NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 192, Issue 10

Thu Nov 5 19:24:58 EST 2020

That was the one !!! Thanks Ken 
!! 

Take care,
Ken Tanner
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 5, 2020, at 1:33 AM, nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: Derailment near Glenvar, VA 10-30-2020 (NW Mailing List)
>   2. Re: Slide - RB35908 (NW Mailing List)
> 
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 10:00:23 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Derailment near Glenvar, VA 10-30-2020
> Message-ID: <mailman.5850.1604502068.10487.nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Thanks Gordon for putting a proper look on this subject.
> 
> While indeed the bridges on most railroads are now 100 plus years old, this particular one was built in 1909. People are too easy to blame the age of something for any kind of incident.
> 
> I have on very good authority, that the cause of this accident was not the bridge collapsing, but a broken rail causing a derailment at a bad location, where the cars derailed, and with no ground to catch them, began to plunge into the river, the pier was taken out by the 100 ton cars striking it, thus causing the bridge to collapse, the bridge did not fail, the battering ram of loaded cars took out the support, simple as that. If this accident had happened with no bridge involved, would simply be a pile up.
> 
> Remember too, that these bridges were designed in a day of far more conservative standards for heavy steam locomotives and trains. 
> 
> To quote the Federal Railroad Administration Guidelines on Bridge Safety Standards, 49 CFR Parts 213 and 237:
> 
> <snip> Many railroad bridges display superficial signs of deterioration but still retain the capacity to safely carry their loads. Corrosion on a bridge is not a safety issue unless a critical area sees significant loss of material. Routine inspections are prescribed to detect this condition, but determination of its effect requires a detailed inspection and analysis of the bridge. In general, timber bridges continue to function safely, and masonry structures built as early as the 1830s remain functional and safe for their traffic. Of the few train accidents that involved bridges, most have not been caused by structural failure. FRA accident records for the 27 years 1982 through 2008 show 58 train accidents that were caused by the structural failure of railroad bridges. <snip>
> 
> https://railroads.dot.gov/elibrary/bridge-safety-standards
> 
> This document also covers who is qualified to inspect, how often to inspect, and record keeping. 
> 
> The bridges are inspected closely, frequently and in depth, most folks think the railroads just let the stuff go until it breaks however, the above document covers in-depth some of the factors.
> 
> By the way, these bridge inspection rules apply to tourist railroads just like the big companies, as long as the tourist line is considered as coming under the FRA.
> 
> NS is already in process of replacing the bridge, and expects the job to be done fairly quickly.
> 
> So, before we jump to conclusions, lets get the facts. This was an accident, that lead to another accident with catastrophic effects, not a failure of infrastructure.
> 
> To answer Ken Tanner?s question, the wreck he is probably thinking of occurred on November 20, 1958 at the east end of Kumis, VA. A bit less than 4 miles railroad west of this location, where extra 135 east had a side collision with extra 128 west. It was covered in an Arrow article in issue Volume 13, issue 2, MarchApril 1997.
> 
> Ken Miller
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 1, 2020, at 6:48 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> As one who spent several years representing the Motive Power Department in the early 1980s on the three-man derailment investigation team (aka go team) for the Northern Region of the NS (remember when the former N&W was designated the Northern Region and the former Southern was designated the Southern Region?)  I will be interested from my arm chair to see what the determination of the cause of this accident will be.  I am not familiar of the particular bridge that collapsed, but with some knowledge of the sturdiness of the former Virginia bridges, I find it hard to believe that the bridge collapsed under the weight of the train, unless a pier or an abutment was somehow subject to excessive erosion from the river (doubtful).  Rather, it seems more likely that the train was derailed in advance of the bridge, and the derailed cars brought down the bridge.  I think this could be indicated by the aerial view of the derailment site published in the Roanoke Times which shows the crosstie
> s in approach to the bridge (bottom right in the image below) in great disarray as though one or more cars were derailed in approach to the bridge.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This is the view from my arm chair (no more calls at 2:00 a.m. to drive a couple of hundred miles to a derailment site), and I'll be interested to know what the investigation shows to be the cause of the bridge collapse.
>> 
>> Incidentally, this picture was taken for the Roanoke Times by David Hungate, the son-in-law of my friend Andy Stone.
>> Gordon Hamilton
>>> On 11/1/2020 11:13 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>> The road that went under this span is Barley Road.  I have a friend who lives west of this site on Barley Road.  Last year he and I visited this bridge and noted that it was built at the beginning of the last century as were many other viaducts and spans nearby on  the old VGN.  I wonder what NS will do concerning the others (like the one east of the Yateman  Viaduct} which seem to be in similar condition?
>>> 
>>> Skip Salmon
>>> 
>>>> On November 1, 2020 at 9:33 AM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>> The Roanoke Times has four photos taken later in the day. In one, it can be seen where one of the bridge piers was snapped off near the base.
>>>> 
>>>> See https://roanoke.com/news/local/norfolk-southern-train-derails-spills-coal-into-roanoke-river-in-western-roanoke-county/article_223cbbd6-1ba7-11eb-acc8-b332c9eaa349.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1 <https://roanoke.com/news/local/norfolk-southern-train-derails-spills-coal-into-roanoke-river-in-western-roanoke-county/article_223cbbd6-1ba7-11eb-acc8-b332c9eaa349.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1>
>>>> 
>>>> Bruce in Blacksburg
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> SKIP SALMON
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 16:23:13 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Slide - RB35908
> Message-ID: <mailman.41.1604525458.31814.nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
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> 
> Mike -
> 
> That is Bridge 14A spanning Holland Road (US 58 business) near Kilby.  The photo is looking west with the train being a westbound.  
> 
> Jeff Hawkins
> 
> www.railsinva.com
> www.railfirephotography.com
> 
> 
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List 
>  To: NW Mailing List 
>  Cc: NW Mailing List 
>  Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2020 10:17 PM
>  Subject: Slide - RB35908
> 
> 
>  This overpass in Suffolk.  Where is it?  What is the road?  Does the portal have a 90 degree angle in it?
>  Thank you,
>  Mike Shockley
> 
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> End of NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 192, Issue 10
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