[Roundtable] Re: Roundtable Digest, Vol 5, Issue 1 "Tongues" Nagy questions

[Jefferis Peterson]

On 1/22/04 4:26 PM, "RWOHearn at cs.com" <RWOHearn at cs.com> wrote:

> 
> If the qualitative meaning,"perfect" is assigned to 'teleion', then it would
> refer to the ideal condition that will exist following the Second Advent of
> Christ. This would mean that the partial knowledge communicated by  prophecy
> and Scripture would continue throughout the Church Age and be replaced by
> 'perfect' knowledge when the believer is in the presence of Christ in the
> millieum or in heaven.
>              Though it was comon for Greek philosophers to use 'teleios in a
> 'qualitative way to refer to a perfect man or an ideal state, this meaning is
> foreign to Scripture.
>              In contrast the use of teleion an it's cognates in the New
> Testament refer to the quantitative meaning, completed or mature (1Cor. 2:6;
> 14:20; Eph 4:13; Heb. 5:14; James 1:4). Since the immediate context of verse 9
> focuses on the partial or incomplete nature of revelation through prophecy and
> knowledge , teleion in verse 10 must also be understood in the quantitative
> sense of God's "completed" revelation of doctrine. Since teleion is in the
> neuter gender, it cannot refer to the coming of the person of Christ, a
> masculine noun. Therefore both context and grammar eliminate the 'qualitative'
> meanning of "perfect"-- the return of Christ, the Millennium, or heaven-- as a
> possible innterpretation for teleion. this word refers to the complete
> revelation of the Cannon of Scripture. Once the whole Cannon was in writing,
> the gifts of prophecy and knowledge that had gradually revealed portions of
> mystery doctrine would be terminated.
> 
> What-aya-think? 
> 
> Robert O'Hearn 
> rwohearn at cs. com 


After re-reading my Greek grammar, it does appear that that this phrase to
telion [the perfect] is either in the nominative or accusative neuter,
rather than the masculine accusative, which would require a masculine
article  ŒTON telion¹ to be masculine, not ³to.²

However, as I said yesterday, while the perfect could refer to us knowing
fully as we are fully known now, there is no way in an historical context
that Paul could have been referring to the Canon of Scripture as a written
set of writings, including his own. For him, the grapha, the writings, were
the OT, which was not fully Œcanonized¹ themselves. They were still in a
state of development of accepted materials, excluding of course the Torah
and most of the prophets.

In this context, then, the full revelation of knowledge indicates a state of
perfect knowledge on the part of the believers ­ a precondition for such
knowledge is the full presence of the believer in God¹s presence, which
means that the return of Christ, the Millennium, would have to be the
pre-condition for such a state of perfected knowledge.  As I argue in my
article, if we were to consider that the Canon was the completed revelation
of which Paul spoke, then not only would tongues cease, but so would
Œteaching¹  because knowledge itself will Œpass away.¹  So for Paul¹s
prophesy to be fulfilled,
We would:
1. have to know fully just as we are now known by God
2. knowledge would have to be no more
3. all prophesy would have to be fulfilled ­ for it also passes away

The third nail in the coffin is prophesy, for Christ has not yet returned
and that prophesy has not passed away... Either that, or that prophesy would
be a false one! 

> 8    Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail;
> whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it
> shall vanish away.
> 9    For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
> 10    But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall
> be done away.
:-)
Jeff


~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jefferis Peterson, Pres.
Web Design and Marketing
http://www.PetersonSales.com


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