From nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org Wed Sep 9 13:02:11 2009 From: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org (NW Modeling List) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:02:11 -0400 Subject: Signal Head Message-ID: <410-2200993917211286@earthlink.net> Mr Nichols; Thanks for you answer. I am modeling the N&W circa 1968 and NS circa 2000 (not both at the same time!) and for as long as I have been chasing the N&W, since about 1985, I note that the amber lights had been replaced with red, green and amber in the position light signals. Does anyone know what time frame that change was made in? I do know that the Pennsy used all amber in electrified territory and red, green and amber in diesel territory; but again, not sure when the change was made. Thanks. Dan Mulhearn Dan and Nina Mulhearn; Pipestem WV dannina1 at earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org Wed Sep 9 16:23:06 2009 From: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org (NW Modeling List) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 15:23:06 -0500 Subject: Signal Head In-Reply-To: <410-2200993917211286@earthlink.net> References: <410-2200993917211286@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002c01ca318b$57988930$06c99b90$@net> I'm not sure when the change was made either, but if your signal head has seven lights, then amber is correct, since the change to color position lights involved blanking the center (seventh) light. However, if you are modeling circa 1968, then color position lights probably had replaced the amber lights, but your signal head would have only six lights. Jim Nichols From: nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Modeling List Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:02 PM To: NW Modeling List Subject: RE: Signal Head Mr Nichols; Thanks for you answer. I am modeling the N&W circa 1968 and NS circa 2000 (not both at the same time!) and for as long as I have been chasing the N&W, since about 1985, I note that the amber lights had been replaced with red, green and amber in the position light signals. Does anyone know what time frame that change was made in? I do know that the Pennsy used all amber in electrified territory and red, green and amber in diesel territory; but again, not sure when the change was made. Thanks. Dan Mulhearn Dan and Nina Mulhearn; Pipestem WV dannina1 at earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org Wed Sep 9 17:35:48 2009 From: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org (NW Modeling List) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:35:48 -0400 Subject: Signal Head In-Reply-To: <410-2200993917211286@earthlink.net> References: <410-2200993917211286@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <43EFDA0AA97D4056B48D120533D3AB5C@071927350f> Mr. Mulhearn: The wreck at Sardinia, Ohio on Easter in 1958 was the 'straw that broke the camel's back' regarding the change to color position lights. Over a period of time some questions had been raised by others and the railroad as to the safety of the PL's, PL's being subject to potential misinterpretation in difficult visibility. So shortly after the finalization of the report on this accident, the N&W started to convert the PL's to CPL's. Lot of signals to change over- took about one year. As to the PRR's use of all amber PL's in electrified territory and CPL's in diesel territory, where did you ever hear of that? Please review that resource. My resources show that the PRR always used PL's in amber. Gary Rolih Secretary N&WHS _____ From: nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Modeling List Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:02 PM To: NW Modeling List Subject: RE: Signal Head Mr Nichols; Thanks for you answer. I am modeling the N&W circa 1968 and NS circa 2000 (not both at the same time!) and for as long as I have been chasing the N&W, since about 1985, I note that the amber lights had been replaced with red, green and amber in the position light signals. Does anyone know what time frame that change was made in? I do know that the Pennsy used all amber in electrified territory and red, green and amber in diesel territory; but again, not sure when the change was made. Thanks. Dan Mulhearn Dan and Nina Mulhearn; Pipestem WV dannina1 at earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org Thu Sep 10 06:25:18 2009 From: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org (NW Modeling List) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:25:18 -0400 Subject: Signal Head In-Reply-To: <43EFDA0AA97D4056B48D120533D3AB5C@071927350f> References: <410-2200993917211286@earthlink.net> <43EFDA0AA97D4056B48D120533D3AB5C@071927350f> Message-ID: For 1968 you would have color position light signals. My 1961 Radford Division timetable shows the aspects for both position lights and color position signals because parts of the N&W were still in transition from PL to CPL's. By 1968 the conversion was done. Ben Blevins NS Signal Maintainer on the old N&W On 9/9/09, NW Modeling List wrote: > Mr. Mulhearn: The wreck at Sardinia, Ohio on Easter in 1958 was the 'straw > that broke the camel's back' regarding the change to color position lights. > Over a period of time some questions had been raised by others and the > railroad as to the safety of the PL's, PL's being subject to potential > misinterpretation in difficult visibility. So shortly after the > finalization of the report on this accident, the N&W started to convert the > PL's to CPL's. Lot of signals to change over- took about one year. > > > > As to the PRR's use of all amber PL's in electrified territory and CPL's in > diesel territory, where did you ever hear of that? Please review that > resource. My resources show that the PRR always used PL's in amber. > > > > Gary Rolih > > Secretary N&WHS > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org > [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Modeling List > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:02 PM > To: NW Modeling List > Subject: RE: Signal Head > > > > Mr Nichols; Thanks for you answer. I am modeling the N&W circa 1968 and NS > circa 2000 (not both at the same time!) and for as long as I have been > chasing the N&W, since about 1985, I note that the amber lights had been > replaced with red, green and amber in the position light signals. Does > anyone know what time frame that change was made in? I do know that the > Pennsy used all amber in electrified territory and red, green and amber in > diesel territory; but again, not sure when the change was made. Thanks. Dan > Mulhearn > > > > Dan and Nina Mulhearn; Pipestem WV > > dannina1 at earthlink.net > > Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > > > > From nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org Thu Sep 10 12:55:58 2009 From: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org (NW Modeling List) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:55:58 -0400 Subject: Signal Head In-Reply-To: <002c01ca318b$57988930$06c99b90$@net> References: <410-2200993917211286@earthlink.net> <002c01ca318b$57988930$06c99b90$@net> Message-ID: <06B47656-1ED5-48B7-9538-549EE3E4D97D@rev.net> Really depends on the signal head and use, the center light was simply blanked with a metal plate with tabs, it is easy to take one out or lose it when being dismantled. Certain indications used an amber center light on the lower head to my recollection. By 1968, general usage would be color position lights on the original N&W. Ken Miller On Sep 9, 2009, at 4:23 PM, NW Modeling List wrote: > I?m not sure when the change was made either, but if your signal > head has seven lights, then amber is correct, since the change to > color position lights involved blanking the center (seventh) light. > However, if you are modeling circa 1968, then color position lights > probably had replaced the amber lights, but your signal head would > have only six lights. Jim Nichols > > > > From: nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-modeling-list- > bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Modeling List > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:02 PM > To: NW Modeling List > Subject: RE: Signal Head > > > > Mr Nichols; Thanks for you answer. I am modeling the N&W circa 1968 > and NS circa 2000 (not both at the same time!) and for as long as I > have been chasing the N&W, since about 1985, I note that the amber > lights had been replaced with red, green and amber in the position > light signals. Does anyone know what time frame that change was > made in? I do know that the Pennsy used all amber in electrified > territory and red, green and amber in diesel territory; but again, > not sure when the change was made. Thanks. Dan Mulhearn > > > > Dan and Nina Mulhearn; Pipestem WV > > dannina1 at earthlink.net > > Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > > > > ________________________________________ > NW-Modeling-List at nwhs.org > To change your subscription go to > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-modeling-list > Browse the NW-Modeling-List archives at > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-modeling-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org Thu Sep 10 18:52:07 2009 From: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org (NW Modeling List) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:52:07 -0400 Subject: Signal Head In-Reply-To: <43EFDA0AA97D4056B48D120533D3AB5C@071927350f> References: <410-2200993917211286@earthlink.net> <43EFDA0AA97D4056B48D120533D3AB5C@071927350f> Message-ID: I was not aware that the Pennsy ever converted any lines to color position light signals. When we lived in Ohio during the 70's (Canton with the PC former Pennsy Ft Wayne mainline through the city) all the signals were amber PL' s. This was true also on the C&P all other ex-Pennsy lines throughout Ohio and Pennsylvania where I railfaned. When I go to the Pittsburgh area on business currently, the former Pennsy lines have a combination of several types of signals including CPL's and amber PL's. There were changes under Conrail but they weren't consistent. NS seems to have added to the variations in types since it took over. Ed Painter; Narrows, VA currently living in Russellville, AR From: nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Modeling List Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 4:36 PM To: 'NW Modeling List' Subject: RE: Signal Head Mr. Mulhearn: The wreck at Sardinia, Ohio on Easter in 1958 was the 'straw that broke the camel's back' regarding the change to color position lights. Over a period of time some questions had been raised by others and the railroad as to the safety of the PL's, PL's being subject to potential misinterpretation in difficult visibility. So shortly after the finalization of the report on this accident, the N&W started to convert the PL's to CPL's. Lot of signals to change over- took about one year. As to the PRR's use of all amber PL's in electrified territory and CPL's in diesel territory, where did you ever hear of that? Please review that resource. My resources show that the PRR always used PL's in amber. Gary Rolih Secretary N&WHS ________________________________ From: nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Modeling List Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:02 PM To: NW Modeling List Subject: RE: Signal Head Mr Nichols; Thanks for you answer. I am modeling the N&W circa 1968 and NS circa 2000 (not both at the same time!) and for as long as I have been chasing the N&W, since about 1985, I note that the amber lights had been replaced with red, green and amber in the position light signals. Does anyone know what time frame that change was made in? I do know that the Pennsy used all amber in electrified territory and red, green and amber in diesel territory; but again, not sure when the change was made. Thanks. Dan Mulhearn Dan and Nina Mulhearn; Pipestem WV dannina1 at earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org Fri Sep 11 12:33:36 2009 From: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org (NW Modeling List) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:33:36 -0400 Subject: Signal Head Message-ID: <410-22009951116333695@earthlink.net> Mr. Rolih; Thanks for your reply, it confirms that I need to use CPLs to model 1968. I grew up on Long Island and it was common "sandhouse rumor" that PRR used amber PLs in electrified territory because so much of it was prone to heavy fog. I do not know when the non electrified territories were converted to CPLs but I know from seeing them that it was prior to the formation of Conrail. My home road, the Long Island stuck with PLs in ATC and ABS territory, with some exceptions until the present day. Although many of the LIRRs ABS PLs have been removed in favor of cab signals. Again, LIRR employees were often heard to say that the amber PLs were due to the frequent dense foggy conditions on "the Island". I hope I have not confused anyone. The Society does have a couple of excellent publications available showing drawings of signal heads, structures and all things signal related as well as one depicting all N&W signal indications in both PL,, CPL and former VGN formats. Dan. Dan and Nina Mulhearn; Pipestem WV dannina1 at earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org Fri Sep 11 16:08:06 2009 From: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org (NW Modeling List) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Signal Head In-Reply-To: <410-22009951116333695@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <183825.68894.qm@web38704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My understanding is that for PRR territories there are two stories to be told (pre-NS). PRR stuck with all amber, and it was not until sometime under Conrail that red lenses began to be used for the stop aspect. The Northeast corridor however was sold to Amtrak (in 1976?), and all of these targets were changed to true Color Position Light (CPL). I am not an authority on this. But for sure 1968 was CPLs on the Pokey (I was there hehe). Mark Peele From nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org Sat Sep 12 19:33:04 2009 From: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org (NW Modeling List) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:33:04 -0700 Subject: Con-Cor PK Coaches In-Reply-To: <50B77710A1254636B368D862CF7C66DD@VALUED664B84C7> References: <392534.44937.qm@web52508.mail.re2.yahoo.com><7C999B0960C646F596A640E526FB2224@DESKTOP> <50B77710A1254636B368D862CF7C66DD@VALUED664B84C7> Message-ID: <2C72CEE3973E49209062893ED918465B@NigelPC> Also, Mr. French's book states that they were acquired in 1934 and off the rooster by 1949. Nigel http://www.linkedin.com/in/nigelmisso ----- Original Message ----- From: NW Modeling List To: NW Modeling List Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Con-Cor PK Coaches Page 73 of the Williamson Terminal book shows all 3 cars, PK coach, BMj RPO, and BPg combine, that N&W bought from Pennsy, the same 3 cars Con-Cor is doing. Marty Flick I think they also bought some of the combines but I don't have my other references handy. If somebody else knows off hand please chip in. Brian Dembinski ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Modeling-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-modeling-list Browse the NW-Modeling-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-modeling-list/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ NW-Modeling-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-modeling-list Browse the NW-Modeling-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-modeling-list/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ NW-Modeling-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-modeling-list Browse the NW-Modeling-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-modeling-list/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________ NW-Modeling-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-modeling-list Browse the NW-Modeling-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-modeling-list/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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