wysiwyg and light-markup are oil and water

[mofo syne]

\court is adjourned till next month

Let us know how you go!

On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 2:27 AM, bowerbird via Markdown-Discuss
<markdown-discuss at six.pairlist.net> wrote:
> mofo said:
>>   Yea, but I want to see more of the actual output
>>   rather than the markdown representation.
>>   But I don't want to lose track of what parts of
>>   the output can be seen in the now 'smaller' input
>
> i'm not following you.
>
> but i'm sure it's just a simple matter of terminology.
>
> when the _input_ field is showing any specific paragraph,
> users should be able to summon that spot in the output,
> i.e., automatically scroll (or "sync") to that paragraph.
>
> or, in cases where they prefer to do it the other way,
> when the _output_ field is showing a specific paragraph,
> users should be able to summon that spot in the input,
> i.e., automatically scroll (or "sync") to that paragraph.
>
> i think both of those are very straightforward.
>
> now, as i've said before, doing sync between the fields
> at any other time (or, indeed, on a continuous basis)
> is not as simple a matter as you might suppose at first.
> (per the example i just gave, which way do you sync?)
>
>
>>   I do hope somebody does give
>>   'editable' output view, a shot.
>
> me too. and people are, to be sure.
>
>
>>   Maybe it might not be too stupid an idea in practice.
>
> i never said the wysiwyg markdown idea was "stupid".
>
> what i said is that my research/thinking indicates it is
> _unworkable_, which is a very different thing entirely.
>
> so if someone proves me wrong and makes it workable,
> it _might_ be a great idea. (or, we must say, it might not,
> because it still mashes content in with presentation, but
> i'm not one of those people for whom this is sacrilegious.)
>
> but, until someone makes the idea work, it's all irrelevant.
>
> ***
>
> michael said:
>>   I just added a toggle for source view,
>>   so one can check and edit the source.
>
> that's a good addition.
>
> i was perplexed when i pasted in markdown text
> and it wasn't recognized and formatted correctly.
> that was a serious violation of my expectations...
> and i still don't know if that "should" work, or not.
>
>
>>   Actually I don't think it is the goal that
>>   people learn or type Markdown.
>
> we -- you, me, everyone -- choose our own goals.
>
> live and let live.
>
>
>>   Why should a person who only wants to
>>   write down some content switch to Markdown.
>>   They are used to WYSIWYG editing, and with
>>   Markdown hidden in the back end they get
>>   the Markdown publishing environment for free.
>
> make it work. i wish you luck. i'm rooting for you.
>
>
>>   imagining the output from the input is hard
>>   for many people, have both next to each other
>>   seems the current way to go, but be honest
>>   that is a crutch and not end user ready.
>
> i'm not sure i agree with your bottom line there,
> but it's not worth disputing.   :+)
>
>
>>   What if the output determines the input?
>
> then we will need to switch the terminology we use.
>
> plus your level of complexity will increase significantly.
>
>
>>   One has to formalize and "parse" the user input
>>   and that is hard.
>
> that's not why i say that combining the views is hard.
>
> it's because if you show all of the input characters,
> then you will have compromised the wysiwyg value.
>
> but if you do _not_ show all of the input characters,
> then you will have compromised the ease of editing.
>
> some apps try to escape this dilemma by showing
> the "invisible" input characters in a gray font, but
> -- in my opinion -- that is the worst of both worlds.
>
>
>>   One has to have in mind, that
>>   not all formatting and content
>>   can be resembled in Markdown and
>>   Marko Editor only takes from a paste
>>   what it can handle, so again what you see
>>   after a paste in the editor is what you get
>
> right there you will have violated one of the main
> expectations that people have for a wysiwyg tool.
>
> (and, again, wysiwyg "means" _so_ many things!)
>
> but as the saying goes, i don't want to interrupt
> your success by telling you that it can't be done.
>
> so go do it! prove me wrong!   :+)
>
> -bowerbird
>
> _______________________________________________
> Markdown-Discuss mailing list
> Markdown-Discuss at six.pairlist.net
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss