Mainline hopper movements
NW Mailing List
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Fri Nov 28 14:36:06 EST 2025
Hello Jim,
There were six to ten crews assigned to the Elkhorn Pool out of
Bluefield. They rotated first-in, first-out with eight hours of rest.
They handled full-length mainline trains, that was 80 loads eastbound
upgrade, which required a 2100 and a pusher.
Specifically, the Elkhorn run to North Fork left Bluefield running
forward with empties behind and a cab on the rear. A clarification from
earlier where I stated this job would turn on the table at Eckman and
pickup east loads there for the return trip to Bluefield: Farm became
the turning point when the Eckman table was taken out of service. If so,
this crew continued west, possibly picking up _east_ loads along the WB
main, turned, filled out tonnage at some point, met a pusher, and
started back to Bluefield.
Depending on the date, they called the operator or the dispatcher to
unlock the switch at the branch junction with the WB main. Extra
movements would have to register on, so the box should have been near
that switch.
If you are still referring to the Elkhorn crew, it was a trailing-point
move to back empties into the Elk Ridge Storage track, yes, formally the
oven track, then into the North Fork Storage track, formally the main
track before a new main track was laid next to it. They would not have
delivered Algoma – that was first on the mine run's agenda.
Grant Carpenter
On 11/27/2025 7:10 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
> Hope everyone is full of turkey and pie and got at least one nap this
> afternoon,
> Had I been and engineer in Bluefield assigned to the Elkhorn pool
> (were crew assigned to the pools?), and drew the North Fork run, what
> class loco would I have had under me (a 2000?). Would I be running
> forward or reverse? Would the empties be in front of me or behind
> me? Would there be a cab, and if so, where?
> When I get to North Fork, do I need to sign the book showing I am
> occupying the branch, and if so, where was the book kept (in the
> station?)? After being cleared for the branch, and depending upon the
> loco's facing, I would start to either push or pull those empties
> around the hill where the Elk Ridge coke ovens used to be and head up
> the holler to make my first drop off at Algoma?
> Can I pack any more questions into one short message, time will tell,
> Jim Cochran
>
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2025 at 6:22 AM NW Mailing List
> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> James,
>
> To tie up some dangling ends in my reply, empties for your North
> Fork Branch were delivered by a dedicated Elkhorn run – a bit
> unusual, but an indication of the tonnage coming down that short
> hollow. The east loads went to Eckman, but the west loads were
> left on the North Fork storage tracks for a River crew to pick up
> trailing-point that night, soon followed by the Elkhorn crew with
> empties to set off.
>
> Great questions! Thanks for asking and for patience with my
> replies. Great topic worthy of your modeling skills, we love this
> stuff, so now get to work.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving to you and All,
>
> Grant Carpenter
> On 11/25/2025 7:11 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>> Jim,
>>
>> Yes, movements with more than a two-man engine crew (ie, a
>> pusher) rated a caboose.
>>
>> Careful, setoffs and pickups could be made at any storage point,
>> _some_ of which were terminals. Storage tracks were just that –
>> track. Terminals included storage tracks, but also were where
>> runs originated and terminated, thus they included facilities for
>> engine service, a yard office, a call office, crew lounge, etc.
>>
>> So Byrd Yard was not a terminal, that would be Eckman Yard until
>> it closed. The North Fork Hollow Mine Run was moved to Bluefield,
>> became First Vivian or V1, and would depart Bluefield with a 2000
>> running in reverse, most times light with the caboose on the pilot.
>>
>> An Elkhorn crew would bring about 110 empties to North Fork and
>> back them into the two storage tracks, Elk Ridge and North Fork.
>> The engine was turned at Eckman, met a pusher, and took east
>> loads from there back to Bluefield. Byrd Yard was used mostly to
>> store empties for Keystone, being on the same side of the main
>> and just up from the delivery switch.
>>
>> By setting off empties in one direction and picking up loads in
>> the other, these mainline crews avoided mixed trains that would
>> slow operations in a tight time frame. This is why it was so
>> important that mine runs block their loads by direction when
>> setting them out for pickup by the Elkhorn and River crews.
>>
>> Okay, I'll stop, and limit the drifting. Something approaching an
>> overview on this topic was published in /The Arrow/ with Glenn
>> Fisher's "High Noon" series, but doesn't include some details
>> here, given the context. As always, feel free to ask more questions.
>>
>> Grant Carpenter
>>
>> On 11/25/2025 8:47 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>> OK, so an Elkhorn job takes off from Bluefield with a 21 hunnert
>>> and a big string of empty hoppers (caboose yes?) headed West.
>>> This movement drops off empties where needed (did it pick up any
>>> loads while setting off at the terminals?) and finally has no
>>> more empties and returns to Bluefield? So this is how empties
>>> would have gotten to Byrd yard (a terminal?) ready for
>>> distribution up North Fork holler. Bet a buck you can
>>> anticipate my next series of questions. Well since you left the
>>> North Fork branch for me to model, I need to do it properly :^)
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:21 PM NW Mailing List
>>> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> The Bluefield pool job was referred to as just "Elkhorn" or
>>> "Elkhorn man/job/run/crew." Motive power was one 2100 with
>>> empties or running light, with a cab and road crew of five.
>>> If there were two engines, one was a Pocahontas Pool pusher
>>> with a two-man crew, and both were dispatched facing in the
>>> same direction and running light to go pick up east loads.
>>>
>>> In similar fashion, the Tug River Pool job out of Williamson
>>> was referred to as "River," as well as the pusher pool. They
>>> were dispatched with empties or east loads, and sported
>>> auxiliary tenders.
>>>
>>> A clarification, terminals on the District where crews were
>>> based and runs originated in the 1950s included Weller Yard,
>>> Auville Yard, Eckman Yard and Wilcoe Yard. The terminal at
>>> Eckman closed in 1951 and Wilcoe closed for the latter half
>>> of the 1950s.
>>>
>>> These pool jobs could set off and pick up by trailing-point
>>> moves at designated storage points listed earlier, but
>>> tipples were left to the six-man mine runs. If needed, a
>>> pool run could, for example, deliver a tipple, and then put
>>> in for extra pay.
>>>
>>> Grant Carpenter
>>>
>>> On 11/24/2025 6:09 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>>> Grant,
>>>> Should I forget to say it explicitly in any of my messages,
>>>> know that I am always grateful to you for sharing your
>>>> knowledge. OK, it is the start of a normal working day in
>>>> the mid 1950s in Bluefield. A "pool" run (was that how
>>>> they were referred to?) is assembled with a long string of
>>>> empties bookended by power. Was the power Ys? Were there
>>>> 2? Was one running in reverse? Since I assume most pool
>>>> yards had two switches off the main, what was the reason
>>>> for using locomotives with opposite facings?
>>>> Jim Cochran
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 6:32 AM NW Mailing List
>>>> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Jim,
>>>>
>>>> That's right, there was a pool of road crews based in
>>>> each main terminal, Elkhorn Pool in Bluefield and Tug
>>>> River Pool in Williamson, that hauled empties (when
>>>> available) to storage points and returned with loads
>>>> from storage points. Mine runs only had to move empties
>>>> and loads between tipples and the nearest storage
>>>> point. Those points on the main line from Bluefield
>>>> west to Iaeger included: Mullins Middle, Flat Top Yard,
>>>> Bluestone (River Track), Angle Branch, Morgan Storage,
>>>> North Fork Hollow/Elk Ridge Storage, Byrd Yard, Eckman
>>>> Yard, Vivian (Kimball Yard), Cirrus Storage, Huger
>>>> Middle, Superior #3 Outlet, Tug Storage, Farm Storage,
>>>> Caples Outlet, Davy Storage, Twin Branch Storage,
>>>> Claren Storage and Hull Middle (the limit of Elkhorn
>>>> crews). Branchline yards served by pool runs included
>>>> Clift, Wilcoe and Auville.
>>>>
>>>> As I mentioned earlier, operation limits, variations
>>>> and exceptions were typical; however, to your last
>>>> point, I agree it is a good idea to limit my posts to
>>>> the specific questions and limit details, so feel free
>>>> to follow up.
>>>>
>>>> Grant Carpenter
>>>>
>>>> On 11/22/2025 2:44 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>>>> Grant et al.
>>>>> Thank you so much for your responses, I will keep
>>>>> asking as long as you keep answering :-)
>>>>> From the Pokey's point of view, empties magically
>>>>> appeared in huge strings at Bluefield and Williamson,
>>>>> and needed to be distributed to every mining
>>>>> operation. What I think I just put together from
>>>>> Grant's response (please correct me on
>>>>> anything/everything) is there was a distribution
>>>>> hierarchy of runs to keep everyone supplied. Those
>>>>> big "mainline" runs that I started with in my first
>>>>> post, would start their runs "all empty" and set off
>>>>> cuts at what I will call distribution points (yards)
>>>>> while picking up loads from these large holding
>>>>> facilities. The ones that come to my mind are Flat
>>>>> Top, Cliff, Byrd, Eckman, Vivian/Kimball, and I get
>>>>> foggier as I go West of my primary area of interest.
>>>>> Mike you probably know the ones around Iaeger, so
>>>>> please chime in. Is there a comprehensive list? The
>>>>> mainline run would, at some point have set off all its
>>>>> empties and picked up a full train of loads and head
>>>>> back to its terminal of origin be it Bluefield or
>>>>> Williamson. How am I doing so far? I am going to
>>>>> keep my posts somewhat short so as to try to
>>>>> concentrate on a limited aspect at a time to help keep
>>>>> things straight, at least for me.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Jim Cochran
>>>>
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>>
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