a question about drawings in our archives

Tue Aug 7 10:34:50 EDT 2018

Thanks for the  very helpful and lucid answer.

As a piece of speculation I wonder what a Mk 2 1200 design might have looked like. Or would the Jawn Henry have been centre stage as a development option? Such a pity in my view it did not come up to expectations. I think the design concept was moving in the right direction with this technology set. It suffered from being a one-off prototype.

Regards

Phil Mortimer 

From: NW-Mailing-List [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 2:39 PM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: a question about drawings in our archives

It was quite expensive to create detailed mechanical drawings.  It was done only when it was anticipated that something was going to be built or modified.  Case in point was the Class Y7.

When the Class A was being first built in 1936, there were two schools of thought about what N&W needed for a single expansion engine.  One school was the 1200’s and then the other was a high horsepower engine like the A but with a tractive effort of the Y6’s.  There were sketches and diagrams drawn doing the preliminary phase to determine the needed capacity of the proposed locomotive.  This included basic cylinder and driving wheel dimensions and starting tractive effort as well as the anticipated boiler capacity.  When it was determined that the 2-8-8-2 single expansion engine was going to be built, the design phase began.  From early to mid 1937, about 100 mechanical drawings were made for the anticipated construction.  These drawing would have been used by the Roanoke Shops to build the Y7.  The work on the Y7 stopped after about 100 drawings were made.  My Giant of Steam book goes into some detail why the Y7 design process stopped and then cancelled all together in 1943.

To build the Class A’s, almost 1,000 drawings were developed for that engine involving about 20,000 man-hours of design work by the motive power mechanical design team.  These drawings were not done as “what-if” but were done on anticipated construction for a new type of locomotive.  So the Y7 was only about 10 percent done when its design phase stopped.  It was not continued because it was determined it was not needed.  The railway did do preliminary diagrams and sketches just didn’t do what-if mechanical drawings.

Bud Jeffries

From: NW Mailing List 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 6:14 PM

To: NW Mailing List 

Cc: 'Phil Mortimer' 

Subject: Re: a question about drawings in our archives

Hi Phil, as a partial answer.to your question (there are certainly many more knowledgeable folks on this subject than I am), but there were some exploratory drawings/sketches created that were actually something in between the class A and y6b as a potential "follow-up" design as you say.  The hypothesized Y7 was to be a simple articulated like the class A, but of a 2-8-8-2 configuration like the other y class locomotives.  If I recall correctly,  the dimensions were maximized to what could possibly be conceived that would fit though N&W's clearances (tunnels, bridges, etc.) I'm sure it would have been both impressive and glorious!  But the drawings I have seen of this proposed beast were only rough dimensions and a general conceptual outline,  vs. the type of detailed schematics I am referring to in the archives. 

So I come back to my original question, and hopefully some of our esteemed historians can shed some light here, how safe would it be to assume that if I find a drawing for a boxcar with a Climax roof, that at least one of such animal actually existed in real life, even if I can't find photographic Proof of such?

Was it common for the N&W to do such detailed diagrams for something that was only a "what-if"?

Brent 

___________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer

  _____  

From: NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org> on behalf of NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 7:02:07 AM
To: 'NW Mailing List'
Cc: NW Mailing List; 'Phil Mortimer'
Subject: RE: a question about drawings in our archives 

Good morning from the other side of the pond.

This is an interesting observation. The drawings of locos, railcars and passenger vehicles in my treasured 1947 Locomotive Cyclopaedia (Simmons Boardman) are real works of art and I assume originally drawn out by hand. How these were ultimately reduced for inclusion in a book is a mystery. The patient man hours that went into the development of these drawings must have been staggering but they are all meticulous.  

In relation to speculative designs I suspect that quite a lot of this sort of activity went on to sketch out what might be feasible/possible/desirable. I have in my office a drawing of a Baldwin Duplex that became the basis of the T1s on the Pennsy and a souped up Mallard type A4. It would have been neat to see both in reality. 

Regards

Phil Mortimer

PS Was there ever any evidence of follow on designs for the A Class or the Y6b?

From: NW-Mailing-List [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 10:26 PM
To: NWHS Mailing List
Subject: a question about drawings in our archives

I have on occasion prowled about the on-line collection of drawings in our archives and it is amazingly extensive.  It is also interesting to me the amount of detail that went into these drawings and they seem to encompass even the most subtle nuances of changes over time.  I have also found a few drawings of interesting things for which I have never seen prototype photos, so this brings about my question.  Given the time and detail involved in creating these documents, how often would N&W engage in such exercises, if they never actually got translated to something that was used?  Could there really be that many drawings done that were only "what-if" speculations?  Like "what-if" we wanted to add a Viking roof to a specific class of boxcar, then it would look like this, and "what-if" we wanted to add a Climax roof to that same class of boxcar, then it would look like this, etc. etc.   Can it be reasonably assumed(absent obvious photographic proof) that if there is a set of drawings showing a particular appliance installed on a particular car type that it was actually at least done once in real life?  Or was it common practice for these drawings to be created based upon pure speculation or the various component offerings of the different manufacturers  (ends, roofs, doors, lock systems, etc.) ?

Brent

  _____  

Dr. J. Brent Greer

  _____  

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