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Unfortunately, pretty much the same answer. I'd suspect most of the older union records would have gone the way of the trash after they were of any use to the union. With the privacy act that Gary mentioned, everyone is under the same general rules. I know a bunch of N&W employee records were tossed in the 1970s. Luckily for me, one of the people doing the tossing recognized my father's father name on a file, and knew my father, and asked if he wanted the file before it was tossed. That was lucky, as my grandfather had lost a leg about 1909, and was last employed as a Crossing Watchman in the 1930s before passing away in 1943. So his record was closed for at least 30 years when it was to be tossed.<div><br></div><div>I strongly suspect local union records are deleted fairly quickly due to lack of storage spaces, as most of the union offices are rented space, and primarily small.<br><div><br></div><div>One inquiry rail historians always seem to get is "my (insert relative here) worked for the railroad, can you tell me anything about his service?" It is rare anyone can provide an answer of much value on the question, unless by some tiny chance they had a mention in the N&W magazine, or a seniority list. For years, the N&W Magazine published "The Innumerable Caravan" which was a list of employees or former employees who had passed away in recent months, these listings usually included an address, their last job and the date of passing. </div><div><br></div><div>As Gary also said, the only hope might be some paperwork your family may have. For union stuff, a pay stub might list a member number, union card, correspondence might offer some clues. You are very lucky when you have a time book for a trainman, however, more often than not, I've discovered that many of them did not keep as detailed notes, engine numbers, cars as we'd like. My father, again, was a record keeper, I have all his timebooks from date of hire in 1948 to retirement in 1981. He kept amazingly detailed notes about engine numbers, engineer name, conductor name, number of cars, loads or empties. He even noted in the steam era when a canteen was used. Many others I've seen have only a date and time, and precious little else. I've got some from the Shenandoah Division from the 1920s that a jewels of detail, except it was when the locomotives were assigned, so it was virtually the same locomotive day in and day out.</div><div><br></div><div>Good luck</div><div><br></div><div>Ken Miller</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 7, 2009, at 9:20 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><font size="3" face="times,serif">I've got a similar question, which will probably result in a similar answer, but I'll ask it anyway. <br></font><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; "><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal">I have an old Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen identification disk with a member number engraved on the back and want to find out if it belonged to my father, grandfather, or great grandfather.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>They all worked for the N&W out of Petersburg, Virginia.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>I made an inquiry to the United Transportation Union, but never received a response.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>I've searched the internet and cannot find any information about Virginia BRT Lodges.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>I have no idea where the BRT records would have gone after the merger with the UTU.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Does anyone have an idea where I might go to match that number with a name?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div> <br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><p>R. W. Vaughan<br><br></p> <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px">-----Original Message----- <br>From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org><br>Sent: Jul 6, 2009 10:26 AM <br>To: 'NW Mailing List' <nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org><br>Subject: RE: seeking information on engineer and his engines <br><br><zzzhtml xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"><zzzhead><zzzmeta content="text/html; charset=us-ascii" http-equiv="Content-Type"><zzzmeta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"><zzz!--[if !mso]=""> <zzz![endif]--><o:smarttagtype name="State" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype name="City" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype name="place" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype name="PersonName" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:smarttagtype><zzz!--[if !mso]=""> <zzz![endif]--> </zzz![endif]--></zzz!--[if></zzz![endif]--></zzz!--[if></zzzmeta></zzzmeta></zzzhead><zzzbody lang="EN-US" vlink="blue" link="blue"> <div class="Section1"><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Chris; It is highly unlikely that any employment records can be found. The N&WHS doesn’t have any and the Federal Privacy Act keeps the railroads from releasing any. Most older records were discarded decades ago. At any rate, the information about what trains he ran and what locomotives he operated were never in employment files. For that you would need his personal time books where he would record what trains he operated and (likely) what locomotives he was using. Since the engineer was paid by the run, this info determined how much he was paid- weight of train and weight of locomotive being critical items. This info was in the crew registers but this was usually discarded after about 6 months. The Time book was the engineer’s way to check what the company recorded and dispute any differences. These are little ledger books, pocket sized. If you are lucky your family will have them. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The employee magazine probably does not have an article with him in it. However these were not indexed completely, so a page-by page search is likely required to find anything about him. Given that the first issue was written in June of 1923, it is mostly likely that no article was ever written about him. This sort of article would have been extremely rare in any case. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In short it is going to be very, very difficult to construct his history as for the most part the company records never had any of his details of work. Think about what is in your employment files.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Gary Rolih<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Secretary N&WHS <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="2" face="Arial"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div></div> <div> <div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class="MsoNormal" align="center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <hr tabindex="-1" align="center" size="2" width="100%"> </span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> nw-mailing-list-bounces@nwhs.org [<a href="mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces@nwhs.org">mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces@nwhs.org</a>] <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </span></b><st1:personname w:st="on">NW Mailing List</st1:personname><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:31 PM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> nw-<st1:personname w:st="on"><a href="mailto:mailing-list@nwhs.org">mailing-list@nwhs.org</a></st1:personname><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> seeking information on engineer and his engines</span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I am starting a detailed geneology record of my great-grandfater, and he was an engineer for the N&W. His name was James Cecil Neff. I am seeking information on how to search for his employment records, and some history on the lines and engines that he worked on. Also is there a way to find if he was the topic of any articles in the N&W magazine or any other of the companies documentation. He lived in Rural Retreat, Va, <st1:city w:st="on">Kenova</st1:city>, <st1:state w:st="on">WV</st1:state>, and <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Portsmouth</st1:city>, <st1:state w:st="on">OH</st1:state></st1:place>. I have some pass cards and engineer cards dated between 1905-1919. He died in 1921. He served at the Kenova sub-division during those times.<br> <br>His picture did appear in a N&W magazine in July 1953(page 392).<br>I have two photographs that show the engine numbers he worked on. They were 1136 and 1447.<br> <br>Any information about him, his engines, or how to find this information would be greatly appreciated.<br> <br>Thanks,<br></span></font><em><i><font color="blue" face="Lucida Handwriting"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Handwriting'; COLOR: blue">Chris Neff</span></font></i></em><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class="MsoNormal" align="center"><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"> </span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. <a href="http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009" target="_new">See how.</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></zzzbody></zzzhtml></nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org></nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org></blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">________________________________________</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:NW-Mailing-List@nwhs.org">NW-Mailing-List@nwhs.org</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To change your subscription go to</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list">http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/">http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/</a></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>