[Woodcarver] Geometry question for the group

Mon Oct 4 21:31:23 EDT 2004

Thank you for this wonderful explanation!

-----Original Message-----
From: woodcarver-bounces at six.pairlist.net
[mailto:woodcarver-bounces at six.pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Classic Carving
Patterns
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 5:45 PM
To: '[Woodcarver]'
Subject: RE: [Woodcarver] Geometry question for the group

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Hi Sylda!

Lettering in an arc can be done is several graphics and word programs
... But I don't use them.  I should note that I learned my lettering for
many years of sign crafting and truck lettering long before there were
home PC's.  Now that dates me doesn't it.  The reason I don't use them,
is because they distort the letters to create the arc effect.  So I use
a very old fashioned, long method for doing arced lettering or any other
lettering shapes.

First I will pull the circle using a compass if it's a large circle as
on a 4' x 8' sign blank.  For wood plates I simply put the plate upside
down on a sheet of tracing paper and run a pencil along the rim to
create my circle.

Next, I begin folding the tracing paper so that the sides of the circle
line up and run a crease along the circle's center.  That's my first
diameter line. Fold again so that the diameter line is folded in half,
crease, and I have my 90 degree diameter line ... The circle has been
cut into four sections. Match two adjacent 90 degree radius lines and
crease. I continue to fold and crease until each quadrant has been
sectioned into either four or eight radius lines.  Those radius lines
are my guidelines for the slant of the letters!  So a L will follow the
slant of the closest radius line I created with the folds.

Use your compass find your center point which was established from all
of the folding and pulling in your guidelines.  You will want a margin
guideline along the rim and a guideline on which the letters will rest.
So a 12" diameter plate may have a 3/8" rim margin guideline and a
second guideline
1 3/8" from the rim for 1" high letters.

Now I go to my graphics program, type in my text, choose my font and
font size, and print off several copies of just regular text.

I use a very simple cut and tape technique for placing the wording onto
the tracing paper.  I cut out each individual letter and tape it in
place with just a little tape along the top.   I can adjust the spacing
as I work and I can adjust the distance between words as I work and I
can use the folded radius lines to keep the lettering curving nicely.

I do it this way for several reasons.  When you have your tracing paper
well folded you will see that each section where a letter is to be
placed is the top section of a pie shaped wedge.  The top area of the
lettering section is wider that the bottom section at the guideline.
Graphics programs and word programs distort letters in this pie shaped
way.  The top of the letters are pull out further than the bottom
sections ... They become distorted especially on larger circles.  By
using regular text and taping it into place I avoid any distortion.

In any lettering layout you have to deal with both spacing between
letters, spacing between words, and spacing between phrases.  Some
letters are considered as 1 unit or space letters - a,b,c,d.  Some are
half space letters - t,j,f.  Some are quarter space letters - I,l, 1.
And some are 1 1/2 space letters - m, w.  Crazy making stuff unless you
are really into graphic arts!  All this means is that the written lower
case L takes up less room than an upper case M.  You can depend on the
graphics program to do your spacing but again you have the problem of
the distortion from the arch.  I believe that you will find that when
you cut and tape the letters into place you can do so very easily by eye
without a lot of space measurements! You will know when the word looks
right or if it needs a little more fudging.

Once the words are taped into place I can cut out those words as one
unit and move them around the plate rim to adjust for spacing between
other words or phrases.

By this time I usually have a piece of tracing paper that has all sorts
of cut and tape letters and even cut and tape words over it.  So, slap a
new sheet of tracing paper on top of your 'rough' design, tape these two
sheets together, go to your storm door on a sunny day and tape the two
sheets to the storm door window.  The sunlight will come through both
sheets wonderfully and it will be easy for you to trace a final clean
copy of your pattern for tracing to your plate.

I know this is a lot of fussing over lettering but if I am adding words
to any patterns I am doing so because they are important to the design
... Therefore worth my time to do it the best way I know how.

Hope this helps!

Susan

Carving Patterns Online
Designs Online Since 1997!
Classic Carving Patterns By L.S.Irish
http://www.CarvingPatterns.com
http://www.WoodCarvingPatterns.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Sylda <sylda at kansas.net>
Sent: Jan 15, 1970 2:58 PM
To: Woodcarvers List <woodcarver at six.pairlist.net>
Subject: Re: [Woodcarver] Geometry question for the group

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Susan,
You made this simple enough for even ME to understand.  I just deleted
most
of the other as they were way over my head, but I can figure this one
out.

Now I have another question -- I do anniversary & birth plates using
bass
wood or butternut plates that I get from John Krantz or Montzka
Woodworking.
My problem is this -- The plates have a 2/3 inch rim which I put the
name
and date on.  My problem is:  getting the writing centered/spaced
accurately
around this rim.  I would like to have software that would do this for
me.
I have been doing this by impressing the plate rim on paper and free
handing
the writing until It looks right.  I've done it enough that it only
takes a
time or two, but would like it to be able to be in fonts and not my hand
writing.  Any suggestions?

Sylda

On 9/30/04 7:33 AM, "Classic Carving Patterns"
<irish at carvingpatterns.com>
wrote:

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Classic Carving Patterns [mailto:irish at carvingpatterns.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 9:05 AM
> To: '[Woodcarver]'
> Subject: RE: [Woodcarver] Geometry question for the group
>
>
> It's been a very long time since I have had to do any geometry
equations
> ... But as I remember a prime number is defined as being evenly
> divisible only by 1 and by itself; 13 divided by 1 = 13 and 13 divided
> by 13 = 1. So what I would do is first create a circle that has a 13"
> circumference.  Therefore you have a point every one inch along the
> outer circumference line and you have a center point to create the
> radius lines.  Those lines will be true then for any sized circle that
> you need, you only need to extend them to the new outer edge of the
> larger circle.
>
> Susan
>
> Carving Patterns Online
> Designs Online Since 1997!
> Classic Carving Patterns By L.S.Irish
> http://www.CarvingPatterns.com
> http://www.WoodCarvingPatterns.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: woodcarver-bounces at six.pairlist.net
> [mailto:woodcarver-bounces at six.pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Victor
> Hamburger
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:53 AM
> To: [Woodcarver]
> Subject: Re: [Woodcarver] Geometry question for the group
>
>
> To make a DONATION to the Mailing List using PayPal OR regular mail,
> click this link: http://wwwoodcarver.com/WWWList/WWWList.html
>
> Tom Clarke wrote:
>>
>> Are just some of what's out there. Using the formula's given a side
>> length or taking an exterior circle one could then draw the polygon
> for any sided.
>> Problem with one with 13 sides is the angle isn't a whole number.
> Probably give you
>> fits.
>
> Tom, and Ivan,
>
> Thanks for the comments, I had found the DrMath site but didn't try
the
> math.
> 13 is a prime number, indivisible except by 1, causing some of the
> problem.
> What I want to understand is how, using only a compass and
straightedge,
> do you
> lay out the 13 point star.  I have various solutions for 4,5,6,8 and
12
> point
> stars.  I can bisect any of those sides to create a star with twice
> those
> points, but 13, being prime, has got to be done by itself.
>
> The builders 800+ yrs ago knew how to do it with a compass and
> straightedge, and
> I would like to duplicate that.  As I said, I can lay it out with a
CAd
> program
> no problem, I just like the challenge of doing it with the simple
tools
> of the
> master craftsman of earlier times.  The pyramids and Greek Temples and
> Roman
> empire were built with these tools, I am curious to try a more complex
> figure
> for myself.
>
> Thanks,  Vic H
>
>
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