From jefferis at petersonsales.net Fri Nov 16 17:38:09 2007 From: jefferis at petersonsales.net (Jefferis Peterson) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:38:09 -0500 Subject: [Roundtable] Taking the Kingdom In-Reply-To: <166190.8629.qm@web32203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I have been having a terrible time trying to find my bearings. I went from praising the Lord continuously last week, to feeling distressed this week, mostly over a young girl (with a death sentence from her doctors due to cancer), her need and my inability to latch onto the miraculous. What heightened my discomfort is that I?ve had this sense from time to time that the promises of the covenant are already mine, and they are laid out for us to take hold of by faith, almost as it were, to reach across the divide between the natural and the supernatural and to take hold of the things of the Spirit by faith. The sense has been almost tangible, but my ability to actually do that by the Spirit has been frustrated as I feel like I have been brought up short of the goal. I don?t know how to describe it, but it relates to what I felt a couple of months ago about things already being true in heaven, like healings, from God?s perspective on things... because they were accomplished already for us on the Cross: He sees us as healed already. But making it effective and tangible in the natural is where I can?t quite grasp what I see. And because of the young girl?s need, the pressure to find its reality is all the greater, leading me to depression rather than praise and joy and freedom in the Spirit. >From this morning, I am trying to figure out what the heck this passage means, which seems somehow to be related to this struggle: Mt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. Suffers violence = biazo - suffer violence 1, press 1) to use force, to apply force 2) to force, inflict violence on > Biazo comes from the word: bios - life > 1) life > 1a) life extensively > 1a1) the period or course of life > 1b) that by which life is sustained, resources, wealth, goods Take it by force = Harpazo take by force, catch away, catch, pull 1) to seize, carry off by force 2) to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly 3) to snatch out or away I found these commentaries but not sure they are accurate: > By examining the meaning of these words carefully we are made to understand > that the Greek words for 'violent' and 'violence' in this instance points to > someone who lays hold of the Gospel with their whole being in a no nonsense > sort of way, fully intending to hear, receive and do what God says. > > It refers to someone who is said to be "taking the kingdom by force" or > "forcing their way into the kingdom by grabbing hold of it". It can also refer > to someone who; when they hear the Good News of the Message of the Kingdom, > they seize hold of it and press their way in by means of it. In either case > the meaning's the same. > > And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven > suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. What is the meaning of > this verse? Bivin and Blizzard (Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus, > 123ff) explain that it relates to a rabbinic midrashic exegesis of Micah > 2:12-13, "I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather > the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the > flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the > multitude of men. The breaker is come up before them: they have broken up, and > have passed through the gate, and are gone out by it: and their king shall > pass before them, and the LORD on the head of them." The picture is of a > shepherd penning his sheep for the night, blocking the exit with stones, which > in the morning he opens by tossing some of the stones aside. The sheep are > anxious to get out, pushing and shoving and breaking the hole open even more. > Rabbinic midrash interpreted the shepherd as Elijah and the king as the > Messiah. "Suffereth violence" here means "breaking forth" and "the violent > take it by force" means "those who are breaking out, break out by means of > it." The verse is therefore saying in essence that John opened the breach and > now Jesus the king is leading the people, the sheep, through it. Indeed, one > may regard this as a clear claim to divinity, as Jesus identifies himself as > the Lord Yahweh! > > http://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/charles_spurgeon/sermons/0252.html > Spurgeon preached: WHEN JOHN THE BAPTIST preached in the wilderness of Judea, > the throng of people who pressed around him became extremely violent to get > near enough to hear his voice. > > While a contrary interpretation is : > (This is not a large span of time, only through John and Jesus? life. The > violent men attempting to seize the Kingdom of Heaven by force are the > religious establishment of His day to whom He addressed this remark.) > My stress prevents me from praising, so, I laid down for a nap and prayer. I was talking with another friend, a pastor who has also been weaned from the ministry by dwindling numbers in his congregation and the lack of the miraculous. We joked quite a bit that we have not seen much of the miraculous in spite of all the claims by many to having been healed and ministers who make money on TV shows by promoting people who get ?healed? but are so unexcited by their ?healings from deafness? that you wonder what?s going on. I was remarking that it shouldn?t be that way. When Jesus healed them, they didn?t have to try to know they were healed and had to hold onto their healing by faith or they would lose it, but they went out screaming and shouting and couldn?t keep their mouths? shut about Jesus because they were so excited by what happened. They knew without a doubt that they were healed and it was a miracle. So, as I lay down, I told the Lord he?s going to have to do it to me too so that I can actually be a witness for him and not just give hearsay evidence. As far as I?m concerned, all I?ve ever been able to do is give hearsay. Having never walked in it myself, having never received it myself, having never been healed, I don?t know it is true my soul, I lack confidence, and I cannot give convicting and convincing testimony of what I myself have not tasted, touched, and seen of God. So I told him he has to do it to me so that I can declare his Glory. I?ve been trying to do it out of good intentions and the principle of the thing, and the mental conviction, but it just isn?t substance and reality to me personally. It is, as my wife says, ?a mind game.? The word to ?know? in the bible is to know or understand by becoming ONE with, as in sexual union. To know God in this way is to participate in his healings by becoming a partner in them, receiving of them for oneself, and become a living / breathing partaker of his presence in this way. Only in that does it go from concept of the mind to substance and reality. From hope and desire to truth in the inmost parts of the soul. And only by participating in Him in this does it go from soul strength to the Spiritual reality and to true faith. All else is just wishful thinking, which to me is where I have lived for all these years, looking over at the land of Promise from a far mountain top, but not allowed to go in and take it. By saying this to the Lord, that he has to do it to me, so that I can declare his glory, and all else is vain effort on my part and out of the agency of my flesh, I seemed to find some peace before Him and can again enter into praise. I solicit your prayers on behalf of this young girl and myself. For those of you who do not know her history, by all accounts, she should have died years ago with this virulent cancer, but I always had a vision for her, I believe from the Lord, that she would see Jesus, be healed, and do many signs and wonders for him.... Jeff ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jefferis Peterson, Pres. 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