Railroads, highways and growth of towns

NW Mailing List nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Thu Jun 1 11:25:42 EDT 2023 

Neill,

2 pieces of Georgia history that will fill in a bit more of what you've
said. (But may not be of particular interest for railroading.)
1. Georgia used to use what was called the "county-unit" system which gave
rural counties a significant political advantage in statewide elections. So
everyone and their brother created a county because then they got a vote.
Read more here if you're interested.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_unit_system
2. Counties were allocated state road/transportation money based on the
number of paved miles of road in each county. So the first thing any newly
elected governor did was pave every road in his home county. You can still
see the impact today in certain areas. (Bainbridge I remember in
particular, but it's been a while since I visited there.) Marvin Griffin
was the governor from there in the 50's.

Tom Fulton
---
Asheville, NC

On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 6:55 AM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
wrote:

> Neill Herring here in GA.  I have closely followed the history of highway
> construction and expansion in Georgia for several decades.
> I believe there is a development underway here, and perhaps elsewhere that
> may add to the history sketched by Bob Cohen.
> Georgia's smaller counties, among the excessive total of 159, have lost
> population steadily over my lifetime (born 1947), despite a jump in the
> state's population from 3 million to over 10 million today.
> Artful drawing of the maps of legislative districts since the middle of the
> 1960s have maintained a strong rural influence in the state legislature
> since that time, under the rule of both political parties.
> Rural legislators have consistently advocated for road improvements,
> generally putting those ahead of most other rural and small-town needs.
> About 20 years ago I noticed that towns with declining populations were
> being increasingly connected with 4-lane highways thanks to legislative
> pressures.
> Those same towns have continued to lose population with their 4 lanes, and
> the rate of decline may have actually increased in some cases.
> Expansion of retail shopping options in towns that used to be "too far
> away"
> seems to have played a role in retail siting decisions to the disadvantage
> of many locations.
> Transportation improvements have undoubtedly given much to the development
> of southern population centers, but it appears it can also adversely affect
> those locations to the advantage of the larger among them.
>
> -----Original Message-----
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Small Towns and Railroads (NW Mailing List)
>    2. Re: Small Towns and Railroads (NW Mailing List)
>    3. Small towns and railroads (NW Mailing List)
>    4. Re: Small towns and railroads (NW Mailing List)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 10:06:33 -0400
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>, NW Modeling List
>         <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Small Towns and Railroads
> Message-ID: <mailman.3349.1685542016.2544619.nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
> It is well-known in literary circles that before the coming of the
> railroad/s, towns tended to be about 5 or so miles apart so as to make for
> easier one-day travel from the farm to the market center of a region.
> Travel
> over those old, dusty roads, often rutted and questionably maintained at
> times depending upon the road were the norm and a wagon load maybe once a
> week or two behind a 2 or 4 horse team was a true adventure.
>
> Some of those towns grew in size and stature and when railroads came into
> planning, the planners wanted to bring their rails to where there could be
> waiting needs and services. Other even smaller communities which may have
> required even less had a water-tank, hence were called "tank-towns" for the
> obvious reason.
>
> As the railroad/s grew and expanded, so did their influence and
> adaptability
> for all kinds of goods and services. Those locales more accomodating grew
> more readily than others, as did those that had something needed like water
> or wood for fuel, etc.
>
> The N&W history, especially well-documented is the Shenandoah Valley line
> that for a $5,000 "inducement" ....... 'er bribe, shall we say, and the
> promise of availability of needed goods and services caused the creation of
> a little village named Big Lick from a small watering hole and salt source
> for cattle to The Magic City and Roanoke. How could brother Moomaw have
> ever
> thought that for the delivery of his promise in 1881 what became the center
> of business in the central valley and the heart of a large RR corporation.
>
> Once the RR's came to a region, those 5-mile distances could have been
> lengthened a bit as movement between became far easier than over a
> waggon-rutted, dirty non-macadamised pathway became less of a necessity.
>
> One need look no further than the line between today's Roanoke and Bristol,
> a distance of about 140/150 miles and the towns about every 5 or 10 miles
> apart. The same can be seen in the northern part of the Shenandoah Valley
> from Charles Town (today WV), thru Winchester to Lexington. Towns, some
> larger and more prosperous than other smaller ones have blossomed and grown
> and others faded to various degrees over time. Of course, today, the rails
> aren't as much an absolute necessity as 200 years ago, but the principles
> remain.
>
> end of simple history lesson for the day.
>
> Bob Cohen
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 14:23:48 +0000 (UTC)
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Small Towns and Railroads
> Message-ID: <mailman.3355.1685551328.2544619.nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have always wondered why Roanoke (Big Lick) grew & Salem, an older & more
> established town & already on the railroad, did not? I have read a book or
> two that refers to Salem (&nothing about Big Lick) during the Civil War
> (War
> of Northern Aggression) & the importance of the Virginia & Tennessee
> railroad. Was the difference all about Moomaw? Can someone give me the
> 'short version'?ThanksHerb EdwardsLynchburg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>; NW Modeling List
> <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Wed, May 31, 2023 10:06 am
> Subject: Small Towns and Railroads
>
> It is well-known in literary circles that before the coming of the
> railroad/s, towns tended to be about 5 or so miles apart so as to make for
> easier one-day travel from the farm to the market center of a region.
> Travel
> over those old, dusty roads, often rutted and questionably maintained at
> times depending upon the road were the norm and a wagon load maybe once a
> week or two behind a 2 or 4 horse team was a true adventure.
>
> Some of those towns grew in size and stature and when railroads came into
> planning, the planners wanted to bring their rails to where there could be
> waiting needs and services. Other even smaller communities which may have
> required even less had a water-tank, hence were called "tank-towns" for the
> obvious reason.
>
> As the railroad/s grew and expanded, so did their influence and
> adaptability
> for all kinds of goods and services. Those locales more accomodating grew
> more readily than others, as did those that had something needed like water
> or wood for fuel, etc.
>
> The N&W history, especially well-documented is the Shenandoah Valley line
> that for a $5,000 "inducement" ....... 'er bribe, shall we say, and the
> promise of availability of needed goods and services caused the creation of
> a little village named Big Lick from a small watering hole and salt source
> for cattle to The Magic City and Roanoke. How could brother Moomaw have
> ever
> thought that for the delivery of his promise in 1881 what became the center
> of business in the central valley and the heart of a large RR corporation.
>
> Once the RR's came to a region, those 5-mile distances could have been
> lengthened a bit as movement between became far easier than over a
> waggon-rutted, dirty non-macadamised pathway became less of a necessity.
>
> One need look no further than the line between today's Roanoke and Bristol,
> a distance of about 140/150 miles and the towns about every 5 or 10 miles
> apart. The same can be seen in the northern part of the Shenandoah Valley
> from Charles Town (today WV), thru Winchester to Lexington. Towns, some
> larger and more prosperous than other smaller ones have blossomed and grown
> and others faded to various degrees over time. Of course, today, the rails
> aren't as much an absolute necessity as 200 years ago, but the principles
> remain.
>
> end of simple history lesson for the day.
>
> Bob Cohen
> ________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 15:03:42 +0000 (UTC)
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NWHS LIST <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Small towns and railroads
> Message-ID: <mailman.3356.1685551340.2544619.nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Fascinating read by Bob Cohen on the impact the railroads had on towns as
> the rails were laid down.
> I have been heavily going through the archives for maps and drawings for
> the
> Cincinnati district, the Peavine.
> It is amazing the amount of work that was done on the line very early on.
> Surveys, line changes, seems like almost every inch was moved back then.
> Then the impact of the railroad had on all these little towns either
> directly having a business with rail service, or just the ability to get
> products to and fro much quicker the before the railroad came to town.
> Then there is the opposite effect. Highways, trucks and cars slowly began
> chewing away at the people and companies that had depended on the railroad
> were moving towards other modes of transportation.
> If you really did deep into the archives, it is a sad fascinating world
> that
> has gone by the wayside for the loss of industry America as a whole has
> lost.
> I had no idea how vast the history of the Peavine was until the archives
> beckoned me to explore, and now I am lost in history as are the small towns
> and railroads I am exploring.
>
> Jeff Wood
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 18:50:32 +0100
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Small towns and railroads
> Message-ID: <mailman.3373.1685561865.2544619.nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Richard Hood,
> West Dorset,
> England
> Over here before the invention of railways, unless you were rich (coach and
> horses) or in the military, no body travelled  more than 20 miles from
> their
> home village. By 1850 not only could you travel all over the country, but
> people moved too cities from the country as the industrial revolution
> provided good jobs.
>
> On Wed, 31 May 2023, 17:42 NW Mailing List, <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Fascinating read by Bob Cohen on the impact the railroads had on towns
> > as the rails were laid down.
> > I have been heavily going through the archives for maps and drawings
> > for the Cincinnati district, the Peavine.
> > It is amazing the amount of work that was done on the line very early on.
> > Surveys, line changes, seems like almost every inch was moved back then.
> > Then the impact of the railroad had on all these little towns either
> > directly having a business with rail service, or just the ability to
> > get products to and fro much quicker the before the railroad came to
> town.
> > Then there is the opposite effect. Highways, trucks and cars slowly
> > began chewing away at the people and companies that had depended on
> > the railroad were moving towards other modes of transportation.
> > If you really did deep into the archives, it is a sad fascinating
> > world that has gone by the wayside for the loss of industry America as
> > a whole has lost.
> > I had no idea how vast the history of the Peavine was until the
> > archives beckoned me to explore, and now I am lost in history as are
> > the small towns and railroads I am exploring.
> >
> > Jeff Wood
> > ________________________________________
> > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> > To change your subscription go to
> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
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