Valley RR - Roanoke northward
NW Mailing List
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Tue Oct 2 21:57:09 EDT 2007
Jeff and Craig:
A better buy would be Professor Hildebrand's book
"Iron Horses in the Valley" which the Society is
selling I believe. The Crooked & Weedy, while
informative is not THAT good for $150. In addition I
think the B&O RR HS still has copies of their Staunton
convention guidebook for somewhere around $25.
I would love to know more about the remnants of what
was only partially completed south of Lexington and
still exists with EXACT locations as what is where and
so forth, since as already noted urban sprawl takes it
away piece by piece until we never knew it was there.
I have all the WW1 era Valuation maps for Roanoke
County for the Valley RR but they give few landmarks
unlike more modern maps. I have pretty well figured
out about where it would have gone in the Buchanan and
Troutville regions for those closely intersected with
the N&W.
Bob Cohen
--- nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org wrote:
> Send NW-Mailing-List mailing list submissions to
> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
> visit
>
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/nw-mailing-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> 'help' to
> nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nw-mailing-list-owner at nwhs.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of NW-Mailing-List digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: B&O Railroad south of Staunton, Va (NW
> Mailing List)
> 2. Re: Stone Arch South of Staunton (NW Mailing
> List)
> 3. 1901 - Stories of the flood of June 1901 that
> destroyed most
> of the Elkhorn Valley on the Pocahontas
> Division (NW Mailing List)
> 4. Re: Stone Arched Trestle (NW Mailing List)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 09:14:16 -0400
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: B&O Railroad south of Staunton, Va
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Message-ID:
> <8C9D30D44F19684-448-20C4 at mblk-d47.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii";
> format=flowed
>
>
> Most enlightening.
> As I recall from the map markup for the B&O RHS
> convention the line was
> west of 11 north of the shopping center and east of
> 11 south of the
> shopping center. A few cuts are still detectable
> between there and the
> Interstate.
>
> Jeff Cornelius
> Two Blocks from the N&W Valley Line
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:32 am
> Subject: RE: B&O Railroad south of Staunton, Va
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I know for a fact that there was a abandoned
> railroad line on the
> property now occupied by the Staunton Mall, through
> my research on the
> history of that mall for another historian project.
> However, I have not
> nailed down where exactly on the mall property this
> abandoned line was
> located.
>
> For those not familiar with the Staunton Mall it is
> located on US 11 on
> the south border of the city of Staunton and opened
> as a open-air
> shopping center in 1969. Its age is the reason for
> my research project.
>
> Lois J. Ponton
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:42:18 -0700
> > Subject: B&O Railroad south of Staunton, Va
> > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> > From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> >
> > A friend of mine sent me copies of the recent
> > inquiries of the remnants of the former Valley
> > Railroad of Virginia south of Staunton so I'll
> chime
> > in on some of what I know.
> >
> > With regards to the historic bridge near MP 219 on
> > I-81, just outside Staunton, this bridge was built
> in
> > the aborted first attempt by the B&O to get south
> of
> > Staunton in the 1873-1874 period and after
> spending
> > about $1.25 million, the B&O pulled the plug
> rather
> > abruptly and permanently effective November
> 25,1874.
> > Claiborne Mason's group of contractors were the
> ones I
> > believe at work in the section where the bridge
> over
> > Folly Mills Creek has been preserved with the date
> > "1874" emblazoned it, hopefully in perpetuity for
> all
> > to see and remind themselves of what once was in
> this
> > section of the Valley.
> >
> > Due to the B&O's stubbornness and inability to get
> > along amicably with ole Billy Mahone of the AM&O,
> (the
> > B&O wasn't alone on this issue as we all know our
> AM&O
> > history), even before they started committing
> funds to
> > the project of connecting up at Salem, Mahone was
> none
> > too hospitable toward any Northern corporation
> > especially one which he felt was going to be
> removing
> > Virginia's wealth to a northern carpetbagging
> > capitalistic monopoly. These were HIS thoughts,
> not my
> > opinions. In addition, the Financial Panic of 1873
> > made money really short, especially for railroad
> > mortgages as something like 1/3 of the railroads
> in
> > the south went into receivership in this period.
> >
> > The B&O was there and before the Shenandoah Valley
> > could really get its act together when Tom Scott
> and
> > the PRR pulled their money out in a stockholders
> fight
> > around 1874 when the Southern Railway Securities
> Co.
> > was broken up as a result as well as removing
> excess
> > funds from everything including their initial
> backing
> > of the Shenandoah Valley RR.
> >
> > HOWEVER, and here is something which very few have
> > been aware of until now, the SV leased the Valley
> RR
> > of Virginia between Harrisonburg & Staunton from
> July
> > 10,1876 to January 10,1877 when the B&O RR and
> City of
> > Baltimore split over some questioned payments or
> was
> > it non-payments regarding the VRR. These 2
> together
> > formed an impenetrable voting bloc on the
> remaining
> > Valley RR stockholders, and in this ONE instance,
> the
> > locals prevailed.
> >
> > The VRR, all 25 miles of it was managed/operated
> by
> > our good friend Milnes of early SV history and
> then
> > when the facade of the B&O for continuing the line
> > south of Staunton and onto Lexington showed what
> B&O's
> > motives truly were, they let the lease expire,
> having
> > paid all their bills as per the requirements of
> the
> > lease. That is why that the only photos of a
> Valley
> > engine with the name "Valley" on it apparently
> > occurred during this one brief period. Now, you
> ask,
> > where did Milnes get his equipment? He leased it
> from
> > the Western Maryland RR. I can't tell you what
> engine
> > # it was from the WM but I can tell you that when
> the
> > engine first appeared at Harrisonburg in early
> July
> > 1876, a youngster replied something along the
> likes to
> > a chum "See, didn't I tell you Mr. Milnes was
> > important? He has an engine with his name on it;
> W.M.
> > RR." True story.
> >
> > There is more to this 6-month tale but the long
> and
> > the short of it was that once the SV concluded
> that
> > the B&O was NOT interested in either building it
> > themselves or permitting his group to do so, he
> wisely
> > pulled out. Then 2 years later, under the exact
> same
> > financial constraints as the B&O had, the SV built
> the
> > line which we all know and love today, did it in 3
> > years and while they were over-extended
> financially in
> > it which caused the receivership, it was the right
> > move at the right time.
> >
> > Had the B&O been wiser and more aggressive, they
> could
> > have been there first and we would have no line
> which
> > we know today.
> >
> > The B&O's Valley RR picked up the scaps and pieces
> in
> > the Summer of 1881 as the Richmond & Allegheny
> built
> > into Lexington, but even then it took them 2 years
> to
> > start anew on the line which was about 25-50%
> > completed 7 years earlier. Limping, the B&O made
> it to
> > Lexington and that was as far as they would ever
> get.
> >
> > Nearly 60 years later, the B&O wanted OUT of the
> > valley and it was apparently no secret. The
> Chesapeake
> > Western stepped up to the plate and agreed to
> purchase
> > the 62 miles of completed line plus the 51.23 of
> never
> > completed right-of-way to Salem on one condition;
> that
> > the B&O must have prior approval of abandonment of
> the
> > line south of Staunton before they would take
> title to
> > the 25-miles which was worth keeping. That
> abandonment
> > was approved for November 1,1942 and the sale was
> > approved effective midnight, December
> 31,1942/January
> > 1,1943.
> >
> > I have been told that it took Chesapeake Western
> until
> > July or August, 1943 to complete the scrapping
> > operations south of Staunton which means that the
> > Folly Mills Bridge last felt the breath of the
> iron
> > horse perhaps in July as that is only 5 or 6 miles
> > south of Staunton.
> >
> > Today, that is the most visible remnant of this
> failed
> > effort. Much of I-81 between there and Salem used
> the
> > old B&O right-of-way but as has already been noted
> on
> > these pages, pieces of the old stonework are still
> > visible here and there if one knows where to look.
> >
> > I look forward to further discussions regrading
> this
> > whole topic, especially, the SV's operations of
> the
> > Valley RR for 6 months.
> >
> > Bob Cohen
> > ORL96782 at yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________
> ___________
> > Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight?
> Preview the hottest
> shows on Yahoo! TV.
> > http://tv.yahoo.com/
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> > To change your subscription go to
> >
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>
>
>
> Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger
> Get it now! =
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
> Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited
> storage and
> industry-leading spam and email virus protection.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:34:53 -0400
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Stone Arch South of Staunton
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <008601c804f9$03caa880$6400a8c0 at Dad>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It's still possible to follow the cuts and fills of
> this line that never was along Peters Creek Road in
> Roanoke, but it's getting harder as more development
> occurs in the area.
>
> Sam Putney
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: NW Mailing List
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 9:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Stone Arch South of Staunton
>
>
> The stone arch you have observed is the marvelous
> remnant of the B&O's Valley Railroad that once
> extended from Harrisonburg to Lexington. It was
> supposed to go to Salem but the Shenandoah Valley
> Railroad beat them to the punch . The line from
> Staunton to Lexington was abandoned in the early
> 40's when the Chesapeake Western in Harrisonburg
> bought the Valley Railroad. They paid for their
> purchase with the sale of the scrap steel between
> Staunton and Lexington. I remember C. G. Price once
> telling me (or it is in his book about the CW) that
> the CW's purchase of the Valley RR saved the scrap
> steel from going to Japan where it would have been
> turned into bombs sent back on our troops in WWII.
>
> You can see the right of way paralleling I81
> between the arch bridge in question and Fairfield.
> It always gives me goose bumps seeing that right of
> way, trying to imagine a train traversing the
> landscape. There are quite a few arches, culverts,
> piers and excavations in the landscape south of
> Lexington as well. The work was started but never
> completed. John Hildebrand has written a marvelous
> history of both the Valley RR and the Shenandoah
> Valley RR titled Iron Horses in the Valley. I don't
> see it listed in the Commissary so I don't know if
> it is still available. It is worth looking for if
> you are interested in the subject and will direct
> you with maps to more locations along the Valley RR.
>
> David Ray
>
> nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org wrote:
> Send NW-Mailing-List mailing list submissions to
> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
> Web, visit
>
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/nw-mailing-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or
> body 'help' to
> nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nw-mailing-list-owner at nwhs.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so
> it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of NW-Mailing-List digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Stone Arched Trestle (NW Mailing List)
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 23:26:44 -0400
> Subject: Stone Arched Trestle
>
>
> It is most likely old and boring news to you
> longtime railfans but when traveling south from
> Staunton, VA on Interstate-81 I've noticed what
> appears to be an old (possibly narrow gauge) stone
> arched trestle on the west side of I-81S, just a
> mile or so south of the I-64/I-81 interchange.
> Letting my imagination run wild I can also see what
> might be old roadbed segments and possibly other
> railroad-related structures, such as heavy stone
> culverts and trackside stone foundations, in the
> hillsides and farm fields west of the highway.
>
> Could these really be old railroad remains?
> I've read about a Shenandoah Valley Railroad line(
> *) that extended from Staunton south and then west
> into West Virginia. I believe it may have been
> abandoned when more useful connections were made
> from Stauntonsouth toward Roanoke via routes through
> Stuarts Draft.
> (*) I think there may have been several early
> railroads that either actually had that name or were
> generally know by that name.
>
> Can anyone give me a history lesson about the
> trestle and the railroad it belonged to? Is there a
> good reference source for studying the history of
> these early and now abandoned lines? Are there any
> other remains and structures that might still be
> visible?
>
> Thanks, Bob Brown
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
>
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
>
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
>
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/attachments/20071002/ea9f6c77/attachment.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 10:01:13 -0400
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: 1901 - Stories of the flood of June 1901
> that destroyed most
> of the Elkhorn Valley on the Pocahontas Division
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID:
> <005801c804fc$b1b8b100$6401a8c0 at DHKYT081>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
> charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Train related excerpts from newspaper reports of the
> Great flood of June 22,
> 1901
>
> > Bluefield Daily Telegraph - June 23, 1901
> >
> > DEATH AND DESTRUCTION IN THE PATH OF THE STORM
> >
> ...The railroad, as usual, is the worst sufferer.
> There were several bad
> washouts between here and and Graham, several on the
> Clinch Valley
> Division, and a great many on the Pocahontas.
> Between Coopers and
> Bramwell the bridges are damaged.
>
> Passenger train No. 15, came as far as Bluefield,
> but owing to the trouble
> on the Clinch Valley was anulled here. No. 3 last
> night was also anulled
> after reaching Bluefield.
>
> Owing to the fact that both telegraph and telephone
> wires are down, it is
> impossible to give any reliable estimate of the
> damage and loss of life
> throughout the coal field. Beyond Coaldale the
> telegraph wires are all
> down, and even the officials of the road are
> ignorant of the roadbed.
> There is no point in the field in the field, except
> Bramwell, which can be
> reached by telephone, and a number of 'phones in the
> city have been
> burned out. At Bramwell no damage has been done to
> private property,
> but the iron bridge of the Norfolk and Western has
> been completely
> washed away.
>
> ...The railroad bridges at North Fork, Johnson and
> Duhring are gone,
> and probably half a dozen other bridges are washed
> out on the line.
> The track between Ennis and Vivian is so badly
> undermined that it is
> liable to give way at any time. The upper end of
> the Crozer Company's
> power house, near Ennis, has been washed away [and
> portions] of the
> tipple machinery is a total loss. The dynamos, too,
> are greatly damaged.
>
> ...at Vivian the section house was swept away and a
> little child of the
> section master was drowned.
>
> Practically every delivery track between Ennis and
> Vivian has been
> destroyed, and nearly all of the new Crane Creek
> extension has been washed
> away. At Vivian a flat car loaded with iron was
> swept from the track by the
> raging waters.
>
> ...From present indications, traffic on the
> Pocahontas Division will be
> blocked
> probably a full week. Never in the history of the
> railroad have such
> conditions
> obtained.
>
> Passenger train No. 11, which left this city at 6:30
> yesterday morning, got
> no
> further than Elkhorn. In front of the ill-fated
> train the track is washed
> away, and
> against the rear coach a house [and] a great pile of
> lumber has been lodged
> by
> the flood.
>
> Passenger train No. 4, from Columbus, due here at
> 9:30 a.m., is at Vivian,
> unable to proceed either way. Passengers from this
> train were rescued by
> means of ropes stretched from the coaches to the
> coke ovens, the ground
> between the track and the ovens being under probably
> ten feet of water.
>
> The Clinch Valley division, too, is blocked.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Alex Schust
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:11:24 -0400
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Stone Arched Trestle
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Message-ID:
>
<8C9D33F29003AD2-600-232B at WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii";
> format=flowed
>
> It was indeed a good investment. I bought mine
> retail at the Food Lion
> in Harrisonburg in '95 or so.
>
>
> Jeff Cornelius
> Two Blocks from the N&W Valley Line
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: 'NW Mailing List' <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 7:38 am
> Subject: RE: Stone Arched Trestle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I found a couple copies of "The Crooked and
> Weedy......" on-line. Great
> investment if you bought it new - the ones available
> are $150.00.
>
>
> Craig Close
> Balimer, Merlan
> OK: Far West Catonsville
> OR: Greater Oella
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
> [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf
> Of NW Mailing List
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 3:45 PM
> To: NW Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Stone Arched Trestle
>
> Built by the Baltimore and Ohio before their late
> 19th century
> bankruptcy.
> I was told, that if you can find the book
> "Chesapeake and Western" you
> will
> find
> the history of the B&O extension south of
> Harrisonburg,VA.
>
> H.B.Lyon
> Alexandria, VA
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
> Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited
> storage and
> industry-leading spam and email virus protection.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
> End of NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 22, Issue 6
> **********************************************
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html
More information about the NW-Mailing-List
mailing list