[game_preservation] A Life Well Wasted

[Andrew Armstrong]

Cool! I heard "good things" from Idle Thumbs, after Chris Remo stopped 
dicking around saying he was a new player ;)

Thought it'd be interesting to see, if I wasn't busy that weekend I'd 
have gone in myself and got a bit of stuff.

Andrew

Henry Lowood wrote:

> Andrew,

>

> A propos Tabula Rasa, we are in touch with the guys who documented the 

> last moments and have permission to add their video to the collection. 

> So yes, we got it.

>

> Henry

>

> Andrew Armstrong wrote:

>> I'd like to agree with Henry here on all counts. Videos are not 

>> equivalent (nothing is except for a time machine), but I think 

>> historians will prefer that to any re-enactments - as stated, while 

>> Civil War guys might march around with full kit, but historians would 

>> kill to have a video of the lives of those soldiers (or anyone else 

>> at that time in history!).

>>

>> If we start saying it's "Not good enough" in any way we just need to 

>> go back 100 years and see how little was filmed, and think how much 

>> we miss in history because of it (and how much actual film, audio and 

>> other culture has been lost permanently). It's easy to wave a hand if 

>> it's all you know, but certainly I'd welcome much much more to the 

>> IA's collections. I hope Henry got some good stuff of Tabular Rasa 

>> closing for instance! Once in a games lifetime experience that, not 

>> something that can ever be remade.

>>

>> On singleplayer: Let's Play's are awesome ;) Need to check and see if 

>> any are being made of MMO's, there are a odd few around - gets the 

>> experience with commentary, which is ace :) - footage is good, 

>> footage with commentary (optional is best) is even better, which I 

>> intend to try at some point.

>>

>> Reminded me to listen to these - I've added them to my MP3 player 

>> now, I don't know why I forgot before.

>>

>> Andrew

>>

>> Henry Lowood wrote:

>>> Hi Stuart,

>>>

>>> Well, I guess we disagree a little on the value of gameplay 

>>> documentation (which is not just video).   My point was that 

>>> documenting a complex multi-player or massively multi-player world 

>>> is as much about documenting events that happen in those spaces as 

>>> it is about preserving software.  I don't think that's marginal at all.

>>>

>>> If the focus is on "experiences," then I agree with you. That sort 

>>> of preservation is closer to re-enactment than history, however.  

>>> Ok, yes, it is possible that groups will get together to play 

>>> Everquest in 100 years, just like they camp out in Civil War replica 

>>> uniforms and fire muskets in line.  But that experience is NOT the 

>>> experience of what happens in virtual worlds today, i.e., it is not 

>>> going to be history.  It is still going to take place 100 years from 

>>> now, no matter how you cut it.  For similar reasons, I disagree 

>>> strongly that playing with bots is going to be informative, at least 

>>> in terms of historical work.

>>>

>>> In Preserving Virtual Worlds, our goal is to do both -- software 

>>> preservation and "event" preservation (for want of a better term).   

>>> My emphasis on documentation of player behavior is more of a 

>>> corrective to the idea that it's all about software preservation 

>>> than it is an attempt to say we should only do video capture and 

>>> gather documentation.  But if you put a gun to my head and say pick 

>>> one or the other, software or documentation, you can't have both, as 

>>> a historian I would go for documentation.

>>>

>>> Last, video capture of single-player games is absolutely useful; I 

>>> certainly agree with that statement. 

>>>

>>> Henry

>>>

>>> Stuart Feldhamer wrote:

>>>>

>>>> I just listened to both episodes. I thought they were very well 

>>>> done, although I think they would both have been improved by video 

>>>> -- especially the one on collectors. You can't begin to understand 

>>>> collectors until you actually SEE some of their collections.

>>>>

>>>>  

>>>>

>>>> Henry, you made a comment in the podcast that a single player game 

>>>> can be booted up in 100 years and enjoyed, but a multi-player game 

>>>> can't be, because it requires other people to play, and the guy 

>>>> won't be able to find other people to play it with him. Regardless 

>>>> if that is true or not, it's impossible to preserve the actual 

>>>> experience of playing the game by taking video and screenshots. The 

>>>> only way the guy in 100 years is going to be able to have the 

>>>> experience of playing the game is if he manages to get a whole 

>>>> bunch of other people to play with him, or if we can design 

>>>> suitably convincing bots to take the place of the other players.

>>>>

>>>>  

>>>>

>>>> I agree that gameplay videos have value, but the same applies to 

>>>> gameplay videos of single player games. What is specifically added 

>>>> to the mix by preserving gameplay videos from multi-player games? 

>>>> It sounded from the podcast as if this was some kind of solution to 

>>>> the problem of preserving multi-player games in general. I think 

>>>> it's useful, but it only adds marginally to the preservation of the 

>>>> game experience.

>>>>

>>>>  

>>>>

>>>> Stuart

>>>>

>>>>  

>>>>

>>>>  

>>>>

>>>> *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org 

>>>> [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Henry Lowood

>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:11 PM

>>>> *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG

>>>> *Subject:* [game_preservation] A Life Well Wasted

>>>>

>>>>  

>>>>

>>>> Some of you may be interested in the far-flung corners of the world 

>>>> that the Preserving Virtual Worlds project has reached.  Others I 

>>>> know are intensely interested in the world of game collectors.  In 

>>>> either case, check out Robert Ashley's new podcast, A Life Well Wasted:

>>>> http://alifewellwasted.com/feed/atom/

>>>> The second episode covers the world of game collectors, which I 

>>>> have to say is not so different in some ways from book collectors 

>>>> (said from a library perspective). The last quarter or so is about 

>>>> our project. Robert Ashley, the man behind ALWW, has said on forums 

>>>> he might release the interview with me in its entirety.  He is a 

>>>> bright guy and a great interviewer -- makes you wonder about all 

>>>> the talent shaking loose from 1Up.

>>>> Oh, the first podcast is also interesting, covering the history and 

>>>> demise of EGM.

>>>> Henry

>>>>

>>>> -- 

>>>>

>>>> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

>>>>

>>>> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>>>>

>>>>  Film & Media Collections

>>>>

>>>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

>>>>

>>>> Stanford University Libraries

>>>>

>>>> Stanford CA 94305-6004

>>>>

>>>> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>; 

>>>> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>>>>

>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>

>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>> game_preservation mailing list

>>>> game_preservation at igda.org

>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>>>   

>>>

>>> -- 

>>> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

>>> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>>>  Film & Media Collections

>>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

>>> Stanford University Libraries

>>> Stanford CA 94305-6004

>>> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood 

>>> <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> game_preservation mailing list

>>> game_preservation at igda.org

>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>>   

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> game_preservation mailing list

>> game_preservation at igda.org

>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>>   

>

> -- 

> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.

> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;

>  Film & Media Collections

> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall

> Stanford University Libraries

> Stanford CA 94305-6004

> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood 

> <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> _______________________________________________

> game_preservation mailing list

> game_preservation at igda.org

> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

>   

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/attachments/20090310/4602e588/attachment.htm>