[LEAPSECS] princes

[Brian Garrett]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "M. Warner Losh" <imp at bsdimp.com>
To: <leapsecs at leapsecond.com>; <clive at demon.net>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [LEAPSECS] princes



> In message: <20081103082834.GM81158 at finch-staff-1.thus.net>

>            "Clive D.W. Feather" <clive at demon.net> writes:

> : Tony Finch said:

> : > As well as the

> : > egregious example of the pre-Julian Roman calendar, I'm amused and

> : > disgusted by the anti-Jewish fiddles in the rules for determining 

> Easter

> : > to minimise when it coincides with Passover.

> :

> : Actually it was a pro-Jewish fiddle: by keeping the two dates apart it

> : minimized the risk of religious riots and/or pogroms.

>

I doubt that riots or pogroms were much of an issue. The Christians were at 
that time neither numerous enough, nor powerful enough, to be in a position 
to pick on the Jews, over religion or anything else.  Nor were the Jews 
interested in picking on the Christians; after all, they did worship the 
same God (the question of His parentage of a certain carpenter 
notwithstanding).  As for the Romans, the fall of Masada pretty much ended 
the Jews' ability to stage any organized revolt, so for Rome it was a 
non-issue.

By the fourth century C.E. there was actually a sizable number of Christians 
who were perfectly content with an Easter celebration focused around the 
fourteenth of Nisan, which would have been the anniversary of you-know-what 
according to the Jewish calendar.  This group were called the 
Quartodecimans, for obvius reasons.  The group that eventualy won out in the 
early church coucils were more concerned with making sure Christianity was a 
distinct religion and not a Jewish sect, which is when Easter went from 
being Nisan 14 to the first Sunday after Nisan 14.


> I was told in school a long time ago this was the same reason that

> Christmas happened do late: It too was designed to not conflict with

> Hanukkah and also the pagan solstice celebrations.  I have no source

> for this information, so take it with a lot more skepticism than most

> things you see here :-)

>

Again, the Romans couldn't have cared less about Hanukkah ("Feast of 
Rededication?  All your temple are belong to us, and we've got the Arch of 
Titus to comemorate the fact.").  It just happens that the Christians, under 
Constantine, co-opted the Roman feast of Saturnalia (December 25) which 
happens by sheer coincidence to overlap the eight-day Hanukkah period in 
SOME years, depending on the last insertion of Adar II (or whatever the 
month is, I'm too lazy to look it up now) in the Jewish calendar.

Brian