North Fork Hollow Mine Run

[NW Mailing List]

Next up the holler was Gilliam Coal and Coke Company's operation.  It's
track left the branch with a facing points turnout on the North side and
rejoined past the tipple on a trailing points turnout (see attached track
chart snippet).  It seems like this would have allowed an empty run to pull
through the company track, drop empties above the tipple tracks.  However,
Grant's information suggests that the run pulled past the trailing points
turnout and then backed the empties into the holding track.  What was the
motivation for this?  Hauling a caboose around through all these gyrations
would have seemingly meant additional moves to drop it off and pick it back
up, so I am assuming (and yes, I know what assuming can do) that these runs
were cabooseless.
Thanks,
Jim Cochran

On Wed, Dec 3, 2025 at 10:15 AM NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

> I expect store and yard supplies were delivered on mine runs vs passenger
> runs.
>
> Alex Schust
> ------------------------------
> *From:* NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org> on behalf of
> NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 3, 2025 8:36 AM
> *To:* NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> *Subject:* Re: North Fork Hollow Mine Run
>
> Thanks, Alex,
> So, more than just hoppers on the branch!  Did all those company stores
> and mining operations get their merchandise in box cars?  Ever anything
> unusual?  Did those get delivered on the passenger runs or the mine runs?
> Jim Cochran
>
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2025 at 8:21 AM NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <
> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> The track between the two switches was 130 feet long. The 328-foot upper
> stub track served two stables that probably received boxcars of hay.
>
> Alex Schust
> ------------------------------
> *From:* NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org> on behalf of
> NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 2, 2025 10:45 PM
> *To:* nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> *Subject:* Re: North Fork Hollow Mine Run
>
> Jim,
>
> The Algoma tipple was located just below the upper switch such that
> empties had to be shoved above there on the tail track that was the
> delivery track, an extension of the (runaround) main track. Alex notes the
> extension was 25 empties long as of 1925. Empties were then dropped as
> needed from there into the three tipple tracks. The tail track on your
> track chart snippet suffers from severe foreshortening due to the nearby
> curvature schedule/chart, as shown here:
>
>
>
> There were two spurs at Algoma. The one shown above just beyond the upper
> switch was used for mine/tipple supplies and equipment. Not shown above was
> the company store spur just below the outlet (lower) switch, and was the
> destination for the occasional boxcar I mentioned in the reply below.
>
> To deliver by pulling instead of pushing empties would enlist the tail
> track and upper switch in a proper switchback move. Empties would be pulled
> past the upper turnout, then switched back into a delivery track below the
> turnout. So, the needed additional feature is the 25-car delivery capacity
> that would have to be added between the upper switch and the first tipple
> track switch.
>
> Grant Carpenter
>
> On 12/2/2025 7:58 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>
> The Buzzard Creek Branch was extended in 1899 to connect with the Crosby &
> Beckley logging RR's wooden track that went over Indian Ridge to go down
> Pinnacle Creek. The standard gauge portion of the extension was probably
> left in place when the logging stopped in 1904. In 1914 the N&W surveyed a
> route from Buzzard Creek along the old logging RR right of way to connect
> with the proposed Guyandot & Tug River RR coming down Pinnacle Creek.
>
> In 1925 the Buzzard Creek Branch was extended to hold 25 empties to
> accommodate the new Algoma tipple. The stub track, which only held four
> cars, was put in at the same time.
>
> Alex Schust
> ------------------------------
> *From:* NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org>
> <nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org> on behalf of NW Mailing List
> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 2, 2025 7:44 AM
> *To:* NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> *Subject:* Re: North Fork Hollow Mine Run
>
> Grant,
> More thanks than I can express for this information.  Your response
> contains lots of goodies, so I am going over it several times to make sure
> I glean all I can, and am going to respond one piece at a time to make sure
> I cover as much as possible.  Since Mike Rector, and perhaps others that
> are following along, have not properly committed themselves by fully
> memorizing the layout of North Fork branch in all its archeological
> incarnations :^), I will attach portions of track charts and possibly other
> diagrams stolen, uh, I mean borrowed from *North Fork – Norfolk & Western
> Branch Line*   by Alex Schust, Mason Cooper.   I would highly recommend
> picking up a copy from the commissary, a steal at $28.
> So now for my first (of many) questions, refer to attached track chart
> snippet.  Your message stated "Algoma was at the end of the spur with no
> tail track to pull past".  The chart shows four tracks at the tipple, three
> of which went under the structure I believe for loading while the fourth
> was a bypass.  The empties would have been stages "above" the tipple for
> gravity loading.  The chart shows the "bypass" track extending a ways past
> the point where the loading tracks converge on the uphill side, with a
> short stub off a facing point turnout.  So did the mine run push all the
> empties up past this extension for storage?  What was the purpose of the
> stub spur?  What additional features would have been needed for a "tail
> track" that could have allowed the run to pull the empties up instead of
> pushing them?
> As always, more to come,
> Jim Cochran
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2025 at 6:48 PM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> As if operations are not confusing enough, they varied and evolved over
> the decade from the opening of the new Elkhorn Tunnel to the end of steam.
> So by "headed West," that would be to the Eckman Yard table, with or
> without loads, turn, then pick up loads and head east, if in the same time
> period as when the mine run is still dispatched from Eckman Yard.
>
> Regarding the North Fork Mine Run, I found this:
>
> Regarding your mines of interest, my info only goes back to post-WWII. By
> then, the working tipples I heard about were at Algoma, Gilliam, Rolfe,
> Ashland and Crumpler.
>
> The North Fork Hollow mine run was a daylight job out of Eckman Yard.
> Dispatched facing upgrade, the regular power was the 2023 with Cicero Sells
> as engineer, the senior man at Eckman.
>
> An Elkhorn job out of Bluefield would set off empties the night before on
> the storage tracks Elk Ridge (60 cars) and North Fork (55 cars) adjacent to
> the branch line near North Fork Junction. The mine run could bring more
> empties from Eckman Yard or Byrd Yard in Northfork, as needed.
>
> The job was broken up into three round trips from the junction up the
> branch: first to Algoma up the Buzzards Creek Branch, then to Gilliam and
> Rolfe, then to Ashland and Crumpler.
>
> Algoma was at the end of the spur with no tail track to pull past, so
> empties were pulled off the junction-end of the storage tracks while
> backing out onto the main line, then shoved forward up the branch main
> track, then up the spur. Loads came back to Byrd Yard.
>
> Gilliam and Rolfe were delivered by trailing point moves from the main
> track, so empties were pulled up the branch on this trip. The engine backed
> down with loads trailing to Elk Ridge and swapped the loads for the
> remaining empties.
>
> Like Algoma, Ashland and Crumpler were stub-end, but the empties were
> pulled up the branch to Jones Siding, run around there, then shoved ahead.
> Ashland was delivered first, leaving the loads for pick up on the way back
> down from Crumpler.
>
> Crumpler, aka Zenith, was steep with five, ten-car delivery tracks that
> made it particularly tedious and dangerous. With no radios to stop him, the
> rear brakeman rode the drawhead and jerked the angle cock open to stop. The
> middle brakeman made the cut while the rear brakeman set brakes, watching
> for the next cut to get on and stop them. Tipplemen, called "droppers",
> would help set brakes. Every load had brakes on and if they were set out on
> the main track, every brake had to be put back on.
>
> Loads were usually blocked at the tipples and both east and west loads
> were set out on Elk Ridge and North Fork storage tracks, the main track, or
> in the yard upon returning to Eckman.
>
> The North Fork mine run became First Vivian out of Bluefield when Eckman
> closed in 1951. "V1" would leave Bluefield with a 2000 in reverse, a cab on
> the pilot, and usually ran light. Empties were waiting on the Elk Ridge and
> North Fork storage tracks and Byrd Yard as before, but west loads were set
> off in Eckman Yard and it returned with east loads. If it was running close
> on time (16 hours) or Bluefield was (usually) unable to take short trains,
> the east loads were set off at Flat Top Yard and it ran light on to
> Bluefield.
>
> Sometimes the daylight job put empties in at Algoma, but the loads would
> store there until the night job could pull them. Occasionally, North
> Fork/V1 would deliver Dan's Branch, but time-slipped.
>
> Non-coal work included an occasional boxcar to the company store at
> Algoma. 84 would set off refrigerator cars of meat on the North Fork Middle
> Track about 1am every Monday morning for the North Fork Passenger Run to
> spot at the Wilson, Armour and Swift packing plants. After the passenger
> run was cut off, V1 would get called early at 4am (usually 8am) to spot the
> cars.
>
> Grant Carpenter
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> https://pairlist6.pair.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> https://pairlist6.pair.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist6.pair.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/attachments/20251204/fd20ae71/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 7reD9NWFGesRnivZ.png
Type: image/png
Size: 140244 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <https://pairlist6.pair.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/attachments/20251204/fd20ae71/attachment-0001.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: gil.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 102580 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <https://pairlist6.pair.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/attachments/20251204/fd20ae71/attachment-0001.jpg>