From jefferis at petersonsales.net Sat Jul 22 20:30:43 2006 From: jefferis at petersonsales.net (Jefferis Peterson) Date: Sat Jul 22 20:31:52 2006 Subject: [Roundtable] New Article up The Last Trumpet: Why There is no Pre-Tribulation or Mid-Tribulation Rapture Message-ID: Hi all, I put up a new article entitled: The Last Trumpet: Why There is no Pre-Tribulation or Mid-Tribulation Rapture Paul's View of the Last Days. http://www.scholarscorner.com/eschaton/lasttrump.html Excerpt: Those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation or Mid-Tribulation Rapture have argued that Jesus will appear and gather the saints and then disappear for either 7 years or 3.5 years while the Anti-Christ takes over the earth. However, Paul clearly states that when Jesus appears, Jesus will destroy the Lawless One and he will gather the saints in the air to meet him at the same time. There is no intervening period of 3 to 7 years. The logic is very simple. Paul identifies the return of the Lord with the slaying of the Anti-Christ [or Man of Lawlessness], he identifies the return of Christ with the Rapture [or Assembly to meet Jesus in the air], and he identifies the return of Christ with the Last Trumpet. Paul sees all three events as simultaneous.The Anti-Christ is causing a reign of terror before the coming of the Lord, and the saints are still on the earth being persecuted while the Man of Lawlessness has power. Paul even anticipates that he may even be alive at the time of the Lord's appearing during this time of persecution - which would mean that Paul, a faithful, believing saint, might be on the earth during the time of the tribulation. He is not being left behind because of apostasy... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jefferis Kent Peterson http://www.scholarscorner.com jefferis@scholarscorner.com Feeling Guilty? Are you "Pardoned or Paroled?" Such is God's economy: "One man gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should give, and only suffers lack." - Proverbs 11:24 From jefferis at petersonsales.net Wed Aug 30 10:04:39 2006 From: jefferis at petersonsales.net (Jefferis Peterson) Date: Wed Aug 30 10:05:16 2006 Subject: [Roundtable] FW: The Best summary of Islamic view of War as a religious command In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://www.ctlibrary.com/6312 The Four Jihads I read this today on Christianity Today online. I found it to be a fair, simple, clear, and concise summary of how war is viewed as a legitimate instrument of religious expansion. This article, written by a former Muslim, shows the development of the justification of wars of aggression by Muhammad in the Qur'an and outlines the attempt by moderates to put Islam in a more favorable light as a ?religion of peace.? However, the moderates seem to have less scriptural support than do the extremists, who indeed may be more ?faithful? to the teachings of Islam: > For Islam, however, the causes of justice and peace are synonymous with the > advance of the Muslim state, for politics and spirituality are inextricably > bound together in the dream of one world under the complete dominion of Allah > and His followers. So whereas Christian "just war" principles do not support > the notion of establishing the kingdom of God by force, the Islamic doctrine > of jihad unapologetically does. > > When the ummah (community or state) of Islam faces its history of coercion and > expansion, there is no shame or repentance. Islam, unlike Christianity, > teaches in its most authoritative sources that force is justifiable in the > cause of Allah. Far from feeling regret over past conquests, Islam takes pride > in this heritage. > > Indeed, many Muslims look back on the first three centuries of Islam as the > golden years of their heritage and long for a return to world ascendancy. > I often wondered why Western nations apologize for the Crusades [rightfully so, I believe], but there is no apology from Islamic nations for conquering Spain, N. Africa, Hungary, Greece and Europe to the borders of Vienna. For Christians, the Crusades and wars between Christians denominations can be viewed as a clear betrayal of it?s founders teachings and words. Since faith is a gift from God, Who Alone chooses to whom faith is given, attempts to convert others by force of arms, is not only a betrayal of Christ?s teachings, but illogical. Logic, however, has never stopped people from using religion to justify their greed. The extremists of Islam, however, are at least consistent and logical within their belief system... Jeff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/roundtable/attachments/20060830/beee1557/attachment.htm From jefferis at petersonsales.net Wed Sep 6 17:42:31 2006 From: jefferis at petersonsales.net (Jefferis Peterson) Date: Wed Sep 6 17:43:36 2006 Subject: [Roundtable] Gog and Magog at Armageddon? Message-ID: When I was a new Christian, I read The Late, Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey, and was sure that Russia was going to attack Israel and begin the end times at the Battle of Armageddon. Much ink was spilled seeking to prove that the tribes of Gog and Magog migrated to Moscow to become the new center for an end time alliance against Israel. This view of Russia as the new Magog dovetailed with the fact that Communism and the USSR were the major political and military threats to Western Christianity. But I was sure these enemies would be defeated at the Battle of Armageddon and then Christ was going to reign on earth physically for 1,000 years (the Millennium), before some last final temptation. However, there is a major problem in the chronology with this end time scenario. The first problem is that Gog and Magog do not attack until after the Millennial reign of Christ is completed! (Revelation 20:8) So, if Gog and Magog are going to be part of this end time battle which brings Christ return, then those who believe it must believe that the Millennium is occurring now and is a spiritual, not physical event. What I'm saying is that if we take Revelation at face value, the Battle of Armageddon has nothing to do with Gog and Magog. It has everything to do with Kings of the East, whomever they may be. (Revelation 16:12) This battle story continues through to Chapter 20, where the enemies of God are defeated. It says nothing about Armageddon, however we may assume the battle begins there. The problem is that there is no battle. The saints appear with Jesus riding in from heaven and Jesus appears to slay the enemies of God with the sword of his voice, or the Word of his mouth. There is no nuclear holocaust or fire from heaven. The only time a fire consumes Christ's enemies is after the Millennium, the thousand year reign of Christ on Earth: For more on this discussion: http://www.scholarscorner.com/eschaton/millennium.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com From jefferis at petersonsales.net Thu Sep 7 13:42:21 2006 From: jefferis at petersonsales.net (Jefferis Peterson) Date: Thu Sep 7 13:43:08 2006 Subject: [Roundtable] Is the Time of the Gentiles Fulfilled? =?iso-8859-1?q?=AD_?= Is This the Final Generation? Message-ID: Is the Time of the Gentiles Fulfilled? 40 Years After Jerusalem Returns to Jewish Hands ? Is This the Final Generation?. (see http://www.scholarscorner.com/eschaton/gentiles.html for reference links and full scripture references) I get skittish about end time predictions and dates. The landscape is littered with those "prophets" who have falsely predicted the end based upon current events or mathematical time tables, supposedly extrapolated from scripture. Around 1,000 A.D. the western world went mad with fear and speculation, and we had our own materialistic vision of the apocalypse with the Y2K scare of 2000. I remember listening to brother Kenneth Copeland say on one of his tapes that it would all be "wrapped up" by 1999. Jonathan Edwards' lesser known works deal with his speculation that he was in the end times; not to mention the failed predictions of the 7th Day Adventist's founders and the Jehovah's Witnesses many failed prophesies. However, there is one prophet I do trust, and his name is Jesus. One of the clearest sequential prophesies of Jesus is recorded by Luke. (See full Scripture Luke 21:5-36) When Jesus is asked about the fall of Jerusalem and the time of his return by his disciples, Jesus talks about both. He first warns about false messiahs, who say to the people "this is the end." He says that there will be wars and catastrophes, persecutions, and betrayals, but that is not the end. Then he tells of Jerusalem's destruction, the "days of vengeance" against Jerusalem for its rejection of the Covenant and of God's prophets (Luke 21:22). And then he speaks about the end times, and the great shakings that come upon the whole Earth before his Second Coming. All those prophesies are very general and not time specific. However, Jesus does give one clue, or sign, about the times of the end. He says, "Jerusalem shall be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." (Luke 21:4, NASB) And then he says something very interesting. He says, "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place." (Luke 21:32). If I read this chronology right, Jesus says that the end of the age of the Gentiles is accompanied by the Jewish re-establishment of Jerusalem, which is followed by signs in Heaven and Earth, and, that the generation then living will not die off until the fulfillment of all things takes place. Now here is the scary part. Jerusalem was recaptured by the Jews in 1967 during the Six Day War; it is no longer in Gentile hands. And in the Scriptures, a generation is about 40 years. 1967 to 2007 is 40 years! (Remember though that Jewish numerology is not exact, but a general number.) Wow! Jesus' words form the only precise end time chronology in the New Testament. The only caveat to this 40 year scenario is that, a generation now lives on average 80 years, and the entire generation won't die off, naturally, for 120 years. So if Jesus meant that the majority of the generation won't die off, somewhere between 40 to 80 years after the re-establishment of Jerusalem, we should start seeing the signs of the end in Heaven and Earth. Of course, with Iran's nuclear intentions, those "signs" could appear much sooner than later. (As and aside, I find it very interesting that the Iranian leaders believe that we are in the end of days, that a nuclear apocalypse will bring in their Messiah, and that they want to start the war now to set the last days in motion.) We have to remember that Jesus is Jewish. And he speaks as the Jewish Messiah, and he stands in the tradition of the prophets to Israel (Mark 6:15). He identifies with the rejected prophets throughout the history of Israel, he sees himself as one of them, and he sees the coming destruction of Jerusalem as God's judicial punishment of the people of Israel for their rejection of the Covenant's messengers: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it! Behold, your house is left to you desolate; and I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ?Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!'"Luke 13:34, 35, NASB. "Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. In fact, you bear witness that you approve the deeds of your fathers; for they indeed killed them, and you build their tombs. Therefore the wisdom of God also said, ?I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,? that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation." Luke 11:47-51, NKJV. (See also Leviticus 26:13-45, esp. verses 25 & 33; Deuteronomy 28:16-68, for historic precedents & predictions.) But as with the prophets of old, Jesus also sees and promises a future restoration of Israel and Jerusalem after the punishment and new Exile. How could it be that after 2000 years, the nation of Israel is restored?? Has any people been displaced and dispersed among the nations for such a length of time without being totally assimilated into the nations of their exile? And yet, Israel is reborn! Jesus' prophesy has come to pass! Along with Paul's prophecy about Israel's rejection of the Messiah "until the full number of Gentiles come in" (Romans 11:25-26), we have two clear prophecies about the completion of the Gentile age. Both Jews, Paul and Jesus, foresaw a time of the restoration of the promises of God to the natural children of Abraham - a promise that is not superceded by the inclusion of the Gentiles into the promise of salvation. So, my question to you is: Is the time of the Gentiles fulfilled? And if so, what could that possibly mean? Are we now at the time of the End? I cannot make heads nor tails of this prophecy except to expect some great times of tribulation and miracles. Of course, my interpretation of Jesus' words could be off for some reason, but I can't seem to make sense of it any other way. Perhaps if the Jews kick out everyone but the Jews from Jerusalem, we might have a new start date, but I think if Israel did that, it might be the actual start the apocalypse! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jefferis Kent Peterson http://www.scholarscorner.com jefferis@scholarscorner.com Feeling Guilty? Are you "Pardoned or Paroled?" Such is God's economy: "One man gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should give, and only suffers lack." - Proverbs 11:24 From jefferis at petersonsales.net Fri Sep 8 12:27:03 2006 From: jefferis at petersonsales.net (Jefferis Peterson) Date: Fri Sep 8 12:27:51 2006 Subject: [Roundtable] The Man of Lawlessness Message-ID: The Man of Lawlessness, a Man of Many Laws http://www.scholarscorner.com/eschaton/manlaws.html Why Legalism is a Hallmark of A Lawless Spirit 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, RSV. 1 Timothy 1:8-10, NIV. If we look throughout history at recent despots and tyrants like Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and Mao, what is notable is the fact that all these rulers used an extensive legal system to control their people. The massive legal apparatuses, their courts controlled by party loyalty rather than impartial justice, legalized punishment for all types of infractions, minor and major. It was through the instrumentality of the law that they gained inordinate control over the lives and "loyalty" of their people. They held the people in subjection through threats of punishment or death, and heightened fear of exposure through an extensive network of spies. Hitler used the law to establish his dictatorship, and then passed laws that outlawed opposition parties. Later, he used his powers to legalized the inhumane treatment of the Jews. What is common to these dictators is not only that they want absolute power over the lives of others, but that they want to extinguish freedom of thought, of speech, of opposition and true debate. They want to control human behavior and they demand ultimate and complete allegiance from all who surround them. Any person found to waver in his support is removed from power, arrested, or executed. Mao's "re-education" camps were an attempt not only to control the behavior of the opposition, but to control the thoughts of the heart and mind to force them into abject obedience. In short, demagogues demand a godlike obedience that not even God requires of his subjects. The irony is that despots use the laws of the land to justify their lawless behaviors. Hit squads, abductions, assassinations and torture become part of the arsenal of the State, in its quest for security and secrecy. It isn't just for matters of national security, but these forces of intimidation and murder are used to eliminate perceived enemies as well as those who only disagree with their policies. The extreme examples of the misuse of the law for evil purposes are genocides [the Holocaust or persecution of a race of people, the Gypsies, e.g.], forced sterilizations of people determined to be "inferior," for imprisoning opposition parties, and for enforcing personality cults, like Maoism or F?hrer worship. In other words, the law, or the power of law, is misused by despots to cloak evil behaviors. It is this misuse of the law, to make what is evil appear to be good, that is at the heart of lawlessness. In some ways, Hitler had the appearance of good things. He taught children to respect their elders, he restored the economy, and he suppressed public immorality. Yet at the root of his "order" was a craving for personal and absolute power over the lives of others. If we take Hitler as an example, we can see that the heart of lawlessness will flourish in a State with many laws. Laws create power, and laws misused can reinforce injustice. Since Paul says, this man will be one "who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God," we can surmise that he will have the power to enforce absolute obedience and worship over all his subjects. He can only enforce such control over people through a worldwide legal and governmental system which has the power to kill or imprison all of those who oppose him. For this reason, the "Man of Lawlessness" will have the appearance of morality and be a man of many laws. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com