From dkorn at printable.com Fri Sep 26 18:28:23 2008 From: dkorn at printable.com (Dan Korn) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 17:28:23 -0500 Subject: [WASTE-list] Soft return? Message-ID: <1EBD8FF1-F9DB-4974-988C-85B4A9FCAB32@printable.com> Is there any way to get a "soft return" (a simple line break without any first-line indentation, space between paragraphs, etc.) in WASTE, similar to what you get if you type Shift+Enter into a Rich Edit control on Windows or into MS Word? Thanks, Dan From blgl at scoop.se Sat Sep 27 10:43:50 2008 From: blgl at scoop.se (Bo Lindbergh) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 16:43:50 +0200 Subject: [WASTE-list] Soft return? In-Reply-To: <1EBD8FF1-F9DB-4974-988C-85B4A9FCAB32@printable.com> References: <1EBD8FF1-F9DB-4974-988C-85B4A9FCAB32@printable.com> Message-ID: 27 sep 2008 kl. 00.28 skrev Dan Korn: > Is there any way to get a "soft return" (a simple line break > without any first-line indentation, space between paragraphs, etc.) > in WASTE, similar to what you get if you type Shift+Enter into a > Rich Edit control on Windows or into MS Word? U+2028, line separator. I could argue that U+000A should have the same effect, but since we have a source license I won't. /Bo Lindbergh From dkorn at printable.com Mon Sep 29 11:59:42 2008 From: dkorn at printable.com (Dan Korn) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:59:42 -0500 Subject: [WASTE-list] Soft return? In-Reply-To: References: <1EBD8FF1-F9DB-4974-988C-85B4A9FCAB32@printable.com> Message-ID: On Sep 27, 2008, at 9:43 AM, Bo Lindbergh wrote: > 27 sep 2008 kl. 00.28 skrev Dan Korn: >> Is there any way to get a "soft return" (a simple line break >> without any first-line indentation, space between paragraphs, etc.) >> in WASTE, similar to what you get if you type Shift+Enter into a >> Rich Edit control on Windows or into MS Word? > > U+2028, line separator. Thanks Bo. That's exactly what I was looking for! > I could argue that U+000A should have > the same effect, but since we have a source license I won't. I do have the WASTE source code and there doesn't seem to be any mention of U+2028, 0x2028, or decimal 8232, but that character does seem to work as a simple line break without invoking any first-line indents or space between paragraphs. (FWIW the Rich Edit control on Windows uses ASCII 11 (0xB), "vertical tab", to accomplish this.) I don't think I agree that ASCII 10 (0xA) should be treated as a "soft return" as it's a standard "regular" end-of-line character on Unix, and those are generally interpreted as paragraph break markers. I mean, when the user hits Return, they're generally expecting to start a new paragraph, no? The "soft return" would seem to be the more special case. Unicode does attempt to topple or at least work around this line-ending Tower of Babel with more explicitly-purposed characters, but the ASCII line-ending mess has been built up very solidly over the years. A follow up: Do you know if there's a standard way to input the Unicode Line Separator character from the keyboard on Mac? I can have my app accept Shift+Return like on Windows, but I'd like to follow the Mac convention if there is one. Thanks again, Dan From blgl at scoop.se Mon Sep 29 19:02:28 2008 From: blgl at scoop.se (Bo Lindbergh) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:02:28 +0200 Subject: [WASTE-list] Soft return? In-Reply-To: References: <1EBD8FF1-F9DB-4974-988C-85B4A9FCAB32@printable.com> Message-ID: 29 sep 2008 kl. 17.59 skrev Dan Korn: > I do have the WASTE source code and there doesn't seem to be any > mention of U+2028, 0x2028, or decimal 8232, but that character does > seem to work as a simple line break without invoking any first-line > indents or space between paragraphs. It's handled inside Apple's code. Look up ATSUBreakLine for the details. > Do you know if there's a standard way to input the Unicode Line > Separator character from the keyboard on Mac? I can have my app > accept Shift+Return like on Windows, but I'd like to follow the Mac > convention if there is one. InDesign and QuarkXPress both use shift-return. InDesign also generates a U+000A for that line break when exporting Unicode text. /Bo Lindbergh