[Slowhand] Slowhand Digest, Vol 3, Issue 477

Tue Aug 24 13:27:49 EDT 2004

Can somebody please tell me how to get unsubscribed from this CD-science
class torture?

I have tried everything, but this mail just keeps coming.

Thanks,
Emma

----- Original Message -----
From: <slowhand-request at planet-torque.com>
To: <slowhand at planet-torque.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 5:59 PM
Subject: Slowhand Digest, Vol 3, Issue 477

> Send Slowhand mailing list submissions to
> slowhand at planet-torque.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/slowhand
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> slowhand-request at planet-torque.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> slowhand-owner at planet-torque.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Slowhand digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. CD-R Rule Of Thumb (DeltaNick)
>    2. Ethical questions... (Garret74 at aol.com)
>    3. What does he make ?? (Cobhome at aol.com)
>    4. Re: Labels (Almighty Geetarz)
>    5. Re: Da Boss Man Pt. 1 (Almighty Geetarz)
>    6. Re: Da Boss Man Pt. 2 (Almighty Geetarz)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 14:57:54 -0400
> From: "DeltaNick" <deltanick at comcast.net>
> Subject: [Slowhand] CD-R Rule Of Thumb
> To: "Slowhand Digest" <slowhand at planet-torque.com>
> Message-ID: <002001c48879$ee99e560$78263744 at elictc01.md.comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-user-defined"
>
> >> Thank you to people like Richard and Leo and DeltaNick and Mark who
have
> been so forthcoming with their advice to me. <<
>
> Let me just state 2 or 3 SIMPLE things here. On the subject of CD burning,
I
> am NOT an expert. I am simply an amateur.
>
> However, I've picked up tips here and there, and read the SD over the
years
> and learned more. There are really just a few simple rules. In fact, I
> understand where Almighty Bruce is coming from, but his commandments
> constitute a list that's too long to remember.
>
> Here's my one simple rule: take care to do your very best. Do not be
sloppy.
>
> If I do this, I will trade good discs with others, and hopefully receive
> good ones in return. I try to take care all the way around, which includes
> the CD-R, the artwork, and the CD label (I know there are some who prefer
no
> label, such as Bruce).
>
> BTW, for disc labels, I use ONLY Neato, which is made by Fellowes. Turns
out
> they have, according to tests I saw a few years back, the best adhesive.
> Now, Bruce may not like this and chime in, but I've never had a problem.
>
>                 DeltaNick
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:20:41 EDT
> From: Garret74 at aol.com
> Subject: [Slowhand] Ethical questions...
> To: slowhand at planet-torque.com
> Message-ID: <1cf.29525df5.2e5a4c09 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi all...
>
> I generally do not respond or collect 'bootlegged' CD's because I have
> ethical questions about the practice.
>
> I know people have said before Eric is fine with it, but I don't know.
> Certainly, it doesn't stop me from buying everything his company
officially
> releases.
>
> I have received bootlegs from friends before, but I don't really get into
the
> burn and pass on things that go on here...
> although I have no trouble with what you guys are doing, and the
discussion
> on methods is fine with me. At least you really seem to care about
maintaining
> the quality of the 'genetic' pool...
>
> But I'm just curious about the ethical (moral???) ramifications of this
> practice...
>
> Oh, and does anyone have the May 10 Albert Hall show...board
condition...???
>
> LOL...
>
> Garret
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/slowhand/attachments/20040822/77c99854/att
achment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:37:14 EDT
> From: Cobhome at aol.com
> Subject: [Slowhand] What does he make ??
> To: slowhand at planet-torque.com
> Message-ID: <1de.282ed912.2e5a4fea at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I going justify paying  for that new Enzo to the wife?
>
> Do you REALLY think he has to justify spending his money - most of it
earned
> long before the Mrs. arrived on the scene ?   LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/slowhand/attachments/20040822/cf62f564/att
achment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 14:35:32 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Almighty Geetarz <almighty_geetarz at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Slowhand] Re: Labels
> To: slowhand at planet-torque.com
> Message-ID: <20040822213532.30365.qmail at web61206.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> >> BTW, for disc labels, I use ONLY Neato, which is made by Fellowes.
Turns out
> >> they have, according to tests I saw a few years back, the best
adhesive.
> >> Now, Bruce may not like this and chime in, but I've never had a
problem.
>
> A paper label slightly detached in the heat inside my $1000 laserdisc
player, and
> upon ejecting stuck, jammed the gears and friend and killed the mechanism.
>
> No heresay, not something I "read on the net" ... experience.
>
> Use paper labels at your own risk!
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/slowhand/attachments/20040822/0b7e2c53/att
achment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 14:53:57 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Almighty Geetarz <almighty_geetarz at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Slowhand] Re: Da Boss Man Pt. 1
> To: slowhand at planet-torque.com
> Message-ID: <20040822215357.40024.qmail at web61205.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> >> Sorry for the non-EC content here. I have two issues regarding making
proper discs >> suitable for trading. The first issue is with "On the Fly"
disc copying. This is the
> >> method I have ALWAYS used to make a disc copy, and I had no idea that I
was
> >> breaking a commandment.
> >>
> >> *snip*
> >>
> >> - Also, I have only one CD burner/drive (Samsung) and, therefore, the
master's data is >> copied to my hard drive first in a temp directory; then,
I have to load blanks.
>
> Hey Mel,
>
> This is one of those times when I think we're on the same page but using
different terms.
>
> As *I* use it (correct me if others use it differently), "on the fly"
copying is where you use
> one (source) drive and another to burn (destination) at the same time.
The problem with
> this - as Luke has pointed out - especially a few years back with older
PCs, was that if
> the reader hits any scratches, dirt, hair, dust, anything, and wants to go
back and re-
> read a sector, this can cause a hiccup or gap on the copy being burned.
With newer
> readers that are faster than writers, and bigger buffers, you're usually
okay -  most of
> the time.
>
> Bear with me, this is as simple as I can make it:
>
> Picture it this way ... you're a passenger in a car on the highway,
passing a miles long
> picket fence, with some pickets painted black and some white - think of
those as the
> "ones" and "zeroes" of the digital CD data.  Your job is to copy down the
sequence as
> the car speeds along.  You can only write so fast, and as the car speeds
faster and
> faster, there is a point where you can keep up - but barely.  Then, if
your attention
> falters, or let's say your view is momentarily blocked by a passing
truck - it's too late
> because the car you're in can't slow down or stop, so there will be a gap
in your record.
>
> People get all touchy because of the insistence on certain software like
EAC - it's due
> in most cases to the fact that people don't *understand* the basic format
of CD-Audio.
> I'll "keep it simple" as Cheryl always insists ... CD-Audio a.k.a.
"redbook audio" is a
> TOTALLY bizarre thing and is unlike the format of ANY other digital medium
you will
> use - not your CD-ROM (data), VideoCD, SuperVideoCD, DVD, DVD-A, Hard
Drive,
> Modem, Cable Modem, Floppy Disk, heck even your cell phone uses certain
types of
> robust error checking and correction to ensure that the data that goes
back and forth
> is what was intended.
>
> In short form ... this is because of certain mathmatical caluclations that
are made.
> When your computer sends or receives a packet of information to receive
this email,
> each block of data will have a mathmatical equation performed which will
result in a
> "checksum". This is compared at the receiving end and if it doesn't come
out properly,
> then you know the data was corrupted en route and the packet can be resent
and/or
> depending on the error correction routines, it can even be repaired to
some degree.
>
> It doesn't work the same way with CD-Audio. When CDs were invented, the
engineers
> never in their wildest dreams thought of this kind of problem, they
designed the error
> correction routines to allow for the problems that would likely be
encountered with
> pressed CDs.  Here's one example - if you look at the data capacities for
an audio
> CD versus those for a data mode CD-ROM, you will see that the CD-ROM has
less
> room for you to use - the "missing" room is in the form of the far more
robust error
> correction and checksum routines present on CD-ROMs, since losing even a
single
> bit of data on for instance a program or file can prevent it from working
altogether.
> Whereas a CD has 44,100 samples PER SECOND and the error correction in the
> player can compensate for some missing samples.
>
> This is ALSO why the "it sounds fine to me" test is no proof that the copy
is identical
> to the original - it's possible that the copy you made has a percentage of
bad data,
> but when you play back the copy the CD player is "fixing" the errors. This
is great -
> unless THAT disc gets copied, and then THAT disc gets copied, etc.  The
problem
> snowballs on later generations. Here's one literal example: with my older
PC/soft,
> I could make a copy of the same silver (pressed) CD with both
Adaptec/Roxio and
> with EAC.  Both of them played perfectly on my home CD player.  Now my car
> player is a little older and has a harder time "seeing" CD-R discs since
they're less
> reflective.  The disc copied with EAC mounts up instantly and plays
perfectly. The
> Roxio copy would grind and spit a while, and either not play, or would
play jerkily
> because the car player had a harder time correcting for the errors.
>
> As Luke mentioned, you don't have to do those old unscientific tests these
days,
> since you can directly compare the copy with the source with some
programs. And
> also as he mentioned, much of the time about *any* program will work fine
to copy
> *but* unless you use a program like EAC that rechecks the data, you will
need to
> compare the original with the copy to make sure.  The problem is that if
you don't
> use EAC, and don't compare ... then you *don't* know and can't, if the
copy is the
> same.
>
> *snip*
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/slowhand/attachments/20040822/ea13772b/att
achment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 14:59:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Almighty Geetarz <almighty_geetarz at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Slowhand] Re: Da Boss Man Pt. 2
> To: slowhand at planet-torque.com
> Message-ID: <20040822215953.21808.qmail at web61203.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> >> At Mark's suggestion, I use Klone (gold) 700MB pro archival grade discs
for my
> >> masters. They are about $1 each. I use MAM-A (650mb) and TDK (700mb)
for
> >> trading. According to Mark, much of the relevence of the media has  to
do with the
> >> degradation of the media over time, and he feels that Klone provides a
better layer of >> protection on the business side of their disc.
>
> There are a number of factors here. First, the nature of the dye used -
there are a
> number of different dyes used depending on manufacturer.  Each has a
different
> longevity. For instance the bright emerald green dye used on the earliest
Fujis is
> legendary for "disappearing" information ... I have a number of those here
where the
> data simply went away.  Luckily I backed them up. Second is the reflective
layer
> used. Gold doesn't oxydize. The manufacturers add compounds to the
so-called
> "silver" layers to help prevent this, but even more important is the third
thing - the
> clear protective coat.  Even if it looks fine to the naked eye, discs can
hold many
> microscopic pores that will allow air to reach (and destroy) the dye or
reflective
> layers. Ask ANY of us who had huge laserdisc collections and watched many
of
> our collection succumb to "laser rot" because the discs were not sealed
properly.
> Fourth is the thickness of this protective coat - cheaper brands are much
thinner,
> which is usually fine unless you have an accident, and as a friend of mine
is fond
> of noting, they don't call them "on purposes".  Kodak/Mitsui/Klone all use
a thicker
> protective layer. Last but not least, there's also the quality of the dye
layer, which
> can contain dropouts etc. usually referred to as BLER or "Block Error
Rate" which
> isn't a huge deal with the robust error correction on CD-ROM but with
Audio CDs
> unless you compare back the burned copy ... you don't know it's all there.
Some
> people seem to get real worked up about this subject (you should see my
inbox, I
> need asbestos undies), and I just don't get it - I'm not recommending $5
discs,
> I think I just bought good Japan made T/Y (see John I ain't gonna try
spelling it) for
> around .25 each and gold/golds for less than a buck with shipping.
>
> When I got my DVD burner and was paying $15 each for blanks, I took a
chance on
> a new cheaper brand that were only $7 each .... after I then ended up
having to
> reburn every copy my friends could not play because these cheap blanks
didn't like
> most DVD players, and spent postage, insurance, packing, time etc. ...
those $15
> blanks were actually a pretty good bargain after all.
>
> >> Also, there should be some explanation - we have thrown out many
acronyms and
> >> terms (DAO, TAO, On the Fly) that are not familiar to everyone.
>
> Excellent suggestion, I hadn't thought of a glossary!
>
> And your comment about experience hits home ... folks, every bit of advice
I've
> given out is from EXPERIENCE, plain and simple.  I've had more than a few
normally
> levelheaded friends get totally bent out of shape because I've criticized
the software
> they use - my opinions of it come from experience, not heresay. My
opinions on brands
> and quality of blanks come from experience, not from rumor.  I'm fairly
well versed
> in the scientific method and am pretty good at seperating opinion from
fact.
>
> I sincerely wish there was a simple one-button-click program out there I
could just
> say "download this and you won't ever have to worry again" but
unfortunately - that's
> just not the way it is.  Then again - let's face it, simply operating your
computer isn't
> really all that simple - take someone who has never used one and try to
teach them
> and you all of a sudden realize how much you DO know even though you don't
think
> you do. Heck - I can't use freakin' PHOTOSHOP. I *hate* that program.  Why
isn't it
> simple? Easy - it's as simple as it CAN be. Same with EAC, etc.
>
> We have ALL been there before.  The first time I tried to configure EAC I
gave up and
> did something else.  But I came back - because it's what I needed to
learn.
>
> Later!
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/slowhand/attachments/20040822/729e44e1/att
achment.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Slowhand mailing list
> Slowhand at planet-torque.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/slowhand
>
>
> End of Slowhand Digest, Vol 3, Issue 477
> ****************************************