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<DIV>Maybe the following is the missing Part 1:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Gordon Hamilton</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> Somehow
the formatting on my original message to you was scrambled, and it all became
one huge paragraph. Here it is again, properly formatted... --adb
<DIV>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV> <SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span>Much could be written about this, and I will give you the
entire picture ... over the course of several emails. But I will start with the
Radford Division in 1964. </SPAN>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span>By 1964, the entire Radford Division (Roanoke to RD at
Bluefield, plus the Bristol Line) was Rule 261 territory (CTC.) That meant that
there was no current-of-traffic on the main tracks and that all trains proceeded
on signal indication, regardless of class or direction. The timetable still gave
a schedule for all trains (First Class being the passenger trains, Third Class
being the Time Freights, and Fourth Class being the locals,) but schedule and
class really meant nothing. The Time Table schedules were really for information
alone. ALL trains ran by signal indication alone. For example, the Train
Dispatcher could hold the signal on No. 18 at Glade Spring and and bring an
extra freight slobbering up the hill against him, with no orders being issued to
any train. (In the old days, this would have taken a Train Order: "Extra 752
West has right over No 18 Chillhowie to Glade Spring.") The only Train Orders
normally issued were for speed restrictions or passing sidings being blocked
with cars. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span>However, I do recall that when No 3 and No 4 were run in
sections due to the heavy Christmas mail, or when an occasional Passenger Extra
would be run at this time of year, Train Orders would be issued. For instance:
"Eng 512 run as First No 3 Roanoke to Bluefield on the following schedule Lv
Roanoke 6:45PM Christiansburg 7:55PM Ar Bluefield 9:55PM." This really wasn't
the way things should have been done according to the generally accepted Train
Order procedures, but the N&W often deviated from "Standard Code"
procedures. Sometime just before I started in 1964, the use of "Train Signals"
(i.e. all sections of a train except the last one "carrying green signals") was
stopped in CTC territory. So, both First 3 and Second 3 carried no green flags
or classification lamps. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span>Now, as to Clearance Cards. EVERY train was required by
Time Table to get a Clearance Card at its initial terminal. This was a check to
make sure that no train got out and running without any orders the DS had for
it. The way this worked was as follows: Each "initial terminal" had a Telegraph
Office (in N&W parlance, but which in reality hadn't had telegraph
instruments for four years.) At Bristol, this was the operator at BD. At
Radford, it was the operator at CN. At Shaffers Crossing, it was the soperator
at DO (which was at 16th Street until around 1962 or 1963, but had been moved to
the Hump Building by the time I hired in 1964.) At the Roanoke Passenger
Station, the operator handing Train Orders for passenger trains was MH, but MH
was closed not long after the last passenger trains, No's 11 and 12, were pulled
off the Punkin' Vine in the early 1960s. So, here is how the situation worked at
"initial terminals." The Conductor of every train originating at Bristol would
go into the Telegraph Office and ask for orders. The operator would give him two
sets of Train Orders (one for the Conductor and one for the Engineman) or, if
there were no orders, two Clearance Cards stating "I have no orders for your
train." If originating at East Radford, the Conductor went into the Telegraph
Office there, and the routine was the same. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span>If originating at Shaffers Crossing, the Conductor went
to DO and asked for orders. But by 1964, there was no longer an operator at MH,
so how did trains originating there get orders? And at Bluefield, RD tower had
been torn down and there was no operator at the East Yard Office either, so how
did trains originating there get orders? The answer was a typically N&W
answer: Have the messenger boy deliver them ! For passenger crews originating at
the Roanoke Passenger Station, the Dispatchers from Norfolk Div, Shen Div and
Rad Div would phone the Train Orders and/or Clearance Cards to the operator at
DO Shaffers Crossing, and the messenger boy would drive them to the passenger
station and hang them on a bulletin board which had four sections on it, one for
each direction out of the station, and the passenger crews would pick them up
there. For all crews originating at Bluefield, both freight and passenger, the
Radford Division Dispatcher would phone the orders to the Pocahontas Division
Dispatcher's Office in Bluefield and someone there would write them out and send
them by messenger to either the passenger station or East Yard
Office.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span>MH was an intresting situation. I was in that place many
times as a kid, and the chatter of the telegraph instruments was fascinating. MH
had the Train Dispatchers' Wires for all four directions out of Roanoke. On the
first floor of the station building, beginning from the west and going eastward,
were (1) the Post Office Transfer Clerk's office, (2) MH Telegraph Office, (3) a
very small trainman's room with a window into MH, (4) the Passenger Trainmen's
locker room where conductor's ticket boxes were kept on shelves and kerosene
markers were kept for the passenger trains (all markers being changed at
Roanoke,) and (5) several Signal Department rooms that I was never
in. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span>After the operator at MH was taken off, the Comp'ny
erected on the east wall of #3 (above) a very large black wooden board with
hooks on it. I don't remember how many hooks, but I do recall that white
lettering saying "East," "West," "North" and "South." It was on these hooks that
the messenger boy would hang the orders that he had brought down from DO. For
some reason there were also large metal rings, about 5" in diameter, each having
a tag. The tags said "Shen Div," "Nfk Div" and "Rad Div"... they are the only
ones I recall. After hanging up the orders for the passenger crews, the
messenger boy would hang the ring/tag on the hook atop the orders he had just
posted. Now the best part is... I have two of those tags (which were obviously
made in East End Shops) !!!!! They are now on a big ring of switch keys that I
gave to my son several years ago. I'll get them back and photograph them for
you. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span>Oh, MH was a Radford Division office, as was the tower at
Randolph Street (which apparently never handled Train
orders.) </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span>I'm copying Jim Blackstock in on this wire as he probably
worked the messenger job and hung orders on the board at MH. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span>In 1964, the engines were equipped with radios but
coverage was almost nonexistant. About the only place you could reach the
dispatcher was from the top of Christiansburg Mountain. Obviously, some kind of
radio base tower had been set up there to address the helper situation on the
VGN side. I can recall old Engr Bob Jewell trying and trying to "click in" the
dispatcher and saying, "This #$%&* thing doesn't work. You're will have to
go to the phone box, Sonny." And indeed, the phone box was the means of
communication 98% of the time. This meant that a trainman paid attention to and
learned the locations of such things. The saying was, "There's a phone box every
mile, so you'll never have to walk over a mile to find one." The radio was
almost never used for anything. All intra-crew communication was done by word of
mouth or by hand signal. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span>On the N&W, train and engine crews never copied Train
Orders directly from either the Train Dispatcher or an operator. The above
description represents things as I knew them when I hired on the Radford
Division in 1964. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span>Next time I'll write about how things were done on the
other Divisions. I'm glad you asked the question. Answering it brought back fond
memories. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span>-- adb</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: medium"
class=Apple-style-span> ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
----- "Ben Blevins" wrote: > Abramos, I have what may be a lengthy question.
But, I simply don't have a clue because I haven't asked anyone, or even given it
a though until now. In the time that you first came out, and up until radios
came about, how was train dispatching accomplished? I know today the dispatcher
gives them their orders via radio and proceed by signal indication, and they
will come on and tell them when and where they will have a meet. But, I don't
know how all that was handled before radios came about. Would you mind to give a
curious young railroader a lesson on it? brb > ></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P><BR>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG -
www.avg.com <BR>Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.84/2530 - Release
Date: 11/27/09 02:58:00<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org href="mailto:nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org">NW
Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org
href="mailto:nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org">nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 30, 2009 8:49
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Re:Train Orders - Roanoke -
Part 2</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>I haven't been able to locate Part 1 in the archive.
Since the original message from 'adb' was forwarded to the
nw-mailing-list, it may have come another forum. I would like to
read it also.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Dick Kimball</DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
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<P></P><BR>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG -
www.avg.com <BR>Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.87/2536 - Release
Date: 11/30/09 02:31:00<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>