[Woodcarver] Craftsman VS Artisan

Sat Jun 12 17:14:00 EDT 2004

Hi Steve and Daniel,

Yes, the term Apprentice, Journeyman, and Master; as Steve pointed out;
applies to many technical-vocational skill.  Plumbing is also an area
that denotes skill levels with these positions.  

Closer to our area of the arts is the Stone Carver's craft here in the
States. When the National Cathedral was to be built the architects had a
great deal of trouble finding Master Stone Carvers to do the fine marble
and granite sculptures. Much as Bill pointed out in his posting the
'jealous protection of craft secrets' almost caused the extinction of
this art form (stone carving) in our country. At that time there were 20
or less qualified carvers in the US with that degree.  Now the story
goes that the National Cathedral hired ALL of them to begin the work.
Because of the massive undertaking involved in this project there was a
resurgence of the craft as these Master's had to hire and train new
apprentices to accomplish the massive amount of work needed. I don't
remember exactly how long the Cathedral took to complete but there were
tails that some of the apprentice carvers spent their entire lifes work
on this endeavor.

For some of the arts, crafts, and vocations the term Certified can be
found as an equivalent to Master's standing.  I don't know about you but
I don't want to take my Liberty Jeep to an apprentice auto mechanic ...
I want the Certified Mechanic to do the work.  

Certification, depending on the field usually requires a specified time
period of work under a Certified person of the same field with periodic
testing through the State or Craft/Vocation National Association.
Example, I am a Certified National Ceramics Teacher. Now, GRIN!, that
and 50 cents won't buy you coffee in the wood carving field ... But ...
I am certified through the national ceramics organization, the State of
Maryland, and three product manufactures.  So for me to have reached
that standing involved years of classes, years of testing, and years of
walking the tables along side other teachers. All in all it took between
10 to 12 years to finally be qualified as a Certified Teacher.  In the
end it earned me the privilege to be able to teach other teachers
through seminars about the craft. 

As for Master Wood Carvers, I am not sure that they are in anyway
restricted to furniture making.  I seem to remember in my readings that
in a furniture studio there were Master's in several different field all
working on individual parts or portions of a finished piece.  One might
be creating the carcass or frame of the chest of drawers while another
was cutting the finishing boards while the Carver just worked on the
carved area.  It is not necessarily true that the carver needed to know
how to cut rabbits or dove tails ... He needed to know classic highboy
shells or baroque vines and leaves. Often he was just one of many who
created the final piece of furniture.

Susan

Carving Patterns Online
Designs Online Since 1997!
Classic Carving Patterns By L.S.Irish
http://www.CarvingPatterns.com
http://www.WoodCarvingPatterns.com

-----Original Message-----
From: woodcarver-bounces at six.pairlist.net
[mailto:woodcarver-bounces at six.pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Steven Klein
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 4:12 PM
To: [Woodcarver]
Subject: Re: [Woodcarver] Craftsman VS Artisan

To make a DONATION to the Mailing List using PayPal OR regular mail,
click this link: http://wwwoodcarver.com/WWWList/WWWList.html

Hi Dan,
    I am a Master Electrician in Wisconsin.  I went through a 4 year
apprenticeship, then took more classes and after 6 years, I took the
State
Masters Test.  I can take out an Electrical License in any community in
Wisconsin.
    After my apprenticeship,  I was a Journeyman Electrician

Steve Klein
President
Klein Electric Co., Inc.

 ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel Heine" <Daniel.Heine at comcast.net>
To: "Byron Kinnaman" <abkinnaman at earthlink.net>; "[Woodcarver]"
<woodcarver at six.pairlist.net>
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 6:35 PM
Subject: [Woodcarver] Craftsman VS Artisan

> To make a DONATION to the Mailing List using PayPal OR regular mail,
click
this link: http://wwwoodcarver.com/WWWList/WWWList.html
>
> In response, I see very little difference between the terms. A master
> craftsman in my mind is a woodworker who produces furniture of the
highest
> quality and is in itself an art form. I believe the same is true for
> carvers. I have never heard the term "Master Craftsman: referring to a
> carpenter or electrician, only for persons who have elevated the
quality
of
> their skill to a level that is in itself art, and far and above that
of
the
> mainstream craftsman.
>
> Looking forward to Evart,
> Daniel Heine
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Byron Kinnaman" <abkinnaman at earthlink.net>
> To: "[Woodcarver]" <woodcarver at six.pairlist.net>
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 5:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Woodcarver] Not a "Master Carver?"
>
>
> > To make a DONATION to the Mailing List using PayPal OR regular mail,
click
> this link: http://wwwoodcarver.com/WWWList/WWWList.html
> >
> > Joe, Bill and others,
> >
> > I have to disagree with this type of a program. It appears to me
that
this
> would move carving as an art form into the world crafts.  "Master
Carver"
=
> "Master Carving Craftsman" . I prefer to think of carver as artisians
rather
> than craftsman.
> >
> > Just my humble opinion.
> >
> > Byron
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe Dillett <jdillett at thecarvingshop.com>
> > Sent: Jun 11, 2004 2:51 PM
> > To: "[Woodcarver]" <woodcarver at six.pairlist.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Woodcarver] Not a "Master Carver?"
> >
> > To make a DONATION to the Mailing List using PayPal OR regular mail,
click
> this link: http://wwwoodcarver.com/WWWList/WWWList.html
> >
> > Hi Bill,
> >
> > I understand what you are saying. That's why I avoided using the
words
> > Master Carver in my post.
> >
> > I have strong feelings that an approved apprenticeship program in
needed.
> > The government should approve this type of program so it qualifies
for
> > grants, retraining and low-interest student loan status.
> >
> > I've had a lot of call for organizing an apprenticeship program.
Finally
I
> > started a non-accredited program this last January. I have six
students
> that
> > are committed to a four-year program. I told them a certificate
wouldn't
> > mean very much because I am not an accredited program. There ages
range
> from
> > 13 to about 50. I told them that the only difference between my
> > apprenticeship program and the formal apprenticeship programs of
Europe,
> is
> > that I don't know what the hell I'm doing.
> >
> > They are progressing fine. After about 6-months they are about
halfway
> along
> > to being called an Apprentice 1 level carver.
> >
> > To achieve an Apprentice 1 level they began with a simple project
that
> they
> > choose. They learn safety precautions. They must be able to take a
knife
> and
> > gouge and V-tool from a wide blunt edge and get them razor sharp.
All
have
> > certified through the sharpening. They are all working on carving
> moldings.
> > Each molding teaches them right and left hand carving, grain
structure
and
> > direction of cut. The first molding is a chase carving with a V-tool
or
> > veiner (spoon carved design). The next molding is a row of small
raised
> > buttons surrounded in a conceived circle. The third molding is a
rope
> > design. Two are still working on the rope design and the rest have
> certified
> > through this point. Egg and dart is the next molding. A shell in the
next
> > molding. The last molding will be their design. After completing all
the
> > moldings they must apply a finish. Then they must certify to knowing
how
> to
> > calculate mathematical ratios and proportions and certify to
enlarging
or
> > reducing a picture to create a pattern per my requirements. They
must
> > certify to knowing the common types of wood they will be carving and
how
> to
> > choose the direction of grain to orientate a face or how to choose
the
> best
> > and finest grain direction to orientate the carving. They must
develop a
> > respect for wood and the source it comes from through good
conservation
> > practices inside and outside the shop. Than they must complete a
project.
> > That will get them to Apprentice 1 level.
> >
> > Apprentice 2 level will have exercises that refine their chisel
> techniques,
> > uses power to improve productivity and studies good design
techniques
and
> > human and animal proportions. They must know how to construct a
block
for
> > carving and good gluing practices by calculating how to even out
clamping
> > pressure. There will be much time devoted to drawing which will be
taught
> > from the book, Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain, by Betty
Edwards.
> > They will be learning woodburning techniques and develop a wide
vocabulary
> > of texturing techniques by using chisels. They must develop the
ability
to
> > make clean cuts in remote areas so to eliminate 'hamburger'.
> >
> > To get certified to Journeyman they must have logged about 1000
hours of
> > carving time, demonstrate originality and uniqueness of design.
Capable
of
> > designing and drawing their own patterns from several sources.
Produce a
> > carving from real life, both in the round and in relief. Does not
need
> > instruction to design, carve and finish a carving. Understand the
material
> > of wood and how it is effected by moisture changes, UV exposure,
various
> > drying techniques, strength and weatherability. Understand, know
when to
> use
> > different finishes and how to apply those different finishes. Able
to
make
> > several carvings of the same subject, like an oak leaf, and express
> > different feelings, such as serenity, anxiety, sadness, and joy .
> Knowledge
> > of all laws and regulations that apply to the carving business, such
as
> > sales and income tax, EPA regulations, MSDS sheets, different
business
> > structures such as s-corporation or sole-proprietorship, accounting
> > practices as applied to running a carving business. Demonstrate a
> > willingness to share their knowledge by teaching woodcarving
classes.
> >
> > To achieve the Master Carver level they must have knowledge of good
> business
> > practices, know how to quote jobs, write work orders/contracts,
create
> > invoices and estimate completion times accurately. Demonstrate good
> > marketing skills. Demonstrated a desire to promote woodcarving and
teaches
> > on a regular basis. They must demonstrate a willingness to give back
to
> > their community by getting involved in community activities.
> >
> > Most of these are concepts at this point that will be refined as I
> progress
> > through the program. At this point I am only keeping a few classes
ahead
> of
> > them with a lesson plan. I am willing to take all suggestions anyone
has
> to
> > offer. These students know they are my guinea pigs in this wonderful
> > experiment. At this point they are all developing wonderful tool
control
> and
> > grain knowledge. I couldn't be happier with their progress. I was
> > encouraging the 13-year old boy to continue practicing his
sharpening
> skills
> > before he forgets them. I pointed out that there are not many
13-year
olds
> > that can put a razor edge on a V-tool and handle a chisel the way he
can.
> >
> > Bill, I talked to you some time back as becoming a member of a
> certification
> > board. My concept of this certification board is certain members
like
you,
> > who have achieved a high level of carving skill, network with the
student
> > over the Internet to have his work and skill examined by each board
> member,
> > one at a time. The student must pay for your testing time. You in
turn
> > either certify them to the next level or not. Your other
responsibility
> > would be to give me feedback as to what changes I would need to make
in
my
> > curriculum.
> >
> >
> > Joe Dillett
> > The Carving Shop
> > 645 E. LaSalle St. Suite 3
> > Somonauk, IL. 60552
> > (815) 498-9290 phone
> > (815) 498-9249 fax
> > http://www.thecarvingshop.com
> > jdillett at thecarvingshop.com
> > http://www.carvingmagazine.com Carving Magazine web site and Readers
Forum
> > **************************************************
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Bill Judt" <bjudt at sasktel.net>
> > To: "[Woodcarver]" <woodcarver at six.pairlist.net>
> > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 1:46 PM
> > Subject: [Woodcarver] Not a "Master Carver?"
> >
> >
> > > To make a DONATION to the Mailing List using PayPal OR regular
mail,
> click
> > this link: http://wwwoodcarver.com/WWWList/WWWList.html
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > ----
> >
> >
> > Ray and Joe:
> >
> > Here in North America, we must be careful to make a clear
distinction
> > between the European trade designation "Master Carver" and the more
> > relaxed way we use the term.
> > Unless one is trained as a master carver according to an accredited
> > standard, he/she is NOT a master carver. One might be a GOOD carver,
> > even and excellent carver... gifted, talented, professional, etc...
but
> > not a MASTER CARVER, unless he/she has earned that title. I can
> > understand European carvers looking at the way some carvers rate
> > themselves or are rated by others and questioning their standards. I
> > don't let this type of thing bother me, though. I know how good my
work
> > is. It is somewhere between the absolutely WORST carving on earth
and
> > the absolutely BEST.<grinning widely>
> >
> > This raises the question "What shall we call those North American
> > carvers who have show excellence in their craft/art... who stand
above
> > the crowd? And what is the standard by which we measure their
> > abilities?" Your comments and suggestions are welcome.
> >
> > This is a question I've long pondered. Please note that I do NOT
> > consider myself a "Master Carver".
> >
> > Bill
> > List Owner
> >
> > W.F. Judt,
> > 46 Harvard Cres,
> > Saskatoon, Saskatchewan,
> > S7H3R1
> > PH: 306-373-6649
> > Email: bjudt at sasktel.net
> > Website: http://www.wwwoodcarver.com
> >
> > On Jun 11, 2004, at 8:49 AM, RAY MIGHELLS wrote:
> >
> > > To make a DONATION to the Mailing List using PayPal OR regular
mail,
> > > click this link: http://wwwoodcarver.com/WWWList/WWWList.html
> > >
> > > Hi Joe; sounds good to me. I do know that some classicaly trained
> > > carvers kind of look down their nose at excellent carvings done by
> > > carvers "not trained". I agree with you that you do whatever is
> > > necessary to achieve the dimension and projection you want.
Carving
> > > is still evolving; you may need to go to college to get a degree,
> > > but you don't need to go to college to get an education. (
> > > subscribing to all the carving magazines is comparable to taking a
> > > correspondence course, although there are some things you can not
> > > learn from a book)Regards Ray Mighells 6760 Rt 417 Killbuck NY 716
> > > 945 0098 Please view my work at:
> > > http://www.picturetrail.com/razaxnstuff
> > > <Fiesta.jpg>_______________________________________________
> > > Woodcarver mailing list
> > > Woodcarver at six.pairlist.net
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/woodcarver
> >
> >
>
>
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> --
> > ----
> >
> >
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