[N&W] Re: NW Y3 becomes ATSF ?? becomes VGN USE

[nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org]

 >Never did meet a PRR fan who could explain their non-sequential
 >numbering, though.

  The explanation I heard was that Pennsy numbering was sequential, by
*division*. Hence, one divison got #1-200, the next had 201-275, then
276-344, and so on. Pennsy moved away from that system in the 1920s, and
the 4-8-2s and later engines were given distinct number blocks as on
most other roads.

 >I don't believe 2042 ever made it to the Virginian.

  Nope, Santa Fe managed to wreck it, blow it up, break it, or something.
I've never seen a clear answer of just what they did to it.

David Thompson
___________________________________________________________
 >Uh, Harry -
 >
 >Pennsy didn't use the dash in locomotive classes as did N&W. You speak of
 >the K4, G5 and M1a classes. Similarly, their most famous electrics were the
 >GG1, P5, and E44 . . .
 >
 >David P. Morgan rather whimsically suggested that Pennsy kept all its unused
 >steam locomotive numbers in a battered old top hat turned upside down on a
 >table in the mechanical department offices in Philly; when Altoona was going
 >to need a number for a new locomotive someone reached in the hat and pulled
 >out the next one. But they never pulled out any dashes for the
 >classifications . . .
 >
 >EdKing

Ed K

My apologies.  Don't blame Harry Bundy for the hyphens / dashes in the PRR
classes.  I put it in my post of 3/17 without paying attention.  As one
with an interest in, and lots of PRR motive power in multiple scales, I
should know better.  Thanks for the DPM story on engine #s.

Jim Stapleton
I E & W Ry
Purcellville VA
___________________________________________________________
Ed King is right as usual. . . PRR used the "next" available number when
it acquired another locomotive. Some classes are in groups, like the
GG1s, generally starting with 4800 going up. The locomotives which they
acquired from leased lines were often grouped as well. (The mixed bag of
NYP&N engines were all renumbered by adding 65 to the existing NYP&N
numbers, i.e., #13 became #6513) Others were fit in where ever a unused
number existed.

If you think Steam is confusing, try and decipher their diesel
classification system whereby a F-3 is an EF-15a and a RS-3 an AF-15 or
Af-16 unless it has a steam generator or MU cables or ... You get the
picture. The "Standard Railroad of the World" was anything but, except
to themselves.

There is a very good web site, "Keystone Crossings", at
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/ with a more detailed explanation of this and
other PRR oddities. Jim McDaniel
___________________________________________________________
Jerry:
Your Pennsylvania Railrod reference is no doubt correct. In
re-reading my Pennsylvania Railrod reference, Eng 1794 was
the first E6s (my keyboard won't type what I tell it).

Dr. King:
Yes indeed, I'm an aficionado of the PRR's E44's and GG1's,
after all, it was a GG1 that brought me home from service to my
country. It just appears that by 1935, Santa Fee had its
act together. They'd scrapped their 1910-1911 debacles
and shelved thoughts of building a 2-8-10-2. Four years
later, the Pennsylvania Railrod embarked on rigid frames,
duplex drives, and asymmetrical wheel arrangements. The
PRR had some fine electrics, but the folks in Filthydelphia
also gave us a bastard engine numbering system, "Dick"
Lassiter, and the S1.

Harry Bundy

P.S. I had an opportunity to go into Labor on the PRR, but
turned it down.
_________________________________________________
 > Pennsy didn't use the dash in locomotive classes as did N&W. You speak of
 > the K4, G5 and M1a classes.
 >
 > But they never pulled out any dashes for the classifications . . .
 >
 > Uncle Ed

 > The PRR pulled out a lot of periods though, L.1.s, K.4.s, I.1.sa etc. And
 > thanks to Baldwin they got some dashes. I-1, H-9s, Q-1c etc. Of course 
this is
 > what they cast on the builder plates. The clerks in mechanical department
 > offices in Philly never could get it right.

- As did N&W? You must be talking about the Y-3 (a) and the Y-3b thanks to
Richmond. At least our shop people got it right when they placed the class 
plates
on the Richmond errors. I must concede that the clerks in the Roanoke 
mechanical
dept. were no better than their counterparts in Philadelphia when they were
handing out dashes on paper. I must defer to what was cast in brass or iron as
the authority when it comes to dash versus no dash. Also, our draftsman in the
mechanical office got it right - most of the time Y6b , J1 etc.

Jim Blackstock