Rusted hulks and the like, restoration, etc.

[NW Mailing List]

We  have a lot of steam locos that were recovered from near dereliction in  running condition on this side of the pond with two new main line steam locos fabricated from new. (Tornado and Prince of Wales. The name of the latter offends my republican sentiments). The financing of both of these was critical. A lot of people paying the equivalent of a pint of beer  a week soon got a fighting fund together to get Tornado built and operational. The same formula is being pursued by the T1 project and it should work. 

 

Having the skills base to overhaul and maintain steam locos is vital and this is being encouraged through apprenticeship schemes to teach a wide range of engineering  and related railway skills. It can be done!

 

Phil Mortimer 

 

 

 

From: NW-Mailing-List [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 11:51 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Rusted hulks and the like, restoration, etc.

 

Regarding conditions of preserved old steamers:

 

Many of today's rail geeks do NOT realize that when the railroads were kind enough to donate a steamer for park display or similar, especially as we got into the 1950's, those engines were in most cases beat to death and when they went to this fate, would have taken a whole bunch of work to make operable again. The railroads weren't foolish as they used up what was left in terms of flue time and other class repairs time which would have occurred had the item of today's adorations not been consigned to that permanent happy hunting ground roundhouse in the sky.

 

Yes there were and are exceptions and those which were brought back from the grave earliest as in the 1970's or even 1980's were among the best candidates for restorations as they had not literally rusted in place. Many are frozen from having sat unmoved and unlubricated, never minding vandalized to various extents,

 

In a few cases, like the N&W 611, there was someone around who lovingly and adoringly pumped lubrications thru its innards, thereby saving the item of everyone's dreams. Most others were not so fortunate and have sat in place, unmoved in a park as wind, rain, snow and ice took their slow, inexorable tolls. In other cases, museums or museum type settings sprung up and an item was used and cared for, often well-cared, for a time of operations, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

 

Somewhere around 1,500 to 2,000 American steam locomotives were not consigned to the scrap heap, most being smaller ones as it's not easy to move a 4-8-4 by truck to a park vs. moving and 0-6-0 or 4-6-2. Some parks or park-like settings were or are closeby a rail connection and the railroads often built a temporary one to move the heavy object a relatively short distance. Finances of the railroad were other factors in determining what did and what did not get saved. C&O was noteworthy in donating many steamers to parks. Also in many cases, a determined management to dispose of and get as much cash for those worthless, unwanted hulks off the property. In a few cases, warm-hearted management also existed. Look at the B&O which was bleeding financially - it saved little and nothing relatively modern, NY Central which had a determined policy to get rid of as much as possible thereby depriving us today of even one example today of arguably the most dynamic streamliner for its day, the Dreyfuss Hudson. N&W was more civic minded by even then only after a bunch of squabbling, but no New Haven, RF&P and little D&RGW standard gauge goodies were saved. Ditto for L&N as their modern 2-8-4's went to the scrapper barely out of the builder's wrappers, same for Western Maryland Potomac class and others. PRR needed the money and saved nothing even close to modern.

 

And the list goes on and on.

 

What survives today is perhaps more by luck and determination by a few. To keep it or them operable now is an expensive proposition both restoration wise and then afterwards for 15 years, not to mention insurance costs and a place for the old iron horse to roam as it once upon did everyday.

 

Some railroads have an absolute NO policy for even moving a dead-in-train steamer while on its own wheels, like CSX and that is indeed sad, but c'est la vie.

 

If you or we want one of the objects of a dream to run, then looking at it, whining about it, complaining about some club or museum mis-management of it is not going to change that, get the big bucks to restore and local sentiment to approve the changes. Many a time, it has taken that to turn the proper heads.

 

Recently one scenic railroad acquired a long-standing outdoors locomotive and declared it in great condition. This item had not ever been restored and had not run under its own steam since 1956; 60 years of rust and weather proved it wasn't THAT good, but is restorable. Even the object of so many adorations, the N&W J took over $500,000 to bring back to life, and it was well-cared for over 20 years and kept under cover..

 

Other groups have been trying for years, in some cases decades and when the time comes to pony up and pay the piper, only pennies come in, not the real enchilada. Witness the two Long Island steamers.

 

Less than ten years ago, the National Park Service did a grounds up restoration of the Harpers Ferry, WV train station. Cost in 2009? $1.2 million. When built new back in 1894 it cost less than $6,000 by the B&O.

 

You want the Bluefield engine to be better preserved - you've seen the formula. Likewise the 578 which probably wouldn't be that bad of a candidate since it has run -- as recently as the 1980's? But do the ground work and don't complain unless you can provide the skills needed whether it be management or sweat equity as both ends are needed, but usually it takes the professional managing skills first before the other comes into play.

 

Several decades ago, the N&W had such a leader and because of his rare skills we have the facility which in many ways almost manages itself today, largely because the up-front work was so professionally handled 15-20 years ago. There aren't many Jim Gillum's out there and the N&WHS was fortunate that he appeared when he did and led the group at a most critical time. Not many are so fortunate. Another such group with good vision and foresight is the Southern Railway group.

 

Lessons can be learned from both and others but it is one thing to have a building vision and get the $$$$$$ for it, another to mess around with a mechanical object.

 

Some PRR fans have a long-term dream and goal of a totally new T-1. Look at those cost numbers.

 

Talk is cheap, Unless you plan to walk the walk, don't just talk. DO.

 

end of soapbox.

 

Bob Cohen

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