signal brackets

Wed Mar 27 20:57:14 EDT 2024

Larry:

For reference, N&W Operating Rules- 1981:

[image: Screenshot 2024-03-27 at 20.55.23.png]

On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 8:40 PM CG Tower <s141asheville at gmail.com> wrote:

> Larry:
>
> The N&W used route signaling here versus speed signals. So a Diverging
> Clear,  NS Rule 283 states:
>
> “Proceed through turnout or turnouts at prescribed speed”…
>
> Note “turnout/turnouts” and “prescribed speed”…the speed was dictated in
> the timetable…
>
> There is not a “full speed ahead” connotation in that rule what so ever,
> the indication also allowed for multiple turnouts.
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> > On Mar 27, 2024, at 20:32, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Eric, are you sure you’d get a Diverging Clear off #2? I never saw N&W
> use a diverging signal for a converging move. Also, diverge to a diverge
> should be Diverging Approach since there is no Diverging Approach Diverging
> (when you can’t display what it really should be, display something more
> restrictive - plus, Diverging Clear says “full speed ahead” after you clear
> the interlocking which is not what you want).
> >
> > --
> > Larry Stone
> > lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Mar 27, 2024, at 1:35 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Total senior moment here with that Interlocking at
> Chillicothe....oy....I was getting confused with when the B&O was still in
> place at the diamond. All that was removed in the mid 1980's.
> >>
> >> If you are on #1 track going west, you'd get "approach diverging" for a
> diverging clear at Scioto, and a return to the right hand or westbound
> track. If you were on #2 track, you'd get "diverging clear" off of #2 and
> onto the single track and you got another "diverging clear" at Scioto back
> on the westbound track. West of Scioto was ABS non directional signals.
> >>
> >> Sorry for the confusion there...needed to revisit my dusty brain
> archives...
> >>
> >> Eric /Columbus District
> >>
> >> On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 2:54 PM NW Mailing List <
> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> >> I’m not so sure about this. N&W practice was, unlike many other
> railroads, not to use diverging signals for converging routes. An engineer
> was required to know the physical characteristics of the route so did not
> need a signal to tell him that the only possible route was a converging
> with a speed restriction. Using a diverging signal for a converging route
> takes away information if there is also diverging route that should be
> protected (I experienced that on my Metra commute one morning where we took
> a diverging clear at a long interlocking and the engineer assumed that it
> was due to the 15mph switch 1/2 mile ahead at the far end of the
> interlocking when instead it was due to the 10mph crossover just beyond the
> signal - oops. Yes, he had to dump it and we went through the crossover
> well above 10mph but without incident).
> >>
> >> From my days working on the Scioto Division 40+ years ago, my timetable
> from then shows a short section of single track through Chillicothe. And if
> I’ve figured out where this picture is, it it looking west at the east end
> of the single track section. But the lack of Clear is not for the end of
> the two tracks but rather for the resumption of double track 1.5 miles
> ahead.
> >>
> >> Also to note that at least in 1981, the railroad there had TC (CTC) in
> effect east of Chillicothe on the two tracks and through the single track
> section but not on the double track west of there where it was current of
> traffic with a designated eastward and westward track. So the signals in
> the photo would have displayed Approach Diverging if routed to the westward
> track at the end of the single track but only Approach if routed to the
> eastward track since the next signal could only display Restricting for a
> move to the not signaled for westward moves eastward track.
> >>
> >> Per that timetable, the railroad went from two tracks to single track
> at MP N-655 plus 1535 feet and then to double track at MP N-656 plus 4680
> feet. Both turnouts has a 35 mph speed restriction.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Larry Stone
> >> lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>> On Mar 27, 2024, at 3:15 AM, NW Mailing List <
> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> John:
> >>>
> >>> This signal was on the Scioto Division- Columbus District, the N&W
> main line west (compass north) of Portsmouth.
> >>>
> >>> The reason for the lack of clear indication is that this is signal
> protected the end of double track with an equilateral switch. The best
> aspect a train could get would be “approach diverging”.
> >>>
> >>> Eric from the Columbus District
> >>>
> >>>> On Mar 26, 2024, at 23:20, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Eric,,
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for the location. Is this on the mainline? Can you explain the
> lack of 'Clear' on both mast?
> >>>>
> >>>> John Garner
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The bracket post mast in question was at Chillicothe, Ohio.  I
> believe that my photo…
> >>>>
> >>>> Eric
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> The other double-mast signal (with straight brackets) is interesting
> in the fact that it cannot display 'Clear' on either side. Anyone know it's
> location?
> >>>>> John Garner
> >>>> <N&W CPL Signals Chillicothe OH.jpg>
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> >>
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