Virginian (NW/NS) Roanoke South Yard

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No. That is ground storage coal that has been transported by CSX to the Massey Coal Terminal in Newport News at the North end of the Monitor-Merrimack Bridge Tunnel.

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Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2024 7:11 PM
To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: Virginian (NW/NS) Roanoke South Yard

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Is it Sewells Point the area you see when you come out of the north end of the Balt. Harbor Tunnell?  I've driven thought that area many times and always saw big banks of coal on the east side of the road (95?).

Carl Barna
Emmaus, PA
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Subject: Re: Virginian (NW/NS) Roanoke South Yard

Herb: True, the coal that had just been sold was already sitting at Sewalls Point, middle tracks, etc.  Yard crews and east bounds would be given a switch list that ID'ed cars to be moved from storage to the Barney Yard for dumping.  Now I understand that coal stays at the mine until sold.  One other point of interest -- to make sure no mine was favored with the limited supply of empties, N&W had to submit weekly a report to a government agency showing which mine was to get a how many empties.  Mines DID receive orders for specific classes that were sold before they left the origin and scheduled to be at dump site by a certain date.  Harry B

On Tuesday, July 16, 2024 at 07:03:03 AM EDT, NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:


Harry
About 4 years ago I met at a social event in Cape Charles a retired NS executive who was familiar with how coal was bought/sold/moved from Lamberts Point (& probably included the CSX facility in NN). I had commented that there always seemed to be at least 12-20 bulk carriers at anchor at any given time in the lower Chesapeake Bay. I was wondering why.
He stated that for those ships waiting to be loaded, the coal brokers/buyers were waiting for a dip in the market price of coal. Maybe a  $.05/ton drop in price might trigger a ‘buy order’ for a load.
I did not pepper him with ‘50 questions’, but remember the conversation.
With the information about demurrage & storage on this thread, I am wondering if the ship load of coal that just got “sold” was already sitting on the storage tracks, or was the order sent to the mine(s) for “X” tonnage of a specific grade of coal?
Thanks
Herb Edwards
Lynchburg
Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 15, 2024, at 6:14 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:

Harry, that is really excellent information. I don't know where else we might have it, but it seems new to a lot of us. By any chance, do you happen to know if the Virginian and the C&O also stacked up an inventory of coalon the East Coast "on spec"? Thanks.

Frank Bongiovanni


On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 1:04 PM NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
Abe- Until several decades ago, coal mines were allowed to ship coal to Lamberts Point that had never been sold.  After arrival, the cars had 10 demurrage-free days and hopefully the coal agents could find a sale for the class of coal and have it dumped before the charge set in.  Seems that around 1970, there was a downturn in the economy and mines cranked up production to fill ships looking for loads.  Unsold coal sky-rocketed and had to be stored at Sewells Point and middle tracks.  It wasn't unusual to see several coal trains waiting for a space to yard waiting at Juniper in the Dismal Swamp.  Then, N&W decided to discontinue the 10 demurrage-free days.  To start with, the initial charge for the first few days was only $2.20/day, and by increasing the availability of hoppers, N&W did NOT have to construct more.  Harry Bundy
On Sunday, July 14, 2024 at 06:46:57 AM EDT, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:


Why no trains or cars stored at South Roanoke ...?

If the yard is placed out-of-service, they eliminate the cost of track and switch inspections. As I recall, Main Tracks have to be patrolled twice a week, and yard switches have to be inspected once a month. And the Signal Department also has to do switch obstruction tests and inspection of IJ's (insulated joints) and fouling wires on any switches in signaled territory, monthly, as I seem to recall. (Usually the Signal Maintainer and the Track Patrol will agree to meet and do both the M/W switch inspection and the Signal Department tests at the same time.) In any case, it is all time, and time equates to money. I have now been away from this craziness for a blessed 14 years, so don't take the above numbers to the bank without double-checking them.

What I want to know is: Where is the NS hiding all the thousands upon thousands of hoppers which used to be kept busy running up and down the main line, making money? Are they all jammed in derelict, forgotten places like the Bluestone Branch? Decades ago, when business grew slack, the yards filled up with un-needed equipment. But they are not stuffing it in the yards any more. Just look at the satellite images of Roanoke, Mullens, Bluefield &c. Those places are, as my father would ahve said, "As clean as a chicken bone after the Methodist preacher came for dinner ! "

Are they dumping ANY coal at Lambert's Point, any more ?

Wonder how long it will be before the accountants figure out they can "enhance shareholder value" by selling the Lamberts Point acreage for the development of a shopping mall, or condo's ?  Or put a large Electric Vehicle Re-Charging station there... HA.  I bet the Navy would be happy to get it.

-- abram burnett
Cynical Turnips
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