[game_preservation] A Life Well Wasted

[Andrew Armstrong]

Let's Play's are certainly (usually) not "super plays" (many record the 
multiple attempts through a section, deaths and all) although super 
plays are a good form of seeing the pure essence of a game.

Need more pure game footage though.

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:

> The interesting thing about game footage is currently most of what we 

> have is 'super play' footage; that is, players who try to beat the 

> game as quickly or efficiently as possible. That's not the same as 

> actual play, in which death and defeat is suffered and mistakes made. 

> It doesn't allow for elements such as exploration. 'How-to' videos 

> don't give that sense of exploration either, though they can be 

> informative. So essentially, the video database would be lacking if 

> all we had were superplays.

>

> -Devin

>

> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Andrew Armstrong 

> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:

>

>     I'd like to agree with Henry here on all counts. Videos are not

>     equivalent (nothing is except for a time machine), but I think

>     historians will prefer that to any re-enactments - as stated,

>     while Civil War guys might march around with full kit, but

>     historians would kill to have a video of the lives of those

>     soldiers (or anyone else at that time in history!).

>

>     If we start saying it's "Not good enough" in any way we just need

>     to go back 100 years and see how little was filmed, and think how

>     much we miss in history because of it (and how much actual film,

>     audio and other culture has been lost permanently). It's easy to

>     wave a hand if it's all you know, but certainly I'd welcome much

>     much more to the IA's collections. I hope Henry got some good

>     stuff of Tabular Rasa closing for instance! Once in a games

>     lifetime experience that, not something that can ever be remade.

>

>     On singleplayer: Let's Play's are awesome ;) Need to check and see

>     if any are being made of MMO's, there are a odd few around - gets

>     the experience with commentary, which is ace :) - footage is good,

>     footage with commentary (optional is best) is even better, which I

>     intend to try at some point.

>

>     Reminded me to listen to these - I've added them to my MP3 player

>     now, I don't know why I forgot before.

>

>     Andrew

>

>

>     Henry Lowood wrote:

>>     Hi Stuart,

>>

>>     Well, I guess we disagree a little on the value of gameplay

>>     documentation (which is not just video).   My point was that

>>     documenting a complex multi-player or massively multi-player

>>     world is as much about documenting events that happen in those

>>     spaces as it is about preserving software.  I don't think that's

>>     marginal at all.

>>

>>     If the focus is on "experiences," then I agree with you. That

>>     sort of preservation is closer to re-enactment than history,

>>     however.  Ok, yes, it is possible that groups will get together

>>     to play Everquest in 100 years, just like they camp out in Civil

>>     War replica uniforms and fire muskets in line.  But that

>>     experience is NOT the experience of what happens in virtual

>>     worlds today, i.e., it is not going to be history.  It is still

>>     going to take place 100 years from now, no matter how you cut

>>     it.  For similar reasons, I disagree strongly that playing with

>>     bots is going to be informative, at least in terms of historical

>>     work.

>>

>>     In Preserving Virtual Worlds, our goal is to do both -- software

>>     preservation and "event" preservation (for want of a better

>>     term).   My emphasis on documentation of player behavior is more

>>     of a corrective to the idea that it's all about software

>>     preservation than it is an attempt to say we should only do video

>>     capture and gather documentation.  But if you put a gun to my

>>     head and say pick one or the other, software or documentation,

>>     you can't have both, as a historian I would go for documentation.

>>

>>     Last, video capture of single-player games is absolutely useful;

>>     I certainly agree with that statement. 

>>

>>     Henry

>>

>>     Stuart Feldhamer wrote:

>>>

>>>     I just listened to both episodes. I thought they were very well

>>>     done, although I think they would both have been improved by

>>>     video – especially the one on collectors. You can’t begin to

>>>     understand collectors until you actually SEE some of their

>>>     collections.

>>>

>>>      

>>>

>>>     Henry, you made a comment in the podcast that a single player

>>>     game can be booted up in 100 years and enjoyed, but a

>>>     multi-player game can’t be, because it requires other people to

>>>     play, and the guy won’t be able to find other people to play it

>>>     with him. Regardless if that is true or not, it’s impossible to

>>>     preserve the actual experience of playing the game by taking

>>>     video and screenshots. The only way the guy in 100 years is

>>>     going to be able to have the experience of playing the game is

>>>     if he manages to get a whole bunch of other people to play with

>>>     him, or if we can design suitably convincing bots to take the

>>>     place of the other players.

>>>

>>>      

>>>

>>>     I agree that gameplay videos have value, but the same applies to

>>>     gameplay videos of single player games. What is specifically

>>>     added to the mix by preserving gameplay videos from multi-player

>>>     games? It sounded from the podcast as if this was some kind of

>>>     solution to the problem of preserving multi-player games in

>>>     general. I think it’s useful, but it only adds marginally to the

>>>     preservation of the game experience.

>>>

>>>      

>>>

>>>     Stuart

>>>

>>>      

>>>

>>>      

>>>

>>>     *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org

>>>     <mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org>

>>>     [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Henry

>>>     Lowood

>>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:11 PM

>>>     *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG

>>>     *Subject:* [game_preservation] A Life Well Wasted

>>>

>>>      

>>>

>>>     Some of you may be interested in the far-flung corners of the

>>>     world that the Preserving Virtual Worlds project has reached. 

>>>     Others I know are intensely interested in the world of game

>>>     collectors.  In either case, check out Robert Ashley's new

>>>     podcast, A Life Well Wasted:

>>>     http://alifewellwasted.com/feed/atom/

>>>     The second episode covers the world of game collectors, which I

>>>     have to say is not so different in some ways from book

>>>     collectors (said from a library perspective). The last quarter

>>>     or so is about our project. Robert Ashley, the man behind ALWW,

>>>     has said on forums he might release the interview with me in its

>>>     entirety.  He is a bright guy and a great interviewer -- makes

>>>     you wonder about all the talent shaking loose from 1Up.

>>>     Oh, the first podcast is also interesting, covering the history

>>>     and demise of EGM.

>>>     Henry

>>>

>>>     -- 

>>>

>>>     Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

>>>

>>>     Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>>>

>>>      Film & Media Collections

>>>

>>>     HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

>>>

>>>     Stanford University Libraries

>>>

>>>     Stanford CA 94305-6004

>>>

>>>     650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>;

>>>     http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>>>

>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>

>>>     _______________________________________________

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>>>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>

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>>>       

>>

>>     -- 

>>     Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

>>     Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>>      Film & Media Collections

>>     HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

>>     Stanford University Libraries

>>     Stanford CA 94305-6004

>>     650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>;

>>     http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

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>>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>

>>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>       

>

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>

>

> -- 

> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

>

> "Until next time..."

> Captain Commando

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