From wes at the101series.com Thu Jan 11 11:24:08 2007 From: wes at the101series.com (wes olson) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:24:08 -0800 Subject: [Roundtable] a problem bigger than war Message-ID: <000001c7359c$ee584100$f993f204@your4f1261a8e5> This year I am embarking on a study of Christians and war (justifiable force). I am also studying Chitins and Christmas and Christians and the movies. I recognize now these all have to do with a Christians response to their culture. THE PROBLEM premise 1: People are driven to celebrate, enjoy seasons, be part of the culture around them (e.g. the nation of Israel) premise 2: When people get saved, they get a spiritual identity in Christ, but no physical culture to replace the one they left. conclusion: Christians are left with a cultural vacuum and tension. I am hoping to resolve which one of these premise's or what part of this conclusion is in error. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/roundtable/attachments/20070111/1e87ba4c/attachment.html From jefferis at petersonsales.net Thu Jan 11 12:47:20 2007 From: jefferis at petersonsales.net (Jefferis Peterson) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:47:20 -0500 Subject: [Roundtable] a problem bigger than war In-Reply-To: <000001c7359c$ee584100$f993f204@your4f1261a8e5> Message-ID: On 1/11/07 11:24 AM, "wes olson" wrote: > This year I am embarking on a study of Christians and war (justifiable force). > I am also studying Chitins and Christmas and Christians and the movies. I > recognize now these all have to do with a Christians response to their > culture. > > THE PROBLEM > > premise 1: People are driven to celebrate, enjoy seasons, be part of the > culture around them (e.g. the nation of Israel) > > premise 2: When people get saved, they get a spiritual identity in Christ, but > no physical culture to replace the one they left. > > conclusion: Christians are left with a cultural vacuum and tension. > > > I am hoping to resolve which one of these premise's or what part of this > conclusion is in error. Hi Wes, I?m not sure there is a conflict at this point, but let me give you my initial feedback and see if I?m understanding what you are after. Every aspect of God?s involvement in history has always been incarnate and in-culture-ated. The scriptures are written through the fabric of the culture in which the people live, the governments and the times. Calvin talked about the three aspects of the OT law: the moral [unchanging as a reflection of the character of God], the ritual [superceded by Christ's fulfillment], and the civic [case law that depends upon the spirit of the law in a local or governmental context]. So, civic laws about 10% civil taxes, involuntary servitude of aliens, how you approach the king in court, etc., are conditional laws that reflect the times and the culture. Hanging horse thieves may have been appropriate in the old West, where people's lives depended upon their horses; while today it isn't - may be an example of changing cultural laws. Have your read the profound by short book by H Richard Niehbur? Christ and Culture (Torchbooks) (Paperback) by H. Richard Niebuhr http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Culture-Torchbooks-Richard-Niebuhr/dp/00613000 39/sr=8-1/qid=1168537630/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-1709065-3635268?ie=UTF8&s=books He talks about the 5 approaches to culture: Christ Transforming Culture is one of the options. Jeff ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com From wes at the101series.com Fri Jan 12 12:18:01 2007 From: wes at the101series.com (wes olson) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:18:01 -0800 Subject: [Roundtable] Roundtable Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c7366d$9eafb940$7f3cf204@your4f1261a8e5> Jeff, Thanks for the reply. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree...wouldn't be the first time. My family and I (and many Christians around me) struggle with their Christianity on the one hand, and the pressures of this culture on the other hand. Now that we are Christians, do we go to war? Should we celebrate holidays that are pagan in origin? Should we watch movies that present unedifying images and message (98% of all Hollywood movies)? Or do we watch them for the "redemptive" qualities we can find in them. We perceive a tension here that is difficult to resolve since Christianity seems to provide no culture to replace the one we have left behind. Does that make any sense? My "Christ & Culture" is coming in this week. Wes -----Original Message----- From: roundtable-bounces at scholarscorner.com [mailto:roundtable-bounces at scholarscorner.com] On Behalf Of roundtable-request at scholarscorner.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:03 AM To: roundtable at scholarscorner.com Subject: Roundtable Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2 Send Roundtable mailing list submissions to roundtable at scholarscorner.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/roundtable or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to roundtable-request at scholarscorner.com You can reach the person managing the list at roundtable-owner at scholarscorner.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Roundtable digest..." The Roundtable Digest The Mail List of The Scholar's Corner Today's Topics: 1. Re: a problem bigger than war (Jefferis Peterson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:47:20 -0500 From: Jefferis Peterson Subject: Re: [Roundtable] a problem bigger than war To: "Roundtable [Posts]" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" On 1/11/07 11:24 AM, "wes olson" wrote: > This year I am embarking on a study of Christians and war (justifiable > force). I am also studying Chitins and Christmas and Christians and > the movies. I recognize now these all have to do with a Christians > response to their culture. > > THE PROBLEM > > premise 1: People are driven to celebrate, enjoy seasons, be part of > the culture around them (e.g. the nation of Israel) > > premise 2: When people get saved, they get a spiritual identity in > Christ, but no physical culture to replace the one they left. > > conclusion: Christians are left with a cultural vacuum and tension. > > > I am hoping to resolve which one of these premise's or what part of > this conclusion is in error. Hi Wes, I?m not sure there is a conflict at this point, but let me give you my initial feedback and see if I?m understanding what you are after. Every aspect of God?s involvement in history has always been incarnate and in-culture-ated. The scriptures are written through the fabric of the culture in which the people live, the governments and the times. Calvin talked about the three aspects of the OT law: the moral [unchanging as a reflection of the character of God], the ritual [superceded by Christ's fulfillment], and the civic [case law that depends upon the spirit of the law in a local or governmental context]. So, civic laws about 10% civil taxes, involuntary servitude of aliens, how you approach the king in court, etc., are conditional laws that reflect the times and the culture. Hanging horse thieves may have been appropriate in the old West, where people's lives depended upon their horses; while today it isn't - may be an example of changing cultural laws. Have your read the profound by short book by H Richard Niehbur? Christ and Culture (Torchbooks) (Paperback) by H. Richard Niebuhr http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Culture-Torchbooks-Richard-Niebuhr/dp/00613 000 39/sr=8-1/qid=1168537630/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-1709065-3635268?ie=UTF8&s=b ooks He talks about the 5 approaches to culture: Christ Transforming Culture is one of the options. Jeff ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Roundtable mailing list Roundtable at scholarscorner.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/roundtable End of Roundtable Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2 ***************************************** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/622 - Release Date: 1/10/2007 2:52 PM From jefferis at petersonsales.net Fri Jan 12 13:06:45 2007 From: jefferis at petersonsales.net (Jefferis Peterson) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:06:45 -0500 Subject: [Roundtable] Roundtable Digest, Vol 29, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <000001c7366d$9eafb940$7f3cf204@your4f1261a8e5> Message-ID: On 1/12/07 12:18 PM, "wes olson" wrote: > Jeff, > Thanks for the reply. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree...wouldn't be > the first time. My family and I (and many Christians around me) > struggle with their Christianity on the one hand, and the pressures of > this culture on the other hand. Now that we are Christians, do we go to > war? Should we celebrate holidays that are pagan in origin? Should we > watch movies that present unedifying images and message (98% of all > Hollywood movies)? Or do we watch them for the "redemptive" qualities > we can find in them. We perceive a tension here that is difficult to > resolve since Christianity seems to provide no culture to replace the > one we have left behind. Does that make any sense? > My "Christ & Culture" is coming in this week. > Wes Hi Wes, I believe the tension you face is the same one we all face, and all Christians have faced throughout time. Christ against culture advocates advocate withdrawal [like the Amish], but it usually produces no effective ministry. The Mennonites are pacifists, but engage the world. The polar opposite is of the Amish are those who identify an earthly government with Christianity per se, which led to the corruptions of the Papal States and wars between states over religious identification: Protestant or Catholic, and the use of the state by the Church to enforce doctrines, as in the Inquisition or Calvin's Geneva, or Luther's crusade against the Anabaptists. Paul is an interesting case study. He was not above using his Roman citizenship to protect himself from the injustice of the mob: "But when they had tied him up with thongs, Paul said to the centurion who was standing by, "Is it legal for you to flog a Roman citizen who is uncondemned?" When the centurion heard that, he went to the tribune and said to him, "What are you about to do? This man is a Roman citizen." The tribune came and asked Paul, "Tell me, are you a Roman citizen?" And he said, "Yes." The tribune answered, "It cost me a large sum of money to get my citizenship." Paul said, "But I was born a citizen." Immediately those who were about to examine him drew back from him; and the tribune also was afraid, for he realized that Paul was a Roman citizen and that he had bound him. Since he wanted to find out what Paul was being accused of by the Jews, the next day he released him and ordered the chief priests and the entire council to meet. He brought Paul down and had him stand before them." Acts 22:25-30, NRSV. What was the problem here? If they flogged a citizen without proper trial, the whole city could be destroyed if Paul pressed the matter. The Romans were ruthless. Paul also used the benefit of the Pax Romana to travel freely through the Empire spreading the Gospel, a road not possible if bandits and warring city states ruled the land. Paul considered the government, however imperfect and corrupt, an instrument in God's hand for the suppression of evil {Romans 13}, as did Peter. Governments can, by nature, more or less support justice and the gospel or oppose them both through corruption and persecution, so the Church's stance will vary on the degree of cooperation there is between Christ and Culture. In the 1950's, e.g., with Leave It To Beaver on the television, the culture generally supported traditional Christian moral values. The schools encouraged and reinforced those values taught at home. Divorce was not even legitimized by the Supreme Court, and in the 1940's cited the Scriptures as their reason for not allowing it. There has been a massive shift in the culture since then, where now, the schools in part and the government and the laws in large part oppose Christianity and Christian values. Life is no longer considered sacred, and sexuality is no longer a matter of morals but of liberties, desires and 'rights.' Rampant individualism has replaced the sense of civic responsibility, which was considered more basic to the foundation of social liberty. Here is a short article I wrote about the way the church can cooperate with civil society in the sphere common grace for the benefit of the mutual common good: http://www.scholarscorner.com/Scriptum/sherald.htm#Adversaries And it refers to the work of the Center For Public Justice, which based its theology on Abraham Kuyper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Kuyper > He developed so-called Neo-Calvinism, which differs from conventional > Calvinism over issues such as divine grace and the role of the state. > Furthermore, Kuyper was the first to formulate the principle of common grace > in the context of a Reformed world-view. > Most important has been Kuyper's view on the role of God in everyday life. He > believed that God continually influenced the life of believers, and daily > events could show his workings. Kuyper famously said, "No single piece of our > mental world is to be hermetically sealed off from the rest, and there is not > a square inch in the whole domain of our human existence over which Christ, > who is Sovereign over all, does not cry: 'Mine!'" God continually re-creates > the universe through acts of grace. God's acts are necessary to ensure the > continued existence of creation. Without his direct activity creation would > self-destruct. Now as to how we participate in culture, it takes daily decision making. Some movies, for example, that promote the occult [witchcraft and divination], horror [fear is not of God], or pornography, we will not see as a matter of course [keep yourself unstained from the world]. For why should we tempt ourselves with things God despises, and use for our entertainment things he calls 'abominations?' But some movies are like the Psalms, they tell the story of human perspectives, laments, hopes, and fears, struggles, victories and defeats. Ballads of the human condition are not something we need to shun. Some even wade deeply into theology: Amadeus for one or the first Matrix [which I consider an anti-abortion film :-) ]. While not seeking out reasons to offend God, I also recognize that living in this world is going to require a daily foot washing as I will come in contact with the dirt of this earth. I will make mistakes. I will be enticed by things I should not and be tempted by the ubiquity of sensuality even when I'm only trying to watch the news! Sometimes there are reasons for withdrawal, for prayer and seeking God's face in the matters of life. At other times, Jesus goes back down the mountain after a transfiguration to get involved with the lives of people in the real world. The more major questions of participation in war, citizenship and its responsibilities, and the like, I will leave till you get deeper into the course :-) Jeff ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com From jefferis at petersonsales.net Mon Jan 15 17:37:07 2007 From: jefferis at petersonsales.net (Jefferis Peterson) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:37:07 -0500 Subject: [Roundtable] Release of my book online Message-ID: Pardoned or Paroled? The Second Edition: I have recently made available the Full Second Edition online. We are releasing the book online in hopes of creating a better market for the work, since we do not currently have a distributor. http://www.ScholarsCorner.com/pardoned.html In Christ, Jeff Still available for purchase at www.is61.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jefferis Kent Peterson http://www.scholarscorner.com jefferis at scholarscorner.com Feeling Guilty? Are you "Pardoned or Paroled?" From jefferis at petersonsales.net Thu Jan 18 09:26:47 2007 From: jefferis at petersonsales.net (Jefferis Peterson) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:26:47 -0500 Subject: [Roundtable] FW: Steve Jobs at Stanford In-Reply-To: <17366283.1169125895751.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: This is an amazing speech, and very powerful. Even though Steve Jobs is not a Christian, I found it to be something like faith... ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com This is the text of the Commencement address by Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Computer and of Pixar Animation Studios, delivered on June 12, 2005. I am honored to be with you today at your commencement from one of the finest universities in the world. I never graduated from college. Truth be told, this is the closest I've ever gotten to a college graduation. Today I want to tell you three stories from my life. That's it. No big deal. Just three stories. The first story is about connecting the dots. I dropped out of Reed College after the first 6 months, but then stayed around as a drop-in for another 18 months or so before I really quit. So why did I drop out? It started before I was born. My biological mother was a young, unwed college graduate student, and she decided to put me up for adoption. She felt very strongly that I should be adopted by college graduates, so everything was all set for me to be adopted at birth by a lawyer and his wife. Except that when I popped out they decided at the last minute that they really wanted a girl. So my parents, who were on a waiting list, got a call in the middle of the night asking: "We have an unexpected baby boy; do you want him?" They said: "Of course." My biological mother later found out that my mother had never graduated from college and that my father had never graduated from high school. She refused to sign the final adoption papers. She only relented a few months later when my parents promised that I would someday go to college. And 17 years later I did go to college. But I naively chose a college that was almost as expensive as Stanford, and all of my working-class parents' savings were being spent on my college tuition. After six months, I couldn't see the value in it. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life and no idea how college was going to help me figure it out. And here I was spending all of the money my parents had saved their entire life. So I decided to drop out and trust that it would all work out OK. It was pretty scary at the time, but looking back it was one of the best decisions I ever made. The minute I dropped out I could stop taking the required classes that didn't interest me, and begin dropping in on the ones that looked interesting. It wasn't all romantic. I didn't have a dorm room, so I slept on the floor in friends' rooms, I returned coke bottles for the 5? deposits to buy food with, and I would walk the 7 miles across town every Sunday night to get one good meal a week at the Hare Krishna temple. I loved it. And much of what I stumbled into by following my curiosity and intuition turned out to be priceless later on. Let me give you one example: Reed College at that time offered perhaps the best calligraphy instruction in the country. Throughout the campus every poster, every label on every drawer, was beautifully hand calligraphed. Because I had dropped out and didn't have to take the normal classes, I decided to take a calligraphy class to learn how to do this. I learned about serif and san serif typefaces, about varying the amount of space between different letter combinations, about what makes great typography great. It was beautiful, historical, artistically subtle in a way that science can't capture, and I found it fascinating. None of this had even a hope of any practical application in my life. But ten years later, when we were designing the first Macintosh computer, it all came back to me. And we designed it all into the Mac. It was the first computer with beautiful typography. If I had never dropped in on that single course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts. And since Windows just copied the Mac, its likely that no personal computer would have them. If I had never dropped out, I would have never dropped in on this calligraphy class, and personal computers might not have the wonderful typography that they do. Of course it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards ten years later. Again, you can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something - your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. This approach has never let me down, and it has made all the difference in my life. My second story is about love and loss. I was lucky - I found what I loved to do early in life. Woz and I started Apple in my parents garage when I was 20. We worked hard, and in 10 years Apple had grown from just the two of us in a garage into a $2 billion company with over 4000 employees. We had just released our finest creation - the Macintosh - a year earlier, and I had just turned 30. And then I got fired. How can you get fired from a company you started? Well, as Apple grew we hired someone who I thought was very talented to run the company with me, and for the first year or so things went well. But then our visions of the future began to diverge and eventually we had a falling out. When we did, our Board of Directors sided with him. So at 30 I was out. And very publicly out. What had been the focus of my entire adult life was gone, and it was devastating. I really didn't know what to do for a few months. I felt that I had let the previous generation of entrepreneurs down - that I had dropped the baton as it was being passed to me. I met with David Packard and Bob Noyce and tried to apologize for screwing up so badly. I was a very public failure, and I even thought about running away from the valley. But something slowly began to dawn on me - I still loved what I did. The turn of events at Apple had not changed that one bit. I had been rejected, but I was still in love. And so I decided to start over. I didn't see it then, but it turned out that getting fired from Apple was the best thing that could have ever happened to me. The heaviness of being successful was replaced by the lightness of being a beginner again, less sure about everything. It freed me to enter one of the most creative periods of my life. During the next five years, I started a company named NeXT, another company named Pixar, and fell in love with an amazing woman who would become my wife. Pixar went on to create the worlds first computer animated feature film, Toy Story, and is now the most successful animation studio in the world. In a remarkable turn of events, Apple bought NeXT, I retuned to Apple, and the technology we developed at NeXT is at the heart of Apple's current renaissance. And Laurene and I have a wonderful family together. I'm pretty sure none of this would have happened if I hadn't been fired from Apple. It was awful tasting medicine, but I guess the patient needed it. Sometimes life hits you in the head with a brick. Don't lose faith. I'm convinced that the only thing that kept me going was that I loved what I did. You've got to find what you love. And that is as true for your work as it is for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven't found it yet, keep looking. Don't settle. As with all matters of the heart, you'll know when you find it. And, like any great relationship, it just gets better and better as the years roll on. So keep looking until you find it. Don't settle. My third story is about death. When I was 17, I read a quote that went something like: "If you live each day as if it was your last, someday you'll most certainly be right." It made an impression on me, and since then, for the past 33 years, I have looked in the mirror every morning and asked myself: "If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And whenever the answer has been "No" for too many days in a row, I know I need to change something. Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything - all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart. About a year ago I was diagnosed with cancer. I had a scan at 7:30 in the morning, and it clearly showed a tumor on my pancreas. I didn't even know what a pancreas was. The doctors told me this was almost certainly a type of cancer that is incurable, and that I should expect to live no longer than three to six months. My doctor advised me to go home and get my affairs in order, which is doctor's code for prepare to die. It means to try to tell your kids everything you thought you'd have the next 10 years to tell them in just a few months. It means to make sure everything is buttoned up so that it will be as easy as possible for your family. It means to say your goodbyes. I lived with that diagnosis all day. Later that evening I had a biopsy, where they stuck an endoscope down my throat, through my stomach and into my intestines, put a needle into my pancreas and got a few cells from the tumor. I was sedated, but my wife, who was there, told me that when they viewed the cells under a microscope the doctors started crying because it turned out to be a very rare form of pancreatic cancer that is curable with surgery. I had the surgery and I'm fine now. This was the closest I've been to facing death, and I hope its the closest I get for a few more decades. Having lived through it, I can now say this to you with a bit more certainty than when death was a useful but purely intellectual concept: No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don't want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life's change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true. Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of other's opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary. When I was young, there was an amazing publication called The Whole Earth Catalog, which was one of the bibles of my generation. It was created by a fellow named Stewart Brand not far from here in Menlo Park, and he brought it to life with his poetic touch. This was in the late 1960's, before personal computers and desktop publishing, so it was all made with typewriters, scissors, and polaroid cameras. It was sort of like Google in paperback form, 35 years before Google came along: it was idealistic, and overflowing with neat tools and great notions. Stewart and his team put out several issues of The Whole Earth Catalog, and then when it had run its course, they put out a final issue. It was the mid-1970s, and I was your age. On the back cover of their final issue was a photograph of an early morning country road, the kind you might find yourself hitchhiking on if you were so adventurous. Beneath it were the words: "Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish." It was their farewell message as they signed off. Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish. And I have always wished that for myself. And now, as you graduate to begin anew, I wish that for you. Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish. Thank you all very much. Steve Jobs From jefferis at petersonsales.net Tue Mar 27 13:42:46 2007 From: jefferis at petersonsales.net (Jefferis Peterson) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 13:42:46 -0400 Subject: [Roundtable] God was In Christ Message-ID: "that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation." 2 Corinthians 5:19, RSV. I've been thinking about this phrase this past week as the Lord opened my eyes and gave me some revelation into it. If I may say it another way: God was in Christ, reconciling the whole world to himself not counting our trespasses against us... As we have been studying Jeremiah, I have been depressed about the state of our nation and its similarity to Judah of Jeremiah's day. I've been upset about the political blindness and self centeredness, even the stupidity that won't try to prevent illegals from smuggling nuclear weapons or biochemical agents across our borders. And I've been upset by the compromise of the republicans and by the negativity and complaining of the democrats who are against everything and pointing figures of blame at all opponents, but who are FOR absolutely nothing coherent themselves. But this week I caught a glimpse of God. We tend to want justice and righteousness and vindication of the good, but that isn't God's concern. In his eyes, justice has already been served, the punishment for every evil deed has already been meted out, the penalty has been paid, and the accounts are already settled. Every evil the politicians or the Islamists or the Jews or the Christians or the corporate thieves or the Church does - God has already executed justice and judgment upon it. He put his own Son to death for those crimes. His justice has been satisfied, and the price has been paid. God has gotten even with sin! God is not interested in earthly justice or settling scores; he is interested in being reconciled to his enemies and saving them. Yes, he is still angry at the unearthly powers and spiritual hosts of wickedness who inspire evil deeds, but he is not keeping track of the sins of people. That is not his major concern. Christ died for every last sin. God is not counting sins. He is not keeping track of them. He is NOT paying attention to them. His only concern is reaching the lost and reaching out to them to save them. "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world,"- (1Jo 2:2). Every sin has already been atoned. Every wickedness was foreseen and punished on the Cross. So this is so hard for me to grasp, but God is not keeping track of the sins of homosexuality. or abortion. or rape, or murder, or abuse or of those who advocate for immoral policies and lawlessness. Oh yes, these sins still cause pain and still have consequences, sometimes bringing moral and spiritual as well as physical destruction, but God is not counting the sins of the advocates for sexual sin, nor is he keeping track of the persecution of his church. He wants to redeem those under the darkness of those demonic power and bring them into the light of his presence. His whole motivation is his great love for fallen humanity and to rescue them from their lostness under the powers of this age. God was in Christ, reconciling himself to us. And he has sent us out as ambassadors of this great love. I had to pray to the Lord to give me his kind of love for his enemies; to give me his overwhelming compassion so that all I care about is their salvation, not about their sins. I prayed to see these lost and estranged enemies with his eyes and through his heart of compassion, that I may minister to them, not his judgments but his sacrificial love. Certainly to see things his way is not natural to me. I want justice in the political sphere, but my justice and his are far different. I want just laws, but he wants an end to the motives of sin in the human heart. And he knows the only way that is possible is if his enemies are reconciled to him. What does it mean that he is not counting the trespasses? It means judgment is the furthest thing from his mind: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!" - Lu 13:34 Yes there is a consequence for rebellion, rejection, and refusing to be reconciled to God, but God is not counting that sin either. Every sin that was, is, or ever will be has been executed on the Cross of Christ. He already got even with us for our sins. Now it does not count. So what should our attitude be towards sinful man and sinful laws? Because there is still a restraining function of the law to protect the weak and the innocent, there is a point to doing what we can to establish temporal justice. But our motive towards our enemies should be not merely to seek political victory or legal justice, but an overwhelming desire to see these people reconciled to Jesus Christ - and we should be not counting their sins against them. That means, it may not be helpful to my spirit to watch the nightly news or listen to Rush Limbaugh, or watch either Fox News or CNN, whose advocacies for partisan causes stir the blood and foment either anger or fear; or whose focus on every injustice causes the in us desire for vengeance or resort to force of arms. These things distract from the cause for which Christ died. I'm not saying we should be ignorant of these things, but only that we should give a passing glance to the Goliaths of the land, and fix our gaze upon God and his beauty, and by our rapt attention, be conformed to his image so that we may reflect his glory, his love and his compassions. God is not counting the sins of CNN or Schumer or Kennedy or Barney Frank or Bush or Cheney or Rove or Fox, but God was in Christ reconciling himself to them.... In Jesus, Jeff ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com