also enjoyed Billion Dollar Coalfield as
>> well as the NWHS Tug Fork Book.
>> 
>> Thank you again, in advance, for any information you can provide.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> Message: 5
>> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 17:19:17 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Subject: Re: Virginian AG's  taken over by N&W
>> Message-ID: <mailman.3006.1452433872.20657.nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> N&W was almost all diesel by the time of the Vgn merger (late 1959) and was already scrapping their own steam. The AG's were not "mothballed;" they were sold for scrap, along with the last PA.
>> Jim Nichols
>> 
>>     On Saturday, January 9, 2016 7:09 AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>  Members , here is a question from an Englishman
>> I have read several books on the Virginian RR and Gene Huddlestones book on the H8
>> My question is ?:Why did the N&W mothball the 8 AG's it inherited from the Virginian. It seems to me that those 8 locomotives would have fitted in well with N&W "A" diagrams
>> Geoff Burton
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
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>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
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