From jefferis at petersonsales.net Wed May 4 08:00:13 2005 From: jefferis at petersonsales.net (Jefferis Peterson) Date: Wed May 4 08:00:47 2005 Subject: [Roundtable] Where are the Men in the Church? Message-ID: I received this email today and thought it worthy to pass on. I remember reading a book called Wild at Heart that a friend recommended, and this one has a similar tone. I also have encountered a similar problem with one of my sons in elementary school where the teacher's greatest goal was to try and make my son into a good little girl: quiet and invisible. Needless to say, that was a bad year for my son. Jeff ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Where Are the Men by Andy Zoppelt I have often wondered--where are the real men in Christianity? Somehow you can find them in the world, but where are they in the church? Someone once responded to the question of where are the men by saying, "We have asked them to become women." While working in a steel mill back in Pennsylvania, men were challenged and were competitive. We did things together. We worked together, drank together, fought together and played together. There was a sense of competition, adventure and camaraderie. When I was drafted into the military, I signed up for airborne training?. for the extra drinking money. Yes, when you jump out of planes in the military they pay you a little more money. I was a scrapper, a drinker and a womanizer, and that all cost money. But there was adventure and a sense of being important. I heard a man once say, the military can take a young rebellious man for four years and give him a career, stability, and a place in society; the church has a man for twenty years and he is no more than a pew warmer. He is touchy, indifferent and alone. He just believes what he is told and sits quietly in the pew only to drop a portion of his hard earned pay in the basket in hopes of heaven at the end of the trail. In the military we developed meaningful relationships. Men could be men. You were proud to be a paratrooper, you put up with the hard training because you were made to feel like a man. Dangers and challenge drew us together. The fight to be better and to achieve was a motivating force. When there was a fight, we stood with our buddies. We didn't rat on one another and turn one another in. There was an unwritten moral code of conduct. If you violated it, you were forced out and marked by others. When I gave my life to Jesus, my expectations were high. I read of love, fellowship, function and a purpose for my life. I read about fighting the good fight of faith. I read of men laying down their lives for one another. I read of community and power. I read of participation in a body and a place which God purposed for me to fit. The more I read His word, the greater the distinction I saw between the church today and the Bible I embraced. Who was wrong? Or did God change His plan? Was the Bible just a reference book to review doctrine and provide material for Sunday messages by professional orators? Rather than experiencing church life and biblical relationship which were meant for iron to sharpen iron, we experience idealistic messages having nothing to do with being a part of a functioning group of brothers. We settle for information rather than transformation. As a man, what was meant for transformation became frustration reduced to information coming from only one source? the pulpit. I learned quickly I was too dumb and not articulate enough to participate in this highly qualified field and trade of professional. As a man, the church presented no challenge, no fight, no purpose, no function and no sense of belonging. The terrorist attack on 9-11 brought forth the need for men. The world looked on and watched the fireman, the policeman and the soldier. The world saw men in action, teaming together, experienced, trained and it became important for them to see men in men's positions. The switch quickly turned away from the rich and famous to the soldier and fire fighter. We became proud of our fireman and soldiers. The world is looking for real men, men built together like a team and that team joined throughout the city and nation. Not men marked by the division of denominational labels, but the unity found in Jesus only. Our lethargy and division has completely turned off the real men in search for meaning. While the church is becoming more irrelevant and audience driven, there is a call for men to leave the institutional and traditional way of doing church and come together to return to the biblical standard of being church that God intended. It will take real men with a real burden. It will take a heart completely given to the Lord and a desire to see His will in the body of Christ. I can hear the call from the Lord today, "let my men go." Men tell me of their wonderful men's meetings in their denominational division, but we are not changing, growing and demonstrating His unity, His faith, and His love in our cities. We have our little men's retreats around small talk led by "lay" leaders in search of their own significance. I want something more than that; I want to pray all night with a group of hungry brothers in Christ. I want to be one with a group of loyal and committed brothers. I want to get away from the professional entertainment of Sunday with its false hand shakes and phony hugs and I-love-you-brother rhetoric. I want something with depth, sacrifice and a bold commitment. I am tired of seeing names plastered on church billboards with slick slogans. I don't want to be a part of a group where the greatest challenge is waking up for the morning Sunday services. I am tired of programs that center on man's self-centered needs. I want to become a man? a fighting man, a man of adventure, a pathfinder?. A man conformed to His image. Church, let the men go. Pastors today are the main problem; they refuse to let their men go, they need the Sunday show to keep their careers afloat, and the large audiences to maintain their identity and significance? not to say anything of their salaries. The building must be paid for; we must build bigger building with the people?s money. The business must go on. We have relegated all ministry to a well organized impersonal machine to spread the gospel through slick professionals who are trained to look good and not make any mistakes. We are bound to organizational professionals to make sure everything is done correctly. Oh God, I cry for Him to send someone to set us free from the bondage of this institution created by the traditions of men. In the church, I have been ratted on, betrayed, exposed, cheated, marked, kicked out and unforgiven. My desire for challenge and adventure has been persecuted and renounced. My desire to be built with other men has been scandalized and ignored. We have become so dysfunctional in Christianity that we don't know what it means to function as a body. We are killing our wounded and often get shot in the back by our comrades in arms. In becoming a Christian I have lost my masculinity. I have become suspicious and expect relationships not to work. I have quickly learned we can only function as a crowd or a group in a sterile Bible study where we brag about the depth of the study and brilliance of the teacher. Where are the prayer warriors? Where are the men who encourage one another and stand by one another and do things together? Though the world has taught me how to be a man and stand by others on the job and military, the church has failed to teach me how to be a man. I feel like a paraplegic who has no use for my arms and legs, and atrophy has set in through the lack of use. I want to heal the sick, cast out demons, prophesy, challenge the world, see sinners "repent," not just "repeat" some unbiblical sterile sinners prayer? I want to truly know Jesus! I want to give Him all of my heart and all of my soul; I don't want to be forced into a pew-sitting career, a tithing number, a source for the benefit of the church staff and building. I don't want to be good or righteous without His power and His presence. I want to know Him!!!! My spirit wants to soar to greater heights in Him. I want to be with men that will stand in the battle and not leave and go AWOL at the first disagreement or challenge. I want to be with committed men who believe our relationship can turn the world upside down again. Let us pray till the power comes down. Let us seek Him until He restores His body without spot and wrinkle. Nothing in this world is worth living without His kingdom and His will. Hell is more than eternal banishment from the presence of God-- its flames are being felt today in a disjointed, divided and dysfunctional body. I am tired of being with emasculated males acting like frail women. Excuse me ladies, this is not a statement against you, we just need men to be men again. Many men today are unfulfilled, frustrated, depressed and angry. The church today doesn't know how to handle real men. It throws them a little bone now and then in a men's Bible study or retreat. Most Christian men are about as interesting as the fat man in some poster eating ice cream. Am I angry? Yes! I have been cheated and I want my calling back. I want to see Jesus back in the lives of real men. The church today in America has lost the battle for the hearts of men, and I want to see it back. I want discipleship and respect brought back to men. I want brotherhood and fatherhood back. I want to see men in the prayer trenches together again, men in the upper room waiting for the return of the power, and men in the streets together again. I want to see men with power and prestige. Oh, to see women deeply appreciative of how well their men have loved them, and children modeling the example of God's power and presence they see in their dad. Our options are limited. We can either become a pastor or have a part in the church band. We have fed the ego of the few at the cost of demoralizing and demobilizing the rest. Statistics have shown that men are leaving the church in the droves. You would think this is some kind of a new move of God. Men have left the church right and left seeking something to fulfill them. They have gone back to their friends or have found some fulfillment on their jobs. Many have become badly wounded by the impersonal institutional system. Our children are time bombs, waiting for the real shock of graduating from Sunday School coloring books and entertaining youth meetings, to face boredom in the church service in the main auditorium. They too have left and gone to the more exciting things the world has offered. We have tried to entertain our kids to keep them in "church," only to discover we have institutionalized them from the reality of "being" church. We have destroyed them with form without power. The military has taken our rebellious teenagers, got them to make their beds, show up on time, learn a trade, fit into society, have someone scream in their face and take it, and yet feel a sense of belonging and pride. The church has offered little or nothing to our young. Role models, older brothers, family and father figures are as rare as the humpback whale. Teenagers today can't wait to become old enough to leave the church in search of something more engaging. Twenty years in church makes for little change and adaptability. I know there are the exceptions, but the exception is not the rule. The world has been lost in this battle also. They have been taken captive in addiction, divorce, the occult, pornography and the entertainment craze. We have replaced the power of the church with para-church institutions and self help programs; all of which have left the seekers without the reality of Jesus and the church. So what are we to do? There is only one thing to do?. "become" the church and stop "going" to church. We must get out of this system which is designed for division, lethargy, and passivity. We must be brave enough to find the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. As long as we stay and support a derailed system, we will never find the truth. We need some brave and bold men to call a spade a spade and come together to seek out His pleasure. Men of truth today are a rare commodity and are often looked down upon. They are usually men who have refused to compromise and have often been persecuted by institutional thinkers. Their quest is often met with frustration and failure, a search today of which there is neither model nor path. I pray that men will become men again. www.TheRealChurch.com From jefferis at petersonsales.net Sun Jun 5 15:59:58 2005 From: jefferis at petersonsales.net (Jefferis Peterson) Date: Sun Jun 5 16:00:43 2005 Subject: [Roundtable] FW: A great call from the depths of hunger.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Knowing there are a lot of fellow travelers here dissatisfied with ?church as usual,? I thought you might enjoy this message which spoke to us today. I thought you might enjoy this letter... ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com ------ Forwarded Message A great call from the depths of hunger There is a mounting dissatisfaction streaming from a hunger for the real and the greater that God can do. Jer 4:19, "O my soul, my soul! I am pained in my very heart! My heart makes a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because you have heard, O my soul, The sound of the trumpet, The alarm of war. " NKJV The time is drawing near and almost past. Colin Wilson of 'Highland Christian News' writes: Dear Christian believer, For a considerable time now you have been strangely unsettled in your spirit. This has perplexed you - as you have just been getting on with your Christian walk and participating in the general life of the church. But you have been disturbed in yourself. You have re-read the pages of the Bible relating to the dynamic works of the apostles and the early disciples; and then compared these with what you have been experiencing in your own life and fellowship setting. And you have perceived a huge "mis-match"; a yawning gap between where (spiritually-speaking) things are now, and where the early followers of Christ were in their day. (Note: I am not suggesting that Pentecost is to be repeated; but rather continued.. Eph 5:18.) In different times and circumstances you may have felt that it was time to "move on to a new situation" in your journey with Christ, but in a strange way you have not felt any clear direction regarding which way to go. You have not felt called to "re-locate"; indeed you may have been feeling and continuing to feel that you need strive to identify more closely with your immediate neighbors and that section of society (neighborhood/ workplace, etc.) in your immediate orbit. In a strange way, any striving that you have done to draw closer to Christ, and to be more committed to His calling and God's word, has increased rather than reduced the dis-satisfaction and unrest that you have been feeling. And you have felt lonely even when surrounded by other Christians who do not seem to be disturbed in spirit in the way that you are. Most other Christians in fact seem to be just happily getting on with their lives. And this adds to your perplexity. "Is it just me? Why am I feeling this way? There must be something wrong with me; as most others seem to be getting along OK." You have been concerned that you might be getting cynical and critical over what you see as the increasing worldliness in the church. And you long for fellowship with others whom you feel might understand - in some measure at least - "where you are". But as you cautiously yet honestly open up to others whom you sense may be walking the same path, you find that they too in their heart of hearts have been going through exactly the same inner spiritual processes and turmoil as yourself. If you have been sensing or experiencing any of these things take heart dear child of God. I believe that what you have been going through is a God-given unsettledness, a Holy dissatisfaction with "what is"; and what He has been creating in you is to prepare you for the days to come. I believe a great crisis lies ahead - for society, its peoples and the religious system which many would call "the church"; and God needs those who have been weaned away from dependency on the structures, programs and other facets of organized churchianity. He is looking for those who hunger and thirst after righteousness; and long to be filled with the life-giving Spirit of God. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is searching for those who are - and will seek to be - Kingdom-builders (as opposed to empire-builders). He is desiring and preparing those who will seek to know nothing but Jesus Christ and Him crucified; those who will find no satisfaction in the trinkets of this world and who will spurn the carnal methods, the fixation with "success" and the worldly measurements of "spirituality" and "commitment" that have invaded the church. But, if you have not done so already, please consider some questions. Are you a believer who is prepared to "abandon all" in the cause of Christ and His Great Commission to reach the lost? Have you considered the cost, and are you prepared to pay that price in the context of the measure of grace that has been shown to you? Indeed, in your spirit, you realize that nothing short of total submission will slake your thirst for God and satisfy the desires of your heart. The way ahead could involve great sacrifice; and you may face rejection and much criticism - even from those around you and close to you in the "church", but it is this type of sacrifice in which the Lord delights (Matt 5:11&12). And indeed the cost of turning away from His calling upon your life will be even greater. Take heart dear follower of "the Way", you are not alone. Many others are being spoken to in exactly the same way as God is speaking to you. If it is not apparent to you yet, time will reveal those who will stand with you. Meanwhile equip yourself with (a knowledge of) His Word and abandon yourself to (the leading of) His spirit, that He might use you to the extent that He would, as the God of all ages works out His purposes in our fallen and needy world; both now and forever. Your God and my God has clearly stated through His Son Jesus Christ: "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteous-ness, because they shall be filled. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven." -Your brother, Colin Wilson. ------ End of Forwarded Message ------ End of Forwarded Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/roundtable/attachments/20050605/807f61e8/attachment.html