Mainline hopper movements
NW Mailing List
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Wed Nov 26 23:32:36 EST 2025
James,
To tie up some dangling ends in my reply, empties for your North Fork
Branch were delivered by a dedicated Elkhorn run – a bit unusual, but an
indication of the tonnage coming down that short hollow. The east loads
went to Eckman, but the west loads were left on the North Fork storage
tracks for a River crew to pick up trailing-point that night, soon
followed by the Elkhorn crew with empties to set off.
Great questions! Thanks for asking and for patience with my replies.
Great topic worthy of your modeling skills, we love this stuff, so now
get to work.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and All,
Grant Carpenter
On 11/25/2025 7:11 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Yes, movements with more than a two-man engine crew (ie, a pusher)
> rated a caboose.
>
> Careful, setoffs and pickups could be made at any storage point,
> _some_ of which were terminals. Storage tracks were just that – track.
> Terminals included storage tracks, but also were where runs originated
> and terminated, thus they included facilities for engine service, a
> yard office, a call office, crew lounge, etc.
>
> So Byrd Yard was not a terminal, that would be Eckman Yard until it
> closed. The North Fork Hollow Mine Run was moved to Bluefield, became
> First Vivian or V1, and would depart Bluefield with a 2000 running in
> reverse, most times light with the caboose on the pilot.
>
> An Elkhorn crew would bring about 110 empties to North Fork and back
> them into the two storage tracks, Elk Ridge and North Fork. The engine
> was turned at Eckman, met a pusher, and took east loads from there
> back to Bluefield. Byrd Yard was used mostly to store empties for
> Keystone, being on the same side of the main and just up from the
> delivery switch.
>
> By setting off empties in one direction and picking up loads in the
> other, these mainline crews avoided mixed trains that would slow
> operations in a tight time frame. This is why it was so important that
> mine runs block their loads by direction when setting them out for
> pickup by the Elkhorn and River crews.
>
> Okay, I'll stop, and limit the drifting. Something approaching an
> overview on this topic was published in /The Arrow/ with Glenn
> Fisher's "High Noon" series, but doesn't include some details here,
> given the context. As always, feel free to ask more questions.
>
> Grant Carpenter
>
> On 11/25/2025 8:47 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>> OK, so an Elkhorn job takes off from Bluefield with a 21 hunnert and
>> a big string of empty hoppers (caboose yes?) headed West. This
>> movement drops off empties where needed (did it pick up any loads
>> while setting off at the terminals?) and finally has no more empties
>> and returns to Bluefield? So this is how empties would have gotten
>> to Byrd yard (a terminal?) ready for distribution up North Fork
>> holler. Bet a buck you can anticipate my next series of questions.
>> Well since you left the North Fork branch for me to model, I need to
>> do it properly :^)
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:21 PM NW Mailing List
>> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> The Bluefield pool job was referred to as just "Elkhorn" or
>> "Elkhorn man/job/run/crew." Motive power was one 2100 with
>> empties or running light, with a cab and road crew of five. If
>> there were two engines, one was a Pocahontas Pool pusher with a
>> two-man crew, and both were dispatched facing in the same
>> direction and running light to go pick up east loads.
>>
>> In similar fashion, the Tug River Pool job out of Williamson was
>> referred to as "River," as well as the pusher pool. They were
>> dispatched with empties or east loads, and sported auxiliary tenders.
>>
>> A clarification, terminals on the District where crews were based
>> and runs originated in the 1950s included Weller Yard, Auville
>> Yard, Eckman Yard and Wilcoe Yard. The terminal at Eckman closed
>> in 1951 and Wilcoe closed for the latter half of the 1950s.
>>
>> These pool jobs could set off and pick up by trailing-point moves
>> at designated storage points listed earlier, but tipples were
>> left to the six-man mine runs. If needed, a pool run could, for
>> example, deliver a tipple, and then put in for extra pay.
>>
>> Grant Carpenter
>>
>> On 11/24/2025 6:09 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>> Grant,
>>> Should I forget to say it explicitly in any of my messages, know
>>> that I am always grateful to you for sharing your knowledge.
>>> OK, it is the start of a normal working day in the mid 1950s in
>>> Bluefield. A "pool" run (was that how they were referred to?)
>>> is assembled with a long string of empties bookended by power.
>>> Was the power Ys? Were there 2? Was one running in reverse?
>>> Since I assume most pool yards had two switches off the main,
>>> what was the reason for using locomotives with opposite facings?
>>> Jim Cochran
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 6:32 AM NW Mailing List
>>> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> That's right, there was a pool of road crews based in each
>>> main terminal, Elkhorn Pool in Bluefield and Tug River Pool
>>> in Williamson, that hauled empties (when available) to
>>> storage points and returned with loads from storage points.
>>> Mine runs only had to move empties and loads between tipples
>>> and the nearest storage point. Those points on the main line
>>> from Bluefield west to Iaeger included: Mullins Middle, Flat
>>> Top Yard, Bluestone (River Track), Angle Branch, Morgan
>>> Storage, North Fork Hollow/Elk Ridge Storage, Byrd Yard,
>>> Eckman Yard, Vivian (Kimball Yard), Cirrus Storage, Huger
>>> Middle, Superior #3 Outlet, Tug Storage, Farm Storage,
>>> Caples Outlet, Davy Storage, Twin Branch Storage, Claren
>>> Storage and Hull Middle (the limit of Elkhorn crews).
>>> Branchline yards served by pool runs included Clift, Wilcoe
>>> and Auville.
>>>
>>> As I mentioned earlier, operation limits, variations and
>>> exceptions were typical; however, to your last point, I
>>> agree it is a good idea to limit my posts to the specific
>>> questions and limit details, so feel free to follow up.
>>>
>>> Grant Carpenter
>>>
>>> On 11/22/2025 2:44 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>>> Grant et al.
>>>> Thank you so much for your responses, I will keep asking as
>>>> long as you keep answering :-)
>>>> From the Pokey's point of view, empties magically appeared
>>>> in huge strings at Bluefield and Williamson, and needed to
>>>> be distributed to every mining operation. What I think I
>>>> just put together from Grant's response (please correct me
>>>> on anything/everything) is there was a distribution
>>>> hierarchy of runs to keep everyone supplied. Those big
>>>> "mainline" runs that I started with in my first post, would
>>>> start their runs "all empty" and set off cuts at what I
>>>> will call distribution points (yards) while picking up
>>>> loads from these large holding facilities. The ones that
>>>> come to my mind are Flat Top, Cliff, Byrd, Eckman,
>>>> Vivian/Kimball, and I get foggier as I go West of my
>>>> primary area of interest. Mike you probably know the ones
>>>> around Iaeger, so please chime in. Is there a
>>>> comprehensive list? The mainline run would, at some point
>>>> have set off all its empties and picked up a full train of
>>>> loads and head back to its terminal of origin be it
>>>> Bluefield or Williamson. How am I doing so far? I am
>>>> going to keep my posts somewhat short so as to try to
>>>> concentrate on a limited aspect at a time to help keep
>>>> things straight, at least for me.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jim Cochran
>>>
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> https://pairlist6.pair.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist6.pair.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/attachments/20251126/4dcbdb09/attachment.htm>
More information about the NW-Mailing-List
mailing list