[Woodcarver] Web Hosting-browsers (Chat)

[Linehan718 at aol.com]

In a message dated 8/4/2009 1:52:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
barnhardts at carolina.rr.com writes:

As indicated on  w3schools site, these figures are not necessarily 100%  
correct 

>From their site   

“These facts  indicate that the browser figures above are not 100% 
realistic. Other web  sites have statistics showing that Internet Explorer is used 
by at least 80%  of the users.” 
Why should I as a IE user even consider  changing to another browser such 
as Firefox?  I checked their site and  the only comparison I saw is of their 
version 3 vs 3.5.  There is no  comparison of their product and IE.  Don’t 
know about you folks, but it  usually takes a little more than a verbal 
statement without corroborating  facts to induce me to make a significant change 
in something like this.   I’m not trying to hammer you Firefox folks here so 
don’t even start to think  that, but I’ve heard the alternate browser talk 
for years, but have “never”  seen anything to give me even a bit of a 
reason to change.  I’m open to  hearing any good reasons you may have.   
Barney


Hi Barney, I personally believe that the figures of IE users are much  
higher to almost 90% of all people using pcs. I am guilty of using ie just like  
most everyone else.  Why?  because it comes standard on most systems  and I 
am just too lazy to look further into it or do anything about  it.      
However, the case against MS ie is quite easy  to make from my point of view. 
You want reasons and facts?  In the  early days of MS they were hit with many 
anti trust lawsuits, they were creating  a monopoly. They had exclusive 
deals with all of the major pc manufacturers to  only use their products, 
including their operating systems, preloading the  ie browser, and  MS word and 
office products.  There have been  congressional hearings and many lawsuits 
in the late 80s and  90s  reguarding Microsofts business practices which were 
requiring manufacturers to  bundle all microsofts major software together, 
there were pay offs and kick  backs and racketeering practices in play. But 
as MS(and Bill  Gates) got richer and richer, it became harder and harder to 
fight  them. Smaller developers were crushed and pushed out of the 
industry.   Although it took over 20 years, the US gov't finally got involved.  Lots 
of  damage was done in the preceding 20 years leading to MSs current 
monopoly on OSs  and browers.
 
United States v. Microsoft was a set of  consolidated civil actions filed 
against _Microsoft  Corporation_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corporation)  on May 18, 1998 by the _United States Department of Justice_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice)  (DOJ) and 20  
U.S. states. _Joel I.  Klein_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Klein)  
was the lead prosecutor. The plaintiffs alleged  that Microsoft abused 
_monopoly_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly)  power on Intel-based personal 
computers  in its handling of _operating  system_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system)  sales and _web  browser_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_browser)  sales. The issue central to the case was whether  Microsoft 
was allowed to bundle its flagship _Internet  Explorer_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer)  (IE) web browser software with its _Microsoft  
Windows_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows)  operating system. 
Bundling them together is  alleged to have been responsible for Microsoft's 
victory in the _browser wars_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_wars)  
as every Windows user had a copy of  Internet Explorer. It was further 
alleged that this unfairly restricted the  market for competing web browsers 
(such as _Netscape  Navigator_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Navigator) 
 or _Opera_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(web_browser)) ) that were 
slow to download over a modem or  had to be purchased at a store. Underlying 
these disputes were questions over  whether Microsoft altered or 
manipulated its _application programming interfaces_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_programming_interface)  (APIs) to  favor Internet Explorer over 
third party web browsers, Microsoft's conduct in  forming restrictive licensing 
agreements with _original equipment manufacturer_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_equipment_manufacturer)  (OEMs), and  Microsoft's intent in 
its course of conduct. 
Microsoft stated that the merging of Microsoft Windows and  Internet 
Explorer was the result of _innovation_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation)  
and _competition_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition) , that the two 
were now the same  product and were inextricably linked together and that 
consumers were now  getting all the benefits of IE for free. Those who 
opposed Microsoft's position  countered that the browser was still a distinct and 
separate product which did  not need to be tied to the operating system, 
since a separate version of  Internet Explorer was available for _Mac OS_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS) . They also asserted that IE was not really 
free because its development  and marketing costs may have kept the price 
of Windows higher than it might  otherwise have been. 
The trial started on May 18, 1998 with the U.S. Justice  Department and the 
Attorneys General of twenty U.S. states suing Microsoft for  illegally 
thwarting competition in order to protect and extend its software  monopoly. 
Later, in October the US Justice Department also sued Microsoft for  violating 
a 1994 consent decree by forcing computer makers to include its  Internet 
browser as a part of the installation of Windows software. During the  
antitrust case it was revealed that Microsoft had threatened PC manufacturers  with 
revoking their license to distribute Windows if they removed the Internet  
Explorer icon from the initial desktop,[_citation  needed_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed) ] something that Netscape had 
requested of its  licensees.[_citation  needed_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed) ] 
Microsoft Chairman _Bill  Gates_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates)  
was called "evasive and nonresponsive" by a source  present at a session in 
which Gates was questioned on his deposition._[2]_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft#cite_note-1)   He argued over the 
definitions of words such as "compete", "concerned", "ask",  and "we"._[3]_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft#cite_note-2)   BusinessWeek 
reported, "Early rounds of his deposition show him offering  obfuscatory 
answers and saying 'I don't recall' so many times that even the  presiding 
judge had to chuckle. Worse, many of the technology chief's denials  and pleas 
of ignorance have been directly refuted by prosecutors with snippets  of 
E-mail Gates both sent and received."_[4]_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft#cite_note-3)  _Intel_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel)  Vice-President _Steven  McGeady_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_McGeady) , called as a witness, quoted _Paul Maritz_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Maritz) , a senior Microsoft vice president as  having stated an 
intention to "extinguish" and "smother" rival _Netscape Communications 
Corporation_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Communications_Corporation)  
and to "cut  off Netscape's air supply" by giving away a clone of Netscape's 
flagship product  for free. The Microsoft executive denied the allegations 
In short MS lost the anti trust case. and they were forced to have a  
government appointed watchdog breathe down their neck for the next 5  years.  
When that time-limit expired, MS went back to business as  usual. Now to put 
this in laymans terms, if the US gov't decided to ban all  auto imports and 
banned all foreign parts being used in US cars and further made  it so that 
foreign parts would not work properly with american cars in  order to keep all 
the money spent on cars going into only US companies, everyone  would be 
driving fords and chevys.  Patriotism and free markets  concerns aside, that 
would keep the US consumer from having access to  cheaper and perhaps in some 
cases, superior autos and auto components.   Just because everyone was 
driving US made cars, americans would not really care  what else was being 
manufactured in the rest of the world and the american  companies would become 
quite rich.  
So now we compare this to what happened with internet browsers.   All you 
need to do is go and talk to some of the non MS programmers and computer  
code writers, they fall into two main categories, those that outright hate what 
 MS did to competing companies on principal and those who have personally  
been screwed because of MSs attempts to monopolize the pc industry.  There  
are technically much better browsers out there, netscape, opera, mozilla,  
firefox, just to name a few.  Superior products which are better written  and 
not subjected to the hacking which is aimed at the more pervasive  IE 
browser. Microsoft is so intent at keeping its OS and browser  monopoly going, 
that as soon as sales start to fall off, they rush to put out  new versions of 
their OS and browser before they even perfect the  product. Microsoft has 
made Mr. Gates one of the richest men in the world  but there is still 
widespread corruption at work in the pc world due to  Microsofts domination.  It 
has always been alleged that microsoft  has designed its operating systems in 
such a way that other browsers will  not play nicely with MS systems.  Unix 
has always been considered a far  more superior Operating System than 
windows by those with any technical  knowledge but walk into any major 
electronics store and see how many systems are  preloaded with Unix, NONE!!!  The only 
competition is Mac(apple).  You  go into a store, you buy a pc, you learn 
how to use windows and IE, every pc you  come in contact with uses windows 
and IE, you get comfortable with it.  In  order to use the superior unix, you 
need to purchase that separately for  hundreds of dollars more, load it into 
your pc, relearn how to use your pc. Then  when you go to buy fancy 
software and pc programs(which have under the table  proprietary deals with MS), 
you find that most are only compatable with  Microsoft operating systems and 
eventually you get fed up and go back to using  MS.  That's why I use windows 
and IE and why you use windows and IE,  but don't kid yourself, you are 
only using it cause it was forced down your  throat by the MS computer 
monopoly, not because its a better product. 
Maura
_www.Carvinginnyc.com_ (http://www.carvinginnyc.com/) 
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